Astral Timetravel

[deviadah]

Could it be possible to astral time travel back into yourself and change yourself earlier in life, and then return changed, improved, or whatever you will? And I mean that the change made is permanent, not some lucid dream, but reality!

Or am I out on a limb?
http://www.witchcraftmagic.com/images/astralproj.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timetravel)

[Naomi]

Honestly i was completely convinced earlier this year that I had in fact done so with regularity for several days in a row, now it makes no sense to me at all nor have I attempted it again.

I had the distinct sensation that it was a bit dangerous. Who knows.

But! You know if you look at the koshas it is not outside the realm of possibility that our highest bodies exist outside of these sort of parameters of "time",

If we're only shifting things around, maybe time is just a word we use to describe massive paradigm shifts and what feels like "time travel" is just deep mind rearrangement.

[deviadah]

Sure I get what you're saying, but what I mean is if you go back to your body as a kid and do something/say something that when you return to the present you know how to speak Japanese... well you get what I am saying?

Perhaps it could enforce a massive paradox?
And also difficult, if perhaps on the brink of impossible?

[Naomi]

I'm not exactly sure I believe in the concept of time, even after having being exposed to the whole mindfucking experience of believing I travelled it.

Oh partitioning - the human mind breaking things into sectioned experiences that seem like time, sure...

I get it, but if time doesn't exist for the Tao should it exist in any sort of life dominating form for me? I'm not sure believing in time allows us to gain anything for it.

What have you experimented with so far?

[deviadah]

Well I am not saying I believe in time, but I can't deny its existence. It's like saying I don't believe in the facist corporate elite yet its there in my face as I walk out the door! What the collective believes is what is truth, till the minority creates a change. Living in the present, or the infinite now of existence can't co-exist with the TV-guide (for normal people that is).

I have not experimented with astral time travel other than thinking about it. So in this field I am a complete neophyte (if that).

Although I feel the subject deserves discussion. And so does time.

"The times will never change:
that which does not exist is constant!"

“Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in.” - Henry David Thoreau

[Naomi]

Of course, it certainly does. I don't claim to have scratched surface, I'm just being cautious, the same way you would weird (edit: WEAR I mean, wtf is wrong with my spelling tonight?!) shark repellant after nearly getting killed by sharks.

Hey, I'm not sure of anything. All I know is it's a pretty heavy topic. I bet Anibis has a lot to add...

[deviadah]

I bet Anibis has a lot to add...
Then he should do that!

:dull: (this face = patiently waiting)

[Anibis]

Did someone summon me?

Heh heh... Well... I kind of think that ALL there is is time. There's a mage in Australia named Orryelle Defenestrate Bascule who is very prominent. HE termed the phrase 'TimemiT' as a form of Tiamat.... it is palindromic, you will see...

Without making a GIANT post, I'd say that to really get an Idea of how a Time-positive position is very much in line with a Will-positive position, one should read 'Henri Bergson', or if you will Gilles Deleuze ON Henri Bergson.... Time is becomming... it is the blur, rather than the freeze-frame... TO suggest that the universe is movement itself is to suggest that time is primary; Chaos is the originary 'stew', on which nouns and identities and points of subjectivity are so many whirlpools. Coopted time is a mechanism, yet its so easy to think that just cuz we live in a codified, coopted time (The corpse of Tiamat apres Marduk's disembowlment), that Time must be non-existent. THis to me is the ultimate trap... the 'double bind' of the Illusionist sages who built the firmament (Of which I am a preserver, don't get me wrong). Out of time, space emerged. Time is pure quality, pure difference, while space is quantity, the grid.... it is a logical subset, the product of an observer imposing a measurement upon change itself... time has no 'direction' in particular, it is flux, and boiling noise out of which filtered islands of expression emerge... Timefullness... Time is the serpent, the dragon, the sea of chaos.... if our vehicles are aright, we can go anywhere in time we like. We are made of time. Will is time, bent in a line towards the unfolding of target potentialities... Timefullness, not timelessness, is what I like... Timelessness is the ultimate victory of the 'ideal point' projected from the apex of the pyramid. Forever receding, yet forever compelling people to pursue it... carrot on a stick. Just step outside the pyramid and look around... there is nothing to escape to... all of a sudden, that pyramid seems fragile rather than terrible... we just need to shake people of the 'indoors' mentality.... then the temples are holy again.... So say I.

-Anibis

[MythMath]

Okay, now that kinda reads like a forward to a book...! :p:yes:;)

[Naomi]

Wowww nicely said Anibis. Of course I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this subject.

[m1thr0s]

yeah...that was a great visual...still is actually...

m1thr0s

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I'm not sure that timelines aren't already being altered. Time and again I come across something that strikes me as differing from what I remember. Unfortunately I haven't kept notes, but when these things do seem to occur it leaves me questioning my memory and asking myself how come I seem to be the only one to have noticed a shift.

[Anibis]

Anyone here read Ursula Leguin's 'The Lathe of Heaven'. It deals in alteration of timelines....
-Anibis

[deviadah]

HE termed the phrase 'TimemiT' as a form of Tiamat...
I like that!

We are made of time. Will is time, bent in a line towards the unfolding of target potentialities... Timefullness, not timelessness, is what I like...
Although I really like what you wrote it still doesn't answer my query, if indeed it can be answered (or you did but I failed to understand).

If it is possible to have a out-of-body experience out of will (which it is), then why should it not be possible to do the same and travel through time, alter events and return to your body in a changed enviroment.

On another matter you've maybe heard of time wave zero and Terrence McKenna?

Well, time can be measured with the progression of novelty. For example it took millions of years for human beings to invent the wheel, several thousand before the invention of the motor car, decades till the rocket saw the light of day, years till genetics began and so fort. In short the evolution of the human species is happening at an ever-increasing rate.

Now according to Terrence McKenna and his time wave zero there will be a point, December 21st 2012 to be exact, when novelty will be increasing once every few hundredths of a second until, finally, in Sedona Arizona, the time machine is invented. At this point time machines will start returning from the future (time machine won’t appear pre-2012 because they can’t travel further back in time than the actual date of their invention, or so the theory goes).

To paraphrase these ideas I insert here an interesting quote from the film WAKING LIFE (http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/w/waking-life-script-transcript-linklater.html):

"If we’re looking at the highlights of human development, you have to look at the evolution of the organism... and then at the development of its interaction with the environment. Now, interestingly, what you’re looking at here are three strings:
biological, anthropological-- development of the cities, cultures-- and cultural, which is human expression.

Now, what you’ve seen here is the evolution of populations, not so much the evolution of individuals. And in addition, if you look at the time scales that's involved here-- two billion years for life, six million years for the hominid, years for mankind as we know it--
you're beginning to see the telescoping nature of the evolutionary paradigm.

And then when you get to agricultural, when you get to scientific revolution and industrial revolution... ...you're seeing a further telescoping of this evolutionary time.

What that means is that as we go through the new evolution, it's gonna telescope to the point we should be able to see it manifest itself... within our lifetime, within this generation."

[Anibis]

What an interesting idea... so the Dec 21st 2012 date will sort of represent a cross-over point to where things really start to get weird and non-linear.... Somehow I suspected that, just don't know what form it could take... hey, maybe Mckenna's right... I figured that one thing that might happen is a sort of temporal/structural meltdown, as caused by the public exposure of calendrics... people will start to measure time differently across the board and it will have a massive effect on social and psychological orders... For this reason, I've been interested to build calendars as 'life-rafts' such that there would be some form of continuity possible after this time.. I also perfer these things personalized, so I am not forced to hop on board someone elses raft....

[deviadah]

It would be cool if future generation, when writing history books, wrote Before2012 and After2012 instead of BC and AD.

Who knows what will happen, I think it will be a spiritual meltdown amongst other things...

2012 (http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/)

Mayan Calendar (http://sacred-texts.com/time/cal/mayacal.htm)

[Anibis]

It would be better if they just shifted to entirely new counts, and dropped the whole linear -300,-200,-100,0,100,200,300 thing... I'm up for seeing what the Mayan Calendar has to offer en mass, and also what a world in which there were many many little secret community calendars, Hundreds of thousands, would be like....
-Anibis

[deviadah]

I got one I live by:

The Now that has passed

The Now

The Now coming

[Anibis]

That's pretty much similar to my thought on it. Time that is... Not really a calendar, though, more like a model... A calendar would be scripted onto some orbiting body or other, one would think... Time is the water... calendars are the aquaducts.... so to speak...
-Anibis

[Naomi]

Tibetan Buddhism actually has this whole division of the study of "time masters" certain boddhisattvas who have ownership of motion and thus, time.

These beings if I remember correctly are usually reserved for thangkas with a black background. There's a couple of them specifically, Mahakala for instance, that are documented as being such masters of reality they are beyond time and sort of just skip around it.

[deviadah]

Some resources:

Time Travel in the Astral (winning the lottery) (http://www.astralvoyage.com/projection/timetravel_english.html)

HDR - Time Travel (http://www.fluxcap.com/astral_time_travel.htm)

The Time Traveller (fucked up) (http://paranormal.about.com/od/timeanddimensiontravel/youtube/yt_time_travele.htm)

Nostradamus and Time Travel (http://nostradamus.time-loops.net/TimeTravel.htm)

[Asguard]

This wouldn't be like change the past through the astral plane?

[Transcix]

Anibis, your description of time is excellent, but I worry that it may make time out to be more complex than it actually is? It's crucial to remember that the complications surrounding a clear vision of time and of space-time are OUR complications, ego-based and in the way of self-realization.. and when one Sees clearly.. time is also seen clearly.. it is not so much an independent thing.. but an aspect of universal procession that is simple to describe...

The problem is that a simple description is one thing, while a simple ARGUMENT for a given perspective about something is entirely different.. so it is not easy to CONVEY what time is SUMMARILY, because time is so intertwined with each person's reality, in different ways depending on a person's paradigm.. in terms of their spiritual beliefs and everything they imply.. it's all contingent on time.. which is the same thing as saying that time is all contingent on them.. that's mutual contingency for you...

So when new-age spirituality talks about time and parallel realities and the like so often as it does, I just shake my head, because it's truly foolish to discuss things like parallel realities with people who can't understand time in the first place.. from a teaching perspective, it is a good example of how a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.. like in the same way that ESP abilities can distract one from the path of self-realization, so can cumbersome notions regarding time sway one's heart strings of desire astray into delusional paradoxes of seemingly supported logic...

I'd also like to mention something about 2012 since it was brought up.. I don't know for sure what it will entail.. it will not be "bad", I know that, because I am ready.. but there are many possibilities.. and it seems misguided to me that everyone assumes 2012 is a start as opposed to a finish.. if we're talking about solidification of timelines, maybe you're supposed to solidify your timeline BY 2012.. and then upon 2012 there will be stronger divine law so, for example, if you're a good and wise person you won't be accidentally swept up if the rest of the world decides to go into a nuclear war.. now this kind of perspective hinges on two things that seem contrary to popular opinion on the subject.. 1) solidification of the timelines doesn't have to be a bad thing, limits could be good (only ever constituents of a framework towards POTENTIALLY limitless freedom), after all we are not beyond our limits, but rather are our limits our power, and 2) if you do not ascend come 2012 it's not necessarily a bad thing, I mean perhaps--I say *perhaps*, for all of this--there are younger and older souls, some more or less advanced than others.. in which case wouldn't it be bad if a soul not ready for ascension were to accidentally ascend before they're ready?.. indeed, if you miss the ascension, then could you TRULY have been ready?... think not in terms of fortune here, I would say, it is blind....

[deviadah]

...in which case wouldn't it be bad if a soul not ready for ascension were to accidentally ascend before they're ready?
A very good point... there is a 2012 thread called: What's with all this 2012 crap, anyway? (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=2987)

...it is blind...
In regione caecorum rex est luscus!* - Erasmus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erasmus)
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king!:cool: