Freemasonry...

[Anibis]

I am having re-occuring dreams of becomming a mason... Also in visions... It is strange. I do not subsribe to the ideals of this instution, nor do I suppose it accords to well with what i have always supposed; that the 'temple' and the 'star' are irreconcilable opposites... What, I wonder would happen if I did become a mason... I have always taken them to be Osirian in the extreme, and yet, as I have become more maatian in character I guess that matters less and less; Pan Aeon, as it were... So, what do ya think, would this Ibis make a good mason? I think I would... I suspect I already 'know' whatever secrets they have... but there may be better reasons for joining...
-Ibisis
Are there any masons on this board? What are your thoughts? Is Masonry at the end of the day a 'good' thing, or is it not?

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I am having re-occuring dreams of becomming a mason... Also in visions... It is strange.

Have you been eating cheese before going to bed? :p

Is Masonry at the end of the day a 'good' thing, or is it not?


Apparently the Lodge here in Caernarfon can only be accessed via the County Council building, something Ive yet to verify myself. The one in Bangor 7 miles down the road is such an unimpressive building that, despite the fact that it stands apart on the main road in the city centre, I never even noticed it until someone told me what it was last year.

[Anibis]

Sometimes... but I'm serious. There's also a lovely old temple here... they have unfortunately had to sell it, but they are now able to rent their own halls... its sortof sad...
-Ibisis

[Kain]

As I've probably disclosed elsewhere I have a mason acquaintance who in fact was quite amazed to hear of me being able to perform basic psychokinetic excercises. I guess their secrets are not well kept nor practiced in their majority. I think that, for the most part, the masons suffer from the disease most orders do once they grow in number...ending up to be "institutions", their essence crystalizing into stasis out of overeagerness to retain form. I've nearly gotten asked to join at some point although I don't think I'de be able to fit into Freemasonry personally.

That aside, yeah, I guess you'de make a good mason if you cared to join Ibisis...interesting occurance by the way. Such "out of the blue" dreams are often important if they are persistant.

Kain

[Anibis]

Well, I keep thinking that too, but as I get older I actually begin looking at some of the older traditions as possessing a fragile beauty... As a taurus, it would certainly be one heck of a Hierophant meditation...
-Ibisis

[Kain]

Well, I keep thinking that too, but as I get older I actually begin looking at some of the older traditions as possessing a fragile beauty... As a taurus, it would certainly be one heck of a Hierophant meditation...
-IbisisI know what you mean. And certainly the traditions themselves have nothing to do with (nor to be blamed for) the state their official Orders are in. There is a distinct line between a traditions theory and it's social application, and from what I'm observing things have gone extensively downhill concerning the maintenance of genuine and quality tradition material within many respective Orders that are said to have kept it pure and intact for generations. I'm currently making some research of my own related to my personal interests concerning occultism and the state I find even some reputedly renouned Orders that have been kept going for centuries is quite depressing. I guess one has to experience such things from within in order to make a valid observation, but still there are cases that even an external examination is enough to persuade and inform one of what goes on within.

Kain

[Anibis]

For sure... And It's not as a 'seeker' that I would join, but as a power, I think... perhaps I could bring something there, and learn something in turn... it's so strange... I have though about it, and been repulsed for years and years... but now... who knows...
-Ibisis

[Anibis]

I notice that Catlytic Subterfuge is also a mason... strange... I think you joined for some of the same reasons I am considering... If It plays out that way, I'll let you know (and give you the secret handshake), cat... heh heh heh
-Ibisis

[fr.novumorganum]

I've only hear good things about masonic bodies (except in New Jersey). Considering that my OTO brothers would be kicked out of the Masons if their OTO membership was revealed, but they still speak well of the experience in the masons, I take that as a good sign. (wow that's some bad syntax)

[Luciftias]

I was involved in two mixed-gender Masonic Orders for a while. I went through the three standard blue lodge degrees and helped perform them. I got quite a bit out of it. I'm not active now, but would consider getting back into it in the future.

Jeremy

[Anibis]

LOL. I just got the acceptance letter in the mail 45 minutes ago... Timing IS everything! Looks like I'll be one of the last people to be initiated in the Old Temple here, which has been sold. It is one beautiful building...
-Anibis

[Sibylle]

That's great, Anibis!

[Kain]

Most interesting Anibis... timing is indeed everything ;)

Kain

[Anibis]

I also had a hunch earlier today that I would find out today... I get these from time to time, and they are spot on... Did I mention that I thought they would not accept me, since during the interview I cut to the chase and asked them about the status of women in the lodge (On of the things that kept me away from Masonry is the all male aspect, which I have learned is not true across the board!), as well as what the process is if I wish to leave. I got the impression that they might not have liked that... THEN I had another dream where a Mason approached me and said, you have been accepted, and I started looking at my hands for which finger to put the ring on...

Wild... Mason dreams are actually one of the most common re-occuring dreams I have (also losing teeth, which isn't so good: if anyone has insight into what this means I'd like to hear it)... Being a Mason, wearing a ring... once I was given a working square and compass.

One time in the waking world I bought a Mason's bible at a liturigal antiques store... I looked in it, and there was a dedication page with blank spots for the candidates signature and the initiating officer's signatures, for the initiation... the wierd thing was that while the initiating officers spaces were signed, the candidate's signature was not there! It was blank... I always said to myself that I'd sign it if I became a mason... This was one of the first major omens which pushed me in this direction... That was almost ten years ago!
-Anibis

[Anibis]

Thanks Sibylle... it is surreal, but it feels very right... I feel full of energy and light to bring to the lodge...
-Anibis

[Okazaki Castle]

I've had quite a bit of contact with Masons thru friends from school, and was invited to join them three times. I never did, but I did copy their mysteries out of the auras of other masons, and then used those mysteries to do some of my work with. A Masonic Ring is a very important accessory for that, in practice. It needs to be gold. Red is the most powerful, and then Blue can be quite useful. Black will be looked down upon and is best kept secret. Masons run things thru buildings and are a good access path to Architects.

That's a bit of a simple way of putting it, but I could be more serious and academic about it if people think that's necessary.

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Anibis]

Yes, buildings... This is a practice I know... Really one of the deciding factors at the end of the day... Buildings as sigils... not a stupid thought...
-Anibis

[MythMath]

Well Catalytic Subterfuge just left here, after dropping by
the studio for a random evening's chat about Freemasonry,
and matters of light and enlightenment, etc...

Then I find this thread waiting... :p

_____________________


And now I hear this song in my head:


It's over there, it's over there
My building has every convenience
It's gonna make life easy for me
It's gonna be easy to get things done
I will relax along with my loved ones

Loved ones, loved ones visit the building
Take the highway, park and come up and see me
I'll be working, working but if you come visit
I'll put down what I'm doing, my friends are important

I wouldnt worry bout
I wouldnt worry about me
Dont you worry bout me
Dont you worry bout me..........

Talking Heads (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/t/talking+heads/)
Don’t Worry About The Government (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/t/talking+heads/dont+worry+about+the+government_20135095.html)

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

So I have, as of Saturday, become officially a Master Mason. I have zero regrets of doing so, except that it took me this long to find them.

A few comments to those above.....

I have often relished in this thing we call enlightenment. I struggled long and hard to figure out what it was I was feeling, thinking, doing.....

I am proud to have foud this group of brotherly men whom share similar, albeit sometimes differing views of the "collective universal consiousness" as I wish to refer to it.

The degree work was in itself inspiring; at times due more to the pagentry of it all than anything, however, I have found a new sense of being in my participation in this craft and am more than completely satisfied.

I wanted to share with you all a story of my final degree work which I have already done so with MythMath.....

The person whom was my mentor is a highly respected businessman in my town. He is, some would say, a rediculously wealthy individual, though his character is humble and reserved. Needless to say, I was greatly honored to have as my mentor this individual!!!!

During one of the lectures of the final degree I shared with him my previous pursuits of enlightenment (including ABRAHADABRA) and the fact I am daily and continually amazed how much of Masonry and Alchemy are present in the world if we are willing to see it. In our discussions of geometry and cosmic purpose, he divulged a story to me that put me on cloud 9 so to speak. He asked if I had heard of a book by Manly Hall called "the secret teachings of all ages (http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/)"? I had not and he then mentioned that an old Masonic brother had given him a copy many years ago and that he was actively now working on alchemist/esoteric endeavors! He mentioned that it was odd to have a newly raised Mason interested in things such as this and also that he was a member of the Rosecrutians. He told me he wanted me to have the very book that was given him by his previous mentor and that he had something else which he thought I should have. I have yet to discover this other "else" of which he spoke of but my mind is wondering with true bliss.

I cannot say with any certainty that any of the teachings of Masonry are or are not with validity, only that I feel I am on the right path, and that Masonry is only a portion of the catalyst by which my concious may endure enlightenment. My conversations with MythMath have proven greatly interesting and I commend his efforts here and in his "other" life in helping shed "light" to those in quest.

[Anibis]

I feel very good about this decision and look forward to the initiations. Seems however that I have a class scheduled on the day of the primary initiation so I may bump it to September... I am teaching a 6 week course in sleight of hand with cards... ANyhow, I'm glad they accepted me, and I feel really into it...
-Anibis

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

Congrats Anibis!

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

Oazaki: Why is Black looked down upon? What are the different power points of the three different colored stones?


I've had quite a bit of contact with Masons thru friends from school, and was invited to join them three times. I never did, but I did copy their mysteries out of the auras of other masons, and then used those mysteries to do some of my work with. A Masonic Ring is a very important accessory for that, in practice. It needs to be gold. Red is the most powerful, and then Blue can be quite useful. Black will be looked down upon and is best kept secret. Masons run things thru buildings and are a good access path to Architects.

That's a bit of a simple way of putting it, but I could be more serious and academic about it if people think that's necessary.

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Neshamah]

The Masons down here in Georgia are groups of "good ol' boys." None that I've met know who Manly P. Hall is, or any of their more 'esoteric' writers. They just like to get together and have BBQ dinners and pancake breakfasts. They do raise a lot of money for homeless children and for various hospitals, but if you live in Georgia, don't join the Masons looking for an Occult oriented fraternity.

Just my two cents . . . ;)

Love, Life, and Peace Profound,

Neshamah

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

This past Saturday I became a 32nd degree Mason and a member of the Mizpah Shrine. This journey has been a long time coming and has already been rewarding to the Nth degree! Pun intended! I have found a place in my local community where free thinking individuals reside from all walks of life. Yes, there are a few "good ol boys" but, there are also a few whom have pointed me on a path to enlightenment. This path has come to represent my life in many ways. We are all just fellows on a journey! I went to see the Peaceful Warrior last week. The one thing I've taken from that movie, book and from Masonry is that we must live in the NOW and the destination is irrelevant. It is all about the JOURNEY! I'll be sure and update my quest through Masonry here or on other threads. My quest is larger than Masonry, however, and I look forward to the wisdom, experience, and "light" all of you have to offer.

[fr.novumorganum]

Congrats! I'm glad that you are finding the things you are looking for.

[Frater Yechidah]

A hearty congrats from me too.

I think Freemasonry is a good place to start if people don't know any other esoteric orders in their vicinity. If nothing else, it may put them into contact with a few people who know the "occult scene" of that area, and can therefore point them in a right direction (if they want something "more").

As far as I'm aware, the majority of Freemasons here in Dublin are of the "good ol' boy" variety.

LLLSHJ,
Yechidah.

[Kain]

That's great to hear Catalytic Subterfuge, congratulations! :)

Kain

[Anibis]

Seems like there are some GOB's here too, but still, I like the vibe behind the scenes... There is some wisdom afloat too..
-Anibis

[Oroc]

Anibis, did u ever consider that your "Masonic Dreams" could be visions from a past life?

[Anibis]

Hi Oroc. Yes, I have suspected that for some time. Since I decided to apply for membership, they have also become quite a bit more frequent, as well as various synchronicities like discovering that my elder cousin (from the half of the family that I hardly know but who live in the same place as me) is a Master Mason. I accidently ran into him yesterday, and he recognized me, though I did not recognize him. I am to be initiated tonight, actually, so this comes at a perfect time, since it gives him a chance to come out to the ceremony. I feel better about this every day... I go into the temple, and I can read it like a book, too... maybe not perfectly, but I really feel like I just soak up the meaning of all the symbols. So anyhow... By the time I get back this evening, I'll be a Freemason! Funny life...
-Anibis

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

Congrats Brother!

[MythMath]

Y'all are multiplying like bunnies around here...

[Naomi]

It's a complex topic with myriad threads weaving to and fro.:cool:

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

Freemasonry keeps popping up all over the place. Here is an image I ran across today. I kind of like it.

[deviadah]

Found some cool Masonic images HERE (http://www.freimaurerkunst.de/) (some in bronze):


:sunny:

[Ci Celli Ddu]

LOL. I just got the acceptance letter in the mail 45 minutes ago... Timing IS everything! Looks like I'll be one of the last people to be initiated in the Old Temple here, which has been sold. It is one beautiful building...
-Anibis

I don't get this. What kind of Masons do you have in North America? In the UK you don't apply to become a Mason. You're either invited or you're not.

[Anibis]

Hmm... Old ones, looking for new ones... THe way it works is you need two masons to propose and second you, then you are interviewed by a triumvirate, then you are voted on by the Lodge, then you are initiated...
-Anibis

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

For 200 years you could not approach a potential candidate and ask them to join. You had to to ask a Mason, to Be a Mason. The decline of membership and, the multitude of lodges that sprung up in the 1940s and 1950s have precipitated the desparate need for new members. There are many lodges that are now defunct due to declining membership and lack of funds. Numbers are in drastic decline and, although I don't necesarily agree, they have now allowed us to recruit new members.

[Rough Ashlar]

Brother Anibis,

What are your thoughts now that you have seen the forms and beauties?

[frater luciferi]

all this masonry talk is tempting me to crack open my copy of morals and dogma. can anyone here recommend any other good masonic books?

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

Two really GREAT books:

Masonic Hermetic, Qabbalistic & Rosicrucian Symbolical Philosophy by Manly P Hall.

True Esoteric Tradition by M. Dale Palmer

[Anibis]

Rough Ashlar. I wish I new exactly what you meant by the forms and beauties... Strangely what I find myself thinking about mostly IS the Rough Ashlar, and the lights and tools. I am very much in the rough, myself, and am applying the Masonic process to working on my own home, and watching my own development as a citizen. It's a slow process, but I'm not in a hurry. I think that's the thing about Masonry that attracts me: the Art of Citizenship... Still I feel only nominally like a mason.... Guess I have to wait for th next 2 degrees...

[Rough Ashlar]

Yes, the masonic system is quite different than most ritual-magic systems. It applies subtle heat, transforming the personality slowly and thoroughly. Of course, the hermetic approach used by the more "magical" systems can be applied to masonry. Anyone with experience in ceremonial magic can easily see it in masonry. The masonic system lines up with many mystical lineages as well. It's a wonderful outter court into the western mystery tradition.

One of the things that used to aggrivate me as a younger mason now inspires me with awe for the system. It bothered me that noone in my lodge recognized masonry as a system of ceremonial magic. The truth is, the system might not affect a large majority of the people in the positive manner that it now does if they knew it to be "magic". Through its subtlety it reaches many men that might otherwise have remained at a perpetual distance from the craft. Yet it still presents all of the elements for a solid training in ritual magic for those with the eyes to see it.

Caritas

[Anibis]

Well, at the level of symbol-sensitivity I have come to, watching the rituals is astonishing... I feel the Lodge as a single being... Quite amazing how well integration is achieved.... very cool,
-Anibis

[Ci Celli Ddu]

So what's this secret handshake thing then?

[fr.novumorganum]

Ok, I've cleaned up the thread. It is now reopened for on topic discussion of the topic. This was a good thread, and I'd like to see it continue.

[Kuroyagi]

Im somehow with Naomi in relation to the womens question....the gay thing I dont believe of course (but also this I dont know cause Im ignorant about any and all Masonic stuff)- though of course her utterly mean and trickster like question wasnt polite...yes...

But if I may-is it still ok to ask about the women? I dont know??- are they "allowed" in freemasonry or not...also I of course agree that there are many "queer" ;) and maybe wrong myths surrounding the masonic orgs, but isnt that natural if an organization plays with secrecy etc...isnt it normal that many outsiders will suppose that they dont restrict themselves to the aim of self development and refinement but also- since they are a group and "friends" or brothers- will like all humans support one another (negatively formulated: nepotism), helping one another out etc, mixing political and economic influences (plutocratism)...I dont know and dont say that its what its like but it doesnt make a good impression if the Masons would react to critique with simple agression instead of being matter of factly and cool about it because that also says something of guilt and lack of personal development (I as an often misused artist can vouch for that and anger in the face of unfair and mean critique is the characteristic of a beginner..)...You see, I actually can see many parallels to x-tianity in argumentation here. While Im no "fan" of some parts of it I must still say that from a Christian standpoint it could be considered as unfair to be critizsed about things like: "why are there no woman priests etc" from a social mundane or political viewpoint instead of an eternal mythical or religious one. We must have compassion and walk in justice as magicians cause we are here for all- for All- and not just one group...

[Naomi]

One could say, when you work the will of heaven, you are doing so strictly for all females, everywhere.

But what am I saying, I have more masculinity in my little pinky than most human males do in their entire lives...probably get in more fist fights too.

It is probably because the human males have been taught to access the wrong kind of masculine principal. I know what the freemasons and masons are about anyways, it just amuses me to play dumb, for the reactions are so predictable. That's it - calm, cool and collected is what attracted me to Satanism in the first place...

[Naomi]

http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/d/e/2/highres_324034.jpeg

I had the displeasure of being drawn into some indepth visionary trance experiences involving this group so I did some research. So allow me to divulge some of my insights into the group's symbology. This is all guesswork (ie I made it up)

The G represents the great serpent, Ananta with the serifs forming stylized horns. The tail on the bottom represents also the pillar, the foundation of man, upon which is placed offerings.

Similarily, the "peace" or "victory" wreath of leaves is also representative of draconian symbology, the leaves are green scales. This should be a water dragon, the apsu or the ocean. This could be seen as Tiamat or the mother goddess, but in active (changing) function it is masculine, and thus opposite of its normal function. The ocean becomes masculine and the sky becomes feminine. Dakinis, anyone? The bow is an attempt to "tie up" her power - however, it is only a symbol, and in reality it can be cut.

The compass is actually Nuit, bending upon the earth, and the disc represents the great abyss through which she carries all of mankind into the stars. In this version it is accentuated with a feminine art noveau flourish. The feet and hands are at a point, for she is also the archer and the bow, piercing samsara.

The square is earth itselfm the lines represent the men upon it and the measurement of time (mahakala is a better representation of time, however)

Freemasonry, despite all of these noble gestures and secret symbols could be seen as a force of entropy, and we shall see, in time...

[Kuroyagi]

Again excellent symbolism nao, especially inspiring is what you wrote about the wreath (the other things I knew somehow): yeah dragon scales: thinking about it in combination with the oak leaves and laurels of the emperors...great.

But what am I saying, I have more masculinity in my little pinky than most human males do in their entire lives...probably get in more fist fights too.exactly. me too. I have more femininity in my pinky than other women have in their being...thats why we have this great chance, being so differently, we have the opportunity. Together we could rule the galaxy you know, its our CHANCE, my friend! :cool:

http://starwars.carrotnetwork.com/joinme02.jpg

but the prob is that these posts may get deleted again cause their OT etc..

[Kuroyagi]

So obviously its forbidden to make polemic posts about the Masons here...? :laugh:

Anyway if the question about women isnt addressed I'll draw my own conclusions...

[deviadah]

Oh women and Freemasonry is not a problem (semi-problem perhaps). Everyone has to follow the times, right?

Women in Freemasonry (http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/women.html)

Actually this site is good when it comes to any question regarding Freemasonry (they even replied to my e-mails which shows their willingness to aid seekers of facts): CLICK (http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/grandlodge.html)

I've used it a lot, it even comments on anti-masonry facts.

[Anibis]

This issue of women in freemasony is interesting. I think that for those of you who have just raised it, that it might be advisable to actually read the whole thread from the beginning, rather than just cut in with 'anti-masonic polemics' or whatever you call them. The rule against paradigm bashing applies to every paradigm, guys... So, in case you were wondering the issue of women in masonry has already been addressed IN THIS THREAD... look here (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showpost.php?p=18105&postcount=10). At least do the posters here the justice of reading a thread before you derail it into your own theories...
-Anibis

[Rough Ashlar]

As far as someone drawing their own conclusions, I strongly reccomend that. There are plenty of women involved in masonry. And the break down of the masonic square and compass by naomi was not bad at all. Most masons would disagree with every point. However, It was an intelligent post filled with quite a bit of truth.

I'm pretty sure than all of the masons here do not appreciate her tone though. To mask a mockery as a question and then repeatedly claim that it was a simple innocent and inquisitive question.... That's why no masons were eager to reply. There's no time for such nonsense.

If you would like to intelligently discuss masonry as two adult magicians, there are plenty who would be happy to. Most of us have no time for what has transpired on this thread over the last week. If that makes me "holier than thou"... Ok.

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

Here, here!!! As a Mason, 32 Degree Scottish Rite, and Shriner, I must concur with Rough Ashler. However, we all know that Naomi can sideline the real issues with her drivel. That being said, I too would volunteer an inteligent discusion anytime about this subject.

[The White Pearl]

Something of interest..
There are two female groups that meet in a masonic temple.Both are for young women.They are the Rainbow Girls and Jobs daughters.I was once a jobs daughter so let me know if you want to know more.
If your going to get a full picture then you should look up the other parts of what gos on in a masonry temple.

[Rough Ashlar]

I too would volunteer an inteligent discusion anytime about this subject.


Then how about one of my reflections upon A Certain Point Within A Circle...



"...and while a Mason keeps himself circumscribed within these due bounds it is impossible that he should materially err." -- Masonic Ritual

What is the center?


According to the Lightfoot Manual, an old Texas Monitor "In the temples of Egypt and Chaldea, the point within a circle represents the Sun." He also points out that the druid temples, such as Stonehenge, were all circular, with a stone in the center. Likewise, in the Scandinavian Hall of Odin there were twelve seats situated in a circle, with an elevated seat in the center for Odin, representing the zodiac, with the Sun in the center.

If we survey nature, we find every object, no matter how large or small, moving around a center. The Sun, a key symbol in masonry, is the center and life giver of our solar system. It controls the planets revolving around it, providing them with energy. If we take into account that man is a microcosm of the Universe, it follows that there is a life-giving principle at the center of our own being.

The first set of working tools that we receive in our journey through masonry consists of a hammer and a gauge. Upon reflecting on these, we might notice that one of these tools embodies brute force, while the other seems to establish some sort of form. That is, we have an active force that we are to learn to keep within due bounds.

The ritual tells us, in regards to the point within a circle, that "the point represents an individual brother; the circle is the boundary line…" This seems to be the same idea as the working tools. The point is the active, life-giving force at the center of each of us, the circle being the receptive form, or boundary, that this force knows.

The circle, on one level, represents infinity and on another represents completion, we find Unity expressing itself as a Duality. In the Fellow craft degree we are told that a point is an indivisible amount of space. It is indivisible, therefore infinitesimal, while its dual counterpart represents infinite space expanding forever outward.

With this model we see that the point and the circle are one and the same. The point is infinite contrast, the circle infinite expansion. The center is everywhere at once, taking on various forms represented by the circle in a constantly expanding Universe. Along the boundary of the circle exists an endless amount of points, indicating the multitude of possibilities; all of which are the center of the Universe, the Divine Will penetrates every aspect of manifestation. Unity expressed as Duality all for the sake of Love; the point “knowing” and the circle being known.

The center is everywhere at once! At the very center of our being is the Divine Will (that part of us that never, never, never dies) expressing itself both to and through us. We are the Divine Will in manifestation, which is Love. Not only are we the product of this Love, we are the conduit through which it continues to manifest. We are creators.

The fact that masonry gives us tools to build that spiritual building, which is at once our own personality and the Universe as a whole, tells us that we have an active role in creating the Universe. Accordingly, it becomes our duty to consciously build in accordance with the plan of the Almighty, which we find upon the trestle-board of nature. We are not just responsible for ourselves. As builders at the center of the All, we are responsible for our entire Universe, which is constantly expanding in accordance with our ability to build, our ability to Love. Our cable-tow is not static, it is infinitely growing.

This is an incredible amount of responsibility. Understanding of the point within a circle demands that we keep our passions within due bounds, acting in accordance with the Law of Love, which is finding the Divine Will at our center, as well as the center of everything we encounter. When we do this it will be impossible that we should materially err.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

He also points out that the druid temples, such as Stonehenge, were all circular, with a stone in the center

Call me a pedant, but I have to point out here that neolithic sites such as The Giant's Choir (Stone Henge) were not Druid temples. That's like calling an Ancient Egyptian temple a Coptic church.

[frater luciferi]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/fraterluciferi/baphomet.jpg

this is not masonic but occultic in a similar sense.

[Kuroyagi]

This issue of women in freemasony is interesting. I think that for those of you who have just raised it, that it might be advisable to actually read the whole thread from the beginning, rather than just cut in with 'anti-masonic polemics' or whatever you call them. The rule against paradigm bashing applies to every paradigm, guys... So, in case you were wondering the issue of women in masonry has already been addressed IN THIS THREAD... look here (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showpost.php?p=18105&postcount=10). At least do the posters here the justice of reading a thread before you derail it into your own theories...
-Anibis
Yup, youre right Anibis, it was a fair and not dogmatic discussion from the beginning and you yourself werent even clear/certain about it either...skimming through the thread Im probably more of Kain's opinion...Im not all that closed towards FM; Yet (about the topic of women) I must say that: 1) after having hung around several occult forums and sites and even "myspace" on the net for ~3yrs and having encountered maybe about 200-300+ self-declared FMs...its still worth to note that none, not a single one of them was a a women...and 2) that SOME FM lodges at least seem to not accept women (e.g. the Austrian prominent one)...so my conclusion is, after seeing the arguments and links: it is not against women and there are women too but it doesnt attract them too much, either...

About the symbolism: it has its conclusiveness for sure yet I must also say that I'm personally not attracted to it to such an extent as to check it out further; maybe its my own predilection only- one cant know everything in one life after all. apart from that: I think it doesnt make a good impression to bash Naomi now that shes gone...its true, she made an offensive post, yet it was also a carricature (and every carricature works like this: it takes one grain of truth and exaggerates it gigantically, blows it up into comical and cosmical dimensions...and based on my experience only (points 1, 2 supra)-I can only say that it wasnt completely unfounded either...) I'd only say: relax, guys its not the end of the world...and let us enjoy the discussion between yourselves, then: I will be an avid reader...(if I have time to spare ;)), and: good fortune to all of you.

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

Hey gang, check out this I found scrolling through Jon Depew's website.http://www.coralcastlecode.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.coralcastlecode.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/abracadabra.jpg&target=tlx_new

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Aleister Crowley and the Freemasons (http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/aqc/crowley.html)

[frater luciferi]

anyone who is a subscriber to the OTO system and in some degree crowelyanity or has any minute interest in the history of the man should know that the FIRST thing that crowely accomplished magickally was complete his 33rd degree in masonry. he was eventually kicked out of the masons for being involved in the golden dawn and then after that wandered east to pretty much spend his massive inheritance on learning amongst other things the tao te ching and yoga, tantric philosophys and such.

[m1thr0s]

yeah...seems like attaining the 33rd degree has been the ruin of many promising poets...lol...

must be something in the sacramental wine...

m1thr0s

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

There is much mystery surrounding the 33rd degree. Being a 32nd myself, the 33rd is always at the back of one's mind. I know several 33rd masons and half of them have no clue. I've questioned the OTO several times internally. There is an OTO temple in Indianapolis, IN, about 2 hours from here. I've often thought of visiting. Crowley's footprint is very evident there for sure.

[fr.novumorganum]

well aware of crowley's masonic attainments; one thing to consider, many masonic bodies consider the OTO a heretic body and do not allow cross membership. many of my brothers have to use the power of the sphynx about their oto membership to avoid getting kicked out of the NJ/NYC masons.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

My local lodge (http://www.northwalesmasons.com/) asks the following questions to those considering joining:

Do you believe that there is such a thing as honour and that a man has a responsibility to act with honour in everything he does?
Yes, but I'm tempted to see this on a practical level as one of my faults

Do you believe in God?
Sometimes. Depends what paradigm Im employing. Is that a 'Yes'?

Are you willing to allow others the same right to their beliefs that you insist on yourself?
Yes

Do you believe that you have a responsibility to leave the world a better place that you found it?
Within reason. I'm not too keen on the word 'responsibility' here though.

Do you believe that it is not only more blessed to give than to receive?
Not only? Heh?

Are you willing to give help to your Brothers when they need it, and to accept their help when you need it?
Yes

Do you believe there is more to life than just financial success?
Yes (I better had)

Do you believe that a person should strive to be a good citizen and that we have a moral duty to be true to the country in which we live?
No, certainly not

Do you agree that man should show compassion to others, that goodness of heart is among the most important of human values?
Within reason...yes

Do you believe that men should strive to live a brotherly life?
Yes

[m1thr0s]

geez...I would be a little confused as to whether I had applied to the Masonic Lodge or to be a Red Cross volunteer based on that stuff...

I must just be a natural loner or something...that all seems painfully trivial to me.

m1thr0s

[deviadah]

Do you believe that a person should strive to be a good citizen and that we have a moral duty to be true to the country in which we live?

These questions are very similar in most lodges, and the one above I have quoted have always been the one I have had the biggest problem with. I would have to lie in order to join a lodge, because I do not have respect for authority and state - regardless of where it is. Also there are Masonic Lodges in countries that could be - even for a normal person - a bit fascist.

I understand that there is reason for this since the Masons don't want to be singled out as anarchists and have their lodges shut down (it has happened in the past and I guess they have learned something from this, which could be the reason behind this question). But I feel it would be better, and more free, if they instead asked: Do you believe that a person should strive to be a good person, and not endanger the lodge in any sort of way due to personal beliefs?

[Kuroyagi]

geez...I would be a little confused as to whether I had applied to the Masonic Lodge or to be a Red Cross volunteer based on that stuff...

I must just be a natural loner or something...that all seems painfully trivial to me.

m1thr0s
:yes: hey friend, all I say is: new mutations. ;)

[Ainsloch]

all this masonry talk is tempting me to crack open my copy of morals and dogma. can anyone here recommend any other good masonic books?

"The Lost Keys of Freemasonry" by Manly P Hall is a riveting read, full of wisdom. Anything by Hall is worth reading, generally.

"The Beginnings of Masonry" by Frank Higgins is also a good read, and can be downloaded for free from the net.

Personally I found "Morals and Dogma" by Pike to be hard work, a bit laborious, though I derived occasional nuggets here and there from it. I found Manly P Hall's style of writing much more accessible and rewarding however.

[Marcel]

One thing to distinguish between is Masonry and Masonry.
In reality there is not "one" Masonry but several.

First, no one has ever been kicked out of Masonry for being in the Golden Dawn.
As a mattter of fact all founders and almost all (original) members of the GD where Masons.
HOOGD itself is however not a Masonic body.

O.T.O. was based on the Masonic "Antient and Accepted Rite of Memphis and Misraim". Most original pre Thelema members where Masons there too.
It is however no longer Masonic at all exept that some degrees still have "Mephis / Misraim" names (Those of the Scottish Rite here will recognize them).

It is not at all uncommon for GD or O.T.O. members to also be Masons.



The Grand Lodge of England (UGLE) is one part of Masonry that sometimes is referred to as "Mainstream" (together with the Grand Lodge of Scotland, Grand Lodge of Ireland, Most American Grand Lodges and Prince Hall Grand Lodges.

This type of Masonry is all male exept in special Orders such as Jobs doughters or Order of the Eastern Star (refered to as apendant bodies).

This is the largest version in English speaking countries.

The Grand Orient of France (GOdF) is another wich is dominant in Latin speaking countries. It differs in that one can be an atheist and still become a Mason.

There is a number of Grand Lodges and Orients that recognize or dont recognize each other. Another word frequently used is to be in amity.

When it comes to Crowley he was a member of a Grand Lodge considered irregular by UGLE (thus not recognised). Thus most American GL:s would say he was not a Mason while many European and Latin American would say he was.

When it comes to women there are juristictions (Grand Lodges) that are all female Blue Lodge Masons and there are also juristictions that are Co Masonic.
This is a very French thing starting with Maria Deraismes being Initiated and raised.

An all female Order is "The Order of Women Freemasons" wich does exactly what "Malecraft" does, but exlusively for women.

One of the bigger co Masonic orders is "Le Droit Humain" wich is international.
It works both York Rite and Scottish Rite in one organisation and regards both sexes as equal. Religion, politics, race, sexual preference are of no consequence in LDH.
They are usually a bit more Mystical in their aproach to masonry.

Another such Order is The Honorable Order of American Co- Masonry.

There are many others as well. Often they are distinguished by the words Regular (UGLE and co) or Liberal (GOdF and co + others).
Naturally though, all juristictions think of themselves as "regular" and neither need or want anybody elses approval.

In some cases whole groups of GL:S has gone together in international organizations such as:
Clipsas (Centre of Liaison and Information of Masonic Powers Signatories of Strasbourg Appeal).

International Masonic Union Catena.

The International Secretariat of the Masonic Adogmatic Powers (ISMAP) (French: Secrétariat international Maçonnique of the Puissances Adogmatiques (SIMPA).

Here in Sweden the main Masonic juristiction is the Swedish Grand Lodge (working the Swedish Rite. In amity and recognition with UGLE.

Le Droit Humain Scandinavian Federation (Working the Scottish Rite).

And a Spanish speaking Grand Orient for Latin American immigrants in amity and recognition with GOdF.

The Swedish Rite (regardless of country / Grand Lodge) demands that applicants are Christian (i´m Thelemite). Besides, the adogmatic attitude simply means Le Droit Humain is more my thing.

[Anibis]

Wow, thanks for the really informative post. It opens up somthing to me, I think. Great to have you on board the forums Marcel! It seems the Scandinavians are taking over, Lol!
-Anibis

[deviadah]

The Swedish Rite (regardless of country / Grand Lodge) demands that applicants are Christian (i´m Thelemite). Besides, the adogmatic attitude simply means Le Droit Humain is more my thing.

Isn't the Scottish Rite 33 degrees and the Swedish 10? I know that Denmark use the Swedish Rite. And I think it was constructed by Swedenborg, but not sure?

So I don't know if the above are more information or more questions...

:confused:

It seems the Scandinavians are taking over...
Seems that there is a dominant occult core in the northern parts of the globe (Canada, Seattle Area, Scandinavia)... perhaps it's because the brain is like a computer; it works better in a chilled atmosphere?!

[Anibis]

But that doesn't explain India!
-Anibis

[deviadah]

No it doesn't really... :o_O:

Oh well, perhaps is just a coincidence then (although I don't believe in such things).

:cool:

But it could explain, though, that the northern part of the world have a greater number of computers per capita... if the whole world was equally wealthy this forum would probably be occupied mainly by witches from the jungles of the Africa!

[MythMath]

We definitely have room for more African witches in here... :yes:

[Anibis]

Well I think it reflects the more Hermetic/Masonic demographic here. I mean there are almost no users from China here, only a few from India, and yet many folk interested in both Chinese and Indian Mysticism, via a hermetic lense. I think that it would make sense to say that the Heremetic tradition seems to be particularly strong in the northern climes, perhaps. I don't know if that is true, but I think that that is the most likely conclusion to follow from the given premises. And yes, It would be great to see some African shamans on board here! Not to mention Shamans of any stripe, but I'm not sure to what degree the tribal world and the internet cross at the moment. Generally speaking the internet is used by the more monied societies... ie, the North!
-Anibis
P.S. I think Newfoundland/Vinland qualifies as something a little different than mainland North America: maybe a bit closer to the 'scandinavian hub'!
P.S. I think that Marcel did a marvelous job of showing just how diffuse the legacy of masonic ritualism is, and I am currently following all sorts of new mental connections as a result. Good show!

[theocculture]

I was introduced to occultism by a 33rd degree mason and AMORC member. One of the nicest and wisest men I have ever met. I myself am not inclined to pay the dues in either just yet but if I ever find myself bogged down with disposable income I will be sure to join them both.
Dreaming of losing teeth is said by some to predict a death of someone close to you. I know I am pretty late in posting that last bit but if it was on the spot I am sure you would remember.

[Darkwater]

I am having re-occuring dreams of becomming a mason... Also in visions... It is strange. I do not subsribe to the ideals of this instution, nor do I suppose it accords to well with what i have always supposed; that the 'temple' and the 'star' are irreconcilable opposites... What, I wonder would happen if I did become a mason... I have always taken them to be Osirian in the extreme, and yet, as I have become more maatian in character I guess that matters less and less; Pan Aeon, as it were... So, what do ya think, would this Ibis make a good mason? I think I would... I suspect I already 'know' whatever secrets they have... but there may be better reasons for joining...
-Ibisis
Are there any masons on this board? What are your thoughts? Is Masonry at the end of the day a 'good' thing, or is it not?


Anibis,

Freemasonry maps your journey from the Void unto GOAT and as such is compatible with ALL Pantheonics of ALL TIME!


There are only 3 degrees in freemasonry,all the rest is heavy philosophical stuff.

All I know of Crowley was that he was adrug addict Jerk off I never had the pleasure of sticking the nut on.

It is a good thing,the greatest thing a young man could ever join upon attaining the age of 18 or 21.

Just watch out if you have alcoholic tendancies by nature or notice that you begin to develope these?lolz

Namaste

Andy

[Anibis]

I like 'Heavy Philosophical Stuff'. Crowley wasn't quite that 2 Dimensional. I am currently working the Second Degree and have mason dreams just about every night. My initial impression of Masonry were corrected through actually getting into it. I do NOT wish to know ANYTHING at all about the 3rd degree etc, as I will recieve it in the Spring in our new Hall, and would like to be suprised. What do you mean Alcoholism? Do you think that Masonry and alcohol have an affinity (or some other relationship) with one another? Actually of all the drugs in the world, Alcohol and I seem to be the best match... Anyhow, that was quite an old post... Now, I'm off to a Lodge Inauguration/Consecration....
L8r
-A-

[Marcel]

Congatulations Anibis.
I do admit of envying you.

Deviadah, you are quite right, the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite has 33 degrees and the Swedish Rite has 10.

There are other Rites worked in Denmark thogh (not necessarily recognizing each other).

Le Droit Humain is present in Denmark and my guess would be that they work the Scottish Rite.

The York Rite is however also found within the LDH.
They are also a bit unique in that one organisation confers all the 33 degrees as opose to most Masonry that has different organisations giving groups of degrees of wich they are in charge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Droit_Humain

http://www.droit-humain.org/

The co-Masonic Free and Inipendent Masosons work the Ritus Hauniensis.
The Hauniensis Rite was written by the Danish Grunddal Sjallung around 1929.
He was also high within the O.T.O.


Danish, Free and Independent Masons (http://www.dfum.dk/)
It should be said however, like stated above, that there is no degree above that of Master in Masonry (3rd degree).

All the bodies of Masonry confering degrees in addition are appendant.
The degrees are "side degrees" rather than "higher degrees" reagardless of what might be said.

Scottish Rite:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Rite

York Rite:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Rite

Ancient and Primitive Rite:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rite_of_Memphis

Rite of Memphis- Misraim:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rite_of_Memphis-Misraim

Swedish Rite:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Rite

There has been some other Rites and what is sometimes referred to as "fringe Masonry" too, including the Swedenborgian Rite, the Sat Bai Rite and so on. There is no evidence that Swedenborg himself was ever a Mason though.

The O.T.O. before Crowley made it more Thelemic was built on the Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis- Misraim (you can see it around the lamen still).

[Darkwater]

Cool Anibis!

I think I went to one consecration,I have been to a few re-dedications which happen every hundred years which are great.

I notice that the question of lady masons arises in this thread.

What sort of Lady would want to join a bunch of hairy ar**d guys for the serious business of Freemasonry?It is bad enough with the alcohol & brotherly love(not to be confused with brotherly intercourse imho).The red orders including the Eastern Star are excellent orders.

I have some top jokes for your harmony.

Like the woman whose husband joins & she pesters him for masonic secrets.He just tells her that at his pasing & raising he was taught caution with all words & signs blah blah.

She persists,so after a few hours he finally relents & says "ok,lift your skirt,drop your pants & bend over the kitchen table."

She curiously duly obliges,so he drops his trousers,leans over her & whispers"as previously explained,I am unable to improperly reveal any secrets of freemasonry,but here is a pr*ck to the flesh in the meantime"

Eh,you travelled in from void & rode GOAT in yer first,m8.

Ask your proposer & 2nder.

All the very best,

Andy

[Anibis]

Ugh, lame joke. I did hear mention of the Goat, and of course I am perfectly fluent in Hermetic Qabalah/Tarot, so what you say is not without meaning to me, but I am definitely curious to see what the Masonic take on it is, which I imagine will become clear once I have hit the third degree. I love suprises, and as such I have done my best to not know what the ritual is like or what it's contents are. All that being said, I am pretty good at understanding and feeling the symbols as I encounter them. Good Stuff.
-A-

[Darkwater]

Heh heh,I have since found the "jokes" thread(wear anything you want,its just gonna be me & you lolz) which I will use in the future.

My dad explained GOAT to me,right after my first.

In Scotland you are advised not to wear a good shirt,as they have been known to get ripped,bloodstained & minus a few buttons.bwahahahahahaha.

me"ffs" them"WE ALL BEEN THROUGH IT"

I trust you have been advised to take the following day off work & not to plan to drive anywhere for the next 2 days?

I used to be one of the "Jolly Boys"aka the roughset saw gang who toured England & Europe doing only 3 degrees.

In Brighton,England the brethern paid £50 a head to watch an elite band of big bad Scottish psychopathic sociopaths beat the crap out of a local volunteer"in due & ancient form" for an exemplification/mock 3rd.The Masonic Hall was one of the finest I have been in,one off of Royalty.

Maybe my finest Masonic moment was at the Masonic Homes for war veterans at Erskine,where my lodge performed an exemplification of the 3 rd before WW1,WW2,Korea & Falklands Vets.

Looking great in my DJ,wing ding & black tie,my heart sank when I was informed I was the fellowcraft for the day,but they would go easy on me.

I loved that wing-ding,still miss it.

I have a better joke for your 3rd harmony,it is a bit risque however?

Love & Light,

Andy

Here is my favourite non-masonic,masonic link.http://www.womanthouartgod.com/wmbondfreemasonry.php

From this we can deduce that the Universe is Womb shaped,of divine proportions.As the Egyptians proved they knew by Pyramid architecture.

ps,Your Masonic dreams interest me,my son is having a kinda one even when lucid,Egyptian setting involving 3rd degree stuff so I can't talk about it.I'd love to hear a description of your dreams,m8>

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

I participated in my first Master Mason degree as the Chaplain tonight! It was very rewarding and a bit strange giving invocations for the evening. It made me wonder what Chaplains were like centuries ago? I'm going to have to reflect on this for a while.

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

Ugh, lame joke. I did hear mention of the Goat, and of course I am perfectly fluent in Hermetic Qabalah/Tarot, so what you say is not without meaning to me, but I am definitely curious to see what the Masonic take on it is, which I imagine will become clear once I have hit the third degree. I love suprises, and as such I have done my best to not know what the ritual is like or what it's contents are. All that being said, I am pretty good at understanding and feeling the symbols as I encounter them. Good Stuff.
-A-


Anibis...

I think you will find that every time you see or participate in a degree after you are a MM, you will continue to learn new things. I have at least. I'm only going on a year in my lodge but am very active. The more I participate, the more is revealed to me.

[Anibis]

Yeah, the first three are the three interpretive 'tiers' by which the whole array of symbolism can be read. I actually get alot out of watching it in action already, and I'm still only a fellowcraft... I expect the MM degree with provide the missing piece of the puzzle, as it were... I don't think they go all the way with the beatings around here. As embarrasing as it is, I think there are insurance issues, lol... I wouldn't mind though. as GWB once said, "bring it on!"
-Anibis

[MythMath]

Dude, you want some more W quotes...?

I'm kinda amazed he pulled off 'bring it on'...

YouTube - President Bush -- Fool me Once

[deviadah]

So even if there is a Lodge with 10 degrees or 33 degrees, there is only 3?

So what does it then mean when someone says: John Doe is a 23 degree mason? Or Manly P. Hall is a 33 degree mason?

:o_O:

[Anibis]

There are three primary "blue lodge" degrees, and the others come after that, and depending on whether you are going via Scottish or York Rite....
-A-

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

Exactly. I am a 32nd degree mason, scottish rite. The first three degrees of the blue lodge, 1-3, are the primary and only degrees required to be a Master Mason. Any higher degrees are pretty much deeper teachings on the three BLue Lodge degrees. York rite comprises degrees 4-10 and Scottish Rite is 4-32. The 33rd degree is an honorary degree in which one is invited into or bestowed upon. In the USA the structure is:

723

[deviadah]

I know all this, the only reason I asked was because it has been said that there is only 3 degrees! So I just wondered what they mean by this!

:cool:

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

Are you clear then that there are only 3 degrees to be a Master Mason? All the rest is extra.

[deviadah]

Ah, ok I get it now...

So it's going from 1 to 3 that might take some time... the rest is just for laughs/glory etc!

:cool:

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

Well, it takes a lifetime probably, however, there are two different ways to get your degrees here in Indiana. The first is the traditional way by which each degree is presented in due form and then there is a period of time for memorization of the proficiency work for each degree. The time that takes is entirely at the discretion of the candidate. In our lodge, we offer the three degrees each on a Wednesday every month. There isn't always a candidate for each degree so they often get subsequently canceld. I think the average for the three degrees is three months.

You may also attend a one day class here in Indiana at which there are numerous candidates and one is selected to represent the rest. All three degrees are done in one day and each candidate has a sponsor who conducts the obligations for each degree with their respective candidates. At the end of the day, all are Master Masons, and must complete their proficiency by attending each degree two more times. I think this last part is different for each jurisdiction.

For the remaining degrees up to 32, they also are sometimes offered in a one day class or two day class. There is no memory work for the other degrees beyond the Master Mason. The 33rd degree is the one that takes the most time as it is by invitation or selection only and comes down from the National lodge. I've seen Masons as young as 40 getting this degree but many are older when they receive it. Not being a 33rd, I can't coment much about it and I don't know what it entails or what is expected of you once you've attained that degree.

[Darkwater]

Hi Catalytic Subterfuge,

Congratulations on mastering the blessing,still a spine tingling moment to hear it before making your stay short.very short,lolz

I will try & make bigger your chart which will give me greater understanding of the system.

I am a 3 degree"snob",the mark is very worthwhile (MW)though.We also do a mad kinda naval degree called the cork which I have never particularly bothered with.I am also very well impressed with your organisation.Only during the great wars last century & in the years after did my lodge put so many candidatessometimes dozens in one night,some receiving 3 degrees in one night during wartime.
Anyway,my main point is that some are of the view that all should be revealed.

I don't know if you are aware,but there are places in the world you go to get a special degree.

One I know of is only delivered on an Island off of Greece,where all the inhabitants of the Island are monks.Only they deliver this degree,as far as I am aware.There are other Monasteries through Europe which specialise in other degree's.

This Greek one is very special & like I say,a man who wants everything to be revealed for selfish reasons as it may preserve the life of his son.

If you like I would be delighted to pm you with the details.It is one of the highest ranks not many will ever hear of,let alone get near being installed.

Hey Anibis,I like your style.Remeber to take along with you as many quarters,dimes & pennies as you can. to the meeting.heh heh.

Namaste

Andy

[Anibis]

This Greek one is very special & like I say,a man who wants everything to be revealed for selfish reasons as it may preserve the life of his son.


Once I am qualified, I would love to hear more of this. I have much traveling in my future I'm a pilgrim by nature.


Hey Anibis,I like your style.Remeber to take along with you as many quarters,dimes & pennies as you can. to the meeting.heh heh.

Namaste

Andy

I usually give most of my change to the street folk. I believe it's important to make with this world's survivors... And of course, I bring Benevolence to the lodge... ;)
-Anibis

[Anibis]

Here's a good thread (barbelith.com/topic/19541) on Barbelith.
-Anibis

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Attached is a photo of the lodge in Bangor, Gwynedd.

There's something very Harry-Potterish about this place:

It's on the city's central main road. It stands apart. So after passing on countless occasions over the years since childhood, you'd have thought that I'd have at least noticed the bloody thing. When somebody told me where it was, I kept an eye out for it (all outgoing westbound and incoming eastbound bus services pass it, and it's between the train station and the commercial centre of the city). There it was, as large as life, and as far as I could consciously recall I'd never seen the place before.

By chance (because I keep forgetting about the place's existence) I took a photo of the place with my cellphone in August as I left Bangor by bus.

A week or so ago I was looking through the photos on my cellphone and came across the pic. It took me nearly five minutes to remember just what the fuck it was.

It made me laugh because it reminded me of Number 12, Grimmauld Place (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_Twelve%2C_Grimmauld_Place#Number_12.2C_Grim mauld_Place)

[MythMath]

Found this surfing:

http://www.redicecreations.com/winterwonderland/rotated-mason-symbol2.jpg

...I recently bought a masonic ring...
but noticed when i had it on that while a person looking at the ring would see the square and compass,
the person wearing the ring sees something else, he sees a person standing in front of a pyramid with his
arms open in a worshiping pose. I have attached a picture of such a ring in the way you should see it too.
The G would be the head in relation to the "worshiping man" if you cannot see it straight away.
hope you find this interesting as i did.

Source: Rotated Masonic Symbolism (http://www.redicecreations.com/searching.html)

[MythMath]

womenmasons (http://www.geocities.com/womenmasons/)

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

MM

As much as I agree with the Womenmasons article and justification, there is also the component of the organization being a fraternal one, and to not include women in that structure today is more likely due to a need for men to have an organization of their own. Women are included albeit not on the same level. There are many Masons, myself included, whom hold women in extraordinary regard. There is an underlying realization that behind every great man is a better woman.

Just had to throw my $0.02 in after reading the website you posted. Also, there are lodges in Europe that do include women.

[Neshamah]

The ring thing is pretty interesting. I've looked at my grandfather's ring a few dozen time and never noticed it. :)

The thing about the Asherah Pillar being the Third Pillar really interested me, though. Have any of you thought about that much? It sort of makes a sort of sense if you think about it...

Light, Life, and Love.

Neshamah

[Wolfman]

Here's a reeeal newbie question - or two:

What do Masons actually 'Get' out of it. Is it just a sense of brotherhood, or business connections or something like that?

Just wondering. I have a buddy in England who joined in order to enhance his networking in the film biz over there, yet he tells me lodge meetings consist mostly of dusty old-timers who mainly bitch about their wives...

Maybe its just his lodge, but that doesn't sound too fun....or terribly mysterious.

I've been a member of a Greek letter Fraternity since I was in my college years, but the purpose of that has always been social networking and mutual support.

I'm also a member of another,less public society, but again its a brotherhood, and mutual support kind of thing.

Secondly, I really don't get this thing where people have a problem with men's only or women's only societies. Sometimes the ladies want to get together AWAY from men and vice versa. What's wrong with sisterhoods and brotherhoods exclusive one one another? One society i belong to has been around since the 1930's and has never admitted women - never will. I have friends involved in sororities where the idea is the same - they will NEVER admit men. Good for them for sticking with their traditions.

People really have to get as inoculated as they can against the disease known as political correctness. Traditions are there for a reason - they need to be left alone.

Anyway, thanks for reading/listening ;)

Wolfman

[deviadah]

What do Masons actually 'Get' out of it.
Some people need the company of others, whilst others need not the company of a single being!

Some lead, some follow...

Masons follow!

:cool:

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

I am a mason and I lead! As far as what masons do....I think some reading on the subject in Manley P. Hall tells alot. You will find writing saying all kinds of thing about masonry. It is a fraternity, it is a place to learn, it is brotherhood, it is enlightenment, it is many things. For me, I think you get out of it what you put in.

[deviadah]

I am a mason and I lead!
What I meant was that all Masons share something otherwise there would not be a point to gather/belong. Whatever it is that attracts is what is followed - be it a God or a Theory.

One is not better than the other...

:cool:

[MythMath]

Found it again:

http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/specul05.jpg


(http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/freemasons_square_compasses.html)SPECULATION ON THE SYMBOL OF THE SQUARE AND COMPASSES. (http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/freemasons_magic_square.html)

FURTHER SPECULATION (http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/freemasons_square_compasses.html)


http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/magic_square3.jpg