The Osho Phenomenum...

[m1thr0s]

Osho (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osho#Osho.27s_philosophy), formerly Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, baffles the hell out of me. I have skimmed a number of his books in the past and listened to some of his taped lectures etc and I really just don't get it.

This is not an especially remarkable man...his spiritual insights are really rather trivial (or were...he's been dead since 1990) yet here is an individual that people flocked to in tremendous droves and even nearly 20 years after his death the Osho phenomenum continues to grow at alarming rates. At one point his personal financial holdings were estimated in excess of 250 million dollars and the man owned no less than 90 Rolls Royces, with his devotees committed to obtaining him a Rolls Royce for every day of the year. That was probably 25 years ago or more...who knows what his estate is worth today.

I have a friend who just got back from Mysore India who reports that Osho is an even bigger phenomenum after his death than he was while alive, despite having been deported from the US for fraud and dirty politics. It's really hard to get deported from the US for that sort of thing...it's normally considered entrepreneurial and afforded tax-breaks and government grants...

Anybody want to explain to me how this is possible? Are people really just so godamm stupid that somebody can come along and tell them whatever they want to hear and they will spend any amount of money and spare no personal sacrifice of any kind just to make that person filthy stinking rich?

I don't get it. What kind of world is this? This was not a brilliant man...he was no genius and he brought nothing of any lasting value into this world. He was a media guru from start to finish and to this day there aren't very many people who can even afford to spend a whole week at his extremely luxurious "spiritual resort (http://www.osho.com/Main.cfm?Area=MedResort&Language=English)" in Pune, India.

I need to understand this because I need to understand why people will spare nothing to bolster certain individuals who can do nothing at all for them while doing everything in their power to suffocate and destroy those very few who actually can. Something is very wrong in this world at a very core level of its being. This is more disturbing to me than an Adolph Hitler, since this at least I can understand...this is something that was born out of a crisis situation that got way out of control.

But the Osho phenomenum isn't necessary...it is not a response to anything real or urgent on any level. It appears to be about nothing at all but simple escapism...escape into a fantasy world notion of enlightenment itself.

Maybe someone can explain it to me because I really don't get it and I find it extremely depressing. There must be something going on here I can use in some way but mostly it causes me to feel as though this world really just isn't worth the effort. If it's a godamm nuthouse, as it appears to be...I want to know that and not waste any more time on it than it deserves.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

I thought Osho was cool...he was funny as hell

http://quotepocket.blogspot.com/2006/11/video-osho-on-word-fck.html

Also he had some good things to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBEIeRSLb8k

I think that perhaps most of his work is not meant for us, but instead for the portion of people who can afford it, and who have been given enough money and life circumstances to apply themselves to this program.

I consider Osho to be an ally, and not an enemy though, even though I don't particularly need much he has to say...he certainly wasn't a Hitler...

Your answer is right there, in your question. his very trivial insights...that's what the humans are ready for. They're not ready for Abrahadabra or dimensional shifting or mutations...we're not even ready for each other, as the experts on each of our chosen areas, to tell you the truth.

Personally I prefer to stand in the shadows and work on the machine itself, and not the people living in it.

I do not think I would be here if there wasn't a whole lot wrong with this world.

[m1thr0s]

I do not think I would be here if there wasn't a whole lot wrong with this world.well that makes sense. There are two things Osho is most noted for which is his trance-dance techniques (which he calls dynamic meditation) and his philosophy of sexual freedom, such that he is often referred to as the sex-guru etc... In general he has been a proponent of self-responsibility although his followers are definitely "followers" in the usual brain-dead sense of the word, so I don't know that I buy into that so much...

Unfortunately what I really see going on here is simple entertainment. Osho is/was an entertainer...a "funny" guy as you say...a kind of comedian in his own right. Many of his ideas are both valid and timely in a very general sort of way but there is not much meat there really...he leaves that up to individuals. This is fine save that it omits to assume any real responsibility for either asking or answering any of the hard questions in life. It's all showbiz, basically...

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

I was first introduced to Osho by a girl I was dating. She was a new-age, post hippie type who found great comfort in Osho's sayings. When I provided better material, like the tao-teh-ching, or the yi-jing-dao, she found these required too much interaction with (ie thinking about) to get anything out of, and magick, well that was just plain work.

I think the answer is found somewhere in that, or like what NC said, people are happy with trivial answers. Most people have these spiritual questions at their core, but resolving them in any way that is ultimately rewarding is far too much work, and lets face it, full of moments that to say the best are not comfortable. Far better to find a Rev. to tell us who to hate to make that feeling go away, or if we're more progressive, some guy who will give us painless platitudes.

Why do people read the Davinci Code and not Focault's Pendulum? Why read Dr. Phil instead of Dr. Reich? (hell, how may people even do the operations suggested in a RAW book, or even in a Tony Robbins' book).

I think I understand why you are posing this question M1; I think Anthony Robbins is a framework to look at rather that osho types.

[m1thr0s]

I think I understand why you are posing this question M1; I think Anthony Robbins is a framework to look at rather that osho types.There is something to be learned from the Osho phenomenum...I'm just not sure what it is exactly. I have known a few of his followers on a personal level and always found them more open to occult ideas than most. Yet they dance around the edges and never really take on anything very substantial. They seem content to hang out in their Osho paradise and leave it at that. In that sense his teachings have failed, since his people are not really going anywhere so much as they are just dancing around in circles...

I think I am interested in how to unravel some of the barriers and blockages I see going on with respect to more substantial kinds of knowledge...these can definitely be more challenging as well as more threatening, but I don't know why they should be necessarily. It may all be a problem with presentation...

Tony Robbins??? I don't think I have the teeth for it...lol...

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

you may not have the teeth, but you do have the eye :cool:

I dunno, I still think his institute is a model worth looking at for how to transmit.

[MythMath]

...as they are just dancing around in circles...
That, in itself, is a vast improvement over
what most people find themselves doing... :yes:

(Or not doing) :rolleyes:

[m1thr0s]

I dunno, I still think his institute is a model worth looking at for how to transmit.well...I'll check it out although most of his stuff makes me want to wretch. That's got nothing to do with his marketing structure though. I'm kind of scamming out the scammers these days...not to be one or anything...just to try to sort out why their stuff works as well as it does, purely at the level of the numbers. Both Osho & Robbins are peddling self-empowerment in one way or another so their action is going to have some relevance on that basis alone...

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Osho knew how to interface with people. It's like, you can't put an Opteron processor in a funky Tandy and expect it to jive together.

SO you need to be able to package information in a way that people can absorb.

If something is too complicated or high level they will get discouraged and feel "bad". and then they will associate you with feelings of insignificance and inadequacy.

So m1thr0s start a cool cult and build an ashram, I'll join and help dumb down evocation for people.

[Ratatosk]

What I remember of the "Rajneeshies" when I lived in Central Oregon: they would come to town in their pink and red clothes, with 10-12 piled into a van or pickup and hit the grocery stores once a month.

They would sell flowers and pass out pamphlets to try to get new recruits and then leave again. Mostly they acted like they were completely zombies.

Cut to Stuttgart Germany, late 1980's: there was a club downtown called Zorba the Buddha's - a dance club owned and run by the Rajneeshies. They were playing the trancy rave music, mixed the drinks stiff and had a beautiful space with a marble dance floor that reverberated the base right up through your spine. Maybe that's what it comes down to - they know how to party and that's what most people are looking for: "Entertain me and make me happy!"

[m1thr0s]

So m1thr0s start a cool cult and build an ashram, I'll join and help dumb down evocation for people.hey, if I can sort it out you've got it. There's some very strategic steps to all of this...that's part of what I want to root out for the moment...

Osho & Robbins are both orators...big time orators...even their books come off more like conversations than anything else. So there is something to that in itself. It goes to that whole accessability idea.

Maybe that's what it comes down to - they know how to party and that's what most people are looking for: "Entertain me and make me happy!"That's certainly a part of it. Osho developed a whole doctrine around "fun", referring to it as "dynamic meditation", active meditation" and other such terms. He basically managed to get away with giving people permission to do what they wanted to do already in the name of spiritual development. This is a pretty clever strategy so far as it goes and isn't going to meet with a whole lot of resistance, save among the fundamentalists out there who still believe that if you aren't completely miserable, you aren't playing the game correctly. One of these actually attempted to assassinate Osho at one point...though it failed...

I'm not going to hate this guy...that's ridiculous. There is something important to be learned here...it's not really what I am about but then it may not even have been what he was about for that matter...we're talking about business tactics here really...big business...the business of communicating more than people actually want to know in a way they can manage to embrace it...

note: I am trying to find the source of a quote that pertains to this...some famous writer (I think) but I can't recall who and I only remember the quote in its approximation, which says:

I would like to write a book that would cause people to go where they otherwise would not willingly have gone...

Google is useless at some things...if anybody can connect this for me it would be most appreciated...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

How about Eugene Fodor...?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fodor%27s_Travel_Guides

[m1thr0s]

hmmm...doesn't ring any bells. somehow I was under the impression it was from a well known fiction writer such as Philip K Dick or possibly a movie director such as Stanley Kubrick or somebody like that...aaarrgghhh...driving me crazy now...

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

Huh, that quote came up blank in a few bartelby engines here, so its not a well circulated canonical writer. I'll ask in the department.

[Amur]

Some say it's the morphogenic fields that are fucked up. Some indigenous people say that when man gets cut off from nature his spirituality dies. For me the Earth is calling and dragging me away from the cities. I do feel something approaching soon which will be the beginning of the end. Seems to me that the system rather wants brainless robots who do their work without asking questions than creative, clearly and free thinking individuals.

I'm starting to wonder what the fuck I'm doing here. Feels like I'm stuck between religious "too-goodie-individuals" and common humans who all share the same boat without realizing that it's all going to hell. Feels like I can't connect with anyone here on a deeper level except in spiritual circles. My only friend that I've ever got a very deep connection, got infested by the same tamasic energies that have been plaguing me for over 3 years and that thrive in this current society. He died after a couple of weeks and I was flabbergasted. Got the feeling that he was interrupting from delivering his message here. Given the right enviroment and setting he would've been an incredible genius on many levels.

Encountered so much weird resistance on so many levels that the enviroment has fooled me to believe in it that it is a common human thing. Then again reflecting back on how children and how open they are, it is more like a learned issue. Tamasic values are held high here and sattvic values are frowned upon and even suffocated.

In 2003 when Divinity acted through me with a purpose of helping humanity, I got ridiculed, bashed, abused, put into a mental hospital with an intent to destroy me and my life. Ever since the event happened, it feels like I've been somekind of victim on many levels.

Someone said that things have to get a whole lot worse before they can get better. I'll continue this post later and try to get out what I was going to say.

[m1thr0s]

I'm starting to wonder what the fuck I'm doing here.for some reason that statement reminds me of a scene in the Last Samurai...the captured Nate Algren is brought before his captor Katsumoto and demands to know "what the hell am I doing here?", to which Katsumoto calmly replies "When spring comes and the snow melts, the passes will clear. Until that time, you are here."

There is a wisdom in this. Some things just are what they are and whether or not there may be any reasonable explanation is actually sort of meaningless and not worth belaboring. The fact remains, "you are here" and this can mean whatever you empower it to mean since in any case, this is where you are...

And I don't mean that in a critical way or to single anybody out...what reasonable person has not asked this question? But the answer may be more a matter of what you choose than what is already laid out in spades...

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

I had to laugh at this one:

Osho - Strange Consequences (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D7rWLzloOI)

I'm starting to get the hang of this. It's not as bad as I feared. It's good to sound out your own misgivings sometimes as a means to checking your own blind spots I think. It's mainly important not to rest on any unconfirmed assumptions.

I begin to think that what has happened here in my own case at least is that I have spent the better part of my life taking on issues deemed impossible to even some of the best minds on the planet. I have become accustomed to this. This is the norm for me, to such an extent that I have nearly lost track of where the vast majority of people are at...the kinds of prisons they live in and the blockages that are, for many, the very nature of "reality" as they experience it on a day-to-day basis...

The solution is alliance, not competition, nor condemnation. I would not in a thousand years be comfortable dealing at any other altitudes than are already best suited to my nature but I realize that it takes many steps to climb a very tall ladder. At some point I will probably need to ascertain how to form an alliance with someone effectively addressing the 190 rungs below the 10 (or more) I normally focus on the most...

How such a thing can even happen is a bit of a bafflement to me. It's not exactly "normal" but it works in its own peculiar way.

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

Fuckin' A... :p

[Radiant Star]

Since God is dead, are there any other choices besides f*ck*ng?

:eek: :rofl:

[Son of Mr. Gordo]

I'd like to add that Osho claimed to be a tantric practitioner, but he had never proven his lineage, and was never claimed by a tantric lineage. In the tantric inner circles, Osho was just a power/money hungry fool who plagarized books, and gave extremely poor advice on alchemical exercises. Tantric texts are written in "twilight language," and are decoded by teachers to students. One can't just plagarize books like Oshos' "Book of Secrets" and think they have a clue. He was an ignorant and dangerous person who ruined many peoples lives.

[m1thr0s]

He was an ignorant and dangerous person who ruined many peoples lives.The curious thing is that so many people are lined up to have him do so...still are actually even though he's been dead since 1990...

I may never fully understand this I guess.

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

It's the beard...

No, the eyes...

[Lucian]

I was thinking it was his snazzy clothes and fashion sense. I mean, don't you feel compelled to listen to the guy wearing shiny silver track suits to see what he has to say?

I mean... come on. It's shiny.

[m1thr0s]

It's the beard...

No, the eyes...hypnotist. you may be right MM. he was always very deliberate that way...

I was thinking it was his snazzy clothes and fashion sense. I mean, don't you feel compelled to listen to the guy wearing shiny silver track suits to see what he has to say?

I mean... come on. It's shiny.yeah...not to mention that throne-o-god chair he hauled around everywhere he went...

m1thr0s

[Dragon]

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c374/bomshiva/osho.jpg



You will go forth and buy me a new Rolls Royce...it must be red in color...with heated seats...and wipers on the headlights...you will go and do it.....NOW!!!


:bedazzled: :bedazzled: :bedazzled: :bedazzled: :bedazzled:


Yesss Bhagwan yessss!


:rofl: :laugh: :rofl:


~D~

[Amur]

Hypnotic Eyes atleast. Might be good to wear :cool: :laugh:

There's always osho's zen tarot (http://www.osho.com/Main.cfm?Area=Magazine&Sub1Menu=Tarot&Sub2Menu=OshoZenTarot&Language=English) which works quite well...

[Okazaki Castle]

Well, Osho was funny, and minimum effort, and basically just went around given people 'spiritual permission' to do what they wanted to do anyway: here, it's ok to have gratuitous sex, it's holy, we call it tantra, look it's a religion, so feel free all you bound-by-xtian morality western types. Plus the funny bit. That's important I think, people get bored listening to stuff they find boring, which, no surprises, is what most people find most esoteric material.

On the Tony Robbins thing, if you want to use his marketing approach as a model, his agent is in fact called Richard and is based in Cyprus, originally because of the offshore law, now because it's a good place to bring up children. I've checked in with him a few times, as he's quite an interesting and fun guy, and his basic attitude is: if you can present me with something mass-marketable (ie physically demonstrable which is likely to appeal to a large market base) then I'm potentially interested in representing you and arranging your affairs, eg seminars, lectures, etc. Peggy Dylan (the firewalker) and Simon Tresylian (sp?, a former Special Air Service officer and now Reiki teacher) are another two possible approaches to try, in terms of marketability.

For those who do have such a marketable package to put together I would be willing to arrange an introduction to Richard in return for a certain consideration/demonstration, but not without. All are free of course to try to approach him without an intro and see where it gets you, or take other routes or agents, or find someone else to arrange an intro for you. You may also research and verify that what I say on this is true. The vibe round here is skeptical towards me generally I feel, so fine, research. Or don't, and don't utilise potential options such as this...

Regards,
Okazaki Castle.

[Kain]

Well, Osho was funny, and minimum effort, and basically just went around given people 'spiritual permission' to do what they wanted to do anyway: here, it's ok to have gratuitous sex, it's holy, we call it tantra, look it's a religion, so feel free all you bound-by-xtian morality western types. Plus the funny bit. That's important I think, people get bored listening to stuff they find boring, which, no surprises, is what most people find most esoteric material.You know Okazaki, I think you've hit the nail on the head in quite many respects concerning this issue...!

Kain

[Dragon]

http://a3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/31/l_ca441811e499ac81639ae08df339e1ca.jpg




I said a RED Rolls Royce!



You have failed me...as penalty I must sleep with your wife!

[Kain]

I said a RED Rolls Royce!



You have failed me...as penalty I must sleep with your wife!...:laugh: :rofl: ...Absolutely hilarious...! I love the picture editing too...

Kain

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Osho's fairly big in Spain, but I never came across his cult in the UK or elsewhere in Europe. The Word is Fuck video is funny, but none of his stuff ever really appeared to me to be anything other than New Agey nonsense (and I got to observe some Osho workshops). Osho's success shouldn't really be that surprising, fools are easily parted from their money, and people will pay to have spiritual answers given to them without the need to engage their brains.

[m1thr0s]

It would be virtually impossible for most of us to use his example to good effect even if we wanted to since he plays to a very narrow niche market. Only rich idle Americans would be willing to exalt someone to the status of a spiritual master who had himself never studied under any spiritual masters, attained nothing under any formal school of any kind, nor even distinguishes himself as a self-made master of anything but a specialized form of comedy...

The Wiki article makes this clear. From his book Theologia Mystica, Chapter 6, Question 4, he states that that the only thing he was serious about in his discourses were the *jokes* – they were the *main thing*, and everything else was *spiritual gossip*. Reading through his numerous books it's easy to see that this pattern is very prevalent. This isn't just another one of his off-the-cuff statements but goes right to the heart of his whole methodology...this guy is a comedian, and he knows it. He's a clown who played on the spiritual tensions of the affluent for money, and made ludicrous amounts of money doing it...everything else...his *active meditation* techniques and all of that crap was just a way of buffeting his act...

m1thr0s

[niranjan]

I must say I disagree with this thread. Osho indeed has done a lot for elevating the spiritual, intellectual and cultural literacy of the world.

His books are among the most bestselling books in the world .


I myself has seen many, many intelligent , well educated people from all over the world coming to Oshos ashram, and they seemed perfectly happy and peaceful to me.

I myself have seen a german professor, in India, a few years back when I was a student, who was deeply interested in Osho, and was devoted to spreading his works. Similarly with a British intellectual and professor whom I have seen in a documentary on Osho, in bbc.

Similarly with many other intellectuals as well.


The reason why most americans cannot understand Osho , is because as a nation, they are just 2 centuries old, whereas India is milleniums old.

It takes a certain amount of cultural literacy and depth to understand Osho, and this is why mainly the europeans are the ones who are deeply into osho.
They have a strong tradition of culture and heritage in europe, which the americans lack, and which is manifest in their lack of grace, culture and finesse.

I love watching european cinema , especially french and italian, which are a marked contrast from american cinema. So too is their music and literature.

And music, literature, cinema indeed highlights the culture of a place or country.


There is a saying in the panchatantra , an ancient scripture of india.

A wise enemy is better than a foolish friend.

A foolish friend, trying to solve his friends problem makes a mountain out of a molehill of his friends problem.

And this lack of wisdom in the americans manifest also in their policies as well.

***Islamic Diatribe Removed***off-topic/preaching***check your PM please...m1thr0s

[Ci Celli Ddu]

The reason why most americans cannot understand Osho , is because as a nation, they are just 2 centuries old, whereas India is milleniums old.

It takes a certain amount of cultural literacy and depth to understand Osho, and this is why mainly the europeans are the ones who are deeply into osho.
They have a strong tradition of culture and heritage in europe, which the americans lack, and which is manifest in their lack of grace, culture and finesse.

To be brutally frank, this is a highly naive conclusion that speaks more of your personal biased world view than anything else.

[m1thr0s]

The reason why most americans cannot understand Osho , is because as a nation, they are just 2 centuries old, whereas India is milleniums old.talk about grabbing at straws...

considering that America really is a direct extension of European culture, I find this whole *only 200 years old* argument a little contrived and played out. In some contexts it may yet apply...when criticizing economic or political posturing for instance it makes pretty good sense. if you are attempting to criticize creative cultural trends themselves, this argument is simply absurd.

Osho has his qualities...he's pretty funny...he plays his part quite well...if he and/or his people had ever once attempted to do anything really useful with all his earnings I might think otherwise but I see no reason not to think he is mainly a circus act for the spiritually retarded...

but hey...spiritually retarded people need entertaining gurus I guess...:dunno:

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

It IS true that he is wildly popular in certain parts of India right now (even though he's actually quite dead). It doesn't have anything to do with the greatness of his teachings per se since none of that is real...Osho was not an especially brilliant man...he was a clever man but no genius by a longshot. His popularity lies elsewhere...

He didn't become such a hit in India until AFTER he was banned from the US and this has something to do with his newfound popularity there. He milked the American market for hundreds of millions of dollars until they finally kicked his ass out for fraud and shady business practices. That in itself makes him a legendary figure many east Indians would look up to.

India, despite its powerful spiritual traditions, is still an extremely repressed nation choking on its own traditions in more ways than just a few. When you ask Indian people why they like Osho so much they don't quote his books...they don't talk about his brilliant words of wisdom per se...they point to the *party* aspects of his whole act...the trance-dancing and the sexual freedom etc. They like this guy because he throws good parties...even though there is hardly any actual Indians that could even begin to afford to attend them...

He's also pretty good for the local economy and that's always sure to be a big hit in India which thrives on tourist dollars in a huge way...For many indigenous residents, asking them if they like Osho is about like asking them if they like to eat.

So yeah...he's a hit there alright...but not because of his actual teachings. You would be hard-pressed to find any locals who even knew what these might be.

Still...Osho is a huge phenomena and these things always interest me. I may run a thread on Joseph Smith for the same reason at some point, although mormonism rather nauseates me personally...but man...talk about fucking cash flow! They overtook the catholic church way back in the 60's and have been silently creeping their way forward ever since. It would be next to impossible to estimate their actual worth today...they may have more godamm money than the US Treasury...

mormonism is a cult you understand. they haven't got anything at all to do with christianity other than the fact that they are piggy-backing off its wake (slip-streaming is the proper term I guess). It doesn't matter what their people say...they're all brainwashed stupid. mormonism is a real-estate cult plain & simple. They made their money selling *celestial kingdoms* that (of course) don't exist anywhere on this earth since they are way too glorious to be housed here etc... People not only buy into this crap...they are willing to sell their own damn flesh and blood to do it! But that is definitely another thread...

m1thr0s