Magickal Currents/ The Source

[fr.novumorganum]

Our weaving thread started to move in this direction, so opening a new thread for this topic seems like a productive idea.

I'd like this thread to be for discussion magickal currents, or the source, or the flow of energy before the form....deep content if you will.

Feel free to discuss ANY aspect or facet of this concept, and ALL are welcome to join in talking...

I'm interested if people buy into the division of currents---the osiris current, the 93 current, the maat current, the KAOS156 current...

[Okazaki Castle]

No, Saturn and space have form, where I am there is only flow, pure energy, the basic building blocks yet to condense.

Instead of dealing with Architypes, colours, correspondences and models like the ToL or whatever, I am learning to deal with flow, just pure flow. It is what exists between oblivion and the Architypes.


Hey Brother M! Yeah man, what you do is weaving I think, but a deeper sense of it: normally weaving is like a tapestry that you make out of the various streams of light, that which can be seen and influences, or creates, light (eg this physical world, matter) directly. When you sit in the dark you're essentially going: <puts on harsh voice> "OI!! Light, shiny, sparkly shit! I'm Oblivion and My Name alone is bigger than you, plus nastier. All that you are and have achieved is as nothing to me, for I am older and more ancient and have seen star systems and whole creations come and go. Now then. You want to continue in existence I believe? Very well then, you will make the following modifications."

There's a flow to that stream too though: how much you can introduce to this system at any one time without destroying it. You're not allowed to destroy it, you can only threaten to destroy it. The threat alone is enough though, because all debts are settled in the 'Great Accounting' of system decomission. Hence, being at the level of consciousness which determines how the light material flows and is put together, plus how it is edited, is very useful indeed. It is rather intense to live in daily life though. Usually, masks are used by most practitioners of that level of the art.

Now. As the system rotates, gates open up: it is this which allows you to introduce Chaotic input, or Dark Matter, into this creation/reality. What can be introduced when depends on what the specific concerns and topics of the moment are in the system. When you're at The Darkness Which Comes Before stage/level you simply feel, intuitively, what these topic areas are, and address those as the time flows move along. Hence, one day you'll be deciding on matters of anger, the next on matters of comfort. It is weaving though, because you are creating an existing reality context. However, what you're weaving is the background web, or context, which light will then itself weave to produce an occurring reality. As such, you're off doing a -1, as I phrase it. That means that your will is effected, but it needs to pass thru an intermediary, or emmissary. Only one, so only one modification. Essentially, it's a bit like sitting in Void and determining what comes out of it and what is dragged into it. Funnily enough, in the Japanese elemental system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_elements_(Japanese_philosophy)), they make void one of their elements:

Void
Wind
Fire
Water
Earth

Being Japanese, they've got the elements arranged in hierarchical order, none of this 'all are equal' shit you find in most systems. Void, or Ku, also corresponds to the Heavens, which seems a bit of a mystery at first, but check out how they're using it...

Not to spoil all the fun, but after you've done Dark Matter weave you then have to express that in light to get your effects nicely placed. As such, you've achieved 'redemption', or have found the light as some people say. That's where you seem to be now from what you've said, and is a cool place, like an emergence after a long, hard night. Then, once the position is secure (for void always takes its toll) and you're firmly established in comfortable external life circumstances again, you can then alternate freely between void and light, using the former for periods of discretion and quiet when you don't want to be disturbed and the latter for a bright and shiny and light public image, which the mainstreamers all love and can relate to and are drawn to...

That's about a summary on what I see of the process. It's an interesting one though in many ways, which not many people get into from what I've seen, so it's definitely something I'd be interested in discussing with you if you feel like it. Questions or areas of investigation, or w/e comes to mind...

all the best,
Oazaki.

[MythMath]

Thanks FrN for launching this...
_____________

I'd like to respond to BrotherM,

The descriptions of your practice are intriguing...

Please, tell us more about your recent experiences...

____

Have you worked 'energetically' with geometric images...?

Have you read about or worked with the TwinStar...?

http://www.abrahadabra.com/twinstar001.htm

http://www.abrahadabra.com/fol001.htm

[BrotherM]

Oazaki: I am going to need time to fully digest what you have written, relate it to my work and reply in a way that does what you are saying justice.

MM: I'll tell you what I can, like I said, this stuff does my head in, but that is kind of the point I think. I actually don't know a lot about what I am doing, I have limited theories. Stuff is pretty hard to theorise about if the only way you can interact with it involves none or your senses, anyway, some context of what I am on about (leaving out the drama of it all).

How this all started, several years ago I started getting what I like to refer to as 'premonitions'. Now what used to happen is that I would be chilling, not actually doing any kind of operation or meditation and I would get this intense rushing feeling (make your eyes water and lose balance kind of rush). It felt like I was on a coveyor belt heading to a wall at speed and the inevitable result would be... splat. It freeked me out bad, I wrote to some 'well respected' magickians, got back some bullshit about asking the Tarot etc. This was before I had knew about forums, I had been practicing for about 11 or 12 years. I began to realise that bad stuff would follow these rushing feelings so I started reading up about anything even remotely like it, mostly so I could make it work for me, who needs shit like that hanging about randomly? I felt like I could feel when the universe was changing, like a turing point in my path.

Years later and I had learned to live with it well. It happens all the time and because I worked with it through meditation and basic BoL techniques I managed to avoid the big ups and downs. Effectively, through focusing on the feelings, I sensitised to them and feel them all the time. Like I was hanging on a web and feeling how the universal energy was changing around me.

Then came the wonders on the internet and I found a ritual on connecting to the Ma'at current. It was basic, sit is some yoga position and put a candle on a table in front of you, at eye level. Hold a feather between you and the candle. Assume the four fold breath and meditate. You are supposed to feel the Ma'at current between breaths, in the silence (I never tried it btw).

It made something logically click that the key to this could be in the space between the sensations and I went and did some really deep trance work, I tried to get as deep as possible. It took a bit of effort, but eventually I got deep enough and was greated with a different kind of reality. It tends to go like this. I relax, empty my body of substance, become a crystal shell, aspire to the divine, inhale the divine light (source) until it fills me completely. I then let go of everything. I stop caring, I embrace the void and I start to slowly rotate and fall. My body goes numb, I stop being able to hear, I can't move, I feel pressure and then I feel nothing. Just before I feel nothing, I feel the pressure cracking, like a rough jagged feeling followed by this smooth velvet feeling. Eventually everything just melts, there is no light, no darkness, no emotion, no thought.

In this space, there is only one thing and that is the impression of flow, like a swirling motion. It is not unified, it is differentiated (The unified form of this I believe would probably be the Source?). The flow is recognisable in an indescribable way, it is like what exists before there is form. There is also no sense of self, the flow is me and my will can cause change in the flow at some level.

Now, after doing the above now for what must be about 2 years, I can feel more and more in normal consciousness, and I can use my WILL to control it to an extent. The bus story was a good example, I grabbed hold and WILLED myself there early, it just transpired.

I hate writing about this stuff because I come off as a nutcase, probably true. Anyway, that is all I know.

fr. novum has suggested that I may have tapped into a 'current'. I suspect that this may be the case, although I am confused how all things can exist in this current and also in other currents. Are all currents mirrors of each other? Is the GD current a reflection of the CHAOS current and are all of them a reflection of the divine/source? Who the hell came up with the numbering convention anyway?

-------------------->

Have I worked energetically with geometric shapes? I haven't really read the TwinStar stuff, although I very much intend to as soon as some irritating and time consuming mundane stuff (buying a house) is out of the way and I can dedicate time to it. If you are refering to path working the ToL, using pents, hex's etc, assuming Runeforms and using the QBL gates of power, then yes, all of the above, but I am guessing that you are talking about something different. I have to read the material...

BrotherM

[Amur]

Spirit/Void... They say that energy is created when the Spirit is moving upon the void. Another check-in is to see how Ain is basically the source itself. Basically I like to see that anything can be created that can be imagined. If this is so, then quite specktacular egregore constructions could be made by a group or why not even bigger, a collective.

A problem for myself is to kill/destroy/transmute my ego so that it allows the flow of these currents.

[fr.novumorganum]

Brother M;

I think part of the difficulty is that this terminology is still vague. Some refer to the one wellspring of magickal energy, some to the source of manifestation, others to a magickal current establishing certain forms, words etc (ie 93 current).

Biroco gave a really workable definition of the evolution of current...damn i'll have to dig through some Kaos mags and try to find it.

[BrotherM]

So, are the currents different or does it depend on who and how you use them? When I am in my state being a nutcase, I feel that there is a more unified and undifferentiate place than where I am, that could be the source. Or the source could be even more abstract, who knows.

Somebody suggested the other day that I may just have moved up a worl on the ToL, very likely a good explanation, who knows.

Looking forward to that article

[m1thr0s]

I'd like this thread to be for discussion magickal currents, or the source, or the flow of energy before the form....deep content if you will.It's funny how we seem to need to compartmentalize everything...this current, that current, this fraction, that fraction etc. I find myself having to do the same thing just to be able to communicate effectively, although I am never entirely sure it isn't just playing into a trick of mind. Because at essence, my own work has actually been more whole-systems oriented and not so specialized really at all. Yet, over time, certain systemic "signatures" have emerged that do seem to point to a kind of difference in things. In the overview, it has been my impression that magickal/mystical philosphy on all levels is undergoing a kind of global reengineering process that seems to occur in a series of steps. Breaking things down is one such step and it is through this whole distillation process that we are able to sort out our various elements, which eventually become recombined in ways that may make more sense to us in the "here and now".

I suspect that part of the reason this becomes necessary is due to erosion itself. There is not a single doctrine or teaching I can think of that comes down to us from antiquity that can be truly be considered whole or intact to begin with. This combined with a starkly different environmental pressures leads us naturally to the need to reengineer the knowledge of antiquity to meet those demands unique to the present reality context we are confronted with right here in the so-called "Kali Yuga".

Behind it all I can't help thinking we have simply lost track of where any of this knowledge is supposed to be leading us. Our maps have failed us in my view and we are dealing largely with the urgency of revamping those maps, from scratch in many instances. I suspect that we are gradually hedging on step #2 here which will be more fusionistic in scope and better able to embrace global variations along fundamentally universal themes. But none of this is a process that can be rushed any faster than it will go. I think we are going to see a different standard of "mastership" emerge in the Information Age, should it survive, that will tend to replace the more recognized standards of the past...standards which would seem to have little to no real bearing on the world/universe as we know it today anyway.

These are just stream-of-consciousness reflections for now. It will only be possible to get more specific as specific issues come up I think... In general, I will confess that I remain unconvinced of nearly all models of attainment I have seen which has precipitated an all-out effort to revamp those models on a personal level with the hope of identifying at least an outline of something that does in fact seem better suited to defining what the human condition actually is and where this necessarily leads us. I think we "know ourselves" hardly any better today than we did 10,000 years ago, yet we find ourselves today facing a severity of threats that begin to seriously require us to answer these kinds of questions correctly. Caught between a rock and a hard place, we are up against survival issues that are unparalleled in human history and will probably either make us or break us as a species.

Not an easy thing to accept necessarily but also not going away of its own accord. I don't view any of this from an alarmist perspective since I tend to think of it as a statistical given...it's just the "niche" we happen to inhabit. Moreover, this seems to be the way nature gets things done anyway. Very few (if any) significant evolutionary mutations occur in nature until they absolutely have to. So I am hopeful, at least, that the worse things seem to get, the closer this puts us to any real and meaningful solutions. Necessity is driving these various "currents" more than any other time in history I think. We appear to be an animal that has fundamentally outgrown its cozy nest. Part of the pricetag we are paying for this is that we can no longer afford the luxury of "belief" when the matter turns to things "spiritual". We're either going to fly or die here in relative short order. If we could look back on this time from a vantage point 2000 years in the future, I suspect we would easily recognize that this was a critical turning point in human evolution itself...the point at which "spirituality" necessarily became rooted in physical science. And if this had not happened in just the right kind of way, we would not have survived into that future. The fanaticism of our spirituality combined with the lethalness of our science would have simply put an end to our evolutionary turn at bat...and it may do just that yet.

Call it what you like or ignore it altogether. "Currents" are a popularity game I find reasonably annoying but are a necessary precursor to this greater reengineering objectives. The end result will be something quite unlike anything we have ever seen before at any time in this world I think. Either this or we'll be watching the reruns until we finally puke ourselves into oblivion I imagine. This topic called for "deep"...that's probably roughly about how deep this sinkhole goes in my view.

m1thr0s

[Aodh]

It has been my experience that we ARE conduits to a major "current" and thus, create creeks from the river so to speak. Through many practices, from deification of the Self to uniting with Deity to defecation on deification, we alter the "frequency" so to speak.

In the end, it isn't that we have all the power or that we have to appease the Source of it-- the power runs through us and we just have to determine the path it takes to our current goal and follow it.

I started this post with a very clear end in sight however, I seem to have lost it. Take what I've written so far at face value and maybe later I'll have more to add.

[m1thr0s]

that would seem to make us more accurately "conduits" than "currents" Aodh.
An interesting perspective though...virtually indestructable logically speaking.

m1thr0s

[Aodh]

that would seem to make us more accurately "conduits" than "currents" Aodh.
An interesting perspective though...virtually indestructable logically speaking.

m1thr0s
Good point; I hate spastic mindsets like that. Great for inspiration but you tend not to really analyze what you're saying. >.<

[fr.novumorganum]

M1thr0s:

I agree with much of what you said in post#8, but I do have a question I'd like to prod your head with---

I understand your position on the topic of currents, but do you think we employ these maps a priori, as part of the only way we can understand these things, or a posteriori as a result of the experience. In other words are we creating the models b/c the models are part of the experience, or b/c our currnet mind/sense structure needs them to interpret experience?


Which could lead to the question, if we start calling it current X instead of current Y, is that b/c the current changed or our understanding of it did (or did we just pick a prettier word)?

I'm glad we're discussing this here---I know the terminology of currents is problematic, but as poor as it is, it is the term we have now...maybe we can distill something better in these discussions.

[m1thr0s]

I understand your position on the topic of currents, but do you think we employ these maps a priori, as part of the only way we can understand these things, or a posteriori as a result of the experience. In other words are we creating the models b/c the models are part of the experience, or b/c our currnet mind/sense structure needs them to interpret experience?this conversation has a lot of angles. models of Self that emerge that turn out to have any particular staying power almost always also turn out to have their basis in physical anatomy in some way and this even pertains to cosmological models such as the I Ching for instance, which, because it is balanced internally...because it carries the "ring of truth" on a physical level...is capable of evolving through many stages of development without suffering significant alteration on a purely structural level. So what changes? Interpretations change...the "meanings" of things change...the "judgments", the "images", the "commentaries"...all change and undergo change almost perpetually.

Let's try a different model..say the Tree of Life for instance. Again we find that some things have remained unchanged for upwards to thousands of years by some estimates while other things have changed enormously. Same with the Chakras, same with almost any maps of this kind we could point to.

Apparently this indicates that a good map...one that resonates strongly and survives the test of time...is already rooted a priori in some way and this is one of the underscoring assumptions of sacred geometry in general. It doesn't require experience to be true because its truth is rooted at a level even deeper than the senses. At the same time, interpretations are interactive assessments based on the sum of our aquired knowledge so this must certainly be an a posteriori kind of knowledge for the mostpart.

I think that the simplest key to this is looking at it from the vantage of self-observation itself...that the kinds of maps I am discussing here are those that qualify and quantify self-understanding, or self-knowledge to begin with. Some of this knowledge is directly gleanable on a sub-atomic level while the form it takes has to be filtered through language and logic prisms established over time. This has an up side and a down side to it since on the one hand it suggests that we already know everything we really need to know, while on the other hand it suggests that we can never clearly know what we have not prepared ourselves to know. Paradoxical situation...much like life as I understand it.

m1thr0s

[Kain]

Great topic fr.novumorganum, and very interesting points of view expressed so far by everyone. Apparently this indicates that a good map...one that resonates strongly and survives the test of time...is already rooted a priori in some way and this is one of the underscoring assumptions of sacred geometry in general. It doesn't require experience to be true because its truth is rooted at a level even deeper than the senses. At the same time, interpretations are interactive assessments based on the sum of our aquired knowledge so this must certainly be an a posteriori kind of knowledge for the mostpart.My personal opinion is very much in agreement with the above-mentioned quote by m1thr0s. I think that for a really powerful and important map, a "player" in the unfoldment of the puzzle if you will, both a priori and a posteriori connections need to be established, both "objective" and "subjective" ones if you will. I agree that Sacred Geometry manages to convey this exact same point of a priori connection through it's various forms and geometrical correlations and proofs. The truth still remains at a symbolic level in this stage however, not yet actually accessible to nor pinpointed by analytical thinking due to it's symbolic and "multi-dimensional" form of depiction. The actual interpretation of the symbolically portrayed truth is the a posteriori connection that in a way makes it accessible to our current perspective. This is accomplished through specialization, as the multi-formed meaning of the symbolic or direct truth is narrowed down to the most direct tangible/situated notion we can personally (through our personality filter and the social impressions of our time etc) identify it with. Both are necessary processes, and in fact prerequisites, for sufficiently immediate and direct interraction with a certain map/model though.

Kain

[m1thr0s]

quite so. let's just take one obvious example...the eight trigrams of the I Ching. To the Chinese Sages these could be resolved into an assortment of "images" which they then identified as governing "elements" and we are off to the races from there combining these various elements together to produce a mathematically tight composite, or "cosmology". The essential structure they observed was very solid...they could feel it in their bones...they knew it was sound both in number and in nature. How did they know this? Nobody exactly knows...

Fast-forward 5-6000 years and we come to genetics science where again the I Ching makes a surprizing debut since it turns out that the DNA/RNA codes are built upon the exact same binary mathematics as the I Ching itself! Well that's interesting, but here's the quandary...what do we now call the eight primary trigrams? What "images" best identify them in this new context? Does the DNA code itself give a damn about the Mountain or the Lake? Probably not, in which case we will be faced with redefining these core elements to meet that new and unexpected context.

Yet the underscoring call was a good one...even better than anyone could have possibly guessed...and still they guessed it right. Doesn't this tell us that they must have somehow gleaned it on the basis of some a priori harmonic *principle* that exists even before the senses...and well ahead of experiential knowledge?

m1thr0s

[Kain]

A wonderful example really, very well spotted m1thr0s...

Kain

[fr.novumorganum]

That is a very good example; one that makes this somewhat abstract discussion very tangible...the images are (excuse the term) the presentation of the deeper harmonic principle, identifying them as elements the (although a very very good one) sign/map by which to be able to work with it on our world...

huh, I suddenly see why you've been pressing that *atrophy* term lately we're not building these things, we're taking the casts off.

[m1thr0s]

huh, I suddenly see why you've been pressing that *atrophy* term lately we're not building these things, we're taking the casts off.exactly, and there is an invaluable lesson to be learned from this in terms of pioneering so-called "new" knowledge of any kind as well. In a very real sense we don't need anything "new" at all...not ever...what we need to know is what is there already that we may have failed to get to in the past. I sometimes use the Wright Brothers as an example of this. For thousands of years people wanted to fly and just couldn't get the hang of it. Then these two brothers come along and nail it clean within a few years time. Did they discover something "new"? Not at all...the physics of flight is not new to nature...it's been at this stuff for millions of years already. We just had a very difficult time getting the "cast" off, as you say.

When I set about to understand the hidden principles of Abrahadabra...it's all the same thing. I don't give a rats ass about the "new" stuff...I want the stuff that's already deeply embedded...the stuff that really works...the stuff that has been there all along that we have somehow simply failed to see. People come along and think they are seeing something "new" and promply set up shields against it I fear...they do not understand what they are seeing and miss the point in all too many cases. It's because I know how the game is played that I have managed to be reasonably successful...but that success is not based on having discovered anything "new" so much as having gleaned out certain hidden "universals". Big difference. New stuff comes and goes. Universals can be validated from scratch by anybody at all (once they have been observed) and that's why "my" stuff will outlive me...it's already untold millions of years older than I am already...built right into the very fabric of things.

note: Crowley did discuss this by the way with particular reference to Abrahadabra. He indicated that when the greater truth of it would be revealed that it would finally be seen to be entirely self-evident, having been there all along. He understood this whole process better than anyone of his generation. Unfortunately it cannot be "entirely self-evident" to those who are unaccustomed to validating things logically! That puts us at a bit of a disadvantage with respect to occult knowledge in general and becomes part & parcel of a whole handicapped thinking that needs to be addressed and overcome. For myself, I don't want followers...I want code-crackers and tantric technologists and number-crunchers and topological wizards...these are the ones who will vindicate my work and also add to it in unexpected ways.

Where the hell is the board of occult scientists in this world who can scrutinize and sanction our works? In one sense, it is probably good that no such thing exists since all these things become corrupted with money and predjudicial thinking, sooner or later. On the other hand, it speaks to a grave disadvantage for "mavericks" running ahead of their times to the greater benefit of all. All that is, except themselves, in so many cases. Crack researchers are very rarely also successful publicists and really shouldn't have to be.

Anyway, at this point I have wandered off the trail I think...damn thorns always piss me off...:angry:

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

There was at least one book written a number of years ago that attempted to lay down a theory regarding how the wisdom of antiquity was actually derived. I only had a chance to skim it at the time and now can't even remember the title or author but the basic theory was that people have lost the ancient art of "hearing" themselves essentially and now rely almost exclusively on knowledge presented to them from without. We do a certain lip service to being attuned to our inner voices etc but when push comes to shove we go to the book, or the microscope, or some other science-based icon. There was a time when people relied much more heavily on being able to hear their own internal echoes and accurately decipher what those meant.

Different people might have different skills. One guy can forecast the weather while the next guy can tell you how your crops will fare over the coming season etc. Some lady two doors down can tell you if any kids are coming down the pike and what their genders are and even what their names will be etc. People set their clocks this way and actually relied upon these kinds of knowledge. We like to think in our arrogance that this was all a bunch of hooey that was unreliable and based in ignorance. But we don't actually have any factual basis for drawing these conclusions. Maybe it even was unreliable to some extent in certain cases...as is modern science in all its glory. It may be that we actually need both sides of our brains working in tangent and not just one side or the other.

We still have a remnant of these skills kicking around within us but we no longer listen...we have trained ourselves away from this. And still some guy you may know can tell you when it's going to rain or snow or hail by the way his bones click or pop or squeek etc, with even greater accuracy than the weather channel and all its radar scanning gear. These things aren't lost to us...we have just decommissioned them for the mostpart.

m1thr0s

[BrotherM]

Sorry for not continuing the conversation, this does relate to currents and the source and hopefully it will be somewhat on topic. If not, I will delete it. BTW, the more I read about what m1thr0s is doing, the more it confirms what I think in that this is one, big, objective reality and no matter what path you take, if you dig deep enough, you get to the same place.

Somebody asked me if I had, or could comment on, any results with working directly with the currents and I have one that I found out about last night that I would like to share. I would like to share because it is just amazing, I know we call this stuff magick but damn, some times I worry myself.

A relative was in a bad place house wise. She is an old lady and due to a bad divorce, is now house sharing with some pretty rough people. It was getting bad she started looking for a different place to live. So I did my magick which is to pull the currents around her to help her get a new place, and I really put a lot of effort into making it a good place. 2 weeks later, somebody (not a total stranger) actually fronted up the cash and bought her a house... I am still trying to fully accept it but hey, objective reality is that she is now living in a house bought for her by somebody else.

It seems to me that regardless of what you call it, there is a flow to life that can be influenced via many different methods. To me it is an internal development process that allows us to access it at more and more primal levels and thus exert more influence. Although I don't know, I suspect that this is what Abrahadabra is about, self development, building awareness and initiatory contact to the flow of the universe...

[Radiant Star]

And still some guy you may know can tell you when it's going to rain or snow or hail by the way his bones click or pop or squeek etc, with even greater accuracy than the weather channel
Yep, I agree with that, I can tell when its going to rain and when Scotland is likely to get snow for some reason, though that is several hundred miles away.

[Anibis]

It seems to me that regardless of what you call it, there is a flow to life that can be influenced via many different methods. To me it is an internal development process that allows us to access it at more and more primal levels and thus exert more influence. Although I don't know, I suspect that this is what Abrahadabra is about, self development, building awareness and initiatory contact to the flow of the universe...


I think you've said it quite well, brother M. I see it as being about attuning oneself to the TAO, or whatever you'd like to call it. THe fields allow us to safely extend our being to a very great extend and really yoke to the flows of the Universe.... A big part of it is also being influenced by the universe as well. In the end, it is the universe influencing itself through a 'hypercontracted mode' (the human individual/star body), so to speak...
-Ibisis