Unknown ancient(sacred)geometry

[andymonk]

Is this symbol the COMPLETE ancient flower of life? I would appreciate any opinions. http://thecompletefloweroflife.blogspot.com/ :eek:X

[Naomi]

I dunno, it sure does taste good though. And that crocodile guy is definately very dateable.

But yeah, did you ever notice how the G looks like a snake holding his plate up on the end of his tail to eat dinner?

[MythMath]

Is a seed not complete...?

[m1thr0s]

I think that the Flower of Life has pretty much always been a kind of mathematical mandala ranging from the simplest to the most complex forms of expression possible. I don't think you're ever going to arrive at a single "most complete" or "most authentic" version of it if that's what you are asking here.

But it should perhaps also be asked...why do you ask? Is there some hidden theory or premise going on here that you would like to be able to prove/disprove or something?

m1thr0s

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

There is plenty of symbolism in that link. Freemasonry has always held this symbol as sacred. What I find intersting is that the "seed" has always been planted, only those looking for it get to view it in bloom!

[andymonk]

There is plenty of symbolism in that link. Freemasonry has always held this symbol as sacred. What I find intersting is that the "seed" has always been planted, only those looking for it get to view it in bloom! Well said;) The symbol is a small part of the continuous pattern of creation.

[m1thr0s]

It would be very nice to see a larger version of that image if you have one anywhere andymonk.

It's a little hard to make out the details at that size...

m1thr0s

[andymonk]

It would be very nice to see a larger version of that image if you have one anywhere andymonk.

It's a little hard to make out the details at that size...

m1thr0sIf you go to the blog,you could take it from there.I dont know how to reduce the size.:no:

[Oblio]

How's this - both from the blog, but I put them in imageshack.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/827/flower4320c485sv3.jpg



http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/748/flowerfinal32200bevw6.jpg

[deviadah]

Some of these flowers remind me of the various Rosy Cross symbols like:
http://www.occultopedia.com/images_/rosy-cross-bee.jpg

[andymonk]

How's this - both from the blog, but I put them in imageshack.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/827/flower4320c485sv3.jpg



http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/748/flowerfinal32200bevw6.jpg I believe,the complete ancient flower of life is an interdimensional tool,a portal,a link back to awareness of the universal consciousness(god,the collective unconscious or whatever you would like to call it). The universal consciousness we were all part of before we entered this material world. The original fol(found in "the osireion" at abydos in egypt)is incomplete because it is only the first layer of three(pic3+4). The complete flower has the other two layers added,making it three dimensional(pic1+2). If you relax(sit three feet away from the screen)and let the flower slowly draw your eyes out of focus,the flower will open. Try and not focus on any one point,blankly stare,take the flower in as a whole. Do not strain your eyes,as it will happen naturally. We do not see with our eyes,we see THROUGH our eyes. Let your mind focus,dont fight it. You may get a headache and itchy eyes,this will quickly disappear. This is not a known science,but if you let it happen,you will be supprised by what appears.:eek: (use the hand drawn flower) 4love and light 2all:)x The complete ancient flower of life is not a stereogram,a magic eye image or any other man made optical illusion.

[MythMath]

I can't see the flower for the thorns... :sad:

I like more curves... :p

[andymonk]

I can't see the flower for the thorns... :sad:

I like more curves... :p At the highest level of freemasonry they know,the COMPLETE ancient flower of life is an inter dimensional symbol. This is world secret societies ultimate secret.:yes:

[MythMath]

I won't tell... ;)

[andymonk]

I won't tell... ;) The COMPLETE ancient flower of life contains the tree,the fruit,the egg and the seed of life(pic1). The complete flower also contains the three dimensional metatron cube which holds all the platonic solids(pic2+3). Not just the building blocks of life,but the building blocks of creation itself. :yes:x

[andymonk]

The COMPLETE FOL contains the metatron cube,all the platonic solids and the kabbalahs tree of life. This could be said to be the building blocks of life its self.:yes::eek:

[andymonk]

The COMPLETE FOL contains the metatron cube,all the platonic solids and the kabbalahs tree of life. This could be said to be the building blocks of life its self.:yes: The fruit of life overlaid with the metatron cube which contains all the platonic solids.

[andymonk]

The COMPLETE FOL contains the metatron cube,all the platonic solids and the kabbalahs tree of life. This could be said to be the building blocks of life its self.:yes:..................... This may help any seekers:) http://www.sangraal.com/library/dedicated.htm

[andymonk]

The incomplete fol is found all over the ancient world. The oldest and original incomplete fol is found on several pillars within "the osireion" at abydos in egypt. The osireion(the tomb of osiris)is known to be the oldest building in egypt. To this day,no egyptologists or archaeologists can or wont give a date for the flower. Neither will they explain why,who or what the flower was put there for. Any opinions? I believe the flower has been delibarately ignored by mainstream science,so world secret societies can keep the flowers secrets hidden.:sad: http://www.users.bigpond.com/MSN/gary_fletcher/osireion.html (http://www.users.bigpond.com/MSN/gary_fletcher/osireion.html) http://www.grahamhancock.com/library/fotg/c45-5.htm

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I believe the flower has been delibarately ignored so world secret societies can keep the flowers secrets hidden.:sad:
I doubt it. There is no logic to such a deduction.

[m1thr0s]

it hasn't really been ignored at all. I think that we place too much reliance on the idea that "hidden" knowledge is already somehow mastered by "hidden" people that are secretly in control of things...

most of what is actually left to us from history on this thing is just the glyph itself. People into mathematics have played around with it extensively but hardly anybody has really developed any kind of comprehensive doctrine around it. It appears to be another one of those things that needs to be reapproached from scratch...much like Abrahadabra itself really.

m1thr0s

[andymonk]

I doubt it. There is no logic to such a deduction.Every inscription,hyroglyph and painting discovered in egypt is studied to death. Do you not find it strange that a symbol found in the oldest building in egypt is ignored?:confused:

[andymonk]

The incomplete ancient flower of life is found all over the ancient world(pics..scotland,india,china,japan+israel). I think its more than a coincedence that so many ancient civilizations,thousands of years and miles apart should find the same symbol sacred.:yes:

[andymonk]

The incomplete flower is also found in austria,turkey,spain,italy,france and many other countries all over the world.:yes:

[andymonk]

The flower of life was known to the ancients as the "creation mandala".

[m1thr0s]

yeah? so which "ancients" are these? Cuz that's the whole problem here really...despite the fact that we find its artistic presence as far back in time as the Temple of Osiris (some 6000 years ago), very little seems to exist to inform us how it was perceived or what - if any - organized thought constructs were directly associated to it. So we are left with a very powerful symbol and no real idea what anybody actually thought about it or why it might have been venerated...more importantly...how it might have been used.

We've discussed this symbol quite a lot around here though. I'd say it's become a real favorite with some of us. There are many things we can identify just on the basis of its geometry that are not trivial matters at all...the fact that it contains the entire Tree of Life for instance...the fact that other prominent magickal symbols seem to fit it like a glove and so on.

m1thr0s

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Every inscription,hyroglyph and painting discovered in egypt is studied to death. Do you not find it strange that a symbol found in the oldest building in egypt is ignored?:confused:

Nope. Just because as yet no Egyptologist has come up with something concrete to say about the symbol doesn't mean it has been ignored. Egyptologists don't ignore stuff at all. They catalogue it and then years later someone else comes along and works it out. To suggest that somehow there's a conspiracy to cover up the symbol might work on an episode of Relic Hunter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relic_Hunter) but in the real world there is just no logic to such an argument at all. It's just another symbol.

The incomplete ancient flower of life is found all over the ancient world(pics..scotland,india,china,japan+israel). I think its more than a coincedence that so many ancient civilizations,thousands of years and miles apart should find the same symbol sacred

People used the same argument for the Pyramids, and couldn't have been further from the truth. The reason it's found in varying forms around the world -at completely different points in time- is because they are circles and not even the same circles. There is no mystery here.

[Oblio]

Isn't it obvious, they're artists renditions of stargates. The truth is being covered up because the governments that are now in control of the gates don't want anyone to know about it...

People used the same argument for the Pyramids, and couldn't have been further from the truth. The reason it's found in varying forms around the world -at completely different points in time- is because they are circles and not even the same circles. There is no mystery here.

Good point, not to mention that there were huge amounts of trade and therefore cultural sharing throughout history. Similarities in knotwork art can be found throughout most ancient cultures, from all over Asia, the Middle East, Europe, and the North.

[m1thr0s]

I think we have lost track of just how many advantages we enjoy (at the level of information) here in the modern era. People forget that before Napolean came along Ancient Egypt was pretty much of a lost memory to the modern world. That wasn't so long ago and there has been a gradually increasing explosion in ancient knowledge that has only really picked up a lot of steam in the last 20-30 years or so. Internet access makes scouring the globe for obscure occult data a walk in the park...but not 30 years ago about the only people who knew anything much about this stuff were weird old geezers that spent most of their time reading books...often in foreign languages... Go back another 30 years and the situation is grimmer than that.

So you know...we should delight in all this information access and run like hell with it I think but it's a little silly to expect generations previous to ours to be operating at the same level of knowledge...it just ain't so.

m1thr0s

[andymonk]

This may be of interest. I believe the symbol on this knights templar tombstone (pic1), found within the st magnus cathedral in kirkwall,orkney,scotland(pic2), is a representation of the egg of life(sacred geometry ,pic3),which is found within the first layer of the complete flower of life. http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif x Any opinons?

[MythMath]

andymonk, yer preachin' to the choir here, already... ;)

How do you personally access and utilize the
energies inherent in these ancient geometries...?

Are you an artist...?

[m1thr0s]

This may be of interest. I believe the symbol on this knights templar tombstone (pic1), found within the st magnus cathedral in kirkwall,orkney,scotland(pic2), is a representation of the egg of life(sacred geometry ,pic3),which is found within the first layer of the complete flower of life. http://www.davidicke.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif x Any opinons?could be...this symbol has been linked to the gnostics, among other groups, so why shouldn't the Templars be aware of it as well?

where are you trying to go with any of this? we already know that this symbol is found all over the place spanning an impressive stretch of time.

Your use of such terms as the "incomplete flower of life" are erroneous. The Flower of Life is not incomplete. There are many layers to this symbol...actually...infinite layers if you want to be exact. It will never achieve "completeness" in itself since it is an infinitely expanding symbol. It may qualify as one of the oldest fractal geometries ever observed, among other things. This whole principle of repeating geometrical patterns has been explored by all kinds of people from all over the world.

m1thr0s

[andymonk]

andymonk, yer preachin' to the choir here, already... ;)

How do you personally access and utilize the
energies inherent in these ancient geometries...?

Are you an artist...?No,im not an artist. I am a self educated working class guy,who thinks hes discovered the complete flower of life. If you follow the steps,you will see where the flower helps you to access.:yes:

[andymonk]

could be...this symbol has been linked to the gnostics, among other groups, so why shouldn't the Templars be aware of it as well?

where are you trying to go with any of this? we already know that this symbol is found all over the place spanning an impressive stretch of time.

Your use of such terms as the "incomplete flower of life" are erroneous. The Flower of Life is not incomplete. There are many layers to this symbol...actually...infinite layers if you want to be exact. It will never achieve "completeness" in itself since it is an infinitely expanding symbol. It may qualify as one of the oldest fractal geometries ever observed, among other things. This whole principle of repeating geometrical patterns has been explored by all kinds of people from all over the world.

m1thr0sThe original fol is incomplete(pic). It is incomplete because it is only the first layer of three. The complete flower has the other two layers added. The complete flower is a ringed sample of the continuious pattern of creation.

[m1thr0s]

well, your arguments aren't exactly rational and you also don't seem able to understand why that is. all levels of the flower of life are complete in themselves...there is no one "absolute" complete flower arrangement...there are only more complex and less complex arrangements.

if your quest leads to a greater understanding then it's all been justified in any case so you should probably keep on looking for whatever it is you are looking for...but if it fails to lead into something you can take action upon, you may have started from one or more faulty assumptions.

perseverance furthers,

m1thr0s

[andymonk]

well, your arguments aren't exactly rational and you also don't seem able to understand why that is. all levels of the flower of life are complete in themselves...there is no one "absolute" complete flower arrangement...there are only more complex and less complex arrangements.

if your quest leads to a greater understanding then it's all been justified in any case so you should probably keep on looking for whatever it is you are looking for...but if it fails to lead into something you can take action upon, you may have started from one or more faulty assumptions.

perseverance furthers,

m1thr0sHave you contemplated the flower i present? Can you show me any of these flowers you speak of?

[m1thr0s]

have you followed any of our other conversations on the flower of life on these forums? we have discussed this quite a bit in other topics.

you need to understand that when you keep referring to *the complete* flower, you are failing to provide any context that makes it more complete than the more simplified versions. I have looked at all kinds of variations on this symbol...probably hundreds at least. At the end of the day I still find the basic flower as outlined in the temple of Osiris to be the most immediately useful. Why? well, in my case, because it coordinates perfectly with both the Tree of Life and the Tetractys of the Decad and from this coordination I can construct an energy grid that contains all contingencies of space & time continuum.

You need to look to what is actually most useful when you start bandying the word *complete* about. Compete in what sense? If it's more complete just because it's bigger or more complex, that doesn't really amount to much of anything. Is a house more complete that takes up a whole city block than a house that does not? The argument is nonsensical as it stands...you need a standard of *completeness* or you have no way to substantiate that kind of claim. Is the number 10 less complete than the number 100 just because you can fit 10 10's inside of it? What of 1000, 10,000, 1,000,000...which number is more complete? The same problem arises with symbols.

The flower of life is an infinitely expandable symbolism...where are you drawing the line here and why there? If we should add on yet another layer does it become *overly complete*? Why? That's what is missing from your argument. You may even be right for all I know but you haven't provided any way for us to validate that.

You have said:
The original fol is incomplete(pic). It is incomplete because it is only the first layer of three. The complete flower has the other two layers added. The complete flower is a ringed sample of the continuious pattern of creation....which is at least a partial explanation of your reasoning (thanks!) but let me ask you this. Who gives a shit? What I mean is...2 layers, 3 layers, 200 layers, 3000 layers...who cares? Why does more layers make a thing more complete? How many layers makes a *complete* layer cake?
technically, the answer to this is one since even one layer amounts to a complete cake, but this is not the *common usage* of the term. In that case the answer would be two, since at least two layers is what people would normally expect. That expectation becomes our *context* but don't expect it to go over real big at any weddings. A wedding cake may require a minimum of 5 layers to a maximum of 15 or more layers, depending on what the cake itself will bear. That is why context matters. Without it we have no way to judge a things performance. So what is our context here...why is 3 layers such a big deal? Why not 6?Look...I wouldn't even give a crap if this were not an important symbol but it is. So in that case we have to be careful about what we say is or is not relevant I think. It's possible to miss the point completely with something like this. My position is that simple is useful and the last symbol you posted is the one that strikes me as the most useful. Now I can cite good examples of this *usefulness* and have done so in other places. I can show, for instance, that the basic 19 (optical) rings of the traditional flower balances the 19 paths of the TwinStar...or...if you don't happen to care about that...fits the *9 chambers* of the Tetractys so perfectly that every chamber carries it own unique *flower petal*, balancing the outer edges of each chamber. This at least gives us a context...how it coordinates with other dynamic magickal symbols. Adding 2 more layers to this might be cool and everything but it won't really be any more *complete*...as a matter of fact it will be visually cluttered so will tend to be less *useful* when it comes to communicating its worth to others.

proof:
662

m1thr0s

[andymonk]

The COMPLETE ancient flower of life is an interdimensional tool. Have you followed the steps and contemplated the complete flower?

[m1thr0s]

all magickal tools are "interdimensional tools", so you are relying on an empty rhetoric here.

sure, I have *contemplated* every form I have seen thus far. there is nothing more *complete* about the 3 layered version than the basic version as I have said.

It doesn't matter how many times you keep returning to the same erroneous assertion...it's still going to be erroneous unless you can demonstrate some good reason why it would not be. more simply is not better in all cases...

there is something very fundamental with respect to symbolic heirarchies that you aren't acknowledging. In magickal squares for instance, it is actually the simpler forms that outrank the more complex. The Qamea of Saturn is the first and most basic magickal square but magickal squares can be built on many levels of complexity. They still all find their root in the Qamea of Saturn. Complexity is a function of specialization, generally speaking, so the Qamea of Luna is not more complete than the Qamea of Saturn just because it's bigger and involves many more squares. The exact opposite of what you are asserting tends to be the way it really works in both numerical and geometrical heirarchies. Life itself builds from the very simple to the very complex and the highly complex is not more complete than the very simple...it's just more highly specialized.

From a Taoist perspective all numbers have their basis in "nothing", or 0. From a classical Greek perspective the emphasis shifts to the monad, or 1, but the same principle applies. In geometry, we have the tetrahedron, the root of all 3-dimensional objects definable in lines and points. It is these root values that are more definable as "complete" forms since they can be reduced no further yet serve as core foundation stones to infinitely complex expansions. your entire usage of the term *complete* is antithetical to everything that term ordinarily implies...it is ass-backwards, in a word. The more complex a thing is the less likely it is to qualify as *complete* unless you establish a specific context that makes it so. A car may said to be complete that consists of an engine, a frame, a body, a transmission, wheels, navigational controls and so on. Yet a modern day limousine is not more complete than model T ford so long as our context is simply "cars".

If you assert that a certain form is *complete*...the logical question is *why*...what makes it especially complete if it can logically be added upon or subtracted from and still yield some functional totality. I'm afraid the term as it is being applied here is simply an oxymoron and I wouldn't even care save that it seems like an especially charismatic falsehood for some reason.

note: there may yet emerge some sound reasoning but so far no you haven't revealed one. we run into this problem in other areas as well. Why do the "hexagrams" stop at 6 lines? Why not keep on going into 7 or 8 or 10, 12 etc...? But at least in terms of the hexagrams there are certain underscoring reasons for this. I only mention it to demonstrate that I am not especially opposed to any rational explanation, should one be found to exist.

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

...an especially charismatic falsehood...
;)

[andymonk]

Unlike other mandala,the complete ancient flower of life has no design,measurement or straight lines. The complete flower grows organically from the first circle onwards,it draws itself. This is one of the reasons why the flower is called the creation mandala. I forgot to add...... the flower should be contemplated in darkness,only have the computer on,no lights. http://www.modlikeproductions.com/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[andymonk]

Unlike other mandala,the complete ancient flower of life has no design,measurement or straight lines. The complete flower grows organically from the first circle onwards,it draws itself. This is one of the reasons why the flower is called the creation mandala. I forgot to add...... the flower should be contemplated in darkness,only have the computer on,no lights. http://www.modlikeproductions.com/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif The point of no lights is to get tunnel vision.

[andymonk]

This may be of interest....... http://www.near-death.com/geometry.html

[andymonk]

Is it more than a coincidence that the vortex lattice mirrors the complete flower of life? http://jilawww.colorado.edu/research/modelsystems.html

[andymonk]

You may be interested to know,someones taken notice. ;) http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_sage1.htm

[m1thr0s]

it really doesn't matter how many morons support the idea andymonk...this whole notion of "the complete" flower of life vs the incomplete one is garbage...just as nonsensical as the the idea that it contains a reptilian intelligence *if you look closely*...

believe what you like but the argument itself has no logical teeth. the layered versions are simply layered and...if anything...serve mainly to confuse the more useful underscoring mathematics of their non-layered versions.

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

you know what andymonk...this thread is spam and you're a spammer. I've seen this same stupid topic posted by you at several other sites. You're on some sort of preaching campaign here and you don't have the skill or inclination to discuss this shit intelligently.

take it elsewhere...I'm done with you.

user banned.

m1thr0s