Chaos as a concept

[Kuroyagi]

I want this thread to be about Chaos as a concept. This maybe hasnt to do much with chaos magic but Im still interested in it...maybe we can simply give our own personal concepts of XAOS...here some suggestions:


The I Ching for instance is said to be a direct emanation from Khaos, in this instance via the archetype of Nu Kua...ancient Mother (Water) Dragon...establishing Order from Chaos to repair the world and also introducing humankind into the mix...it's everywhere you go really...powerful parallels...almost always distinguishing a First Khaos from a Second Chaos (more like a deluge) through which the assertion of the Primordial is the only real way to redress the imbalance etc...

in chinese its called hundun (japanese- konton) 混沌

its personified as a mystical faceless figure of archaic origin probably from a shamanistic tradition

it sounds the same as "wonton" (soup), to which it is often compared. (normally both characters of the word have the radical water- in the case of the soup the one for "food, eat"). so chaos is not imagined as an abyss like in greek but rather as a primordial ooze, a soup in that everything is thrown together helter-skelter (hun-dun), but not all is releaved- things and realities surface like ingredients but disappear again...Im not kidding you when I say that in ancient times the "scooping out" of the bowl (cauldron) was considered an act of ritualistic even cosmological significance. of course to go deeper and see the ground you must eat up and drink the soup...

Native American: Coyote and Raven (Both trickster dieties, that range from being the creator diety itself to a minor diety. In all cases they are both very chaotic.)

Greek: Khaos or Khaeos, Translation: Gap / Void
Greek: Aêr, Translation: Air
Latin: Chaos

Khaos was oldest diety in the greek pantheon. Out of her emerged the dieties, Gaia (Earth), Tartaros (Underworld) and Eros (Love, Life).
Khaos was the goddess of air (mist, fog, etc, the thing that filled the gap between heaven and earth) and begat the dieties Nyx (Night), Erebos (Darkness), Aither (Light) and Hemera (Day). She also begat the various Daemones. She was a goddess of fate as well.
The greek form of divination invloving the air called Chaomancy is named as such because of her association with air, which is a symbolic physical representation of a void.
Ovid, the Roman writer gave Chaos its modern meaning; that of an unordered and formless primordial mass, which denotes a place and state of confusion and irregularity.

Some of the major deities in various cultures around the world associated with Chaos are:

Egyptian: The Ogdoad (Nun and Naunet (the primordial water), Huh and Hauhet (infinite space), Kuk and Kauket (darkness), and Amun and Amaunet (representing hidden powers), all together the represent the focres of the chaotic primordial abyss.

Mesopotamian: Tiamat (Represented as a giant dragon. She is the primordial salt waters, which seem uncontrolable conmpared to the fresh waters on land (Apsu, her consort). "The Deep" (Hebrew tehom) at the beginning of Genesis derives from Tiamat.

Canaanite/Hebrew: Lotan/Leviathan (In the former a giant seven headed evil god of the sea, in the later a giant dragon like creature of the sea, both very smiliar to Tiamat). The greek monster Hydra (water, snake), which was slain by Hercules, is very similar to Lotan/Leviathan and Tiamat as well. Another interesting thing to note is that Marduk says Tiamat, Baal slays Lotan, YHWH slays Leviathan, and Hercules slays Hydra, all of which are hero archetypes, symbolizing the triumph of order over chaos, civilization over nature, etc.

Norse: Loki (Originally a fire diety, specificly the negative aspects of fire being unpredictable and hungry for destruction. As a Norse god though, a trickster, shapeshifter, hero and a villian. He has a very unpredictable and generally chaotic nature. Also he belongs to the race of the giants, which are in essence forgein and hostile to the Norse gods, although Loki is in a way adopted by the Aesir (Norse pantheon))

etc so whats your concept etc?

[Sheosyrath]

Well, as you already said:
“In Greek mythology, Chaos or Khaos is the primeval state of existence from which the first gods appeared. In other words, the dark void of space. It is made from a mixture of what the Ancient Greeks considered the four elements: earth, air, water and fire. For example, when a log is burned, the flames were attributed to the fire in it, the smoke the air in it, the water and grease that come from it were supposed to be the water, and the ashes left over were the earth.” - Wikipedia

I see Khaos as sort of that indescribable force of nothingness that gives shape to everything that is something. From nothing, came everything. I guess to me, Khaos would be perhaps synonymous with the universe itself, or the cosmos rather; or the universal consciousness - or God. I don't know - I would rather try not to explain it than do so, but I know it's good to work the ol brain. ;) The pure nothingness of space from which, somehow, for some reason, existence sprang - and is being maintained.

Going a bit further with it, you probably saw me talk about "The Doombringer" in the other thread; well The Doombringer is my personification of Khaos. From Khaos came everything. :p

[deviadah]

Greek mythology has already been adressed but I would like to add that, according to the followers of Orpheus, in the beginning there was a goddess called Nyx, or Night, and she was a bird with black wings. She laid a silver egg in the enormous lap of the Darkness.

From this egg sprang Protogonos, meaning first born, but he is also known, more famously, under his other name Eros, the god of love. When hatched he brought into light all that had previously been hidden in the silver egg.

Above was the void, and below the rest of the world. This name for the void was Chaos, which means that it yawns. Chaos acquired the meaning turmoil or confusion later on.

[Naomi]

Real complex topic. I think Khaos which I equate with Shakti, is understood best against the backdrop of Order, or the Absolute as I prefer to call it. This is one of the foundational precepts of Tantra, and though it is discussed over and over again I never really ever tire of examining it. Khaos is the principle that gives order a run for his money.

So some visuals to save a few thousand words:


Khaos exalted by Order:

http://www.thetengu.com/abrahadabra/durga-mithras.jpg

Same exact thing:

http://www.thetengu.com/abrahadabra/ripley.jpg

Order and Khaos playing fun games together:

http://www.thetengu.com/abrahadabra/avp.jpg

The universe expresses itself through everything, however, localized currents produced through the filter of human minds are easier translated by human minds. Modern imagery is preferential to ancient imagery for the same reasons. (Ancient is beautiful though, don't get me wrong, I'm speaking from a practical active approach)

So if you want to understand the universe from the perspective of Khaos, I'd reccomend the Alien trilogy. If you want to understand the universe from the perspective of Order I'd reccomend the Matrix Trilogy.

Then you can top that off with AVP for an example of how you should act when Original Yin and Yang start things off, and Alien Ressurection for an example of how bad things can get when humanity makes all of the wrong choices.

Species isn't a bad series either.

[Naomi]

The line between fiction and reality is not only blurred, it never existed in the first place. :(

All is mind. :)

http://www.aref-adib.com/archives/alien.jpg

[silentjohn]

The line between fiction and reality is not only blurred, it never existed in the first place. :(

All is mind. :)




Well, yes, all is mind - and if in mind there is a distinction, ie: reality vs. fiction, there is seperation.

Fiction != reality
Reality != fiction



(!= means "does not equal", just in fancy computer code).

[MythMath]

Greek: Khaos or Khaeos, Translation: Gap / Void
Greek: Aêr, Translation: Air
Latin: Chaos
___________________________

Just learned this a coupla days ago:

The word "gas" was apparently proposed by the 17th century Flemish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanders) chemist Jan Baptist van Helmont (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Baptist_van_Helmont), as a phonetic spelling of his Dutch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_language) pronunciation of the Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language) word "chaos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos)", which was used since 1538 after Paracelsus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracelsus) for "air".

[Kuroyagi]

Thank you all for your fruitful contributions! Sheo. no havent read it yet but have saved your pdf- will check it..but I find that doombringer-designation cool, has some "melnibonean" sound to it, and I love that..hehe..also deviadah, thanks for reminding me of Nyx and Eros: "once you fall in love with me every other love will seem shallow!" I dig that interpretation...and Naomi thats the creatvity award to you (for now), that you set the alien/matrix film in relation to Xaos/Order, thats pretty cool, too...all in all Im with the general gist here: that chaos is also about the ability to interpret it and to take it within oneself, let it resonate (cf. Nietzsche quote), cause thats were art starts, all of it...I could say "this is good or bad art, but that is utter BS etc", judging it, but a good artist can be inspired by the most outrageous BS there is and make it shine, make it his own heaven, or even set it as something that others are bound to follow (cf. oikonomics etc.)...endlessly creative...! and thats why enthusiasm is so important, thats what being a child is about..this is how perseverance furthers...etc. (insert several other phrases from mystical teachings around the world)!

mythmath: neat- I was also think of the concepts of "qi/ki" when reading that...the Chinese characters have the connotation of: air or gas/steam after all...

[Frater CaO]

We or All is/are born from Chaos and shall return to Chaos once again.
I believe that Chaos is the essence from which the Universe or Cosmos was created by the demiurge against our Will.

To sum up.
Here you have some information about Chaos which I mostly agree with, to make things a little more simple then to have to write a long post about it:

http://www.templeoftheblacklight.net/library/chaosophy/chaosophy.html

"When there were neither the creation, nor the sun, the moon, the planets, and the earth, when the darkness was enveloped in darkness, then the Mother, the Formless One, Maha Kali, the Great Power, was one with the Maha Kala, the Absolute."