Lord's Prayer

[deviadah]

Faith Javane and Dusty Bunker show in their book Numerology and The Divine Triangle that seven is the principal number in both the Old and New Testaments of the Bible (and we all know the significance of 7 in most occult/esoteric orders/lore etc). Apart from such obvious examples as the fact that the Lord rested on the seventh day and the seven angels with seven trumpets in Revelations, they put forth the seven-fold path of the Lord’s Prayer as a union of the triad, or trinity, and the quaternary. The Lord’s Prayer can be found in Matthew 6:9-13:

1(V). Our Father which art in heaven,
2 (I). Hallowed be Thy Name.
3 (T). Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.
4 (R). Give us this day our daily bread.
5 (I). And forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.
6 (O). And lead us not into temptation,
7 (L). but deliver us from evil:


My opinion is that the Bible is a deeply alchemical text and if the above is deciphered then the father, in this prayer, can be seen instead as the root i.e. our basic material self. The hallowed name is the sacred source of our feelings. The will which shall be done in earth as in heaven, above as below, is the vital energy that flow through us. The daily bread is the deeper emotions that we feed upon. The debt, the original sin, which we keep needs to be forgiven and overcome and we need to let our soul surface instead of becoming trapped by material temptation. This will deliver us from unimportant material evils and result in bliss and a heightened state of being as explained in the final statement, that symbolize the return to the heavenly state, nirvana or more appropriate a oneness with everything.

8. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

And in the figure 8 we see the serpent, or Ouroboros, as a symbol of infinity and paradise regained. It is, spiritually, the goal of the initiate, having gone through the seven stages. Make sense?

[MythMath]

Hell yes... :yes:

[m1thr0s]

It would be interesting to know who actually created this prayer. About a couple of years ago there was a big row about it in the press since the Church formally acknowledged that it was not authored by Christ...but I never did hear who was supposed to have composed it...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

Deebaconspeare...?

[m1thr0s]

hmmm...maybe...though we still have Mathew to sort out and I think the original is written in Greek...

But I gave up comic books so long ago...I'd have to dig deep in the back of my closet...

m1thr0s

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

Wow! If this doesn't soud like alchemy I don't know what does. I'd be interested in more of your thoughts on the ancient writings (the bible, koran, etc) and their alchemical implications. Very interesting stuff!

[deviadah]

Well I have in recent years discovered the Bible. The important thing is to read it correctly. A few weeks ago I wrote my own version of the beginning in alchemical language so to speak.

The First Book of Hermes, called Genes

{1:1} In the beginning there was chaos. {1:2} And the Unfathomable Force moved through the chaos in the shape of a dragon. {1:3} Its tail whipped up embers that created a fire. {1:4} And the fire revealed the darkness, eternally burning. {1:5} And all that was around became Below. {1:6} And all that was within became Above. {1:7} And the darkness became a temple. {1:8} And aeons passed and the temple became a prison without locks. {1:9} And therefore there are no key. {1:10} And therefore anyone can enter yet no one will. {1:11} Because Will was put into the hands of men. {1:12} And the False God ruled mankind. {1:13} And they forgot that without fire there could be no darkness. {1:14} And therefore the darkness is bound to the fire. {1:15} And the fire is bound to the darkness. {1:16} But if you reside in the dark you see the fire from afar. {1:17} And if you reside in the fire you see the darkness all around. {1:18} And still the Force moves through both realms. {1:20} And moves upward. {1:21} And it moves downwards. {1:22} And in the inner sanctum of the temple lies the throne on which it rests. {1:23} And you call it God, but it calls itself nothing and everything. {1:24} It is imagination. {1:25} And with it you are a part of Everything. {1:26} And Everything is a part of you. {1:27} Without it you are an automaton, and nothing that is great will ever touch you!

Roy Norvill HERMES UNVEILED is a book that talks a little about the hermetic subtext of the Bible. I recommend it.

There are some obvious examples also in the Bible like Jacobs Ladder for instance (or like in 32:30 where it speaks of Peniel or Pineal Gland, the Stone).
In Psalms 133:1-3 of the Old Testament (KJV), for instance, we find these words:

Behold, how good and how pleasant for brethren to dwell together in unity! [It is] like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, [even] Aaron’s beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments; As the dew of Hermon, [and as the dew] that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, [even] life for evermore.
In this psalm the hermetic symbolism stands out clearly and it speaks of the wonderful unity of mankind and how to achieve this with the application of the alchemical process. The beard symbolise the mental process contrary to the shaven face of completion. The dew is the energy released from deep meditation, also known as the blood (dew/sweat) of the moon.
The Rosicrucians also figured under the name [I]The Brothers of the Boiled Dew and The Philosopher’s Stone is referred to, at times, as The Celestial Dew. The flow of this dew from the head downwards echoes the alchemical maxim as above so below together with the spiritual currents, or pranas, of Hinduism (also Yoga and in the New Age movement) that flow from the root of the spine to the pineal gland, or crown, in the head often depicted as serpents ascending and descending.
The dew is mentioned more than once in the Bible, for instance in Deuteronomy [33:13] (KJV) where it says: ”And of Joseph he said, Blessed of the LORD his land, for the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep that coucheth beneath…” In the Zohar we find it explained that this [B]“dew is the manna on which the souls of the just nourish themselves. The chosen hunger for it and collect it with full hands in the fields of heaven.”

Al Ghazzali writes some interesting stuff in The Alchemy of Happiness (can be found at Sacred Texts), and he ties a lot of alchemy in with the Quaran.

Well that is what I can muster up quickly now... :cool:

[Darin Hamel]

That reminds me of the 7 names mentioned in the Apostles Creed.

God, the Father Almighty
Jesus Christ
Holy Spirit
Virgin Mary
Pontius Pilot
Holy Roman Catholic Church
Communion of Saints

[Neshamah]

The Jews attribute this prayer to a Rabbi named Gamaliel who was one of Paul's teachers before his "conversion." It isn't an exact copy, but it's very close.

All this proves is that the prayer was popular during the time of Jesus of Nazareth. We still don't know who the original author was.

Love and Light for a Peace Profound,

Neshamah

[baenheh]

I think that the prayer goes back to the Egyptians and even before them.
Bread = mana= spirit

The Egyptian example is 'Amon who art in heaven'
the word 'art' in Egypt means 'milk' (milky way?) its heiroglyph is a milk pot with a serpent on it a uraeus. That word sounds like u-ray-us!

The Egyptian Heiroglyph for the God Amon is a serpent in the oval of the fillaments (rays)
In esoteric terms the holy spirit is a tone. to atone means to reconcile energies.
In Egypt anointing was depicted as a baptism in the living waters, Keys or tones of life. The vibrations and rays from the etheric central healing sun cleanses and purifies.
And I thought about the actual word 'pray' p-ray or pure ray.
What about the word 'GOD' Governing Order Dimensions?

I like to play around with words because there is always something more.

Moses was trained in all the wisdom of the Egyptians with their secrets of light and manna sciences. The prayer posture of the upraised arms at the sun was called 'fire blooming' ploughing away impurities as the healing comes drawn from another dimension. Its no coincidence that Jesus and Osiris / Aton ( a tone) were referred to as 'gardeners'

The mighty man Atlas depicted holding the world globe , lifts the force of life of which the world is made of upon his shoulders, lifting the mana, channelling the etheric radiance which comes from the sun behind the sun at the galactic core.

Osiris's companion mediatrix Isis-Hathor was provider of the 'bread of life'
the manna, hence the title of 'Lady of the mill'.
Her son Horus- Harash/Haresh in Arabic means ploughshare.

In Sumeria the plow of the Lord 'Baal Marduk' was called the 'Amurru' (hoe).
It is represented as a long pillar standing on a dragons back.
In Egypt the Djed pillar is the spine of Osiris.

The meal of fishes, Jesus participated in with his disciples, referrs to the secret knowledge of alchemy transformation.
His meal was made of grain grown in soil laced with the spiritual essence of leviathon. The exotic matter of which wormholes are composed. This meal was 'milled' within the body of Jesus. When raised within the body, the leviathon or love-tone creates a song 'songraal' in the blood that tunes and balances the initiate with the keys of the galactic centre.
The ancients believed the blood blossoms and one can learn to travel in wormhole via ursa major "the plough"
The word ARK is a-rk (a rock) The mirror image of rk is kr (kore).

The Egyptian symbol of Neter is the oval or mouth which is also the same shape as the path of a vibrating string.
According to Sumerian myths a GODMAN came through a wormhole to earth and its possible today that a new kind of human will develop themselves to travel through wormholes by integrating the wormhole substance into their energies.
In place of the ancient wormhole and light transformation sciences, with the true manna that transforms the body, a crummy wafer and cheap red wine is substituted for the true manna in all communion ceremonies at church.

Enlils priests stated - ' Must they purchance be the equals of ourselves, their makers, who can see far, know all, and see all, must they all be Gods?'

Its the same today , the journey towards attunement, transformation and the stone - (s-tone maybe superhuman tone? ) is made more and more difficult for one to attain. And its not just in this dimension with toxic food and energies its also the psychic and astral distortions that we have to raise above vibrationally as well.

All through certain writings there are many interesting corellations, but we must look beyond the obvious to pick these things up.

[Neshamah]

I'm certainly not one to rain on other's parades, but do you have any source material that suggests that the Sumerians knew about 'black-holes'? I would be VERY interested in reading that material.

Also, though I too believe that Moses was trained as a priest in ancient Egypt, I know of no proof to back up that belief. In fact, almost all of the records from that time in Egyptian history (all references to Ankenaten were obliterated from the walls and statuary of Egypt, since he was declared a heretic by the Pharoah that followed him --- this also includes all the priests of Amon and their rites and theology). I would, once again, be VERY interested if you knew of newly-found records of the time of Ankenaten and Moses.

Thank you for humoring me. :yes:

Love and Light for a Peace Profound,

Neshamah

[Naomi]

I'm certainly not one to rain on other's parades, but do you have any source material that suggests that the Sumerians knew about 'black-holes'? I would be VERY interested in reading that material.

Also, though I too believe that Moses was trained as a priest in ancient Egypt, I know of no proof to back up that belief. In fact, almost all of the records from that time in Egyptian history (all references to Ankenaten were obliterated from the walls and statuary of Egypt, since he was declared a heretic by the Pharoah that followed him --- this also includes all the priests of Amon and their rites and theology). I would, once again, be VERY interested if you knew of newly-found records of the time of Ankenaten and Moses.

Thank you for humoring me. :yes:

Love and Light for a Peace Profound,

Neshamah

I happened upon this link tonight in my search for snake pictures:

http://williamhenry.net/SGbeardedGods.htm

"Why are the bearded savior gods of every world religion portrayed as serpents? My research reveals its because they are either revealers of the knowledge of the (star) gates or wormholes leading to the stars, or because they themselves are the actual wormhole. Join me in a survey of artwork displaying a remarkably consistent concept: the gods delivered the knowledge of wormholes, or are the wormholes themselves."

[baenheh]

Great link Naomi thanks, :)

Neshamah, thanks for your input, There is no tangible evidence yet about the science of wormholes.
But the ancients sure did know a lot about astronomy, measurement and alchemy.

Ancient astronomical cycles derived from the Nineveh constant of 2268 million days. Assyrian King Assurbanipal had a library of thousands of clay tablets, some with huge numbers only on them. One number stood out to historians and that was 195,955,200,000.
The Sumerians (who were invaded by the Assyrians) , were very advanced in their understandings of science, cycles and maths. They used calculations based on multiples of 60 or more and they knew the revolution periods of all the planets in our solar system including Uranus and Neptune.

The Sumerians were the ones who divided the day into 86,400 seconds with 24 hours or 60 minutes of 60 seconds each.
They were also familiar with the precession of the equinoxes , a cycle of 9.450 million days or 26,000 years.

Dividing the Nineveh number by the cycle of the precession of the equinoxes, it divides into 240 big years of 9.450 million days each.
The fifteen digits on the clay tablet from Nineveh represented for the Sumerians 240 rotations of the seasons around the zodiac expressing time in SECONDS.

This Nineveh number which the Sumerians used was a great constant of the solar system. The true age of the Nineveh constant found in the ruins of the Royal library of King Assurbanipal, must have been computed around 64,800 years ago. This is hard for most people to understand, and It would not surprise me if at that time there was also a science about wormholes and interstellar travel- the Nineveh number could have been handed from space travellers.

Also the Mayans first constant they used equals exactly 3,600 Sumerian cycles of precession of the equinoxes of 9,400,000 days each.
The number 3,600 seems also to be an important number in all astronomical calculations that our ancestors made in a basic number of geometry for our planet.

We have exactly 3,600 tenths of one degree in the circumference of the globe and at the equator of each of these parts is equal to 36,000 Babylonian feet.

In Egypt the length of the granite coffer (which is not a coffin but actually a standard of measure) placed in the King's chamber inside the Great Pyramid, is exactly 2,268 millimeters.

The cubic cubits multiplied by the sacred number 126 again gives the number of the Great Constant 2,268 million.

The Egyptians were obviously familiar with this number.
So one thing is certain and that is all measurement systems ever used no matter where or when, shared a common relation to the dimensions of our planet.

http://www.earthmatrix.com/extract81.html

There are many civilizations after the Sumerians who used certain measurements for their temples based on the Great Constant and its associated mathematics.

This Nineveh number is just one tangible evidence of galactic measurements and planetary measurement, used in the Sumerian civilization and even up to today with our scientists.

Our scientists are curious about wormholes, dont you think the ancients were also interested?

[m1thr0s]

Our scientists are curious about wormholes, dont you think the ancients were also interested?we should start by being as clear as possible with our terms:

In physics, a wormhole is a hypothetical topological feature of spacetime that is essentially a 'shortcut' through space and time. A wormhole has at least two mouths which are connected to a single throat. If the wormhole is traversable, matter can 'travel' from one mouth to the other by passing through the throat. While there is no observational evidence for wormholes, spacetimes containing wormholes are known to be valid solutions in general relativity.

The term wormhole was coined by the American theoretical physicist John Wheeler in 1957. However, according to Coleman and Korte, p.199 of 'Hermann Weyl's Raum - Zeit - Materie and a General Introduction to His Scientific Work', Hermann Weyl invented the idea of wormholes in 1921 in connection with his analysis of mass in terms of electromagnetic field energy.
wiki link: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormholes)

I have hilighted the one sentence in red for a reason. It is my own personal belief that a good many of nature's most hidden secrets were in fact "observed" by the ancients in ways we have not observed them today, and the reason for this is about as obvious as it gets...they were using altered consciousness states much as we use calculators, computers, microscopes and telescopes today. It is difficult for us to accept this. We have evolved an extremely parochial attititude about "legitimate" knowledge along with the tools that make it all seem so "real" to us. Ancient man didn't enjoy these tools but he had pretty much the same exact brain that we have today and found other tools at his disposal that could be used to advance his understanding & mastery of his environment. In the final analysis there were found to be certain limitations to these tools. Many things could often be observed that could not ultimately be explained in altogether reliable ways. So the heuristic gradually shifted over to a more reliable (albeit less spectacular) form of knowledge that has taken many thousands of years to properly evolve.

So we can confidently assert that the ancients knew nothing of "wormholes" per se since this is a very recent term they probably never did employ. But it is very likely, in point of fact, that they were able to observe many things we are yet only capable of theorizing today. Observation in itself doesn't give you complete mastery of a thing, but it does give you a first-hand knowledge of it at the level of experience. What you do with that knowledge will vary...sometimes you can build upon it directly...sometimes you cannot and have to settle for recording the knowledge for future reference until you can better grasp exactly what to do with it.

But we err...and it is a foolish and a cocky error to presume to think that ancient man was somehow stupider than we are simply because his knowledge was rooted differently than our own. There are many things in which we command an easy advantage today but there remain some things where the advantage rests squarely with the knowledge of antiquity.

I believe it is highly likely that wormholes were in fact observed in antiquity and many, though not all, of their properties were, in fact, recorded. But they would not be calling them "wormholes" per se and it would be wildly absurd of any of us to expect that. That particular term has only been in circulation since 1957.

m1thr0s

[Neshamah]

My dear m1thr0s and friends,

I never said that ancient man was 'stupider' than we are. In fact, I believe that ancient humankind did use "other means" to observe the stars (as you so eloquently pointed out, m1). Case in point, the star Sirius and its companion Sirius B. The Dogon tribe from Africa has an elaborate theology built around 'unobservable' phenomena of the binary star system (period 50.09 yrs). There's also mounting evidence that the ancient Egyptians were aware of this Sirius A and B system, as well.

Since 'wormholes' began as a mathematical construct and are still unbobservable in the narrowest sense of that term (some astrophysicists are using the term 'gravastar' to explain the negligible observations that seem to indicate the presence of a 'wormhole'), I will just have to accept that the Sumerians were capable of "observing" these objects using "other means" and just let it go at that.

However, we should be cautious of erring in the other extreme - that is, passing off 'beliefs' as scientifically verifiable fact. This was what caught my attention in the original post. I have been looking for years for evidence that Akenaten (Amenhotep IV) was one of the teachers of Moses - or at least, the group of priests that served with Akenaten were instrumental in training Moses as an Egyptian priest. I'm still looking for that information; and I would be so very grateful if anyone who finds such information would point me in that direction.

Love and Light for a Peace Profound,

Neshamah

[m1thr0s]

I didn't mean to imply that you were making that assertion Neshamah, but was intending only to confine myself to what seems to be very common types of assumptions by so many others. You didn't use the term "stupider", but many others do.

However, we should be cautious of erring in the other extreme - that is, passing off 'beliefs' as scientifically verifiable fact.

I agree that this is as fallacious an accounting of knowledge as the reverse is presumptuous. It's a tricky sort of balance. But understanding that "modern science" as we know it did not exist until several hundred years ago is a pretty good reality check. Antiquity had its own kinds of science rooted in different kinds of assumptions in many cases, and very different tools... I think that understanding those tools will better assist us in classifying the knowledge obtained through them.

The Dogon (as you have mentioned) are another example of this. Obviously they did not have any of the advanced telescopes we have today, nor the computers needed to make highly complex mathematical calculations. It is almost universally assumed that their knowledge "must have been" brought to them via visitors from Outer Space (as Carl Sagan insists). I think it is even more plausable that it was made available to them via visitors from Inner Space, since the one thing they probably did have access to was some form of trance technology.

m1thr0s

[deviadah]

I have been looking for years for evidence that Akenaten (Amenhotep IV) was one of the teachers of Moses - or at least, the group of priests that served with Akenaten were instrumental in training Moses as an Egyptian priest. I'm still looking for that information; and I would be so very grateful if anyone who finds such information would point me in that direction.
Perhaps I can aid you. The link between Akenaten and Moses was introduced by Freud! Happy hunting :cool:

[Naomi]

Cool, cool.

Definately anything technologically plausible within the immediate space surrounding matter will also be accessible at a micro-fractal levels, somewhere on earth, and probably even in our own bodies. We only have to get the cells in our body trained to cooperate and work in harmony.

The idea of foreign influences interests me, from say, a half a universe away - an enormous distance with overwhelming complexity between here and there. It's there perhaps that we can net technological advancements unavailable in the immediate solar system, or perhaps even the immediate galaxy. So in learning to extend our minds outwards using the light body we can perhaps capture new vibrations and net them back into the physical for later access and retrieval.

I never really cared for the Lord's prayer. It suggests I need forgiveness or something, and I don't need a dad really...nor do many species of the animal kingdom for that matter. It's certainly an interesting prayer anthropologically speaking, and perhaps alchemically. I'd have to consider that one for a while since alchemy isn't really my strong suit. Then there's the part about temptation...much of my tantric practice is centered around giving in to temptation as a way of processing that.

[baenheh]

I think that the Lord's prayer has been distorted in the sense that its been made too 'literal' in what it states and requires more heart intelligence than intellect or logic.

I found this about creating electromagnetic wormholes, where there has been experiments with electromagnetic fields and capturing and redirecting light.

http://www.fastlanetransport.ca/blog/electromagnetic-wormhole-new-discovery-reveals-how-to-create-one/weird-science

[Dragon]

Ok. rather then explain it, I'll just give a link. Here is one entrance to the rabbit hole if you really want to to dig. The 2nd translation was always my favorite. Talking Fox often tells me that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And I have always said that that is true, in the spiritual sense as well as the material. Although I don't discount the possibility, my gut tells me that it is not the probability. So I feel that sometimes a prayer is just a prayer.

No more-

No less. ;)



http://www.thenazareneway.com/lords_prayer.htm

~D~

[deviadah]

Since the Lord's Prayer is in the Bible I give here a link to The Dark Bible (http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/DarkBibleContents.htm). :devil:
Enjoy...