Origins of the Swastika...

[m1thr0s]

Note: this is a spin-off from another topic here (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=1600).

We have been discussing similarities between Ezekiel's Wheel and the Yung-Drung illustrated here:

http://abrahadabra.com/images/yungdrung.gif

Conversation is turning in the direction of the roots of the Swastika itself. Hopefully Ratatosk will join in as he has a lot of interesting information about this as well from areas I am not as versed in...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I want to show you another very important connection on this symbol I think you will want to know. The ramifications of this are really quite startling. This has to do with the Lo Shu Diagram from ancient China, around which the entire I Ching System of Hexagrams are constructed. It also stands central to the 729 ternary hexagrams of the Tai Hsuan Ching.

Yung-Drung Deiseil

http://abrahadabra.com/images/yungdrung.dei.jpg

Yung-Drung Widdershins

http://abrahadabra.com/images/yungdrung.wid.jpg
This is a magickal square arrangement in which all the arms add up to 25 no matter how you arrange them. I am not sure why this pattern appears to have not been publicly released before. I discovered it quite by accident in a conversation I was having with Ratatosk right here on these forums... Adding the arms together = 50, a venerated number in the I Ching and also the number of letters in Sanskrit.

This is a very important connection and one I have only just begun to really explore personally... A Taoist Alchemist needs to be aware of this since there is a whole system of elements corresponding to it via the ternary bigrams. It also corresponds directly to the *Nine Chambers* of Qabbalah...

m1thr0s

[Darin Hamel]

http://murraycreek.net/return/book1/part1/FIG01.GIF http://murraycreek.net/return/book1/returngarden1.htm

[MythMath]

In the spirit of swastika thread spin-offs,
here's Ratatosk's past thread on the topic:

http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=825&highlight=swastika

And the relevant stuff in this thread:

http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=1059&page=7

[Naomi]

If you approach the negative space around the swastika you'll also notice that there are

4 L turns (L shapes)

4 |_|, V or U turns

8 mini squares 4 of which are located within the central square, around number 5, or the pentacle (POW!)

[m1thr0s]

Thanks MythMath...I went looking for that thread and somehow couldn't find it...freaking migraine or something...messing with my search function...

Lots of ground covered in that thread...kinda fell apart at the end I guess...

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

I should probably clarify something here:

As a matter of form, the original Lo Shu Diagram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lo_Shu_Square) was expressed in a dot sequence:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/Luo4shu1.jpg

which then yields this version of the Lo Shu Magic Square:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/MagicSquare-LoShu.png (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/MagicSquare-LoShu.png)

...inverse to what I have set forth above. This is actually for a reason (well, several reasons...) none of which are important to this discussion. It is only important to recognize that the Swastika sigil is clearly identifyable in the Lo Shu Diagram no matter how you position it. It's a function of the numbers themselves and how they align to each other...

What it all means is a very long explanation...it means a lot though...that this would be hiding there all the time (in plain view) is actually rather mind-boggling. I showed this to an associate of mine yesterday who nearly dropped his teeth and demanded that I must publish this information at once!

For those in the know regarding the Lo Shu...it's kind of a big deal...it's unveiling important data regarding the "spiral force" so integral to tantricism, mysticism, magick and also taoism generally, the tao being said to be such a force...or perhaps "not-force" would be a little more accurate...something like the idea of morphogenetic "inertia"...not exactly moving as we know it, yet cyclical in nature such that all things conform to its "principle", yet not so much its "force" per se...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

What it all means is a very long explanation...

For those in the know regarding the Lo Shu...it's kind of a big deal...it's unveiling important data regarding the "spiral force" so integral to tantricism, mysticism, magick and also taoism generally, the tao being said to be such a force...or perhaps "not-force" would be a little more accurate...something like the idea of morphogenetic "inertia"...not exactly moving as we know it, yet cyclical in nature such that all things conform to its "principle", yet not so much its "force" per se...

Then what happened...?

[m1thr0s]

Then what happened...?
rofl...you're incorrigible MM... I will almost certainly launch an article on all of this as it pertains to Trigrammal Field Theory in the Mutational Alchemy forum in not too long a time. I need to mull over a few important bits first. This is a powerful and startling thing to me personally because it altogether validates everything I have been doing in Trigrammal Field Theory to date. It's as though I was seeing without seeing this whole thing from the start because I spent many long hours in tantric contemplation with the Lo Shu before beginning to chart out field theory at all. It's been pretty much my Emerald Tablet...the foundation stone upon which everything else has been built. All the hexagrammal fields follow this standard to the letter, yet only now, some 30 years later, am I clearly seeing this vital piece of technical information...

Too weird for words...but good...it's all good news...

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

Note: we mustn't neglect Hinduism in this particular search. The Swastika is all over the map in Hinduism. Many of the most important godforms carry it somewhere on their person. It has for a very long time been representative of the power of the gods themselves...

Hitler may have done more damage than even he ever dreamed possible since now we have millions of self-righteous americanized nazis ready to kill at the sight of this symbol for no other reason than the fact that it has been villainized...so what does this really mean to people who cling to Ignorance? It means it's ok to spew all their pent-up bile on this newly sanctioned "devil". Never mind the facts...the facts never mattered to these people.

So Hitler the hate monger lives on in the same damn moronic mentality that put him in power to begin with.

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

I am having a difficult time finding any image of Ezekiel's Wheel that actually very clearly resembles the Swastika. If anybody can produce one I would love to see this. Most of them look more like Astrological Wheels of one sort or another...

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

Aha!!!

It has at least been observed by a few weirdos out there...

Check out this cat's site: http://www.sacredscience.com/archive/PetrusDiagrams.htm

scroll down a notch...

I need to have lunch with this person I think...

m1thr0s

[Dragon]

The problem is the damn thing is ubiquitous, I mean we see migrations sure, but it evolved on its own in several regions as well...it's like a spiral or a star, it's an image that just springs forth out of the well; The old solar clock/basket weave image. Most examples are from the bronze and iron ages, although at this point it seems that the earliest physical specimens we have came out of digs in Iran and Armenia from the Neolithic Period 5000-7000 b.c....We'll see what else develops.

~D~

[Talkingfox]

Would that I knew the translation of the symbol as it was used in the Vinca script (5th millenium BCE) and the Early Russian Steppe stuff...

[Dragon]

yeah..came across that one as well...hammering at it.

[Talkingfox]

yeah..came across that one as well...hammering at it.


Marija Gumbatas seems to be the unofficial expert on that stuff

[m1thr0s]

The problem is the damn thing is ubiquitous, I mean we see migrations sure, but it evolved on its own in several regions as well...it's like a spiral or a star, it's an image that just springs forth out of the well; The old solar clock/basket weave image. Most examples are from the bronze and iron ages, although at this point it seems that the earliest physical specimens we have came out of digs in Iran and Armenia from the Neolithic Period 5000-7000 b.c....We'll see what else develops.

I would have to agree...we may never actually get to an exact point of origin...this will draw us easily into prehistoric Shamanic stuff before we're done. But it is still significant to ascertain where it might have figured especially prominently, and as much as possible...why.

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

This is kinda cute:

http://www.mysteriousworld.com/Content/Images/Journal/2003/Summer/Giants/Swastika-SpiroMound.gif

site is awful though...doesn't warrant a link...

m1thr0s

[Dragon]

Based on the data before me now, I would guess at this point that it was a solar/seasonal clock and calender. Used by agricultural societies.

First guess. I'll see what the research presents.

~D~

[m1thr0s]

There are several possible ways of approaching this. If we only look to the geometry itself we may net no more than the axis/circle generally will yield. I am a lot more encouraged to find it standing strong in the Lo Shu itself since here we are dealing with a mathematical principle. It is something akin to the Lightning Bolts to the Tree of Life, save operating at even higher altitudes than this...more primal even that the ToL itself which actually stands down from this *first principle*. So that's a whole other can-o-worms really... Not just your garden variety basket-weave pattern in that case...

It would be interesting to know why Hinduism venerated this symbol for instance. It is unlikely that it was just some random ornament...

edit: The whole idea of *planetary seals* comes to mind here for instance. Since the Lo Shu Square is also the Key of Saturn (aka Kamea of Saturn, Qamea of Saturn, etc), it is no great stretch to consider the Swastika the heir-apparent Planetary Seal of Saturn as well. Certainly one of them at least and very possibly the most potent of all identifiable combinations... It's simplicity affords it a profound rank and where that simplicity is embedded in mathematical principle...well...that makes it a definite force to be reckoned with under any circumstances...Assign that puppy a word of power and you've got a shotgun there may be no blocking!

...and suddenly our humble little basket just went freaking nuclear!...:mlaugh:

edit2: The number 25 corresponds to the Key of Mars which should also be considered, but perhaps more sobering is the fact that the number 50 = Nun = Death in many Tarot systems. Considering 50's other assorted qualifications, we might want to think about this. Is the Swastika also some kind of Key of Death? Does it perhaps have some magickal power in relation to Death? Is it Death's own Master Key? These are also things to be carefully scrutinized.

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

Interesting little factoid...

http://hindutempleofflorida.org/articles/swastika_symbol.jpg (http://hindutempleofflorida.org/universe.php)

In Hinduism, Swastika is a very sacred symbol. It is revered by hindus and ranks second to "AUM" in its significance. The word Swastika in Sanskrit (an ancient language), is normally believed to be an amalgam of the words Su and Asati. Su means 'good' and Asati meant 'to exist'.

As per Sanskrit grammar the words Su and Asati when amalgamated into one word become Swasti and ka is just a noun ending. The literal meaning of the term Swastika would be 'let good-prevail'.

Swastika is regarded as a divine sign by Hindus. Since the word swastika means auspicious in the Sanskrit language and hence is used to symbolize the welcoming of auspiciousness and driving away evils. The symbol also represents the changing of the universe around the unchanging nature of God.

A must for all religious celebrations and festivals, Swastika symbolizes the eternal nature of the Brahman(the formless god) for it points in all directions, thus representing the omnipresence of the Absolute god.

Also, in Sanskrit the term Swasta means calm or peaceful. Thus the term and concept of Swastika might as well be a derivation of the name of a defensive structure which due to its impregnable character was looked upon as a good habitation. In ancient times forts were built in the shape of a grid resembling the Swastika, for defensive purposes. In the conventional type of a fort, the fall of one of the gates to the attacking army would lead to the Enemy's pouring into the fort. But under the Swastika grids fall of one of the four gates could still keep, at least three-fourths of the fort safe. Under such an arrangement it was difficult for an enemy to storm into all parts of the fort simultaneously. . For its protective power, may be this shape began to be sanctified in the later years.

m1thr0s

[Darin Hamel]

This is from a Christian prophecy site. I also found references to the swastika being the "Mind Seal" in the Taoist alchemy. Now I found this place with references to the swastika as a "seal" on them head. I cant tell if its good or bad though. It's heavily biased so if your anti-Christian take a deep breath before you go to this fundy site.

This sign - the swastika [http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/images/ArticleImages/Swastika.gif], or hooked cross - is universally referred to as "the earliest known symbol." A note in the Encyclopedia Americana is of great interest:

"[The swastika] is a symbol of the sun in the nature-religions of the Aryan races from Scandinavia to Persia and India; and similar devices occur in monumental remains of the Mexicans and Peruvians, and on objects exhumed from prehistoric burial grounds within the limits of the United States. The swastika consists of a Greek cross, either enclosed in a circle, the circumference of which passes through its extremities [such as http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/images/ArticleImages/CrossinCircle.gif]; or with its arms bent back thus to form the [http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/images/ArticleImages/Swastika.gif] swastika. It is found invariably associated with the worship of the Aryan sun-gods (Apollo, Odin) and is believed to represent the sun. The swastika was adopted as the German national symbol by the Nazis."

http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/articledetail.asp?Article_ID=33

I wish I would have saved all my research but I never thought I would be sharing my ideas with anyone.

[Naomi]

SO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebe_%28moon%29) how's the migraine?:twub:

[Darin Hamel]

Dang, I am one of the bad guys! I was "sealed" with this sign in 1999. Saw it burning in my brain in a kundalini rising (rapture) vision.

Doh!
The rest of the story...

Sealed Until the Day

Thus, the battle rages on. One side is sealed with the cross, the http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/images/HebrewLetters/Tahv.JPG tahv of truth and perfection in Christ. The other is marked by the bent cross [http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/images/ArticleImages/Swastika.gif] of an ancient and corrupt culture. In Ephesians 4:17-19, Paul writes of their corruption:

"This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
"Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
"Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness."

A few verses later, he assures the faithful that they are, indeed, sealed by the action of God's Holy Spirit:
"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption" (Ephesians 4:30).

In some way that is instantly visible to the Lord, we carry the mark of the cross. Once placed, it can never be removed. In the ancient practice of sealing, something is fastened with a seal to prevent it from being moved from one position to another. It is the earliest method of assuring that one's property is marked. The seal was also traditionally engraved with a mark or design that spoke of the owner.
It has been said that, as believers, we are impressed with the signet of the Lord, Himself. We bear the mark of ownership.
http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/articledetail.asp?Article_ID=33

[Darin Hamel]

From a Theosophical site comparing Ezekiels wheels with the swastika.
http://teozofija.info/Coon_Seal.htm
Swastika
The Swastika occupies a position in the Theosophical Seal within the small circle at the top where the serpent swallows its tail. Upon a blue background it presents at first sight an appearance of serene tranquillity; yet after a few moments' contemplation upon its form and implied motion,it is found to be the center and source of ceaseless and untiring activity. Of all of the symbols comprising the Seal,the swastika is the only one whose special characteristic is motion. Others express states of being: the relationship between spirit and matter; the nature of man and his relationship with God; the soul and its path to perfection; God as Eternal, Infinite Spirit; God manifestation as the "Word made flesh". The swastika is the sign of God as the Divine Creative Fire in the Chaldean Book of Numbers, 'which striketh sparks from the flint' (Space), those sparks becoming Worlds. This Divine Hammer has been "degraded into the mallet or gavel " of Masonry where its power is even there "sufficient to dissipate the darkness".

The cross expresses the characteristics of Sacrifice, Truth, Law, Righteousness, Experience, Balance and Stability. The swastika expresses Courage, Daring, Venturesomeness, Lawfulness, Salvation and Well-being. Whether we think of those whirling vortices of force which make up the microscopic atom; the seven forces centers (Called Chakras) of the physical body which control its marvellous processes of growth and evolution; or macrocosmic revolution of planets around a central sun (the "wheels within wheels" of Ezekiel and Revelation) the Swastika or Whirling Cross is universal symbol. The Swastika is symbol of the Creative Fire of the Third Logos,the Holy Ghost or Brahma. It is the emblem of the activity of Fohat, of a living, moving, evolving unit of life, be that unit an atom or a solar system. It is that creative fire within all living things ,which breaks through every barrier and limitation to build anew and nearer to the likeness of its destined goal.In the mind of man it is the fire which makes him a creator in art, in literature, in music,mechanics,healing and indeed every phase of human activity. It is the fire within his own being which urges and torments him to become a god.

[Darin Hamel]

Oh, I forgot the place I blatently stole from for my past sig.
http://www.indiayogi.com/kundalini/symbols.asp
Fig. 3
The vibrations of the Ajna chakra throw the image of Swastika in the colour of the elements. Lansdowne Zachary F. in his book The Chakras and Esoteric Healing tells us: "The swastika corresponds to the final stage in which the chakra is active, developed, opened, and energized by awakened Kundalini…. This symbol represents the completion of evolution for that chakra." In the Hindu religion this symbol represents the sun and is also used as a symbol on doors or walls to ward off evil.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b189/DairnHamel/art9_3_b.jpg

[m1thr0s]

It is the fire within his own being which urges and torments him to become a god.lol...that's pretty funny actually...The Holy Spirit...humankind's constant tormentor! I like that...

m1thr0s

[Darin Hamel]

Drats! Anyway the picture that I can no longer find was an old Masonic letter refering to the swastika as the Cross of the Magi.
Any body a mason and/or know about the Cross of the Magi?

[m1thr0s]

some of these images appear to not be getting through Darin. You can upload to Zoints and link from there if you like (just so you know)...

m1thr0s

[Darin Hamel]

http://www.zayra.de/soulcom/margi/grailheartspin.gif

[Darin Hamel]

The Above Animation:Understanding the 3D Origin of Swaztika:
CHARGE COMPRESSION into the GRAIL (fractality).. the true geometry of the sacred (waves which by becoming compressible become sustainable).

388

http://www.zayra.de/soulcom/grail.html

[m1thr0s]

ouch...that hurts my head...let's try to keep some of these bigger ones confined to thumbnails please...

just right-click the image and get its url...then you can enter that in the url upload field...

I'll do the one above so you can see...

occasionally they come in at different sizes than originally displayed. This is because some jerk-off web designer who doesn't know his oatmeal from his shit is using html to artificially expand the image...not much we can do about that.

I'm familiar with Dan Winter's stuff. I also think the guy is about as crazy as a goat on meth.
Still, he's got a lot of interesting bits and pieces...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/MythMath/4circlesSEQ4.jpg

This image is from a series that
starts at the bottom of this page:
http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=1563&page=3

[m1thr0s]

Very powerful series you've got cooking MythMath!

I think it's fairly evident that the Swastika finds its mathematical basis in Tetragrammaton itself and lest we confuse the 4/5-Elemental Paradigm with Western Traditions alone, it is important to draw attention to such things as the Four Principal Bigrams (or Bigrammaton) of I Ching philosophy which actually give us a mathematical First Principle that cannot be so easily dismissed as subjective mental meanderings.

And of course, as usual, we find the Tetractys complicit in this as well...

here's one of the simplest renditions I have seen...again from the Bon...

http://bon.newz.ru/pics/gal3/yungdrung_nowe.jpg

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

Yeah, I was thinking of this circular Xiantian graph:

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/MythMath/XiantianCircle.jpg

http://www.biroco.com/yijing/xiantianstar.htm

[m1thr0s]

As near as I can tell, the swastika amounts to a principle of unity that runs through all magickal squares, with particular relevance to odd numbered magickal squares. A few examples:

3x3 Magickal Square

http://abrahadabra.com/images/swastika.3x3.jpg

5x5 Magickal Square

http://abrahadabra.com/images/swastika.5x5.jpg

7x7 Magickal Square

http://abrahadabra.com/images/swastika.7x7.jpg

9x9 Magickal Square

http://abrahadabra.com/images/swastika.9x9.jpg

In all cases the swastika numerates mean x squares covered, so in the 3x3 grid we get 5 (mean) x 5 (squares covered) = 25. In the 5x5 grid we get 13 (mean) x 9 (squares covered) = 117. In the 7x7 grid we get 25 (mean) x 13 (squares covered) = 325. In the 9x9 grid we get 41 (mean) x 17 (squares covered) = 697, and so on. The principle itself needn't extend all the way out to outer corners to work either and (of course) works the same in either direction.

I haven't looked at even numbered magickal squares yet but we probably get something similar with the exception that we won't be crossing a central mean number. But the swastika itself is a bona fide principle of balance & unity within any traditional magickal square configuration from what I can determine thus far.

This may prove a little disturbing to those who hope to relegate the symbol and its meaning to adolf f*cking hitler. The bottom line here is...you're never going to be rid of this symbol for as long as this universe remains mathematically consistent!

m1thr0s

[Ratatosk]

That is somewhere in the 'nifty' ballpark, I would surmise. :laugh:

[m1thr0s]

That is somewhere in the 'nifty' ballpark, I would surmise. :laugh:
yeah. I think so. And I haven't even started in on my trigrammal fields rant yet but the ramifications there are staggering.
This is a big deal. This is a legitimately universal sort of principle going on here...

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

Here's a sneak peak at evens, although I may not pursue them at length since they are a little boring relative to odds: That perception may change though...they are simply not as in-your-face flashy I think...

4x4 Magickal Square

http://abrahadabra.com/images/swastika.4x4.jpg

The unification principle here is not going to be as straight-forward since we have no central mean to build around. Here we are looking at the mean principle differently, typically the sum of the 4 numbers converging at center = 34. If we only look at polar opposites that number is 17.

What the swastika appears to be doing above is mirroring that number as a consequence of adding both arms together and dividing by 3...so 51 + 51 = 102 / 3 = 34. If we take only one arm (51) / 3 = 17. Whether or not that pattern holds up with other squares still needs to be verified.

Minimally, it is still grouping even squares into 4 equal parts, in the above instance all adding to the same number as our 4 most central numbers (=34). I think that special properties will vary more in evens...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

Pretty darn cool... :cool:

[MythMath]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/MythMath/4circlesSQUAREDcopy.jpg
Reminiscent of the Tangram
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangram

[m1thr0s]

6x6 Magickal Square

http://abrahadabra.com/images/swastika.6x6.jpg

Evens are proving to be very different than odds. I expected the Key of Sol to be a lot clearer than it seems to be. The only really outstanding thing I can find on this one so far is that the combined total on both arms = 365 (widdershins only). To get 365 in both directions you'll have to flip the table around backwards for the deiseil half...

http://abrahadabra.com/images/swastika.6x6.rev.jpg

Not insignificant by any means but it seems as though just about everything else is totally chaotic (possibly perfectly appropriate in this case)...

It's also important to bear in mind that there are more than one way to arrive at magickal square arrangements. It's possible that there is a better arrangement out there someplace for Sol...

note: there may be something amiss with the traditional Key of Sol. I'm not sure yet. It appears to be the only Key that doesn't seem to yield a perfect balance of opposites in the Swastika. From an occult perspective that's not such a great thing but it may be unavoidable...needs additional research...

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Adding the line on the left side:

6+7+9=32

6+7+9+18+25+36=111

Right side:

1+30+24+13+12+31=111

Or whatever. Are they suppose to do that? Oh duh, they are hahaha. Ok ok starting over....


The evens are female...the odds are male. Thus the evens are not going to be symmetrical. If you had the swastika spinning maybe it would be more useful. Or make a cube.

I've only looked at this for a few secs here, so I will attempt to grasp this further, but it is very complicated, and the sea of numbers is not my native habitat.

Edit:

Ok add the central numbers on the inside edge of each arm

= 93

edit:

well thats kind of retarded, that made sense to me at the time when I was sitting here clicking on my calculator but now I can't seem to remember which pattern of arms I was clicking on to get that.

haha I give up...this is giving me a headache :goes back to painting:: Good luck m1....


hmm ok U-turn on the lower right on the inside edge gives 97, which is anarchy and valkyrie in the new aeon english qabala...uh what Gematria language are you using? I use 97 in one of my internet screen names so it's sort of interesting to me.

inside of the L-turn on the lower left 121 = uh.... apocalypse in the NAEQ....

U turn there is 164....NAEQ: "father of lies", infinite...

it's, you know, interesting. I'm really into the gematria stuff...

[m1thr0s]

yes, naomi. This is a regular feature of magickal squares themselves and the Key of Sol is supposed to = 111 vertically, horizontally and diagonally. add any 6 columns or rows (ie 111 x 6) = 666

that's all standard stuff. The swastika counts are not...

I think 8x8 will yield a little better clarity. I sort of suspected odd numbered squares would be the least confusing...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

Here's my little Bon Mot:

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/MythMath/magicsquare4.jpg

I've tried the math and it doesn't seem to work at all,
but I thought that this approach might trigger something...

Blue Arm/Red Arm


And below, the 'LoShu arrangement' of the Key

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/MythMath/magicsquare2.jpg

[Naomi]

Hey that looks nice and complicated MythMath, I think I'll go make some coffee and drop off the face of the earth for a couple of weeks.:o_O:

lol seriously though...can I use NAEQ to analyze these or is that pointless?

[MythMath]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/MythMath/magicsquare6.jpg

[m1thr0s]

There are a lot of additional 6x6 internal patterns to consider MM. Here we are really only just touching on the most conventional pattern within the occult community at large. If you start scouring math sites you'll find hundreds and even thousands of 6x6 variants, so I'm not really worried about it or anything. Pretty much any way you can get 365 on the Key of Sol is a big deal...just so long as you don't have to actually break the damn thing to make it fit...

Flipping the table backwards is a small price to pay and has a lot of validation in other ways (it's a standard talismanic practise etc). I'm only a little surprized not to find a lot more blatant symmetries going on with Sol...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

I found this folio page with some unique images:
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-docs/The_Backwards_Swastika_Graphics_Folio.htm

Warning: The source site appeared to be pro-neo-nazi...
________________________________

I also just saw this rerun at 2am:
http://www.startrek.com/imageuploads/200303/tos-052-kirk--isak--spock-and/320x240.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterns_of_Force_%28TOS_episode%29

[m1thr0s]

interesting collection. at the level of the geometry alone it's kind of a no-brainer I think and I don't get too worked up about any of that...standard xy axis stuff really and all very rudimentary so far as that goes. the magickal square stuff is different...that's really got my interest piqued for now. that's something going on at a much higher level of functionality, yet, as usual, I don't think I've ever seen anybody discussing it anywhere...

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

8x8 Magickal Square

http://abrahadabra.com/images/swastika.8x8.jpg

Whereas the 6x6 Magickal Square would seem to be all about Chaos, the 8x8 Magickal Square returns us to a condition of perfect balance & equilibrium. Here the Arms of the swastika all add to 455 running in either directions. Numbers in the Key of Mercury are all balanced opposites adding to 65 and 455 = 7 x 65. The arms of the swastika cover 14 squares each and their combined total = 910 = 14 x 65. All in all this key is all about balanced opposites. There are some other curious numerical properties here. I haven't explored it all. 455 is also evenly divisible by 13, ie, 13 x 5 = 65. 13 x 35 = 455. 13 x 70 = 910...

I've got just one more I want to look at here and then I'll let this rest a bit. I think it is useful to at least look at those squares that have an immediate relevance to the Tree of Life so I'll return in a bit to look at the 10x10 Magickal Square.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Haha! Nazi Spock!!!

Well, you could start calling them shuriken to avoid all of this nazi biznazz....
399

The swastika phobia is just in the Western world...outside of Europe and North America - nobody cares about WWII or Hitler hysteria.

This is all very interesting M and M&M.

[Dragon]

I found this.

http://perso.orange.fr/archeometrie/swastika.htm

I understand at core the symbol just by it's form as to it's function geometrically/magickally. It's a major key to be sure.

I am fascinated by why and where it erupted out of us in history; and how many variants have shown up.


Great thread guys.

~D~

[m1thr0s]

10 x 10 Magickal Square

http://abrahadabra.com/images/swastika.10x10.jpg

This is my final installment on this series of magickal squares. Here again we find the swastika acting as a symbol of balance & unity within the 10 x 10 grid. The arms balance out in this one to 1818 running in either directions.

The swastika itself presents us with a challenge with respect to the Key of Sol (6 x 6 magickal square). This is the only magickal square that appears to fail to meet specs as defined everywhere else and it is something that at least one of us should probably try to get to the bottom of. Ideally, we should get all the qualities we already get plus the additional attribute that the arms should balance out (preferably to 365) evenly in both directions. As it is, we get 365 running widdershins and 375 running deiseil. Something would appear to be amiss here that may have been overlooked.

We'll need somebody with pretty good programming skills to come up with a program that can check this (Ratatosk?). It is either a built in characteristic of that particular square or there is something wrong that we need to fix for ourselves and future generations. Anyone interested in tackling this is free to contact me concerning additional specifications.

m1thr0s

[Ratatosk]

Evens are proving to be very different than odds. I expected the Key of Sol to be a lot clearer than it seems to be. The only really outstanding thing I can find on this one so far is that the combined total on both arms = 365 (widdershins only). To get 365 in both directions you'll have to flip the table around backwards for the deiseil half...
-- snip --
It's also important to bear in mind that there are more than one way to arrive at magickal square arrangements. It's possible that there is a better arrangement out there someplace for Sol...Considering that there are are somewhere around 17 quadrillion [(1.7745 ± 0.0016) x 10^19 (http://mathworld.wolfram.com/MagicSquare.html?AX28349) (that's 17,229,000,000,000,000,000 to 17,761,000,000,000,000,000)] you ain't just woofin'!


note: there may be something amiss with the traditional Key of Sol. I'm not sure yet. It appears to be the only Key that doesn't seem to yield a perfect balance of opposites in the Swastika. From an occult perspective that's not such a great thing but it may be unavoidable...needs additional research...I'll see what I can come up with in Python - although with the HUGE number of possible squares it may take some time.

[m1thr0s]

I would think (or maybe just hope) that the parameters on the Swastika itself would narrow this down a bit. Of the 17 Quadrillion, there can't be that many that all add to 111 in horizontal, vertical and diagonal rows and of these there must be relatively few that will give us an even count on the swastika arms in both directions...

Although maybe the computer still has to run through that 17 Quadrillion to validate this...

Let me know if there is anything I can do Ratatosk...I'll be looking forward to seeing your results, assuming this doesn't blow out your machine...

m1thr0s

[Talkingfox]

***gets out the broom and prepares for shrapnel***

[m1thr0s]

well...I didn't anticipate it would be that involved.
millions of combinations I might have believed...quadrillions is a serious nutbuster...

In other news, Wiki has a pretty respectable article on Magic Squares (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_squares)

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

Speaking of Kolams:

The Kubera-Kolam is a floor painting used in India which is in the form of a magic square of order three.
It is essentially the same as the Lo Shu Square, but with 19 added to each number, giving a magic constant of 72.



{Nice numbers... :p }


Great wiki article, btw...

It's been updated and considerably expanded, since my last visit...

[m1thr0s]

rats...tried to display the so-called satanic magic square but the html won't take...

here's the screenshot (thanks MythMath)...

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/MythMath/MultimagicSquare.jpg

here's the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimagic_square

this is getting off into another topic though...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

Kachina swastika
{tourist model?}

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/MythMath/Kochinaswastikasmall.jpg

[MythMath]

http://www.sol.com.au/kor/kor_pix/12/SWASTIKA.JPG
http://www.sol.com.au/kor/kor_pix/12/Carbon_04.GIF
http://www.sol.com.au/kor/kor_pix/12/Carbon_02.GIF

http://www.sol.com.au/kor/11_02.htm

[Talkingfox]

A jeez MM...that's so pretty it made me tear up for a moment

[m1thr0s]

This all ties back into Trigrammal Field Theory in a big way so I will try to get to another article on all of that pretty soon.

As we are seeing elsewhere, even on a subatomic level, The 4=5 Elemental Universe model is not just some sort of mental phantom...it's very much rooted in physicality at core levels.

The swastika is not simply dividing things into fours...it is setting bodies in motion according to a mathematical standard of physical endurance that will insure their stability and proceative success against competitive environmental conditions...

It's really all about the balance of matter in motion...

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Yeah the swastika is also like a turbine when it gets moving, so it kind of gives a whole new dimension to the myth of churning the ocean of milk where the 13 treasures, including the amrita were lost.

"The scheme, masterminded by Vishnu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishnu), was to wrap the serpent Vasuki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasuki) around Mount Mandara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Mandara), and then to rotate the mountain and to churn the surrounding sea in the manner of a gigantic food processor, by alternately pulling on the serpent's head and then on his tail."

- Wikipedia/Ningipedia

So, fans....rotation and currents.....

Nice graphic MythMath, I like the colors.

[MythMath]

JTSTRS, I found that graphic; it's not mine...

But I have noted the effect it has on the ladies... :laugh:

[Kuroyagi]

I have heard in connection with Chinese astrology that if you place the constellation of the Big Dipper at the height of the four seasons around the axis point of the North Star, they will form the shape of a swastika... Unfortunately I cant find an image of it right now...

[m1thr0s]

this???

link: http://members.fortunecity.com/maryhalpin/alchemy.htm

corroborating links:
(1) http://www.goddessmystic.com/PathActivities/ComparativeReligions/BigDipper.shtml
(2) http://www.boloji.com/astro/00334a.htm

there's a few others as well. google big dipper + north star + swastika...

m1thr0s

[Kuroyagi]

Of course I did google it but the images on the "godessmystic" page and others were too chessy for me to post them here, especially cause you others have established such a high standard so I only mentioned it...thanks for checking again..

p.s. The first link has some useable suggestions for further studies! Also theres some info on the Lo Shu and many other things in Marcel Granet's book "Chinese Thought" (La Penseé Chinoise), it seems; I myself havent read it yet, only browsed some parts but it looks very detailed and I also heard only good things about it from specialists in that field. Has anyone read it?

[Talkingfox]

The swastika is not simply dividing things into fours...it is setting bodies in motion according to a mathematical standard of physical endurance that will insure their stability and proceative success against competitive environmental conditions...

It's really all about the balance of matter in motion...

m1thr0s

Funny ....sounds like a description of the function of Thor....but then again the swastika (fylfot in Norse) IS emblematic of Thor in action...go figure ;)

[Ratatosk]

Funny ....sounds like a description of the function of Thor....but then again the swastika (fylfot in Norse) IS emblematic of Thor in action...go figure ;)

Score one for cross-cultural symbolism!

BTW - I am working on the Sol square/swastika issue - so far I have eliminated squares formed using the 'Filling 9 Blocks', LUX, Strachey, Grogono and Devedic methods. I am trying to find the algorithms used for the Hendricks method and the Benson-Jacoby method, since those are the only two (other than Grogono) that are capable of creating more than 1 version of the square. (Grogono creates 24 - none of which works)

I am also running a 'brute force' method on a spare box at work - it is just churning night and day trying to create as many 6x6 magic squares as possible.

[MythMath]

It sounds like you are the right man for the job...:yes:

[m1thr0s]

BTW - I am working on the Sol square/swastika issue - so far I have eliminated squares formed using the 'Filling 9 Blocks', LUX, Strachey, Grogono and Devedic methods. I am trying to find the algorithms used for the Hendricks method and the Benson-Jacoby method, since those are the only two (other than Grogono) that are capable of creating more than 1 version of the square. (Grogono creates 24 - none of which works)

I am also running a 'brute force' method on a spare box at work - it is just churning night and day trying to create as many 6x6 magic squares as possible.
smokin'...thanks Ratatosk! Even if nothing at all turns up I figure at least we'll know that for sure and that's important. The swastika is still presenting us with at least one way of getting 365 at arms in Sol and if we have to flip the damn key around to get the other side, it's not going to kill us to do it. But it raises a powerful question with respect to what is going on with the 6x6 grid in general.

And even if we lost the 365 in some new arrangement that nevertheless gave us a balanced numeration at arms, we'd want to see that I think...

So anyway...thanks for slugging this one out. I'll be very anxious to see the results.

m1thr0s

[Ratatosk]

smokin'...thanks Ratatosk! Even if nothing at all turns up I figure at least we'll know that for sure and that's important. The swastika is still presenting us with at least one way of getting 365 at arms in Sol and if we have to flip the damn key around to get the other side, it's not going to kill us to do it. But it raises a powerful question with respect to what is going on with the 6x6 grid in general.

And even if we lost the 365 in some new arrangement that nevertheless gave us a balanced numeration at arms, we'd want to see that I think...

So anyway...thanks for slugging this one out. I'll be very anxious to see the results.

m1thr0s

Just a quick note on this, I think the number is most likely going to be 370 per direction - so far, no matter what total comes up for deosil/widdershins, the total of the two is 740, so I have ended up with numbers ranging from 349 to 391, but the total of both directions has been 740 every time. I am keeping in mind, however, that this may be an aspect of the various methods I have used so far to come up with the square - we will see.

[m1thr0s]

that may be a necessary tradeoff. On the one table that yields 365, the opposite arm yields 375 so the average is still 370. But if push comes to shove I'd rather have a balanced opposites than a nifty numeration. If the columns & rows will still give us 111 x 6 = 666...so much the better...

m1thr0s

[Darin Hamel]

http://www.mudrashram.com/kundaliniarousalscale.html#factors

1) The Swastika Center dwells at the very top of spinal tube in the chakra system of the Subconscious Mind. Viewed from the top, it resembles the image shown below.


http://www.mudrashram.com/Assets/swastika-center.gif

[wiz-oz]

M1thr0s I'm sure your aware that Ezekiel's wheel refers to the stations of the cross on the precessional cycle and the animals are Aquarius(man), Leo(Lion), Scorpio(Eagle) Taurus (Bull).
so would look more like this:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/Wiz-OZ/PrecessCross.jpg

One side point about the Swastika, have a look at these logos and see the similarity. Are they symbols of good luck/prosperity or show a deeper connection to something else?

Microsoft http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/Wiz-OZ/MicrosoftLogo.jpg
Columbia Sportswear http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/Wiz-OZ/Columbialogo.jpg
Sun Micro http://www.sun.com/im/a.gifhttp://www.sun.com/im/a.gifhttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/Wiz-OZ/SunMicrologo.jpg

General Electric http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/Wiz-OZ/GE-logo.jpg
Bank of America http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/Wiz-OZ/BankAmericalogo.jpg
Chase Bank (JP Morgan) http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/Wiz-OZ/ChaseMorganlogo.jpg
Rothschild logo http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/Wiz-OZ/RothschildLogo.jpg

Cheers from OZ

[Amur]

In the book of Hopi the Swastika is the emblem of the Creator and also represents the different native american tribes 'migration' as they were told to migrate by the Creator. Not sure if I remember right but the Swastika also represented the Sun in some references.

I still wonder what the turned Swastika means. Some say it's the power of the Black Sun.

Had an experience where I got contacted by a weird form of existence that was very peristive. It was God in a form, and yet it seemed to be 'We' not sure why they use that name to define themselves. But they had the whole thing signed with the Swastika so that it was kind of 'locked' in place. Had a very hard time bringing me down to be humble before that as I had gone against it. My right side seems to have gone all black and wants to follow the reverted Swastika for some reason, when my left side wants to follow the solar Swastika. It's all very odd really.

Some shaman did say on a forum that shamans gets a blessing from both God and Satan. Perhaps that is what the case is. Quite a burdensome path really. Interesting to see where it leads.

[m1thr0s]

I think that the reality is that you just can't hardly get a more *basic* symbolic representation of elemental or cosmic balance than this...it's rooted in the vertical and horizontal axis with the addition of spin and voila...swastika...or whatever else it might happen to be called across hundreds of cultural niches...

it just doesn't get any more basic than this, so it's startling the amount of hysteria that has been generated by one asshole's abuse of power...

people are really kind of stupid...particularly en masse...I know of course that all people are not stupid but it's a little alarming just how many of them are not half as bright as their freaking dogs...

m1thr0s

[Amur]

I think that the reality is that you just can't hardly get a more *basic* symbolic representation of elemental or cosmic balance than this...it's rooted in the vertical and horizontal axis with the addition of spin and voila...swastika...or whatever else it might happen to be called across hundreds of cultural niches...

it just doesn't get any more basic than this, so it's startling the amount of hysteria that has been generated by one asshole's abuse of power...

people are really kind of stupid...particularly en masse...I know of course that all people are not stupid but it's a little alarming just how many of them are not half as bright as their freaking dogs...

m1thr0s

For some reason I get the Vibration that I would be that one Asshole. But I really can't understand HOW THE HELL I COULD BE THAT ASSHOLE?!? If I am I will TRULY remove myself from all Existence because I could never live with that kind of CRAP.

I think you have touched exactly on the origins of the swastika with the cosmic balance. I actually made a 4-pointed reality split that was Me Creating the Whole Creation, or the Creator of All blahblahblah shaite. And there are some prettttttttttty interesting strings that have been pulled on with that behavior. All kinds of threats and what not shite. Especially blowing from Christianity. I mean it feels like whole Christianity is filled with an ironical 'blahblah'.

What is even more alarming are this 'Cosssssssssssssmic ' shaite forces triyng to control en masse with some VERY simple 'astral' 'high' 'technology' (so sorrowful really) algorithms WHEN EVEN I AS A FUCKING RETARD CHILD COULD MAKE BETTER ALGORITMS FOR THEM!!!!!!

I'm sorry if I'm pouring out my emotion but this is what my Archetype is like and it's Certainly Burning with Rage to see this planet like this!

Seems like I'm going to draw alot of swastikas all around the place hehehehe.

For some reason they also seem to be threathening me about the mythology of 'mithras' and with Eternal Punishment because he Ascended the Universe and made a crack in it. Seriously how the hell could I make a crack in this massive thing ? And all I'm running on is a gamma-ray-burst. Seriously I hope that this planet gets flooded with some cosmic vibration.

Seriously what is this USA 'white light' shaite?!? I really hate it, just look at how stupid the people have become there. Actually it seems to be all around the globe, a common trend I guess. Oh yess let's degenerate ourselves into fucking assholes not caring about their enviroment or their fellow human beings. I mean what the hell?!

And these are just words of emotion pouring out, I can just imagine what I'll shout in the astral where there is pure telepathy. I mean WHAT THE HELL A 2 YEAR OLD ASKING ME TELEPATHICLLY 'WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON ON THIS PLANET?!?' He was fearful of the things.

I do believe in A Christ, but he's quite fucking satanic and atleast filled with sarcasm and irony. But why the hell make him so closely related to Jehovah. For all I care that's the asshole I want to aim with this Fire. No offense or pun intended of course.

For all the planet has told me Christ was a fucking retard that made this planet fall off it's balance, or then some powers saw the oppurtunity in this and took advantage of it. The real Christ as I've met Him has certainly got all the Colours that are needed to get this thing working and he certainly wants no fucking pride. And what the hell is with this King shaite anyway?!? What's above or below in space?!? Black And White.

And this 'so called' puny, and pathetic!!! 'higher self' of mine which is yellow by the way, which also things it's a God, what the hell is that about?!?? I light a fucking candle with my left brainhemisphere thinking about God and it tells me all this shit that doesn't make any sense at all. No I can certainly feel it when it's my real higher self speaking to me and that is a vibration I don't forget. Now why not give the Africans a Native Oppurtunity to speak about what is going on on this planet. Seriously. Look at what Christianity did to it.

Going way offtopic here, gonna stop this ramble now and just awaiting for this Volcano to erupt the next time.

[m1thr0s]

could be you just take too much onto yourself Amur...I don't really know...I'm no expert on such things, but it seems to me that no one person can be uniquely responsible for all this stuff unless...somehow...all people are...

I knew a girl sort of like you one time...she'd watch old WW2 movies and wind up apologizing for having done all that shit...what the fuck was she thinking and all of that? Why did she do that shit and why was she still doing it and so on and so on...

and there wasn't shit I could say cuz what I wanted to say she couldn't understand in that frame of mind...that the only way by which she could actually be responsible for all of that is if I was too and everybody else for that freaking matter...which is probably true...but sort of meaningless in terms of what anybody very much cares or would ever really assume...a few maybe...but never most people under any circumstances.

It's a difficult thing to explain, but you've got to include everything and everybody in all of it if you're gonna get anywhere with all this omnipresence crap...if you're the asshole - they're the asshole too...that's just sort of how it works I think...one way or another we're all in this shit together.

my turn to rant I guess...no criticisms you understand...what good would that accomplish?

m1thr0s

[Amur]

Seem to have calmed down and become all blue heh. The planet has a strange way of calming me down. Very Mysterious in it's ways.

[m1thr0s]

Well the Swastika ia a powerful tool and perhaps a little unpredictable in some respects...it's got that khaos thing going on...and it's pretty much intrinsically solar even though the crosshairs and circle themselves are also representative of earth itself among many people...but it's that *spin* factor that really sets it apart visually...and so energetically, viewed at the talismanic level.

Simple distinctions like that can make a tremendous difference...one has to marvel at it sometimes. Same thing in words really...very simple variations can make a huge difference in meaning...

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

One side point about the Swastika, have a look at these logos and see the similarity. Are they symbols of good luck/prosperity or show a deeper connection to something else?I'm pretty much an extreme symbologist so I have seen this pattern a lot. I think we have to recognize that people are a lot more similar than they would like to think they are, so that certain types of symbols have nearly universal implications for nearly all people...there's no one simple explanation for it exactly but there is something of an assortment of explanations that covers the ground I think.

When you set about to assert certain very common themes like power and success and strength and so on...certain symbols just kind of seem to always leap to the forefront that seem best suited to those kinds of assertions. And it's not just symbols...something like 80% of the world's most popular musical expressions revolve around 3 chords (so I have been told) or maybe 6 if you count the major and minor variations of those musical triads etc... I haven't tested the validity of that statement but I wouldn't be surprised to learn it was true.

I read a book one time that outlined the 6 universal plotlines in all of fiction! There are certain archetypal themes that people return to over and over again either consciously or unconsciously...and the same thing occurs with symbols. Symbols have a certain *archetypal* characteristics in this respect and some of these have been dominating the scene since before the dawn of civilization as we know it (the spiral for instance)...

m1thr0s

[wiz-oz]

Hi everyone and happy new year! The Lo-Shun magic Square 1-9 and the Swastika adding to 25 on each leg wouldn't go out of my head, so I knew there was something else 'buried' in that diagram at a deeper level or layered meaning mathematically. Here's what emerged harmonically speaking:

First arm is: 6/7/5/3/4 =25 sum the digits = 2520
second arm is: 2/9/5/1/8 =25 sum the digits = 720
.................................................. .......................3240 = octaves of the precession of the equinoxes 648, 1296, 2592 and 324 is half the perimeter of the base of the Great Pyramid.

the sum of 1 to 9 = 362880/2520 = 144 [gematria for light] and 362880/720 = 504 [Combined radii of Earth 3960 and Moon 1080 = 5040 miles]

2520 x 720 = 1814400/362880 = 5 [the number of hu-man] and central number of the magic square.

2520/0.285714 [or 2/7ths]= 720 IE: in a circle 2520/360 = 7 and 720/360 = 2 alos 1814400/360 = 5040.

*Ninevah constant [70x60 seven times] /[2520x720] = 108000000
(*represents the number of seconds for one revolution of our galaxy).

The above is obviously beyond co-incidence, so may indicate a simple mathematical cosmology (when I say simple - doesn't require complicated mathematical formulae). I'm interested in your thoughts on this 'spin'.

Cheers from OZ

[m1thr0s]

just to clarify - what do you mean by "sum the digits"?

how does 6/7/5/3/4 =25 come to equal 2520?

I'm sure I'm not the only one around here who only relies on math out of sheer necessity...my brain really doesn't leap with joy at all of these connections necessarily...it usually puts up a pretty decent fuss first...lol

m1thr0s

[wiz-oz]

Hi M1thr0s, apologies for confusion. 2520 is the sum of 6x7x5x3x4. Multiplying the numbers within the Lo-shu swastika lines.

I hope that's clearer.

Also from this site http://www.jainmathemagics.com/page/1/default.asp quote:
Question 7:
WHAT IS THE POWER OF THE SWAZTIKA? WHERE SHOULD IT BE PLACED AND WHY?

The Swaztika, like many sacred symbols, is derived from Magic Squares. When we work with the Magic Square of the Sun, which is the 6x6, we are dealing with all the numbers from 1 to 36, all columns and rows and diagonals add up to 111, and therefore the sum of all numbers is 666. Now the pattern derived is the Swaztika, the famous Hindu symbol of Peace. It is only a cross that spins, representing balance of moving forces. We can thus make an equation that the Swaztika has a
vibration of 6 or the Sun (according to the Jewish Qaballah system of Thought). So the ancients knew, that if they wanted to go to the next galaxy or solar system, they had to go through the Eye of the Sun, to go multi-dimensional, or Time Travel. But what has happened, is that in only the last 60 years or so, the western world has deliberately corrupted this beautiful symbol and placed Fear upon it by equating it to Hitler and his regime of war. Hitler merely perverted the original
form of the swastika by turning it as a diamond shape, not as a square. The square form is Hindu Peace, the 45 degree turn is deliberate anti-Peace. Hitler always had 3 swaztikas which meant 666. This is a solar number, not necessary good or evil, but the essence is that a symbol will only mean whatever the mass consciousness want it to mean. We can turn this around if enough people become educated and focus their thoughts upon the swastika, it can become powerful again like Surya. Thus Thought is more powerful than ignorance.
Place the Holy Swaztika in the foundations of your home when first constructing a new dwelling, or place it a dead spot to activate that area. Be intuitve. The Power is in You, not just books. Unquote.

The guy calls himself jain lives in Eastern Australia and specialises in Vedic maths.

cheers

[m1thr0s]

thanks wiz-oz...that fixed it :D

very interesting quote from Jain...I have never seen that stated anywhere before but it's completely obvious when you look into it. This observation regarding the swastika and magickal squares became apparent to me just through our conversations on this forum... I was pretty excited to discover this and put together an assortment of magical squares most relevant to the Tree of Life:

Swastika Keys - Odds (http://www.abrahadabra.com/swastika.keys.odds.htm)

Swastika Keys - Evens (http://www.abrahadabra.com/swastika.keys.evens.htm)

I didn't post all the number totals and inside patterns but there's a ton of fascinating stuff going on there...

To me, this hyphenates the importance of going beyond what we have been conditioned to think and learn to see things for what they really are...something a lot easier to say than do unfortunately and a habit I think you have to cultivate more as a life choice than a simple correcting of any one mistake...

I hope more people (over time) begin to see this whole connection with the swastika since this symbol is one of the biggies - not unlike the golden mean - that holds a lot of power for us all, used properly... It has special implications for energy workers or people using scrying as a magickal tool of some kind. It's all about *spin* and the kinds of inertias unleashed working through different kinds of magickal lenses...

m1thr0s

[Amur]

Hehe, got actually a bit embarrased the day after the pouring. But that's just how I am. Anyway, I think it's quite normal for schizophrenics to take responsibility of every little tiny bit that happens in the world as their fault or something along the lines.

As for the music, I thought about programming a trance-song generator that would randomly generate songs with the press of 1 button. I guess it could be extended to other genres also with a little bit of scripting. I think it would certainly be funny. Perhaps one could do the same thing with geometry in a sense. Would generate random geometrical pictures at the press of a button.

What makes the swastika so interesting is that it is found in so many different cultures scattered across the globe. I think that already in itself gives it power and meaning.

[m1thr0s]

I actually don't think it's a problem so long as you involve others in the script Amur...this whole business of taking personal responsibility for the problems of the world is an integral prerequisite to assuming the mantle of Shambhala (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shambhala)...or the Way of the Warrior as it is also called...

Sooner or later somebody has to pay down these damn bills or the whole world goes belly-up...it's academic really... The human animal is simply too powerful to be running completely out of control all the fucking time...

m1thr0s

[Amur]

The ironical part is that I was given the technology to change this whole shit but guess if they wanted it to change? No instead I became stopped in all kind of senses and thrown into things I wouldn't have wanted to do at all. Instead of changing it for everyone, they wanted to get the technology for themselves to abuse and to keep them in their power. Blah, the idiots can't understand that it might mean that the planet chooses to destroy the civilization and society as we know it and start again. That's atleast one of the dimensions that have been shown to me. And to be honest it feels quite good and calm inside. But it only means that alot and alot of humans will die. But when I've seen these humans that will die it only feels like they are destined to it anyway so it shouldn't matter. An even odder dimension says that they shouldn't even be here in the first place, so that's what I'm wondering, why the hell are they here anyway?!?

Of course I would welcome them to stay if they only could keep the balance of nature and respect the planet they live on. But since way too many have this 'abuse the most out of this shit' attitude I would gladly just remove them. Will be interesting to see what path will be taken.

[m1thr0s]

oh well...garbage in - garbage out Amur...life goes on...if not here, then elsewhere. global catastrophes are a normal condition of the planet and you've got to figure that nature ultimately produced all these monkeys for some reason of its own. If they can't or won't fulfill their natural function, it will ultimately take them out...

high-risk game all in all...and there's always *divine intervention* to consider, although we have become too attached to that construct to do us any real good for the most part...maybe some *other* divine intervention then... I'm a little partial to the godman construct personally...I like the idea of somebody at random (accidentally or purposefully) getting their shit together and then ripping ass on all the shitheads gumming up the works, unable to be stopped at all...wishful thinking probably...still, leadership has been a major stumbling block for humans...all the exact wrong psycho's always seem to wind up in charge. It would be fun to see what a proper psycho might accomplish...

m1thr0s

[wiz-oz]

M1thr0s, the annoying thing about these discoveries, is none of it is new - the knowledge is there, but not the wisdom of it. We are having to re-run the program, so to speak - and yet perhaps they are tools which are available to be used in a different context to those earlier times. Maybe it was mis-used and hence we lost the wisdom.

One comment and observation about the posts between yourself & Amur about this world. Your posts lack compassion and the only way this world can be repaired is through unconditional love. If us three are so perfect in our judgements, would we need to be here? Are we not part of the problem if we do not find the best there is to offer and allow those of a (lets say) lower vibration to learn - because that what this journey is about. We all mess up before we understand the error of our ways and it becomes wisdom to be taught and shared.

With the tools we have we can alter the direction of things - already the materialistic world is under so much stress that people are waking up that having the latest gadget is not filling that emptiness. The Earth with climate change is showing everyone that there's a price to pay greater than what's on your credit card bill.

In 2008 I intend taking a positive view of things and let the negatives go and accept them without taking them on or making judgements about them. That way my world view changes.

Now I'll get off my soap box. But felt strongly I couldn't let your posts go unchallenged.

Chhers from OZ down-under

[wiz-oz]

M1thr0s, I looked at you work on the magic squares - evens and I recall someone mentioning that the 6x6 square is related to the sun, but the swastika arms weren't evenly balanced. When I added the two arms I got 151+214 = 365. Which I think was also mentioned. If my assumptions are correct, then the sun & 365 is very interesting.

cheers

[Amur]

One comment and observation about the posts between yourself & Amur about this world. Your posts lack compassion and the only way this world can be repaired is through unconditional love. If us three are so perfect in our judgements, would we need to be here? Are we not part of the problem if we do not find the best there is to offer and allow those of a (lets say) lower vibration to learn - because that what this journey is about. We all mess up before we understand the error of our ways and it becomes wisdom to be taught and shared.


I do agree that the way to repair this world is through unconditional love, that's been proved to me many many times. The problem is how to generate it in massive amounts to fill up all the holes in the ppl. Perhaps that's something that will happen through the planet consciousness itself.

In no way have I said anything about being perfect heh, and yes there are lots to learn still and the road is hard and bumpy. Compassion is good to have and I guess it comes from having an understanding to ones fellow living beings.

[m1thr0s]

it's ok wiz-oz, I do understand what you are saying. Try to bear in mind that in my case at least, you are addressing someone who has committed his entire life to furthering the human condition by every means available to me...and I'm not a young man anymore and it has hardly been an easy road to travel. So you are getting a rhetoric devoid of the context that would otherwise balance it out much more to the positive than would otherwise seem to be the case.

Nor do these efforts stop anywhere in route...not today...not tomorrow...not ever. But the reality is that people en masse are not very much worth the effort...only the exceptions seem very much worth it and these are few and far between. I don't expect people to live up to some sort of ridiculously idealist standard just to make me feel better, but I have spent a fairly difficult life having to duck and dodge the ugliest shit imaginable all because the vast majority of people are so locked into the acquisition of crap and the denial of their own simple humanity that any crackpot ideology is sufficient to encourage them to assume the foulest kinds of human depravity without question or remorse. More recently *capitalism* is one of these ideologies, which doesn't even maintain any pretense of morality, yet people can't get enough of it.

On the one hand I uphold the standard "every man and every woman is a star" and commit myself tirelessly to making this a more realizable reality, but on the other I don't actually know too many *stars* that are not so completely caked in crap as to make the likelihood of their reclamation a virtual absurdity.

Things are what they are, that's all...and there's not much point pretending they are not. But I believe humanity will probably survive even itself somehow and eventually go on to realize that more universal potential latent within. I just don't expect it to happen easily and I don't expect it to happen soon and I also don't expect it to happen without undergoing some sort of crisis of epic proportions. I am not the judge and I am not the jury but I also will not pretend that crap smells like a rose just to satisfy my own romantic sensibilities.

The work of *love* goes on...but it is a work, not an emotion and not an idealistic appraisal of anything or anybody...

hope that clarifies things a little...words are words...not absolute realities...

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

are you quite sure wiz-oz? I got 365 one way but 375 the other and I counted several times...it was the only one that didn't add up evenly in both directions! please tell me I counted wrong!!! If you are working from my tables...check the exact arrangements of numbers since I had to swap them backwards to get the 365 both ways...which you can do, but it's sort of cheating...

but yeah...that 365 is a freaking mind-blower...

m1thr0s

[wiz-oz]

Guys, this will blow you away, I just came across this by accident (or was it?)looking for something else, see url: http://www.book-of-thoth.com/article1656.html

quote: the Great Pyramid base side length being 756 therefore the base area is 756 x 756 = 571536. The diagonal length of the base is therefore 571536 + 571536 = 1143072 the square root of being 1069.14545315, whilst this is multiplied by the GP height of 480 we obtain 513189.817513, therefore divide this by 362880 to obtain, 1.41421356 observed above as the square root of two.
The 362880 being the GP base side length of 756 x 480, otherwise we may well undertake the following procedure. unquote

This is the sum of (multiplying) 1 to 9 in my post about the Swastika arms and the Lo-shu magic square - all is number.

Go figure - it also relates to the GP. Not sure what to say now.

[wiz-oz]

M1thr0s, here's how I multiplied the numbers see red line path in your 6x6 diagram:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/Wiz-OZ/swastika_6x6.jpg

It gets weirder if you count 151 days from 01/01/08 you get 31/05/08 guess what the right hand side starts with 1 and ends with 31. then 31/05/2008 to 31/12/2008 is 214 days.

[m1thr0s]

right...that's the counter-clockwise rotation (assuming arm ends to indicate spin direction). If you go the other way you get:
6+7+19+14+16+21+17+13+12+31 = 156
1+35+34+28+15+22+10+33+5+36 = 219
----------------------------------------------...-----
.................................................. ..........375

It's been awhile since I ran all of these numbers but I think the Key of Sol was the only one that yielded different sums...which then led me to wonder if there might not be another arrangement of numbers that would work the same both ways...(most the keys do work out the same both ways)

I'll need to check with Ratatosk - he was running a massive numbers check for me but I never heard back...

great article wiz-oz - I'll need some time to digest that one...

m1thr0s

[wiz-oz]

Guys, here's some added info re previous posts:

GP base one side = 756/108 = 7

Ninevah constant in days 2268c/108 = 21 [3x7] 108/360 = 0.3 252/360 = 0.7

Ninevah constant in days is 2268c/252 = 9

This indicates a harmonic in days between a circle/cycle with the number 9 as a completion time/number and a proportional relationship between numbers 108 & 252 and how this involves the mystic number 7 and the magic of 3.

The difference between 252 – 108 = 144 [gematria for light]

http://www.celticnz.co.nz/US10.html (http://www.celticnz.co.nz/US10.html) Martin Doutré site
SEXAGESIMAL METHOD:
The Great Pyramid's base perimeter value (3024 feet) was representative of ½ a minute of arc under this system. The Earth's circumference value was found by multiplying 3024 X 43200. Remember that the radius of the Sun is 432000 miles and that the Royal Cubit length for one side of the Pyramid is 432.
The Earth, therefore, was considered to be 130636800 feet or 24,741.81818 miles. This sexagesimal rendition could be broken down into degrees, minutes and seconds of arc.
Therefore, 1 degree of arc (1/360th of the circle of the Earth) was 362880 feet. Note that the "inch value" for the Great Pyramid's perimeter was 36288" (3024 feet X 12).
1 minute of arc (1/60th of a degree of the circle of the Earth) was 6048 feet. Note that this is twice the perimeter value of the Great Pyramid (3024 feet).
The degree increment of 1 second of arc was 100.8 feet.
this to me ties in one side of the base of GP with the height as expressed as 1/360 of the earth. 362880/9 = 40320 a harmonic of 432 and recalling the sum of 1 to 9 is 362880

1x2 =2x3 =6x4 =24x5 =120x6 =#720x7 =#5040x8 = 40320x9 =362880
#swastika arms 2520x2 = 5040 x 720 = 3628800.

These details link the Lo-shu Square with the geometry of the GP

cheers from Oz

[m1thr0s]

It would of course make sense for the Egyptians to be consciously buliding around the Magic Key of Saturn (Lo Shu Square), which, for them, would have been the Ogdoad & Ennead, a cosmological doctrine dating to the old kingdom (3rd thru 6th dynasties) at exactly the time when the first pyramids were being constructed. Even without this doctrinal reinforcement, building around the mathematics of the Lo Shu Square would have been a natural inclination...

m1thr0s

[wiz-oz]

M1thr0s, I'm not sure about the date of the GP, but the sphinx I believe in around 45,000 yrs old marking the Aquarian/Leo precessional period. There is evidence that it covers 2 cycles because of the alighnment of the sun over the shoulder of the Sphinx. The GP maybe up to 10,000 years old. But I guess it doesn't matter which came first, only that the same wisdom and knowledge is on a firm base and applied across different cultures, whether from the same source or not.

When science uses complicated mathematical formulae to describe something, I don't believe the universe is a complex place in the sense that a simple set of rules and structure is more stable and viable, otherwise it could have collapsed long ago. Nature uses simple principles and hence the numbers shown are whole and simple to apply.

An example is the golden ratio which appears to be infinte. If correct then our universe is infinte, but although it is in a relationship of a straight line to circumference of a circle, I have this feeling that the ratio is a 2D approach and therefore Illogical. If space is curved, then the ratio would change and could be a whole number. I haven't checked this out, but it's my observation that they use super computers to determine something which is on paper and doesn't represent to true nature of things. Would you agree with this thought?

cheers

[m1thr0s]

yes, I think so...and as for nature and its complexities, any hexagramologist would probably want to point out that nature tends to work very tightly within a binary or (less apparently) ternary mathematics combined in quantum layers or pairings of sorts - such as RNA-DNA or even just macrocosm - microcosm as a generic sort of standard.

Interactive geomancies may give the appearance of extremely complex base 10 computations but this doesn't mean that nature itself very much gives a crap about any of that...it has found a much more efficient way to achieve infinite complexity from the purest forms of simplicity.

m1thr0s

[frater luciferi]

i just wanna say that i really am digging on this thread...the swastika is a central symbol in my magickal "grimoire" so to speak so I am really into this whole thing..although i dont know that i am entirely understanding it..is their anyway that you guys could boil what you are saying down for someone who's brain is'nt exactly wired for math? perhaps more kabbalistic ?

[m1thr0s]

The swastika is an embedded symbol of unity, balance and infinity found within virtually all magical square arrangements. It is especially interesting to note that the swastika itself requires a minimum of a 3 x 3 grid to achieve numerical balance, which also happens to be the first magical square possible in numbers.

It would however, even be possible within a 2 x 2 grid at the level of bigrams, giving us a balance of opposites even at the geomantic level...but its most detailed offerings do seem to involve numerical expressions since the numbers give us specific insights into the *hidden* super-symmetrical dynamics latent within various magical square arrangements. The illustrations below show us how the swastika is useful in helping us sort out the correct rotational parameters in elemental fields. Knowing this - understanding how fields should spin at the molecular level - informs us of the proper way to construct them:

Deiseil


http://abrahadabra.com/images/minus-minus.jpghttp://abrahadabra.com/images/spin-right.jpghttp://abrahadabra.com/images/plus-plus.jpg

Widdershins

http://abrahadabra.com/images/minus-plus.jpghttp://abrahadabra.com/images/spin-left.jpghttp://abrahadabra.com/images/plus-minus.jpg

This is pretty relevant stuff since - firstly, there aren't a whole lot of symbols that can do this and secondly, bigrammaton is technically everything there is at the level of matter as we know it! It all begins right there at the *Four Phenomena*. The swastika itself outlines a *5th*. So people can spew whatever hate crap they like but nobody is EVER gonna be rid of this thing...this symbol has absolutely nothing to do with some petty little prick in some isolated political scenario.

People need to deal with the fact that one of the best ways to put all this hitler crap to rest is to reclaim those things he attempted to steal from the entire human race...he had no intellectual right to try to make the swastika uniquely german and he knew it...he must have known it...it really cannot be hidden except from those who simply refuse to see. It was a kind of cowardice on his part from the outset...he couldn't express his own murderous ideology by any other means than stealing from the world's own store of mystical treasures. The only proper symbol for the Nazi ideology would have been the image of some innocent kid being shot in the head by a bunch of goose-stepping thugs...difficult to market, yet market it they did, through thievery and lies and every chickenshit tactic they could muster. None of it was valid but the symbols themselves.

This symbol is a human inheritance handed down to us from the Infinite itself...it contains a great many mysteries pertaining to the balancing of opposites and is a great magickal key - one of the most prolific keys there is. In many ways it has more in common with the conventional Infinity symbol than any other...save that it is even more detailed in its technical description. On a personal level I am quite convinced it is all about *Spin* - the mysterious *5th Force* of nature that we are only just now beginning to acknowledge at the level of modern science...yet the mystics have been going on and on about this stuff since before recorded history...

I can't really agree with the *diamond* theory btw...I've seen ancient east-indian depictions of it this way as well and it really shouldn't matter anyway...there is no inherently wrong or sinister way to position this symbol...there is only wrong and sinister people using something profoundly sacred for foul and filthy purposes...none of this is any accurate reflection on the swastika itself.



m1thr0s

[Ratatosk]

right...that's the counter-clockwise rotation (assuming arm ends to indicate spin direction). If you go the other way you get:
6+7+19+14+16+21+17+13+12+31 = 156
1+35+34+28+15+22+10+33+5+36 = 219
----------------------------------------------...-----
.................................................. ..........375

It's been awhile since I ran all of these numbers but I think the Key of Sol was the only one that yielded different sums...which then led me to wonder if there might not be another arrangement of numbers that would work the same both ways...(most the keys do work out the same both ways)

I'll need to check with Ratatosk - he was running a massive numbers check for me but I never heard back...

great article wiz-oz - I'll need some time to digest that one...

m1thr0s

Sorry I have been incommunicado for so long - the results of running the program for nearly 3 months non-stop are as follows:
There are literally thousands of ways of drawing a 6x6 magic square. A large number of those are rotations or mirrors of others. But in all the time that I was able to run the script I never came across a square that yielded identical numbers in clockwise and counter-clockwise swastikas. I don't know that it can be done using addition. What I didn't get the chance to try is using multiplication. There may be a way to multiply the arms to get a matched result, but I wouldn't place money on it.

My opinion at this point is that there is no 6x6 magic square that creates matched value swastikas.

Drats! Foiled again!

[m1thr0s]

no...I don't think so Ratatosk...not foiled. But we needed to know that before exploring further into the ramifications of this curious exception.

I'm guessing that by the time we sort the whole thing out we'll see that the situation is quite perfect just as it stands.

m1thr0s

[frater luciferi]

does the kabbalic significance of either three digit total have and interelated meaning? this is waht i got from my copy of 777

156 equals a seed, a bird, angel of the first day of december, and zion

219

the elect, giants? (which may be nephillim.) also references to the left facing swastika..that is to say that in the book 777 219 is correlated to that number...now which number was related to which swastika again?

zion and nephillim left and right....meh...

but thats just the numerical equation of the number values of those "words" and phrases added up in the hebrew as all the letters have a number to them...
there i used my copy of 777 for something :P

[frater luciferi]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/fraterluciferi/squetzalcoatl-2.jpg

this is q..the mayan "saviour god" whos name i cannot spell...crucified on a four pronged cross
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/fraterluciferi/sixion-1.jpg

this guy is actually mithras

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/fraterluciferi/standrew-1.jpg
this guy is supposed to be a apostle ..i am not sure who though..the painting is odviously from the middle ages..

[m1thr0s]

does the kabbalic significance of either three digit total have and interelated meaning?well sure...gematria very often does that sort of thing...fusing words or phrases to numbers etc...and it's all worth something in some context or another...

but to be frank...the further away you get from pure numeric-geometric relationships, the more difficult it is to discuss universal principles. That doesn't invalidate the approach but it does tell us something about its built-in limitations.

Alphabets, to begin with, are pretty much random sound associations that have no legitimate chronology of any kind other than consensual organizations within cultures...varying from generation to generation and locality to locality even within the same cultural niches...so it's just an impossible situation for those of us tracking *first principles* or any kind. Many of your more hardcore gematriasts actually wind up steering pretty clear of that after awhile...depending upon what you are working on of course. There's a time and a place for everything.

But traditional kabbalah is constantly asserting fundamentally bogus half-truths regarding the existence of universal principles embedded in one or another scriptures for instance...shemhamphorasch...all that kind of thing. You can always find just about whatever you want to find once you begin approaching things that way because all of your natural checks and balances simply don't exist...you can never really prove that anything is either right or wrong...does or does not mean what you conclude it to mean and so on. Some people really seem to dig that kind of ambiguity...I personally find it shallow and disingenuous for the most part...even though I still look to those connections periodically.

So word associations can be useful but I would always hold them at arms length and not rely upon them too heavily...incidental guides to deeper underscoring truths at best...complete gibberish at worst...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

It is most often referred to as the Cross of St. Andrew, after the manner of the Saint's supposed crucifixion.

http://z.about.com/d/altreligion/1/0/r/e/1/standrew.jpg
http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefsandrewscross.htm

[Amur]

Neat picture about the solar-cross and the 'saviour', I actually feel like I've exactly been crucified on a 4-dimensional path. Got told by the local spirits that I was to become the Creator of All. Which was a bit fearsome/dangerous so I tried to quit the whole path. It also came with alot of threats from other agencies heh. Not to mention Jehova that didn't like it at all.

Funny in a sense though.

[frater luciferi]

well sure...gematria very often does that sort of thing...fusing words or phrases to numbers etc...and it's all worth something in some context or another...

but to be frank...the further away you get from pure numeric-geometric relationships, the more difficult it is to discuss universal principles. That doesn't invalidate the approach but it does tell us something about its built-in limitations.

Alphabets, to begin with, are pretty much random sound associations that have no legitimate chronology of any kind other than consensual organizations within cultures...varying from generation to generation and locality to locality even within the same cultural niches...so it's just an impossible situation for those of us tracking *first principles* or any kind. Many of your more hardcore gematriasts actually wind up steering pretty clear of that after awhile...depending upon what you are working on of course. There's a time and a place for everything.

But traditional kabbalah is constantly asserting fundamentally bogus half-truths regarding the existence of universal principles embedded in one or another scriptures for instance...shemhamphorasch...all that kind of thing. You can always find just about whatever you want to find once you begin approaching things that way because all of your natural checks and balances simply don't exist...you can never really prove that anything is either right or wrong...does or does not mean what you conclude it to mean and so on. Some people really seem to dig that kind of ambiguity...I personally find it shallow and disingenuous for the most part...even though I still look to those connections periodically.

So word associations can be useful but I would always hold them at arms length and not rely upon them too heavily...incidental guides to deeper underscoring truths at best...complete gibberish at worst...

m1thr0s

yet again the solid principle of meta-science hits the mark ..while the limitations of language falls short.. i've never really put a lot of stock in kabbala as far as the "word" aspect of it...the actual "tree of life" itself is near perfect in its symetry and is a good map of syncronicity...still though the "words--gematria, i understand what you are getting at there..the limitations of words --even if they are a eventual expansion of the root meaning...and the math is much more pure..i was just taken aback in some degree by the syncronicities that exist within my own minds "mirror" interpriting it..it does lack the solid "evidence" of the mathmatical interpritation of the swastika numerical tables..

still though zion and nephillim.. those type of things are more my game--paradigmal interrelations--either way i know you are right and the math is more pure...much the same as eastern philophy seems to be much more pure then western...

and im not entire sure i can trust crowelys interpritation of kabbala..although i might just stick to working with the tree---i think i got obsessed in some sense after watching that one movie"PI".. which reminds me, has anyone tried to relate the two swazis using the golden ratio? like i said ..math is not my strongsuit but im seeing the purity of its application vs. the abiguity of "words".

although i've always though that sandskrit--(the other "sacred ancient launguage) would make a much better template for geomatic applications...

either way im not trying to talk politics... was just interested to see the two having a polar relation..i'll have to dig up some dirt on the actual buddhist connotation of this because i know that buddhist temples will display two swastikas one facing either direction. though im sure its more of a ying yang analogy then a east vs. west thing.

[m1thr0s]

these synchronicities do exist. why they exist is never entirely clear. I would never recommend abandoning anything that yields insight...even if only on some intangible hit-and-miss basis. It may be that there are underscoring properties going on there that we simply don't understand. Some words, and even many whole writings, may have been drawn from trance states for instance, in which case they may have been operating from a very lofty altitude at the point of their inscriptions. Possibilities such as these do exist but are simply very difficult to pin down or validate after the fact.

So word-associations should not be overlooked. They should be studied as a matter of course. My point is simply that they should not be altogether trusted.

although i've always though that sandskrit--(the other "sacred ancient launguage) would make a much better template for geomatic applications...yeah, I think so too. It may also be possible to devise some sort of phonetic language system that works in lieu of a uniform vibrational criterion of some kind. I always sort of felt like any legitimate *tongue of the angels* would need to follow some sort of standard such as this. Trigrammaton itself provides a possibility for this with its 27 chronological *letters*, already corresponding to numeric, geomantic and elemental criterion...

m1thr0s

[Amur]

Here (http://www.crystalinks.com/swastika.html) was a quite nice link about the swastika. Alot of different information.

[m1thr0s]

yeah...we stumbled on that one a few months back:

http://abrahadabra.com/images/swastika02.jpg

article (http://www.sol.com.au/kor/11_02.htm)

m1

[Anibis]

Neat picture about the solar-cross and the 'saviour', I actually feel like I've exactly been crucified on a 4-dimensional path. Got told by the local spirits that I was to become the Creator of All. Which was a bit fearsome/dangerous so I tried to quit the whole path. It also came with alot of threats from other agencies heh. Not to mention Jehova that didn't like it at all.

Funny in a sense though.

Know what? That could easily mean that you will get a chance to re-create the universe of your own being.... I'd vote for you... I mean the actualized magus working their true will IS the creator of all. It's just different in practice than it sounds.Also, have you ever seen Dali's image of the crucifixion?

http://www.artchive.com/artchive/D/dali/crucifix.jpg.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Dalí


Dalí was also fascinated by DNA and the hypercube - a 4-dimensional cube - and an unfolding of a hypercube is featured in the painting Crucifixion (Corpus Hypercubus).
Dalí’s post-World War II period bore the hallmarks of technical virtuosity and an interest in optical illusions, science and religion. Increasingly Catholic, and inspired by the shock of Hiroshima, he labeled this period "Nuclear Mysticism". In paintings such as The Madonna of Port-Lligat (first version) of 1949 and Corpus Hypercubus, 1954, Dalí sought to synthesize Christian iconography with images of material disintegration inspired by nuclear physics."]Dalí was also fascinated by DNA and the hypercube - a 4-dimensional cube - and an unfolding of a hypercube is featured in the painting Crucifixion (Corpus Hypercubus).
Dalí’s post-World War II period bore the hallmarks of technical virtuosity and an interest in optical illusions, science and religion. Increasingly Catholic, and inspired by the shock of Hiroshima, he labeled this period "Nuclear Mysticism". In paintings such as The Madonna of Port-Lligat (first version) of 1949 and Corpus Hypercubus, 1954, Dalí sought to synthesize Christian iconography with images of material disintegration inspired by nuclear physics.

(from Wikipedia)

-Anibis

[Amur]

Know what? That could easily mean that you will get a chance to re-create the universe of your own being.... I'd vote for you... I mean the actualized magus working their true will IS the creator of all. It's just different in practice than it sounds.Also, have you ever seen Dali's image of the crucifixion?


Wouldn't vote for myself yet as my mind's been confused and alot of me fell into a state of idiocy. But perhaps it'll soon go away. Interesting you mention that maguses are part of the creators. I do feel that many maguses/sorcerers have the thing inside them, where they are actually a part of the web of creation/existence itself. In a way I actually see how many things are controlled by them 'behind the scenes'. What I've been interested in is the actual creation process of a new religion and all that it involves around. Would be interesting to actually create a whole new paradigm which would actually get ppl back to their own roots. In this way they would become embedded in the web of God by just being themselves. And of course they would 'worship' God (themselves) by just living their own life and doing their thing. I find it quite hilarious that so many ppl draw weird egoistic patterns up, when they could actually just be themselves and be so much more beautiful in all ways.

I find it funny that the crucifix is actually a 2D representation of a 3D cube, and cube being the symbol for the element of Earth. Funny you mention that I get a chance to recreate the universe of my own being, as it feels like I'm in a shamanistic process of destruction and re-creation. I've actually had many visions which indicate that this would be the last life. In one of the visions I sacrifice myself for the well-being of the whole planet and it's somekind of world-wide miracle as it ignites the whole planet into pure Light and everyone gets 'There'. In another vision I got killed into pure Void by somekind of spirit-spider. I also find it interesting that female spiders actually eat their male-mates after mating. This kundalini process also seems to be converging towards Void itself. Many pictures that I saw with ppl who had fully activated kundalini, simply didn't exist. They were somehow 'gone alltogether' from Existence. Their being showed up as pure Void. The same thing happened when I looked at some shaman's pictures. They didn't either exist.

When being on mushrooms I actually sang somekind of song on another level where I put the Law or refreshed the Law for a 1000 years and told that We would come back at that time when they have forgot about it 'again'. It was something that was embedded deeply in fire itself.

Anyway when this whole process started in the beginning of the awakening, I got confronted with 4 of world's forces. One of them was very very displeased with what I had done. For some reason I equate these 4 world forces with the swastika, and in a sense also with the elements themselves.

What I'm actually now interested in is how to propel the consciousness/oneself into that omniscient state where one is super-creative and actually knows everything. Was thinking that it should be possible to make it also so that if one needs to know something by experience, one just focuses on experiencing the thing and from that getting the experience needed to know that thing. The funniest part was last time when in an Omniscient state, I didn't actually focus on knowledge anymore as it got boring, when one simply just knew everything, anyway it made life alot more interesting as it was very much more interesting to just be and simply experience life itself. What I'm also very interested in is how to actually propel other people into this same state. It should be possible by just touching them on the head and giving them the direction. Of course they would need to have a prepared ego so that they wouldn't get afraid/panic from the change in consciousness.

A friend of mine actually mentioned a quite nice concept in itself, he said something about the 'nirvana symbol', which is of course different for everyone. Anyway if this symbol was made in pure geometry, it should be possible to reproduce it for everyone and help them harness it in itself where they would actually propell themselves into themselves.

Anyway making a separate thread for new concepts that you've come up with or ideas.

[Dragon]

I think I just have a basic, instinctive understanding of the math here - in summation, I get out of the box and into the overview, so one can just see it doing its thing between the square and the circle, all the way up and all the way down; So I'm not jumping into the gridwork, as I'm fairly satisfied with my perspective on it.. Although great work tracking down the permutations.

I'm still looking at the historical aspects. I read this little paper, which led me to a killer bibliography.

http://www.midwesternepigraphic.org/swastika01.html

Good to see this subject is still up and running. The symbol in question is one of the core principles governing behavoural relationships in the Universe, and of course quite possibly the oldest known symbol in our culture, right back there with circle, spiral, and square..

oh wait a minute...it IS circle, spiral, and square..... ;)


hehehe.

Good times.

~D~

[MythMath]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/MythMath/Squareswastika3copy.jpg

[m1thr0s]

whee!!!! the 5 Dragons strike again... :)

m1

[MythMath]

Could you explain the 5 Dragons...?

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/MythMath/tj.gif

Also, I modified the swastika image from post #120 a bit...

Click to see the new version: http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showpost.php?p=30555&postcount=120

[m1thr0s]

colors will vary...I think blue-yellow-red-green-white may actually be a buddhist color scheme but the 5 Dragons (or Agents) = The 5 Elements...

This page may help a little: http://www.friesian.com/elements.htm#buddh

m1

[wiz-oz]

Hi MythMath & m1thr0s

I've come up with 2 variants of the Lo-Shu magic square similar to the Swastika path.

Equilaterals
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/Wiz-OZ/Lo-Shu-variant.jpg

Note this one is formed from tracing the path of the even numbers (pink) and odd numbers (green) both add up to 25 as per the Sawstika arms. Note that the even number (pink) equilateral triangles formed are twice the size (1 octave larger) and interlaced with the odd numbers (green).

Cubic
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/Wiz-OZ/Lo-Shu-Cube.jpg

While the cubic version if folded as a cube has odd numbers, but leaves one empty square - it too adds to 25. You could assume the empty square may or may not be filled by the even numbers of either 2-4-6-8 .


So each pattern: swastika, equilateral triangles & cube each come to the same value.

When the values of odd numbers are multiplied 1*3*5*7*9 = 945 three octaves higher = 7560 a harmonic of the base side of GP at Giza and the even numbers 2*4*6*8 = 384 which is the number 3 to the seventh octave. they come out at 756/7 =108 & 756/3 = 252. The degrees of a circle at 3/7ths are 108/252.

Which makes me wonder that if the GP is representative of the measure of our existence - then ALL can be contained within the Lo-Shu magic square and numbers 1 to 9 without the need for fancy formulas.

Also MythMath I loved your rendition of the circle and squares interlaced. It appears from an immediate impression as like looking down the barrel of an electromagnetic field or a dual particle-antiparticle pathway.

My humble apologies that my diagrams aren't up to your excellent standards - but does the job nonetheless.

Cheers from OZ

[MythMath]

I dig it all... :yes:
_______________

We've been working on an hourlong
kymotrope video of the 18 frequency
permutations of 147,258,369...

I'll have more details and a clip soon...

[m1thr0s]

Which makes me wonder that if the GP is representative of the measure of our existence - then ALL can be contained within the Lo-Shu magic square and numbers 1 to 9 without the need for fancy formulas.I do believe this to be the case and everything I have learned over the years continues to affirm it...

Seems downright impossible sometimes...but I think it may be this way in fact.

It's always good to see fresh new number-crunchers taking a crack at it...too much fun!!!

m1

[frater luciferi]

five elemental systems seem to be the most reliable method of interpritation..as far as origination ...im getting into crowelys explanation of the origin of matter and it always seems to go back to daath...but i am a fan of abadon. the murky depths that birthes the first outlines of the typeset for the words that would be fashion on it.. it'd be cool to see pure form of sound manipulated using those syncronise algorythms...like symatics..

[wiz-oz]

Hi Guys, I decided to try an apply the Sofeggio principles to the Lo-Shu Magic square as per image below which came up with 16 frequencies:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/Wiz-OZ/Lo-ShuFrequencies.jpg

It would be interesting for any muso out there with the right software to try these frequencies out to see what you get. Note only 852 is a Solfeggio frequency.


Also here's a 9x9 magic square with numbers to 81 where the reduction of the numbers (cross-addition) mirrors 9 3x3 Lo-Shu magic squares:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/Wiz-OZ/Lo_shu9X.jpg

Cheers from Down Under

[erilaz]

This has to do with the Lo Shu Di