PDA

View Full Version : Kundalini & Subtle Body theory


Amur
02-14-2007, 10:25 AM
Channeled information from Shrii Shrii Anandamurti:

Subtle Body Theory

November 1997


So that brings us to our next topic which is subtle body theory. Now
I have spoken about this previously, so I will not go into the same
subjects which were covered at that time. But I will continue on with
explanation regarding the kun'd'alinii which Pankaj seems to feel is a most
mysterious substance. [laughter]
The kulakun'd'alinii lies coiled at the base of the spine. It is the
primordial force of this universe. The Shakti, Citishakti, the power of
Lord Shiva is bound in the material universe and in advanced vertebrates it
is present as kun'd'alinii. And in the human structure, since all of the
kos'as are present, all the stratums of the mind are there, and so there is
the capability for the liberation of consciousness from its bindings within
the material universe. Unit existence is present because mind is bound in
and with matter. In a vertebrate structure, there is the presence of the
neurological and subtle body capacities for the liberation of Citishakti
from its bound position. So kun'd'alinii is bound in three coils, and she
must be freed in order to traverse the journey to Param Shiva. And in
svayambhu'liunga, the fundamental negativity, meaning - what? What is the
fundamental negativity? What is on the opposite, you know Brahmacakra?
[solid factor] Solid factor, material universe. So she is bound, she is in
her aspect. Param Shiva is in the aspect of fundamental negativity bound in
the material universe, bound in matter, bound in body, embodied.
Now that does not mean that unit consciousness resides in mula'dha'ra
cakra. It means that Param Shiva is bound in an embodied state in the
material universe. So this is svayambhu'liunga. And kulakun'd'alinii must
pierce through this granthi - granthi means what? [knot] knot - must pierce
the granthi and come up to another stratum away from, apart from the
material universe. So the first granthi lies at the head of
svayambhu'liunga and is a constriction of the psychic world. When
kulakun'd'alinii is awakened by the call of Parama Shiva, it will pierce
this granthi, open, and begin to rise upward through Brahma na'd'ii. If
there are many desires left in the mind of a person, the force, the mighty
force which rises upward will spring a few leaks through these vrttis, and
does it leaks out through the vrttis, the vrttis may become very activated.
A person may feel extreme fear, extreme rage, extreme sexual feelings,
maddening jealousy, complete self doubt, overwhelming happiness, ecstatic
joy. They may bark like a dog, nay like a horse, strut like a peacock. They
have leaks. They have a leaky kun'd'alinii. [laughter]
So they need a plumber, yes, to fix the leaks and that is why they
should have a Guru. Without Guru to say, "Hey come. Do some a'sanas. Do
some pra'n'a'ya'ma. Look here, this is the way," a person may get very
confused and they may have quite some difficulty. There are people who
spontaneously awaken kun'd'alinii, it happens. In fact it happens quite
frequently, and they will be having an intimate situation, or out in
nature, or they have attended some yoga classes, hatha yoga, some
pranayamas, it was very invigorating. Next week, they are lying on the
beach and suddenly things are quite abnormal. Perhaps they are just doing
an ordinary task and [Ba'ba' clicks the fingers] like that they are
overcome by a state. And after that they may experience so many problems:
heat in the body, rushings of energies up and down the spine, all of the
pra'n'as, the va'yus may become imbalanced.
You see, the problem is, if kulakun'd'alinii begins to rise and the
physical body is not prepared and the energy will sprout up, it will leak
through the vrttis, this means when it sprouts up there is Brahma na'd'ii
and surrounding Brahma na'd'ii is citrani na'd'ii, surrounding that is
vajra na'd'ii. Citrani na'd'ii has the basic vibrations of the elements,
the kos'as. Surrounding that is vajra na'd'ii which has the propensities of
mind. So as this force moves upwards, this force of Shakti carrying - as if
you imagine a fountain, like a geyser, like Old Faithful, right - and it
comes up. And what is on the top of the geyser being nicely carried? It is
the a'tman, the consciousness, jiiva'tman is on the top of the geyser being
nicely carried upward. This is conscious awareness, the cognitive function,
the consciousness, awareness of the living being, the jiiva'tman which has
been associated with mind locked into material existence, material world.
It is stuck in bhu'rloka. But kulakun'd'alinii, she became active and
pierced the granthi, and she should shots like a geyser upwards carrying on
top of her jiiva'tman. And she is Shakti, she has the force of creation,
she pushes upwards.
And with all of the shakti activated, if the kos'as and the elements
have various, what would I call, impurities - the person eats only
unsentient foods, watches the TV, orders the pizza every night, pepperoni
pizza every night, sits in front of the TV, exercises to go get the beer
from the refrigerator - then there may be some problem. In citrani na'd'ii
there will be a kind of a clouding, element will not be crisp, pure in
wave. It will be a little clouded. I do not know how to say. And as this
energy enlivens, vibrates, it goes up, it vibrates out, and then into vajra
na'd'ii, the backwash may go out. If the person is very singular in their
ideation, if their longing for the Great is extreme, if they exercise and
take good care for the body, eats sentient foods so that the frequency of
the body is not misaligned with the frequency of the subtle realms coming
into embodiment in that body, then more than likely kun'd'a'linii will rise
up without a lot of spread. But if there is sluggishness in the physical
structure - tamogun'a is too dominant - and kun'd'alinii cannot rise in a
clear fashion, it will, if the citrani na'd'ii is constrictive around the
Brahma na'd'ii, cannot go, it will spread into the vrttis, out through
citrani na'd'ii into vajra na'd'ii and the vrttis.
And with this activation of citrani na'd'ii and vajra na'd'ii, so
many different jerks and movements and sounds and difficulties, and
suddenly the person has a bowel problem and they have very bad pain in the
lower back and they have so many problems. Many problems may arise. And the
body may become quite sick if the opening is very dramatic and the body is
very unprepared, it is not subtle, sufficiently subtle for the
consciousness, the stratum of consciousness which is activated. They will
lose psycho-physical parallelism. In these cases it is very important that
parallelism is brought back as soon as possible.
There are those who advise eat the meat, crudify the mind so that
there is parallelism. But I think this is a backward approach. Better to
make the body more subtle and attain parallelism in this way. So in these
cases the person may experience fear, because there is a sense of danger to
the body. The body experiences the danger, and so the person becomes
afraid. In such a case you must reassure them. And then you must also give
them practical solutions to their problems, helping them to integrate their
consciousness with their physiological structure and their psychological
structure, or material mind. So you will want to have them do things to
make the body feels safe, to balance the doshas in the body. Frequently the
person will be needing to have some nice oils and nice massage, to do
physical work with the physical body to bring the energies into the body,
to make the body strong, to do a'sanas, and to eat a sentient diet.
And on this point you may get some resistance. And if they are
smoking cigars and drinking alcohol, if the experience is minimal, perhaps
they will be alright. But if this experience they are having is dramatic,
they must stop all these habits, otherwise they may lose parallelism and it
is quite dangerous. The yogic diet, yogic life style is designed to make
the body subtle so that it may contain the intuitional waves of the Cosmic
Mind. So, in this way, mind becomes concentrated and if person takes
devotional approach, they can experience the presence of Parama Purus'a in
a devotional stance, then many problems will be solved.

Q: Ba'ba', if there is no leaks, still is it possible that spiritual energy
leaks through, going to the na'd'iis and to the different parts of the body
so instead of feeling back pain or bowel things, it will be beneficial to
the organs and through the body and the person will have a healing kind of
experience?

The energies will go throughout the physical structure. It is only
that they will go out throughout the subtle structure and the physical
structure. The problems comes because they are at the certain frequency,
sattva, and the structure is dominated by rajas or tamas, then there will
be clash. They don't go together and one burns through the other, and that
is why physical and psychic symptoms occur. But if there is a harmony of
vibratory frequency, then . . .

[end of tape 16]

E.1.K.03.31.98
[tape 17]


. . . brings healing to you rather than pain. Have you noticed? But
if there is some incompatibility of vibration between this shakti, this
subtle flow of divine nectar, mind and body, then there will be some
manifestation of this distortion. It will rise to the surface. sam'ska'ra
is matured through this process, is it not? So another way to put it is
that the sam'ska'ra will be matured. That is to say the blockage in the
mind, in the body will rise to the surface and a problem will be there. But
if there is no blockage, if the subtle channels, the na'd'iis and the nerve
fibers are all clean and pure and able to vibrate with the sweet frequency
of sattvagun'a, then the sweet bliss will emanate through the body and you
will feel invigorated, like taking a very lovely warm bath. You will feel
that your body is completely pure, like a pristine temple, and bliss will
emanate through the body.

Q: What is the most effective way to purify the channels?

It is sentient diet, do a'sanas, do service work, and cultivate
devotion. These are the best approaches. Do we incorporate this in our
sa'dhana'?

Q: Fasting also?

Fasting is beneficial as well, but in moderation.

Q: For years, many of us have felt that sensations in cakras without
corresponding deep experiences of ecstasy and have wondered if the
kun'd'alinii force can be experienced in cakras without its full rising?

Yes. It is not kun'd'alinii, it is merely the vibrating. There are
many experiences apart from kun'd'alinii. The cakra itself may be
stimulated, the pra'n'endriya may be affected, the na'd'iis may be
stimulated. So there are many different types of experiences. When
kun'd'alinii rises, many people experience sensations up the spine. There
are those people who experience no sensation at all, they just experience
the mystical states of the arousal without any physiological symptoms
because they do not have those types of difficulties. Because, in fact,
through the arousal of kulakun'd'alinii, what do you want? You want the
transmutation of consciousness, do you not? You want that you should feel
the divine flow of infinite love permeating your being and that your
individuality dissolves into the ocean of blessedness. Is this not what you
want? You do not want to go "Hmm" and feel the kulakun'd'alinii rising.
Like, "Today I will go to the carnival and ride the rides, round and round
and tomorrow I will sit for sa'dhana' and feel the kulakun'd'alinii
rising," - right? It is a joy ride. But the alteration of consciousness is
far more than a joy ride.

Q: Sometimes, if there is a leakage, that it opens up a gateway for
kun'd'alinii to come through . . .

The sam'ska'ras are matured. You see, if it is in a minor way, it is
very good, but if it is in a major way it can be a serious problem because
parallelism can be lost. But this is correct. sam'ska'ras are matured as
the kun'd'alinii rises, sam'ska'ras become ripened and they will come to
the surface. As they become matured and you work through the problem, you
make subtle what was crude. Of course there will be a clearing and then the
process will proceed all the more easily until you find that your whole
body feels subtle, pure, peaceful, your nerves are calm, your mind at ease,
you feel a sweet purity and fragrance of sweetness in your body. And then
you sit for sa'dhana' and do you have good sa'dhana'? Then you have good
sa'dhana'. Immediately the mind is focuses, immediately a sweet pure
feeling comes and permeates mind and body, and you may not even notice the
kulakun'd'alinii as she rises upwards. You just notice that a shower of
bliss descends upon you and you feel the grace of Parama Purus'a falling
upon you in endless waves of love. This is a proper rising of
kulakun'd'alinii.

Q: There are some healers that claim that they are purifying or opening the
cakras of others. What do you think about this?

I think there are many people who like to play with such things. Some
may do. But unless they themselves have opened these centers, they will
have a very hard time in opening them in others. Can you lead others where
you have not gone? It is not possible. But among those people there are
some who have experienced much, and indeed they can. But there are many who
like to go to the carnival and ride the rides.

Q: Could there be some danger if the person goes to a healer who is not
proficient but who claims to work with the cakras. Can there be any harm in
this?

I would not say it cannot happen. You know there are those who play
with energies and use them for many purposes. Avidya tantrics play with
these energies, black magicians play with these energies, do they not? But
they have certain purposes in mind. The intent of a person is exceedingly
important. There are those who are very pure souls, very subtle in their
own development due to their devotion to Parama Purus'a and they may do
very good healing. If you know of such people you know of what I speak.
They are devotional people, their devotion is very strong. And when they do
healing, they are selfless in what they do, they do not charge you $400 for
the initial consultation. They are not in the big business of healing, they
are doing for a different reason. There are those who serve in this way,
but there are others who have different motives or who are capitalists and
this is their business. Alright?

Q: Can you say something more about the granthis? What is it that is doing
the block?

Granthis are classically known as knots which constrict the na'd'iis
and prevent the rising upwards of the kulakun'd'alinii. These granthis are
located at the base of the spine, at the head of svayambhu'liunga is one
granthi, another is at ana'hata cakra, another is located at the throat
center and again at a'jina. They are constrictions caused by psycho-
physical barriers. These are glandular biochemical modulators of
consciousness relating to the pineal gland, the pituitary gland, the
thymus, and the sexual organs. If biochemistry is not adjusted, the
kulakun'd'alinii can not rise. It will be blocked and is blocked at each of
these points unless opened. Opening of granthi means the subtle body and
the crude body are both transmuted. When kulakun'd'alinii pierces the
ana'hata cakra, what happens? Bhakti develops. Do you feel sensation in the
heart? Do you feel the capacity to love? Do you feel all the barriers to
love break away, all of the pain, grief, sorrow? All of the limitations of
love must be dissolved, so there is a constriction of love, a constriction
of mind, isn't it? Your concepts of reality, your beliefs. "I know who I
am, I am a psychologist." "I am a business man." "I am a free spirit."
There are so many definitions in the mind, it is a barrier, a knot. The
mind is a knot of concepts, the heart is a knot of sentiments and the
sexual organs are a knot of desire. Do you see?

Q: If someone experiences kun'd'alinii coming up through the spine and
coming out a'jina cakra, does this mean that all the cakras below this have
opened?

This is a very good question. Kun'd'alinii may temporarily rise up, a
little spurt. That way it may get through the granthis without too much
trouble. It comes up in a very narrow column, a little spurt like a small
geyser so that it may get through the knots in the sentiments and the knots
in the mind and the knots in the passions. And it will come up and it may
pierce the cakra and some sama'dhi state will be there, kind of like on the
4th of July, the rocket is sent up and explodes in a beautiful light and
everyone goes "Ahhhh". But then it is gone. So then it does not precisely
go back down. It goes up in a spurt and then dissipates. But, it may rise
more fully, more completely, and then it may settle in different stratums
and you may not even know that your kulakun'd'alinii is quite awake at a
different stratum. You only know because you take that for granted. But
when it rises beyond a certain point, then there is distinct alteration of
consciousness. When the heart and the mind become unknotted.

Q: In Patanjali's sutras, it is said that sometimes you can get sparks and
spurts of kun'd'alinii flying up to ana'hata cakra and then you can see
different sights appear.

Yes, a'jina cakra, not ana'hata. There is reflection at different
stages. You may see something at different stages. But in the a'jina cakra
there is the appearance of saints and sages. But that does not mean that
kun'd'alinii has fully risen to a'jina cakra because if that were the case
and it were remaining there, the sense of "I"-ness would get dissolved, the
sense of separation, lost. But it may pierce upwards, move upwards. And it
will rise and fall, rise and fall until what? Until it crosses what? Guru
cakra. Then it is permanent. It will not go back down once it has passed
through this one way valve.

Q: Ba'ba', after this happens, one must enter a state of bliss, but is that
it? Is that the end?

Would you like to go somewhere else? If you come back into a physical
body, if the person, having crossed in a permanent way, not only attain
nirvikalpa sama'dhi and then kun'd'alinii goes again down to some stage,
but kulakun'd'alinii has fully risen with all of her full force, and
pierced Shrii, then if the body, mind, and if it is the will of Parama
Brahma that this entity should live in the world, then they will come again
into the physical body and they will take residence in hridayam. It is the
final abode. They will live in hridayam. So all of the saints and sages who
have raised the kulakun'd'alinii to its culminating home with Parama Shiva
reside in hridayam. Then kulakun'd'alinii finds her home base.

Q: Can someone with another belief system, who doesn't do meditation, and
whose diet isn't completely sentient and so on, if their longing for the
Supreme is really great, how does the process work for their liberation?
Does it still involve kun'd'alinii, or does Parama Purus'a pull them all
the way without their effort?

Do you know those of Christian religion who have great devotion? Do
you think their kulakun'd'alinii has risen? When the great saints of the
past have levitated off of the floor, do you think they have active
kulakun'd'alinii? It can happen anywhere.

Q: So liberation is a sure guarantee if we perform sa'dhana' twice a day?

There are many forms of sa'dhana'. So these people, in their
devotions, you know many of these saints and sages of different traditions,
if you look into their lives, you will see that they have done a great deal
of sa'dhana'. Maybe they have spent five years in silence in the monastery
doing devotional contemplation prayer. They have dedicated themselves,
body, mind and spirit in complete surrender to Parama Purus'a. Is that not
yoga?

Q: What about in Buddhist tradition where there is no concept of Parama
Purus'a.

What is the concept? You do not mean Vajra school, you mean Zen or .
. .

Q: In some schools isn't it atheistic?

I would not say that. Buddhism, in Mahayana and [Tarava?] and Vajra,
all have the concept of the enlightened state. In the development of the
schools in China and Japan, this conceptualization of enlightenment became
very abstract. There is no devotional element, but nonetheless it is there.
There is not the tendency to personalize, there is the tendency to conceive
of divinity as a void. But even in this, where awareness itself . . . you
see, in these schools they have attempted to simplify the philosophy and
simply state that awareness itself is the goal, to become self-aware. Is
there a difference? But the approach is different. The use of contemplation
is there, but as I have said some nights ago, the types of states which are
induced are different. The final culminating point will be the same, all
roads lead to one home, but it is conceived of by the mind with all its
beliefs with a different set of beliefs. And so there are a different set
of experiences . . . .

[side two]

Q: . . . many of us have felt a real different experience in our sa'dhana'
which has something to do with heart cakra, like the opening of heart cakra
which has changed our whole approach in our lives. Can you say something
about that?

Each opens their expression, their relationship to Divinity in their
own time, in their own way. Upon the departure of the physical guru, for
those who are devoted to him, a crisis occurs, and to that crises there
have been many different responses. One has been to become independent, to
try to go it alone so to speak, to try to find the path alone. Another has
been to attempt to preserve what was. Some have felt that guru is closer to
them, others have missed his physical presence a great deal. Some have felt
that now it is up to them to find a way, others have felt abandoned. There
are no right feelings, no wrong feelings, there are many feelings. You have
taken time to listen to your own feelings. These too will change, all
things change. All things change. Never is anything in this material
universe of a permanent nature, it is all relative. I think I have strayed
from this subject.

Q: Can psychedelic drugs like LSD stimulate the arousal of
kulakun'd'alinii?

Yes, most definitely. In one whose sam'ska'ras are there for this
arousal. It may release the sam'ska'ras. It is a dangerous path.

Q: Can you confirm what you have said that kun'd'alinii can rise in varying
degrees?

Yes, but for kun'd'alinii to rise there will be alteration in
consciousness. If there is no alteration in consciousness, then I do not
think kun'd'alinii is rising. A person may not experience bliss if they are
terrified of the alterations in consciousness. It may not necessarily be
bliss, but there will be alterations in consciousness.

Q: Is it possible for heart cakra to be open before other cakras are open?

No, not kun'd'alinii. Kun'd'alinii cannot skip over. It will just hop
from here to here and in the middle there is some void. No, it doesn't go
like this. But you can clarify the petals around the cakra. You can have a
great deal of purification of a center without the arousal of kun'd'alinii.

Q: What happened to me Ba'ba'?

Kun'd'alinii rose. It was kun'd'alinii, my son. Now you must work a
little bit to keep it there.

Alright, I think the time grows late. I like very much your bhajans.
Will you sing? Sudeva will be leaving. He must sing bhajans. Will you sing
bhajans?

Kain
02-14-2007, 04:35 PM
Most interesting Amur, thank you very much for sharing. I will have to look into this with greater focus. Skim reading it already gleaned some quite profound points though...

How exactly "channeled" information Amur?

Kain

Oblio
02-14-2007, 08:33 PM
They have a leaky kun'd'alinii.

:laugh:

That was fascinating, thanks Amur!

This is probably for another thread, but would anyone like to talk about the concept of samskara and karma?

From this article (and reflected in other stuff I've read), samskara is action based on learned/imprinted patterns from previous experiences (essentially conditioned response), which often form unconscious blockages of energy because we do things without realising their fundamental cause. The patterns of samskara are formed by karma - karma meaning the intent underlying an action. One goal (some say the true goal) of meditation and energy work is to transcend this cycle of karma and samskara formation and the patterns which they can lock us into.

I find that a lot of people hold to the idea of karma as some cosmic principle of balance, such that good and bad people will get what they deserve in the end. This seems absurd to me because the universe doesn't really give a rats as to what I do! I rather see karma/samskara as indicating that I am the source of my own happiness/unhappiness. And ultimately, any action with an intent to bridge the gap between is and should (regardless of whether there are so-called higher intentions there) produces conditioning forces.

I'd like to talk more about this last point, but I find that words fail me.. perhaps owing to the paradoxical nature of the topic itself... (how can we act without intent? go with the flow I guess... but then how do we reconcile this with living in a culture that does not support such modes of existence? I suppose it's a matter of living "in the moment" to the extent that is possible for us... /rambling thoughts)

m1thr0s
02-14-2007, 11:54 PM
I rather see karma/samskara as indicating that I am the source of my own happiness/unhappiness. And ultimately, any action with an intent to bridge the gap between is and should (regardless of whether there are so-called higher intentions there) produces conditioning forces.That is true I think, although happiness/unhappiness are less a part of karmic doctrine than freedom/bondage issues. The doctrine of Karma is profoundly important but it does have a few logical holes in it depending on whose rendition you go with. Personal liberation is not entirely rooted in personal action/inaction where a group dynamic is implicated in the restriction itself, and the doctrine of Karma has cowered in the face of this dilemma, creating an East-Indian version of the Just-World-Premise complicit in the whole Caste System, for instance. It has tended to reject the concept of Group Karma as an integrated part of Individual Karma, and this is a logical fallacy at the end of the day. But aside from this it is one of the most important principles to be found in eastern metaphysics I think.

m1thr0s

Oblio
02-15-2007, 12:26 AM
And in western philosophy I'd say.

It is at the heart of the question of free will/determination.

m1thr0s
02-15-2007, 12:37 AM
yes, self-determinism generally. It's a little hard to argue with cause & effect once those cards are laid out clearly. For 2000 years the whole strategy of the Holy Roman Church was simply to disallow them to be played at all as a matter of Heresy...something which has finally come to bite them in the ass just as the doctrine of cause & effect itself might have easily predicted...you can't deny the laws of nature without becoming something unnatural in the end.

m1thr0s

Kain
02-15-2007, 10:13 AM
Well, I made a new thread for it here (http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=1156).

Kain

Amur
02-15-2007, 02:08 PM
How exactly "channeled" information Amur?


Not sure if it's channeled or not, but there's alot of texts from him which are channeled. Anyone that is open in mind and heart can get a channeling link through his texts.

There's somewhere a place online with his channeled texts, I'll post the link when I get it.

imagenerator
03-19-2007, 02:03 AM
I am interested in continuing the discussion of Kundalini in the direction of Kundalini Yoga, particularly as codified by the 3H0 corporation. I've taken only a couple Kundalini Yoga classes, and I'm contemplating how involved I want to get; I'm both attracted and repeled by it at the same time. Attracted to it because I found it to be very efficient in waking up the subtle body. I had some pretty intense experiences with it; on one occasion I felt another being hovering overtop of my lying body and it almost violently pulled open my heart chakra.

Aside from the usual reservations encountered in healing (hitting block can really hurt ! ), there are some other problems I have with Kundalini Yoga. First of all, the whole school is somewhat of a cult. They all wear white and use sheep skin mats, and the instructors even wear turbans, as part of the belief system involved in the school stems from the Sikh faith. From my experience, the practitioners often wear rose-colored glasses, and I wonder if they style of yoga facilitates this. I sometimes think this is characteristic of the "New Age" movement, where the pridveledged middle-class love to believe that the only oppression is their own mind.

Secondly, 3H0 is quite aggressive in it's capitalistic endeavors. They way I see it, it really is first and foremost a business and not a school i.e. they're the producers of those "Yogi Teas" you may see around. Frankly, I don't really want to support that.

I find it wierd because in the classes, they tell you how to do the exercises and they talk a bit about energy (in a more exoteric way), but they don't get into the technical details of a Kundalini awakening. So, I could be going to these classes thinking they're mostly just an energizing workout, all the while setting myself up for a Kundalini awakening, and then, BAM, I could be in the middle of a Kundalini Awakening without even knowing what that's all about. I've read about the nasty side-effects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini#Problems_and_side-effects) that can occur, and wonder of the risks vs. benefits.

Well, now that I look back, most of this is rather derisive in tone, and I'm not sure how to resolve this negativity...

I'd love to hear any others' experiences through Kundalini Yoga.

Some other questions that occur to me:
- Do any styles of Tantric Yoga employ the Kundalini ?
- (how) is the nature of Kundalini energy similar/different than the energy in Trantric Yoga, Reiki, Tai Chi, etc.

Kain
03-19-2007, 04:19 PM
I had some pretty intense experiences with it; on one occasion I felt another being hovering overtop of my lying body and it almost violently pulled open my heart chakra. Well, I think the "milder" preperatory practices would really help with cultivating a firm foundation in you for the experiences of Kundalini Yoga to take place. Such practices as those described in Ashtanga Yoga's first limbs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali) (Yama and Niyama, or abstensions and observances) are sometimes omitted yet they really do have an effect of removing the elements making oneself vulnerable to such unwanted interractions/effects, and thus allowing one to practice the main Asanas and Pranayamas without any potential unintended experiences that are way off what should be normally expected. Dietery changes etc are also part of the preparatory practice category.
Secondly, 3H0 is quite aggressive in it's capitalistic endeavors. They way I see it, it really is first and foremost a business and not a school i.e. they're the producers of those "Yogi Teas" you may see around. Frankly, I don't really want to support that.I'm not really aware of the 3H0 movement...pretty much all of my personal knowledge of Kundalini Yoga comes from books and direct experience, as I have not found any fitting teachers in Greece. I at first became aware of Kundalini Yoga due to my investigation of a very powerful energy accident that I experienced some years ago, giving me a permanent scar at my back. Through investigating this energy surge that ascends from the base of the spine, I found out that there were more than one paths dedicated to it after all...Kundalini Yoga being the one I adopted.

I am very serious about studying further concerning this strand of Yoga, and this is what led me to look for teachers abroad. Due to the possible corruption of the teachings (as you describe yourself imagenerator), I personally intend to look for teachers in India. This would allow me to have a quite direct connection with the tradition, and I may also go so far as to permanently retreat there if I find it fitting.

I've read about the nasty side-effects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini#Problems_and_side-effects) that can occur, and wonder of the risks vs. benefits.Well, I have personally had those to various extent in the past, but also had quite serious physical burns aside of that so yes, the side-effects can be quite strong if not properly contained. This can be said to be true for any potent tool however, and it's important to state that carelessness is always a factor for those cases where such effects are met. Also, the possitive effects/benefits are amazingly powerful as far as my experience holds...although I also feel that this path chose me rather than me consciously choosing it...

Do any styles of Tantric Yoga employ the Kundalini ?Well, Kundalini is pretty much one of the most central aspects of Tantric practice. Kundalini Yoga is the generic name of the practice, although there are Vaidica approaches to it as well apart from Tantric.
(how) is the nature of Kundalini energy similar/different than the energy in Trantric Yoga, Reiki, Tai Chi, etc.I can't really speak for Tai Chi or Reiki as I am not experienced in their practice, although I could safely say that Kundalini is a phenomenon around which various paths have been fashioned, furthering it's harnessing. It is a much more specific phenomenon than that of "subtle energy currents". It is a current that ascends through the spine, and has an immensely powerful potential that is not built by the practitioner but *awakened*, as the energy buildup in fact is stored in the lowest energy center at the base of the spine, waiting in a latent state. This detail makes it extremely powerful, and also quite dangerous to clumsy hands, at the same time. This is because when dealing with consciously built charges, one is in a better condition to judge how one should act at a given situation or if one should stop. When dealing with releasing already stored buildup of this magnitude however, a bad appraoch to directing it could end up badly almost instantly.

There are other approaches to the Kundalini phenomenon however...the Tummo (or 'mystic heat') practice of Vajrayana is an extremely close variant, and one I always found very interesting. I think Taoist Alchemy also has a relatively close approach of harnessing the 'jing'...

Kain

imagenerator
03-19-2007, 08:53 PM
Well, I think the "milder" preperatory practices would really help with cultivating a firm foundation in you for the experiences of Kundalini Yoga to take place. Such practices as those described in Ashtanga Yoga's first limbs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali) (Yama and Niyama, or abstensions and observances) are sometimes omitted yet they really do have an effect of removing the elements making oneself vulnerable to such unwanted interractions/effects, and thus allowing one to practice the main Asanas and Pranayamas without any potential unintended experiences that are way off what should be normally expected. Dietery changes etc are also part of the preparatory practice category. *snip*

Thanks for you insights into your experiences with Kundalini, Kain. Wow, I had no idea that subtle energy could do such damage :eek: My approach has definitely been cautious for this very reason.

I think your suggestion to work the milder side of the yogic tree is quite apt. Even though most of the time I eat vegan whole foods, I know that there's definitely room for improvement in my diet. As well, the use of intoxicants certainly doen't help make the journey smoother, although I don't entirely dismiss the validity of "chemognosis" on my path (left hand? right hand ? middle ! ).

I read the wikipedia section on the limbs and then jumped over to this version of the Yoga Sutras (http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/essays/patanjali.asp) and gave it a read. It gave me a good sense of the depth and breadth of Yogic philosophy, and I'm interested in giving the passages a deeper contemplation.

I'm wishing you well on your search for a fitting teacher for your studies in Kundalini and other energy work Kain :)

Kain
03-20-2007, 08:56 AM
Thanks for you insights into your experiences with Kundalini, Kain. Wow, I had no idea that subtle energy could do such damage :eek: My approach has definitely been cautious for this very reason.Well, to tell you the truth imagenerator I still haven't absolutely understood why it happens that to some people energy manifests in such extreme effects while to others not. Subtle energy does have the ability to quite directly influence physical matter if so predisposed however. It seems that it usually keeps this ability in a latent state for some reason, thus a lot of energy work may seem like simple visualization of forms in a safely "parallel" space/plane. It is ultimately a lot closer than it looks however...perhaps the matter of directly affecting the physical world has also to do with the "feel" of a person's energy work compared to another's, even though I personally beleive that this proximity is something that eventually must be realized and consciously awakened in *all* our efforts with energy work as it is a fundamental aspect of the phenomenon of Manifestation and of integrating the Above with the Below in our Work, thus forming a new dimensional basis in which to function in.

On the other hand, I am personally very big on the subject of Laya or Dissolution. I feel my personal work is largely influenced by this goal/principle, and thus my work with energy always attempts to bridge the 'gaps' at every pass. This (http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=364) thread was relevant with this discussion although I still think it's quite hard to express the process perceived into a valid description...

I think your suggestion to work the milder side of the yogic tree is quite apt. Even though most of the time I eat vegan whole foods, I know that there's definitely room for improvement in my diet. As well, the use of intoxicants certainly doen't help make the journey smoother, although I don't entirely dismiss the validity of "chemognosis" on my path (left hand? right hand ? middle ! ). It is a very important factor and often one of the least given credit due to it's apparent "mundane" nature...as for 'Chemognosis', I am personally on the other end of the spectrum concerning this matter but I believe one should use whatever one feels comfortable with in the end. Dietary changes that could be done, should be done though, I think... :)
I read the wikipedia section on the limbs and then jumped over to this version of the Yoga Sutras (http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/essays/patanjali.asp) and gave it a read. It gave me a good sense of the depth and breadth of Yogic philosophy, and I'm interested in giving the passages a deeper contemplation. It is quite a deep text, to be sure. Takes a while to really get a feel for it's complete form and character...
I'm wishing you well on your search for a fitting teacher for your studies in Kundalini and other energy work Kain :)Thank you imagenerator...I wish you the same friend...it's hard finding quality in the search for knowledge in these subjects, but with enough resolve anything can be eventually accomplished I think.

Perseverance Furthers,

Kain

Amur
03-21-2007, 06:09 PM
For me kundalini is all about sexual energy. Kundalini is basically Earth energy, and when it ascends it gives extreme sexual pleasure. So it's very good to learn how to experience unattached extreme sexual pleasure. A good way for men to do thís is to use the anal channel :laugh: I guess Nature intended Men to be Gay, sorry Christianity and other Religious freaks, wrong again *satanic grin*

Stimulating the anal channel at the same time opens up the sexual-channel and lets it flow more freely up the spine. So it's a good way to get accustomed to it. True Kundalini ascension might or might not cause much more pleasure than that.

Kain
03-22-2007, 08:38 AM
For me kundalini is all about sexual energy. Kundalini is basically Earth energy, and when it ascends it gives extreme sexual pleasure. So it's very good to learn how to experience unattached extreme sexual pleasure. A good way for men to do thís is to use the anal channel :laugh: I guess Nature intended Men to be Gay, sorry Christianity and other Religious freaks, wrong again *satanic grin*

Stimulating the anal channel at the same time opens up the sexual-channel and lets it flow more freely up the spine. So it's a good way to get accustomed to it. True Kundalini ascension might or might not cause much more pleasure than that.Interesting...I have quite a different understanding of it's nature personally. For me at least, it is hardly connected with sexuality in any way, in fact I consider sexual excitation a relative impediment in it's awakening, or if not an impediment, a very low-grade manifesation of it's power. For me, the real deal begins when the current does not really manifest in the genital area at all, at least not particularly, but instead disolves it and ascends towards the head.

I think one of the best ways to describe the phenomeneon is that there is a way to actually awaken the dormant activity encapsulated within the element of Earth itself. This is a huge paradox in terms of ordinary energy work, in fact one which has such importance that has managed to make the Tantric doctrine of Shiva and Shakti consider the male as the passive and the female as the active principle, a quite extraordinary viewpoint compared to most metaphysical symbolisms around the world. What actually happens (in my view) is that through a particular process this innate and latent activity in the core of Earth is awakened, thus awakening Earth's active desire to move and ascend, not through application of external force as is often the case with the grossest of elements, but through managing to awaken the direct *Knowledge* and *Experience* of the grossest of elements of actually being the transcendental Power-Holder ("Shaktiman" in Sanskrit). Thus, the passive Earth manifests the fiercest of self-oriented activity in this case, and in fact ascends towards the Apex/Void and absorbs/dissolves all in it's wake, thus making perhaps one of the most accurate and powerful attempts possible to retracing our way to the Primordial state.

This awakening of latent activity in Earth is symbolically described as a sexual excitation of Shakti for her husband, Shiva, thus fueling her ascent to the top of the head. Even though my personal experiences with Kundalini did have a sexual feel to them in the past (sometimes referred as kriyas) for me at least it has stopped being related with sexuality, at least not with sexuality the way the human body directly perceives it. I suppose it could be called a more Primordial kind of sexuality, but I still don't manage to connect with this symbolism so much, personally. I guess such phenomena are way to massive for any of us to apprehend them to their entirety though, so diversity is interesting in the interpretation of similar experiences.

Kain

imagenerator
07-20-2007, 08:19 PM
I must say, I do not want to be responsible for turning anyone on to "Kundalini Yoga" as propriety of 3HO. I have confirmed my suspiciions that they are a fundamentally unhealthy organization. On thing that distrubed me to find out is that Yogi Bhajan, the founder of 3HO, before he established this org, was in the business of telemarketing fraud, and that he has made large investments into military corporations. You can find some of the dirt on him and 3HO here : http://www.rickross.com/groups/3ho.html .

I realize that a lot of this busines of "cult-busting" is predicated on the fact that when people have intense spiritual/magickal, experiences they can get burned, no matter what they practice, but I think that's not the problem, it's that students, from my experience, are given no warning, preparation, initiation, into tantra and it's ways. For all the participants know, it's just another form of yoga with a bit more chanting and meditation. No more "Kundalini Yoga" for me.

On a different note, does anyone know of any trustworthy organizations that teach Tantric/Kundalini Yoga ?

m1thr0s
07-21-2007, 06:24 AM
ALL YOGA is "Kundalini" Yoga to be exact...this term is mainly a soundbite packaged up by the money-savvy Sikhs for the gullible American market if you are willing to face the naked facts of the matter.

I wouldn't care so much personally but it just all gets so damn redundant. The study of the traditional Yogas is important...it has its uses...it also has its limitations. If people will not think for themselves...if they will not dare to go where they have not been led by others...they cannot advance their skills and understandings beyond the broken shards of yesterday's enlightenment.

The Yogas are a work in progress and all knowledge flows into and out from their ever-expanding doctrines. They have to be continually renewed in lieu of everything we have at our disposals...all knowledge is Yogic Knowledge in truth.

People will seemingly do anything they can think of to avoid the burden of self-responsibility at the level of esotericism. I am not saying this to criticize...the situation is more dire than that...I am warning people flat-out that the kinds of truth they really seek already abides within...not in the past...not in any one school or another. take it or leave it. This will all be perfectly apparent in the end.

You want to master Kundalini Yoga? Study Life...study ALL of Life. Study Death as well. This will point you in the right direction.

m1thr0s

Naomi
07-21-2007, 06:52 PM
to discard everything... to be really dead, would that not be glorious? I know some of you have been there. it's very difficult to let go, surprising how many attachments arise in the battle. even here, stripped of the unessentials, Abrahadabra itself remains an attachment. These forums, the structure framing the network of the web - the day to day mainstays of food, housing and the planet, all mean nothing in relation to the subtle body. Yoga itself is only an approach. Perhaps Kundalini Shakti is not the only shakti in the higher realms. We look beyond what seems to be and find the sixth element of hermetics. Impossible? No!