Magickal Oath

[Kuroyagi]

If this is not too personal I would like to ask everyone if they have ever taken a magical oath (for themselves or "with" a group) and whether they have ever regretted it or drawn strenght from it, or: have consciously or not acted against it.

I myself have read about this in Kraig's books on magick where it is written that this- if taken seriously- can be very empowering. I havent taken an oath then cause I was very much into Chaos magic and relativism at that time, and later I simply had forgotten it (or never thought about it.). And tbh I think the concept of an oath, looking at the word alone I mean, sounds a bit antiquated.

p.s. This post was inspired by the poster Vartavarh: http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=1264&page=2

[Okazaki Castle]

Yeah, loads, and sealed in my own blood over very specific timegates.

No regrets, it's the easiest way to get your soul working for you in this world, ie fetching you things and doing physical form's work for you.

(the list of the oaths I've got blood-sealed can be downloaded from the zhedhi site, if you're inetrested. It's, like, 400 pages long or smtg. *shrugs* I'm greedy...)

all the best,
Seb / Oaz.

[Kuroyagi]

lol super answer...and have you broken a couple too?

edit: well, since I have never taken one and am not too familiar with the concept of magical oaths myself (only know about fealty), I thought to politely ask. :lol: (youre damn funny.)

[Radiant Star]

Taking an oath can put a stop on something, so I am thinking that it might depend on which personality type you were if you took one, some people like things left open-ended and that is why I would not consider taking an oath without much consideration. I am under some constrictions with who I know and a few things I have done, everyone is by some point in their lives.

The taking of an oath does put one in a different place in their mind though and sets a certain serious tone on events and in some ways has a supportive feel if the trust is there.

[m1thr0s]

I don't play the all-and-everything oaths package personally. It just strikes me as shallow and grossly misinformed. Perhaps this is only in my own case, so whatever. I have got much better mileage from only taking very rare and focused kinds of oaths...I was in OTO for awhile so I went through that whole process with them...the oaths I took have turned into lifelong endeavors and I think it all served to draw in a heightened sense of urgency around those targeted objectives. In any case...you get back proportional to what you put in so the oath itself is just a pile of words...blood or no blood is just your choice of dramatic special effects...doesn't mean shit to me personally so I don't bother with any of that. Blood makes a pretty good ink though, so there's that angle if it's worth something...

I have also formally refused to take certain oaths with similarly powerful effects. Again with OTO I thought long and hard about the ever-so-popular 3rd degree and ultimately decided it was just a tad too hyper-popular for my own personal agenda. As a matter of fact, it would have run contrary to my earlier oaths which were to myself in lieu of the Book of the Law on its own merits and not as the official "bible" of anything or anybody... Refusing to take the 3rd on principle actually had a remarkable impact on my whole magickal process. It seems to have drawn a line in the sand that I have not once regretted and have even encouraged others to consider as a serious sort of option...though people generally don't seem to get it.

What the hell...worked for me...I took my lead from Chapter 23 in the Book of Lies (http://abrahadabra.com/pdf/liber333.pdf) anyway so I knew exactly what I was doing and why.

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

enjoyable post m1thr0s, and one that speaks to some decisions I must make as well (i am below the 3rd).

i have take order oaths (oTo) and personal magickal oaths.

i have broken a personal oath, and i did go through a wasteland period as a result. i vowed, magickally, do to something, called upon my will in the most personal way, and then failed. the consequences were rough, but taught me a lesson as well.

[Neshamah]

I have taken a couple of Order Oaths (twice through the Golden Dawn :no: ). I haven't broken them because I don't talk about their material (since my personal development has made their teachings unsound IMHO; so it isn't a loss).

I broke a marriage vow in my first marriage. I believe that any time you break an oath (or vow) to yourself you are in for some serious consequences. It took me over 5 years to work through the consequences of that one. . . :(

Love, Light, and Peace,

Neshamah

[m1thr0s]

enjoyable post m1thr0s, and one that speaks to some decisions I must make as well (i am below the 3rd).at that time I had already been heavily steeped in Abrahadabra, which seemed perfectly obvious to me since I had afterall taken these oaths and all :o_O: ...but upon looking around to see what my peers were doing they were basically spinning around on their thumbs from my perspective. Felt kind of diseased to me somehow...kinda gave me the creeps actually. A magickal order somehow uniquely uncommitted to Abrahadabra! How incredibly useless...if not potentially hazardous to your health! But there it is you know? It's really all about your priorities and finding ways of getting behind those with a certain "energized enthusiasm"...

m1thr0s

[Radiant Star]

Does it make a difference whether you just take the oath and say the words or if you have put your heart and soul into it. I cannot imagine consequences for going along with a group effort as part of a ritual or something.

[m1thr0s]

???...that sounds like two different trains of thought to me. I think it all comes back to "focused intent" again. Groups can facilitate that or obstruct it, depending on a range of conditions...also depending on the mindset of the person at the center of it all...for some the group dynamic is a pivotal factor...for me it's an incidental, but that's just sort of my nature I think.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Yes I have taken quite a few oaths....never regretted it. I'm fucking lazy and would rather have oaths tow me along...then just kill random things on the way....fun!

But these are all really old ones, in this lifetime only took one "oath" I joined the Zhedhi order...though that was tied to one of the older oaths. Some of them include the Buddhist oath and the Ninja oath, others I remember from planets. Some are just debts of giri...

Interesting question Kuroyagi and very cool discussion, I am surprised at all of the responses and perspectives.

There was one point where I tried to break an oath last year but I never told you what happened there....heh, it was painful.

:::gives Aiki-Mei the finger:::

[Okazaki Castle]

lol super answer...and have you broken a couple too?

edit: well, since I have never taken one and am not too familiar with the concept of magical oaths myself (only know about fealty), I thought to politely ask. :lol: (youre damn funny.)

No, you can't break blood-sealed oaths, it's not allowed and just doesn't work. You are forever bound by them until you fulfill them!! That's why it's funny to use that tool inappropriately, eg I hereby swear I shall be really rich and rule the world. Then, ordinarily, you'd have to keep incarnating till you did that. But if you add paradoxes and tensions to the process, eg swear physical immortality in this lifetime, then you create problems for this system. At least, that's how I think it works, just did what came to me and went with the explanations given to me without too much in-depth research on the topic it must be said...

'sides, it's like a character trait with me: I do what I say I will do and keep my Word, so fulfill my oaths too :)

all the best,
Seb / Oaz.

[Okazaki Castle]

But these are all really old ones, in this lifetime only took one "oath" I joined the Zhedhi order...


Didn't know that, what prompted you to do that if I may ask? Especially at the time you choose to do it, which was a bit of downswing period for me if I remember rightly (normally people only come on board when things are shiny and attractive lots).


though that was tied to one of the older oaths. Some of them include the Buddhist oath and the Ninja oath, others I remember from planets. Some are just debts of giri...


Interesting. Whatare the Ninja and Buddhist oaths if I may ask? I didn't know there was a specific one in each case.


There was one point where I tried to break an oath last year but I never told you what happened there....heh, it was painful.

:::gives Aiki-Mei the finger:::

Yeah, could we have the story there? That might be something fun to try actually, breaking oaths to see what happens. Would have to find one I didn't want or smtg...

all da best,
Seb.

[fr.novumorganum]

On a related note, I also find that opening each operation with a statement of will, a mini oath for that particular working, whre I state the purpose of the operation, and that it is my will to do so, to greatly enhance the overall process and result.

[Kuroyagi]

Thanks everyone for your very good answers that cover a wide spectrum!

As a matter of fact, it would have run contrary to my earlier oaths which were to myself in lieu of the Book of the Law on its own merits and not as the official "bible" of anything or anybody... Refusing to take the 3rd on principle actually had a remarkable impact on my whole magickal process. It seems to have drawn a line in the sand that I have not once regretted and have even encouraged others to consider as a serious sort of option...though people generally don't seem to get it.

This made me think that actually I have taken and refused oaths to myself, but hadnt till now considered them as such because it was less formal or expressive than one would think of the term oath. Those were all things about the general direction I wanted to take in life. There are only rare and very specific moments in that I have asked myself these questions (as there have been only 4 times I asked something of the universe/god as cheesy as it sounds- and never was it denied...maybe thelemites call this true will etc.) At one time I e.g. "asked": do I want to be an expert (in a certain academic field): and my answer was NO. At two other times I have asked myself, and my answer was both YES. It was some sort of basic dedication to my way of life and "work"/art.

...doesn't mean shit to me personally so I don't bother with any of that. Blood makes a pretty good ink though, so there's that angle if it's worth something...
:laugh: that was a typo yes, m1thr0s? (or was it a freudian slip of tongue?)

Naomi, Okazaki-jo: ahh (naruhodo) now I see, I was primarily talking about present life experiences, but all else is also good. Whats the ninja oath btw? something like (Benkei): "I'll get to that bastard even if hes on the other side of the ocean - and even though I cant swim. I can still walk on the ocean's bed!"

Does it make a difference whether you just take the oath and say the words or if you have put your heart and soul into it. I cannot imagine consequences for going along with a group effort as part of a ritual or something.Very inspiring Ricci. I think its irrelevant to an oath if it has more props- like blood or scrolls- or none. The inner conviction is all that should count. Another layer is probably ones psychic and mental toughness (m1thr0s seems to be rather thick-skinned there, if I follow his tale) or what is vulgo called "bad conscious" t'wards ones peers/group- this could hurt one I guess...

fr novum: what you write again makes me wonder about the varied uses of the word will and its complexity. I mean: true will (which I somehow get) vs egoic desire and especially what you write: "called upon my will in the most personal way, and then failed". this confuses me...(I have to say that my magick is very informal). I never understood this will-thing a 100% tbh (but this is a similar problem as Satanism to me I guess; when it comes down to it the wisest thing to say is probably that its a question of taste and that there are various names for it in different cultures). I must say that I never was much into ritual magic, yet see sense in dedication and practice and meditation and self-discipline (and all that crap jk ;))...

Fr. Neshamah: very interesting stuff about those oaths of secrecy, and a very very shrewd way to put it. hehe.:)

[Kuroyagi]

No, you can't break blood-sealed oaths, it's not allowed and just doesn't work. You are forever bound by them until you fulfill them!! That's why it's funny to use that tool inappropriately, eg I hereby swear I shall be really rich and rule the world. Then, ordinarily, you'd have to keep incarnating till you did that. But if you add paradoxes and tensions to the process, eg swear physical immortality in this lifetime, then you create problems for this system. At least, that's how I think it works, just did what came to me and went with the explanations given to me without too much in-depth research on the topic it must be said...

'sides, it's like a character trait with me: I do what I say I will do and keep my Word, so fulfill my oaths too :)

all the best,
Seb / Oaz.I intuitively would also have said that such a usage of an oath is inappropriate and would never have even thought of putting such stuff into consideration for it but cant explain why. Is it because of the egotistic content...is it because all paths and half way sane spiritual teachers have told us that this is not good. Or is it as you would certainly tell me: That the crappy system doesnt allow for it, meaning "nature" is against it? As I said I for myself wouldnt even have thgouht about it but Im curious: why do you think its inappropriate?

If you always do what you say then good luck: its terribly restricting!

edit. FR. Novum: about the question of the will, I just saw that theres a thread about True Will here already, will look into it! then.

[fr.novumorganum]

K:

Well, I won't go into the most personal details of that working, but what I meant was that I had a statement of intent, a result/life effect strongly visualized, and in a ritual I fully evoked my true will and swore an oath upon my will to reach that intent. This was more than just a desire for something to happen, but an oath upon my will, using my will as the charging force, to complete this effect.

I did not complete the task I had set myself; in effect going back against my will, working against my truest self. As a result, I found myself in a listless state, a wasteland of time, result, desire, a good chunk of time just flushed down the toilet. It was as if the will to do anything had fled me as a result. It was painful, in personal and a spiritual sense.

To be honest, this general listlessness really didn't dissipate until I began working m1thr0s' 'system' (unintended endorsement here), but that is another tale.

I learned alot about self-sabotage from this, and of the importance of not giving up. I learned how easy it is to get trapped by abstractions over concrete things, especially the illusory abstraction of the dualism of the self. Most importantly I experienced the meaning of 'Perseverance furthers'

II:63 Thou art exhaust in the voluptuous fullness of inspiration; the expiration is sweeter than death, more rapid and laughterful than a caress of Hell's own worm

III: 16 Deem not to eagerly to catch the promises; fear not to undergo the curses. Ye, even ye, know not this meaning all

[Kuroyagi]

Yes, Ive also seen the "perseverance furthers" to be relevant in connection to my life. In concreto, I saw this to be true if you take certain things you enjoy (like "reading" alone lets say) and that arent considered as a normal "job". But if you follow them through and if you make them "your life" then they can bring you, can manifest you, all other things, too, if you are dedicated to them. (that they arent "fun" everyday and that you still need a schedule and some sort of discipline goes w/o saying.)

But I also experience the other (higher?) level: that there are things that I want (e.g. I want to have more money) but that I know I wont get by "magick" alone without doing or sacrificing something for them...meaning: I want them but at a deeper level I can see that I dont "will" then truely as youd probably say. (or not?)

Now my question would be:
Well, I won't go into the most personal details of that working, but what I meant was that I had a statement of intent, a result/life effect strongly visualized, and in a ritual I fully evoked my true will and swore an oath upon my will to reach that intent. This was more than just a desire for something to happen, but an oath upon my will, using my will as the charging force, to complete this effect.
Does the content of your "wish" matter if you swear by your true will as you described? and could it also be a simple desire that you make sublime by ritual? or is that a taboo etc? respectively something you dont even consider doing cause it would fail anyway?

[Kuroyagi]

ah didnt see the quotes: the first doesnt say too much to me in my half drunken state (funny huh, but I mean it. I have an aphorism that goes:
Nature shows itself in ecstasy and it shows itself as ecstasy more than it can be cognized by “sciences”.)

the second is ye olde: no lust for result? is it?, its propagating a certain indifference torwards ones desires and the world if called for. or if I formualted it in an easier way: it means: learn to0 expertly shift your focus, from one moment to the next. (maybe in ritual its banishing etc, also).

[Ci Celli Ddu]

If this is not too personal I would like to ask everyone if they have ever taken a magical oath (for themselves or "with" a group) and whether they have ever regretted it or drawn strenght from it, or: have consciously or not acted against it.


Yeah but the first thing I usually do is break it. Must be the antinomian in me. In fact swearing a magical oath is pretty much a dead cert guarantee that I'll do the opposite.

[m1thr0s]

Yeah but the first thing I usually do is break it. Must be the antinomian in me. In fact swearing a magical oath is pretty much a dead cert guarantee that I'll do the opposite.I can definitely relate to that but I would be willing to bet a pile of change you're not being 100% candid. The thing is it may not always take the officious form of an o-a-t-h all the time and still be one. I am aware of having taken a certain oath with respect to making this site work for instance. I honestly have no idea if I can pull that off or not to be honest cuz I sure as hell can't do it all by myself anyway. But I find myself renewing a certain unspoken pledge every single damn day...sometimes several times a day even, depending on whatever flack I am up against I guess. People who have gained anything in terms of magick have done the same thing I think. Nobody is getting paid enough to put up with all the bullshit otherwise...it's all a labor of...well...love I guess...

m1thr0s

[Kain]

But I find myself renewing a certain unspoken pledge every single damn day...sometimes several times a day even, depending on whatever flack I am up against I guess. People who have gained anything in terms of magick have done the same thing I think. Nobody is getting paid enough to put up with all the bullshit otherwise...it's all a labor of...well...love I guess...Yeah, I do the same thing myself, really. Discipline and unwavering mental action is an important factor to avoid much unnecessary toil and pointless effort. In cases of particularly difficult (mentally) enviromental conditions, sometimes I also back this up with a symbolic written sequence of words or small sentence, slipped in my pocket as an aditional 'talismatic' focus of sorts, helping my mind speedily return to the pledge and approach at hand and not linger with pointless mental meanderings etc. I've used this quite often and it has helped me "keep it real" and pragmatically functional pretty much every step of the way I could afford it, allowing the mind to crystalize/solidify the correct concepts from early on, as the mind always essentially needs to work organizationally within a certain given 'grid' or 'rail' of some sort. If it is provided with the wrong abstract building blocks, the rest of the process is also virally affected (and infected), this is why alignment of one's approach in an abstract form needs to be often attended to, pretty much what the mental/unspoken pledge accomplishes.

Kain

[Naomi]

[quote=Sebastian;17535]Didn't know that, what prompted you to do that if I may ask? Especially at the time you choose to do it, which was a bit of downswing period for me if I remember rightly (normally people only come on board when things are shiny and attractive lots).

What prompted me? Guns are cool. :laugh: I don't know, I was just feeling really pissy at the time and I was terribly irritated with everyone - You, Sebastian, for making what I felt at the time was a rediculous motion which I felt was a step backwards for technology. Though now I've come to this happy compromise of the ideal shangri-la where instead of killing people at all, we just have a big party you know, and carry colorful guns that shoot water or something, as a fashion accessory. Yes, I have strange going-ons in my head.


Interesting. Whatare the Ninja and Buddhist oaths if I may ask? I didn't know there was a specific one in each case.Well I actually am not sure about the specifics on the "ninja" one, only that I seem to keep running into the same people lifetime after lifetime and owe them a great sense of loyalty and would fight and die for them. It's probably tied to other bigger things and not that meaningful without going into detail. It's just sort of a way of enduring, and the way of the heart under blade...:cool: It's all very mystical. I will have to pull up the memories sometime of my darker years.

Buddhist oath is really quite simple, it has to do with the boddhisattva path. But it goes back before Buddhism - before this planet we live on itself. It is based on compassion. You become responsible for a someone, and you vow to take care of it until it is ready to take care of itself. It is a sacrifice because it requires attachment and with attachment comes loss and suffering. Or you could just say it is "The vow to free our mothers from the endless cycle of rebirth" related somewhat mystically to the goddess Li.



Yeah, could we have the story there? That might be something fun to try actually, breaking oaths to see what happens. Would have to find one I didn't want or smtg...

all da best,
Seb.No you can't have the story and it wasn't fun. rofl....maybe I'll tell you in person someday. It's totally embarassing and was humilating! You'll laugh though....:cool: I probably deserved it.

I did make three pictograph blood contracts when I was 15, one of a scorpion, another of a lizard and the last of a snake....my nose had been bleeding for some reason and I made them in a trance in my room. I brought them to art class one day to show my art teacher, but there was a substitute that day, and she said "Is this blood? I can feel the power emanating from them." I thought to myself "Wow this lady is really weird how did she know that?" I never saw her again after that hour!

I recalled that story recently, because of the teeth I had taken out (lotsa blood) :D

All the best,

Naomi

Kuroyagi:
Naomi, Okazaki-jo: ahh (naruhodo) now I see, I was primarily talking about present life experiences, but all else is also good. Whats the ninja oath btw? something like (Benkei): "I'll get to that bastard even if hes on the other side of the ocean - and even though I cant swim. I can still walk on the ocean's bed!"LOL I love that K

[Balatro]

Inspired by Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai, I have been swearing vows every morning for the past week. They aren't break-em-and-die, binding blood-oaths; they are reminders to myself of the path I've chosen. Here's what the Hagakure says:

Like a tea kettle, it is easy for one's enthusiasm to cool. However, there is a way to keep this from happening. My own vows are the following:
* Never to be outdone in the Way of the Samurai.
* To be of good use to the master.
* To be filial to my parents.
* To manifest great compassion, and to act for the sake of Man.
If one dedicates these four vows to the gods and Buddhas every morning, he will have the strength of two men and will never slip backward. One must edge forward like the inchworrn, bit by bit. The gods and Buddhas, too, first started with a vow.

My vows are to cultivate power, love and wisdom, to rejoice, to live in knowledge of emptiness and 2 specific vows to projects I'm working on.
I recite my vows while holding difficult physical positions that tense my muscles while also stretching them (back bridges and things). This is good for flexibility and muscular endurance and also produces loads of human growth hormone. (It's the whole idea behind hatha yoga.) But here's the really clever bit: holding these positions when your body's screaming at you to stop is the perfect way of forcing your willpower into action. It focuses the attention onto the Will like nothing else. So by repeating my vows while exercising my Will, I make a mental association between the application of Will and the content of the vows. I also invest psychological effort into the vows, making them more important to me. Can you dig it?
I do this with a chain around my shoulders. The chain symbolizes the power of self-control and governance of wayward desires (Geburah in the Qabalah). It also acts as a weight to make the static holds more difficult.

I've been doing this for a week so far and the results are extraordinary, beyond anything I could have expected. It's exactly like the Hagakure said: I have the strength of two men and am improving constantly. I'm happier, more energetic, more alert, more interesting and interested. Every day I've been noticing new results.

[Anibis]

I have worked with various vows and commitments on an off for years. In my practice I have found that the most effective of these operations are measurable, simple, and have a time limit. For example, "From today, date x, until date y, I will wear a different shirt each day". Or something like that... there is no ambiguity about whether or not you are achieving anything: you either do it or not. It is not morally/emotionally charged, nor is it that I would be unable to do on a given day, and it is not something I imagine having to do for the rest of my life, although, I can renew the commitment when the date come up. Success and failure are clear. I find that the more lofty goals grow out of success in the smaller ones. For example. 6 small commitments each day, have the power to grant you a sort of confidence that extends to other, less tangible things... Contrary to alot of my earlier interpretations of Crowley and the Thelemic lack of limits, I find that judicious, and measurable limits, kept under control via judgement, grant a real, living power... Of course all such choices are under Will, and I suppose that is the point. The measurable is a better path to the intangible than the intangible is to the measurable, in my experience.

I think also that martial arts practice really helps bring this out...

From Malkuth grow all the higher spheres. From deeds come all the loftier emotions...

-Anibis