Conspiracy Theories...

[Ritual_Kiss]

Just some rambling thoughts on the Conspiracy Theories I've been reading lately.

I love reading them. I love analyzing them. I think people can get some genuine info about ourselves from them. The problem is when people read them, many either discard them altogether, or accept it as secret knowledge without question. Sad, really. But they make for good and accurate mythology.

The mythology of the cloaked elite figure is interesting in particular. When we perceive power that is monstrous but we can't see it, we symbolically create shady humans that are just beyond (and always will be) our sights. Our minds are so powerful that they completely cloak over any of the traits in ourselves that we attribute to "evil." So, we (we, being people in general) attribute it to either existing groups we don't know a lot about or that have control we don't approve of (the Government, the Military, the Illuminati, the Masons, Witches, Occultists, Satanists, etc.) Meanwhile every human being on this planet IS the cloaked figure.

The END OF THE WORLD!!! mythology is never going to go away. Which is not to say it's untrue. There is genuinely a reason to be concerned about our natural resources, and government bodies doing things in the name of the rest of us, of course, but Armageddon as a myth is something that would exist whether there is a serious danger or not. When I look at these apocalypse claims, my first question is "Is this literal, or an analogy?" and it leads to the opinion that so long as there is death on all levels of existence, from brain cells, animals, plants and people, to the end of an era, decade, year, etc. The world is always ending.

Now for the alien reptiles that created us as an experiment and secretly rule the world...At first glance this is stupid, until I entertained the idea that this is the story of our brains. One of the earliest manifestations of our brains from early on in our evolution is the part that controls the flight, fight, fuck, and feed functions, and is often called the reptilian brain. So it was there in the beginning, so to speak. As for it secretly ruling the world, well...

[m1thr0s]

most conspiracy theories are pretty stupid and prey upon the lethargic and denialist mentality of those too cowardly to take a good hard look at the real threats confronting them in their real lives...threats that are not hidden under any veils of secrecy and occult intrigue and might even be preventable if people were not so preoccupied burying their heads up their asses...

so I'm not real keen on this whole form of pulp fiction personally...

m1thr0s

[deviadah]

"If a man makes me keep my distance, the comfort is he keeps his own at the same time." - Jonathan Swift
I think the main problem of a lot of the conspiracies out there - especially the most complete ones - are the fact that they are half-true. Of course everything is open to interpretation, but for instance with the Reptilian Theory (often propogated by Mr Icke) there is a lot of evil talk where I see a lot of good. Nothing is ever black and white. Same goes with the Illuminati, which had some great ideas - I too loath the monarchy for instance... if they, indeed, were behind the French Revolution then cudos to them.

Conspiracy theories are great though, and most of the really tickle the brain because what we really can't know is always the most attractive, and some are quite spectacular.

The word conspiracy is also a good weapon. If one labels a something with this words it instantly loose its respectability: the notion of abrahadabra is just a conspiracy theory... (see how it looses its umph).

This happened with 9/11 where, I think we can all agree, that the official story is not really what actually happened!

[Ritual_Kiss]

I can get the need to find an explinmation thats easier to attain than the cold, hard truth, but I can't see that as a reason to dismiss conspiracy theories alltogether. It's hard to accept for some people that pissed off Muslims killed a bunch of innocent people. Still, we can learn a lot about the nature of our own minds and its use of symbolism to our advantage through those conspiracies.

[Anibis]

I agree with this, RK, but it is more of a study in Illusionary coping mechanisms than reality. Reality needs to be the ground of any productive study of conspiracies. All this being said, the immediate dismissability of anything labled 'conspiracy theory' is the ultimate cloak behind which actual conspiratorial operations thrive. It is very likely that many of the more absurd theories are deliberate disinformation, no?
-Anibis

[m1thr0s]

some things clearly are conspiratorial and when the focus is one of getting to a real and vital truth I can go along with this. I am right now waiting for an important new documentary (called No End in Sight (http://www.noendinsightmovie.com/)) to come out dealing with the Iraq war and the incredible amounts of bullshit that have fueled its whole production. Iraq is one of the first and only military operations the US has ever engaged in where the news media has been legally muzzled to the point that no real news ever gets to the US Public about what is going on there or why, unless it leaks out illegally. Even body counts are forbidden to be reported. If that's not a godamm cover-up, I don't know what the hell is. The same thing has been going on with Afghanistan...the *other* war America is clearly *winning*...:rolleyes:

m1thr0s

[deviadah]

I wouldn't call it the first war this has happened, there was a lot of that going on with Gulf War 1, and with the world wars and most wars actually. In fact it is the way to fight war. A-bomb + Pearl Harbour, 9/11 + Iraq... etc...

War is Peace. Conspiracy is News.

And we know it, but what do we do?

Nothing...

[m1thr0s]

"People get the government they deserve"...Henry Ford

I imagine H. Ford was probably a complete asshole but he may have been right about that one...

m1thr0s

[deviadah]

"A society whose citizens refuse to see and investigate the facts, who refuse to believe that their government and their media will routinely lie to them and fabricate a reality contrary to verifiable facts, is a society that chooses and deserves the police state dictatorship it's going to get." Ian Williams Goddard
:cool:

[Ritual_Kiss]

I agree with this, RK, but it is more of a study in Illusionary coping mechanisms than reality. Reality needs to be the ground of any productive study of conspiracies. All this being said, the immediate dismissability of anything labled 'conspiracy theory' is the ultimate cloak behind which actual conspiratorial operations thrive. It is very likely that many of the more absurd theories are deliberate disinformation, no?
-Anibis

Reality is kind of a trick to figure out anyway, maybe not with perceiving an object within reality, but our perception about the object. "is it bad or good, is it useful, is it malevolent, what is it's purpose?" and all that. I'm thinking our perceptions about reality are within the bounds of reality itself, as it does tend to have influence.

Yah, I agree there are stupid theories put out there that put people off. I used to think there was some menacing cloak and dagger agenda behind it , but I can see it being more likely that they are written by idiots who want to make money lying. It's more disgusting than scary.

[Ritual_Kiss]

...If that's not a godamm cover-up, I don't know what the hell is...m1thr0s

I've noticed officials in Canada are using some of the same tactics used by the Bush administration, lately. Nobodies getting a straight anwser about anything, and as far as an insult to our intelligence goes, that's a kick in the groin. Questions to the Bush administration like "What are we doing there, how many have died so far, how do we bennifit, how is it going to effect everything in the long run, is this the only way, ect." are perfectly ligitimate and reasonable questions. That they say answering those questions is going to jeopardize the mission if that info is known by the wrong people, makes me wonder who the "wrong people" are in their mind.

[m1thr0s]

yeah well, they created a war based upon a threat they knew did not exist using the excuse of an attack on the US spearheaded by a man they themselves created living in a country not even vaguely connected to their attack target and so on right down the line. We expect our politicians to be liars but now we have something much much worse that has not been brazen enough to show its ugly face openly since adolph hitler assumed power in germany. But then, see, he was *elected* too so the whole pattern of hate and deceit and corruption really is building upon itself like a cancer. The truth is, they have perfected the infiltration of the american system and are now perfectly convinced that nothing on this earth can stop them from doing whatever godamm damage they like. Ultimately Americans themselves really are to blame. After Vietnam, the entire system should have been dismantled and all those miserable shitheads thrown in jail for their parts in that colossal scandal. Instead, the same godamm war criminals are running things at the highest levels today.

In any case, there's a lot of perfectly obvious reasons they would want to keep a tight muzzle on the media. The only *national security* these scumbags are worried about is themselves. They themselves know this perfectly well. They make godamm jokes about it over $10,000/plate dinners thrown on their behalf.

America used to stand for something. I happen to believe it will again but it's been avoiding the reality that it's going to have to do some pretty intensive purging of its own house first. I begin to wish somebody really would come up with an idiot's disease or something...maybe a smart virus that only attacks people whose auras are so filthy they no longer qualify as human.

m1thr0s

[Ritual_Kiss]

Yah, Pretty much. Not much to add to that aside from, I know the frustration.

[fr.novumorganum]

Ill just add this (http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/)

[fr.novumorganum]

oh, and this (a real conspiracy) (http://www.newamericancentury.org/)

[Ritual_Kiss]

oh, and this (a real conspiracy) (http://www.newamericancentury.org/)

It's crazy. I heard about the PNAC from YouTube, and I wasn't sure what to make of it. Was this fact, or what? I visited that site and felt very uneasy as a result. It states in perfect English that this organization feels America should govern the world. It's a ligitimate organization with many members in high places. The spookiest thing about this is that it's in plane sight and very few people seem to know about it, or care.

[fr.novumorganum]

No, that's real. Those are the people who have engineered the Iraq War, the Patriot Act, the wiretap program, the right around the bend war with Iran, and the unitary executive theory of the president (which basically says the Prez is a Czar).

Those names are also the leading voices of conservative media (National Review, Fox, Wall Street Journal, Weekly Standard, Washington Post).

[m1thr0s]

Found this quote in an archived web-link:

The war on Iraq has been planned for years by far-right
neo-conservatives.

Their arrogance even embolden them to publish their yankocentric
strategies, not unlike the writings of another era, Mein Kempf by Adolf
Hilter.

In chronological order they are:

1991-92 The Defense Planning Guidance, better known as how to rule
the world.

1997-98 The New American Century mythical rationalization of US
power

2001 The National Security Strategy. the adapted paranoid
version of the DPG

2001 The Strategy to Secure Mid East Interests, blatant
objective to seize control, by James Baker, former Secretary of State,
in secret presentations to VP Cheney 6 months prior to 9/11.

These maniacal position papers document in detail the taking control of
the Iraqi oil fields. In ordinary circumstances, no one would seriously
take the time to read them, were it not for the fact that today, the US
government is led by the very authors of those documents:
P.Wolfowitz, R. Perlman, D. Rumsfeld, D.Cheney, and C.PowellI've heard of these documents but never actually seen them. Norm Chomsky (http://www.chomsky.info/) refers to them in a number of his lectures. I'll have to see if I can track these down...the implications of this are pretty staggering...I have been told that even the 9/11 strike was outlined as a recommended political strategy for uniting the American People behind these world domination objectives. You would just have to find somebody crazy enough to do it and then offer them some believable guarantee of protection after the fact. Afterall...nobody can really hide from US surveillance technology if the US really wants to find you...

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

interesting, and sick stuff. my gut feeling about 9/11 has always been that it was not planned by the Bush crime family, but rather they knew about it in advance and let it happen, for political gain.

[Ritual_Kiss]

I agree. They didn't plan it, but they certainly took full advantage of the situation.

[deviadah]

Well the conspiracies boomed with the rise of the internet and the massive and sudden barrel of information that became available to all. 9/11 is the Titanic of our age. I wonder what the next big shady event will be?

My bet is the murder of yet another US president, or top EU official!

:cool:

PS
Conspiracies contain more truth than any wholesome media outlet!

[Naomi]

I bet if Hillary Clinton is elected she would have attempts on her life made by virtue of being a female. Obama too, he's African American, reminds many people of JFK, and he's rumored to both be supported and opposed by Islamic extremist groups. I hear he's funded by Islamists but he told the US not to meet with the Hamas.

(I say rumored because I don't have time to drudge up news reports right now - I just learned this from someone who goes to the caucuses in Seattle)

And Mccain isn't going to win, fat chance....we're so totally fucked...

[deviadah]

we're so totally fucked...
Perhaps time to use that amendment that the NRA are wanking so much over. Load your guns and march on D.C.

:cool:

[Naomi]

no no no, if anything is to be done it has to be done through peaceful protest, that's what has worked and no one wants another Civil War...

I think the Bush administration has done a fair job of rearranging the face of conservatism in America. I am actually very pleased with the mess he made of things. People are thinking. I watch the little signs, it all occurs under the surface where it's difficult to see - all of the outspoken crowd was outspoken already.

And they havn't taken our second amendment yet. The NRA is pretty powerful though, if you're a member you've got your ass covered if you shoot anyone or lose your gun, anything like that....

I can't even predict what might happen if they attacked gun rights to that extreme...and who's going to listen to gun laws? Not the fucking criminals! People still get shot in New York! Gun laws are just for pussies who think that some liberal bullshit means anything to a hardened criminal...

[Jacob]

I can't even predict what might happen if they attacked gun rights to that extreme...and who's going to listen to gun laws? Not the fucking criminals! People still get shot in New York! Gun laws are just for pussies who think that some liberal bullshit means anything to a hardened criminal...

lol five gunshots half a block away as I read this.

[Naomi]

That is funny - hey I was doing an evocation of Raven (Kangi Tanka) one night and as I'm asking him some serious questions about death and war he suddenly laughs maniacally, turns to the East where I soon hear 8-9 gunshots ring out in the dark. Man that god is spooky.....

I definately think there is an open public conspiracy to take away our gun rights just like it is in "Great" Britain, whose army we originally fought off with guns (among other things)

Who'd invade America in their right mind? Not very many, the entire eastern coast is full of crazy rednecks as is the Western deserts, and you know the homosexuals in the Pink Pistols could defend California on their own....

and last I checked we still strive to be the land of the free and home of the brave.....I just hope the recent war doesn't ruin that image completely. Because, in a lot of ways, it's still very much true. I wouldn't move to another godamned country on earth, except maybe Antarctica or Switzerland (they make awesome guns and allow carry)

:cool:

[fr.novumorganum]

The rumors of Obama's 'muslim' backing is just another right-wing smear campaign, based on bigotry, to discredit a slightly progressive candidate.

[Naomi]

Well that makes more sense - I just asked the guy who gave me this info and he didn't have a source, just word of mouth from work. This is the same guy that told me Hillary was responsible for the health care system being out of balance so I'll just have to mark him down as a gullible conservative freak since I don't take time to really research candidates myself aside from personal reccomendation.

lord.

What are your opinions on Hillary, Obama, etc Fr, personally I say to hell with Clinton, I'm voting for her....most of what I've heard from Democrat supporters is that they're either voting for Clinton for personal integrity, or they're voting for Obama because they're afraid Clinton just won't win in the final election against the Republicans.

What happened to Al Gore? I liked Al Gore!

edit:

Well I went and did a little research

I don't like Obama's vascillation on the issues of gun control and the marriage act, he changes his mind too much, the gun control stance is scary - though I admit, people do change, and his stance on homosexuals is just weird - you either accept the little guys or you don't, you don't halfway support oppressive liberal scumbag laws that obviously need to be taken down. So yeah that's where I am right now on all of that.

I hate people who don't have personal integrity. For me that would be an instant decision, I would just repeal the marriage "protection" law and be done with it, I have no value placed on marriage and people need to be free to explore life as they please. Sounds to me like he just wanted to cover his political ass by winning back homosexual votes.

Then there's the issue of Obama, who strikes me as being completely inept (yes that's fair - I havn't done a complete survey of him, he just gives me that impression) and then we have Hillary's extensive political experience and savvy, yet, she is a woman, and this is what pisses me off - no matter how capable you are, you're still seen as a woman and nothing in this world aside from the downfall of man seems to be able to change that...egads this is why I don't get into politics, it just pisses me off...

But does it even fucking matter if I vote? In the end the majority wins, and the majority is stupid. I'm sure whoever ends up in office will be as dumb as physically possible for the populace...

[Darin Hamel]

The rumors of Obama's 'muslim' backing is just another right-wing smear campaign, based on bigotry, to discredit a slightly progressive candidate.
Thats a Hillary thing with the muslim backing smear. Us right-wingers like muslim morality. :)

[Amur]

If you want to see conspiracy stories manifesting into reality I suggest that you start taking over the planet with magick. There's some pretty ugly shit that will pop up when doing it, not to mention the resistance from different agencies. It's quite crazy really. The funniest thing is that this planet will experience an explosion into a very pure form of love in 2012, which will devastate all these hierarchies and agencies as nothing can withstand it anyway :laugh:

[Apopheros]

I think Obama will win the next elections. It's the Illuminati price to pay against the last republican corporation... in retaliation for 9/11 as well as how they handed the Oil War in Iraq.
It's the Law of equivalent exchange like in Full Metal Alchemist.
Obama has Rockerfeller connections according to this article: http://www.rense.com/general81/abig.htm

So, expect the unexpected

[Dragon]

The presidency, and by extension any major post in the US Gov't, doesn't budge without authorization of the Tri-lateral Commission, the Foriegn Relations Commitee, and the Bilderburgers.


Busssinessesss asss ussssual....

[wiz-oz]

How do you tell a Politician is lying - their lips are moving!

I'm with Dragon. I'm looking from the outside of US politics and the US has the

best democracy money can buy!

How's this for a conspiracy theory:

An excuse to bomb the crap out of Iran is made, US goes on war footing. Marshall law declared - all election bets off. Bush decides to be king for life. Anyone he doesn't like goes to a FEMA camp. Bush dies in office and Cheney take over.

let's try another conspiracy theory - Catholic church and Easter! I prefer to take the 'S' out of Happy Easter and enjoy the egg.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y175/Wiz-OZ/E-Egg.jpg

cheers from OZ

[Luke Saint]

I will say that McCain will win. I don't want him to win, I've been a Democrat since Clinton. I just feel that the Hil. and Obama are dividing the Dem support amongst themselves so much that when one of them finally gets the nomination the Dem voting base will be too muddled up to vote coherently on the Dem nominee's issues without referring to their attacks against the loser of said nomination. The Democrats need to unite over the economy and forget WHO gets in. Just my thoughts.

[Raphael]

Is life a game of snakes and ladders?
Snakes who climb ladders?

Why does the conspiracy often default to a hierarchy of snakes with legs.
Reptiles?

And reptiles later growing wings?
Dragons and stuff?

Here is something I posted on another forum.
Where I defended sticky icky Icke.
;)

Icke's reptilian views came after his 'epiphany'.
Study the effects of DMT in large doses, this might explain his serpentine visions.
DMT is produced by the pineal gland.
The pineal gland has been called a transmitter / receiver.
As a matter of fact ... as always the experts are still learning about ancient wisdom.
We know very little about the brain, in terms of what there is to know.
Hot off the press: An idea that just occurred to me. An epiphany to explain epiphanies.
When an individual (Icke/shaman/moi) experiences an epiphany...what if the epiphany is electro-chemical and the result of a surge or a wee too much DMT being released into the system.

Shamans see serpents...
Icke sees a reptilian hierarchy...
What was my epiphany, how did the serpents being released by the infusion of DMT manifest?

I 'saw' an 'S' and its mirror or mi-ra image and placed together = 8.
And we know the SS = Sanctus Spiritus or the Holy Spirit,

More than meets the eye.
We do NOT see with our eyes.
IMHO

namaste

Ra

[deviadah]

Is life a game of snakes and ladders?
Snakes who climb ladders?

Genesis 28:10-12: "Jacob left Beersheba and set out for Haran. When he reached a certain place, he stopped for the night because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones there, he put it under his head and lay down to sleep. He had a dream in which he saw a stairway/ladder resting on the earth, with its top reaching to heaven, and the angels of God were ascending and descending on it."

http://iloapp.alchemyforums.com/data/_gallery/public/1/1216731209_resized.jpg?width=274&height=464

;)