Satanism & Autism...

[m1thr0s]

This is just way out there stuff but it has the *ring of truth* to it somehow (a friend has got me hooked on that damn term now and I can't seem to shake it)...

In the back of my mind I have been trying to sort out what may actually give rise to Satanism on a biological level because I am convinced of the notion that certain people really are "born satanists", as Anton LaVey used to assert. I have experienced this myself...I never really went looking for Satanism...who the hell would do a stupid thing like that? What do you want to be when you grow up? Oh, I guess I'd like to be a completely culturally disenfranchised sort of person! If I could be poor as shit because nobody felt comfortable around me that would be good too...:o_O:

It just doesn't usually go down that way. Satanists have a much greater tendency to acknowledge something that has been there all along than they go looking for this shit idealistically or whatever...

So the question I have been trying to figure out is...what the hell is it?

I have this gnawing suspicion that Satanism corresponds to a certain class of Autism that tends to put "born satanists" at variance to nearly any kind of "groups" on a neurological level, coming in. Autism is not a life-threatening sort of package in most cases (and there's a huge range of manifestation) but it can markedly impact your whole slant on things like "culture" and tends to force you to stand alone against the herd... Autistic people tend to live "inside their heads", which, contrary to conventional stereotypes, does not mean they cannot negotiate the external universe successfully. Albert Einstein was an autistic person for instance...many geniuses have been...

So this is just a bizarre concept knocking around in the back of my brain but I tend to have pretty good instincts about this kind of stuff...It shouldn't actually demean Satanic Philosophy in any way if this just so happens to be true, but it might be a useful thing to be aware of as a matter of sorting out how best to deal with it.

m1thr0s

[feranaja]

What struck a nerve here for me was the possibility that the mystically inclined individual also has some form of autism - I've lived in my head since birth and cannot deal with many of the stresses other people hardly notice - I started having what I now understand as mystical experiences at about age 7, went through all the usual childhood battery of tests, including one jerk who was positive I have temporal lobe epilepsy (I don't)... Although not inclined to Satanism but rather a sort of opposite view, there may be some neurological similarities here.

And nobody decides they want to have sudden attacks of personal dissolution and start wholly identifying with the suffering of the universe either, lol. "I know! I'll become so horrendously sensitive toward other beings I wont be able to stand my own anymore!"

Well, at least I've parlayed that particular demon into a way of supporting myself that doesn't compromise my values...:)

I can't comment on Satanism because I neither understand it well enough, nor does it have a pull for me personally...but, I've dealt with these episodes - "fugue states" - most of my life and now understand them as mystical experiences, which has given me a sense of being not crazy, but strangely blessed.

The concern of course is that once you begin relating a philosophy or psiritual outlook to brian chemistry, you've reduced it somehow to an illness, at least in the eyes of the world at large if not in our own.

Not to sidetrack the topic here, perhaps we need another on mysticism and brain chemistry, but I was struck by how familar your commentary felt. And I hd not known Einstein was autistic - is this ASperger's or is there really a significant difference in the two diagnoses?


fera

[Okazaki Castle]

Alright, look, cool idea, but autistics dude? It makes us sound like spastics. And yes, I know, very true, compassion and all that, they can't help being that way, medical science owes them, w/e, but they're just unstylish. Doesn't look good. Why not say the same-ish thing in a different way, for example they are focused, into attention-to-detail and meditatively aware of the higher powers, such as what is sometimes called Third Eye or Sixth Sense? And are close to the Warrior path talked of in Shamanism, or the Kingly Path.

Definitely I think we should avoid associating Satanism with any sort of disease or disorder... or with anything which is perceived or defined as such by the mainstream / public.

Coolest way I know to go there is calling the 'Living in the Head' and 'paying attention to detail' things the Ninja discipline of 'Mind and Eyes of God' talked of by Takamatsu: the humans always respect those who are biologically their elders, because they are built that way, and the group karma / influences there are covered by the fact that, within the groups of his day, Takamatsu was highly esteemed. Then we've also got the public on a Paradox Lock because it is 'Mind and Eyes of God' and Satanism. When they're locked like that they never know what to do and don't hassle or interfere. Also, they will suspect we are superior to them, which is always good practice where opponents are concerned. Contrarily, if they aligned Satanism with Autism or something they could or do view as a weakness then they could view themselves as superior to us, something which I do not think is wise really when not in a very externally dominant position. And even then, the inferior, they should know their place. I am elitist in that way...

Can package it in other ways of course. Basic tenets are there, how do we present them, this is significant also I think, eg to life circumstances and how people treat us.

all the best,
Oazaki.

[m1thr0s]

That's what you get for living in stereotypes Oazaki...the cognizance of a TV Set...

Supergenius itself represents about 1% of 1% of the general gene pool of humankind. We really have no way to validate autism as an "affliction" save only in relation to the culture it labors under. In some cultures it might be recognized as a more specialized kind of "leadership" intelligence and immediately assigned a special niche accordingly. In todays sordid money-grubbing meat-market world it would tend to have to fend for itself against the odds. This is actually more of a cultural "affliction" more than it is a personal one.

As for how things might be received by dullards, since when was this ever a concern of Satanists? I really wish you could see past your damn nose every now and then Oazaki. There's just no point in discussing this if that's as far as you can run with it... Only the very severest forms of autism would be rightly considered an "affliction", and these are almost always compounded by other factors such as mental retardation etc. Autism itself comes in all shapes and sizes...

I like being autistic...it's my edge and it has served me very well. So I do not recognize autism as an "illness" in all cases. Because I live in a time when the value of toaster ovens is better understood than the value of people, it has been a problem but I would much rather trade the world than the condition...and who knows...the chance may come yet.

And I hd not known Einstein was autistic - is this ASperger's or is there really a significant difference in the two diagnoses?I haven't made that much of a study of his condition to know for sure fera...he didn't speak a word until he was 8 years old and was always extremely withdrawn and socially awkward in school. It has been reported that he would get completely lost if he strayed more than a block from his house etc... these are all classical autism signatures...

Keep in mind here that I am not trying to place a neurological stamp on all of Satanism...I am only addressing the notion of "born satanists", since this implies some kind of neurological distinction...the question I am posing is...might this not be actually be a form of autism...something akin to AS at least, that does not hinder intelligence but may cause a person to be neurologically positioned on the "outside looking in"...

m1thr0s

[Radiant Star]

I was thinking about Satanism and Asperger’s Syndrome and the likelihood of a connection a few days ago.

People on the autism spectrum are often very logical, they mostly see things as they really are in my view and often have penetrating insights into human behaviours and since Satanism is so straighforward and realistic about the human tendency to self interest and preservation, then it wouldn’t surprize me if people with autism tended towards Satanism at all.

Autistic people may appear to live in fantasy worlds, but this is representative of their involvement with specific topics and interests. They often go very deeply into subjects and that is why you have outstanding contributors to the human race. Scroll down to the famous people on this list to see examples of this: http://www.geocities.com/richardg_uk/famousac.html (http://www.geocities.com/richardg_uk/famousac.html)

Not sure how many on that list would turn out to be real, live acknowledged Satanists, but they would certainly have/be following their own deeply held convictions and being true to what they held important without too much regard for the general ways of the world. I would regard that as following ones own True Will which seems to me to be at the heart of Satanism to my way of thinking.

[m1thr0s]

that's quite the list Ricci...very interesting...Nikola Tesla is no great surprize but Mark Twain came as a bit unexpected. I knew Twain was severely manic-depressive though. Humorists often are...strangely enough, probably why they turn to humor to begin with.

People on the autism spectrum are often very logical, they mostly see things as they really are in my view and often have penetrating insights into human behaviours and since Satanism is so straighforward and realistic about the human tendency to self interest and preservation, then it wouldn’t surprize me if people with autism tended towards Satanism at all.that's pretty much my thinking exactly Ricci...because I think philosophies emerge from how people actually experience reality...more than, say, scientific advances, which may tend to build upon themselves in many cases... So if you are already predisposed to view the world a certain way, it just makes sense that this might also find expression as a formalized philosophy...

Most religion is not very "logical"...it's all a crock of hype really and people very often don't even believe the kinds of crap they go along with to appease their family and friends etc. Autistic people need things to be logical on a level many others can simply overlook. Satanism is actually a very pragmatic philosophy (aside from Hollywood Satanism) that focuses on human potential itself and generally rejects the notion that "god" has much of anything to do with much of anything...

Getting past the whole stigma of the word "illness" is important here. And this whole discussion is not limited even to Autism alone. There has also been shown to be an interesting connection between numerous world leaders and temperal lobe epilepsy for instance...Alexander the Great had this...Julius Ceasar...

here's a short list: famous people with epilepsy (http://www.epilepsytoronto.org/famous.html)

m1thr0s

[Radiant Star]

Getting past the whole stigma of the word "illness" is important here.

Autism is not an illness though most people see it either as an illness or a disability. It is believed that the neural pathways are different in an autistic person so the comparison is between non-autistic: "neuro-typical" as they are referred to and autistic spectrum are often called "differently-abled" but certainly not ill.

It is clear to see that autistic people are more able in certain areas, so its only a question of difference and nothing else.

[frater luciferi]

i am not sure if autistism is in a sense a given "flag" of superiority, but i have found that those(like myself) who "suffer" the condition of aspergers syndrome find a comfort in the uncomplicated logic of esoterica. In my own mind i merely adopted zen as a physcology to compensate for my disconnection to the material "illusion" that has so aptly failed to convice me of its reality- i have no other words to explain the experience of autism. abeit the condition is merely a triviality when one truly comprehends how it is merely a manifest of the power of the mind. one is either weighted down by the incomprehension, or one rejects it. perhaps we austistics are truely hardwired to percieve the dao in its pure essence? the irony of so many of us whom have taken on the dutys of reshaping its interpritation- i have no doubt that there are a substantial amount of individuals whom are involved in the sciences whom have aspergers or austistic tendencies.

In a guided ritual i came to a text that described lucifer shadowed by a archetypal shell of hermes- that could come close to describing him as suffering from "austism". I asked my father about this, and he - a ex mason, merely related it to the "old ones". i am not making this up. whatever egoism is birthed from this, might further a complexion if seeking AUS symptoms within the labrynth of esoterica? "blind" eyes projecting the prism of perspective upon the comprehension of gnosis? where then does the inner mind not create the outter realm? that in itself is a solid enough function for anyone to at least ponder for a few moments.

i find my peace in zen. i am no longer crippled by my comprehension of the inability of allowing the world to form a solid "truth" when i have no real need.
all is void, and from the swells of the inner mind is birthed the vision to lay lines apon the chaos before the mage.

[Sibylle]

I haven't researched autism, but am a big believer that nature is far stronger than nurture, and the tendency to be at variance with groups or societal norms is inborn. It relates to my belief that genes are spiritual, an idea that is explored in DNA and the I Ching - I still have not read that book. I think the majority of people find it hard to stand alone against the masses, as it requires the hard work of thinking and the scary thought of being singled out as an outcast, but you are not talking about the majority. For the minority to which I assume you refer, it is more difficult to go along to get along. It's in fact an act against one's own soul.

To go along with this inborn nature is the easier path, in my opinion. The best we can be is what we actually are at the core, and to make the most of it is the loftiest goal.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Intersting. I was looking into something similar in 2004, well basically the same thing but without the "Satanist" factor, and I convinced myself that I had asperger's syndrome, due in part to the brain function ascribed to autism, but also because I was smoking copious amounts of marijuana. All the different brain hemisphere dominence thing and behavioural traits, IQ, individuality/isolation factors and whatnot (I can't remember the details) ascribed to asperger are valid as regards myself, but I couldn't be described or classed as being autistic or having asperger syndrome, because I can be as socially extrovert as I am introvert.

It's also a difficult subject to approach generally, because you can't start talking about being in any way "special" in a genetic or biological sense without being labelled as a wanker. But the similarity with autism does suggest a genetic factor. My favourite theory was The Neanderthal Theory of autism, asperger and ADHD (http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm), but not being a geneticist with unlimited resources there's just no way to validate the theory, and even the scientists themselves are still at loggerheads regarding possible crossbreeding between Homo Sapiens and Homo Neanderthalensis.

[m1thr0s]

whether or not AS is the right example is sort of up for grabs I think, although it has to be said that the science handle on AS is just now beginning to come in...it's not as cut-and-dried as they thought back in the day when it was first being observed. There's a lot of layers and a lot of variations etc... It isn't true that AS people cannot be involved in relationships for instance, but these relationships tend to be a little socially estranged...are usually very difficult...and almost never last very long.

But in general it's not a great stretch to assert that many people drawn to the occult also seem to be wired differently (somehow, in some uncertain way) from the so-called *norm*. I am closer to AS since I have dealt with that for years so I understand it better. In reality, the whole idea of some kind of neurological distinction going on with many occult-inclined people is probably a little more broad-based than AS alone...

m1thr0s

[Talkingfox]

But in general it's not a great stretch to assert that many people drawn to the occult also seem to be wired differently (somehow, in some uncertain way) from the so-called *norm*. I am closer to AS since I have dealt with that for years so I understand it better. In reality, the whole idea of some kind of neurological distinction going on with many occult-inclined people is probably a little more broad-based than AS alone...

m1thr0s

With you m1. I've been giving this some serious thought since you first posted, being as I'm one of the 'differently wired' set myself. And yes I DO believe there are wiring factors involved in the occult inclined. But I think it's beyond inclination. It seems to me that those actually wired that way are already functioning in a magickal way before exposure to whatever system. It's like that moment of "oh shit ...there's actually a name for it" when the study end of things comes in to play.

Actually I think that *norm* is as rare as the extremes on either side of the 'normalcy' bellcurve.

[m1thr0s]

It seems to me that those actually wired that way are already functioning in a magickal way before exposure to whatever system. It's like that moment of "oh shit ...there's actually a name for it" when the study end of things comes in to play.I can certainly confirm that. I was creating very well defined talismans by the time I was 9 years old, to the best of my memory. Obviously I had no idea what they were...it was just my little personal meditation thingy...logicart or whatever...not until I was in my twenties did I ever encounter a formal magickal talisman which I recognized immediately (and was a little stunned to think people had been doing this sort of thing for centuries)... I certainly never learned anything about this in the public school system!

m1thr0s

[frater luciferi]

whether or not AS is the right example is sort of up for grabs I think, although it has to be said that the science handle on AS is just now beginning to come in...it's not as cut-and-dried as they thought back in the day when it was first being observed. There's a lot of layers and a lot of variations etc... It isn't true that AS people cannot be involved in relationships for instance, but these relationships tend to be a little socially estranged...are usually very difficult...and almost never last very long.

But in general it's not a great stretch to assert that many people drawn to the occult also seem to be wired differently (somehow, in some uncertain way) from the so-called *norm*. I am closer to AS since I have dealt with that for years so I understand it better. In reality, the whole idea of some kind of neurological distinction going on with many occult-inclined people is probably a little more broad-based than AS alone...

m1thr0s

in less pretentious terms mithros, i had always found books to be easier to understand then people. therin i was always in my youth reading books. until i discovered drugs, then i became a bit of a social buttefly. both myself and my wife have aspergers and live a fairly functional eccentric lifestyle. it is definately a matter of "two worlds" colliding. so whatever grandeous "spell
" of words i had made in the last post, as a fervent nihilist i suppose that the more mundane explanation of biological predisposition could add a healthy backdrop. The boring details of neurology are as pointless as they are odvious at times, my father was a pastor/esotericist and had two masters degrees. would that relay to a predisposition as well?

wat ever inner realm that is created. I (yes this is a statement of ego) find that occultism is a healthy way to explore the fabric of human comprehension, if that "reference point" of reality that myth/tenet is parlayed to, and its importance understood- those responsible for its creation might find a better light? egoic reference again my apologies- i am german by blood, have almost traced it back to a druidic strain- last name stam- both german hebrew for tree. these are what i consider to be the root "old ones", the "blind" race.

then again autisim in itself is a box created by the reference point of the meme of science. the same with aspergers? that mirror of gnosis in itself is a sad irony i suppose, that so many are imprisoned by a limitation of "disability". when it is merely a limitation of eccentric nuerology. the wiring is different.

all of which the transcendance of the condition has found myself bound towards the left hand path in the alleviation of my plight- as a ODD creature in a sea of sheep. wat labels are made? it is a constant struggle.

[m1thr0s]

thank you for your insights frater luciferi...you mirror many of my own thoughts perfectly...

m1thr0s

[Okazaki Castle]

That's what you get for living in stereotypes Oazaki...the cognizance of a TV Set...


Fair enough, we can't all be perfect in every area all the time, and that is the space I'm sort of mainly holding at the moment: airhead / less intelligent / less researched overall.


Supergenius itself represents about 1% of 1% of the general gene pool of humankind. We really have no way to validate autism as an "affliction" save only in relation to the culture it labors under. In some cultures it might be recognized as a more specialized kind of "leadership" intelligence and immediately assigned a special niche accordingly. In todays sordid money-grubbing meat-market world it would tend to have to fend for itself against the odds. This is actually more of a cultural "affliction" more than it is a personal one.
Agreed, it is a lables thing. That was sort of my point really. Like Frater Luciferi put better:

Then again autisim in itself is a box created by the reference point of the meme of science.... wat labels are made? it is a constant struggle.

In other words, what I was saying, there is a prevalent mass-perception of autism, which is defined by the uneducated masses. They view the 'autistic' in a certain, specific, unflatterring way. Sure, it's inaccurate, and based on very partial knowledge and understanding, but that is what 'autism' means to most people. I simply don't think it's a good idea to take that label and associate it with Satanism.


Keep in mind here that I am not trying to place a neurological stamp on all of Satanism...I am only addressing the notion of "born satanists", since this implies some kind of neurological distinction...the question I am posing is...might this not be actually be a form of autism...something akin to AS at least, that does not hinder intelligence but may cause a person to be neurologically positioned on the "outside looking in"...
That Satanists are somehow 'wired differently' is a point I am very willing to agree with, and do in fact personally think is the case. How they are so wired differently, and what this means is also an area worthy of disussion for me, or research at least. But western medical science, meh, I hold it in very low esteem. Just look at their doctors: they are most often unhealthy, frequently overwieght or myopic, and definitely not significantly healthier than the majority of the population as a special group - unlike the taoist masters of old or even most TCM doctors nowadays who at least look healthier than western medical doctors when you go see them. The ad hominem objection, or proof, if you like. In short, I simply don't think much of western medicine... nor of their labels.

Does it matter what Name we give something then? I do know, but tell me anyway... That was my point.

Is it worth 'reclaiming' autism from its mainstream understanding, ie how it s understood, and applied, in common parlance? Well, 'negro' was used for a long time to describe blacks, and I even saw Bush snr use it in a TV speech as recently as two years ago. Niggah was reclaimed in gangsta rap. But, even after decades of work, what does that word mean, to most people? Depends who's saying or how it's said? Sad? Whatever really, just a comparative example as to the power of labels, language, common understanding vs formal dictionary usage...


I like being autistic...it's my edge and it has served me very well. So I do not recognize autism as an "illness" in all cases. Because I live in a time when the value of toaster ovens is better understood than the value of people, it has been a problem but I would much rather trade the world than the condition...and who knows...the chance may come yet.
Cool, more power to you if it helps on the path... And you're right, I haven't really studied 'autism' - or western medical science (at least, not formally in a college or anything) for that matter.


Keep in mind here that I am not trying to place a neurological stamp on all of Satanism...I am only addressing the notion of "born satanists", since this implies some kind of neurological distinction...the question I am posing is...might this not be actually be a form of autism...something akin to AS at least, that does not hinder intelligence but may cause a person to be neurologically positioned on the "outside looking in"...
Neurological stamp fine, discerning the differences associated with a particular path, all in agreement with that. As for 'Born Satanists', well, the only two I know of who claimed that distinction definitely are you and Nephele. I wonder, does she consider herself autistic? Is she? Are others? I myself don't consider myself a born satanists, I just got into it cuz you, Nephele, Derdekea and Reverend Satan seemed cool and interesting and Drunvalo sort of recommended it. I do consider myself not willing to kneel, to anyone, ever, for anything though. I don't mind a manager in a position provided he don't step on me or piss me off. Do so though, and it is war. Hence why I turned against God. And against the Laws of Creation, etc. Does that make a born satanist, since certainly I had the natural inclinations to it since birth? I don't know, nor do I really feel any need to decide there. And whilst I definitely do think Satanists are somehow 'wired diffferently to mainstream' I do personally reject the association of satanism with the term 'autism'. But hey, if others are happy with that term as a classifying description, I'm cool with that. Do what you like is part of the way is it not (sort of)? I just personally disagree on it myself - though not on the possibility of underlying neurological phenomena. Prove it and back up the position would be my take there...


As for how things might be received by dullards, since when was this ever a concern of Satanists?
Well, people make up their minds as to how they will act on the basis of what they think. I personally wish to control the 'dullards' perceptions, hence I am concerned as to what they think. Because I want to manipulate them to do what I want them to do. Fast. 3-4 months is sort of a target there for me. The slaves, they must serve, and are currently being slow about it. Hence, manipulate their thoughts to get them in position fast. Hence, as thoughts are made up of percpetions, assesments, and things like image, style and attractiveness also, control all such factors, to attain desired result swiftly. Not because I hold them in high esteem or value their opinion or anything...


I really wish you could see past your damn nose every now and then Oazaki. There's just no point in discussing this if that's as far as you can run with it...
Haha, I've felt the same way with you on more than a few occassions. Guess it's part of the fun, and we do both try, I think. Did I do better this time, or am I still being obtuse on this point?

all the best,
Oazaki.

[m1thr0s]

It baffles me how someone who is constantly admitting to have never really studied much of anything nevertheless has so damn much to say about everything and everybody! Opinions, in themselves, really are about like assholes Oazaki. As it happens, the whole idea of "born satanists" was introduced by Anton LaVey himself and was in fact one of the prevaling themes of his whole philosophy! He always asserted that "real satanists" were "born satanists".

So you don't know anything about Satanism (and you admit it) and you don't know anything about Autism (and you admit it) but you somehow expect your opinion to be worth something to me???

Is that because you happen to have an opinion or because you can't find anywhere else to unload it?

In any case...it's clear you don't really have a clue what I am talking about here or why. Since nothing is being asserted as a fact in this instance, there really is nothing to be proved in this particular discussion. Some will relate to the notion and others won't. You have already indicated you don't agree with this idea and I acknowledge that...for what it's worth.

m1thr0s

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I can certainly confirm that. I was creating very well defined talismans by the time I was 9 years old, to the best of my memory. Obviously I had no idea what they were...it was just my little personal meditation thingy...logicart or whatever

Same here

[triangleofart]

I am convinced of the notion that certain people really are "born satanists", as Anton LaVey used to assert.

I'm not sure how much of this is at a biological level, but I definitely feel like many of us are born to be magicians. I remember being ten or eleven years old and being obsessed with browsing through the metaphysical and religion sections of the local Borders bookstore. I took martial arts as a kid but didn't really care about the physical aspects. I remember being fascinated by a particular palindrome when we talked about palindromes in grade school even though I didn't know what it meant or where it was from:

SATOR
AREPO
TENET
OPERA
ROTAS

I only recently discovered it's in the Key of Solomon.

But I was inspired to post in this thread when I read this in the Arbatel (5th precept, at the end of aphorism 17):

"A man that is a true Magician, is brought forth a Magician from his mothers womb: others, who do give themselves to this office, are unhappie."

It goes on to claim that being a magician is decreed by God, which I'm not down with, but the point is similar. I feel that often from an early age many magicians tend to want to spend significant amounts of time alone, get caught up in their imaginations, and are fascinated by mystery and darkness and power.

[m1thr0s]

"A man that is a true Magician, is brought forth a Magician from his mothers womb: others, who do give themselves to this office, are unhappie."great quote triangleofart, since it also addresses the idea of a consequence to those who go looking for something outside their actual natures...pretend all you like...if it ain't happenin...it just ain't happenin...

but if it is happenin already...you're gonna be real damn unlikely to be able to settle for anything less...

pretty much the way it seems to work in a whole lot of cases...

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

Well, in a way I actually tend to agree with Oazaki here, and I found his post insightful... I don't have a problem associating Satanism with Autism, but I do tend to view both these things as largely semiotic realities... They're catch terms covering phenomena which differ so vastly in their particularities that I kindof feel no need to use them. I know, it's all po-mo and stuff to eschew labels, but I don't do it for that reason... I just think it CAN tie you up in unneccesary mind games. As for wired... all I know is that I certainly have proclivities, and magick comes quite naturally to me, so I suppose that could be some sort of 'autism' or ADD or whatever. I choose no label for it. Honestly. The only use I've ever had for such medical terms was to get doctor's notes (and the only use I've had for Religious labels is to stop tedious questions at the gates)... But... different fireing-patterns lending themselves to different ways of being... Of course... Just not sure about how legit Western medicine is either...
-Anibis

[m1thr0s]

it might seem like a load of psycho-babble until you've actually struggled with these issues. Autism, despite its complexity, is still a very real sort of problem. We are talking about persistent blockages here much more powerful than the norm and in most cases these especially impact relationships of all kinds, hence the "living inside your head" stigma...

The reason for calling a thing what it is, is simply that there is no good reason not to. Simply arguing that it "makes us look bad" is a pathetic load of tripe. Makes who look bad? Those of us who want to be called "Satanists" but don't want people to think we might actually have any real problems? Magickal people turn liabilities into advantages all the time. It's part and parcel to who they are and what they do. In that case, why concern ourselves with sordid stereotypes?

So I return...since when did Satanism give a shit about what people might think? Autism is only an "affliction" if you say it is but it is nevertheless a very real obstacle. Many of the telltale signatures of autism also serve to position people so as to be very hard to "convert" them to anything at all and this is the aspect that especially interests me. A great deal of Satanic principle is aimed at the idea of a "third option" existing between any two opposing ideas. People positioned a little on the outside already have a much easier time intuiting that "third option" I think.

It may not be the only possible explanation though. I'm certainly open to that. A number of these issues may simply be a matter of intelligence itself, for instance.

m1thr0s

[Radiant Star]

I think once people find who and what they truly are, whether that is a Satanist or being on the autistic spectrum, if it is truly what they are made of, then they couldn't care less about labels or looking bad. There is nothing so liberating as being in touch with your own true nature.

Labels are useful to bring bunches of concepts together for discussion and I think there are benefits to being able to contrast and compare them even if they provoke uncomfortable feelings at times.

[Kain]

So I return...since when did Satanism give a shit about what people might think? Autism is only an "affliction" if you say it is but it is nevertheless a very real obstacle. Many of the telltale signatures of autism also serve to position people so as to be very hard to "convert" them to anything at all and this is the aspect that especially interests me. A great deal of Satanic principle is aimed at the idea of a "third option" existing between any two opposing ideas. People positioned a little on the outside already have a much easier time intuiting that "third option" I think. I did a bit of research on autism and AS...that's a quite interesting opinion m1thr0s, I see how one could link the two. I have my own fare share of Satanic leanings as you know and I was actually surprised to find so many of the symptoms of autistic behavior were part of my own behavior as well. Also, from what I gather, autism just positions you in a *different* basis rather than a flawed basis and this is a very interesting outset to approach the whole relation of the two from, as perhaps one of the only things Satanists of different approaches and trends etc may agree upon is their *difference of basis*, very close to what you also refer to as the "third option".

Kain

[m1thr0s]

extreme autism is of course completely disabling, as is extreme anything (just about)...a touch of autism is actually kind of smart in a world already busting its balls to invade your personal space with pointless bullshit... I see people destroyed by this crap every day...people worried sick about how they look or what others will think or if they're gonna score or not score or be valued or not valued and on and on and on...

I swear to heaven this shit never enters my mind...if the cute girl over there likes me (I assume she's cute since everybody seems to think so)...if she thinks I look stupid...whatever...I really and truly flat couldn't give a shit if I tried... It's sort of like having storm windows on your house or something...extra insulation or what have you... It has its downsides I suppose but everything in life does so what does that even matter? I repell people that get in too close and it doesn't take much...it's not intentional...it's neurological and I have very little control over it actually... I am sure that has done me damage in all kinds of little ways but life goes on and my part in this world is cast from an other-worldly sort of place. think about it...what the fuck is 70 or 80 years in the life of the universe? And if people are actually literal universes-in-training...well...it's probably a good thing that a few of us are wired to think more about that than about getting our pee-pees wet as they say...

I think there's a basis to this so far...of some kind anyway. There is a correlation at least which doesn't necessarily point to causation...but then again it might...

m1thr0s

[Kain]

I swear to heaven this shit never enters my mind...if the cute girl over there likes me (I assume she's cute since everybody seems to think so)...if she thinks I look stupid...whatever...I really and truly flat couldn't give a shit if I tried... It's sort of like having storm windows on your house or something...extra insulation or what have you... It has its downsides I suppose but everything in life does so what does that even matter? I repell people that get in too close and it doesn't take much...it's not intentional...it's neurological and I have very little control over it actually... I am sure that has done me damage in all kinds of little ways but life goes on and my part in this world is cast from an other-worldly sort of place. think about it...what the fuck is 70 or 80 years in the life of the universe? And if people are actually literal universes-in-training...well...it's probably a good thing that a few of us are wired to think more about that than about getting our pee-pees wet as they say...

I think there's a basis to this so far...of some kind anyway. There is a correlation at least which doesn't necessarily point to causation...but then again it might...Very well said and I absolutely agree. In that light, it is a good thing, and a whole lot mature to begin with...

Kain

[Radiant Star]

I don't have a problem associating Satanism with Autism, but I do tend to view both these things as largely semiotic realities... They're catch terms covering phenomena which differ so vastly in their particularities that I kindof feel no need to use them. I know, it's all po-mo and stuff to eschew labels, but I don't do it for that reason... I just think it CAN tie you up in unneccesary mind games.
They could indeed be mind games but when someone within the autism spectrum is making involuntary movements, its kind of hard to put it down to a some kind of mental choice or even trickery; or when their ability to be fully employable is compromised because of the social nuances they don't pick up on and act upon to make the whole thing work, then no, not mind games at all.

I can see that some people might act out being Satanists for a while because others are into it and they don't want to feel left out though, that seems perfectly feasible.

[Kain]

Good point Ricci...still, I think Anibis is right that under certain circumstances, the use of any of these terms can indeed put oneself in unnecessary mind games. Not including cases like the ones you used as examples of course, where the case is hardly anything like that...

This is an interesting thread,

Kain

[Naomi]

Oh I've known a vast range of "autistic" people. I used to have a friend through highschool and into young adulthood who was just the most perfectly awesome guy, very quiet and just laid back, didn't freak out about anything. Personally I'm with the Scientologists on this one...Autism is a big fake label for many different things we don't understand. In fact I absolutely agree witht he Scientologist view on psychology as a whole, that it is in fact an oppressive and primitive pseudo science.

I see absolutely no reason to label Satanists as autistic, nor do I agree with Lavey absolutely about bloodlines. His grandson looks like he knows how to party but he's hardly a super genius in occult matters, as other high profile Satanists have observed already.

I believe one emerges as they are due to a number of factors that cannot be measured by science currently.

Most importantly, Satanists don't need labels, especiall not ones dished out by psychologists....havn't we heard enough about how Satanists are all psychotic crazy baby killers to know how the populace wants to label us so quickly and wrongfully?

I would quickly discard any of these labels.

[m1thr0s]

I would quickly discard any of these labels.sure...if the shoe doesn't seem to fit, don't wear it...but what the scientologists have to say about much of anything doesn't impress me at all. They're all a bunch of money-grubbing twits from anything I have ever seen...and I've known quite a few of them on a personal basis...studied *diaretics* and the whole nine yards...

Autism isn't just some clever quasi-science catch-all term etc... I'm sorry, but that's just a load of make-believe nonsense. The problem is that autism manifests in a wide variety of ways so it doesn't conform to most of the rules we typically employ to definitions themselves. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist...that's like trying to say that migraines are "all in your head". Obviously that is where most of them manifest...it doesn't tell us what they actually are.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Well they're annoying, but then, most people are. But they're right about psychology.

I don't think it's about labels fitting, it's about just being wrong. I don't think there's very much valuable meaning in psychological labels....at all....at least to magicians....

[m1thr0s]

I don't think it's about labels fitting, it's about just being wrong.If you are going to assert something as universally "wrong" you have an obligation to define why that is or expect the rest of the universe to disregard your assertions. You haven't done this and I very much doubt that you can...

"wrong" for you perhaps...which is fine...

Crowley suffered all his life with asthma, which used to be regarded as a psychological condition! Should we say that he was not a real magickian because he had this problem? Are we also unaware that we was about as crazy as a loon in general? Psychological "problems" do not define magicians nor produce them, any more than with Satanists. But certain correlations do exist nevertheless in certain cases and that's all I am really looking at here.

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

If you use a label to designate a 'region of density' of certain traits, then I believe it works, provided you recognize that the label 'hovers' over the traits themselves, and could just as easily be something else (some other label). The trouble comes in when a given label accrues other, politicized meanings... It forcibly networks the phenomena in ways that are arbitrary and political. Even 'satanism' itself as a label forces you to be positioned artificially in the overal social context. Much better, IMO, to preserve the actual phenomena by sidestepping the traps which are often part and parcel with the labels (Which is NOT to say that one shouldn't adopt an appropriate label at a given time, but that one should know what one is getting into). Since the 'regions of density' are actually boiling, shifting, morphing and changing collections of phenomena, it becomes likely that a trait or tendency, labeled one thing is quite likely actually evolve out of the state which earned it the name in the first place and become *something else) but that the label will stick, and force the phenomena to contend with ignorances which are otherwise avoidable... this is how I see it... that which we term 'Tao' when actually comprehended is not the words applied to it... NOR for that matter is it 'not not the those words'.

As the Discordians say: 'True in one sense, False in one sense, Meaningless in another sense, and True, False, and Meaningless in a yet another sense.'

Anyone know the Sanscrit for that?

-Anibis

[Naomi]

I don't need to concern myself about the rest of the universe, just the human part. Because it is a human made system. They don't seem to really give a good explanation for how the mind works. Their psychological treatments are bs and have been for some time. Poisonous drugs, unscientific and dangerous experiments and confusion are prevalent amongst the medical community and seemingly worst in the psychiatric and psychological areas of study. So if they can't treat something that means they don't understand it, and it would seem that the rest of the universe is disagreeing with the human's lack of understanding. I believe the entire system needs to be discarded and written over with something else.

[m1thr0s]

The trouble comes in when a given label accrues other, politicized meanings... It forcible networks the phenomena in ways that are arbitrary and political.I agree that this problem exists but I don't agree we should set our course by it is all...people are going to say weird shit about satanism & satanists in any case...it's sort of an international passtime, ditzing satanism...

I like your bubbling cauldron of metaphors though! That was pretty cool...:cool:

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Magickians can overcome anything and are not constrained by stupid human labels. I think you're being defensive. I don't know why. Did it ever cross your mind that this may have been a necessity for you in this life?

I will crush all labels. >:O

[m1thr0s]

Did it ever cross your mind that this may have been a necessity for you in this life?You're not addressing an idiot Naomi...of course I have regarded it as necessary...as well as beneficial...I'm not *whining* about this...why are you?

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

lol :D :D :D

[m1thr0s]

check this out...I have spent a certain amount of time trying to calculate what it might take to produce a conditions that might yield for the best possible chance of someone being able to comprehend and advance one of the most nebulous and mysterious magickal formulas on earth...ok? This takes awhile to lay it all out cuz it gets really hairy...probabilities and shit...complicated math...but the basic idea is that I came up with the notion that I would need to position a very intelligent person with a reasonably good education in a very weird circumstances with the greatest possible access to global information with the least possible ties to family, friends, organizations etc...in a nutshell...I would need to create a virtually identical conditions to the life I have lived...

aside from the lack of fucking money...what's to complain? I'm right on fucking schedule! :cool:

and even the money crap can still be dealt with...all great artists have had this problem...well...most of them anyway...;)

m1thr0s

[Kain]

As the Discordians say: 'True in one sense, False in one sense, Meaningless in another sense, and True, False, and Meaningless in a yet another sense.'

Anyone know the Sanscrit for that?Too early for me to even try translating this one I think...tempting phrase though ;) :laugh:

Kain

[Anibis]

From the Pricipia Discordia:

SRI SYADASTI SYADAVAKTAVYA SYADASTI SYANNASTI SYADASTI CAVAKTAVYASCA SYADASTI SYANNASTI SYADAVATAVYASCA SYADASTI SYANNASTI SYADAVAKTAVYASCA

Which means:

All statements are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense.

Even better than I thought... Fully permutative....
-Anibis

[Kain]

Ah, thanks Anibis, much appreciated...

Kain

[MythMath]

Man, that mantra's just begging to be set to a grimy hiphop beat...

Allwearesaying is give piece a chant... :p
________________

Also, this one goes out to the millions of mind guerrillas:

Pushing the barriers, planting seeds
Chanting the Mantra peace on earth
Some kinda druid dudes lifting the veil
Some call it magic, the search for the grail

Love is the answer, and you know that for sure
Love is a flower, you got to let it grow

Faith in the future, out of the now
Absolute elsewhere in the stones of your mind
Projecting our images in space and in time

Yes is the answer, and you know that for sure
Yes is surrender, you got to let it go

Doing the ritual, dance in the sun
Putting their soul power to the karmic wheel
Raising the spirit of peace and love

(I want you to make love, not war
I know you've heard it before)


{alternate lines from 1973's mind games}


http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00006L3S3.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[Ratatosk]

I find it telling that in our modern "civilized" world, anyone who perceives things in a manner different from that of the majority is given a label and declared "sick" or "disabled." (Unless one uses what is, in this case, ironically, the correct PC term of "differently-abled.") If one looks at less "civilized" parts of the world, those who perceive differently are often valued for that different perception. Whether as a shaman, seer, seidhr, wise man or woman, or whatever, that ability to see beyond normal perceptions has value.

meh :-/

[Kuroyagi]

Yes, I see what you mean m1thr0s.

There's this saying that: "every god has his own (ideosyncratic) madness", and this could be what some satanists are also on about.

To have ones own madness simply means that (the god) is incomprehensible to mere humans because He/she/it is too extreme and thereby will be not understood by them, or be beyond their normal focus. So maybe it is about extreme autonomy and individuality, and autism (I think noone here is acutally autistic in a pathological sense, anyway) has only some traits in common with a certain form of this extreme trans-human perspective.

Maybe there are many: we should look at other mental illnesses, maybe autism is the one that fits one person; and other persons who also "do in extremes" will discover some commonalities with other "mental illnesses", yet this doesnt mean that they are mentally ill, its maybe just like me comparing some occultists with x-men: I dont really mean that we grow fur or fangs or whatever, but its the allegory the idea that has some value to it, in my view, and this one has...

[m1thr0s]

There's this saying that: "every god has his own (ideosyncratic) madness", and this could be what some satanists are also on about.That's probably a much better way to put it...wouldn't be the first time one of my ideas hit the dirt...lol...

it would seem there is no getting people to break the habit of thinking of this in terms of "mental illness". Save only in the more extreme cases, I usually think of the more functional forms of autism as a kind of magnification "edge" or "lens"...

not without a certain cost perhaps, but oh well...

m1thr0s

[Kain]

Save only in the more extreme cases, I usually think of the more functional forms of autism as a kind of magnification "edge" or "lens"...

not without a certain cost perhaps, but oh well...That's kind of how I always viewed it myself, a good way to phrase it I think...

Kain

[m1thr0s]

great post VenusSatanas! thanks for talking about this. Physical factors are of special interest to LHP people in general I think. It just seems to me that the Left Hand Path embraces these things in a way that should make it no problem to discuss them really. If I don't give a shit that my so-called "illness" might limit me in some ways because I know how much it frees me up in others, then why should I give a shit if others are stuck in a bs-loop about it?

I think it's especially interesting that your seizures appear to have pretty much disappeared...that's just so damn interesting. Mission accomplished so to speak. The funny thing about that is that, in my own case, I very much doubt I would be classed as having AS anymore if I were tested today. I engage pretty well with people all the time...I am as aware of emotional factors as anybody I know...I can make friends and keep them. I'm not in a relationship right now but I feel confident that I could be if something came up that I really wanted or needed to pursue. All the stuff that would have classed me as having AS 10 or 15 years ago is gone! And I can't help thinking it's all because I just picked up the damn ball and ran like hell with it...got kind of lucky maybe and found my niche and things have just consistently come together all around me over time. There's something to be said for doing your will come hell or high water I think. Many times these so-called limitations are just props that hyphenate a persons inherent specialities.

I was just gonna let this one sink cuz it seemed like mostly people just weren't getting it. so thanks for sharing your views on this very curious subject!

m1thr0s

[Nuhad418]

Crowley suffered all his life with asthma, which used to be regarded as a psychological condition! Should we say that he was not a real magickian because he had this problem? Are we also unaware that we was about as crazy as a loon in general? Psychological "problems" do not define magicians nor produce them, any more than with Satanists. But certain correlations do exist nevertheless in certain cases and that's all I am really looking at here.

m1thr0s

First I want to say this is a great thread m1...thanks for setting it in motion.

Second, and I realise this is supposed to be about Santanism but I will make a claim to apply to occultism in gneral. It occurs to me that conditions (the term being used in a neutral way) such as being discussed here make one more likely to be a highly successful occultist. Most of the people I know or know of who have made a major impact on the occult scene have had some form of "disorder". Talkingfox has discussed related issues in relation to shamanic practices (if not in the forums then in PM or perhaps it was in my head!?). As far as I know I have no overt or intrusive biochemical or psychological issues. I struggle like mad with occult topics that come in an instant to people who are wired differently. What does this mean? Well likely that I should just give up :eek: However, it just means I need to work harder on some aspects of occult work than others do. Which leads me to:

Third, while I do agree that some conditions make one more apt to succeed as a Satanist or general occultist depending on thier perspectives (despite a veneer of simplicity, satanists are a complicated and diverse bunch!) I also believe, contrary to your statement above, that psychological "problems" do indeed define magicians. Inflation, power complexes, histrionics, narcissism, hell even experience numinousity to one ill prepared for it will have a profound impact on the individual. There are few occultists in my experience who have not been shaped, in one way or another, by psychological "problems". In fact, I would say that all occult traditions work to amplify and explode these issues (generally non-biochemical issues) for the very purpose of working with them...or rather the potential to work with them. Your example of asthma is a good example. It can still, to this day, have a psychological root. I think its no small coincidence that occultists are said to have pulmoary issues. It may be due less to the clouds of sulphur and more to metaphorical meanings of dis-ease of breath.

[Anibis]

Well I have struggled myself... never really able to fit in, or hold a joe-job... they 'diagnosed me' with ADD, and god knows what else, so I am sure that there's something on the go with this idea, I just have no real sense of what a medical diagnosis actually means. Hell, tell me what I got is x, y, or z... it doesn't seem to make a difference. In the abscence of a community of healers who will do anything more than prescribe dangerous and poorly tested 'trend drugs' which will shut down my capacity to adapt, I'd much rather practice magick and find some sense of a workable life there... What the hell is 'normal' anyhow... don't believe in it...
-Anibis
I have a pretty innate aptitude for magick, to the point where I have found it almost difficult to believe in when it is portrayed as 'extraordinary'... While wildly paranormal stuff is not in my repetoire, synchronicity is so utterly pervasive in my life that I can pretty much depend on it %100 of the time provided I don't take it for granted and fail to meet it half way... Things that are utterly basic for most people seem to be exceptionally difficult for myself and other magick incline folk I know, whilst we seem to have an uncanny ability to walk calmly into a total vortex of crazy shit, and calmly stroll out the other side because just as we were about to sauter off of the cliff, a ladder 'happened' to fall across it... (I still watch my steps though)... Try to get us to fold our laundry on a regular basis, and woah... there's challenge...

[m1thr0s]

I'm not really sure how things are in the rest of the world (always thought I should leave the US personally) but the US is an archetypal example of a merry-go-round gone berzerk. People get tossed off the damn thing all the time and in many cases cannot get back on. usually people would give anything to stay on the thing or else climb back on as quickly as possible if they happen to get thrown off, but I think that the reality is that a much greater perception of life and everything is obtained from being thrown off and staying off for good...

They make this really hard to do of course...there's big money to be made in psychotic amusement park equipment so it's a major struggle sorting out how to do things in your own way. "Conditions" of the sort we are describing very often force the issue with little or no room for negotiation, which can actually save a lot of time in the course of a whole life. The sooner you come to grips with the fact that you aren't going to win the golden ring etc...the sooner you can begin the work of reclaiming your natural fortunes...

I don't know that I am prepared to say its absolutely necessary or anything, but in most cases a little mandatory nudge towards post merry-go-round existence just happens to be a pretty good move if you can swing it...

m1thr0s

[Radiant Star]

I believe that i am an uncommon person, unconventional in my thinking and i prefer to create my own opinion instead of readily agree with others.
That seems to be usual in the case of occultists with neurological differences and mostly it is often accepted as a blessing.

EPilepsy is a misunderstood condition (sound familiar?) which has alot of fears and misonceptions surronding it (agiain, familiar?).
It seems that in the normal world, people want to fit in and be the same as others in all kinds of ways and their social arrangements are very important to them; from what I can tell of people on the autistic spectrum or with other brain diffferences, these social arrangements are very low priority or not even fully understood which must be quite frightening for the normals. I think it leaves us free to go against the tide and take up controversial ideas and belief systems even if some of us try hard to do what is expected of us, as you suggest, once we go with our own true desires, things go a whole lot better - you can’t fight the wiring in the end.

First I want to say this is a great thread m1...thanks for setting it in motion.

Second, and I realise this is supposed to be about Santanism but I will make a claim to apply to occultism in gneral. It occurs to me that conditions (the term being used in a neutral way) such as being discussed here make one more likely to be a highly successful occultist... I struggle like mad with occult topics that come in an instant to people who are wired differently.
I am one of those people for whom some occult topics make sense instantly and very naturally; no effort involved, its as if some of it is sat there waiting for some minor allusion to it and wham, a whole picture of understanding sits right there before my eyes.

What the hell is 'normal' anyhow... don't believe in it...
I think there is only a continuum and in the case of Autism, it can range from a high percent of autistic traits compared to neurotypical ones and interestingly, even supposedly normal people have a few autistic traits here and there, the key factor being the number of them present.

What the hell is 'normal' anyhow... don't believe in it...
I think there is only a continuum and in the case of Autism, it can range from a high percent of autistic traits compared to neurotypical ones and interestingly, even supposedly normal people have a few autistic traits here and there, the key factor being the number of them present it seems.

synchronicity is so utterly pervasive in my life that I can pretty much depend on it %100 of the time provided I don't take it for granted and fail to meet it half way...
Me too right down to postal codes, door numbers and many other things.

[Sibylle]

...you can’t fight the wiring in the end.

I agree with that. To fight it is counterproductive. To go with what you are is to make the most of yourself, in the most productive way.

[Copuldaemon]

This is just way out there stuff but it has the *ring of truth* to it somehow (a friend has got me hooked on that damn term now and I can't seem to shake it)...

In the back of my mind I have been trying to sort out what may actually give rise to Satanism on a biological level because I am convinced of the notion that certain people really are "born satanists", as Anton LaVey used to assert. I have experienced this myself...I never really went looking for Satanism...who the hell would do a stupid thing like that? What do you want to be when you grow up? Oh, I guess I'd like to be a completely culturally disenfranchised sort of person! If I could be poor as shit because nobody felt comfortable around me that would be good too...:o_O:

It just doesn't usually go down that way. Satanists have a much greater tendency to acknowledge something that has been there all along than they go looking for this shit idealistically or whatever...

So the question I have been trying to figure out is...what the hell is it?

I have this gnawing suspicion that Satanism corresponds to a certain class of Autism that tends to put "born satanists" at variance to nearly any kind of "groups" on a neurological level, coming in. Autism is not a life-threatening sort of package in most cases (and there's a huge range of manifestation) but it can markedly impact your whole slant on things like "culture" and tends to force you to stand alone against the herd... Autistic people tend to live "inside their heads", which, contrary to conventional stereotypes, does not mean they cannot negotiate the external universe successfully. Albert Einstein was an autistic person for instance...many geniuses have been...

So this is just a bizarre concept knocking around in the back of my brain but I tend to have pretty good instincts about this kind of stuff...It shouldn't actually demean Satanic Philosophy in any way if this just so happens to be true, but it might be a useful thing to be aware of as a matter of sorting out how best to deal with it.

m1thr0s
Hmmm...well this concept for a convo piece is def. out there. When I was younger, I felt different and seperate from the other kids and I had no intention on playing with them or interacting with them on any level. I wouldn't say that I was superior to them but I always knew I had more sense or was more alert than they were but that's not what I was striving at either.
Well, there were times I would just space out for hours, not because I was ignoring my surroundings but because it was soothing and that's as close as I can come to this discussion but I do agree with ozaki that Satanism, or darkness or any form of LHP being should be associated with a disorder.
Personally, I don't see the relation.

[m1thr0s]

Personally, I don't see the relation.Apparently some never will.

Oazaki's problem is that he can't get past the concept of a "disorder"...this is a cultural branding and nothing more. As has been pointed out already, in many cultures this distinction would not even exist at all, or if it did, might actually be considered a "gift", much as prophecy or magickal abilities of any kind would be. I only refer to a "condition" which, if I default to the word "illness" or "disorder", only do so in quotations to indicate a common misunderstanding.

Your fear, I believe, is that the association to a "disorder" renders a thing weak and ineffectual by default...at least in the public eye. My point is that certain "conditions" actually facilitate higher intelligence and the manifestation of higher intelligence which is hardly anything "weak" or "afflicted" at all. If the herd doesn't get it...what else is new?

I also don't feel like this discussion is limited to Satanism at all. Satanism just happens to be on the extreme outer edge of societal norms but in general my feeling is that certain conditions facilitate "occult" inclinations by their very natures. So I can try to make it clear what should not be so hard to understand, but if you are coming at it from the vantage point of how these things are perceived by a deceived majority, you probably won't get it at all.

Which isn't so important anyway. I am thrilled that the few who do get it, seem to get it loud and clear...

Alexander the Great was a "victim" of temperal lobe epilepsy, simply called the "falling sickness" in those days. He had to be accompanied at all times by an elite personal guard whose job it was to conceal his condition from the eyes of the general public. I find it ironic that a man who conquered 3/4 of the civilized world (in his 20's!) had to hide his "condition" from that very same world...not because it represented any real threat to him personally, but because people's own ignorance was as insurmountable then as it appears to be today.

It is my habit to challenge these kinds of things...these pockets of persistent ignorance wherever I happen to find them. Alexander's "condition" was an integral part of who and what he was...not some insignificant wart or something somehow separate from himself. If it was a "disorder", well, numerically speaking...so is genius!

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

Well byes, whatever it may be, perhaps THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8BWBn26bX0) is the solution ;) !
-Anibis

[Copuldaemon]

Okay M1th. Now I've re-read some more pieces to this thread and now I want say something here.

I personally believe or are starting to believe in many theories that have to do with in the realm of the psyche and that many are pscyhic (mind readers, or emotion manipulators). I mean when I had posted a thread about mental sex on OF two 1/2 years back, I was afraid of being labeled as some sort of shadow perv but I was blown away by the many responses I've gotten on the subject as in many where/are/KNOW what the fvck I was writting and then I was really scared.
In saying that (and believe me I know not the connection of it yet) I know that artistic people are super psychic because they are super sensative. Also artistic people/psychics or psychics alone have many emotional and mental problems. Back close to 30 years ago when I was starting school, I remember just by being different, they were sent to special ed. Now a days, there's more one on one help and many different approaches towards helping a child but it's still one way methods because the material is based on caricullum and not aspects of the human soul.
SO I can tell you that I myself have my fair share of problems that prevent me from functioning well in society but I won't just put my business out there but I will say that intermingling with them was never intended.
My point is out of all of us who're fvcked up, the real problem is there's not many places, people, forums, whatever available to help a person understand their latent powers as it where. Understand right?
So on that note; well...that's it I guess.

[m1thr0s]

My point is out of all of us who're fvcked up, the real problem is there's not many places, people, forums, whatever available to help a person understand their latent powers as it where. Understand right?well it's ok to disagree with me if there is any hint of that in what you are saying...you are certainly just as welcome here either way...but maybe I am hearing something that was not really being intimated...

"fucked up" is so very often a consequence of not having the unique supports you may need for your otherwise natural "condition". If I need water to survive but I live in a society that won't give me any water...that's "fucked up". And indeed, I may act "fucked up" as a result!

People are not all the same damn thing...they have different kinds of needs. Some can do ok with what society is willing to provide while others cannot. The fault does not lie with those individuals...it lies with the societies to which they are a part. And sure, perhaps they are destined to die off sooner than they would as a result of that kind of negligence. That doesn't make them "weak". People so easily forget...everything in this world is dying. Nothing is stronger than death.

m1thr0s

[Copuldaemon]

Yeah what you said was what I was trying to say.

[Elesrea]

I don’t know much about Satanism, but I currently work as a nurse looking after people with various mental conditions and am a mother of a child recently diagnosed with Temporal Lobe Epilepsy – and some of these posts definitely click with me.

I don’t know why there is a connection with some mental conditions and spiritual belief – but I certainly believe there is one. Working on a general ward, you will find maybe 35% of patients that claim to have belief. That figure seems to rise to about 70% amongst the current residents that I care for. And that’s not just ticking a box on a form – they actively practice it.

This might be a little off topic, but I’m currently going on a theory that certain conditions do seem to open your awareness to other things. It’s a bit hard for me at the moment, as I’m trying to interpret what my 12 year old says without just neatly fitting some of his his experiences into my own beliefs, but he does appear to have had his first stir of awakening of other energies that has coincided with the arrival of TLE.
While at the same time being aware that the condition does cause hallucinations to all the senses, can totally screw with your concept of time, and certain Déjà vu type feelings always seem more clear and real to ‘normal’ state.

There even seems to be some similarities in how different seizures manifest and how I would try to describe various practices. This was my boy’s response to the Neuro when asked if could describe where abouts in his head one type of seizure occurred and how it felt.
“It sounds daft, but it’s like my head is being stretched up to the sky, but it doesn’t hurt. The buzzing starts right at the top where my head meets the clouds and then passes down through me.”
I know it’s not the same, and the control isn’t there at all and it’s involuntary, but in my (very new) practices of the QC, that certainly sounds familiar.

And now I find myself in murky water, as I don’t want to dismiss the experiences he’s having just before he falls asleep and automatically label it as E. But neither do I want to put my thoughts in his head. And of course, there’s the counsellor that all kids with E are offered, that naturally feels ‘any new friend’ is down to escapism to help deal with the situation.
I’m rambling now, so I’ll shut up! ;)

[m1thr0s]

Thank you very much for your insights on this Elesrea. It's especially useful to me to have the perspective of someone who is close to this issue both on a personal level as well as professionally. 70%!!! If that estimate is even close to the average, it's an impressive statistic indeed. Plus, we can't even be sure that the remaining 30% might not lean this way at another point in their lives. One typically has to battle through all kinds of crap to arrive at an occult perspective I think...just as VenusSatanas has indicated.

I think your son is very fortunate to have a mother who is open to discovering what hidden strengths may lie behind his condition. These absolutely must be explored and exploited as effectively as possible. AS people, just as an example I am a bit closer to, are extremely good at "single-tasking" types of work but generally very poor at "multi-tasking". Unfortunately the whole damn job market is constantly pushing "multi-tasking" as the only kind of skill that counts for anything. This is actually bullshit and they would know it if they bothered to give it any thought at all. In Canada, this has become recognized about AS people and there are all kinds of supports to help AS people find the kinds of jobs they will easily excel at. America has its heels dug hard into the dirt on this issue and refuses to even acknowledge this condition as a condition at all in adults, treating it as a condition that some children might have at most. Consequently AS people suffer a great deal of unnecessary impositioning in the States, and nobody wins.

Thanks for your "rambling"...it was a very good post...

m1thr0s

[Copuldaemon]

This may be off subject here but I believe that the de ja vu scenario is only because when it happens it means that it actually happened.
I think that the stream of human consciousness is formed like a perfect ring, and there's more than just one. As in the one before us, the one for present and one for yesterday.
Howelse could there be psychic prediction despite the variances that could change it at the instant it being known? It had to be there in the first place to see it actually coming to pass.
So I think that when you experience it, it's like an extra point or bonus round to thoroughly see what is going to happen to either change it from not happening or to monopolize on the situation.

[Kain]

Howelse could there be psychic prediction despite the variances that could change it at the instant it being known? It had to be there in the first place to see it actually coming to pass.That's a very interesting viewpoint Copuldaemon. Thanks for that...

Kain

[Wezzard]

That's probably a much better way to put it...wouldn't be the first time one of my ideas hit the dirt...lol...

it would seem there is no getting people to break the habit of thinking of this in terms of "mental illness". Save only in the more extreme cases, I usually think of the more functional forms of autism as a kind of magnification "edge" or "lens"...

not without a certain cost perhaps, but oh well...

m1thr0s

Must thank you for the strength & sustenance your position gave me in a recent skirmish, asif an Adept might carry Liber vel Legis as sole support across the Abyss were your words.
Aah, since when are you wrong about anything anyway, how humble.

I'm running with the interpretation here that this Autism manifests as a basic social withdrawal due to congenital introspection, damn the rest.

But they insist ? OK, OK but you were right to be wrong !

The snow falls hard outside, justifying one last post.

[m1thr0s]

there might be some small part of me that's never wrong...I only run into it very rarely though.

The rest of me has just learned how to fall I think...

m1thr0s

[Kuroyagi]

there might be some small part of me that's never wrong...I only run into it very rarely though.

The rest of me has just learned how to fall I think...

m1thr0s
Maybe I'll frame this and hang it on my wall- cause its so true on more levels. I was instantly reminded of sports/ or martial arts! Im quite a good skiier and when I taught a beginner and he asked me: why arent you afraid of that incredible speed? I (thinking about it for the first time) intuitively said: cause Im not afraid to fall, anymore. *thumps up*!

[Naomi]

Yeah Kuroyagi that's what kneepads and crotch guards are for...:tsmile:

[Kuroyagi]

You're obviously no skiier. ;)

[m1thr0s]

rofl...she's got flight down pretty good though!

m1

[Ðanisty]

Wow...just checked out this thread. That's what I get for being absent so long. I'm really amazed by the list of autistic characters and people. I think nearly all of my favorite characters are on that list, but most especially, Sherlock Holmes. Also, the list of those with epilepsy...one of my favorite historical figures of all time is Alexander the Great.

On another forum I frequent, I've noticed that those who've openly talked about having Asperger's tend to be people who do not follow a conventional spirituality. I definitely think there's something to this, but I wouldn't limit it to Satanism (not that I think you're doing that).

[m1thr0s]

no...not limited to Satanism, although Satanism at its best does have a number of very attractive characteristics for AS people I think...not that we very often find it *at its best*, however...

I don't know...I still read up on this stuff occasionally. I was diagnosed with the stuff years ago but that doesn't always mean anything. So then just tonight I'm browsing through this book and two things jump out at me almost in unison: (1) AS people tend to take things very literally (2) AS people are known for their ability to cultivate *special interests* that they then pursue with an unsettling vengeance...

So I'm thinking, hmmm...that sounds familiar. From pretty much day one I have always taken AC's *star* thesis perfectly literally and I have committed more time to Abrahadabra alone (including its off-shoots) than would ordinarily be taken up by maybe 1/2 dozen Ph.D.'s...without exaggeration...I know a fair number of Ph.D.'s and have a pretty good guess at the the time and energy they invested to achieve their degrees...yet I have no degree and even a book seems distant owing to the complexity and yes, *special interest* character of the subject matter...

Why the f*ck did I do that? What the f*ck was I thinking? Nobody can answer that really...not even me. Seemed like a good idea at the time, as they say.

But you know...it can still pan out to the good...that is to say...that work has been pretty disciplined stuff and can still amount to a lot of good down the line since I have been able to unearth a number of important things that people actually can understand and validate for themselves and so on...But you would almost have to be a little nuts to spend that much of your life pursuing something that might never do a godamm thing for you over the course of an entire lifetime.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Who gives a f*ck about Ph.D.'s...it's all just another cog in the machine....a machine that grinds away at human live to use as bricks for the tower and uses the misery of the masses as the mortar. Brainwashing to make you think you're important and special or 'educated' yeah I examined that one pretty hard way into the future and I knew at the end of it it was all a bunch of a bullshit. I could get a Ph.d in just about anything if I wanted to - but there's this subconscious awareness (now fully conscious awareness) of something just not right about this system.

I mean, lol, you can just look around you to realize this whole education system is just a bandage to cover something much bigger than a need for more scientists and doctors.

I notice something, when I talk to people involved in the sciences, especially the medical field - there's this degenerative, sinking feeling of hopelessness and despair, as they realize their work, in the long run, doesn't make a difference. To quote one guy "It just gets worse and worse everyday." They spend hours and hours grueling away at hospitals in the suburbs bringing old people back from the dead. Heart attacks - people that spent their whole lives stuffing their faces with cholesterol laden food when an ocean away there is abject poverty, with thousands of people dying because they have no food. How do you think that makes you feel at the end of the day? Pretty depressed - I have three family members who are in the medical field.

Scientists spend their whole lives developing technology that will be used in yet another war, or to develop yet another bandage pharmaceutical. They study animal biology only to watch that species come closer and closer to the brink of extinction each day. What a waste of life. We don't need another f*cking bandage.

It's all bullshit....just another gilded trap. I keep telling people, you're going to die at the end of the day anyways. Personally, I don't want to be remembered for working at some huge corporation and having a few stupid animated movies or video games to my name. I don't need a college degree to prove I can draw, paint or render textures - my college professors were morons! I only need knowledge. People have lost sight of the value of knowledge. Conforming to this koli yug can only bring misery in the end - game over.

My generation has no respect whatsoever for degrees or society, so I guess we've got a different perspective on things. Fame is a fast and easy thing - and one doesn't need that much money to survive, if you avoid the conformist traps.
I find it more impressive, that I'm able to take one look at your tree field mirrors, have all the ligaments in my body cured instantly, have the wildest craziest visions I've ever had in my life, and then go on to have the best sex in my life ever, apparently with Sumerian gods I've never even really heard of before, for several months, every night. Yeah - I think your work payed off - the cool thing is nobody can access this stuff without the keys - they can't analyze it, package and process it and sell it in a bottle. People are going to have to shift their minds to get it. And trust me - you would die for this stuff - or maybe live.

Imagine Ningishzidda with a Ph.D.:rolleyes:

[Nuhad418]

Who gives a f*ck about Ph.D.'s...it's all just another cog in the machine....a machine that grinds away at human live to use as bricks for the tower and uses the misery of the masses as the mortar. Brainwashing to make you think you're important and special or 'educated' yeah I examined that one pretty hard way into the future and I knew at the end of it it was all a bunch of a bullshit. I could get a Ph.d in just about anything if I wanted to - but there's this subconscious awareness (now fully conscious awareness) of something just not right about this system.



ummm...I would venture to guess not all Ph.D.s fall under this description. I find that reactions like this are often due to feelings of inadequacy or perceived past slights from the academy. Sometimes people want to get the Ph.D. to challenge themselves and to have at least two other people who have dedicated years of their lives to a similar area test them so as to avoid self delusion. Not sure how that is a "bad" thing. Also, the "system" you mention is different in every country...can you be more specific Naomi?

[m1thr0s]

Yeah - I think your work payed off - the cool thing is nobody can access this stuff without the keys - they can't analyze it, package and process it and sell it in a bottle. People are going to have to shift their minds to get it. And trust me - you would die for this stuff - or maybe live.somehow it always seems to sound like I regret something...which I do not. One cannot escape a certain sense of estrangement working so hard in an area almost no one seems to understand...but again...the so-called AS Mindset isn't really phased by that very much. It's all an art for art's sake sort of deal really, understanding that power reaps its own rewards anyway...so there is nothing to fear or regret.

My interest in all of this is mostly idle curiosity anymore...it's too late to reverse anything anyway and I probably wouldn't want to given the option. On the other hand, if some looney tunes outfit out there someplace wants to throw a bunch of money at me for being an exemplary idiot savante, I probably wouldn't turn them down...lol

won't hold my breath waiting for that check to arrive in the mail or anything though...

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Inevitably some people will feel slighted or cling to the old standards because they worked so hard to attain a particle of thought. It's about freedom and evolution - the system I am referring to is the very core of humanity on the planet earth itself - there's no one country not forming a part of the matrix. In the end, what matters is the selflessness of our actions, the purity of intent, and the wisdom and compassion carried through until the end of our enslavement - or service here.

[Nuhad418]

Inevitably some people will feel slighted or cling to the old standards because they worked so hard to attain a particle of thought. It's about freedom and evolution - the system I am referring to is the very core of humanity on the planet earth itself - there's no one country not forming a part of the matrix. In the end, what matters is the selflessness of our actions, the purity of intent, and the wisdom and compassion carried through until the end of our enslavement - or service here.

I'm not sure feeling slighted is at issue here; certainly not in my case anyway. You made several generalisations in your statement and I'm trying to understand what it is you are actually saying. I asked what educational system you were referring to (North American, European, etc.) and the response I get is at the very core of humanity. What do you mean by this? What matrix? Again what does In the end, what matters is the selflessness of our actions, the purity of intent, and the wisdom and compassion carried through until the end of our enslavement - or service here this mean? You said Who gives a f*ck about Ph.D.'s which implies to me that this designation (broad as it is) has no meaning for anyone. How is your imposition of this statement encouraging freedom, selflessness, wisdom, or compassion? All I see is intent with no content. I'm not trying to be difficult but I often just skim over posts without pausing to actually read them. Now I'm reading them and am trying to figure out how people are thinking and what motivates them to post.

[Naomi]

somehow it always seems to sound like I regret something...which I do not. One cannot escape a certain sense of estrangement working so hard in an area almost no one seems to understand...but again...the so-called AS Mindset isn't really phased by that very much. It's all an art for art's sake sort of deal really, understanding that power reaps its own rewards anyway...so there is nothing to fear or regret.

My interest in all of this is mostly idle curiosity anymore...it's too late to reverse anything anyway and I probably wouldn't want to given the option. On the other hand, if some looney tunes outfit out there someplace wants to throw a bunch of money at me for being an exemplary idiot savante, I probably wouldn't turn them down...lol

won't hold my breath waiting for that check to arrive in the mail or anything though...

m1thr0s


Well, the first thing that cued me in that the education system was all a bunch of BS was when I was 15, reading through a stack of paleontology books and discovered John Horner, a very well respected Paleontologist by then, had failed to graduate the University of Montana, after his work with Jurassic Park which made him famous, another University had considered granting him an honorary degree. I've had a lot of time to think about it since then and you know - the only systems in the world you can't learn from reading a book or talking to people is the occult (from tantra to alchemy and everywhere in between) and the medical field (at some point you have to dissect a body.) I read too much Darwin to be interested in the medical profession I think. :cool:

The education system is a crushing draining force that separates the mind from nature and experience itself - everything needs to change, a complete overhaul and evaluation of what constitutes 'genius' hence, I still hold true to my opinion that the labels need to be discarded.

I'm not angry at individuals, I'm aware that the nature of the system itself is more powerful than any one ordinary individual's mind. My focus is to figure out a way to release people from servitude or feelings of obligation to the system so that they are more free to pursue their...true will, lol....

Here's an article on that guy, Horner, by the way he's my second favorite paleontologist of all time:

http://live.psu.edu/story/15611

Perhaps most exceptional about Horner's accomplishments is the fact that he struggled with undiagnosed dyslexia for much of his life. Although the learning disability interfered with his ability to earn the grades necessary for him to finish his degree at the University of Montana, it could never detract from his passion for paleontology and his desire to excel in his field.

"Because I am dyslexic, I believe I offer a different approach to certain subjects," he has said. "I think differently, and that makes me ask questions differently … Do [the things you love] your way. Don't worry about other peoples' expectations."

[m1thr0s]

ummm...I would venture to guess not all Ph.D.s fall under this description. I find that reactions like this are often due to feelings of inadequacy or perceived past slights from the academy. Sometimes people want to get the Ph.D. to challenge themselves and to have at least two other people who have dedicated years of their lives to a similar area test them so as to avoid self delusion. Not sure how that is a "bad" thing. Also, the "system" you mention is different in every country...can you be more specific Naomi?
there are some serious kinds of problems going on here that do need to find some way of being addressed, although I don't quite know if it would ever really be possible. It seems to me that the real problem with academia is all about the money. I don't personally resent anybody getting rewarded for the work and sacrifice they may have put in to achieve anything of merit. Why would that bother me? That's fucking cool is what that is!

But it is also a little sad to note that there are whole branches of intellectual pursuits that go unrewarded and unencouraged and even outright punished because of the fact that they fall outside of the financial radar systems of academia at large. There's nowhere you can go to get a research grant or an field research assist or anything like that. Naomi is right about the system being just a little too prissy for its own good because a fair chunk of those people working their asses off "under the radar" as it were are going to wind up being the leaders in the academics of tomorrow...but right here...right now...right today...they can fuck off and die so far as the academic community is concerned.

Not so much as a personal attitude from people to people in any way as it is the way things are set up...the way the game is played vs the way it is not allowed to be played etc...and this has a lot to do with money and goes to how money seeks to control academia in general...

Nobody's fault exactly...but still a serious problem I think.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

How is your imposition of this statement encouraging freedom, selflessness, wisdom, or compassion? All I see is intent with no content. I'm not trying to be difficult but I often just skim over posts without pausing to actually read them. Now I'm reading them and am trying to figure out how people are thinking and what motivates them to post.

Made you think - I don't have to encourage selflessness, wisdom, or compassion- it's not my job. I can be free, selfless, wise and compassionate, in my own way, however. I don't think you're difficult. lol;)

[Nuhad418]

there are some serious kinds of problems going on here that do need to find some way of being addressed, although I don't quite know if it would ever really be possible. It seems to me that the real problem with academia is all about the money. I don't personally resent anybody getting rewarded for the work and sacrifice they may have put in to achieve anything of merit. Why would that bother me? That's fucking cool is what that is!

But it is also a little sad to note that there are whole branches of intellectual pursuits that go unrewarded and unencouraged and even outright punished because of the fact that they fall outside of the financial radar systems of academia at large. There's nowhere you can go to get a research grant or an field research assist or anything like that. Naomi is right about the system being just a little too prissy for its own good because a fair chunk of those people working their asses off "under the radar" as it were are going to wind up being the leaders in the academics of tomorrow...but right here...right now...right today...they can fuck off and die so far as the academic community is concerned.

Not so much as a personal attitude from people to people in any way as it is the way things are set up...the way the game is played vs the way it is not allowed to be played etc...and this has a lot to do with money and goes to how money seeks to control academia in general...

Nobody's fault exactly...but still a serious problem I think.

m1thr0s

I didn't bother to check for spelling mistakes..just assume they are mysteries to be solved lol

Both you and Naomi make important and valid points. The problem is there are many problems with the system (having been a student since 1991 and working within administration for 6 years I have experienced them first hand). Money is one major problem. Most arts faculties teach large classes to support, among other things, engineering departments. Those departments cost money they don't make any but they do bring in external investment. I think what the problem is is that university is supposed to be elitist. Not everyone is supposed to go or should go. By making that the control for education all sorts of crap gets passed off as social norm. The intellectual prowess in some place like these forums is astounding. I don't elevate or denegrate anyone based on letters. That said, we all make sacrifices to attain what we have. Some academics are born bright, apply themselves, and go right into teaching or researching (with or without the aid/curse of OCD :-) ). Others, like myself, have to work full-time (two or three jobs at a time--doing less than prissy work I might add :laugh:) only to be greeted with the question "What's that going to do for you?" "You spent how much money? When are you going to get a real job?" When did learning become something pragmatic rather than a course of action in and of itself? Good gods.

PhD should indicate an initiation within academics not society. It should not equate to personal worth or growth. These are all persona issues and rather childish. It happens, for sure, but knee jerk reactions to the "system" valid or not in the main, are not helpful; they reinforce the very problems being aired. A local radio station once interviewed a professor who said all academics have a duty to present different perspectives to various social issues. People who work outside the academy don't have the time or inclination to do so (and if they do they should be helped not crushed by the academy). Someone needs to make the first step in seeing through the grunge in the academy as well as giving credit where it is due. I think it comes down to people identifying, on what ever level, with a title. That's not healthy in any way.

[Nuhad418]

I don't think you're difficult. lol;) That's good...but then so many hours have been wasted trying to be annoying! :rofl:

[m1thr0s]

well...when the Thelemites come to power and Liber Oz becomes the Law of the Land, maybe I can finally apply for a field research grant in Trigrammaton - both physics and practical applications...

till then it's really kind of a duck-and-dodge routine...

so...when's that *rich man from the west* supposed to get here? lol...

m1thr0s

[Nuhad418]

well...when the Thelemites come to power and Liber Oz becomes the Law of the Land, maybe I can finally apply for a field research grant in Trigrammaton - both physics and practical applications...

till then it's really kind of a duck-and-dodge routine...

so...when's that *rich man from the west* supposed to get here? lol...

m1thr0s

I had that conversation one time. Someone asked me if I would want a Thelemic society. I said are you nuts no Thelemite I know could budget shit...lots of nice art and great ideas...not so much with infrastructure :rofl:

[m1thr0s]

damn...no time soon then...oh well...

no matter...the whole issue crosses boundaries big time so it has to be approached from some other angle. right now it's still down to individuals to lift themselves up somehow but there are a lot of built-in limitations...

I'm still trying to sort this out...what the hell is it...Intentional Community? What? Gotta be some angle that would help a little at least...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

right now it's still down to individuals to lift themselves up somehow but there are a lot of built-in limitations...

We do now have the ultimate tool...

This system that interconnects the individuals...

{Our computers are merely the interfaces}

It was the missing link; mass synchronisation... ;)

[m1thr0s]

I do think that is true, although it's hardly a slam-dunk just yet...

but obscure or not, themes whose ultimate relevance is global and even universal have to be discussed...even if only by a few at first...

and it's not the kind of thing where the Lone Ranger can just ride in all by himself and whip the solution into place...it's going to require cooperative alliance to sort everything out just so...

m1thr0s

[Ci Celli Ddu]

It was the missing link; mass synchronisation... ;)

Please don't use words like that. They're scary. ;)

[MythMath]

I'm not suggesting uniform droneclones or anything... :no:

More like spiritual entrainment
via simultaneously-focused
intentional energy vortices... :yes:

[Naomi]

hehehehehehe intentional energy vortices!

[frater luciferi]

i have been thinking about this whole thing for a long while now, and now have the clarity of mind to come to it. I often find myself suffering from the very hellish handicap of being second guessed at everything-even though in a work situation i am often the one explaining to other people how to do things-ie perceiving intellectually the grand sceme of things vs. being the hands involved in the processes of maintaining the production process. My last job i was responsible for coming up with ways to make the production process more efficient- from an average 12 -15 hour day, cut down to a 8. But of course i recieved no credit because i was "slow". LOL and i would often be the only one in my work that would read books during lunch or read books at all.....but after a while being treated like your dumb gets to you, and i stopped trying and played dumb.

idiots treating you like your an idiot. I quickly left that job. Frustrated that the company was determined to alienate all of its employees as well as "inprison"" them. I think that is why a lot of people with aspergers work solitary esoteric jobs-
example my father is a teacher-not tremendously solitary but he is very social for an autistic, my brother is an engineer, my other brother is in school to be an archetect. if that was any indication of genetic predispotion to intelligence i dont know wat is-however the bad wiring gives off that illusion of "stupidity". if that could/would affect my own temperment towards the world=it is that i am hardwired to be misunderstood. SO i say fuck the world and i live by my own set of standards, not like america is very enlightened in the least and especially the location that I live in.

excuse the phrase but quite often i feel as if i am a "white nigger". the conotation is rather odvious sense the literal interpritation of the word "nigger" is merely a word that the slaveowners gave to inferiors. Which i am not or will never feel like. but to try to explain to people beyond shallow intepritation is assinine. I will never entirely fit in as "normal". so i am forced to defend my "freakness".

not sure exactly why i shared this, but it was partly a need to vent. at least my words show proof of my worth. the burgeois can suck on that as much as they want-until they suffer the sharp sword of my nihilist words.

[m1thr0s]

there's a strange sort of paradox going on here that I have never totally sorted out. It has often seemed to me that the people who are most ostracized are the ones who have the strongest commitment to the welfare of humankind as a whole. A strange sort of bubble machinery at work here of some kind that doesn't really make much sense. But there is something to be said for blowing off the smaller bubbles in favor of the bigger ones and learning to accept and live with that. It becomes especially difficult when one's base survival is locked into these smaller bubbles though...that's something that has to get worked out somehow.

So exact answers are never easy but there are patterns of success we can draw to regardless...some of these are ancient and some are fairly modern. One way or another, learning to content oneself with one's own natural inclinations is an important key to getting past all the turmoil of things never seeming to work out with more isolated groups...

Because they are isolated at the end of the day...they don't represent all people and they don't represent the best in people...they are just a random selection of however many assholes happened to land in a given bubble, period. You can afford to blow them off...they don't mean shit to beans actually.

m1thr0s

[frater luciferi]

people who have suffered indifference are more empathetic to the needs of the downtrodden.

[m1thr0s]

people who have suffered indifference are more empathetic to the needs of the downtrodden.right..but it doesn't end there. from the outside looking in it's all about the same sick damn monkey is it not? there are those who have espoused the notion that until you get really sick of the whole damn situation, you are simply not motivated enough to take any kind of meaningful action. On the one side you can't really see past your fucking pathetic little rewards schedule while on the other you will require there to exist divisions in kind that do not actually exist. So you won't ever actually do anything for yourself or anybody else on any kind of global scale because it still all comes down to how you are scoring (or not scoring) socially, as you imagine this to be.

Only the truly disenfranchised can afford to flush the whole thing down the tubes. It is difficult, in truth, not to want to vaporize it all, in point of fact. If this did not logically amount to the whole stinking pattern recreating itself from scratch, this might even be an affordable solution, but it isn't. The only way out is through and no one will really deal with that but those who have nothing else to lose, yet still have the wherewithal to weigh the matter clearly.

Nor am I saying that this is a good thing or a right thing in any way shape or form...it is not. It sucks shit essentially. But things are what they are and there can be a strength in that estrangement that completely dominates its own oppressive circumstances. Everything...absolutely everything of value in my opnion...boils down to the actions of a very few individuals acting on behalf of the whole worthless lot. Not so much because they even want to, but because there is no other where to go and they know it...and cannot escape that which they know.

Altruism is a godamm lie against the Holy Spirit itself...the true survivalist deals from necessity and nothing more or less than this. And if that's a little depressing...fuck it man, welcome to the real world...you can go back to sleep now.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

People try to help don't they...they donate to the Red Cross or UNICEF or other lame organizations that don't amount to shit at the end of the day.

I think people are just stupid and scared that's all. I mean it takes a lot of guts to face the world's problems face on, even for a god. It's about as appealing as washing a sink full of somebody else's dirty dishes.

I mean, you come down here right...you give up all of your memories and superpowers to penetrate this insane system, all to come to the aid of a bunch of assholes who constantly remind you of their stupidity and ugliness on a daily basis. To make matters worse, they threaten to torture and imprison you for not acting like a slave! That's a hostile work enviroment.

[Naomi]

Alright, look, cool idea, but autistics dude? It makes us sound like spastics. And yes, I know, very true, compassion and all that, they can't help being that way, medical science owes them, w/e, but they're just unstylish. Doesn't look good. Why not say the same-ish thing in a different way, for example they are focused, into attention-to-detail and meditatively aware of the higher powers, such as what is sometimes called Third Eye or Sixth Sense? And are close to the Warrior path talked of in Shamanism, or the Kingly Path.

Yeah I'll be fucking damned if you see me lining up to go to a psychologist to get a label for my unique divinity.

It's all a bunch of bullshit designed to control and decieve. Let's be real fucking clear on what psychiatry is for - the treatment of mental illness. All of the labels arising from psychiatry are geared towards curing something. Do I really want to trust in an organization that wants to burn away my uniqueness in the name of conformity? I mean what the fuck, seriously...I imagine if I walked into a psychatrist's office and told them what I really think I could come out with a whole bunch of not-so-nifty titles, psychopathy being the main one - not coincidental I think, considering my function.

Yeah sign me up for a whole hour of wasting my time, it'll only cost me what $100? Then I get to pay for mind stupefying pills I imagine....oh yay.

Definitely I think we should avoid associating Satanism with any sort of disease or disorder... or with anything which is perceived or defined as such by the mainstream / public.


Agreed....

Coolest way I know to go there is calling the 'Living in the Head' and 'paying attention to detail' things the Ninja discipline of 'Mind and Eyes of God' talked of by Takamatsu: the humans always respect those who are biologically their elders, because they are built that way, and the group karma / influences there are covered by the fact that, within the groups of his day, Takamatsu was highly esteemed. Then we've also got the public on a Paradox Lock because it is 'Mind and Eyes of God' and Satanism. When they're locked like that they never know what to do and don't hassle or interfere. Also, they will suspect we are superior to them, which is always good practice where opponents are concerned. Contrarily, if they aligned Satanism with Autism or something they could or do view as a weakness then they could view themselves as superior to us, something which I do not think is wise really when not in a very externally dominant position. And even then, the inferior, they should know their place. I am elitist in that way...

Yeah why bother bending to their idiotic little titles and schemes? They don't know what's going on, never have and come up with this rediculous "science&quo