Carroll Interview

[Ci Celli Ddu]

While googling I came across this interesting interview with Peter J. Carroll:

Peter J. Carroll Interview (http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/ess_petecint.html)

[m1thr0s]

god I hope I never get that kind of interviewer...I think I would be compelled to strangle the twerp with his own gutstrings...

might make a pretty good interview come to think of it...

***flashes on a scene from bladerunner***

note: philhine.org.uk is an exemplary website though...just from a web designer's point of view...remarkably intelligent for that kind of site...speaks well of its owner.

m1thr0s

[Ci Celli Ddu]

hehe I'm just guessing that Phil Hine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Hine) is the interviewer, seeing as it's on his Website. Interesting that he hasn't done anything on his site since 2005. Ive only got one of Hine's books, the Pseudonomicon, I can't remember much about it, other than it works with the Cthulhu mythos, and I only read the thing a couple of months back (Note To Self: must give it another look)!
I'm not sure which new book Carroll refers to in the interview as there's no date. I haven't yet got hold of or read a copy of his third book PsyberMagick (1995), and I know he's currently writing a fourth book.


Afternote: I think the writings on the Cthulhu mythos on philhine.org.uk pretty much cover what's in the Pseudonomicon

[m1thr0s]

hehe I'm just guessing that Phil Hine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Hine) is the interviewer, seeing as it's on his Website.ahhh...could be...well, I'll let him live then, but he still gets strangled for coming on like a new-agey twitter...

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

I've always wondered why Joel is a drinking buddy of phil, but a mortal enemy of Pete???

[m1thr0s]

maybe that was what I was picking up in the subliminals...I could definitely feel an undercurrent of a conflict of egos going on...

biased interviewers are not always the best...it is still a good article though.

m1thr0s

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I've always wondered why Joel is a drinking buddy of phil, but a mortal enemy of Pete???


Who's Joel?

[fr.novumorganum]

http://www.biroco.com/

the man

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Well, still not really any wiser on that count. Some guy who paints stuff and lives in London.
Anyway, here's a wholly different style of interview, this time with Phil Hine as the interviewee (is that a word?):

Phil Hine Interview (http://dreamflesh.com/interviews/philhine/)

PS It's a r-e-a-l-l-y--l-o-n-g--l-o-n-g--l-o-n-g--interview, mostly very interesting. Interesting? Sorry, I mean tedious.

[fr.novumorganum]

http://www.biroco.com/kaos/index.html

joel is best known for publishing KAOS and other occult material. he was one of the first practiciners of ritual kaos, which he claims to have been taught by a demon.

some hold him in high regard, as the initiator of the 156 current through his KAOS-BABYLON sex working. The major discovery of this working was that the role of the beast and the role of babylon are both offices/degrees/roles which can be occupied by any strong enough operator. This is a major theoretical advancement in sex/babylon/enochian workings, as the thelmic orthodoxy holds that only the role of the scarlet woman can change.

http://www.biroco.com/yijing/index.htm

also one of t he leading western scholars of the yijingdao etc

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I've always wondered why Joel is a drinking buddy of phil, but a mortal enemy of Pete???

Well, I can imagine having a fairly down-to-earth occult natter with Joel and Phil over a pint, perhaps even with a 'Camberwell carrot'* thrown in, judging from the links you supplied and the interview with Phil. But could you imagine having a friendly chat with Pete? Meeting him in a pub? Hmmm

* Is there anyone who hasn't seen Withnail & I? :D

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I've always wondered why Joel is a drinking buddy of phil, but a mortal enemy of Pete???

Maybe this is a clue?

Phil: Yeah… I mean on the internet I’ve seen people talking about ‘Carrollian’ Chaos Magic, so Pete Carroll’s become a label for his own brand of Chaos Magic, which I’m sure he would not like. Or maybe he would like it, I don’t know… He himself talked about ‘techno-rational’ Chaos Magicians versus ‘artistic-romantic’ Chaos Magicians. He said that where he was concerned that the ‘techno-rationalistic’ Chaos Magicians were the people that he was going forward with, and the anarcho-romantics would be all dropping like flies. I suppose I’m an anarcho-romantic Chaos Magician, rather than a rational, technocratic one. I’m interested in models, and explaining things. But I see the explanations and models as models, and I’m not interested in the ‘equations of magic’, whatsoever. It’s nice to play about with explanations, but when it comes down to it, it’s just weird stuff that happens to us. And I prefer not to explain it. But I’d quite like it to keep on happening, thankyou.

[Naomi]

Well I hate him! That was a terrible interview! I wanted to start smacking people!

edit: ok maybe hate is a strong word.

[m1thr0s]

rofl...me too Naomi...something about that whole stick-up-its-butt intellectualistic holier-than-thouism kinda makes me want to k-i-l-l-t-h-e-m-a-l-l!!!

And I'm a big fan of mind...I just think it needs to be vaguely connected to its own ass as well...

m1thr0s

[Kain]

And I'm a big fan of mind...I just think it needs to be vaguely connected to its own ass as well...I think this sums up my own view as well concerning the matter. As for Carroll, I've done my share of research on his work as Liber Null was pretty much the first occult book I had ever read, and I in fact always liked him more than Hine. I was basically always annoyed by Hine's approach to "not explain" and to allow things to conveniently (and some might say, out of lack of initiative for more serious research) remain *mysterious* in all instances. I'm quite a fan of the Mystery principle, but I think it needs to be pursued in a very specific fashion in order to prevent it all from turning to mere superstition.

Carroll's more technical approach held my interest for more time, but I think this element of not-wired mind and form still remained, in my view also being a serious limiter of the model's power as what was on the mind side could not be sufficiently conveyed to the other side without a serious lessening of potency.

Kain

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I think this sums up my own view as well concerning the matter. As for Carroll, I've done my share of research on his work as Liber Null was pretty much the first occult book I had ever read, and I in fact always liked him more than Hine. I was basically always annoyed by Hine's approach to "not explain" and to allow things to conveniently (and some might say, out of lack of initiative for more serious research) remain *mysterious* in all instances. I'm quite a fan of the Mystery principle, but I think it needs to be pursued in a very specific fashion in order to prevent it all from turning to mere superstition.

Carroll's more technical approach held my interest for more time, but I think this element of not-wired mind and form still remained, in my view also being a serious limiter of the model's power as what was on the mind side could not be sufficiently conveyed to the other side without a serious lessening of potency.

Kain

I agree. As for Hine's work -though Ive only got the Pseudonomicon to go by- the lack of technical detail leaves it looking amateurish. It's okay from my point of view not to get too technical when performing magic, but avoiding such detail when explaining its workings in a book is like trying to explain algebra by just showing the answers to sums without demonstrating how to do the math.

[Kain]

I agree. As for Hine's work -though Ive only got the Pseudonomicon to go by- the lack of technical detail leaves it looking amateurish. It's okay from my point of view not to get too technical when performing magic, but avoiding such detail when explaining its workings in a book is like trying to explain algebra by just showing the answers to sums without demonstrating how to do the math.Precicely my own viewpoint Ci Celli Ddu. Amateurish is the word I was looking for I think.

As for the algebra example: Yeah, I guess as long as we just mix and match the numbers together mysteriously enough and by maintaining our fervor, something is *bound* to happen eventually, right?...hehe...

Kain

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I noticed Joel in the pdf Kaos isue poo-poos the use of Lovecraftian Old Ones in magick, joining in with the argument that you-can't-get-help-from-Cthulhu-because-he-don't-help-humans-in-the-stories. I find such an attitude to be one-sided snobbery. Of course the Old Ones are fictional. Of course there are no ancient mysteries connected to modern fictional characters. Of course you would have to be insane to invoke them were they real and as Lovecraft described. This is all just missing the point.

[m1thr0s]

Cthulhu isn't real?
So...the $5,000.00 I just invested in Cthulhu Condo Village is gone?
Crap I wish somebody had told me this sooner! :o

m1thr0s

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Cthulhu isn't real?
So...the $5,000.00 I just invested in Cthulhu Condo Village is gone?
Crap I wish somebody had told me this sooner! :o

m1thr0s

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

What a great idea! What were you going to call the place?

[m1thr0s]

well...you know...something ooeey like Cthulu's Cauldron or something...

guess now I'll have to call it Cthulu's Buggery...

m1

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Ah now, with an octopus and a few fun house mirrors no one will be the wiser

[deviadah]

Is there anyone who hasn't seen Withnail & I? :D
In my opinion one of the best films ever made!

If you like film and have not seen it you should die!

:p

YouTube - Withnail And I - Lighter Fluid

[Naomi]

omg that's funny :(