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m1thr0s
05-10-2007, 06:33 PM
In defining the Left Hand Path to begin with we rejected the more recent Western definition of the term as superficial and predjudicial and adopted instead the much older Eastern definition, rooted in the tantric terms dakshinachara and vamachara, or right-hand-path & left-hand-path, respectively. Even the Eastern definition becomes entangled in internal contradictions if we attempt the most literal possible accounting of these terms, so that even from this stronger starting point we are forced to summarize their generalized intent and base our (hopefully) more reliable definition upon this summary.

The debate over an exacting definition of the terms left-hand-path and right-hand-path has been going on for years and it is possible that it will never be satisfactorily resolved. We are using it on these forums to indicate two fundamentally different approaches to "occult" knowledge itself, which I take to be the same as "gnosis". On the one side we have have an approach that is content to embrace and even rely upon "belief" or "faith" in some guiding higher force or power as embodied in some form or another of "traditional" teachings. On the other we have an approach that is more intrinsically scientific in nature and generally rejects "belief" or "faith" as unreliable and prefers instead to rely more upon first-hand observation, demonstrable proofs and experimental method.

Alchemy has been deemed to be more indicative of the latter of these two approaches insofar as we might generalize the matter, but since the terms we are using are generalized terms to begin with, it is appropriate in that context to link Alchemy to the Left-Hand-Path. Viewing Alchemy as the forerunner of Modern Science, from which nearly all of its underscoring assumptions derive, it is a relatively easy task to imagine that between Alchemy and Religion (for instance), Alchemy would clearly be the more skeptical and results-oriented approach to higher knowledge itself.

None of this necessarily says anything of Alchemy as a spiritual path as understood and practised by individuals themselves. It is perfectly possible to be an Alchemist and still divorce oneself from the so-called Left-Hand-Path, perhaps viewing alchemical postulates and principles themselves as a kind of doctrine as "believable" as anything else offered anywhere within the confines of religion. While this may be true on a philosophical level, it is not especially defensible when the matter turns to methodology, and it is this difference of methodology that is of special interest to us here in these immediate discussion forums.

So it suits our purposes here to class Alchemy as a Left-Hand-Path methodology, which I might have simply said to begin with, but I wanted to at least try to explain why that might be and not just toss it out there on a kind of take-it-or-leave-it basis. I have never really been all that comfortable with either of these terms to begin with since we are dealing in a very generalized sort of language that easily polarizes people to no particular avail. But there are certain practical considerations that get involved as well and these don't seem to be vanishing any time soon, so I have finally relented to use these terms despite their volatile natures.

m1thr0s

Naomi
05-11-2007, 12:26 PM
That was very interesting m1thr0s. Thank you.

The Tengu
05-11-2007, 08:49 PM
That is exactly why I hate black and white classifications for complex issues. (And everything is a complex issue!)

Remember when you had to pick from the following?

RACE
[ ] White
[ ] Black
[ ] Other

:o_O:

m1thr0s
05-11-2007, 09:56 PM
In the context we are using the terms here, it would probably be fair to say we are approaching the ideas of left & right "hands" more along the lines of left & right "hemispheres" of the brain itself. It is also true that there are some generalizations that seem to hold more weight than others with respect to these different approaches to gnosis. But since either "hand" ultimately reveres the "balancing of opposites" anyway, it gets pretty complicated pretty quick. I sometimes refer to this whole distinction as a "term of inconvenience", which can actually serve a limited purpose so long as you don't get too "fundy" about the whole thing...

Profiling of any kind is not only distasteful...but is almost always flat-out stupid as well...

m1thr0s

Darin Hamel
05-12-2007, 12:25 AM
One thing I have noticed is that if you get someone on the left hand path to define left and right, the right hander wont agree and vis versa.

m1thr0s
05-12-2007, 02:23 AM
right...(or should I say left)...that's the whole problem with stigmatic definitions to begin with. They're inherently divisive and no one wants to be defined in a 2nd Best sort of light!

My feeling is that the terminology itself is to blame...that these things have been so poorly defined that they don't actually fit anybody very well. The problem we run into is that there remains some kind of underlying truth to the basic distinction (again like left and right brain hemispheres). Otherwise the whole thing would just up and blow away in the wind. But this doesn't seem to happen. Eventually somebody has to brave a more exacting sort of definition or we all just need to forget about the lingo altogether...

I am reasonably at peace with being a LHP practitioner by my own definition, but my own definition allows me to integrate a certain amount of RHP methodology as needed, so I am not divided against myself in this respect. It's more a question of emphasis for me, like saying I am better at crunching numbers than I am at public speaking or whatever... I feel like that gives me a working advantage not shared by everyone defining themselves as LHP people...

m1thr0s

Darin Hamel
05-12-2007, 06:40 AM
Perhaps it is a matter for the lesser mysteries and the duality inherent in our world. I wonder if these distinctions exist in the greater mysteries.

I consider myself RHP and like you I am at peace with it by my own definition too. I practice Taoist alchemy but I always thought of it as a middle pillar "neutral" practice. My mantra (Rosary) practice has nothing to do with faith or belief but entrainment with the higher planes and going to Mass is like a lesson in advanced alchemy itself, if you understand the symbolism.

Also over the years I have seen myself jump from side to side on the tree. Some years I practice more of the intellectual/will/power aspects and other more of the worshipping/compassion/love side. By worship I dont mean kissing Gods butt to get into heaven but the emulation/imitation of my diety (Christ) to create in me a connection to the divine archtype I most closely identify with through ritual.

m1thr0s
05-12-2007, 06:57 AM
That certainly must be the case Darin. And really, if nothing else, these are simple matters of strength in action. Show me any athlete who favors one side too much over the other and I'll show you a mediocre athlete at best, if not a cripple in the making. It is really not so different with the mind, or the heart, or the will...

m1thr0s

Copuldaemon
07-19-2007, 02:42 PM
hey m1th, I've read this and my thoughts on the subject as a whole is, why does it even matter. Yes, the terminology of R vs. L is always complicated when looking at the variables in depth but to keep it simpler, I say that such definitions are open for interpretation, until the core intent of an operation is desired and so methology follows.

Ci Celli Ddu
07-22-2007, 11:17 AM
On a historical note, before we discovered the magnetic poles (ie until modern times) we in the northern hemisphere used to orientate ourselves by facing the East, where the Sun rises and the day begins. As a result the right hand is the side that faces the South and the path of the Sun across the sky, whereas the left hand faces the sunless North. This is where the concept of right=good and left=bad begins, and is also why the word "sinister" came to mean the thing that it now does.

m1thr0s
07-22-2007, 11:40 AM
ornate thought constructs rooted in simple physics...what a wind-up monkey-toy this human species really is at times...

I agree that the whole left-right distinction is not terribly productive or logically defensible in the longrun. It's more about what is conventional vs reactive. As long as "right-hand" people continue to make a big production over their right-handness..."left-hand" people are going to feel obliged to do the same and so on.

Soon it will all boil down to fingers I am sure and we will be debating whether or not witchcraft properly belongs to the pinky, ring, middle, index or thumb...

m1thr0s

Kuroyagi
07-22-2007, 11:44 AM
:laugh: thats so funny cause true...maybe next are finger nails and hairs that one could again split!

m1thr0s
07-22-2007, 12:00 PM
Maybe I should get the jump on Thumbnail Alchemy...hehe...

m1thr0s

Naomi
07-22-2007, 12:41 PM
If you cut off your right or left hand you'd still be damn screwed either way.

Templa
02-17-2008, 06:05 PM
Personally I find the terms lhp and rhp more useful for defining the goal rather than the method.

Left hand path is the path of the Qliphoth towards the final liberation from YHVH, and the Right hand path is road to becoming the sinless man as God intended, seen through the eyes of the Cabbalist.
Left hand path is when Shakti, as Kali, triumphs over Maya for the tantric, and rhp the opposite.

What we see here in most traditions, is that lhp values liberation from and rhp unity with creation/demiurge/maya.

Feel free to correct me.

deviadah
08-16-2008, 10:11 PM
Personally any form of dichotomy is unsettling!

From my angle all things are parts of the same thing... we just happened to cut it all up. I think this is all due to our bad usage of the human brain. We can't see BIG pictures... we need to scale everything down... like drawing borders all over the planet!

I am not innocent, but at least aware... divide to conquer... more divide to enslave...

Even if we look at Alchemy from the most common angle; that it is about creating gold - physical or spiritual - then it fits with the notion of LEFT! As it is all about creating a superior state rather than earning it...

I think the notion of the Lost Speech is the answer to the problems of genres within the fields of esoteric gnosis!

:cool: