True Will

[Fio Praeter Humanus]

In an attempt to define true will I offer the following:

True Will does not spring from conscious intent, but from the interplay between the deepest Self and the entire Universe. Therefore, the enlightened Thelemite is one who is able to eliminate or bypass one's ego-created desires, conflicts, and habits, and tap directly into the Self/Universe nexus. Theoretically, at this point, the Thelemite acts in alignment with Nature, just as a stream flows downhill, with neither resistance nor "lust of result." -from wiki

To know and do your true will you must know your true self, the secret self within. In truth you cannot know the self you can only be the self.

You have a job but you are not your job. You have pleasure and pain but you are not them. You have desires and friends and family, you are none of them. You are not the play list on your ipod. You may have a body but you are not your body. You may have emotions but you are not your emotions. You may have thoughts but you are not your thoughts. You are the self that does not think or know it just is, it is a being.

From that vantage point there is no doubt, there is no desire, there only is a being. The ego can say I. The self cannot say I, it can only say I am. It is what it is and it does what it does, there is nothing else.

In samadi you may know and be the self but samadi is not the self. Samadi is a tool to allow you to experience the self but you cannot spend the rest of your life in samdi nor should anyone want to. The self is the center and secret self that goes where you go and moves with you. In time you can operate from the self at all times carrying it around as a hidden pearl. In operating from the self you are living your true will as the self knows no thoughts or distractions nor needs any reasons. It just is.

It is not a knowing, it is a being.

__________________________________________________ ________

I offer this up for critique and hopefully discussion.

[Hairetikos]

True Will is a big focal point for me. In my opinion, "Know Thyself" and "Do What Thou Wilt" are practically synonymous. The only difference perhaps is that the first can be seen as a noun and the second a verb. Or the first a non-active knowing or experience and the second being the expression of that knowledge. The process you went through is what I know as the De-identification Process, where you cease to consciously identify with your environment and experiences. It's at least helpful in reducing stress and getting closer to a realization of who or what you are. If you can experience something, then you are not that thing.

[Kain]

You have a job but you are not your job. You have pleasure and pain but you are not them. You have desires and friends and family, you are none of them. You are not the play list on your ipod. You may have a body but you are not your body. You may have emotions but you are not your emotions. You may have thoughts but you are not your thoughts. You are the self that does not think or know it just is, it is a being.

From that vantage point there is no doubt, there is no desire, there only is a being. The ego can say I. The self cannot say I, it can only say I am. It is what it is and it does what it does, there is nothing else. What a profound characterization of the state Nero. Well done! I am absolutely in agreement with your post so will not belabor not repeat the same points.

I think that samadhi is pretty much inseparable from that condition though, one being one with the Self when experiencing it. Perhaps this needs further clarification though, there being more than one cases/depths of samadhi.

In savikalpa/samprajnata samadhi, the relaization of oneness is still one of form. Illuminated form of course, but we are still dealing with constructs leading to the realization of the essence itself. In nirvikalpa/asamprajnata samadhi, the realization and knowledge is direct however, and thus "formless". So I personally think that direct realization of the essense and Will of the Self is identical with the nirvikalpa/asamprajnata samadhi state.

Great post Nero,

Kain

[fr.novumorganum]

A good post Nero; I can see alignemnt there. For me, True Will is more a daoist state, of flowing with the dao.

Theoretically, at this point, the Thelemite acts in alignment with Nature, just as a stream flows downhill is pretty much, love is the law, love under will.

[Radiant Star]

When I see people talking about True Will, it sounds like it is something static that once you have attuned to, you have hit the mark, but really, because situations change and the world changes, it must be a constant re-aligning - would that be true?

[m1thr0s]

To know and do your true will you must know your true self, the secret self within. In truth you cannot know the self you can only be the self.In truth I am not entirely certain how true it is that one cannot "Know Thyself" but the emphasis on Being is a very good one in my view. It is an active emphasis rather than a passive one and I think that this is a critical distinction. Whether or not one can or cannot wholly Know Thyself is ultimately nowhere near as important as that one come to act in perfect accordance with True Self. From where we sit, this may only ever be possible on an intuitive basis anyway, just as "Knowing" one's self may only be possible in a generic sort of way.

Strictly on the basis of experience alone, I would have to say that a True Knowledge of True Self is only possible as a matter of Memory. I don't think we can get there analytically any more than an ant can fathom being a human being.

m1thr0s

[Amur]

When just acting one can override the mental thought-stream and receive everything from Above or Below. This state is reached when one silences both brain hemispheres from the echo-bug and just is. Which in turn opens the crown and makes one an embodiment of Eternity. It simply just transcends everything. Takes Willie to a new level :sunny:

Of course I can flip on the way and go into an Allmightyness-frenzy and declare new spiritual laws that will last for only a couple of thousand years and blow up into yellowish hue, sound familiar? :laugh: A cure for it is of course humility.

When I see people talking about True Will, it sounds like it is something static that once you have attuned to, you have hit the mark, but really, because situations change and the world changes, it must be a constant re-aligning - would that be true?

From my perspective at the moment it is a matter of tuning oneself into. Which means that when one lets the Above descend into the body, it starts to tune aspects of within to the Above. When one is completely tuned one becomes Above and acts. Which means that once everything is tuned, and one has learned how to slide frictionless both on the inside and the outside(synchronizes together quite neatly), it should stay like that.

A good way to achieve this beingness is to take amphetamine and learn to relax and just be in that state. Not sure if one needs to be pranically awakened for it to work, but for me the crown opens up and I can tap directly into eternity itself. Staying up a whole night might also help this phenomenom, need to do more investigation. Whee can't wait for the next doze of Holy Speed :laugh:

[Anibis]

You have a job but you are not your job. You have pleasure and pain but you are not them. You have desires and friends and family, you are none of them. You are not the play list on your ipod. You may have a body but you are not your body. You may have emotions but you are not your emotions. You may have thoughts but you are not your thoughts. You are the self that does not think or know it just is, it is a being.

This is a way to the true self, though I feel like the opposite is also a way to the true self;

You ARE your job, you ARE the pleasure and pain, your desires and families, thoughts, and memories... What I've come to realize is that what we are talking about is unity, although unities are difficult to come to terms with. Since if your true essence is oneness, then we assume that these various mutliform things such as our bodies, thoughts, and so-on, which are compound and divisible are not One. Because of that fact, we seek an abstract 'One' that is indivisible, and so figure that procedure via elimination will take us to that. BUT, like with the quest for the atom, we find it more and more internally divided as we go along.... the abstract 'one' recedes... This is when Unity is sought as a 'being'.

I believe there is a 'one' that can be known and it is movement: becomming. Try to think of difference itself in its pure state: NOT as secondary relation between same things: pure difference, becomming.... take an organism; the unity of it's being may be compound, but what makes it 'One' is it's trajectory; the fact that, as a healthy organism, it follows a single 'line of pursuit' to the things it needs, desires, or wants... this is quite different than the abstact one; it is a simple unity, but it is inclusive of all the various things which compose it. I look at the TW as being not that which we discover after 'peeling off all the layers', but that which we always have, but attain and greater facility with, and deeper range to, the more we integrate and co-relate the different parts of our being. I'd say it is the muscle by which we flex our metaphysical AND our physical 'direction' (indeed, as ONE). It is our singularity of focus, which we build through practice...

I guess this puts me in the camp of the yogi more than the magician (as described in Magick without tears), but I thought I'd offer itas an alternative perspective. Another way of looking at it is that the perfected true will is like a clear tone, assembed out of background noise by judiciously arranging all those noises such that they do not conflict, but amplify one another...

The thing about this then, is that even the job you hate, the thoughts you cannot stand, etc... are in a sense manifestation of the state of harmony of your TW... if I have a terrible job, I work to perfect it, and invariably it yeilds and something else comes up ( I accept it into my becomming, and it has NO CHOICE but to transform into a phenomena actually akin with what I Will, and at a rate directly in proportion to the current inertia of said Will ... The point is that YES, all these things are the TW, but the form they take is not fixed for all eternity... it is MADE OF the potential to change, to be moved... You can 'yoke' the worst thoughts, the deepest loves, the most banal jobs, etc... to your sense of spiritual direction, and then slowly (or quickly) the whole begins to emerge, the 'noise' recedes, all the various directional lines of the different phenomena begin to bend towards one trajectory... Such is the True Will in my experience. It is the intimate experience of the universe and the self as energy patterns...

-Ibisis

Looking again at this, I think it probably needs re-emphasis that this is a perspective that takes for granted that the impulse of direction is comin from the largest most expansive energy system around. It comes through you, on that level. THis helps to prioitize which directives are subordinated(nested) on which others... so for example the bacteria living in your intestive has as its true will to be part of that environment, to do its work... It is subordinate to you; it's larger context... on a larger scale you are not subordinated to the directives of this bacteria, but are alined with it; you yoke it's true will with various others in your being and then procede from there. As a person, the larger environment is the physical and social; the environment of society. Society's larger environment is the land, the planet... Beyond that, the Solar system, the Galaxy, the Universe... and so on. The more you can integrate the larger you become, spiritually speaking... The larger you become (truly), the smaller you become, as well; since the 'bead' of your trajectory gets tighter and more focused, like a lazer...

[Kain]

When I see people talking about True Will, it sounds like it is something static that once you have attuned to, you have hit the mark, but really, because situations change and the world changes, it must be a constant re-aligning - would that be true?From my perspective at the moment it is a matter of tuning oneself into. Which means that when one lets the Above descend into the body, it starts to tune aspects of within to the Above. When one is completely tuned one becomes Above and acts. Which means that once everything is tuned, and one has learned how to slide frictionless both on the inside and the outside(synchronizes together quite neatly), it should stay like that.I agree with the way Amur has put this. Certainly certain situations can cloud that connection however it is like hitting a mark I think, and then trying to frictionlessly maintain it throughout any upcoming situation. This is the very point of True Will in fact, as one stops trying to adapt to whatever new situation is thrown at one's path, but rather manages to attain a state through which, as long as is sufficiently maintained, understood and followed, no obstacles will fall on one's path whatsoever, since through it one attains consciousness of the "head" of the process, thus no longer being impeded by virtually anything since all that comes to pass necessarilly *is* one's Will. Quite a lofty concept to grasp for some, and even more difficult to maintain for those who do. That's how it behaves though I think...

Kain

[Anibis]

Nicely put, Kain!
-Ibisis

[Kain]

Thanks Ibisis. By the way, that's a very interesting point that I previously missed:The more you can integrate the larger you become, spiritually speaking... The larger you become (truly), the smaller you become, as well; since the 'bead' of your trajectory gets tighter and more focused, like a lazer...
Kain

[Radiant Star]

The thing about this then, is that even the job you hate, the thoughts you cannot stand, etc... are in a sense manifestation of the state of harmony of your TW... if I have a terrible job, I work to perfect it, and invariably it yeilds and something else comes up ( I accept it into my becomming, and it has NO CHOICE but to transform into a phenomena actually akin with what I Will, and at a rate directly in proportion to the current inertia of said Will ... The point is that YES, all these things are the TW, but the form they take is not fixed for all eternity... it is MADE OF the potential to change, to be moved... You can 'yoke' the worst thoughts, the deepest loves, the most banal jobs, etc... to your sense of spiritual direction...
This reminds me of a story I read about a priest that felt his True Will was to serve people; he was made a prisoner of war in a camp and put to work on building a railroad or some kind of road. The other prisoners fought against this in the only way they felt they could and that was by working slowly, but the priest worked hard because he saw that by building the road, he would be serving people at a later date because they would have an easier passage to amenities.

[Fio Praeter Humanus]

A bit off topic but it was born out of the realization of my first post. A bit of writing on my part. If it is too off topic we can move it or delete it.

A Prayer of Confession

ASAR UN-NEFER, you who are not my body, you who are not my heart, you who are not my mind. Holy art thou, my secret self! Lord of the Gods. Unity uttermost showed!

Through my own fault, in my thoughts and in my deeds, in what I have done and what I have failed to do, I have neglected to know and do my will. I have cast blame on others and other circumstances. I have not accepted responsibility for my own actions and inactions.

Hear me, I invoke you!
I seek to write new values on new tablets!
I seek to fully realize the Aeon of Horus, that I might work my will in the world!
Such are the Words!

[Kain]

Really nice Nero, thanks for sharing that one!

Kain

[Copuldaemon]

Nero, with all that you've said in your first post, I want to say that
the EGO is a bitch man. Very deceptive, that "I". But I understand what you're saying.

I'll be honest with you and I'm not sure if you can understand this but sometimes when I get out of all the personality masks or moods that I have, and I'm bare, I get sad because I get conscious of my past where some of my friends and loved ones are dead, or elsewhere and I'm a stranger in a strangeland and it get's scary.
But on the quest for the true will, I'm not sure I want to find out what that is you know? I'm not trying to speculate here but what if it's to do something really bad to some one -I'll stop there.
I am actually more challenged by the I aspect because without turning a blind eye, most of the crap that I'm in I created and by learning to do better and to get out is a reall challengeto me especially since it's easier said than done.

[Anibis]

You know, I'm generally of the opinion that everything I do is my true will, and always has been. THere's no 'destiny' to it, it's just what I do, the task is then just to make sure that when you do anything, you are aware that it either shares momentum with or causes dissonance with the other things you do. With this awareness comes an increasing sense of doing things that resonate harmoniously with all the other things you do. Then you become consistent, and powerful. You basically engage the process of becomming one with yourself... That's how I look at it...
-Ibisis

[emeraldhanael]

I myself am not so far along the path yet as to be able to theorize about true will. However I find this discussion very interesting :) thanks all

[Kain]

I myself am not so far along the path yet as to be able to theorize about true will. However I find this discussion very interesting :) thanks allYeah, I agree that this evolved in a rather interesting set of replies...:tsmile:

Kain

[Fio Praeter Humanus]

In an earlier post I theorized on a definition of true will. In that post I approached it from a bit of a mystical stand point. In a nutshell I explained that all your thoughts, emotions, and feelings are illusions of you and the deep untouched core beneath all this is the true self who has it's own agenda and that the realization of that agenda is the true will.

This is still true yet I feel it needs another layer of explanation from a more mundane point of view and try and avoid more mystical bents.

Point one, the entire planet and all of human kind is born, lives, and dies in groups.

Point two, all of these groups over time have established civilization, forms of government, religions, and an identifying culture.

Point three, it is in the best interests of these groups to collectivize and homogenize the populace of the group to strengthen and to act with unity of purpose, goals, and identity without which there would be no group.

Point four, to enact these interests the group uses a variety of tools including but not limited to laws, morality, mass media, and the use of the herd instinct to pressure the individual to maintain societal norms and expectations.

Point five, the constant use of these tools over time creates a collectivized consciousness where there is severe fear, mistrust, and anxiety over thoughts, desires, and actions considered outside the group norm regardless if they are found within by an individual or without in another individual or sub-group.

Now, if these points are true then we as human beings all think and behave according to our societal consciousness. Our laws, morals, sins, virtues, and very truths upon which we are built come largely from the group and many sub-groups such as religions, race, and families. This societal consciousness along with personal experiences combine to form the outlook and point of view of the individual ego. The individual ego's will aside from slight deviation is not the true will but rather the group will. In essence, Our wills are not our own.

To question everything is the beginning of discovering our will. What do we think of that? Why do we think that? The stripping away of layers of societal programming is the way to our wills. For by definition Our True Will is our will away from the herd. It is the truths we hold self evident not the truths we were told or taught that are self evident. Who is the self beneath all that stuff? How would that person behave if it was not following the societal script?

The old maxim "Know thy self." Seems an extension of this. If you truly know yourself as a separate and discreet entity away from the group then your will can only be your true will.

[Anibis]

I dunno, Nero... often I share the group will. Why does the group will have to be something we imagine being 'done to us'.. maybe we are group creatures and our will strengthens in such a connection... I get what you are saying on the one hand: One's true will cannot be over-written by another's agendas implicit or explicit, but I think that there is a tendency to construe all societal education as mal-education, and I don't see that as necessarily being so... I like to see through the layers prior to, (or in lieu of) rending them... I guess I just don't romanticize anarchism anymore... But why can't true will basically be just the chutzpah to stand behind your actions?
-Anibis

[RideTheTiger]

What if the "true will" is yet another trap, our ego just riding a wave of the unfamiliar sensation of power in such magnitude that we choose to give it a lofty name and think we've found something important?

[baenheh]

The qualities of the will are-

1. Energy - Dynamic power - intensity
2. Mastery - control - discipline
3. Concentration- onepointedness- attention
4. Determination - decisiveness - resoluteness - promptness
5. Persistence - endurance - patience
6. Initiative - courage - daring
7. Organization - integration - synthesis

A fully developed true will knows how to utilise these differing qualities as needed to achieve balance and follow a middle path which is not of extremes in polarity.

The stages of a willed act as it unfolds - are purpose, deliberation, decision, affirmation, planning and the direction to be executed.

If the will is used in domineering, oppressive, or forbidding ways it produces inner reactions where it is then swung with the ego to the other extreme.
(we can find examples of this all through society groups that are 'for or against' in mentality)

The true will or transpersonal will is a will that channels powerful energies that flow and operate in a 'taoistic' state for the individual that is also in alignment with universal energies that are in equilibrium and not bouncing from one extreme to another.

The problem in society is it plays on this extremes of polarity which the ego is easily swayed into action. Just look at the examples around you in mainstream religions, politics, male and female idealisms etc. The ego is tricked into 'false beliefs' and one is subordinated sometimes by herd peer pressures into an unbalanced choice or outcome which creates inner friction with one's true will.

[m1thr0s]

"We know ourselves chiefly through hearsay".

While that statement is not 100% true it is true enough to warrant serious reflection. Whatever *will* may be, it is always symbiotically defined...it cannot be defined in a vacuum. Even the Tao, they say, adheres to the laws of Nature, while Nature, for its part follows the Way of Tao. Always we see this reciprication in matters pertaining to Will.

It is not physically possible for the Will of the Individual to be defined solely by the Group dynamic. The Group is simply too chaotic to make this physically possible. The Individual prioritizes and chooses among trillions of sensory signals which Will will be the Will that he or she will follow. The Group cannot achieve this prioritization save only through the agency of Individuals. Highly successful individuals are those who somehow manage to sort it all out in accordance to all levels at once, so I think we have a pass-fail threshhold to contend with since it is possible to get this whole thing very wrong.

The whole idea of extending one's sense of Group to include whole systems is very important and the entire principle of Freedom rests upon this dynamic. The ability to act in accordance with the Will of the World in lieu of the Will of the Universe is how the Will of the Magus is defined. But all the while it is still the Individual in there calling the shots. Somehow it would seem that the Group cannot ultimately lead itself but through the agency of Individuals uniquely capable of identifying and applying themselves to the necessary rules of mastery itself. These rules will vary based on all kinds of different factors...there is a kind of cartology that gets involved in all of this...of attending to the right thing at the right time in relation to ones overall position in lieu of everything bearing down on one at any given place and time.

So I do not believe the Group determines the Will of Individuals, nor that Individuals can ever hope to identify or accomplish the doing of Will without referencing the Group as its operational context. The larger the context, the greater the odds of achieving anything we might be inclined to consider "True Will"... :bluegenie:

m1thr0s

[Fio Praeter Humanus]

I dunno, Nero... often I share the group will. Why does the group will have to be something we imagine being 'done to us'.. maybe we are group creatures and our will strengthens in such a connection... I get what you are saying on the one hand: One's true will cannot be over-written by another's agendas implicit or explicit, but I think that there is a tendency to construe all societal education as mal-education, and I don't see that as necessarily being so... I like to see through the layers prior to, (or in lieu of) rending them... I guess I just don't romanticize anarchism anymore... But why can't true will basically be just the chutzpah to stand behind your actions?
-Anibis

No I am not saying all society group ideals are wrong. I am also not saying they are all right either. I am just pointing out the fact that unless we exam our ideals, true values and motivations we will not know what is our will and what is another's will. Separation of the wheat from the chaff. Of course as many people and cultures as there are there is bound to be some overlap in will. But I am of the mind that there is a true will of the individual and a group will and discerning the difference is the first step.

[Anibis]

Yeah, fair enough... I think m1 did a great job of expressing the overlap, and I see it those terms... so, I'm with you, at the end of the day, only we find so many different ways of expressing it, they often sound like they exclude one another. At the end of the day I draw my understanding of will mostly from Nietzsche and Schopenhauer, as well as the more zen takes on it... Crowley too, but he made it so damn important sounding, that it's easy to miss the experience and get caught up in a snipe hunt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snipe_hunt)....
-Anibis

[Fio Praeter Humanus]

So I do not believe the Group determines the Will of Individuals, nor that Individuals can ever hope to identify or accomplish the doing of Will without referencing the Group as its operational context. The larger the context, the greater the odds of achieving anything we might be inclined to consider "True Will"...

m1thr0s

I do not think the group determines the will of the individual but I do believe it clouds the will of the individual and applies pressure to the individual to conform to the group. Anything different is generally considered eccentric, weird, crazy, abnormal, bad. The greater the divergence the greater the reaction by the group to the individual.

Of course you must reference the group as the starting point. It is after all where we are and even the strongest and stubborn willed person out there is going to be influenced by it to some degree. I am just suggesting we should apply the tower of Peh and tear everything down to the foundation and pick the bricks up that are useful to build the new structure.

[m1thr0s]

I am just suggesting we should apply the tower of Peh and tear everything down to the foundation and pick the bricks up that are useful to build the new structure. I agree that's pretty much essential. Unfortunately, it's a lot easier to say than do. I don't actually know hardly anybody that has done this as a matter of choice. It almost seems to have to happen to you in some way...some combination of circumstances that has the general effect of trashing your whole sense of reality in a pretty powerful sort of way.

I think that this was probably one of the real strengths of the Shamanic Path. The mind is too good at pretending to have accomplished things it has not actually accompished. It may not be the only way to do things, but it is at least one way that can work...

m1thr0s

[Fio Praeter Humanus]

I agree that's pretty much essential. Unfortunately, it's a lot easier to say than do. I don't actually know hardly anybody that has done this as a matter of choice. It almost seems to have to happen to you in some way...some combination of circumstances that has the general effect of trashing your whole sense of reality in a pretty powerful sort of way.
Amen brother. Generally it seems that as you attempt to do this all you are doing is pulling the string on your sweater, tearing stuff up but not really accomplishing anything. But it also seems the very act of this weakens the overall structure until some tiny "minor" thing comes along and catastrophic change happens, the perverbal straw on the camels back.

I think that this was probably one of the real strengths of the Shamanic Path. The mind is too good at pretending to have accomplished things it has not actually accompished. It may not be the only way to do things, but it is at least one way that can work...

Very true. It seems no matter how much you tear down and no matter how big the calapse you never seem to hit foundation, only more structure of bricks. But hey, rome wasn't built in a day and neither was it destroyed in a day. The journey can be the most important part.

[fr.novumorganum]

What if the "true will" is yet another trap, our ego just riding a wave of the unfamiliar sensation of power in such magnitude that we choose to give it a lofty name and think we've found something important?


true will, when experienced as true will, is at a level beyond a dichotomy of will/ego. the trap is the black brothers, and something very different.

[Naomi]

What are the black brothers? (I get the feeling it's not the Black Panther Party)

[Frater SI]

I was going to ask the Same thing .. I always read about this Black Brother hood from Dion Fortune to the GD to Bardon? Is it a Metaphor ?

[Naomi]

Crowley speaks of it as well:

"The wrong kind of silence - that of the black brothers."

I memorized that recently, but at the moment can't seem to find the page to post the context.

Might it have something to do with the Magi Society?

[Frater SI]

All I could find in regards to this that makes any sense from an Occultism Perspective is the Following? from a fortune or Bardon perspective this Black Brotherhood has always been a group or Distinct Lodge or Organization that has some kind of stereotypical Hollywood Satanic bent. I can see this thread turning into a Conspiracy theory thread .. We should probably move this if it gets any further traction?

a black brother is one who, for whatever reason, was either unable to cross the abyss or conquer its guardian, who's name we all know. being defeated by this force, the black brother then shrinks into Daas, building there a fortress, fortifying himself against the dissilution or anihilation which is eminent in the final stages of the great work. Here he draws force around him, claiming "I am I" and resisting with great conviction the death of his "I". Here he is separate, and separates all things each from the other, with knowledge.
Daath has become the crown of his tree. It means utter failure. It is a false thing that crowns his universe. that is his knowledge.
Yes this sounds rather harsh, or perhaps you may say ignorant judgment. But I would like to say here that the black brothers too are the work of the wholeness of the divine unfolding. I do not imply that they are to be abhorred, or even pitied. their part of the grand feast should be celebrated, for it too is the divine ecstasy of the beauty behind all things

[Anibis]

Sounds like this is basically saying that the Jewish God "I am I", is equivalent to a malevolent demiurge. Or at least that's how I have read it. Also that 'Knowledge' always invokes a 'Because', and all knowlege ends up being contingent on endless, relative factors, upon final analysis. The 'Black Frother', basically falls back on a 'false eternal'(An arbitrary standard of Truth) in an attempt to consolidate and uphold their power... Fundamentalism, the closed firmament, the demiurge... My interpretation, at any rate... Wisdom and Understanding require vulnerability. The refusal to become vulnerable leads to an obsession with blowing fragments of the whole up into immutable truths, and necessitates a long term, but ultimately hopeless 'stand' against entropy...
-A-

[m1thr0s]

I always felt that the so-called "Black Brotherhood" was an overzealous attempt at simplifying something that just isn't all that simple.

It doesn't have any real meaning or carry and real weight in my world at least...not in those terms at least.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Oh well who gives a fuck, m1thr0s is right, they don't even really matter.

I think I'll just tell people they're the black panther party from now on, just to be funny.

[BrotherM]

Oh god no I'm back...

I disagree that they don't matter, because I think they do. In my experience they are real and have a big influence on what we know as every day life. The black brotherhood are so called because they choose to leave the light of the divine and create their own light. From Bardon's perspective, completion of the great work was to be eventually re-united with the divine, and in that way the BB are different. Think of this from the perspective of what would happen if a soul would spend many lifetimes working with the spiritual until such point as it had mastered the energies of the universe. What if at that time they decided to no longer be a part of the universal energies and moved on to create their own universe? What would that be called?

BrotherM the returned.

[Kuroyagi]

Oh god no I'm back...

I disagree that they don't matter, because I think they do. In my experience they are real and have a big influence on what we know as every day life. The black brotherhood are so called because they choose to leave the light of the divine and create their own light. From Bardon's perspective, completion of the great work was to be eventually re-united with the divine, and in that way the BB are different. Think of this from the perspective of what would happen if a soul would spend many lifetimes working with the spiritual until such point as it had mastered the energies of the universe. What if at that time they decided to no longer be a part of the universal energies and moved on to create their own universe? What would that be called?

BrotherM the returned.
But why should this be "bad"? Basically I consider such thinking as a residue of the judaic faith that still clings to the TOL which in itself can be a powerful instrument. Id recommend to dip it into a bath of Königswasser to get rid of the dogmatic dirt. :rofl: (I felt this for a long time but recently got even confirmed in my opinion when starting to work with the TOL as a core component of the m1thr0sian system of mutational alchemy)

I myself am quite an ethic fellow and like justice well enough but just could never suppress a smile when Bardon talks of Divine Providence, and when Crowley talks of the Blackbrothers I merely take it as one of his many sufi-style jokes cause else- if I were to take him seriously- I should be very angered by his incredible hubris: I mean who is he to tell anyone something like this? First he invents the problem of having fallen/returned below some "abyss" and then he critizises those who allegedly dont adhere to his imaginary standards. :no:

[BrotherM]

hehehe classic response. I never said the black brothers were bad, I think they are the way to go. I mean, who the hell wants to be eaten alive by "God", no matter how shiney it is?

BrotherM

[Kuroyagi]

Yes, I already noticed on OF that you think that Im an idiot who doesnt know anything- but you must understand that Im primarily a Chaos Magician and am sometimes not too concerned for the manneristic intricacies and moralistic embellishments of various pseudo religious systems (if they arent my taste), or cant contribute to my direct experience in understanding nature myself: The simple reason is that Im scanning various systems and adepts and take the parts they are best at- and to be honest: for questions about morality and justice I will go to the philosophers in the narrower sense of the word. Maybe other people who have in your view more experience with Thelemic Magick can give you a "non-classical" answer, then, no problem. :)

[Kuroyagi]

hehehe classic response. I never said the black brothers were bad, I think they are the way to go. I mean, who the hell wants to be eaten alive by "God", no matter how shiney it is?

BrotherM
oops sorry didnt see your answer- then its ok, but I still shouldnt have come to the thread, sorry, this heaven screaming inefficiency of parts of this system makes me angry, like talking with some nerds...still I'll leave my above response cause its funny! :)

[BrotherM]

Yes, I already noticed on OF that you think that Im an idiot who doesnt know anything- but you must understand that Im primarily a Chaos Magician and am sometimes not too concerned for the manneristic intricacies and moralistic embellishments of various pseudo religious systems (if they arent my taste), or cant contribute to my direct experience in understanding nature myself: The simple reason is that Im scanning various systems and adepts and take the parts they are best at- and to be honest: for questions about morality and justice I will go to the philosophers in the narrower sense of the word. Maybe other people who have in your view more experience with Thelemic Magick can give you a "non-classical" answer, then, no problem. :)

I may leave and never come back ... By 'classic' I meant 'good one', 'awesome', 'excellent', 'good'. I don't think you are an idiot, sorry you got that impression. I liked your response, I was praising you dude.

EDIT> Just saw your other post, will leave the above to avoid the anger of the mods for deleting posts. Still never thought you were an idiot though dude<
Bro-M

[Naomi]

I mean, who the hell wants to be eaten alive by "God", no matter how shiney it is?

I DO!!!!!:dull:

[Kuroyagi]

yes sorry brother M, I made the mistake of having not enough time to read indepth and posted some shit...dont worry, carry on the discussion, my iconoclastic zeal was directed at you though it shouldnt have been! Its frustating, I should have more time for the discussion here but I havent I hate it.

[BrotherM]

I DO!!!!!:dull:

Thats because you are half Raven and like shiney things ;)

[Anibis]

I interpret the 'black brothers' as a pretty old-school 'blackbad/goodwhite' kind of schema that Al should have known better about... Still, I think the term applies to magi who seek to cheat death; prolonging the ego self, ratherer than accepting dissoltion fo the form into the continuum. I think that what was meant by that term was people of a fundamentalist faith: ie Jews, Christians, and such... The 'tower' in Daath being essentially the tower of a 'knowledge' grounded on 'because'.... Sure my view isn't terribly original, but I think it is consistent. Crowley was concerned, I think, as are all will-aligned philosophers with liberating us from 'being' into 'becomming'... A fancy way of saying transforming the isolated subject into a force of nature, or active manifestation of Tao... the Black Brother, so called, blocks this possibility at the gate by supposing an unquestionable knowledge.... It only when we can subject our knowledge to the infinite chain of it's causes and conditions, that we cease to be identical with it, and become motion.... Space is a subset of Time. Marduk was a descendent of Tiamat. Not the other way around, and not on equal terms... things are a special case of verbs....
-Anibis

[BrotherM]

I don't know if I think there is a right or wrong here, just like there isn't a good or evil (In my mind). If you want to recombine with the divine then you will head down the path of the brotherhood of light. If you want to flip "God" the bird and blaze your own cosmic trail, then you become a black brother. Each to their own I suppose. The important thing is both require the "true will", or do they? I am not a big fan of the predestined.

Bro-M

[Fio Praeter Humanus]

I was under the impression that Crowley's term Black Brotherhood referred to those who had discovered their true will but refused to follow it for whatever reason. I am not sure though.

[Anibis]

Yeah, I understand the mages in question to be NOT doing their true will at all, but rescinding it to what amounts to being a collosal 'want'... This Was Crowley's depiction. Choronzon who epitomizes the Black Brother is composed of a thousand 'images' and simulacra of the will but has no true will... See the encounter between Crowley and 333 in The Vision and the Voice, liber 418... It was Kenneth Grant, I am told, who said that the Left hand path and the 'black brothers' were distinct and not to be conjoined. It strikes me M, that your depiction is more in line with the Left Hand Path, than the Autocratic sort of Priestishness that Crowley seemed to imply by 'Black Brothers'... The left hand path is certainly able to manifest True Will, and concentrates more of the self/body, but isn't quite the same thing... Then again all of this comes from terminologies that are at once both highly technical in what they are trying to describe, and highly outdated in terms of what magickians tend to think nowadays about the attribution of morality to color... I mean, wasn't one of the greatest victories of freedom over hypno-conditioning the act of decoupling darkness from evil and light from good? I have NO problem with this, but that's not who the BB's are in terms of their 'function'... They are more like a cancer growth: they are a sickness and represent the abscence of will, regardless of what 'color' mage we are talking about...
-Anibis

[m1thr0s]

If the so-called BB actually knew that this is who they were, this whole definition might be a little more useful but they almost never seem to be aware of any such thing. That makes it very confusing. What exactly is the litmus test for "doing one's will"? How do any of us really know for sure that we are not being manipulated in some way to do something altogether opposite?

There are people and organizations I can think of that would seem to me to meet this whole BB description but with only a few exceptions I think they are probably mostly completely oblivious of it. That renders the whole terminology practically useless in my view. It's not like we have this well defined conspiracy going on so much as we are dealing with an unavoidable human ignorance that's going to continue to behave ignorantly no matter what we call them. So it doesn't even help us to "know the enemy", since really, ultimately, the "enemy" is us.

m1thr0s

[BrotherM]

Yeah, I understand the mages in question to be NOT doing their true will at all, but rescinding it to what amounts to being a collosal 'want'... This Was Crowley's depiction. Choronzon who epitomizes the Black Brother is composed of a thousand 'images' and simulacra of the will but has no true will... See the encounter between Crowley and 333 in The Vision and the Voice, liber 418... It was Kenneth Grant, I am told, who said that the Left hand path and the 'black brothers' were distinct and not to be conjoined. It strikes me M, that your depiction is more in line with the Left Hand Path, than the Autocratic sort of Priestishness that Crowley seemed to imply by 'Black Brothers'... The left hand path is certainly able to manifest True Will, and concentrates more of the self/body, but isn't quite the same thing... Then again all of this comes from terminologies that are at once both highly technical in what they are trying to describe, and highly outdated in terms of what magickians tend to think nowadays about the attribution of morality to color... I mean, wasn't one of the greatest victories of freedom over hypno-conditioning the act of decoupling darkness from evil and light from good? I have NO problem with this, but that's not who the BB's are in terms of their 'function'... They are more like a cancer growth: they are a sickness and represent the abscence of will, regardless of what 'color' mage we are talking about...
-Anibis

You make an excellent point Anibis, I concur.

m1thr0s, funny your point that I do not consider myself LHP, but I clearly am to the extreme. I suppose it is a function of being who we are to resist classification...

[m1thr0s]

m1thr0s, funny your point that I do not consider myself LHP, but I clearly am to the extreme. I suppose it is a function of being who we are to resist classification...I seem to have made a point I wasn't intending to make...that's a rather weird sensation...

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

If the so-called BB actually knew that this is who they were, this whole definition might be a little more useful but they almost never seem to be aware of any such thing. That makes it very confusing. What exactly is the litmus test for "doing one's will"? How do any of us really know for sure that we are not being manipulated in some way to do something altogether opposite?

There are people and organizations I can think of that would seem to me to meet this whole BB description but with only a few exceptions I think they are probably mostly completely oblivious of it. That renders the whole terminology practically useless in my view. It's not like we have this well defined conspiracy going on so much as we are dealing with an unavoidable human ignorance that's going to continue to behave ignorantly no matter what we call them. So it doesn't even help us to "know the enemy", since really, ultimately, the "enemy" is us.

m1thr0s

I agree... I just don't think in those terms, but I understand what they imply... When dealing in the occult vocabularies of various different schools, you do end up playing 'word-games' but yeah... at this point, the best thing to do is translate the various different concepts clothed in various difference rhetorics into a form where they can be understood 'objectively' in relation to other concepts... We can't afford to 'Believe' anything at the end of the day so much as evaluate what energetic quality a given idea in a given system might be.... The same stands for True Will. One litmus test for true will is how much strain one has to apply, TW generally doesn't require any strain, it is, as they say, supported by the momentum of the universe...
-A-

[Kuroyagi]

good post anibis!...but yet (for brain wankings sake) isnt the fact that true will is irresistible (cause its the universe that in this case expresses itself in us and we are even consious of it and one would be stupid to act against it), isnt this utmost necessity making it somehow suspicious ?-on a philosophical level at least?

anyway, what i wanted to say above concerning the "who would want to be dissolved by divine will or into god and who (black brothers) wouldnt?" was that even this whole line of reasoning is already presupposing things, its embedded in the historical dogmatic context insofar as it presupposes a certainty that some light even exists and moreso that it must be necessarily be "divine"- why should it be divine? maybe it is only advanced or maybe divine or delusional! I think this is exactly where will comes in- namely in the name of the fabled "free will": the will to say NO, to say: fuck you!, at times even against ones own better judgement, even against the odds, to say: I am NOT predictable FFS!

[Kuroyagi]

I seem to have made a point I wasn't intending to make...that's a rather weird sensation...

m1thr0s
If you should ever publish any artwork (in the narrow sense), this will become an everyday experience to you! :laugh:

[m1thr0s]

rofl...I can see that K...very true...

I'm not so sure I can agree that true will is effortless...I can agree that it is innate but battling through layers and layers of crap to get to the "frictionless" bits can still be a daunting task...

so much so that most will run away screaming at the very thought of it in my experience...even though...in the end...I understand what this idea is rooted in. It has to do with what is ultimately natural, thus the "path of least resistance" is finally at play here. But this still speaks primarily to success beyond whatever price may have to be paid to get there...which can be substantial in the short term.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Oh I see that's what all the friction is about then. explains alot...

K you should try interpreting my artwork sometimes, because most of the time I don't even seem to know what it's about, I think you have an eye for such things naturally....I'm only a beginner poet....

It seems to me true will seems to express in art alot...no matter how simplistic...

[m1thr0s]

Oh I see that's what all the friction is about then. explains a lot...

most people on this forum are pretty damn enlightened compared to the norm...it's easy to lose track of that sometimes. Reminds me of when I was living in Berkeley, California actually. The bizarre is so commonplace there you soon forget what the rest of the world is like...

In a real live setting, I can teach just about anybody of average intelligence the essentials of Trigrammaton (as a meditative discipline) in maybe 1/2 dozen sessions, give or take a few (haven't actually tested this, to be fair)...it's actually not that big a deal...pretty simple really. But acclimating your mind to everything that this simple system implies is a pretty big deal and it can take many years to sift through all the garbage it might happen to drudge up. This is virtually identical to the notion of a *healing crisis* identified by people into live-food diets, for instance. The body gets used to being poisoned and will think itself on the verge of death should you remove those poisons too quickly.

So on the one hand we have something that could hardly get much simpler while on the other we have something so bold in its implications that the mind reels at it all and goes off into all kinds of exaggerated contortions. Those have to be dealt with each in their turn. If the thing is as strong as it seems it will ultimately prevail through it all...which in fact...it does.

But that still doesn't make the assimilation of it a complete walk in the park...and people have to find their own unique styles and so on, so there are always many layers of things that have to be worked through.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Yeah well, maybe a walk in Jurassic Park....

It's funny to apply the above to the inverse concept of the planet as is:

"The inanity is so commonplace on planet earth, you soon forget what the rest of the universe is like."

In a real live setting, I can teach just about anybody of average intelligence the essentials of Trigrammaton (as a meditative discipline) in maybe 1/2 dozen sessions, give or take a few (haven't actually tested this, to be fair)...it's actually not that big a deal...pretty simple really. But acclimating your mind to everything that this simple system implies is a pretty big deal and it can take many years to sift through all the garbage it might happen to drudge up.Great, so! - my true will is installing you as the central teacher in a real live setting (like featuring wall to wall and floor to ceiling black marble and lifesize bronzes of Ng of course) and ressurect the gods of ancient Sumer (at least the ones who know how to party) then we get the primates to come and glorify you for saving them from the worst drag-on in the history of the galaxy.

(I know - it sounds tiresome doesn't it?)

:tlaugh:

[m1thr0s]

nobody wants me for a personal savior...I'm not a very nice person...:mshocked:

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

I think the issue of True Will is tied up with the concept of becomming: motion/trajectory. As a result, it is intimately related to Time. I suppose I won't suprise anyone who knows me if I follow that with the assertion that the friction we talk about may well have something to do with fact that the majority of us use a calendar that sets up a massive interference pattern to the will (a jamming frequency), and that a frictionless space could possibly be incorporated into a calendar if it was designed to code sacred geometries, and fractal extension/contraction dynamics (as per the Magen star, for example). That's my argument in a nutshell, and I think it's a sound one. Time needs to be re-coded from the standard that generates disempowerment myths, and designed to facilitate muscular extension of the will through and across time....
-Anibis

[m1thr0s]

that's a pretty tight little nut Anibis...though I understand bits of it at least. I don't have a lot of confidence in externalized mechanisms though. I would tend to think that the de-encoding you are referring to would need to be accomplished internally in the first instance...

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

Of course... The re encoding would be likewise, at least the tip of it's iceberg would... There's a lot too this, of course. A proper system would be very personal, no doubt, but I still think a form could be devised that would facilitate this across the board for anyone who worked with it... as for the de-encoding... it almost happens as an after effect of working with a 'clean' system... Also when I talk friction, I don't mean so much friction externally, for example with other people or various obstacles but rather internal dissonance that prevents a real capacity to 'project' the will physically.... attainign that is an excercise, and an athletic excercise, as you know... Very similar to your system, only coded into time-counting, as it were....

[m1thr0s]

hmmm...well time is certainly an integrated factor in trigrammaton already so I'm not sure I am seeing where else it need be applied...but the basic premise makes sense to me at least. I'm still something of a suspensionist I suppose, so I tend to think that anything you can do to suspend time also tends to recalibrate the mechanism...getting things to stay that way is another matter...or maybe another layer on the same matter...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

Like 'holding' your breath, then 'letting it go'... :p

[m1thr0s]

lol...yeah, I guess that logic would not be lost on any tokers out there...
nod doo bad...nez dime 'old your bred...lige diz...:dazed:

Hexagrams have a built-in calendrics which is one of the reasons I first became interested in them. The 729 ternaries are blatantly aligned to the 365 Abraxian "aeons", for instance. And there is also *genetic time* to consider which the hexagrams also tap into. The brain itself is nature's premier gyroscope and is capable of recalibrating almost instantly to alternate timewave parameters once these have been introduced. I am not so convinced that there is any problem with time itself so much as there is a kind of problem with space as it affects the damping field of the brain. It may be entirely bioelectrical. It doesn't take much to lift that veil, allowing other clockwork mechanisms to kick in.

The Abraxian clock is one of the things that's been on the back-burner with me for some time. The Tai Hsuan Ching lines up with the idea of an exact 365 *period* cycle, and I have wondered if it may only be a peculiar sort of coincidence that the world approximates this around the physical Sun. Because the ternaries are universal...they have nothing to do with solar systems and would be the same anywhere at all. It's more like a genetic clockwork mechanism...if anything...or *cosmic* perhaps... This whole business of being just-slightly out of sync with that higher mechanism seems to be very indicative of the whole *problem* of higher consciousness anatomics. It's like we are poised right next to the thing but cannot quite lock in.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

lol...yeah, I guess that logic would not be lost on any tokers out there...
nod doo bad...nez dime 'old your bred...lige diz...:dazed:

Hexagrams have a built-in calendrics which is one of the reasons I first became interested in them. The 729 ternaries are blatantly aligned to the 365 Abraxian "aeons", for instance. And there is also *genetic time* to consider which the hexagrams also tap into. The brain itself is nature's premier gyroscope and is capable of recalibrating almost instantly to alternate timewave parameters once these have been introduced. I am not so convinced that there is any problem with time itself so much as there is a kind of problem with space as it affects the damping field of the brain. It may be entirely bioelectrical. It doesn't take much to lift that veil, allowing other clockwork mechanisms to kick in.

The Abraxian clock is one of the things that's been on the back-burner with me for some time. The Tai Hsuan Ching lines up with the idea of an exact 365 *period* cycle, and I have wondered if it may only be a peculiar sort of coincidence that the world approximates this around the physical Sun. Because the ternaries are universal...they have nothing to do with solar systems and would be the same anywhere at all. It's more like a genetic clockwork mechanism...if anything...or *cosmic* perhaps... This whole business of being just-slightly out of sync with that higher mechanism seems to be very indicative of the whole *problem* of higher consciousness anatomics. It's like we are poised right next to the thing but cannot quite lock in.

m1thr0s

Hmmm, yeah, those are good insights - I know I was looking at the Tau Hsuan Ching earlier and I suddenly remembered from about a month ago when I was doing the strange simultaneous posession by Ningishzidda and Durga - I was sitting at yum cha with everyone, staring off into space trying my best to pretend I was just watching tv and not listening to the dialogue going on my head. (the residual tree field effects) So later, I am looking at the huge golden dragon and phoenix mounted on the wall and I think to myself "Why is there sometimes a phoenix with the dragon and other times a tiger?" and Durga suddenly blurts out "HEY! I like that dragon and phoenix. What do you think would happen if we added a third element - the tiger!?" everyone stared at me like they didn't know what to say.

[m1thr0s]

that's usually a good time to order something...lol...

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

Well, I have been interested in the calendrical properties of trigrammaton for a while, too... Actually I have yet to settle on a decent solar count quite yet. I still use the grego mostly, cuz that's how society functions.... THe dreamspell is interesting, but it has some difficulties... A modified version of Hsiung's THC count would probably do the trick... In the future I plan to work out the solar and the lunar, but since they have been handled so often and exhaustively, I figured some other calendars were where to start... I sense that we agree essentially, and yet diverge at some point in terms of our sensibilities... While I recognize the universality of the math involved in trigrammaton, of course, I put some strong emphasis on the material conditions, too... Universality can be a real drag sometimes, when it is divorced from the particular dynamics of a specialized system such as the solar system... by designing calendars which are essential 'distribution systems' for chi across a harmonized array of symbols as governed by the regular movement of a large, pertinent body in the solar system, we are essentially fine tuning our becomming to match that of the system... We are drawing on a huge supply of inertia here: these puppies are very solidly 'earthed', and so the magick enabled by calendrics doesn't even feel like magic... Things just start happening... when an uneven count such as the gregorian is in operation, one cannot simply direct ones will across an even array, but rather run into snags, 'calculations' and suchforth... if you use trigrammaton as a standard, then you have a much cleaner space to work with... I know you agree with this. I think the hand of human creativity has a lot of value here though, sure it's subjective, but there are times when that helps. Calendars are living prayer-wheels... why not run many concurrently, as the result will be a complex evolving energy/consciousness? So break out this Abraxian clock... I am very interested... As for the universality of Trigrammaton: the math is universal, but the qualitative elements are all cultural/subjective, and that's great, is it not? As far as I see it, the more such clean timing systems are added to the whole, the more rythmes get integrated into the overall temporal 'organism', and the more robust it becomes... within that/these times, we end up with an astonishing amount of freedom to will, move, and think... The more of the planets and cycles which we can bring to consciousness, the better, as far as I am concerned...
-Anibis

[m1thr0s]

The essential Abraxian Clock as defined through the prism of the 729 ternary hexagrams is not terribly complicated. You already know the basic drill I think. 729/2=364 + 1 remaining. The remainder is exceptional, containing neither Yins nor Yangs, gets paired with itself and is positioned at Summer Solstice. The Year begins at Winter Solstice and follows the ascent of light through the Yangs to its apex in the Jens at Summer Solstice, then begins its descent through the Yins and back to Winter Solstice. The system allows for an AM Hexagram and a PM Hexagram spread evenly throughout the Year. Each of the AM/PM pairs represents an Aeon. Since I do not know the traditional names or positions of the 365 Aeons I haven't cross-referenced these with their Hexagrammal attributions and there is an outside chance the pairs should follow polar opposition and not simply be linearly aligned...these things would need to be hashed out still...

But the essential mechanism is sound and can even accomodate leap years so it's a little bizarre that it was not formally adopted over the I Ching Calender system on a more permanent basis. It was in use for awhile at least in ancient China. Politics and War seems to have been the decisive factor here. There are no inherent limitations in the system itself. It may have been a little too straight-forward for the prevailing mindset but also it might have been seen as usurping the traditional Yin-Yang system I think. There is also an outside Chance there might have been a Pythagorean equivalent somewhere in use as the Pythagoreans were very keen on the whole 729 numerology...

So it needs some work but the basics are all there...perfectly intact and available for use.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

This is a way to the true self, though I feel like the opposite is also a way to the true self;

You ARE your job, you ARE the pleasure and pain, your desires and families, thoughts, and memories... What I've come to realize is that what we are talking about is unity, although unities are difficult to come to terms with. Since if your true essence is oneness, then we assume that these various mutliform things such as our bodies, thoughts, and so-on, which are compound and divisible are not One. Because of that fact, we seek an abstract 'One' that is indivisible, and so figure that procedure via elimination will take us to that. BUT, like with the quest for the atom, we find it more and more internally divided as we go along.... the abstract 'one' recedes... This is when Unity is sought as a 'being'.

I believe there is a 'one' that can be known and it is movement: becomming. Try to think of difference itself in its pure state: NOT as secondary relation between same things: pure difference, becomming.... take an organism; the unity of it's being may be compound, but what makes it 'One' is it's trajectory; the fact that, as a healthy organism, it follows a single 'line of pursuit' to the things it needs, desires, or wants... this is quite different than the abstact one; it is a simple unity, but it is inclusive of all the various things which compose it. I look at the TW as being not that which we discover after 'peeling off all the layers', but that which we always have, but attain and greater facility with, and deeper range to, the more we integrate and co-relate the different parts of our being. I'd say it is the muscle by which we flex our metaphysical AND our physical 'direction' (indeed, as ONE). It is our singularity of focus, which we build through practice... Really a brilliant description, that paragraph above. Would you say that movement is equivalent to Qian and integration is equivalent to Kun, as stillness?

The thing about this then, is that even the job you hate, the thoughts you cannot stand, etc... are in a sense manifestation of the state of harmony of your TW... if I have a terrible job, I work to perfect it, and invariably it yeilds and something else comes up ( I accept it into my becomming, and it has NO CHOICE but to transform into a phenomena actually akin with what I Will, and at a rate directly in proportion to the current inertia of said Will ... The point is that YES, all these things are the TW, but the form they take is not fixed for all eternity... it is MADE OF the potential to change, to be moved... You can 'yoke' the worst thoughts, the deepest loves, the most banal jobs, etc... to your sense of spiritual direction, and then slowly (or quickly) the whole begins to emerge, the 'noise' recedes, all the various directional lines of the different phenomena begin to bend towards one trajectory... Such is the True Will in my experience. It is the intimate experience of the universe and the self as energy patterns...What sort of meaning do irritating thoughts have in correlation with the True Will? You're talking about harnessing things towards accelerating the velocity of True Will, and this includes transmuting duality into polarity correct? I have this problem where I'm sort of encountering this random abject fear of my male side. I've always had excellent male role models throughout life. So it's funny I thought I had a pretty good grasp of my masculinity but possibly I was mistaking it for something else. I think it's possible I might just be such a hardcore bitch that my masculine side is just a complete terror and I really have no idea how to approach it. Is it possible to find only one half of your True Will and then stumble on the other half by following that?

Your Thoth Count exercise is pretty brutal, you know. I think I drive it pretty hard myself anyways, but I'm beginning to think the engines I have been working with in the past didn't quite have the horsepower these do.


Looking again at this, I think it probably needs re-emphasis that this is a perspective that takes for granted that the impulse of direction is comin from the largest most expansive energy system around. Excuse me, but you lost me here. What energy system do you mean, True Will or Abrahadabra?

It comes through you, on that level. THis helps to prioitize which directives are subordinated(nested) on which others... so for example the bacteria living in your intestive has as its true will to be part of that environment, to do its work... It is subordinate to you; it's larger context... on a larger scale you are not subordinated to the directives of this bacteria, but are alined with it; you yoke it's true will with various others in your being and then procede from there. As a person, the larger environment is the physical and social; the environment of society. Society's larger environment is the land, the planet... Beyond that, the Solar system, the Galaxy, the Universe... and so on. The more you can integrate the larger you become, spiritually speaking... The larger you become (truly), the smaller you become, as well; since the 'bead' of your trajectory gets tighter and more focused, like a lazer...This is such a vivid description Anibis. I had to read it several times to really understand what you were communicating here. It gets so hard sometimes with the integration. Lazers!

[Anibis]

I will address this soon. Sorry I didn't catch it till now...
-Anibis-

[Naomi]

Aw no sweat man, thanks for writing it, just some random thoughts you know.

[Fio Praeter Humanus]

When I wrote my first post I wasn't exactly correct on true will. It was my best guess at the time or worst case I was talking out my ass. I now know better. When you know your true will suddenly everything in your life that has ever happened suddenly makes sense. All your interests that have nothing to do with each other, you will discover the link that brings them together. You will find you have been trending along a course you never saw but it was there all along.

It is like you have been working your way through the forest just bumbling along but suddenly you realize you are following a over grown path. Once you discover the path you can now follow it clearly without straying off.

[Anibis]

Gradually disparate momentums conjoin and flow into a single stream. In retrospect everything plays a role.
-Anibis

[fr.novumorganum]

that's an excellent post Nero. To know; to will.....

[KCh]

I have typically held the view that what is True is Pure.

"For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."


-The Book of the Law I-44

(44 is the number of blood and has a special relevance to Horus. Life is the Gnosis and the Blood is the Life. True Will, therefore like a stream, is the Blood. The Blood makes its course by virtue of the Spirit of Breath. 4 being the number of Tetragrammaton it is multiplied by the number of Magick Power 11. The Blood therefore is an equilibrium of all four elements in Unity. I could go on for quite awhile but I digress.)

Anyone who refers to Samahdi as a 'tool' has not experienced it. Understanding the place of the Ass is one thing, mastering it and riding it into Jerusalem is quite another; the vital difference between Understanding and Wisdom(or Gnosis).

[m1thr0s]

Anyone who refers to Samahdi as a 'tool' has not experienced it. Understanding the place of the Ass is one thing, mastering it and riding it into Jerusalem is quite another; the vital difference between Understanding and Wisdom(or Gnosis).hmmm...sorry, but that comment smacks of self-righteousness somehow. Samadhi is really an experience and an experience can be taken as a tool, though I admit the usage is unusual...but experiences very often are tools that shape our future thoughts and actions.

So I think it's simply a question of semantics on this one.

It's good to see you again KCh...I've missed your posting here...

m1