Emotional Health/Coping Mechanisms

[iAL]

Hi
I'm not sure if this is the best place to poste because it deals with emotional health. People who cut themselves as a coping mechanism, what do you suggest for them to do to cope with it differently other then cutting? Any advice is good wether occultic or just normal or how you deal with it.


Thanks,
iAL

[Naomi]

Let them cut themselves...it's not going to harm them. There's worse things in the world.

[fr.novumorganum]

hi iAL, and thank you for asking. This is a fine place for this thread, and I hope you find a good discussion here.

I think the first thing I would want to think about are the prompts for the cutting: coping/ocd, attention, or self-destruction. Advice depends on that I think.

CB (http://www.crazyboards.org/forums/index.php?showforum=30) --- i've always found the discussion here to be very helpful and informed.

[iAL]

Yeah thats true Naomi. Why do people make a big deal of it though and require you to go to see counslers and psychologists? What does cutting oneself say about a person as a whole?

[iAL]

Hi Fr.Novumorganum

I'm talking about it as a coping mechanism.
Thankyou for the link Fr. Novumorganum , Im going to read it, thanks.

[Kuroyagi]

I think such questions are difficult to answer without knowing the details (e.g. if its you or someone else, your child etc...)

But my very general answer would be: 1) make the person learn any martial art (boxing, karate etc..) cause by doing that he'll not only work out and get some bodily drug hormones but also get to know that pain isnt bad and get to know his own tolerance levels, and also: hed be more confident and strong. 2) is love: maybe the person doesnt feel loved by anyone...maybe you could provide him with love and justice (justice in this context means that you could be a person that would stand up for him..), or at a higher level if hes already loved he could be afraid of loosing the attention of the one who loves him/respectively of the one who he thinks loves him...we are all afarid of that...

Yet on another take somehow I agree with Naomi: if its only cuts and if hes even doing magical trainning it could be quite normal, maybe hes just taken Crowley for his word there or maybe he thinks its really cool (like tatoos)...thats why its so difficult to give advice without knowing the exact situation...there are just too many possibilities...

[Kuroyagi]

Yeah thats true Naomi. Why do people make a big deal of it though and require you to go to see counslers and psychologists? What does cutting oneself say about a person as a whole?
Ah I see- so its you yourself. So let me tell you: it doesnt say anything about a person as a whole nothing. But I can tell you what the people will think (like parents, psychologists) who are confronted with it: they'll think that you have some sort of problem that you want to externalize, by cutting yourself you want to draw attention to you, you feel neglected and lonely and see no sense in life and direction...but instead that the stupid parents would give up their jobs to spend all the time with you they send you to some psychologist whom you even dont know! COLD is the modern world.

[iAL]

Hi Kuroyagi, thanks for the advice I appreciate it.
I know many of you know this feeling, growing up with diffrent ideas but never able to express who you are or your beliefs. I don't have anyone to talk to about myself on a more deeper level and so everything I feel stays locked up inside, all these raw emotions that don't leave unless I substitute it with someting else. And I'm also gay, but havn't told anyone because I know how they would take it.
So during these times, how did you guys cope?

[m1thr0s]

So during these times, how did you guys cope?trial & error...but look...if you're not on your side, who the f*ck is? the truth is, there's a whole world full of people on your side but if you're not on your side...you'll never even see those people cuz you won't be looking. you'll just be looking into cracks in gutters and crap like that.

so somewhere in there you have to figure out if you are going to get behind you or what. I think that's a major turning point for anybody who feels blasted out of the mainstream in whatever way for whatever reason.

if you only have one damn friend in this world...it had better be you. Once you get past that you'll be able to see there's others out there as well...it's not necessarily an easy thing...it may not be able to go all the way to "loving yourself" and all that floofy bullshit. but you do have to decide if you're worth fighting for...even if it is only on the basis of things you need to get done (your work as an artist etc)...whatever works.

m1thr0s

[iAL]

Thanks m1thr0s, I see what you mean and I appreciate it. Made me feel a spark of self-confidance reading it.

[deviadah]

Just read The Outsider by Colin Wilson (which is a study of alienation, the modern mind and creativity). I think you could enjoy it. The world is filled with Insiders (normal folks) as it is with Outsiders (weird folks like you and I), and one of the points of this book is that without the Outsiders the Insiders wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

I have always enjoyed being twice-born (born then re-born and awakened to the horrors of normality). When you are different to the norm you are alone, but you are also strong. Sadly most people get depressed and slit their wrists, I did too - but then again I was too young to fully grasp the state I was in. Now, many years later I have turned the demons into my slaves. They empower me.

For example if you are gay, but in the closet so to speak, you have two options: one is to remain in the closet and treat your homosexuality as a secret power, or come out of the closet and bury people with your relaxed new way of life. Don't flaunt, just be!

Then there is a third option, one I am myself in the process of and that is to be thrice-born. In this state it does not matter what sex attracts you, or if you are Inside or Outside.

I don't know if this makes sense to you, but it is the way I see it: take it or leave it.

I would also like to add that any person who has never contemplated taking his/her life has never truly lived because it is at the precipice of death that life blossoms - and the scars that remain isn't scars of shame, but of a reminder why life should be lived.

There will be plenty of time to die later... although when one does die I recommend suicide; can there be a greater exhibition of Will?

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I would also like to add that any person who has never contemplated taking his/her life has never truly lived because it is at the precipice of death that life blossoms

Frankly that's rubbish. A person in this context contemplates suicide -or cuts himself - because he takes himself and his own ego way too seriously. It's a form of inverted egoism, symptomatic of an inbalance in that person's relationship with his surrounding environment.

What should people who cut themselves do? Learn to laugh at themselves.

[deviadah]

Perhaps I was too general. If some girl breaks up with you and you feel a bit down and want to kill yourself, well that is not really what I am talking about.

If you have ever stared deeply into the infinite void of existence and seen the horror, as in Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness, then you know what I mean.

When you look down at your own skin and see not your skin, but the skin of something you really don't know what it is. When the whole universe, past and future, wraps itself around you - and you feel pretty small - then death seems to be a door worthy to open.

In fact it is not Ego, it is in fact lack of Ego - lack of self. It is a state of non-existence!

[Ci Celli Ddu]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=darkorchid]When you look down at your own skin and see not your skin, but the skin of something you really don't know what it is. When the whole universe, past and future, wraps itself around you - and you feel pretty small - then death seems to be a door worthy to open.

In fact it is not Ego, it is in fact lack of Ego - lack of self. It is a state of non-existence!

No, it is ego. The non-existant does not choose to kill itself, as it doesn't exist in the first place. That death should "become a worthy door to open" just because somebody has realised how small they are is a perfect example of what I was refereing to with "inverted egoism".

[deviadah]

I disagree, since it is has nothing to do with being small or inverted egoism, more about joining the infinite... still it matter not. I guess you have to be there to understand what kind of emotions I am talking about. I have had them myself, several people around me have committed suicide, and several have failed. There are some morons, and some smart ones - in the end it is still an act of ultimate will.

I did not choose to be born, but I choose when to die - and that is the whole of my law!

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Oh I have stared into the void, so my statements are not based on pure guesswork. Contemplating suicide does not make one more aware of life than those who have not done so.

[Kuroyagi]

It depends on what conclusions one draws from thinking about ones own death, and how much self awareness one has. If one has enough insight to see that oneself (like in the case of many teenagers) only wanted to "kill oneself" to draw attention to ones own being/suffering then said self irony, taking oneself not so seriously, could help. The prob is that one cant talk reasonably like this with ppl who are depressed, or emotionally disturbed, and they wont think reasonably either. I also had moments in which Id killed myself if given the chance, if all I had to do was only a button to press then Id have done it, and I believe that nearly everyone had such moments already (another reason to be against fire arms world wide). But there also can be other practical insights from really thinking about it more cooly, like in the Stoic method or as some consolation: like having less fear and also seeing that we all must die eventually can be placating when someone gets on your nerves...same effect as a meditation upon the vastness of the universe etc...

[deviadah]

I agree with you K.

Oh I have stared into the void, so my statements are not based on pure guesswork. Contemplating suicide does not make one more aware of life than those who have not done so.
And also there is a difference between contemplating suicide and sitting with a loaded gun at your temple! Unless you go to war, or live in a really bad neighbourhood, you are not likely to find yourself in such a situation.

There is a beauty with death and a great power in deep angst. There is also a big difference with depression and angst... the former is something many people have had in large and small doses, but true angst - deep soul drilling angst - is something all together different... and as I said, quite exhilirating!

If you, indeed has stared into the void, as I have - then life must have for you, as it did for me, felt somewhat petty? If not, I think we are talking about different experiences - and voids.

[m1thr0s]

I think that dwelling on death can be very productive if you are thorough enough to weigh everything involved...and one should consider such things as "ego-death" and the possibility of reincarnation and many other factors. One should consider whether so-called death is really death at all or just another side of consciousness. What does one expect to gain? What are your underlying assumptions and could some of these be incorrect? The whole thing is a very demanding philosophical inquiry if pursued vigorously...and if it's not pursued vigorously then it just amounts to incomplete and sloppy thinking...

so I'm not at all down on dwelling upon death but I think you have to be prepared to go all the way with it if you are going to arrive at any conclusions worth much of anything...

m1thr0s

[Ci Celli Ddu]

If you, indeed has stared into the void, as I have - then life must have for you, as it did for me, felt somewhat petty?

No. I drew my own conclusions. One man's void is another man's plenitude. Do not make the mistake of considering your own personal reality to be an universal one. That, in a nutshell, is my point.

[deviadah]

Yes... and humour is also the best way to look at death/life. Bill Hicks said it best:

It's just a ride (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvVdjMxSZxg)

To dwell on death is to take the edge of death away. To fear death is silly, because if you need to fear something it is life... which is a fucking pain in the ass sometime.

Physical death, as well as spiritual, is probably the smartest and healthiest thing we humans can do. If only we could get over the grief bit, which is so stupid. I understand why it happens, but I wish we could move along and forget about all this crap with tombstones, funerals and such things. They are all products of fear.

Why fear the inevitable?

[Naomi]

I never got to finish this conversation so I'll just do it anyways, Deviadah shouldn't be the only thread necromancer anyways.

I tried to kill myself once, and it wasn't because of my ego, I'll fucking assure you that - it was because this world is way too fucking much for a person like me - it just is.

The only thing that really helped at all was magick. I would make up my own rituals and stuff, delving into really dark awful imagery, it certainly helped. Parents don't help, they just make matters worse with their morals and other assorted garbage from their own childhoods they havn't bothered filtering.

So if you have to die, then fucking go ahead, i can't really be bothered to say it's going to be for the worse. This world sucks man....

But there's a lot of joy to tap into as well, if you can find it. I hope it's not too late for that....

And reasonably, slitting your wrists is possibly a horrible way to go....

I hope no one fails to realize this world is fucked up because the people that do feel like they want to kill themselves are usually really emotional and can't simply tune it out like other people can. It's a whole different type of mentality. So understanding that is part of relieving your own suffering, kids...we'll leave you to your misery if you can't nurture us....

[Darkwater]

EAT RIGHT FOR YOUR BLOODTYPE.

depending upon your bloodtype,some foods act as *medecine* for your blood,perfecting it,cleaning it like sticky tape stroked down an oosy wool jumper.

Some foods are neautral.

Some are poisons & clog it.

I am common or garden type "O",so I eat meat,dip my chips in the blood of a steak kinda thing,also wallnuts & banana's,fish & shellfish.Rice is good,pasta or any wheat based (bread) is not so good according to the book but I eat that anyway.

Also excersise right for your blood type too.....Type O requires vigorous excersise.