How you started

[Coyote426]

This might not interest others but it always intrigues me, how did you first discover the runes? Was it a chance reading of a book? A family member? An extension of other studies?

My first introduction was as a kid, my dad bought Ralph Blum's book with the free set of stones back in '84 or '85. I never really took to it because something about the way he dealt with them didn't seem right. Looking back he treated them like tarot cards and didn't use any creativity or intuition, just read from the book.

Years later I started hanging around with some neo-Pagans and Viking reenactors who were into runes, mainly Edred Thorsson's works, this got me reading and I guess dabbling.

After another long break now I'm just trying to deepen some knowledge and develop a relationship with them.

[Naomi]

I read J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion about seven times. I think I had the Odin rune on my last monitor, it was compulsive. I don't know anything about them though, I just liked Odin from going to see Wagner's RIng of the Dwarves when I was 8.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

The first time I came across the runes was when I read the Hobbit, sometime around 1981. The first time I used runes was when I was given a set in 1990.

[Talkingfox]

I was enamored of Nordic stories from the time I was 4 or so. We had a wonderfully illustrated copy of "East of the Sun and West of the Moon" that I read over and over.

This led to the creation/destruction cycles as I got a bit older...6 or so?
one of the illustrations in a very old anthology of myth (that had originally belonged to my grandmother as a child) had runic inscriptions within the architecture. I had to know what it meant.

One thing led to another and by 1975 or so I began rune study in earnest, beyond the literal.

[Naomi]

Oh I remember that one. It's a good story, but I forget what it was about now. Fitcher's Bird (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:1FB1pf1KCRQJ:pinkmonkey.com/dl/library1/story038.pdf+fitchers+bird&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us) is probably the only one that still sticks out in my mind, and the giant dog story from Hans Christian Anderson. I've probably read every published fairytale known to man. Alot of truths are hidden in fairytales. For instance, Cinderella is actually a tale from Egypt complete with the artifacts (including a solid black pyramid) to prove that it actually happened.

[Kuroyagi]

I "borrowed" a book by one Edred Thorsson from my lil brother...havent read it though...what do you guys think of this author is it any good?

[Talkingfox]

I "borrowed" a book by one Edred Thorsson from my lil brother...havent read it though...what do you guys think of this author is it any good?


He has moments of sheer brilliance....and inverse moment of equal idiocy.

Amazing linguist, rotten theologian, prone to injecting his studies with personal agendas which vary from ok in my book (Lhp stuff) to absolutely abhorrent (smells of racism)

The guy managed to get himself chucked out of an order that he started. :eek:

Thorsson is best studied with a great deal of personal discernment IMO.

OH btw, Flowers is the same guy.

[Ratatosk]

For some reason I couldn't explain I was compelled to pick up a copy of Blum's book (ick, ack, *ptooey*) that came with some clay runes in the games shop where I bought my RPG miniatures which I was painting and reselling for extra cash. I felt an instant affinity for the runes, but wasn't so sure about the book. I read about half of it, decided that his explanations were incredibly shallow and lacking, and that he was full of crap. So, I took the main attributes he gave each rune, wrote them down, and then each day for 24 days I carried one of the runes with me, and thought about his explanation of the meaning, and spent any loose brain cycle moments on delving deeper into it in a free-flow, intuitive way. (I should mention, that since I was working as a laborer digging ditches at this time I had lots of loose brain cycles.)

After this I started doing castings, one a week, and I would think about each rune in the casting, and how it played off the others, and how it all worked together as a system.

This was all in 1984, shortly before I joined the Army, and before I had even heard that there were these people who call themselves Pagans and Witches and Heathens, and I thought "Oh, they have a name for it!" That was also the time that I started to actually look for and dig into literature with some meat regarding runes, Norse culture, ancient European history and the occult.

[Kuroyagi]

Thanks for your opinion, fox, so hes good on the subject/topic of runes but has some queer ideological ideas constructed around it?...(racism! :laugh:, I heard that the blond hair mutation is about to disappear anyway in some few hundred years, allegedly it was a mutation in reaction to the ice ages, and from now on its not required anymore..)

And Ratatosk you say: no Blum (if youre over 12), well crafted avatar btw!

Can I also ask your opinions on Jan Fries' Helrunar- good /bad? (read his Visual Magic book several years ago and it was good though maybe not for purists I could imagine, going more in a "chaotic" direction I believe...)

[Naomi]

Ah Kuroyagi but your blonde hair is so pretty. System is aesthetics based! I think we will continue to see it for some time. But whew japanese girls are sexy yeah? and they love blondes! lol!

[Kuroyagi]

Not necessarily my dear Naomi, the fact that the system is aesthetics based doesnt mean that one nice thing couldnt be substituted by another nice thing, or even some better...and as far as nature goes necessity and practicality are both aesthetic components, and even so in art in the narrower sense: in an exceptional work of art everything seems to be of utmost necessity, every part of it seems to belong just where it is and couldnt be imagined anywhere else without loosing beauty.

On another note: in a sense technique and science (e.g. hair coloring shampoos etc.) have substituted evoultion, we have entered the age of enforced auto (self) evolution as you know!

And I know: you are desperate for more photos of me but I have to say: be patient and dont despair! in due time- maybe even end of summer fall- your longings could be fulfilled at last! I know its difficult but let us hang in there and show some strenght! yrs, gilderoy lockhardt (sp?)

[Talkingfox]

Can I also ask your opinions on Jan Fries' Helrunar- good /bad? (read his Visual Magic book several years ago and it was good though maybe not for purists I could imagine, going more in a "chaotic" direction I believe...)


I personally find Fries a bit New-Agey.

Edit: A need to clarify further. His historical stuff is pretty shaky and not well documented. I totally agree with his sociological/ historic stuff early in the book, but found the actual runic stuff a bit lacking.
I'm no purist by a longshot, but I think if one is going to use traditional texts as a basis for the work (which he does at least a bit) that a deeper understanding of the culture/language that spawned the system is in order. I found some of his entomological connections tenuous at best and ill supported. LOVE the pictures though!
I did like his stuff on Seid . Seidways is a fun book, especially for those who dig freeform Chaos stuff.

[Naomi]

hee hee hee

[Ratatosk]

Thanks for your opinion, fox, so hes good on the subject/topic of runes but has some queer ideological ideas constructed around it?...(racism! :laugh:, I heard that the blond hair mutation is about to disappear anyway in some few hundred years, allegedly it was a mutation in reaction to the ice ages, and from now on its not required anymore..)

And Ratatosk you say: no Blum (if youre over 12), well crafted avatar btw!

Can I also ask your opinions on Jan Fries' Helrunar- good /bad? (read his Visual Magic book several years ago and it was good though maybe not for purists I could imagine, going more in a "chaotic" direction I believe...)

I can't really say anything one way or the other about Jan Fries - I haven't read any of his work. I think the true test is this:
Does the work stand up to the standards of being well researched, fully documented and well written?
Are the conclusions of the work supported by the archaeological, historical and cultural evidence?
Does the work make sense in light of the time and culture which it represents?
Does the work have any relevance to the here and now? (Assuming you're not talking about a history or archeology book.)
Is the author clear on where he/she is biased, or where the text represents opinion rather than plain fact?Based on these criteria, Blum's work falls down on number 1 (and continues to tumble right through the list), and much of Flowers' work (at least the stuff written under the pen name Edred Thorsson) fails on numbers 2, 3 and especially 5. The scholarly books and papers written by Flowers, however, pass on all but number 4 - but they are historical in nature and therefore get a pass.

These are not the only criteria with which to judge an occult work. If they were we would run out of reading material rather quickly. (In fact, I would argue that even Crowley fails on some of these, often on purpose!) I do feel, however that this is a good starting point.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Does the work stand up to the standards of being well researched, fully documented and well written?
Are the conclusions of the work supported by the archaeological, historical and cultural evidence?
Does the work make sense in light of the time and culture which it represents?
Does the work have any relevance to the here and now? (Assuming you're not talking about a history or archeology book.)
Is the author clear on where he/she is biased, or where the text represents opinion rather than plain fact?

Great list. 99.9% of New Age books on the Celtic Tradition are utter failures on all of these counts.

[Talkingfox]

Great list. 99.9% of New Age books on the Celtic Tradition are utter failures on all of these counts.

As are 99% of Nordic books out there.

My approach to runic and most of the nordic system is to go straight to the academics, usually several translations of original texts, find what archaeological stuff that I can, the myth structure and then personal practical application with much taking of notes.

Yeahyeah...I'm a geek.

[Kuroyagi]

I can't really say anything one way or the other about Jan Fries - I haven't read any of his work. I think the true test is this:

Does the work stand up to the standards of being well researched, fully documented and well written?
Are the conclusions of the work supported by the archaeological, historical and cultural evidence?
Does the work make sense in light of the time and culture which it represents?
Does the work have any relevance to the here and now? (Assuming you're not talking about a history or archeology book.)
Is the author clear on where he/she is biased, or where the text represents opinion rather than plain fact?Based on these criteria, Blum's work falls down on number 1 (and continues to tumble right through the list), and much of Flowers' work (at least the stuff written under the pen name Edred Thorsson) fails on numbers 2, 3 and especially 5. The scholarly books and papers written by Flowers, however, pass on all but number 4 - but they are historical in nature and therefore get a pass.

These are not the only criteria with which to judge an occult work. If they were we would run out of reading material rather quickly. (In fact, I would argue that even Crowley fails on some of these, often on purpose!) I do feel, however that this is a good starting point.Thanks viewed against that list your opinions of those authors are well illustrated. Normally when doing occult work, I start by buying some well researched scientific books/check out uni/academic world and then I have a good basis for being more lenient on point five: I even get most inspired by very poetic interpretations, then...combined with my own conlcusions. Checking out "consenus reality" and then some occult boards (doesnt apply to this here! ;)) for the most erroneous misconceptions...one can very much enjoy the mixing of "facts", experience and fantasy as a consequence, but still enjoy discussion with more "down to earth ppl", and eventually go on to create ones own myths! But education and knowledge is paramount, knowing the positions of the prophets to the left and right and walk as the child of Man between them, as its said.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Yeahyeah...I'm a geek.
lol...I think us occultists are the original geeks :yes: