Spirits good with getting money

[BrotherM]

Hi All,

I am looking for recommendations of spirits that are good at magicking up cash, and I need a not insignificant amount of it to cover the up and coming repair bills that I am being made to pay because the git I bought my house from didn't bother with maintenance. I need at least £15,000.

Now, I worked with combinations of angels from the Key of Solomon and they have been good with business and getting money from working harder, but man, I already pull 14 hour days and if I work any harder I'll die and my wife will leave me and the dog, well, he already thinks I am a burgler... Not to mention that even if I do work harder, I won't see the benefits until next bonus which is too far away.

So I am looking for the 'lower' kind of spirits that can magick up large sums of cash in a timeframe of around 3 months. Since I am confident in my ability to summon and command spirits, I am after recommendations from any source except Enochian (and they wouldn't help me anyway with this sort of thing). We can call it "Project Rainbow" for the pot of gold at the end and I will publish here my rituals and any results.

But now, please advise of spirits, high, low or somewhere in between, and think big people :D . This won't be your "in the living room" kind of ritual either, I intend to make my way to a forest, camp out and do this properly.

BrotherM

[Anibis]

Have you considered Ed McMahon? "You may have already won..." Quick fix money sounds like a recipe for... well whatever. Don't do it in a forest, I would think. Do it in the financial district of your city...
-Anibis

[BrotherM]

Have you considered Ed McMahon? "You may have already won..." Quick fix money sounds like a recipe for... well whatever. Don't do it in a forest, I would think. Do it in the financial district of your city...
-Anibis

eeerrrrr, yeah, Ed at quick-fix - would be great to make a servitor like this and send him out to rip people off for my benefit, only that would make me a dick!

I don't want this to be related to banking or work (I am a banker!). The forest is because I want to be isolated that is all. I work in the financial district and there is sod all of anything magickal or spiritual here. Besides, rocking up in the centre of London with robe and sword at night to do an evocation may land me in jail?

Which spirits would you suggest?

BM

[Anibis]

I am not much of an evoker to tell you the truth, so I cannot help you there. I draw off energies and channel them. My magick consists of just resonating with a ton of synchros without really trying force anything to happen. I'm sorry I cannot help you more. Money magick for me is sympathetic magic: I relate to pennies to draw flows of currency to and through me... The sort of thing I would do is take a number which expresses fortune: maybe 44, then take 44 pennies and make a circle of them around my house casting a wish or sigil into each one. This would not evoke a spirit, but would draw money to the specific target: the house. It might also have effects like 'lucking' you into someone willing to do work for barter, or some other shortcut to dealing with your difficulties... know what I mean?
-Anibis

[BrotherM]

I do my friend, but I think this is a great opportunity to see how well evocation can actually work. I don't often have a need, so I don't often cast 'spells', but this need is great due to dodgy landlord so I want to take the opportunity to make an experiement.

[Anibis]

Give'er as they say over here!
-Anibis

[m1thr0s]

geez BrotherM...lemme know if you find this cat! lol...

I don't know what it's been with me & money...my godamm nemesis.

I really think sometimes some of us are facing a special circumstance with regards to money. Money itself is nothing...just a "medium of exchange" as they say. But on other levels it's tied to this whole ghastly business of Restriction, or Choronzon, or Maya or whatever the f*ck we might call it...this whole damn "Evil Genius" bullshit scenario. I get the feeling sometimes that people that are too close to real solutions to this shit magickally wind up coming under the gun in exaggerated ways and all the usual "fairy dust" methods of dispelling it fail to have any impact. It winds up getting linked to the whole damn "crisis of humanity" somehow...this massive load of shit...tremendous backlog that has to be cleared out just to get the damn "lemons" to line up in a row.

sucks...but the game's not over till it's won...so hammer down, man...

and good hunting...:cool:

m1thr0s

[BrotherM]

:D

I fully believe that this is possible without impacting my life / work, I don't yet know how as I have not yet identified the spirit(s) that I need to use, or even the method(s) that I need to employ, but it will happen.

Cash is relative, £15K ($30K) is nothing to some people, but a whole lot to others (such as me). I suspect that magick can be made to work on this relativity to 'create' cash. I may use a Nec spirit or a Verum spirit for this... I am also open to black magick suggestions if anybody may have them (but accept that I will apply them to my weird personal moral values first...). If I can't get a spirit to work, I am going to resort to more traditional 'low' magick like what Anibis was talking about. If that doesn't work, I am going to 'weave' me some cash. But, for now, anybody got any spirits in mind?

BM

EDIT: mmm, Reverse Relativity servitor that takes bills and turns them into cash...??? The less cash you put in, the more cash you get out.

[Neshamah]

I can recall a few years ago when I had barely two coins to rub together. Money, for me, was something I was without most of my life -- until the past 5 or 6 years. Then things just started turning around; I don't know what I'm doing differently or what has changed. I only know that it is not nearly so difficult to "pay the bills" and have a couple of "bills" left over afterward.

My only advice, BrotherM, don't do anything that impacts negatively on your "karma," or whatever you wish to call the system of checks and balances. I know that no amount of money is worth being in cosmic debt.

Just my 2 cents worth. ;)

Love and Light, with Peace Profound,

Neshamah

[Fio Praeter Humanus]

Not sure bro.
Sachiel is a no go. Most jovian spirits can bring money but none I know of can accomplish it quickly, which you already know that.

Perhaps Ziku from the Nec? Never used him but worth a shot?

[1000ShadesofGrey]

Just two ideas.

1 - Bling-Bling - http://www.occultforums.com/showthread.php?t=18031&highlight=bling

2 - Tsay Shen Yeh - Chinese God of Wealth...and with him you can increase you bank account and your good karma...Just ask him that the money that he gives you be removed from a real wrong-doer, like arms dealers, governments, russian mob, the pope...you get the idea

[Sibylle]

I work in the financial district and there is sod all of anything magickal or spiritual here.

BM

I think that makes sense. The financial district and the magickal/spiritual district are worlds apart. If there is a spirit to use to conjure money, I haven't found it yet. I'd really like to be wrong about this, and look forward to your sharing the discovery if you do find the way. Meanwhile, the only connection I can think of is the Devil of tarot - even though it is materiality, and money is an illusion we all agree on. Now that you've brought it up, I may devise a tarot spell for the purpose.

[MythMath]

I don't know what it's been with me & money...my godamm nemesis.

I think I may see the problem here... :laugh:

[BrotherM]

:D

Hi All, thanks for the suggestions. I did dig out my Nec last night and there were three in there that caught my eye (at work now so can't pull out the Nec and start copying names but will post them later, Ziku was one of them - he gives riches right?)

sod it *opens book*

1/ Ziku: gives riches
2/ Enbilulugugal: can supply a starvig city with a years food in 28 days
3/ Barashakushu: worker of miracles

those are my thoughts. There are also spirits in the NAP book for wealth and for games of chance that I may look at.

I heard a rumour that it was more effective to summon the Nec entities via the Goetic method than the Nec method with the watcher? Anybody got comments on this? Personally don't care which method I use, but just interested...

Neshamah: Thanks for your concern, but I have my ways of dealing with Karma, not the least of which includes not doing things that get me any kind of spiritual debt. Walking the grey line is harder and you have to know what you are doing...

BM

Bling-Bling -> ROFL, sounds awesome, I love the idea of this thing!

[m1thr0s]

ZiKu's got a nice ring to it...notaricon=27 (consonants only - aiq bkr) = trigrammaton!

Isn't there a Zeek or Zek or something in Enochian? Should probably cross-reference...

Lovers - Hermit - Fortune - Heirophant (Thoth)...

Need a little background to forge a good talisman...good ring on the name though...

m1thr0s

[BrotherM]

hey m1thr0s, good wokr man! I Liked Ziku as well, here is some background:

"The fifteenth name is Ziku. This power bestoweth Riches of all kinds, and can tell where treasury is hidden. Knower of the Secrets of the Earth. His Word is GIGGIMAGANPA and his seal is thus"

But I can't post pics and I only the hard copy of the book...

BrotherM

[Fio Praeter Humanus]

Not sure bro.
Perhaps Ziku from the Nec?

Ahem, what am I invisible?

Don't use Barashakushu. He either won't do the job or be a dick about it. Just his way. Also use the Nec method, it works better as least in my experience.

[BrotherM]

Ahem, what am I invisible?

Don't use Barashakushu. He either won't do the job or be a dick about it. Just his way. Also use the Nec method, it works better as least in my experience.

Dude - i was going to thank you but forgot, no hard feelings (or I'll send the hounds of hell to eat your soul... joke, sort of.. no seriously :D )

Anyway, I am going to have to dig up the bannishing Crown of Anu that you wrote, is it still on Ashnooks site?

Here is some more info on Ziku stole from sacred-magick, full credit to Endunpanna the original poster:



The fifteenth name is ZIku. Tzee-koo His word of calling is Giggimaganpa, Geeg-geem-ahgah-ahnpah

Enuma Elish

Tutu they thirdly called
15) ZIKU, who establishes holiness,
The god of the benign breath, the lord who hearkens and acceeds;
Who produces riches and treasures, establishes abundance;...
Who has turned all our wants to plenty;
Whose benign breath we smelled in sore distress.
Let them speak, let them exalt, let them sing his praises!

A good way to use this seal is to write it on the back of money along with the aga, arra and bandar, and then spend it. Your money will return to you.

Use this spirit to improve your financial situation.

A spell I compsed for Ziku.

Mighty Ziku!
Thank you for all the help with work.
You are totally awesome.
May Ziku grow in power!
May the wish of Ziku become reality!
Mighty BandarZikuAgaku!
May we become one and grow in power!
Zi Dingir Edunpanna Kanpa!
Zi Dingir Bandar Kanpa!
Zi Dingir Anna Kanpa!
Zi Dingir Kia Kanpa!
Zi Dingir Gibil Kanpa!
Zi Dingir Enki Kanpa!
Zi Dingir Anu Kanpa!
Zi Dingir Marduk Kanpa!
Gigimaganpa!

Geeg-geem-ahg-ahn-pah


Don't know about the "totally awesome" bit but hey...

BrotherM

[Fio Praeter Humanus]

Anyway, I am going to have to dig up the bannishing Crown of Anu that you wrote, is it still on Ashnooks site?

Yes as well as in the sticky in the Nec forum at SM. You can use the ritual or just read the exorcism as is. Also another member has posted a Banishing Ritual of the Arra Star that is pretty good in the same thread. You might want to check that out as well.

[BrotherM]

Yes as well as in the sticky in the Nec forum at SM. You can use the ritual or just read the exorcism as is. Also another member has posted a Banishing Ritual of the Arra Star that is pretty good in the same thread. You might want to check that out as well.

Cool I will do.

Has anybody used any other spirits? I was thinking maybe use a spirit that is good for winning games of chance and then buy a few lottery tickets or something. There have to be millions of those, any names?

BrotherM

[fr.novumorganum]

hey, great thread so far.

well, i've tried the traditional jupiter/chesed spirits, and IMHO that work seems for long term increase in wealth (and wealth means much more that $$$ to them---status, career, progression in work etc).

I've never used the goetics, but they seem like a classic choice for this type of work.


Another over-looked resource of spirits are those listed by Bardon in The Practice of Magickal Evocation. I have had good luck with some of these before. And they are a really interesting bunch.

[BrotherM]

Hey Fr.

I use a combination of Sol, Malkuth and Jupiter for my career and it works amazingly well. I found using just Jupiter made me work so hard I almost died, but bring Sol and Malkuth into the mix helps to create wealth and crystalise it for me here and now so it works great. I know some people also like to include Saturn, but I am more subtle than that.

BUT, you are right, this is about instant wealth -> which bardon spirits would you recommend? I looked through the Goetia and couldn't find anything that I liked (no link in this case). Any suggestions? (I did have cool dreams though :))

many thanks,

BrotherM

[BrotherM]

Why is it that when we cast spells for money, we get small amounts, $10 here and there found lost in a book? Is $30,000 a lot of money? I say no. The GDP of the world is around $62,000,000,000,000,000. The US economy is about $12 trillion, Western Europe is larger. Last year, 3 hedge Fund managers got over $1 billion in bonus alone. In London, well over 4,000 people in the square mile got over $1 million bonus. I walk down the road and each day I see 10 or more Porsches, Astons and other cars that ferry a seemingly large portion of the population around here to and from work. Would these people think twice about spending $30K, I doubt it. I doubt it because last week some B(w)ankers racked up a $30K bar tap and then paid a waitress $5K for her underpants!

With magick, we get what we ask for at a subconscious level. Before I do whatever it ends up that I do, I am going to invoke the mentality of the rich and famous...

BrotherM

[Frater SI]

Ave Moe!

Besides winning the Lotto or working like a Hebrew slave , The Spirits still need some kind of vehicle :D I have worked with Seer when I required some Financial help. All that happened is I got more work than I could cope with.. I find these kind of things are work far better in the long term .. I have not yet found caskets of Cash in the backyard Or Blonde Strippers who own a brewery and are heiresses to the Heineken Fortune ? I have no doubt that you can make life easier not selfishly rich but cover the basics I just haven't found anyone with the magical formula.. I once heard a Quote "If Magicians put as much effort into making money as they do into the study of magick there would be no doubt as to them being millionaires"

[m1thr0s]

I once heard a Quote "If Magicians put as much effort into making money as they do into the study of magick there would be no doubt as to them being millionaires"you know, I am quite certain that would be true Frater SI but for a little complication...magick really isn't about money and the ways in which you have to adjust your brain are all too often completely at odds to each other.

Where I believe magicians hold a supreme advantage is in sorting out how to do their natural wills profitably...but this may take some serious groundwork to be laid before it can all come to fruition. Some of us are set on rather squirrely tasks that don't just slide so easily into the money/marketing saddle...they have to be hammered into place and this may take a little time.

There are things we all know about (or have read about). Abramelin used to get paid for his trouble - according to him - upwards to 7 gold coins per day. That's a pretty decent stash at the end of a month or a year, but here's the rub...it's pretty unlikely that any modern day magicians could effectively repeat this because the whole magickal heuristic has shifted since Abramelin's time and it's highly unlikely that the same offer is still on the table.

Magick is about Will and Will can be trained on the matter of Money. I don't really know that it might not still be possible to direct something or someone to bring wealth to you so I'm not going to go off about the hazards of that...but I do think that for most of us, the way to wealth lies in the perfecting of our Works...

This is not what people usually want to hear...especially when there is a financial crisis looming. I don't want to put the quash on any other possibilities as I am as curious about this as the next person. But I do get a little tired of people who may not really know that much about the high art of magick coming on like they know all about what works for magicians! I have seen all kinds of so-called magick/money-advises that just flat-out miss the point by a mile.

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

Money is value, but value is not neccesarily money. Money is time but time is not necessarily money. Money is a liquid. Build a pipeline and it flows through. Technique. Money is corrupt because of the practice of usury. Still magick employs our time. If our time is all being converted into low amounts of money at a joe-job or whatever, we have less of it for our True Wills. Money IS magick though... it just needs be yoked... and due to the vampiric energy of usury, it is also covered in nasty little leaches which must be salted off. Like anything else, money is at its best when you naturally resonate with it... Anyway... shoot for value and what money you need will come... Remember the copper dragon... pennies like red blood cells... low magic keeps me flowing.... like the rivers... DWTWSBTWOTLLITLLUW.... Enjoy money, respect money, know what is ill about money and give it healing... Don't worship money, don't hate money, just be its friend.... it will visit you.

There's my advice to you, (just to be annoying). It's funny... people often invest to make money... if more people invested to distribute labor across the world under will, we would have better living conditions, I think... my two cents...

Money is an informations system designed to deploy labor. Labor is time compacted into a focused effort. Barter does what money does, Love does what money does, fear does what money does... concentrates time... if you wish to solve a problem such as say, needing to repair your house, bring TIME to bear on it, carrying money, barter, and sheer luck with it...

Stream of consciousness meditations on money. Copper dragon. Cheers;
-Anibis

[BrotherM]

You see guys, this is one thing I do well and that is make money. I have been using career magick for years and damn it works well. My problem is not wealth, it is cashflow at this present time. I just bought a house for a large sum of money (wiping out my savings) and now getting more in a short timeframe is hard. £15K is not a financial crisis for me, it's a pain though. Since I won't be ruined, I don't really care if this works or not, but I'd really like it to because I have genuine need, I like my car and this is a great experiment :)

Frater SI, see my above post about using multiple spirits to enhance career. You can't just use Jupertonian (word?) spirits, because to them work is the reward. career magick is better long term, but I believe there is a money pot waiting for a magickian and I intend to find it! Why do I believe it so much? Well, money is a limitation that is imposed by humans for humans, nothing else cares about money except us. If I ask a spirit to get $1 and it goes off and does it, cool. Now if I ask the same spirit for $1million, what is it going to do?

I think magickians make two fundamental mistakes when approaching money magick:

1) They don't believe big sums of money are possible and as such either don't try hard enough or don't ask big enough. It's like breaking a board in ninja school - if you don't fully commit, you end up with a sore hand. I have a solid amount of money in mind so can quote a figure and the mindset that this will easily work. Think of it this way, do spirits care about the difference between $1 and $1million? No, they never 'worked' a day in their lives the slack MOFO's! If it worls for $1, it works for $1million, simple as that.

2) They think too much about "HOW" the money will show up and in doing so limit themselves to the point where by it can't show up. Believe in the universe, position yourself in the correct current and results will flow your way.

Still, anybody know some good "game of chance" spirits? Demons are better I think... (Where is that demonologist previously known as LadyH?)

BrotherM

[m1thr0s]

Naomi is kind of on an extended Sabbatical (couldn't be helped)...

She's all over the web though...might try to contact her directly...

m1thr0s

[BrotherM]

ok, no problem, anybody else here good with demons or am I going to have to ask demons (makes for boring discussion topic :()

[m1thr0s]

well not me I guess but it can't be all that difficult if you're really looking, right?

I wonder what demon Solomon employed for instance...even though the credit went to g-o-d...I really don't buy it...not god's balywick from anything else I've ever seen...

That kind of gold doesn't grow on trees and anyway...there's not many trees in the desert...(nor gold!)

m1thr0s

[BrotherM]

Yeah I agree man, Solomons Demons I also thought would be great for this. The one small problem with Goetics is that they are tricky, nasty, lying Fvckers to say the least, oh, and they scare the dog. I know a lot of people who have success in summoning them, but to actually get a spot on result, it would be easier to whore myself to every woman in South Park!

Now I always get results when working with them, but they always try and screw me at the same time. I have been told buy some very respectable people in the summoning circles that to get Goetics to work, you need to employ the Black Box and the Vessel of Brass, without those two, you don't stand a chance of getting the spot on result and not have the little bastard try and screw you some other way. I often employ a simpler method when working with them, I let them screw me over in some way that is not as important as the result that I want - kind of a personal sacrifice. So for instance (and this is not a real example) If I wanted a Goetic to conjure up a woman, it would do it and then it would also let my wife find out which would cause me grief. My grief would be most enjoyable to the Goetic and he would extract his payment and get demon brownie points for screwing over a magickian. Suppose i didn't really care about that happening, I would be happy to make the trade.

Nec spirits are somewhat easier, they just want some bread and a bit of nettle... good trade as far as I am concerned.

I would like to employ both however. I think the only spirits that I am stearing clear of are Angels and Olympic spirits. Angels would probably try and "teach" me that I don't really need the money to be happy (mmmkay!) and the Olympics kind of piss me off, not sure why, they just do.

So I am going to use Ziku from the Nec
I want to use a Goetic (bring out the black box :)) (Asmodey maybe? Paimon?)
I would like to use a Grimoirium Verum spirit if I can find a good enough one
I am going to use the wonderful NAP spirit Elubaitel
I may use some of the slightly evil gnome things that live in the first hidden path under Yesod
If Fr. Novum can suggest a Bardon Spirit, i may use one of them as well

Sorry for the ramble

WTF, where is Hitman777? This stuff is usually up his alley?

BrotherM

[Jacob]

Ziku + Bune. And yeah, maybe some gnomes too.

[Frater SI]

Bro-M I am glad you brought up the Napster 'Elubaitel' And Another one that slips my Mind I used those Spirits recently when I was struggling to sell my house .. Put it this way after four weeks of nothing I basically had a person off the street walk in and Hound me to Buy the place.. My Issue is right now all my Books are someplace in the middle of the atlantic on there way to your side of the planet .. I was going to ask if you were going to Use NAP or the Ishtar Rituals ...

[BrotherM]

Ah, good old NAP, yes, that is definately going to be used. I don't yet have a copy of NIP or I would probably use that as well. I think I'll do both the basic chant and that more advanced BoL ritual from NAP.

very gald that you finally sold the house man. I also usually wait until I am really desperate before I use magick... silly really :) When do you get here? or are you here already:ninja:

[BrotherM]

Ziku + Bune. And yeah, maybe some gnomes too.

The Twenty-sixth Spirit is Bune (or Bim). He is a Strong, Great and Mighty Duke. He appeareth in the form of a Dragon with three heads, one like a Dog, one like a Gryphon, and one like a Man. He speaketh with a high and comely Voice. He changeth the Place of the Dead, and causeth the Spirits which be under him to gather together upon your Sepulchres. He giveth Riches unto a Man, and maketh him Wise and Eloquent. He giveth true Answers unto Demands. And he governeth 30 Legions of Spirits. His Seal is this, unto the which he oweth Obedience. He hath another Seal (which is the first of these but the last is the best).

Have you used him for cash before? this sounds like 'inner wealth' to me?

[Frater SI]

Dude I will be starting in the UK 1 June .. We will definitely hook up for some Pints :yes:..

I agree We both work damn hard , Its not often I require Prosperity Magick .. Only If I have no other options left and thats normally when magick really works ..funny that :o_O:

[BrotherM]

yeah that is a wierd thing, I am sure it has to do with the level of desire. Desire of results is bad, but desire for resolution is not...

Demons Demons Demons....

[fr.novumorganum]

Bardon (http://www.hermes-press.com/Perennial_Tradition/bardon1.htm)

Here is the e-txt. Just read through the spirit hierarchy to find suitable candidates.

Sadly, this e-text version does not include the rather powerful sigils for each spirit.

[hitman777]

Whoa, I'm here! Nobody crap your pants.:laugh:
Bro M adding on to what I said before, pertaining to the Goetics:
There are other ways to get them to be upfront and do what you want them to do, without binding them to the vessel of brass. Get them in the Triangle, make sure you've got the Triangle nice and charged, and (this is where a lot of people would use the black box, but depending on how you do it, or if you make some adjustments, it's not 100% neccesary), make them tell you any secret names of theirs, or words or names that force their total obedience. Test them on this, as obviously they won't want to tell the truth. Make them swear in names of God, constrain them more powerfully than before to the truth, employ torture, etc. IF you get the real word or words of power out of them, they'll do what you ask, right down to the finest details. At least that's how it worked for me with my favorite go to Goetic. I haven't gotten around to doing it with the rest of them yet (yeah, I'm a lazy bastard, sorry), but ever since, whenever I evoke him, he shows up quick, he does want I want him to do, he never halfasses it (although he usually doesn't anyway, if anything he goes overboard:cool: ).
I agree that people worry too much about how the money will manifest, and I've fallen into this trap myself, several times. You've got to work on other things, or whatever, and let the money come to you. And that's a lot harder than it sounds!:laugh:
For getting money, if you're referring to planetary wise, go Mercury. Works for me. Sol, while the payoff is great, you may end up having to work hard for it.
SO SPEAKETH THE EXALTED ONE!

humbly,
hitman

[Naomi]

Everything about money and wealth is just based on two major factors:

1. Humans, who are controllable.
2. Broad forces of nature, enviromental conditions, largely uncontrollable by most.

So what you do is you find a way you can make money. You can get a job or invest in the stockmarket. I have suggested stocks to my family members, and given them advice. They sold a company stock when I told them not to, simply because it dropped in value and they panicked. Shortly after, about a year later, it went international and they could have made a mint. Later she bought AMD at a very low price on my suggestion and she made 30,000 (in my opinion she sold too soon) - I didn't see a penny of this mind you, but I don't care. So what you can do is target a company you like, and either ask a demon you trust about it, or have them influence the company, by using the humans in the company as pawns.

I don't work with money often. It is my opinion that the karmic weight of not having any more money than you need to eat, find pleasure and sleep comfortably pays off in spades. I have a very short list of requirements. So when things are off I sit by the stream of the universe flowing by me and rearrange the threads as they pass me by until they suit my needs.


Doing a ritual to "get money" takes too much exertion and energy. We must work on effortless effort. I could be a highly successful real estate agent or a stockbroker, because I understand how things work. Once you understand that, you have targets. It's only a matter of rearranging pieces. Very simple. It only takes a little research and myriad kinds of magic.

I have a few suggestions, however, and some warnings on the Goetia:

Buer - Dangerous, not reccomended
Sallos - Dangerous, not reccomended
Baal - Dangerous, but reccomended
Orobas - Good for influencing employers, very reasonable

For deities, pleasing Venus or Jupiter is probably your best bet. Venus rules over commerce and Jupiter, fortune. They tend to work together.

I've always applied myself to the Saturnian and Mercurial spheres, so I couldn't really advise much in this area, other than I know Venus likes fame and sparkly things. She also hates being ignored. You will need to know the correct approach to these intelligences before you recieve success, as they are above humans, and protocol is key to everything in these sort of workings. They won't deign to speak with you without proper protocol being followed.




(Hitman, I think torturing demons is also careless and hazardous, though know I've never doubted your prowess. They work outside time and have a very long time to think about ways to get even....especially if one is not as hardened as thou art.

I always refer to the infernal lords with an air of respect, dignity and a bit of flattery, in return they have paid that respect back to me tenfold. Imps, not so much, but then they can also be more volatile than their elders depending on their sphere of influence.)

[BrotherM]

HI NC,

Thanks for the recommendations, Baal is an interesting one for this...

BrotherM

[Naomi]

Yeah you know, it's funny but the big guys tend to be the ones who practice temperance, it's just....you have to be really really polite to them. But they're not going to blow your head off or anything for no reason. Just don't give them one.

All the best,

Naomi

[BrotherM]

yeah, not planning on black-boxing a king...

Bloomin hell, made a proper INNANA Dagger of Calling on the weekend and the amount of poltergeist activity that happened afterwards was quite surprising - so now I have banished and wrapped it up in silk and hidden it away. Ah, you have to love the Nec for wierd stuff it can randomly generate!

BrotherM

[Fio Praeter Humanus]

Dude, get a small piece of lapis and either store it with it or attach it to the blade or handle. You will not have any problems after that.

[Naomi]

yeah, not planning on black-boxing a king...

Bloomin hell, made a proper INNANA Dagger of Calling on the weekend and the amount of poltergeist activity that happened afterwards was quite surprising - so now I have banished and wrapped it up in silk and hidden it away. Ah, you have to love the Nec for wierd stuff it can randomly generate!

BrotherM

Innana is good. :yes:

I had that sort of activity happen a while ago. My friend Sebastian thought it would be cute to give me a few legions of infernal demons to work with. I had to give them all jobs before they ate me out of house and home...quite overwhelming really....

Such activity can be useful if you know how to redirect it. But banishing works too....they'll always be there in the dark, waiting...

[BrotherM]

I know INNANA is good, it is the active tool that attracts the 'Imps' of the nec and they hassle you - it's funny but annoying. Besides, if this is what the 'good' ones cause, imagine the 'bad' ones :D

Nero, Lapis Lazuli hey?

[Naomi]

just slap them around a bit...

[BrotherM]

they are really easy to banish so its no problem. I actually found a section of the MAGAN text that explains why it happens with the INNANA dagger of calling. I am at work so I can't write it out but it is the end of the MAGAN text where INNANA escapes hell and Ereshkigal curses her, that curse is what impacts us the so called lovers of Ishtar.

anyway...

[m1thr0s]

keep us in the loop BroM...if you can...very curious how this all plays out...

are you still planning to work with Ziku for instance, or changed your mind on that?

found a quickie cheat-sheet of NEC Sigils here (http://www.satanshimmel.de/necronomicon_1.htm) in German though and I am not 100% sure of its accuracy... displays Ziku's sigil as:

http://www.satanshimmel.de/necronomicon/ZIKU.gif

this site (http://cody.eldar.cz/knihovna/necronomicon/cyber_templi/kniha_padesati_jmen.htm) seems to have the order placed differently...shows it as:

http://cody.eldar.cz/picts/knihovna/necronomicon/cyber_templi/nec14_14.gif

misplaced my own copy some years back so I can't really check it. NEC sigils are loose goose pseudo-sigils though if we are really talking anything substantial...you're almost always better off to start from scratch and build the thing yourself.

Unfortunately...outside the NEC, Ziku appears to have no other references I can find yet...nothing in the actual historical record...this doesn't always matter to NEC enthusiasts though...

I have a lot of questions on all of this since this is pretty much the domain of ritual magick and I'm a tantricist moreover. It's not that I can't move into these waters if I want to...it just never really seems real enough to warrant it.

So I am naturally very curious if you can actually make this work.

note: ZIKU is also classed as a Goddess form in the so-called Book of Calling (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~jasen01/texts/Book-of-Calling.html) (mother of Enki)... One of the possible numerations = 31 (via AIQ BKR), ie, Zayn (7) + Yod (10) + Kheth (8) + Vau (6) = 31 which can be seen as a Feminine Aspect (La = "Not" etc)... Always very difficult to pin these characters down to anything concrete...

In other places I find the name ZIKU used as an alternate name of MARDUK (though I frankly find this much less believable)...

How can anybody actually rely on the NEC for anything? Is it irrelevant that this shit is probably completely fabricated? It's a great name, don't get me wrong...but how can you really assign any actual archetypal properties to it? Based on what?

Anyway...I'd like to see Ziku nail this one (I like its resonance)...I just don't quite see how it's even remotely possible to harness it/him/her... Not even its gender is validatable, nor its symbol, nor its lineage...nothing!

When you employ these characters, is it adequate that you just sort of invent the context by which they will be manifesting? Do you just set the stage however you like it and call it good to go?

I come from a pretty strong phenomenology bent so it doesn't much matter to me either way. I'm not interested in validating people's various methodologies so much as understanding how they employ them in general. You can tell me sure, I just ad-lib all this crap and off it goes!...and I'll actually accept that for the mostpart. Doesn't mean it works for me but that's not necessarily the point either. I am just curious how on earth any of this could rationally work for anybody! The tantrics are pretty strict about things adhering to solid principles of one kind or another and alchemy pretty much follows suit with this also. It's difficult for me to grasp what principles are involved in just making things up and calling them real!

and/or maybe that's not what's really going on here though...

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

How can anybody actually rely on the NEC for anything? Is it irrelevant that this shit is probably completely fabricated? It's a great name, don't get me wrong...but how can you really assign any actual archetypal properties to it? Based on what?

Anyway...I'd like to see Ziku nail this one (I like its resonance)...I just don't quite see how it's even remotely possible to harness it/him/her... Not even its gender is validatable, nor its symbol, nor its lineage...nothing!

When you employ these characters, is it adequate that you just sort of invent the context by which they will be manifesting? Do you just set the stage however you like it and call it good to go?

I come from a pretty strong phenomenology bent so it doesn't much matter to me either way. I'm not interested in validating people's various methodologies so much as understanding how they employ them in general. You can tell me sure, I just ad-lib all this crap and off it goes!...and I'll actually accept that for the mostpart. Doesn't mean it works for me but that's not necessarily the point either. I am just curious how on earth any of this could rationally work for anybody! The tantrics are pretty strict about things adhering to solid principles of one kind or another and alchemy pretty much follows suit with this also. It's difficult for me to grasp what principles are involved in just making things up and calling them real!

and/or maybe that's not what's really going on here though...

m1thr0s

Well...nobody likes it when nothing happens. You always see people new at it getting real discouraged by the lack of special effects. There are many things in the universe that are illusion, so perhaps something that seems like something worthless is actually of great value (real and solid).

I ad-lib alot - you have to with some entities, they're too unpredictable.

I never used the Nec - the newly fabricated part turned me off, too. If I'm going to work with something newly fabricated, I want to do it on my own terms with my own foundation. (Well...not so much, lately.) But see - I met this guy on OF who claimed to me in e-mail he belonged to a group of aliens that inspired the stories of HP Lovecraft when Lovecraft did some time/space travel to their sector of the galaxy (ie outside of our ring of cosmos - a vast amount of space - see below) And it's weird because I did remember something about his people - and I tend to place these events in my life to help me recall some things I need to do. (I have no way of proving that to anyone, nor do I really care much.)

389


What's tantra about? Weaving! What's fabric about? Weaving! What's Shakti about?! Creation! Does the Absolute understand that? I don't know! I don't really care! It happens, it works! It's real! The Absolute really has nothing to do with it after a certain point - once the Absolute interferes, it ceases instantly to be the absolute and becomes only an emanation, if my grasp of things is bigger than it, I can kill it or bend it to my will.

Here's a story on that, regarding the Bhairav, Nath:

http://www.dalsabzi.com/Articles/story_of_ma_vaishno_devi.htm

There are a few different versions of that story, but that is a better one than the others, which are tainted with Brahman bs...

It's like panning for gold. You get a lot of dirt and pebbles in your pan and you shake it around a lot looking for the gold. It's time consuming and probably looks useless to someone who doesn't know what you're doing. So creation is a messy dirty process that is time consuming, useless looking and probably pretty relaxing too since you're just standing there in a river or creek you know, and it's real nice....

(You know I have never panned for gold, but I think i'd definately be good at it, I have a knack for finding gemstones, animals and gold....)

As for just making things up and calling them real - that's not actually what I do. I make things up and then give them life, thus, they become real at some level. The real goal is to make that level as high as possible. It's pretty simple. And then there's recall - things I've made millions and billions of years ago that have simple snowballed and are still working forms. That's all anything is.

Weaving forms, weaving clothes, same thing.

Anyways, things do adhere to solid principles - they have to. Using those solid principles, understanding how they work, is very difficult for humanity, and it gets worse as time goes on without any guidance. I don't think it would be so difficult if people were taught the basics from day 1 though.

I think I probably fabricated you, too, m1thr0s. :dull: Maybe like at the dawn of time....

[BrotherM]

I am trying to decide between using Ziku or two spirits from the Grimoirium Verum. Both grimoires are fabricated, but then everything ever created by man was first conceived in the mind of man. To me this includes all magickal works, because we as humans do not have the ability to conceive spiritual reality as it stands. Therefore we must interpret, anything interpreted is not pure.

The Nec and the Verum are not "real", but the currents they describe are. Just because something was written 600 years ago (i.e. the Goetia, Agrippa etc) doesn't make it right. To me it just makes it lacking in 600 years of human evolution and thought.

Authenticity means nothing to me when compared to results.

BrotherM

[m1thr0s]

That's a great answer BrotherM...thank you for that. That was what I was trying to sort out here. I can understand this position very well and it certainly seems to me that if you can play the game by these rules you must be in about as strong a position as anybody could be.

This is also what I was getting at in saying that the only thing I can be very sure of with Ziku so far is that it seems to resonate very well. Good numbers...good stats in general...good energy configuration. It would of course be useful if there was a bit more consolidation going on with it/him/her but there are certain even very pronounced forms (ie Ningishzidda for instance) that run us into the same kinds of issues. Doesn't invalidate anything but it also leaves a bit flapping in the wind...

m1thr0s

[BrotherM]

This is a hard post, mostly because I can't verbalise this very well so I will try and be to the point:

1) My magick worked, I have the money I need ($31K to be exact)
2) It came to me not through work, but through some pretty strange means (i.e. a weird sequence of events that led to me being given money by somebody i hardly know and will probably never see again)
3) I did not use any of the spirits mentioned, I used my own personal style of wierd magick and am utterly over joyed by the result
4) I do not believe it would work again, unless I had the need and the universe decided to fill that need based on my interaction with the currents

Many thanks,

BrotherM

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Congrats, though I'm sure most of us would appreciate it if you could elucidate a tad on the processes you employed in your "wierd" magic.

[Radiant Star]

This is great! I love good happy news :D

I know someone that would be very interested to know how that might be done, maybe he will drop by here sometime.

I myself did some half-hearted magick a year ago and won a very small amount on the lottery a couple of times in a short space of time, so definitely possible.

In Lisiewski's book (I think its him) he said that he often had unintended consquences that weren't so pleasant after some of his more successful ventures but overall, after the crises were overcome, he did feel that it was beneficial, or that is the way I read it anyway.

[BrotherM]

more important than the result, I learnt a huge amount about myself and also about magick, which is in many ways more meaningful than the money.

What I did, I just openned myself to the currents and expressed my need. I asked that I be heard, I was humble but softly persistent. Eventually, I felt the universe (my definition of the universe, so the combination of all currents, unity, the divine etc) answer and then I stopped and forgot about it. Then weird things started to happen. There was no mumbo-jumbo, no spirits, no spells, just ... errr, magick

This was a very personal experience, it was about me, my path and how I fit into that which already is. I suspect that the concept may be useful to others, but specifics probably are not.

BrotherM

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Actually I think that that's a sufficiently detailed description of the process you employed. Cheers. :yes:

[Radiant Star]

Wonderful explanation BrotherM, so intentional.

[Fio Praeter Humanus]

What I did, I just openned myself to the currents and expressed my need. I asked that I be heard, I was humble but softly persistent.

So you prayed for it huh? ;)
You know my method for information. Weird but works...

[BrotherM]

hey guys, wow, thanks for the supportive comments, I was worried about posting this as it is so personal.

Bro Nero, I suppose you could call it praying, but prayer without words...

BrotherM

[Napsteria]

Glad you got your cash. :)

This weekend I by luck happened to live in a more than twice as big apartment with much better refurnishing and kitchen stuff and superb location.. so I got some inspiration to actually either get some serious cash input to buy a bigger place or at least "pimp my place" up a bit.. won't need THAT much cash for that... just some time and energy. Anyway... it was a true "NEAR WEALTH" experience. :)

You know my method for information. Weird but works...

That wasn't obscure at all. :)

[fr.novumorganum]

hey great post...and thanks for the update.


sounds to me like the heart of the magick and matter;)

[Anibis]

Very cool. That's the way I have found things to work as well... Got time for a pint while I'm in London on the 15th/16th?
-A-

[BrotherM]

Ah dude, I would love to but I am in Scotland driving about (you pick the one week a year I actually don't get leave cancelled!). Any other time you are down here and it's on ( my treat!)

Something that I am having a hard time coming to terms with is that what I did was more Alchemy than magick. I am not that sophisticated, but I never heard of practical Alchemy before!!!

BrotherM

[Frater SI]

Hey Dude I had no doubt you would pull it off ..

[Fio Praeter Humanus]

Bro Nero, I suppose you could call it praying, but prayer without words...

From my own work of revelations the method is as follows:
"He tells me to be silent and become still. To prate, babble and to pray!"

First you must operate from a point of peace, the mind and body must be silent and still, directed toward the single goal.

The method of communication begins as foolish and irrelevant chatter, rapidly and incessantly until the initial dependence upon words and language is broken down and they fade away resulting in utter meaningless sounds, an incoherent chaotic force that develops into a directed will of focus, or true prayer.

Similar to applying radiation to particles of light, they move rapidly about in flux until they achieve the energy state to focus into a laser beam.

[Fio Praeter Humanus]

No one might care but it is interesting to note that in English Qabalah

"He tells me to be silent and become still." = 2124 as does, Dung it about with Enginery of War.

"To prate, babble and to pray!" = 1398 or, Logos of Ra-Hoor-Khuit, Know-Dare-Will-Be Silent, and Philosopher's Stone.

[fr.novumorganum]

very interesting finds Nero.

[BrotherM]

I found the last one very insightful