Chaos

[Luke Saint]

Chaos isn't about doing what you think is against popular belief. Chaos is not about acting like a total ass and thinking the world will disdain you for the act of being different. Chaos is the total randomness of experience that one faces on the road of life. Chaos is reading all you can on how to act and then making your own way of it. Chaos is the true Will. Peace.

[Sheosyrath]

Indeed, perhaps you're starting to come around Luke. Chaos is the true Will. I like that.

[Anibis]

"In Fact, chaos is characterized less by the abscence of determination thatn by the infinite speed with which they take shape and vanish. This is not a movement from one determination to the other but, on the contrary, the impossibility of a connection between them, since one does not appear without the other having already disappeared, and one appears as disappearance when the other appears as outline. Chaos is not an inert or stationary state, nor is it a chance mixture Chaos makes chaotic and undoes every consistencey in the infinite. The problem of philosophy is to acquire a consistency without losing the infinite into which thought plunges. To give consistency without losing anything of the infinite is very different from the problem of science which seeks to provide chaos with reference points, on condition of renouncing infinite movements and speeds and of carrying out a limitation of speed first of all."

What is Philosophy?, by Deleuze and Guattari

(There you go, Kuroyagi!)
-Anibis

[Kuroyagi]

What is Philosophy?, by Deleuze and Guattari

(There you go, Kuroyagi!)
-Anibis
Yes yes I hear you Thoth and heard you in the last days, when I casually checked some bookstores en passant (they didnt have it) but now I already spent too much cash for books this month, but I'll get it for sure...of course the problem is that- to be honest- I can neither *imagine* chaos nor the infinite but one can still try defining it or somehow "experience" parts of it. "Without loosing the infinite.." this is something that philosophy seems to have in common with works of art (if one adheres to above musings)...only that the definition/application of it in art is not as clear-cut as in phil. maybe this has its price too, but I like what he writes..

[m1thr0s]

so...why do Chaotes give a crap about Will anyway, just out of curiosity? Why is it that they seem to be doting on Thelema Magick hand and foot (as a matter of fact) without actually calling it that? Do Chaotes lack a *magickal will* of their own or something?

Chaos as a principle makes plenty of sense but when the matter turns to magick it just sort of seems to be all about being able to play the game of magick without paying any of the price!

If I had a serious magickal model of reality to introduce into the world, I would be very hesitant to call it Chaos Magick for fear of making intelligent people snicker in advance of the facts! Are Chaotes aware of that? Perhaps there is no such thing as a serious Chaos Magickal theorist anyway so they would simply have no way to know this!

There you go...gambit tossed...but it's all in fun gang...don't get the wrong idea here...

m1thr0s

[Sheosyrath]

:D

Will brings form out of "Khaos".
Thelema isn't a cool enough word. Plus we already use one Crowley word "Magick" ;)
I believe the majority of the real "Chaotes" I know, that I would consider both friends and fellow practioners, don't deal much in the way of Thelemic Magick. We're more like eclectic urban shamans. Anyways, you're right. We don't want to pay the price. We're hustlers of the magickal world. Well, we used to be.

You have to take into account our recent quitting of "Chaos Magick" in favor of Khaos Magick. ;) Chaos Magick is all fucked up right now, the brain and heart are in good condition, but the body is just shotty. Remodeling is needed - but - I don't believe there is a word that explains it better than Chaos. Anyways, my words and ideas aren't flowing very free at all right now, I'll come back with a better soul.

[m1thr0s]

hmmm...well that's a start I guess. I agree Khaos is cooler...cuter too...

You know, "paying the price" isn't such a bad thing if you pay the right price for the right benefit...doesn't mean you all have to join the choir and become a bunch of altar boys or something...

Just means you'll need a few core standards that can serve to mobilize and, yes, to some extent, define the group, it's objectives and its methods etc...

hell...maybe I should apply...I'm down with *urban shamanism*...lol...

m1thr0s

[Sheosyrath]

Well when you put it that way, you're right. Me and Naomi touched on this on OF when I came up with the new Rules of Khaos Magick. She then invented the "Khaos Magick Church of non-Chaos Magick" Our goal is to, like you're suggesting, more rigidly define the tenets of our magickal practice by making an actual system out of it, where as true "Chaos Magick" is NOT a 'system'. Khaos Magick is based on the "Art of Creation" - and the purpose is to upgrade consciousness, to 'become' and create yourself.

To quote my friend zeroflye from occultforums:

"I agree, and speak of clear mind devoid of doubt,
that Sheosyrath is also correct in that;

"WE should be teaching CREATION to the WORLD. Write, draw, paint, do what you do and don't ever be afraid to hide your ideas and thoughts, who gives a flying fuck if anyone else agrees with you or if they think you're a moron, create for yourself, and in turn create yourself."

This is perhaps the only reletively strong point in time that I can feel magic going, in the future. I've attempted writing on Creation/Artist Magic for some time, and indeed have upheld a personal belief that Art is the sole creationary act, whatever it may be, an expression of the self can at once be magically effective by itself, and change the world in it's turn.

Delving into the creative potential of the human mind should be as the "Great Work" of this age. No less.

Cutting off the fat right now, who are those chosen few that really control the world?
Who are the magicians in this age of disney and botox? I'll point you to Star or People magazine for that one."

And again from my book Occultus Conturbo:

“The rebirth of Chaos as the creationary act; art, birth and death, is very much desired by the cosmos at this time. And I see great things for its future. The "next step" is a merging of the mother (Discordian), child (Chaos) and father (Art).
When Everything is True, then argument has officially died.”
- Zeroflye

And those 'rules' I was talking about ;)

The Three Golden Rules
Rule 1 – Everything is true; nothing is permitted.
Rule 2 – Don’t do whatever you want. Instead, don’t do anything.
Rule 3 – Be a hippie, just like Jesus was. (hippeis for Naomi)

The Three Silver Rules
Rule 1 – It doesn’t take any hands to walk a path.
Rule 2 – Everything you will ever need, you already have.
Rule 3 – As above, so Below.

The whole Urban Shaman thing is something I thought up to explain what I am and 'we' are. (Meaning people who decide to use the system we're creating.) It's like we slip into the urban spirit world to work our magick. We aren't dealing with faeries and nature spirits, animal guides - but instead industrial thought forms, astral programming, and the consciousness of pills. Instead of eating psychedelic roots in the woods, we're in back alleys, tripping on blotter paper LSD. But yea - I guess Urban Shaman fits a lot of things, I really like the title, in fact I'm writing a book called just that.

[m1thr0s]

Personally I think Khaos Magick needs a little more tech and a lot less rhetoric...Khaos is what it is...this isn't going to change. Rhetoric is a game...games are cool but there's never any shortage and the actual need is fairly thin...

Boost the technology and you'll rule the roost in my view...that's what's really lacking in all of this...

That's pretty much my own bias in general though. Whether it really works for Khaos Magick as some kind of movement or not is anybody's best guess. Mine would be that it would. People take to all the soundbites just fine...for awhile...but it gets really old really fast.

What you really need is an engine. Teach the world how to actually harness this stuff and you're in a whole other league, man...

m1thr0s

[Sheosyrath]

I suppose the basic technology behind this concept is the re-creation of the self.

When you are born, others create you. The environment, the people around you, what people think of you, these things create you as a child. The idea is to strip yourself of everything you are, and rebuild yourself according to your own specifications.

It's neither truly left or right, because the aim is both the unification with the universe and the sustainment of individuality - at the same time.

Now I must introduce the first - The Doombringer. The Doombringer was the birth of these concepts, to me. He was at first an experimental godform I attempted to create. I was trying to make like a "Chaos Holy Guardian Angel". Anyways, skipping ahead... The Doombringer is the vehicle I use to achieve my goals. He is a personification of the purest khaos. Short and and to the point, "The Doombringer" is the the nothing that is everything. (Or simply, he is everything.) Yet the Doombringer is also YOU; the invoker. Now you would think invoking a God of everything would make you... everything; but what if you could pick and choose which parts of everything you wanted? A God of everything will manifest any way, since nothing is outside its limits... so finally getting down to the main point.

The goal is achieved by stripping yourself of everything that you think you are, and then deciding by yourself, what YOU want to be. Then you create the concept of what you want to be, and slowly use invocation of your chosen godform and intense (usually altered) meditation to bring a state of 'being' that god to you. Once you no longer feel separate from that power, and you're the way you want to be, then I suppose you have achieved success in the first degree. Simply making slight alterations in the concepts and intent will change your results. This creation of the self extends into the macrocosm as well, as below, so above! When you have done this, I honestly believe that the universe will open up a sea of possibility for you. While with my method you are also becoming -everything- however The Doombringer doesn't have to be used, he isn't the patron God of KHAOS MAGICK or anything, he's just my personal Godform. (However, he loves to meet new people.)

Sometimes when I'm losing a pool game, I just mutter an invocation of the Doombringer, and my shots get much sturdier.

Anyways, thats my ideas about the basic idea of the 'creation of the self' which is what the core of these ideas is. There is more to "Khaos Magick" but you inquired about my basic technology so there ya go. Took a long time to type up all pretty and such. I'll be here, thanks for challenging my concepts, I'm honored.

[MythMath]

Boost the Roost, baby... :laugh:

[Sheosyrath]

To be honest what I just went on about is probably only one way to achieve such a goal as the re-creation of the self. Part of the point is also experimentation, and the implementation of personal techniques and technology.

[m1thr0s]

sure. those are valid points but they aren't especially new points, except to some I guess...people who never think about this stuff at all mainly...

for those that do you'll probably get very little argument in principle...some semantics maybe but nothing major. And yet the how is still left hanging in the balance.

It may not be enough to imagine that this is always unique to each individual since this is usually just a candy-coated dodge. Every breath everybody takes is unique to each individual...what of it...

Breakthrough solutions have more to do with commonalities than individual differences and that's where the tech comes in...bridging those commonalities and thereby producing...not so much universal solutions as solutions that fit the exact situation at hand for as many people as possible...which is all that really matters right here and now.

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

AN then tech creates commonalities of practice, and on it goes... at least Khaos Magic affords us the ability step outside, prior to engaging a (Hopefully) better thought out tech thatn was previously possible... That's what I got out of CMT: that I could 'tweak' the magickal engines, if I so desired... and I did, and I have, of course... I agree with m1thr0s, though, taht, ultimately, a solid magickal methodology that is valid across many different subjective practitioner is the thing... Not no much a philosophical 'call to arms' which CMT does well, but those arms themselves... A couple example of this on this site...
-Anibis

[Sheosyrath]

That why I said, I think at least, that both unification (or commonality) and individuality are important; rather than just say one or the other. True, the re-creation of the self leans more towards individuality, and the tech isn't hammered yet, but I think with time and some thought I can make something of this.

Most of my initial efforts at talking to people about this resulted in the response of "You can't create YOURSELF! You were created! That makes no sense." so while it's not really new, I haven't seen anyone pushing creation like I want to. Perhaps the re-creation of the self towards a more common goal is required; I don't know, I'll have to think on it.

Honestly, I'm a scatterbrain - and the previous abuse of strong illicit substances has partially crippled the speed and coherency of my thought; something I truly regret at this point. I don't make sense to myself a lot, and it usually takes other people asking me questions for me to actually understand myself. I'm glad you've taken an interest in this, it's already made me realize a few things as I tried to conjure up answers to your inquiries.

[m1thr0s]

Khaos is a powerful theme...not to be dismissed out of hand...not even on account of popular misconceptions or misrepresentations etc...

Even things you might not expect are rooted in Khaos or its exact equivalent. The I Ching for instance is said to be a direct emanation from Khaos, in this instance via the archetype of Nu Kua...ancient Mother (Water) Dragon...establishing Order from Chaos to repair the world and also introducing humankind into the mix...it's everywhere you go really...powerful parallels...almost always distinguishing a First Khaos from a Second Chaos (more like a deluge) through which the assertion of the Primordial is the only real way to redress the imbalance etc...

I understand the dilemma of discussing things with droids vs free-thinking humans (of which there are almost none in this world anymore). If I didn't have some sort of vested interest in understanding where the hell Khaos Magick is at and might be going I would just leave it alone...in some ways I don't really need it personally to do whatever I need to do...

But it lingers...the whole concept speaks to new and yet untried/unperfected forms of *magick*...future technologies yet to be revealed etc...so I feel like it matters then from that perspective at least.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

so...why do Chaotes give a crap about Will anyway, just out of curiosity? Why is it that they seem to be doting on Thelema Magick hand and foot (as a matter of fact) without actually calling it that? Do Chaotes lack a *magickal will* of their own or something?

Chaos as a principle makes plenty of sense but when the matter turns to magick it just sort of seems to be all about being able to play the game of magick without paying any of the price!

If I had a serious magickal model of reality to introduce into the world, I would be very hesitant to call it Chaos Magick for fear of making intelligent people snicker in advance of the facts! Are Chaotes aware of that? Perhaps there is no such thing as a serious Chaos Magickal theorist anyway so they would simply have no way to know this!

There you go...gambit tossed...but it's all in fun gang...don't get the wrong idea here...

m1thr0s

It's a cover operation for Discordianism. We are aware of it.

I prefer the term Chaotician, anyways, it sounds more important, and in a system based on aesthetics that counts for something.

Besides if people snicker I can always punch them in the face.

Well when you put it that way, you're right. Me and Naomi touched on this on OF when I came up with the new Rules of Khaos Magick. She then invented the "Khaos Magick Church of non-Chaos Magick" Our goal is to, like you're suggesting, more rigidly define the tenets of our magickal practice by making an actual system out of it, where as true "Chaos Magick" is NOT a 'system'. Khaos Magick is based on the "Art of Creation" - and the purpose is to upgrade consciousness, to 'become' and create yourself.I love it. I sprout new churches like fungal spores in my wake.

Hey do any of these Abrahadabraites realize all Chaos Magicians are linked through a telepathic network via Eris? Cuts down on communication lag....

m1thr0s you are right as usual, god I loathe you for making us look slightly uncool...it is a realistic appraisal however. I'm getting a little embarassed about the scum infesting what was once an elite and fashionable branch of magic.

[m1thr0s]

m1thr0s you are right as usual, god I loathe you for making us look slightly uncool...it is a realistic appraisal however. I'm getting a little embarassed about the scum infesting what was once an elite and fashionable branch of magic.lol...well hell...what do I know...just your (not so) average mutational engineer kicking out the jams here...I've had my eye on Khaos stuff for some time though...keep thinking they're gonna finally bust a move as they say. Never quite seems to happen though...maybe tomorrow, who knows...

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

It's real underground. It shouldn't seem like anything.

KOJITSU. (http://www.occultforums.com/showpost.php?p=42975&postcount=1)

[Sheosyrath]

lol...well hell...what do I know...just your (not so) average mutational engineer kicking out the jams here...I've had my eye on Khaos stuff for some time though...keep thinking they're gonna finally bust a move as they say. Never quite seems to happen though...maybe tomorrow, who knows...

m1thr0s

hehe, well I'm trying to get the choreography down. :D