Occult Techniques for getting rid of the need for sleep?

[Kuroyagi]

Wouldnt it be practical if we didnt require sleep anymore? We would have much more time for ourselves or for studying or do whatever we wanted.

The first thing one hears when saying things like this, is: we need sleep to balance us out and resolve unfinished thoughts etc. in dream. But this is not that big a problem to a magical and poetic person: I can and do run often on "automatic" doing my daily duties or talking to people while Im not there at all. My consciousness is completely elsewhere; I can fall in more or less deeper trance without the help of drugs, can pathwork and build imaginative and astral universes that arent finished or resolved at all- that allow utterly unexpected and crazy things to happen, too. So this would be my least concern, the problem is to keep the body energized and functioning- getting rid of the negative effects of the lack of sleep/it didnt have any negative effects.

I have experienced this "no need of sleep" rarely after "ritual", or at very engergetic times, and rarely also when I had new thoughts and was enthusiastic (but then often I got to feel the downsides of sleep deprivation on the next day etc.): but what was so unbelievable in those rare instances was that I didnt loose concentration even though I didnt sleep.

Also I could never sleep well 1,2 days before the full moon. Until I just reverted my thought process: Its not that I couldnt sleep, I told myself, but rather that I didnt need to. And thereby I have much more time 1 day per month than others to positively do whatever I like...if we needed no sleep our whole culture would drastically change, but I dont think that its "unnatural" etc at all...what is "natural" anyway?

Has anybody experimented in this direction already- you yourself or anybody you know of?- cause this could be, if done successfully, quite enhancing!

[deviadah]

I can't recall who it was, Balinas I think, who meditated at noon, dawn and dusk for an hour each time. This resulted in that he only needed to sleep a couple of hours a day. I do not think sleep is necessary, and I have experimented a lot with Power Sleeping.

Also the seratonin/melatonin chemicals in the brain can be influenced mentally - all one needs to do is concentrate.

Although there are benefits to sleeping if one can do what, supposedly St Germain did, which was stop the body-clock while sleeping resulting in a declining ageing process.

:cool:

[Naomi]

I think sleep is important to help us reconnect and resync to the higher realms, and during times of particularily heavy downloads from above the great void I have noticed I do not need sleep - or perhaps it is that my new directives require that I fulfill them completely according to the will of heaven before I need to reconnect again.

A hard line to the source above void would be crucial in eliminating the need for sleep or even reverie but where would be the fun in that? I love wandering around in dreamland there's always a fun surprise...

[deviadah]

For most people sleep is the only way they can experience imagination and their unconscious. But for another group, a minority in society, they can connect with their imagination and their unconscious when awake. I think this is an important point. Although it does not mean this latter group does not need sleep, but perhaps they need it less - or for other reasons.

[Kuroyagi]

Yes dev. thats what I think too and even have experienced: when you are able to mingle the dream and awaken world to an extent and to satisfy requirements covered by the sleep process it can- or should- be partly able to compensate for the lack of sleep without side effects...

And sure Naomi, Im completely fond of dreams and sleep too- but my deep involvement with oneiric magic/processes was even a sort of prerequisitive for thinking about this topic at all...wouldnt it be cool to be able to do that (go w/o sleep)? One could still sleep too like a hobby etc or a game- but also be awake for months if one wished.

Since St. Germain was mentioned too: Somehow I also think that this has a connection to longevity maybe even immortality, and one that may have been a bit neglected, it could be though that arachic shamans knew more bout this...and its something I'd look further into myself if noone else has yet...havent even read anything "theoretical" about sleep yet...

[deviadah]

I've written a great deal on St Germain and there is a connection with sleep and immortality, as it is between digetstion/nutrition and immortality.

I'll have planned to post something about this when I feel ready...

[Naomi]

Absolutely that's what some of us are trying to accomplish, for instance, with the heavy Mutational Alchemy work, right? Trigrammaton

[Kuroyagi]

yeah dev. post it when youre ready, I always liked the comte (maybe cause I AM M. le Comte myself, who knows?), masons, nobles, dames...he played them ALL...

[MythMath]

I'm all for getting rid of the need for sleep,
but do I have to give up my afternoon nap..? :no:

[Naomi]

Yeah cat naps are fun....you know what I like...napping with other beings, like my cats or something/smtg

[m1thr0s]

stars are said to *rest*, if that tells us anything...they do not sleep. It may tell us that periods of rest are always an integral part of life. Assuming it was possible to arrive at a *quality rest*, I can't see where sleep itself is required. Meditation could assume the lucid dreaming states and nothing would be lost but the lost time (and consciousness) itself...

I'm not sure if anybody has ever actually done this though. We're dealing with some pretty heavy pollution issues in this world that may require system shut-downs to process...

m1thr0s

[Kuroyagi]

Stars are another topic that Im interested in- that you mentioned them made me think more positively even still (dunno why exactly,but what you wrote has this effect on me): in the direction of: Maybe there are even resting techniques that are much more efficient than our "nature given" sleep...?

[Naomi]

Some animals don't even have eyelids...

[deviadah]

I'm not sure if anybody has ever actually done this though.
True or not I have heard Apollonius of Tyana has done it...

[Kuroyagi]

:laugh: Its practically irrelevant who has done "it" if we dont know "how" they did it...thanks for the Germain links, dev.

[Naomi]

Well I've done it and I know how. I'm too busy downloading to go without sleep though...

[Kuroyagi]

So "downloading" isnt possible while being awake? If you want to teach us the techniques youre always highly welcome of course...

edit: sorry Naomi Saturn rebound- I'll take it off of you...moons in good constellation too, so its no prob.!

[Naomi]

Well there's the headache so sleep helps to alleviate that during really long 4-5 hour stints of massive mindfucking sessions

Cool give me some good music while you're in there K K?

hee hee

Yeah there's a key to it - I was hoping to discuss this in person.

[Kuroyagi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKkA5hbfoNY

As you like: I only used "us" as a pluralis majestatis anyway ;)...( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralis_majestatis )

[deviadah]

:laugh: Its practically irrelevant who has done "it" if we dont know "how" they did it...thanks for the Germain links, dev.
Oh we know... meditate at dusk + dawn + noon (welcome, farewell and at its most powerful - the sun that is).

[Naomi]

I actually video blogged about this topic today. but then it came out sideways, so I deleted it

this is like the second video of me ever - I can't...I can't figure out how to turn it right side up :|

I tried to do it in Photoshop but it doesn't work - K do you have any videos of you?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eD3x3uzbfGQ

[Naomi]

Haha, thanks you're the first person to say that.

I slept a long time today and really I got alot out of it it was after a thunderstorm...well, me in the thunderstorm, and then I went inside and slept on the couch while another one started

I really like sleeping during rain idk why

There's more to sleep than meets the eye...like your idea of humans needing "night"

I think it is probably we are more awake during sleep than any other time.

[deviadah]

Might want to look into this: Sleep and Sleeplessness (http://www.4literature.net/Aristotle/Sleep_and_Sleeplessness/) by Aristotle

[Naomi]

I hate Aristotle, but thanks.

[Kuroyagi]

dev: heey- taxe mücke! for that, if you keep bombarding me with links I'll have to fire up ye ol laser printa- at the institute....

But (after that vid) I nearly want to be romantic with Naomi ;)....sleepin while it rains outside and all that...Im human too, you know? Or at least some part of me is. But in this thread as in the forum we also have to focus on going beyond that, beyond human, and believe me I know how sad and lonely that can be...

No, honestly I dont take that lightly at all...Naomi, when you say that theres a lot going on with sleep, I agree. I also love to sleep or "rest" when its raining, maybe its the rhythmn of it (the rain)- the sound of the universe that draws us into it, its the vibration of the rain that is in harmony with certain very old things you know? It patters not THAT regularly- not as we think it does -or not as we would think, or as scientists could meassure it- its drawing us in and calling out to us somehow...I mean I dont care if this topic is about getting rid of sleep either but even without sleep the sound of rain is something special to me, as is the snow that falls steadily in front of my window...but still, I am very interested in your methods for not needing sleep, too- if you want to share etc...as I said: if this thing changes our whole culture then also our whole perspective on life and the universe may change...

Vids are cool, too btw! We should make some- or: post more! No prob with me at least...

[silentjohn]

uhmm

very esoteric ritual to get rid of need for sleep

is to sleep




yes feed your cats youtube, Naomi.

[Naomi]

i got food for them recently.

also how to get to sleep is to eat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTXbMCOywVY

[Picatrix]

Necessity is the mother of invention - those poor POWs in WW2 that were forced into sleep deprivation leading to death couldn't manage to do without their sleep l'm afraid.

[deviadah]

Necessity is the mother of invention - those poor POWs in WW2 that were forced into sleep deprivation leading to death couldn't manage to do without their sleep l'm afraid.
Yes, but I am sure they did not meditate or spend much time in the sun - more so under a lamp... or am I wrong here?

[Picatrix]

I can't understand why we need sleep, so l can't say for certain that we can live without it. I await your breakthrough!

I know that meditation can be relaxing. Sometimes, when you are sleep deprived, it helps just to lie down in bed, without falling asleep.

But surely, the deeper you go into meditation, the more sleepy you become?

Anyway, whenever l've spent sleepless nights, one thing l've noticed is that there's nothing like the morning Sun to mess up your system, you suddenly feel very sleep, but at the same time, it's difficult to jump the barrier into the land of Nod. I'm rambling - what exactly are you proposing, re: Sunlight and meditation?

I know of the melatonin biosynthetic pathway, and l know a bit about deep sleep. Are you suggesting a meditation - sunlight therapy cycle for to replace sleep and boost melatonin metabolism respectively?

[deviadah]

Anyway, whenever l've spent sleepless nights, one thing l've noticed is that there's nothing like the morning Sun to mess up your system, you suddenly feel very sleep, but at the same time, it's difficult to jump the barrier into the land of Nod.
I am in this situation right now. I haven't slept all night and the sun has come up now and I do feel a heavy blanket slide over my brain. So what I do is I now journey out on my balcony and I will let the sun sort me out...

...ok back. Feel much better, although for maximum effect I should have caught it at its very birth and sat for an hour or so meditating.

:sunny::stars::sunny:

I am no expert, just fooling around and if something works I continue!

[m1thr0s]

this is all pretty impossible to resolve without more actual expertise on tap. one of the more serious objections to sleep is the amount of time lost through the process. another (perhaps lesser) criticism is the apparent separation in consciousness itself. We don't exactly know everything sleep is doing for us but it all seems to mainly be about regeneration. We also know that the body heals itself much more efficiently in sleep modes than awake modes, yet we can't really compare this very well with super-awake modes that virtually no one really seems to have much access to on a regular basis...rumors are always fun but they don't really tell us shit...St. Germain and all of that...cool but useless.

I think all we can do is guess...and even that somewhat ignorantly I fear. I'm guessing that we ultimately don't really need sleep so much as we need the regeneration it provides, both physical and psychological. I have a very difficult time visualizing this as possible so long as we are locked into earth itself though. The pollution levels alone would seem to necessitate pseudo-coma states as the only viable defensive mechanism available.

But we don't yet know what can be accomplished by raising energy to the point that this itself might eliminate the physical urgency at stake. Such beings, however, would no longer be truly human by any standards we recognize as such.

m1thr0s

[Picatrix]

I suppose we should equally ask: can we exist in a permanent state of sleep? Maybe with an intravenous drip a person can remain in a coma indefinitely, but there's always a time when someone will physically die anyway, isn't there?

And what about people who gradually slow their breath down until they breathe every few hours? Assuming such rumours are true, are they in a state of being permanently awake or asleep?

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Tolkien's elves did not sleep. Instead they would sit silently and enter a lucid replay of past happy moments in their lives.

[MythMath]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6f/Brainstorm.jpg/392px-Brainstorm.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainstorm_%281983_film%29

[Kuroyagi]

Of course today I dont sleep (now its 4:52 a.m.)- the moon was very bright, its getting lighter outside already, maybe its already one day past fullmoon by the looks of it (?)...ah yeah the Elves! Born in perpetual star light...

[Naomi]

Tolkien's elves did not sleep. Instead they would sit silently and enter a lucid replay of past happy moments in their lives.

Oh right, the reverie. Tolkien knew a little about elves...there's a certain amount of viciousness lacking in The Lord of the Rings though, his "wood" elves of Mirkwood were better, imho

I do this alot lately, it seems to work pretty good, but there are new happy experiences arising from this state of mind and it looks like sleep, perhaps it is sleep..maybe I'm just being very lucid during it. Maybe what we're looking for is closer to lucid dreaming.

Bardon believed that during the highest states of extra planar travel, if one's physical body was touched you would die instantly. Sort of gives a new practicality to coffins, suddenly...

[Kuroyagi]

Maybe what we're looking for is closer to lucid dreaming.
Approach it from the other side, you mean? Good thought! There is a state that is already "boringly" lucid cause its very slow and nearly real time in dream like an audio/vid conference. Since I know that it would interest you I once had one of those about Oaz. in which we actually talked in English like a normal conversation though the environment was mixed/half realistic...this was again a bit different to being only half asleep which to me doesnt qualify as dreaming but is also a good state for getting into many a "realm", this state is not very comfy, though. In least state you heavily integrate your surroundings and your conscious everyday thoughts into a more dreamy format...its like very heavy pondering, in some instances uselessly heavy...

p.s. some of the Elves in the Silmarillion were better, like Eol or Thingol etc...

[Naomi]

I think I've been having weird dreams because of this perspective change. Or it could be other...large things. Anyways this is all really cool.

OH yes, Eol....I was going to say, the elf that stands at the shores to speak with the god of the ocean reminded me of you. It's important to me to remember what archetypes are yours, I'm not sure why. Could have something to do with you being my dad. Well. That's a little weird. But whatever, I am in a higher consciousness state at the moment and I won't lower it just to fit in.

Anyways, I made a video about my dream I've slept 3 hours and feel wide awake. Very energized.

Wai Kahan Transmit (silentjohn) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzzH6kWkEcs)

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Tolkien knew a little about elves..
I'd say Tolkien knew everything about the Alfar. Most non-Scandinavian stuff about Elves was created by him.

[triangleofart]

I'm amazed no one has mentioned polyphasic sleep (http://www.occultcorpus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1603). I haven't tried it, but Bucky Fuller gives it his vote of confidence.

[MythMath]

Micronapping:

In his book Power Sleep, Dr. James B. Maas notes that 20th century's
most famous surrealist artist, Salvador Dali, napped in his armchair
(actually an ornate throne :p), holding a spoon over a metal pan on the floor below.

Upon reaching REM Sleep, Dali would lose muscle tonus, the spoon would fall
from his grip, bang the metal pan and he would awaken refreshed.

Thomas Edison is reported to have used a similar napping technique, known as the one-second nap.
His method would take him from daydreaming to 1-second 'twilight dreaming" and then he'd awaken
with new solutions and a state of mind to do something with them.

source: http://www.timeoutnaps.com/famous-nappers.html

[deviadah]

That is both funny and interesting (speaking of Dali). I have in the past days been sleeping too much. A few years back it was argued that a person can't store sleep, but it has been proved that you can i.e. sleep for 15 hours and then stay awake for a day and a half + the other way around. I know, do it all the time!

:cool:

[Kuroyagi]

Thanks all for the input- yeah Dali a great magician wasnt he- and a dandy too, meaning that he inscenated/put on stage his life as much as his art- shouldnt be done, but well, he had made a fortune by it...not to understand me wrong I compeletely love such persons but one has to be critical too, else one ends up as corrupt as some dogmatic group you know...always keeping ones freedom and integrity is important.

Well, as I said I have neglected this line of research- have browsed the things about micro nappin though- also the post on the occult corpus...yes I WILL have to concern myself more with that to give a fair judgement but from a preliminary scan Im not impressed at all- seems like some psycho hogwash yet again- well yeah and I am frustrated with such things. Still it has to be checked out too...thank god that I found the abra system at least- now THAT was certainly no waste of time. hehe-kudos to m1thr0s.