The practice of Psychokinetics

[Kain]

A recent private request by a member made me realize the lack of such a discussion (until now) for this practice. Thank you for bringing this subject up. Personally, I find Psychokinetics (also known as Telekinesis/Telekinetics, the practice of moving physical objects through the faculty of mind and/or thought alone) a most profoundly important practice, both for it's immense quality as an experimental technique as far as methods of energy work go that need to be tested, and also for it's ability to direct one's subtle field-work all the way to influencing "gross" matter directly. So Psychokinetics, even in an elementary level, can prove incredibly useful both for testing out energy manipulation methods and for finding/mapping our way directly between *initial thought* and *physical action/matter*, thus managing to bridge the so-called 'gap' between Mind and Matter in a very pragmatic manner.

Levitation of one's own body, a most well-known form of Psychokinetics, is said to be a naturally attained Siddhi ("occult" ability/power) after a prolonged practice of Yogic Sadhana (http://www.google.gr/search?hl=el&q=define%3A+sadhana&btnG=%CE%91%CE%BD%CE%B1%CE%B6%CE%AE%CF%84%CE%B7%CF %83%CE%B7+Google&meta=). Still, even though Levitation may be a rather advanced aspect of Psychokinetics, there are a lot more modest and directly attainable goals within this same field. The (arguably) easiest of Psychokinesis beginner excercises, that of the paper wheel on a pin (http://uploads.abovetopsecret.com/ats42114_psiwheel.jpg), took me about 50 minutes to bring about after initially reading about it being possible. I then moved on to increasing distance and also the number of wheels, alternating their movement directions/speeds etc...there's no limit to adding micromanagement terms in your practice after you achieve the original excercise.

Over the years, I have used Psychokinesis excercises mainly as a 'hub' for my various kinds of energy work to eventually ground at (rather than being interested with the amount of weight being actually lifted or pushed in itself etc). It originally helped me to hone my abilities of perception and differentiate them from any possible events of 'fictional visualization', thus giving me a pragmatic lead as to whether my instincts and perceptions about my subtle body's anatomical constitution and state actually had a firm footing in Reality itself, and not being mere mental elaborations. It is also a practice that has helped me test the interractive ability between the body's centers (the ability of a said surge of energy to travel through them unimpeded/unaltered), their capacity for energetic transmision (transmitting a certain surge to something external) and also even the power of their bija (seed) - mantras (the letters and sounds associated with their functions). All such aspects of energy work are usually attended to through internal workings and/or meditation excercises, yet I have always found it immensely helpful to also relate to the physical aspect of things in order to intensify the nature of my findings. If not during a meditation excercise, I would try it right after and so on...

I always felt that Psychokinesis was an ability most instructive about the principles pertaining to the universal phenomenon of Manifestation itself. How a subtle concept, principle or tendency could go about descending into density and affecting change in it's gross surroundings, making a dense mirror of it's initial subtle nature...the mechanics of such a process are slowly unfolded through the practice of manifesting one's thoughts of physical movement, and portray the familiar steps we are presented with in the Cosmology of so many philosophical and religious doctrines, yet do so in such a more tangible and directly/vividly experienced fashion that I would go so far as to consider the practice perhaps one of the most powerful ways of directly experiencing the phenomenon of Universal Creation as that unfolds between planes of various densities, even if it does so in the microcosm of our own energy practice. I would class it as my number one 'Lab Alchemy' endeavour, promoting movement in so many ways through the change that occurs between the interraction of various subtle energy-fields that one builds and controls.

Due to the essential descent of the concept of change and movement through the various layers/planes that differentiate it from gross physical matter, the practice, owing to it's direct nature of influence between various planes at once, manages to inform us about the feel and inherent tendencies of the various layers of our psyche that compose our being and also bridge the way between subject and object. Since our goal is the successful conveyance of the thought's intent through different planes (yet planes where thought does not naturally tend to lie), we perceive, and in fact are called to maintain, a constant dance between the (desirably) unaltered content of the message we want to convey and the ever-changing hue of the environments it traverses in it's descent into form/matter. We need to learn to discern the local language/code of the altitude we are working with as it is essential for the successful conveyance of the message. Otherwise it would be like hoping to convey a very particular descriptive concept through a nation of people speaking a different language than ours through mechanic repetition of our own word system...it will not do, as what we are met with is absolute lack of understanding by the 'locals'. What needs to occur is an understanding of the local "dialect" and a transfiguration of our initial message into a new and fiting form, in accordance with it's new surroundings (thus maintaining the wordless concept, but cloaking it in a different form). Another example of the above difficulty would be a realization that the way enviromental conditions and physical laws work in an air-filled space, do not remain the same when traversing an area filled with water, nor with honey, stone, or an area devoid of gravity. So, this process of "fitting in while staying the same" needs to be conducted in all situations of different heights until it becomes an unconscious habit. By learning the feel of the different regions and how they communicate with one another, we also learn the route of direct communication between different aspects of ourselves (i.e. mental altitudes, emotional altitudes, semi-subconscious notions/areas etc). Synchronization of those aspects occurs through constant repetition of the route "scales" (sort of like training musical scales, or learning codes of passage) and thus synchronization of the aspects of Self slowly takes place, and also Self-Understanding.

So Psychokinesis is a very auspicious process where we directly synchronize two apparent "pollar extremes" (Mind and Matter) and everything that lies between, a most powerful practice that should not be taken lightly. Differences of time between initial thought conception and it's manifestation (or even differences between initial conception and manifestation itself, i.e. a direction/speed different than the one desired) show a relative clogging of the channels and centers, and also a general slothfulness/unwillingness of the subtle anatomy to synchronize it's various parts in a combined whole. It is similar to being physically unfit or out of shape, and improves with time.

Most of the time I am working with a number of pin-wheels in a meter or so from me while having them covered by a transparent screen (or all-around container) that shields them from potential air currents. I have however over the years manifested various kinds of movement in various ways, even if at times totally spontaneously...switches, electrical wires, flashing lightbulbs, a 100 gr flashlight, and even a reanimated almond-tree flower-bud (http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showpost.php?p=2027&postcount=2) (that kept up it's reanimation whenever I'd focus on it for about a month's time) are among the most interesting objects I have worked with until now...

So, overall, I feel that Psychokinesis is a lot more important than what it is often made out to be, and deserves a bit more credit as a practice of actual pragmatic worth and method cultivating greater self-awareness. It is hands down one of the most directly instructive practices I have ever engaged at until now...

Kain

[Naomi]

I stopped practicing this after fucking up my computers several times. I don't think PK and magnetic hard drives are a good mixture.


So anyways....we want to be able to fly. Do you think this will be possible through training within a thousand years?

[Kain]

I stopped practicing this after fucking up my computers several times. I don't think PK and magnetic hard drives are a good mixture. You know, I've heard this from a lot of people yet I've never had any problems with house appliances of any kind no matter how often I practice daily. My own perception of the matter is that they shouldn't be affected since I'm not attending to *their* particular placement etc...but it is commonly referred and I don't know why some people get it and others don't. The most evident side-effects I've had with this is sensitive lightbulbs that may flicker or flash on and off once a month or so, but hardly anything drastic outside of my immediate targets...

...Of course...on the other hand, neither the almond tree flower bud was within my immediate targets as that post of mine describes...so I don't know, perhaps I get area sid-effects of a different sort.

I should also note that I have not noted any particular resonance with particular materials. There are people who claim that iron and tin-foil are more easily manipulable due to their metallic nature, while others claim that paper is more easily manipulable due to it's organic nature. I've personally found it equally easy to affect all sorts of materials, organic or non-organic, as long as their respective weight was within my abilities to influence.
So anyways....we want to be able to fly. Do you think this will be possible through training within a thousand years?Do you mean collectively or in particular cases? I think that collectively (as in our commonly accepted set of abilities) we still have a long way to go, yet in serious yogic applications and practices, levitation is hardly a goal but rather a documented fact of extended daily practice. In various sources of ancient texts the basic outline of pranayama practice (being only a small fraction of the overall yogic set of practices) is:"In the first stage, the aspirant's body experiences extreme perspiration. In the second stage, intense shaking. In the third, the body levitates". It is said that after the shaking the practitioner may experience spontaneous and invuluntary "jumps" of his body while in posture, often likened to the jumps of a toad. This is said to be the begining stages of levitation. So in the end it's really a matter of successful pranayama I beleive (if we're looking for one of the more structured and easily describable ways of attainance of course, as I'm sure there are many ways to get to this end) but I think the main reason we don't get publicly verifiable cases of this sort of thing is due to the fact that very few people practice this kind of practice sufficiently hard for the mastering of the ability to come about (and the few who do are too far away from social lights to be encountered).

Kain

[Okazaki Castle]

Have you tried applying telekinesis internally, on someone else's body? Do you feel such would be possible? For example, to be used in healing applications...

Interesting thread btw...

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Kain]

Have you tried applying telekinesis internally, on someone else's body? Do you feel such would be possible? For example, to be used in healing applications...

Interesting thread btw...Thanks Oazaki. I think that would be quite possible and I also think that this is actually occuring to some extent in all of us. One's own body is naturally a lot more receptive than an external object, and I think this also covers someone else's body to a lesser extent (not of the same *organism* per se, but certainly of closer and more familiar build than anything inorganic, and thus furthering resonance).

I have been getting various energy burns of a physical nature whenever I did something wrong throughout the years I have been experimenting with this phenomenon. In the past, I would get a lot, and some have left permanent scars. I think this is an effect of passive Psychokinesis phenomena within one's own body as energy courses through it (I say passive because it is not an effect one consciously brought about but more rather an effect that simply came about by the course of energy in that area). This would also explain the absolutely immense and equally direct psychosomatic effects some people, including myself, may get under certain conditions. The physical body is directed by this energy in ways a lot more powerful, direct and intricate than those it manipulates an external object, owning to the inherent resonance of the two.

Keeping this in mind, I think a lot of what direct healing abilities essentially are is largely governed by this principle, at least in cases where a direct physical healing takes place. My reasoning is the following: Since physical matter is altered in whatever way, and since this occurs at the exact same moment it is manipulated to do so (real-time), isn't it essentially a form of Psychokinesis?

Kain

[m1thr0s]

So, overall, I feel that Psychokinesis is a lot more important than what it is often made out to be, and deserves a bit more credit as a practice of actual pragmatic worth and method cultivating greater self-awareness. It is hands down one of the most directly instructive practices I have ever engaged at until now...this all rings true to me, though one almost needs a separate planet to run such experiments to any great extent...the idea of the military getting hold of this stuff is prety creepy...not that they haven't already tried it...

For the mostpart, I think the military lacks the proper mental set to ever get things right anyway...too focused on the end result to manage the process correctly...

Keeping this in mind, I think a lot of what direct healing abilities essentially are is largely governed by this principle, at least in cases where a direct physical healing takes place. My reasoning is the following: Since physical matter is altered in whatever way, and since this occurs at the exact same moment it is manipulated to do so (real-time), isn't it essentially a form of Psychokinesis?that's a little hard to answer at this pass...in part because I am still personally fumbling for a definition of Psychokinesis that makes it any different than anything else. Certainly the mind plays a well documented role in the healing arts and always has. This is really no different with modern medicine than it was in ancient times...only our props have got a bit better in many cases...probably not as good in others.

and yet the mind is also governed according to laws and generally does not appear to want to violate or overwrite those laws too abrubtly...so we see situations where people have suddenly healed themselves or perhaps been "tricked" into doing so in some way which, once they realize that this has occurred, the "cure" begins to break down and the condition returns. I have always thought that this is probably due to the mind's own inability to accept what it has done, since it was done outside the jurisdiction of these so-called "laws"...yet this is how the mind seems to need to operate for the most part.

so now all of a sudden we have this new term to contend with...Psychokinesis...but what does it really mean? In the example of levitation for instance, this is usually just one aspect of a whole range of studies a person might undertake in certain parts of the world...usually remote and as far away from the eyes of the media as possible. Is levitation Psychokinesis while other aspects of tantricism are not? This is where I begin to get a bit confused...

The classical Hermetic view on this is fairly clear...since mind & matter are intimately linked anyway, there really is no reason to think that the mind is not ultimately able to do anything it might imagine...it's the *how* that runs us into problems. More time and energy goes into negotiating the *how* than just about anything else I think...

I have sort of reached a place of half-understanding at least. It occurs to me we must satisfy the mind's requirement to be in adherence to the laws of nature as a part of direct mind manipulation practises somehow...for me this all boils down to energy itself, since in a condition where psychic energy has been sufficiently *raised*, suddenly many *permissions* become available that would have been otherwise slammed shut tight. So there is a natural *middle-ground* going on with all of this if we can identify it and work with it effectively...

But all in all...military or no damn military, I think this is something that needs to be attended to on a regular basis as an integrated part of everything else we might try to do realize higher states of accessable human potential.

m1thr0s

[Lucian]

If the military ever developed a successful psychokinetics or psycho anything program, we would infiltrate, work our way up through the ranks, master the program, perform a coup, and become the new bosses. Hopefully as "philosopher-kings" rather than spoiled children with dangerous toys.

I could think of worse things.

Very interesting thread, btw.

[Kain]

this all rings true to me, though one almost needs a separate planet to run such experiments to any great extent...the idea of the military getting hold of this stuff is prety creepy...not that they haven't already tried it...

For the mostpart, I think the military lacks the proper mental set to ever get things right anyway...too focused on the end result to manage the process correctly...I think there's no real need to overtly worry about government and military experiments of any sort in this venue. It would do them perhaps a bit more good than addopting Pranayama, for instance. The main reason I hold this opinion is their essentially flawed outlook to such practices, an outlook and way of focus that will pretty much always deem them nearly useless compared to other possible options in their arsenal, no matter the era we are referring to. I'm pretty sure that such abilities have been and are still tried today experimentally, but since the approach of the military is essentially always the same, they are bound to have inferior results no matter how hard they may try to haness it. Such abilities, like all such practices, require a very particular and extremely rarefied state of mind that deems all such agendas utterly meaningless. Money, political power, geographical advantages, secrets, lies...it all loses any of it's holding power and is turned into thin air into the eyes of the person approaching the practice. You can't really avoid it, as the practice itself offers you a very definite "either-or" statement from early on in your working with it...by clinging to such motives, the "permissions" (great way to reffer to these, m1thr0s) instantly dwindle and become a shadow of themselves. By embracing the reality of the matter as it is, no such motives make sense to you any more. I suppose progress can still be made with the motives, but it would be a joke before Reality and thus never really work in mass proportions...so we're entering a logical gateway/failsafe of the nature of Mind itself in this subject I think, the Mind not allowing itself to sabotage it's own self through weapons of mass destruction. One cannot really ever properly assume the consciousness of Shaktiman (Power Holder) and still be subject to the whims of the veil of Maya...I think that's very related with this discussion.

so now all of a sudden we have this new term to contend with...Psychokinesis...but what does it really mean? In the example of levitation for instance, this is usually just one aspect of a whole range of studies a person might undertake in certain parts of the world...usually remote and as far away from the eyes of the media as possible. Is levitation Psychokinesis while other aspects of tantricism are not? This is where I begin to get a bit confused...

The classical Hermetic view on this is fairly clear...since mind & matter are intimately linked anyway, there really is no reason to think that the mind is not ultimately able to do anything it might imagine...it's the *how* that runs us into problems. More time and energy goes into negotiating the *how* than just about anything else I think...

I have sort of reached a place of half-understanding at least. It occurs to me we must satisfy the mind's requirement to be in adherence to the laws of nature as a part of direct mind manipulation practises somehow...for me this all boils down to energy itself, since in a condition where psychic energy has been sufficiently *raised*, suddenly many *permissions* become available that would have been otherwise slammed shut tight. So there is a natural *middle-ground* going on with all of this if we can identify it and work with it effectively...I agree with your viewpoint m1thr0s. As for defining Psychokinesis...I think it is more like a transitory but still functionaly important term, much like all useful labels. In the end, Matter and Mind are so intimately linked to even say that they are One, and if that is the case then no "practice" of application is ultimately different from any other. "Any act is a magickal act" as we often say. Still, within the world of Mind and Matter, there are patterns in their eternal dance which differentiate certain transitory but still insistant approaches of interraction, or phenomena. I think that, with the above assumptions, and within the context of Time (which is very important, because if we do not define the difference in the principle of Time then all forms of magick are essentially undifferentiated, 'direct' and 'indirect' having lost their meaning), Psychokinesis can be termed as any conscious manipulation of both Macrocosmic and Microcosmic principles in a joint, synchronous attempt to influence change upon an element of the Microcosm, while also consciously attending to the particulars of Time in that attempt. I am defining it as an influence of change "upon an element of the Microcosm", because it is there that Time is linearly perceived and thus there is meaning in real-time manipulations compared to indirect ones. So, unlike a 'spell' which manifests in it's own time, Psychokinesis is a practice in which even the time of manifestation is consciously fixed and attended to.

But all in all...military or no damn military, I think this is something that needs to be attended to on a regular basis as an integrated part of everything else we might try to do realize higher states of accessable human potential.I think so too, and I also think it is an aspect of practice that is very often overlooked...this also being one of the factors why many of our attempts in this field as human beings may remain only in theorizing (often correct theorizing too!) rather than actually also applying pragmatic change and possitively altering our accessible human potential.

Thanks m1thr0s, very insightful post.
If the military ever developed a successful psychokinetics or psycho anything program, we would infiltrate, work our way up through the ranks, master the program, perform a coup, and become the new bosses. Hopefully as "philosopher-kings" rather than spoiled children with dangerous toys.

I could think of worse things.

Very interesting thread, btw.Well, I think the ultimate victory of the 'philosopher-kings' is one of the few things that can never be avoided, but only stalled. Man is God, and Strife is only temporary...perhaps a passing trend of multiple personality syndrome...

Thanks Lucian,

Kain

[Naomi]

You know, I've heard this from a lot of people yet I've never had any problems with house appliances of any kind no matter how often I practice daily. My own perception of the matter is that they shouldn't be affected since I'm not attending to *their* particular placement etc...but it is commonly referred and I don't know why some people get it and others don't. The most evident side-effects I've had with this is sensitive lightbulbs that may flicker or flash on and off once a month or so, but hardly anything drastic outside of my immediate targets...

...Of course...on the other hand, neither the almond tree flower bud was within my immediate targets as that post of mine describes...so I don't know, perhaps I get area sid-effects of a different sort.

I should also note that I have not noted any particular resonance with particular materials. There are people who claim that iron and tin-foil are more easily manipulable due to their metallic nature, while others claim that paper is more easily manipulable due to it's organic nature. I've personally found it equally easy to affect all sorts of materials, organic or non-organic, as long as their respective weight was within my abilities to influence.
Do you mean collectively or in particular cases? I think that collectively (as in our commonly accepted set of abilities) we still have a long way to go, yet in serious yogic applications and practices, levitation is hardly a goal but rather a documented fact of extended daily practice. In various sources of ancient texts the basic outline of pranayama practice (being only a small fraction of the overall yogic set of practices) is:"In the first stage, the aspirant's body experiences extreme perspiration. In the second stage, intense shaking. In the third, the body levitates". It is said that after the shaking the practitioner may experience spontaneous and invuluntary "jumps" of his body while in posture, often likened to the jumps of a toad. This is said to be the begining stages of levitation. So in the end it's really a matter of successful pranayama I beleive (if we're looking for one of the more structured and easily describable ways of attainance of course, as I'm sure there are many ways to get to this end) but I think the main reason we don't get publicly verifiable cases of this sort of thing is due to the fact that very few people practice this kind of practice sufficiently hard for the mastering of the ability to come about (and the few who do are too far away from social lights to be encountered).

Kain

So I've seen a video of someone levitating like that, the jumping, and also setting something on fire. This was done by some monk. Are you saying this is all they can do right now or that flying is already achievable and practiced frequently?

Bardon details how to make a mango tree grow in a single night from a seed as well though I never had enough time or consideration to want to do that actually...

But flying would be useful and get people excited and perhaps practicing this en masse, and we want flying....because it's cool. So can we assert that flying is a definate possibility?

[m1thr0s]

...why many of our attempts in this field as human beings may remain only in theorizing (often correct theorizing too!) rather than actually also applying pragmatic change and possitively altering our accessible human potential.the problem as I have observed it is largely one of sorting out the right kinds of experiments as well as the right order in which to approach things. I admit to not having attempted this much, yet phenomenum of this kind has been a persistent by-product of my own work in trigrammal fields and other assorted body of light practices. The problem, for me, and strictly in relation to the kinds of things I have tended to focus on, is the spontanaety factor itself. I have noted that, with a startling regularity, the most dramatic *events* have always come right out of the blue with no planning and no direct intention of any kind.

Basically...I am suspicious of this kind of behavior. The mind is full of tricks and people are constantly being pulled off-track by the advent of *miraculous* events of one kind or another so it has been my habit to observe these things but refuse to chase them in. Inasmuch as I already have a constant focus to attend to anyway, this has not been a problem and surprizingly this kind of phenomenum has become a fairly constant element in things for me...I just never quite know where or what or when the next *event* will occur!

But to say that I am suspicious does mean to imply skepticism so much as caution and prudence in general...as well as the need to carefully analyze what kind of focusing activity it is that can actually work with this kind of thing because it appears to have to be a learned technique and is not easily predicted from the more conventional ways we might focus our attentions to the accomplishment of goals. This seems to be a case where we have to deliberately learn to "not think" in very specific kinds of ways. Seemingly a contradiction in terms and yet in a general sort of way this seems to be the gist of it somehow.

So this will almost certainly require a concerted effort on the parts of at least a handful of experts in different aspects of mind & energy expertise to really hammer out with any kind of precision I think. I believe it is perfectly possible to do so...I just think this is a very classical sort of think-tank scenario requiring the special skills of rather non-conventional (ie, magickal) professionals.

m1thr0s

[Kain]

So I've seen a video of someone levitating like that, the jumping, and also setting something on fire. This was done by some monk. Are you saying this is all they can do right now or that flying is already achievable and practiced frequently?

[...]

But flying would be useful and get people excited and perhaps practicing this en masse, and we want flying....because it's cool. So can we assert that flying is a definate possibility?There are plenty of fake videos hovering around however I should note that, at least as far as my personal understanding of the phenomenon's particulars go, it's limits, if it has any, are quite far from self-levitation in terms of 'flying'. It is very clarifying to view it in terms of an equation. Depending on what we offer as input to the various variable factors, the intensity of the result will also change. So, what defines it better than any set excercise or manifestational effect is it's process of transmutating the input into output.

Now, there are a number of factors at work in this process...some years ago, I even tried making a sort of vaguely all-inclusive mathematical formula around them, thus defining the 'equation' of this process in an abstract form, although it was more complex than I alone could handle and it is quite hard to "measure" such factors in any sufficiently standard and repeatedly verifiable way in order to reffer to their "quantity" publicly and as a given. However, prominent factors are: (1) The amount of energy raised, (2) the summation of all forces applied to the object we aim to affect (gravitational or otherwise), and their collective direction in relation to the direction we want to influence movement, (3) the quality of the link with the object, (4) the amount of focus in concentration, (5) the quality of alignment the body's centers have, as this alignment translates to raw power as well as subtlety of control, both of these aspects of the result being highly dependant on this alignment. There are many other smaller factors at work, too...however, what I aim to point out is that there are no "limits" to such a process, as the better input you provide the better output it will automatically translate. And I think that, from the ease of manifestation of certain instances I have experienced, our biggest problem in utilizing this process is one of not addressing it properly. We do not need to develop the ability, but we need to learn how to address the already existant ability in terms it can understand and utilize. Simple attunements add up to substantial physical effects compared to practicing the ability without those attunements, which easily has one thinking that one has reached the "limit" of one's current abilities in this regard, which is hardly true.

So I think that, even from our current level of ability (never mind evolutionary potential), levitation in terms of flying is a definite possibility that we are in the most part simply choosing not to practice out of our very patterns of thought. The mindframe allowing for utilizing the reservoir we already possess and consciously providing it as input to this process is a very different one compared to our conventional thinking patterns, and this is the main obstacle we face. I think however that the ability in itself is already claimed to it's extreme by a number of people throughout the ages who have been approaching this in a correct enough way. It is ultimately only a small part of the overall state aimed to be attained really, constituting a necessary subset of it but only a small portion of the overall picture of the Mindframe as a Whole.

Due to the realization that the main obstacle is the meeting of the subtle yet potent prerequisites that govern these functions and finetune the 'equation' (and thus the process), a lot of the work I have been involved in throughout these years is one of pinpointing aspects of that mindframe and slowly trying to piece it together. I often reffer to them as mental 'hues'. They are also connected with a more analytical way of approaching the notion of "Pride of the deity", as that is portrayed in Vajrayana doctrine. It should not be forgotten however that we are throughout such instances attending mechanical prerequisites that allow for such a potential to be used, rather than simply entering a mindframe that defies logic and common sense and thus affects things in different ways. It is just that our patterns of thought are an equally important factor to be attended to with the other more readily measurable ones we may refer to.
the problem as I have observed it is largely one of sorting out the right kinds of experiments as well as the right order in which to approach things. I admit to not having attempted this much, yet phenomenum of this kind has been a persistent by-product of my own work in trigrammal fields and other assorted body of light practices. The problem, for me, and strictly in relation to the kinds of things I have tended to focus on, is the spontanaety factor itself. I have noted that, with a startling regularity, the most dramatic *events* have always come right out of the blue with no planning and no direct intention of any kind. Yes, this is certainly true from my own standpoint and experience as well. Usually, the most dramatic events I have ever witnessed in this field have come about from a factor I had not been paying direct attention to. This is ultimately related with the particulars of the mindframe required I think, as I described it earlier. Basically...I am suspicious of this kind of behavior. The mind is full of tricks and people are constantly being pulled off-track by the advent of *miraculous* events of one kind or another so it has been my habit to observe these things but refuse to chase them in. Inasmuch as I already have a constant focus to attend to anyway, this has not been a problem and surprizingly this kind of phenomenum has become a fairly constant element in things for me...I just never quite know where or what or when the next *event* will occur!I certainly see your point m1thr0s. You know, since I always viewed such events as the most profound pragmatic proof of the Mind's immensity of potential, and also of course accepting the fact that the process of knowing the Mind's nature is always full of tricks, I followed the opposite route and chased them in at every pass in order to ultimately manage to domesticate those wild and unruly manifestations that so fervently refused conscious attendance. Through hours of experimentation, the Mind seemed to all the more become accustomed and used to it's own inherent aspects of nature, and reduced it's tendency to shy away from it's own achievements. Like any domestication process, the relationship between ordinary consciousness and the processes pertaining to such events slowly grew more tight and even "chatty". The effect you previously described in an example about medicine and healing, and how when confronted with the immensity of our own doing the process would be reversed, slowly began to wane as well. The taboo subsided a little and the until recently spontaneous "miracle" process allowed itself to be analytically studied, up to a point. I even went through a very funny stage where upon realization, the effect would not ubruptly cease but in fact discreetly proceed to correct it's own effects in a desperate yet strangely self-playful attempt to avoid classification(I actually mean cases where the object, once I realized what I was doing, would slowly crawl back to it's original position like a small child caught in an off-limits area! ).

So yes, I think the spontanaety factor is a most amazing principle and is in the heart of all this. Until today, I'd say I've only seen a fraction of it that was not only "peripheral vision" but I always found this "direct invite" of the so-called 'miraculous', and this domestication process as a whole such a fascinating approach to cultivating self-knowledge.
This seems to be a case where we have to deliberately learn to "not think" in very specific kinds of ways. Seemingly a contradiction in terms and yet in a general sort of way this seems to be the gist of it somehow.Yes, pretty much, great phrasing. "Not going there" is the first and foremost approach, at least until the correct way of thinking becomes sufficiently pronounced to be analizable and definable enough to direct our approach more squarely into asserting a new methodology.

Kain

[m1thr0s]

I can definitely see your position Kain and am certainly not critical of that in any way. A lot of one's approach to things may depend on everything else one happens to have on their plate already. My own position has been defensive (to an extent) which has been the hallmark of much of my work anyway...psychic self-defense on a pretty grand scale. So we seem to have two opposite takes on the same essential phenomenum...one approach in which Buddha goes to the Mountain and the other in which the Mountain comes to him. In either case...in both examples, we still arrive at a continuance of the phenomenum itself and a gradual progression towards its systematic unveiling.

But how to up the ante I think is the logical next question in things. I do feel there are limits as to what people can acomplish in isolation on this somehow.

m1thr0s

[Kain]

I can definitely see your position Kain and am certainly not critical of that in any way. A lot of one's approach to things may depend on everything else one happens to have on their plate already. My own position has been defensive (to an extent) which has been the hallmark of much of my work anyway...psychic self-defense on a pretty grand scale. So we seem to have two opposite takes on the same essential phenomenum...one approach in which Buddha goes to the Mountain and the other in which the Mountain comes to him. In either case...in both examples, we still arrive at a continuance of the phenomenum itself and a gradual progression towards its systematic unveiling.Absolutely, m1thr0s, and I know you didn't. In fact, in pursuits such as these, it is ever so often approaches of such apparent opposite inclination that have the most complementary eventual understanding of the given phenomenon. Both approaches being equally needed, and both paths needing to be treaded for a complete mapping of the process to be ever fascilitated. Also, I think that you make a profound point about how one's approach to things is in a way dependant on what may be occuring to oneself at that time.
But how to up the ante I think is the logical next question in things. I do feel there are limits as to what people can acomplish in isolation on this somehow. I think that an isolated approach to a phenomenon of such vastness is certainly limited, at least as far as it's chosen route towards the understanding of that phenomenon goes. I'm not sure this inhibits understanding of it per se, but it certainly does not constitute the complete spectrum of approaches, and thus on presentation the chosen route can never be inclusive of the situation as a whole. I suppose that, ultimately, greater heights can indeed be achieved by collective activity on a given principle though.

Kain

[m1thr0s]

I suppose that, ultimately, greater heights can indeed be achieved by collective activity on a given principle though.I think so, although perhaps I am dreaming of something that won't really be very possible for awhile yet...hard to say I guess. In the meantime, individuals is what it's down to for now. At least here we can discuss a few things.

m1thr0s

[Kain]

I think so, although perhaps I am dreaming of something that won't really be very possible for awhile yet...hard to say I guess. In the meantime, individuals is what it's down to for now. At least here we can discuss a few things.Yeah, I suppose so. Still, I suppose it is an amazing leap compared to the geographical limitation this sort of work experienced even a few decades ago. We can "objectify" and publicly test our assertions in a lot more global a manner than we ever could and thus beat tribal subjectivism in a big way, making a very educated thrust towards attaining squarely foundated assumptions.

Kain

[Naomi]

Ok now that was a very complicated response. It sounds like you're trying to prove it from a scientific standpoint of someone desperately not trying to come off sounding like a crackpot. Yet I'm not questioning the possibility of it really, I just want to know how close we are to achieving this. Haha, but no the video was as you described, a monk in lotus position popping up a few inches off the ground for a split second. Very unimpressive to most, but I was intrigued, and this was more than 15 years ago. Ok so in other words, we just break the mindset of limitations and embrace limitlessness.

And most of all to perserverence and practice...what harm can a lot of yoga and meditation do?


Say, in regards to breaking human mindgrid, have you checked out the show, Heroes, at all? It's got lots of levitation and other fun things...

[Kain]

Yet I'm not questioning the possibility of it really, I just want to know how close we are to achieving this. Sorry, I mistook your previous response then. Well, in my opinion anyway, I think we're pretty much already there potential-wise. All we need is addopting a sufficiently structured and equally serious set of related practices, integrated in our way of life, and practiced for a sufficient amount of time. Of course, it's important to remember that none of us are ever in the exact same page in relation to our level of development (and thus we always work on individual cases, even though we can roughly reffer to the state of humanity as a whole) although even so, for the most part, I think that the only thing we need is pragmatically realize we're there.
Haha, but no the video was as you described, a monk in lotus position popping up a few inches off the ground for a split second. Very unimpressive to most, but I was intrigued, and this was more than 15 years ago. Yeah, that's the thing...hehe... :)
Ok so in other words, we just break the mindset of limitations and embrace limitlessness.

And most of all to perserverence and practice...what harm can a lot of yoga and meditation do?Pretty much, yes. It's important to attend to structure however, as we need a sufficiently sharp 'tool' of practices to cut ourselves from limited perception in a pragmatic way, otherwise we're simply voicing big concepts without really doing anything practical about attaining them. But yes, as long as we have a sufficiently sharp practice, and as long as we persevere in it's application and don't abandon the active striving while having gone only half-way, this is pretty much the ticket I think.
Say, in regards to breaking human mindgrid, have you checked out the show, Heroes, at all? It's got lots of levitation and other fun things...I haven't, although I think I have heard about it elsewhere, too. Apparently, it has a fair share of such phenomena portrayed in it's plot...thanks for the suggestion Naomi, I'll check it out...

Kain

[Naomi]

Hmm, yes, I seem to be misinterpreted quite frequently of late. Thanks for your detailed explanation anyways. x_x It's always appreciated, if not today, then tomorrow.


There's a lot we could do with a hippeis commune....

*deletes hilarious commentary for self preservation*

[Apopheros]

Have you ever heard about projecting a singularity for flying?
I wonder if levitation is only possible on some zones,
like leylines acting as steps?

[Kain]

Have you ever heard about projecting a singularity for flying?Hello APOPHEROS,

No, not really. What is this approach about?
I wonder if levitation is only possible on some zones,
like leylines acting as steps?I wouldn't think so. Perhaps leylines might help, but the whole essence of developping such techniques and abilities is that they are fully dependant upon one's own, personal energy potential, projecting from the subtle body itself. So yes, I suppose that it would be easier in places where leylines are concentrated although it can still be achieved regardless of the characteristics of subtle topography etc...it's a matter of excercise in the end...

Kain

[Apopheros]

I've came across this on another forum. Some said it was an hoax but
juge for yourself

Project 444

New Project: Modulated Dimensional Realities...

I talked to an individual who worked with a project, sponsored by the NAVY, funded by the NSA. It is a spin off of the 'silent sub' project, discovered by accident during propulsion research. Here are some of the details that he spoke of.

Basically, its an interdimensional travel project utilizing a frequency of sound waves that are modulated to collide with light waves to create a stable force field which then is forced to implode upon itself with the injection of a manufactured dark matter singularity. Utilizing mathamatical calculations one is able to modulate the velocity of the collapse to focus the energy disposition to transport the item(s) to the coordinates that coincide with that velocity. To return the individual(s) or objects, they have created a 'boomerang' device. The device contains a controled singularity, programmed with the calculations to return oneself to a dimensional reality that is within 3% similarity of the origin. Currently it is impossible to return to the exact reality, as the quantum computers that currently crunch out the numbers are limited by the number of known modulated realities. The computers themselves are amazing, as they somehow are able to work with copies of themselves in parallel realities to crunch out UNREAL amounts of calculations, upwards of 1,000x more then physically feasible given its current design.

The original purpose of the project was to accelerate time in a 'bubble' so to speak, so that they could experiment and test without the wait times. This project has since been transferred to NASA in a much more conservative 'research' form. Stumbling upon the interdimensional properties of such a device was quite by accident. Applications of this technology have been suggested in creating "warp" engines or even a form of 'teleporter' or 'travel' device. All-in-All, they still aren't completely sure what they have. And the travel properties have not been completely verified, as the only individual that has been successfully retrieved reported that his surroundings turned to an intense black and white fractel and when it was over he was back in the test room without a true recollection of where he had been for several hours. Missing Time so to speak.

Successful retrieval of objects or individuals was last rated at 37%. Human testing has ceased until they are able to retrieve at a 97% or greater probability.



what da ya think?:yes:

[Kain]

Well, theoretically at least, it doesn't seem too extreme an asertion. I'm not at all aware of the level of technology currently going on in such circles though, so I would hardly be a fitting judge to reply with certainty in any of this. The format would seem kind of fishy though, as even if such experiments were conducted, details about them wouldn't be found nor kept in a public forum so easily etc...

However I think that in theory, it could pretty much stand as long as the technological background was present. Mathematically, it's all there really. It's important to remember that even so-called 'subtle' matter, is in fact, matter, and this means that all our psychic projections and energy work constructs etc are ultimately, technological feats in a sense.

Psychokinetics as a phenomenon, however, usually tends to aim within one's present time-frame, often as a rule. With sufficient control however, I would assume it could function upon different time-frames as well.

Kain

[Zifiriskenoxa]

maybe there's a part of the brain that needs unlocking to be able to practice these kind of things
the regular kind of sobs that we are usually born into prevents us from working within those abilities by trying to limit us

[Apopheros]

Maybe if we discovered the logo for gravity and make something out of it?
For now, it sounds like tremendous amount of energy are required with the technology of wave interference and traveling.
The way I understand it, it's like going into hyperspace, anchored on Earth's gravity field.

the regular kind of sobs that we are usually born into prevents us from working within those abilities by trying to limit us

I think you are right, but if those abilities were available to us, we wouldn't be human anymore. We'd be silicon maybe? Infertile?

It got me pondering...what if we build a device that extended our DNA by ghost effect into crystals magnetically aligned (spins) to alter the laws of gravity?
Just thinking:tnerd: