Delusion

[Lucian]

In most religions, philosophies, initiatory schools, etc. there is at least some emphasis placed on the identification and destruction of delusion. Every school and every sect has their own idea of what this Delusion is and how to counter it with truth or reality. However, it seems to me that what counts as a delusion for one group is usually counted as the truth for another. Everyone who is not a part of this or that religion or school of thought is typically deemed delusional.

This being the case, I wonder how one is supposed to be able to identify and counteract their own delusions within their lives and their psyches? I've never been comfortable with someone telling me that such and such is a delusion or flaw in my psyche that I need to eliminate in order to progress spiritually, and so on. Why? Because they said so.

I've heard such things all my life, and generally they have been wrong. So naturally I mistrust anyone trying to tell me what is and isn't real or right.

I do agree that in order to evolve and grow a person has to be "real" and be critical of their own delusions. But how do I ascertain whether or not I am deluding myself about something when there are so many ideas of what is real or unreal within the psyche and the world at large? Is that even really possible?

Is the problem that we look outside ourselves for someone to tell us what is real or false about who we are? And if we look within, how can we tell the difference between a truth and a lie?

[m1thr0s]

I'm not sure there's a neat clean answer to that one Lucian. Personal authenticity is sort of a process more than it is a quantitative measure of any kind. Seems like the more bullshit you get past, the more mountains of it there are yet to be dealt with. Somehow I feel like it's more about a commitment to the whole process of eventually becoming a bs-free-zone than it is assuming some posture or another that is somehow supposed to automatically rendere you one. If people don't even really know who the hell they are, how can any of them be all that damn real?

But at least knowing that you're full of shit is being pointed in the right direction I think. It's the people who don't even seem to know this that I hold in the highest amount of suspicion and distrust personally...

m1thr0s

[Edit]

I agree with you, Lucian (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/member.php?u=68) , on this - Delusion.

All is - geometry

gai-geo-ego

so....
...you may say

All is - EGO-metry

HERE SEE >


http://www.crystalinks.com/36eyeamulet.gifEye Symbology


Everything is myth, math, and metaphor, laced with 'eye' symbology in the matrix of time.
All things are viewed through an eye of creation - conscious creation - projected illusion in the alchemy of time.
Everything sweeps forth from the 'eye' - experience consciously - then returns to the eye as the patterns of reality create and recreate in loops - think spiraling galaxies.
Eyes are windows to soul experience - think virtual reality. The eye is a lens which allows us to see and become consciously aware of our experiment in third dimension. The eye has a pupil. We are pupils/students in a university experiencing consciously through the lens of time or virtual reality.

Eye - UFO Description

http://www.crystalinks.com/ufoeye.jpg

From the ancient Egyptian Mystery Schools Teachings (http://www.crystalinks.com/mysteryschools.html) - the Flower of Life (http://www.crystalinks.com/floweroflife.html) - we find Horus (http://www.crystalinks.com/horus.html) and the Eye of Horus. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Horus) All is created by sacred geometry or patterns that repeat in loops - fibonacci spirals - the movement of consciousness in a cone shaped manner. Horus - Hours - Time - Thoth (http://www.crystalinks.com/thoth.html)-- thought and consciousness -- and Isis (http://www.crystalinks.com/isis.html)- Eye - 'I'.

http://www.crystalinks.com/eyehorusI.gif


From Egypt we find the All Seeing Eye (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence) http://www.crystalinks.com/allseeingeye.gif
The Great American Seal
Masonic [Mother Sound] Program - Harmonics of Creation
http://www.crystalinks.com/eye.html


I like this explanation of ego [ Ego - The False Center (http://deoxy.org/egofalse.htm) ] From Beyond the Frontier of the Mind by Osho



***article removed***
Note: Edit...that was an oppressively long article for a discussion forum. Don't copy over huge articles like that when a simple link will suffice it please. We all know how to follow links and there's no need to duplicate all that verbage. Isolated clips or quotes to illustrate specific points are fine. We encourage members speaking in their own voices around here. Please don't turn out to be yet another neurotic cut & paste cadet...

m1thr0s
site owner

[m1thr0s]

gee that's funny...I smell troll meat...

so long asshole...

m1thr0s

[Amur]

But at least knowing that you're full of shit is being pointed in the right direction I think. It's the people who don't even seem to know this that I hold in the highest amount of suspicion and distrust personally...


Funny you mention it hehe. Lately came to the same conclusion and only when I accepted that I'm a shithead/asshole did I actually get the whole aspect into a positive light. And it felt real good to be myself, instead of having to show off that I'm supposedly such a great guy. I rather be a complete asshole and know it, work on it, than be a hypocritic asshole living a god damn lie.

The more rules the less freedom of movement there is. Here we have some rules of gravity, food, and so on, but other than that we are quite free to roam about. Then comes in the social, cultural and clan rules. From there comes perhaps the personal rules and so forth. Removing some rules might give a better oppurtunity of viewing through the reality lens. Also categorizing the rules can help quite a bit. Rules when being alone in the nature for example might be different than when sitting at a dinner party at your family/relatives. Scrap the crap and it should work out :laugh:. After a while it might become more about designing artistically how you want to be more than striving to find oneself.

There's a technique/tactic that I'm using for digging out delusion but it's a very long process as it involves around going through every type of suppressed emotion that has ever occurred. Larger clusters of suppressed emotions, called traumas, tend to distort ones image of self. By going through the trauma, accepting it and expressing the trapped feelings, it clears out the image. The clearer the image the stronger the self becomes. Then again it might be good to let ones own natural process deal with it.

Feelings tend to need to be expressed internally/externally, not expressing feelings tend to make them distort. Suppressing aspects of oneself tend to make them come up in weird patterns and phenomenoms. If you get a chance in a dreamstate to go into 'shadow areas' of yourself, try it out. It's a great way to encounter fears and hidden aspects of yourself.

In the end build your tower on solid rock ground, if the building crashes down it can only mean that the model/aspect wasn't accurate enough. One viewpoint of delusion imo comes from disconnected aspects feedbacking on themselves, feeding themselves in distorted 'knowledge'. Ffs! I must be flying far-out argh :eek: Impeccability of ones own actions and feelings should make one go quite far already.

ps. I like hard critic as it makes boundaries quite clear, if I'm writing a lot of shit, which tends to happen, please go ahead and say so. Nothing is worse than a child without boundaries lol.

[Okazaki Castle]

This is maya, all is delusion, all is a lie. The key is: how do you control lies?

If mind is created from Spirit and matter is created from mind, what are the implications, what the consequences?

all the best,
OC.

[Naomi]

Obsession is much worse, I think....and entropy a close second, sneaking up behind the obsessed...

Good thoughts, OC....

Maya is beautiful though, it is a pretty holodeck....

Live long and prosper...

[Amur]

This is maya, all is delusion, all is a lie. The key is: how do you control lies?


There is a formula that repeats itself in many many places and instances, it isn't a lie and it gives the most to everything. You don't control it but go along with it in all directions that can be taken. It's my viewpoint of Teh.

[Radiant Star]

I think the important thing is not to become too attached to anything. This seems to be true for all areas of life.

So if its people, we need not to become too attached so that we are too swayed by them and lose our individuality but attached enough to be able to care for them and give and receive love or friendship or work with them.

If its an idea or belief, involved enough to be able to gain benefit from it, but still open to new ideas or free enough to be able to let go and grow when the next step is needed.

Most of the problems we encounter as human beings seem to be because we have become too attached to something and we are so close as to be under the cloud of illusion rather than to see it hovering over us.

[Lucian]

This is maya, all is delusion, all is a lie. The key is: how do you control lies?

If mind is created from Spirit and matter is created from mind, what are the implications, what the consequences?

all the best,
OC.

See the first paragraphs of my post. This is just more of the same.

I'm not looking for someone to tell me, once again, what is real and what I should hold to be true. I don't want or need a religion, philosophy or personality outside my own to dictate to me what is real and what is not, what is truth and what is a lie.

If I wanted that, I'd just go follow someone else's religion rather than trying to build my own.

What I want to discuss is possible methods one might use to test their reality and their own psyche to see what will hold up against intense scrutiny. Whatever remains after such rigorous testing must surely be closer to truth than all of the assumptions about who we are and how the world works that we just pick up from here and there and more or less parrot without really questioning.

I'm not sure there's a neat clean answer to that one Lucian. Personal authenticity is sort of a process more than it is a quantitative measure of any kind. Seems like the more bullshit you get past, the more mountains of it there are yet to be dealt with. Somehow I feel like it's more about a commitment to the whole process of eventually becoming a bs-free-zone than it is assuming some posture or another that is somehow supposed to automatically rendere you one. If people don't even really know who the hell they are, how can any of them be all that damn real?

Exactly. It's this process of becoming a bs-free-zone that interests me. I know you can't really have a set methodology for something that is necessarily unique to each individual. But perhaps there is a system that might help someone to create a methodology for themselves?

How do you sort through bs, m1thr0s? What is your process?

[Lucian]

I think the important thing is not to become too attached to anything. This seems to be true for all areas of life.

So if its people, we need not to become too attached so that we are too swayed by them and lose our individuality but attached enough to be able to care for them and give and receive love or friendship or work with them.

If its an idea or belief, involved enough to be able to gain benefit from it, but still open to new ideas or free enough to be able to let go and grow when the next step is needed.

Most of the problems we encounter as human beings seem to be because we have become too attached to something and we are so close as to be under the cloud of illusion rather than to see it hovering over us.

Good points, Ricci. I've been able to test these over and over again, so I can definitely agree that these things are true.

[m1thr0s]

How do you sort through bs, m1thr0s? What is your process?The only way I know of to effectively train yourself against your own bs is to set up a discipline of some kind that won't tolerate it. Depending upon how much of the rest of life is involved in that discipline will determine to a large extent how much of the lessons you learn will carry over to other aspects of your life. But you have to be testing yourself in some way or you will lose sight of the rules, start making up your own rules and pretty soon there's no rational difference between what you imagine to be real and what is real. And this is the condition we call being full of shit. People who are full of shit generally don't know that they are full of shit since it's been so long since they ever actually tested their shit against anything real.

Now it may come as a shock, considering that magick seems to be a complete escape from reality for so many, but I have found that the whole process of "perfecting your magickal universe" as they say, can, in fact, provide a very real and a very all-encompassing "test" of personal authenticity in general. But in order for this to be the case, I think you have to enter into things with an ability to at least distinguish real from unreal to begin with. If it's all just some fucking word game you play with yourself anyway...it probably won't make any significant difference but only actually make things worse. If you are somehow able to commit to reality itself on a universal scale, it can be a very demanding test of personal authenticity.

m1thr0s

[Amur]

I think you have to enter into things with an ability to at least distinguish real from unreal to begin with. If it's all just some fucking word game you play with yourself anyway...it probably won't make any significant difference but only actually make things worse. If you are somehow able to commit to reality itself on a universal scale, it can be a very demanding test of personal authenticity.


A question again pops up, what is real and what is unreal, who defines it? Do I see from my own reality, is it my inherited reality from my parents/childhood, or perhaps I see it from my cultural reality and so forth. I agree that making certain relations to each other, one can get an average and move with that average toward a direction. Or if one has any type of inertia involved, one can use that inertia to get a pull or push to some direction. A problem kicks in though, if the average world structures are filled with shit, why the hell should I follow it?

[m1thr0s]

A problem kicks in though, if the average world structures are filled with shit, why the hell should I follow it?who knows, but the *world* and the *human world* are not the same things. The world itself is a reliable guage of what is real at the level of the world, and in many cases, at the level of whole universe as well. Temporal nature and Celestial nature are linked and most of the rules that apply *below* also apply *above*, so the trick is coming to think holistically, rather than atomistically. Authenticity embraces wholes, inauthenticity recoils from them...

m1thr0s