Quantum physics and the LHP

[Lucian]

"We are all one." That's what I keep hearing over and over again from starry eyed new age gurus, physicists, etc. They've been saying this for a very long time and now they have the science to prove it! Isn't it wonderful? Isn't it magical? Doesn't it fill you with warm fuzzies and make you want to go give your neighbors a big bear hug?

Yes, science does seem to suggest that at our most fundamental level we are indeed all part of the same quantum sea. If you look closely enough we are one not only with each other, but with everything that is, was, and will be in the entire universe since the Big Bang.

Leave it to me to be depressed by something that inspires everyone else.

I've never wanted one-ness. I don't want to be one with God. I don't want to be one with Nature. I don't want to be one with the Absolute. I don't want to be one with my fellow humans. If I could cut myself right out of the fabric of the universe and maintain my own dynamic individual existence, I would. Most of the world craves unity and one-ness and the dissolution of self. I crave separation and independence. I crave Self-ness.

I accept the scientific evidence suggesting that at a certain level we are one with everything. You could take that even further and say that at a certain level we cease to even exist at all. If I look at this without the sentimentality of these new age gurus and scientists insisting that this means we have found God and we must all love each other as we love ourselves and so on, I'm actually rather intrigued by this new information. How could I not be?

But what I am hearing is that because we are all one on a quantum level, we are necessarily all one on a spiritual or conscious level as well. Not only are we all one and completely inseparable, but God is real and it (because god is an "it" now and not a "he") is either some kind of ultimate observer, or a supposedly self aware field of energy at the foundations of everything that is, or whatever.

I don't know what is truly going on with all of this (I don't think anyone does), but I do know that I don't trust this version of the quantum universe that has become so popular. I sense a flaw but I can't yet put my finger on it.

Perhaps it is like the problem I have with the work of Dr. Masuro Emoto. In his experiments on how thoughts influence water molecules he discovered that thoughts actually can change the shape of the water crystals. Regular water blessed by monks took on a beautiful snowflake pattern. When thoughts like "YOU MAKE ME SICK I WILL KILL YOU" were focused on water molecules they lost that crystalline shape and became an indistinguishable mess. So of course books were published showing how good thoughts of love, thankfulness, beauty, god, piety, angels, etc. were for your body, as it is made up of 90% water, and how bad thoughts of anger, hate, violence, and so forth are. You can find them at any new age bookshop, and you can buy stickers of "THANK YOU" water crystals while you're at it.

But here's the thing... I know there is someone out there who can bless water with murderous thoughts and make those molecules every bit as beautiful as "THANK YOU" can. I know there are people out there who can make hatred and violence as pristine as peace and "The Chi of Love". It depends entirely upon the reaction of that particular person to the stimuli. It's completely subjective. "Devil" is a negative word for a Christian fundie, but a positive word for a Satanist. Even "I LOVE YOU" might turn into an ugly blob for someone who associates it with negative memories.

It's an interesting and useful start, but it is incomplete and in my opinion sloppy. I get the feeling there is a lot of this going on with popular "Ramtha" style quantum physics - which may not be and probably isn't true quantum physics.

What I am curious about:

What does this mean for the left-hand path, if anything? If science is maybe proving we're all a lot closer than we might have thought, in matter and possibly in consciousness, how does that effect the LHP practice of separating oneself from the "divine order"?

[m1thr0s]

Well, for what it's worth Lucian, I don't ascribe to all the "Oneness" tripe either. I think you have to keep in mind that what may be true of Matter is not necessarily true of Mind. "Oneness" at the level of Stuff does not equal Oneness at the level of Being. Science always seems to lean into popular trends, given enough time and persistent pressure. It is nevertheless completely unscientific to go from positing subatomic unification to spiritual indistinction. No one has any solid ground for drawing such correlations and the logical evidence at hand does not, in fact, very much support it.

I am a proponent of an Infinite Mystery Principle which I believe is the primary impetus to life in this universe but is also the glue that holds Infinity itself together. In a very real sense, this has always been the outstanding characteristic of the Tao, or rather, that which is called the Tao, since the thing named is not the thing itself and this inability of ever being truly understood is the outstanding hallmark of the Tao and always has been.

Science has a long way to go before it can make responsible assertions pertaining to the Tao...

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

But here's the thing... I know there is someone out there who can bless water with murderous thoughts and make those molecules every bit as beautiful as "THANK YOU" can. I know there are people out there who can make hatred and violence as pristine as peace and "The Chi of Love". It depends entirely upon the reaction of that particular person to the stimuli. It's completely subjective. "Devil" is a negative word for a Christian fundie, but a positive word for a Satanist. Even "I LOVE YOU" might turn into an ugly blob for someone who associates it with negative memories.


Y'know I don't accept that... The notion that all words and perspectives are just relative to the perciever doen't seem to me to do adequate credit to the fact that theyse concepts, words, perspectives and ideas have emerged from something pre-linguistic, pre-relative. Yes, all phenomena are different in appearance, but the very fact that you have the privaledge of making such a relativistic claim; that hate and love are just words and concepts that can be transposed with no difference to the contexts suggests to me that you are not moving from the concept to the energy the concept signifies... While I realize certain concepts do create their own realities, I would contend that this is true in a very limited sense, and that there is indeed a reality deeper than such. Love is a reality, as is hatred. They are modes of energy. One, in my opinion is far ritcher in its possible 'flowering' than the other. if you call 'Love' 'Hate', and 'Hate' 'Love', that's one thing, but I contend that in reality the energy pointed to by the sincere (non-pomo/ironic) application of the word love will have a markable different, and dare I suggest more desirable effect than that energy we term 'Hate'. This has been my empirical observation of the matter...
-Ibisis

[Naomi]

Hmm, I kind of took the whole "We're all one" philosophy as a really good excuse to have no remorse for being completely destructive in appropriate cases. If they're me I really have no reason not to be as harsh on them as I would be with myself...

[Anibis]

The Deleuzian approach to this is very interesting. He'd argue in the end that yes, it's all one (one substance), but what is One is the difference, and that's all; just seething, boiling agitating difference playing itself out in relation to itself, to itsother, and so on... Hard to just throw down is words, really, since our language is designed to form things into units. His technique is to basically overflow the sense of 'conceptual boundaries' created through words and platonisms and such, and come to a description of a common plane of existance if which we are NOT all one and the same... It's hard to 'get' what D is talking about, uless you recognize that he give Difference itself a positive existence, something we have gotten very used to ignoring in our habit of consitdering difference as only between 'things', or identities...
-Ibisis

[Copuldaemon]

"We are all one." -Some comedic clip I've seen over the weekend mentioned something to the effect of we are all one entitiy experiencing different things in subjectivity or something like that.

"I've never wanted one-ness. I don't want to be one with God. I don't want to be one with Nature. I don't want to be one with the Absolute. I don't want to be one with my fellow humans. If I could cut myself right out of the fabric of the universe and maintain my own dynamic individual existence, I would. Most of the world craves unity and one-ness and the dissolution of self. I crave separation and independence. I crave Self-ness."
-As far as I know that's what the Luciferian current's about; separation.

[Amur]

Being in one-ness, means for me atleast to be in unity and harmony with myself and my subtle bodies. It generates alot of energy and if one can resonate with aspects outside, it can create quite the effect. Might be harder in a city enviroment, or then one just knows what to energetic aspects to pull the strings on.

I don't buy this common 'cliche' oneness either. If it's oneness then it needs to take in consideration all individual aspects, including my own unique spirit and so forth. Nature comes in diversity, why wouldn't it be like that on other levels also? Believe that this oneness has more to do with psychological things corresponding to the mind. There are times when I've been farthest into the symbolical/dream aspect of the mind and it apparently interprets my whole life as My Dream, meaning that I'm God and everyone else are Me, playing for Myself. Not sure yet how to keep the state as it's quite fun to be in.
`
Had a disease now for a couple of years where I'm 'one' with the external enviroment signals, which just makes me prone to negativity and all weird kinds of spirit diseases and possessions. Might also be a form of schizophrenia, ugh. All of course coming from subtle responses of the external enviroment imposed upon the internal one. Funny thing is that healing occurs everytime I get to go to nature. The natural energy is much more benevolent in everyway than most God-type of vibes I've met.

[Kain]

Being in one-ness, means for me atleast to be in unity and harmony with myself and my subtle bodies. It generates alot of energy and if one can resonate with aspects outside, it can create quite the effect. Might be harder in a city enviroment, or then one just knows what to energetic aspects to pull the strings on.

I don't buy this common 'cliche' oneness either. If it's oneness then it needs to take in consideration all individual aspects, including my own unique spirit and so forth. Nature comes in diversity, why wouldn't it be like that on other levels also? Believe that this oneness has more to do with psychological things corresponding to the mind. That's how I view this matter also Amur. In fact, I think that the whole problem of the nature of Oneness is one of the nature of semantics, but a necessary one however, regardless. Due to the fact that we are approaching a height/loftiness of unreconcilable subtlety, the qualitative jump we are witnessing cannot in any way be described in it's valid entirety with our definitions from this side of the equation. It can only be approximately hinted at, and the best way to accurately hint it (or even mentally perceive it, at least in a mentally describable fashion) is Oneness. One cannot perceive the definition of space in 3 dimensions when one's mental faculties currently consciously occupy only 2. In the same way, this would occur with any major and unreconcilable qualitative difference. Another example I often bring up is that of comparing the physical with the astral plane. If one has experience with both planes, and attempts to bridge that gap between them, how exactly is that bridging process defined? I think "Oneness" would be at the very top of my list, as the astral has an ability to transcend physical space effortlessly (as perceived in various psychic abilities such as elementary psychokinetics, clairvoyance etc) but also directly affect it. So it is accessible from physically everywhere and has direct access to physically everything else (if one knows how to utilize it to the maximum of it's efficiency). And still, while possessing all those transcendant abilities that can only be defined from a strictly physical perspective as a cosmic void or Oneness that encompassess all diversified existance, we find that after tuning ourselves to the astral environment, diversity is equally present. The only way to explain it is a qualitative jump of conscious perception, the nature of which canot be properly defined nor explained with what we possess before making that jump. We only see something infinitely all pervasive and cohesive on the other side, but can in no way define it fully in it's own terms, not until attaining it ourselves.

This relationship, a quite prevalent one in various fields of comparison, is what I believe to be also taking place in a way in the relationship between Microcosm and Microcosm. Thus, Oneness should be embraced while still acknowledging it's ultimate semantical "error" but also realizing that it's the best way to define a qualitative jump of conscious perception so vast, that it is not describable equally well in any other way from our current standpoint.

Kain

[Amur]

The semantics, atleast in my brain, is bound to get fucked up if I unify myself with external signals, perhaps it's the process of doing something which makes it cluttered, as when in a state of true oneness, I am already in a state of non-doing and simply just exist. Imo we need stable techniques/mappings that bring this state down to our normal mundane activities. Perhaps making a resonance in the below with the above would do it, but how to translate the higher frequencies so that they correspond to the lower frequencies is something which is atleast for me a bit problematic. Had instances when I constantly meditated on God which propelled me light years above the surrounding frequencies, which in turn made me register everything as 'demonic' (stupid category, need to change that hehe), was fun to be at a shopping center and see everything as demonic, food and everything lol. Without the necessary technique to tie it down to the lowest frequency, it's quite unnecessary and not enough imo to ascend this universe.

I say that tie the whole thing directly into a mapping which goes all the way from the macrocosmos to the microcosmos and beyond in both aspects. Naturally it would go through the subtle bodies and link to the physical body and why not through every cell and the dna and so forth. This kind of construction should be quite fucking rock solid :solar: (Ahh that sentance felt good with pantera playing in the background). Trees and living plants are quite good at this in my own opinion.

[Kain]

The semantics, atleast in my brain, is bound to get fucked up if I unify myself with external signals, perhaps it's the process of doing something which makes it cluttered, as when in a state of true oneness, I am already in a state of non-doing and simply just exist. I've had this happen quite a lot and know the feeling. It's the paradox of the action through stillness, or "Something from Nothing" that needs to be periodically understood and utilized through Oneness. Influencing Below without encapsulating yourself in the Below more than necessary. It's a most peculiar maneuver, I think you're well on the right track from your description though.
Imo we need stable techniques/mappings that bring this state down to our normal mundane activities. Perhaps making a resonance in the below with the above would do it, but how to translate the higher frequencies so that they correspond to the lower frequencies is something which is atleast for me a bit problematic. Systems approaching Oneness typically try to do just that. Since you're into Kundalini yoga among other things, I would suggest Pranayama, and most importantly Kumbhaka (Breath Retention). The state of mind needed to tranquilize the bodily functions enough for the retention to be sustained for long periods of time pretty much requires the consciousness to be squarely placed in a one-pointed state in a huge extent, otherwhise irregularities occur and this is not possible. Had instances when I constantly meditated on my God construct which propelled me light years above the surrounding frequencies, which in turn made me register everything as 'demonic' (stupid category, need to change that hehe), was fun to be at a shopping center and see everything as demonic, food and everything lol. Story of my life as far as my own tendencies go...hehe...so yeah, tell me about it :rolleyes:

Without the necessary technique to tie it down to the lowest frequency, it's quite unnecessary and not enough imo to ascend this universe.

I say that tie the whole thing directly into a mapping which goes all the way from the macrocosmos to the microcosmos and beyond in both aspects. Naturally it would go through the subtle bodies and link to the physical body and why not through every cell and the dna and so forth. This kind of construction should be quite fucking rock solid :solar: I think that it's a matter of maintaining the correct state without obstructions and allowing it to "flow" down unimpeded, mostly. Internal semantics is our bigger problem, even our mental concept and understanding of Oneness is too gross and personally contrived. As long as that remains in that flawed state, our projections are also ultimately flawed. Macrocosm and Microcosm are essentially functioning through a uniform pattern, and this uniform pattern allows Onepointed consciousness to traverse both without problem. So it's a matter of subtlety of the concept/principle utilized (and realized), and how close to that state it can reach (and thus gain access to both aspects, and also beyond).

Kain

[Okazaki Castle]

But here's the thing... I know there is someone out there who can bless water with murderous thoughts and make those molecules every bit as beautiful as "THANK YOU" can. I know there are people out there who can make hatred and violence as pristine as peace and "The Chi of Love".


Ah, the mysteries of beauty. They are wonderful are they not? Few people can see the beauty in such things, but I am pleased that some do :)


What I am curious about:

What does this mean for the left-hand path, if anything? If science is maybe proving we're all a lot closer than we might have thought, in matter and possibly in consciousness, how does that effect the LHP practice of separating oneself from the "divine order"?Feynman's work on Sum over Paths. Take it further. What determines which path is taken and how choice fits together? Easier to do thru meditation than mathematics. More practically applicable on a personal basis in day-to-day life that way too...

all the best,
OC.

[deviadah]

This is a very interesting thread. I will give my view on this...

I never thought of Oneness as a hype. I felt it all my life. Although there are different kinds of Oneness and Mind and Matter Oneness are two different things, but of course nothing is as black and white as that.

I have always seen - and felt - a Oneness with nature and I don't need any scientific proof of this. But beliefs are like that I guess.

Plants, animals and even rocks speak to me on an atomic level. I sense a union with them. Especially mountains. They are not dead at all. Stones certainly is not.

To be aware of being a part of Everything does not mean I have an obligation to anyone. If I murder someone I murder myself is not really true... more then that I murder a part of me I dislike - like getting rid of a bad habit.

:cool:

[Drakonach]

See in my signature I have a phrase that says "We are 1 and always 0" this actually came to me through a working i did with Doombringer, using him as a gate so to speak and able to transverse multiple angles...anyway the point is that through some major khaos pathworkings I had found that yeah we may be one on some minute molecular level, its our consciousness that makes us separate. After all there is no getting away from the fact that we're all made up of the same stuff molecularly..thats what makes us 1 with the rest of existance, but our consciousness and the paths we choose are what brings the 0, separation/no thing. Hope this makes sense... It was a little hard for me to grasp when it first hit me, but it makes perfect sense to me now.

[Naomi]

Can you also see 1 dissolving into 0 through entropy or some other machination? I can. It really almost seems like a way of saying

from the great mother we all came, and to her we will return

or

from nothing came the supreme absolute, singularity

great minds will filter through cheap chaos archetypes, this is certainly true, they can and will take all of the opportunities they can, especially if they're thrifty...and the big ones get first pickings so if you happen to hit on an especially appealing image such as doom bringer here, you might attract a very large old mind indeed.

[Drakonach]

http://khaos.plaguestudios.org/khaos/content/index.php?id=53 this is the link to the transmission i had received by way of doombringer.. there are also a few other things throughout the site here and there.. To me DB has become as a consciousness of khaos, khaos being the essence from which all evolved from and all contains... It has to do with some personal philosophies involving the ideals of Dark Matter and Khaos..when i have more time i will try to expound on it.

[Naomi]

I'm suspect of this line in particular:

"I became dissatisfied during the latter millennium of your species, they shunned my consciousness, labeled it evil and destroyed all who would dare to commune with me. I believe those Kemetic peoples were the last ones to honestly show reverence to my understandings. It was not the fact that they labeled it evil, because it does serve a purpose. It was the fact that the later peoples of your world would sever themselves so far away that they labeled everything as bad and evil.. Even the good stuff. Knowledge took on the monicker of evil.."

These really potent beings are not so limited to call a whole group of people special, as we know just as humans, individuals are far more negative and chaotic than whole civilizations, and the Egyptians ARE glamorous but not faultless. They had their own little neurotic compulsions and absurd ideas. So no, I don't think I'll be adopting another bible yet, thank satan....

Either way, I know for certain no being at that level of existence as it claims speaks in english anyways, it's a whole other dimension of sound and touch and physical manifestation rarely if ever seen until the mind is absolutely free of human debris, including "Kemetic" people. I think I want to hear more of whoever is speaking behind this veil though, My guess is the intentions are good even with the weavings of falsehood throughout. Some chaotes just never listen to complete truth....

I will never call myself a chaos magician again. They're too far behind the times.

[Drakonach]

Well this came through and was how his consciousness was able to translate to me by way of my own vocabulary. I was a Kemetic reconstructionist for many years prior to finding my way into khaos, ever since that time I never referred to those peoples as Egyptians any longer.

I do agree with you that the Kemets were not without their own faults, just look at what had befallen Akhenaten when he tried to diverge from the set path of polytheism and make Kemet a one god country. Even though there are some truths in part to that line of thinking, its not the whole truth..

I really wish Sheo would publish my article I had written from an angular experience I had while working with Doombringer one weekend.. It involved sleep deprivation, caffeine, a shamanic drumming circle, and something akin to a death gnosis. Strangely enough though I'm not the only one thats worked with Doombringer and experienced a gate phenomena with him. If anything it brought me to a far deeper understanding of what i like to call quantum khaos..

Funny enough, ever since I read a book called Join My Cult by James Curcio I like to call myself a neurosurgeon.. I never could get into the whole paradigm shifting and whatnot, i just like to mess with the perceptions of reality and bring khaos (not chaos) into manifestation.