transhumanism Sources and discussion

[Kuroyagi]

I dont know if there is a thread about this already but I want to collect some thoughts and sources here if its ok with you, m1thr0s.

There are generally speaking three streaks of present transhuamanistic endeavours as far as I can make out (AFAIRemember), and im quite interested in all of them:

1)- "Animalistic"
2)- Sexuality
3) Machine Intelligences and Cyborgs

(add more if you can)

1) is about "reducing" ourselves to body and matter and to some extent to our animalistic selves: subjects like genetics, tantra, cloning, structural principles)

2) is very interesting to me, personally- it deals with metasexuality but not in the "cheap" sense of homos or lesbos and neither with drag queens or gender but truely High Magical and esoteric transcendence and the creation of a completely NEW being.

3) an old hat by now, yet unattained, theres much more in fantsay about robots and machine's intelligence and consciousness than there is on the plate already, but also cyber implants that are already widely used e.g. electric vibrators in the brains of people with complusive disorders, or prosthetics that are getting better and better...

Tell me your musings about this topic please!

K.

[Kuroyagi]

Some sources from the media etc:

Movies:
The Fly (David Cronenberg): a human accidentally turns himself into something else...

China Swordsman 2: A human male turns himself into a quasi female by esoteric practices (though it is never revealved what kind of gender/being he/she actually is, she is womanly though played by Brigitte Lin utterly lovely btw)

The East is Red: The Being from China Swordsman 2, is a non human, is considered as a god and feared but hates it and tries to find catharsis via the destruction of his enemies and the application of "masks", in the end he is redeemed by the love to a woman but he kills her before he can have this insight.

Blade Runner etc...

Books:
Tournier (Friday) written after Robinson Crusoe but with another turn, since Robinson is too alone and Friday comes too late, he "marries" himself with the island and consequentially the sky itself and turns into a female existance, a bride of the sky...merges with the island itself and becomes- in this respect- co-equal with its nature and plants...

Books by Deleuze/Guattari can one also tell much about this btw...have to check them myself...

Hayles (How we Became Posthuman)
Copjec (Read My Desire)
Laclau (Emanzipation(s))
Debord (Society and the Spectacle) written in the 70s but can be well applied to internet forum personalities and chat room ppl...who have not much of a life of their own or a superficial or substitute one etc..yet we as transhumanists have to know this as some kind of negative propaganda also, and not be too pessimistic about this either..
Haraway (A Cyborg Manifesto) and others...

[Nalyd Khezr Bey]

OK, this is my last post until next week.

Kuroyagi,
I'm not real sure what you're intent is with this thread but it has peaked my interest in some weird way that only you seem to be able to do. So if you could explain what you're wanting to discuss or collect here a little more clearly I feel fairly certain that I might have some input.

I'll check in again early next week.;)

[Kuroyagi]

Hmm as you can see that post is already some months old but though I'm not that actively interested in this right now this is always in the back of my mind, too.

This "transhumanism" has many facets: firstly and obviously it connects with magic per se in that it aims to somehow get out of the "human condition" though this may seem philosophically and logically impossible but it can be compared to various things that are alluded to in several magical traditions with terms like beyond Maya or the Demiurgos or the Iron Prison or whatever.

In a similar vein this could also be considered as a mental game of "perspective change" since we are human beings after all, and it can be productive to try to get into "states" that allow us to imagine otherwise. This is an ubiquitous phenomenon with all or most magical traditions from the stone age shaman who "transforms" himself into an animal to alchemy in general and this very cutting edge avantgarde-system by m1thr0s that blends various very old with seemingly new things; modern philosophers who say that: the human state is only a transitory stage (inspired by the ideas around evolutionary theories)- to ppl who want to "become god", "manipulate their DNA" (both magical and medical) and so on...HPL and Schoperhauer and people like Hawking who show us with various methods the human race from a cosmic perspective and sometimes envision the consequences in a very negative or postive light...

One point that I didnt mention is that transhumanism is also a postmodern (20th century plus) reaction to the humanist tradition that was incipiated in the Renaissance. One should not forget this. (And I am saying this because I am very close to Humanism and have even studied different humanities at uni. But this is exactly why I want to "try" the opposite...want to change and experiment.)

It can even stand for opposite things like for some Taoist style anti-technocratic "back to nature" thinking on the one hand, and on the other for the newest developemnts in robotics or cyber implants; or those standpoints could be combined...

I dont necessarily want to discuss anything specific but just wanted to ask you if you have thought about this, too, or if you can suggest to me such transhuman endeavors that I havent mentioned already, or just comment on whatever you like...I hope I made myself clearer and I'm looking forward to your thoughts, Nalyd.

Here is also a Wiki article on Posthumanism (but this is only one tiny part of it I think- and as always: they have made a group (an "ass-ociation") around certain points of this concept)- I'll also have to look into the pdf at the end of the article and if its good I'll recommend it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthuman_%28human_evolution%29

[m1thr0s]

star-theory, as introduced at least as early on as the Upanishads and now undergoing a modern-day revival, is fundamentally transhumanistic in scope but doesn't follow any of the above guidelines too closely. It predicts that human beings are destined by genetic design to evolve into a form of physical being as advanced over humans as humans are over lesser primates. a few misinterpret star-theory (if they assert it at all) to simply pertain to the idea of *liberated* human beings. Humans cannot achieve any significant degree of liberation from their human-ness and still be human as we know it. They are already about as *free* as nature could have made them but for the bondage that exists within their own minds.

It is highly unlikely in my view that humans will realize very much of their star-ness until they are more aggressively attempting to break free of earth-bound coexistence and begin to phase into another relationship with nature itself, but that is pure guesswork on my part. My feeling has been that the trans-human, or post-human potential that exists in this species has a macrocosmic triggering mechanism built into it somehow, so that the expected impetus for its manifestation would typically be transmigrational in scope. This may not be the only way to activate these circuits, but would probably be the most prolific. We already know that human beings cannot sustain much exposure to an off-earth environment without it having a dramatic impact on consciousness. I suspect that this is one of the real reasons we have seen the space program slamming on the brakes as hard as possible. Government, in particular, has no guarantee of being able to control off-earth human beings or prevent them from establishing their own forms of government.

predicting that human beings might be evolving into something closely resembling "gods" today is about as logically sound as predicting that they would achieve flight 200 years ago. The indications are all there and it is reasonably certain that they cannot forever remain an earth-bound species anyway. Their ability to manipulate technology places them in a whole other evolutionary category than any animal on earth and also defines a most probable outcome...if they survive at all, they will have transcended their human-ness altogether.

humans are a transitional species pointed directly at universe itself. The main difference with star-theory over conventional transhumanistic theory is that star-theory predicts that the "technology" required is not artificial at all...that this is something already hardwired into the human design by nature itself. We are already the "stars" we have yet to become.

m1thr0s

[Kuroyagi]

Thanks great post, m1thr0s.

Can you explain further what you mean by "transmigrational" in this quote? This interests me. (like in: chain reaction?, "hereditary", or: "space travel"? )
My feeling has been that the trans-human, or post-human potential that exists in this species has a macrocosmic triggering mechanism built into it somehow, so that the expected impetus for its manifestation would typically be transmigrational in scope.

Apart from that, pertaining liberation I must say that many also in the magical community have- in my view- not even in theory fully apprehended the whole spectrum of liberation. (e.g. by quoting phrases like: "the human being is a social animal after all"...while I'd rather say: "Dont be ashamed if you choose to live alone" (if you like and can get along well etc)...then everyone goes "but, but , but", you know there is really no fixed path of how one ought to live and everyone is talking about chains and shakles when they actually only mirror their fears (which may be considered as "natural" for a human being, anyway...)

[m1thr0s]

Can you explain further what you mean by "transmigrational" in this quote? This interests me. (like in: chain reaction?, "hereditary", or: "space travel"? )oh, well...60's lingo I suppose but still useful in some discussions. the main thing distinguishing *transmigration* from *migration* is the notion of passing through some barrier having a "transformative" impact on the one "migrating" through it. I think your parallel categories are all appropriate ones personally.

I do think too much emphasis is placed on "space travel" and not enough on "space residence". Humans don't have to travel very far from earth to begin to reap the benefit's I am describing and it's even possible that no kind of meaningful space travel would even really be feasible without a certain period of adjustment to these higher anatomical properties...most of which seem to have a great deal to do with the navigating of time for instance...

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

Leary and Wilson were big on that right? Living in O'Neil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Neill_cylinder) environments would lead to the development of the higher circuits of consciousness...

[m1thr0s]

right...and Bucky Fuller and many others. And they were all quite right in my view. The only problem is that it's not going to be allowed to happen without a fight of some kind. I'm quite certain the whole thing has been studied at the highest levels of military and government and has been deemed difficult - if not impossible to manage over the long haul. They concocted a lot of rubbish about not being able to resolve the hydroponics and so on...all bs...what really scares the powers that be is the idea of getting trumped by a program they themselves gave the go-ahead to. There's no denying that this would happen...it would have to. Homicidal monkeys are not qualified to manage the affairs of stars...they never were and they know it.

It will happen anyway but we've hit a snag. But there's nowhere else to go and this species is going to have to go somewhere and fairly soon. At present the world population is doubling every 8 years and that rate keeps climbing even despite aids and war and all the rest...high-orbital civilization rings as O'Neil envisioned (and designed) them is an elegant and a practical solution that would buy us an indefinite cohabitational reprieve...

But more than this...it triggers the "star" mechanism in almost no time at all. Finally I would have a place to teach this stuff where the evidence would be abundantly accessible.

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

It's just one scenario folks...don't freak out or anything.
I always run through these things something like an artist might do various "studies" etc...

m1thr0s

[Kuroyagi]

No -of course we dont know but theres a likelihood that the humans will be up there as fast as monkeys on trees if they are confronted by direct annihilation or if the leader's greed is evoked duely etc...or they may not make it at all (in this scenario).

About the twinstar and the TOL component: from the start I have also had the strong urge to get rid of the up down alignment on the tree. I have always disliked the metaphors of the pouring out of divine energy from above (filling the cups) or: "raising" energy from below and so on and have always felt that systems like the I Ching or equilateral triangles that have only relative up down positions are much more "cutting edge" and actually real and useful somehow the "real deal". You could say that the tetractycal twinstar also pushes one in this "neutral" direction. Of course on earth we have gravity and so such phrases involving above/below are conclusive and apt in this environment.

But maybe you are right- in space the ren/jen component could get a new meaning- namely also as: centre, or as substitute for a gravity well (maybe this sounds crazy too), but the new centre is now the core of our being. It also reminds me of Platons fictional story about the "whole" human being of former times who was round like a circle and androgynous.

I have also experimented with meditational postures. Normally the lotus- the sitting one- is recommended because one can receive "transmissions of reality" better and one forms a triangle etc, as many Zen teachers say. (e.g. look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsFlrdXVFgo&mode=related&search the teacher is trustworthy in my opinion) This is partly explained by our spine being in alignment with the force of gravity's pull at earths centre.

Now I like two position for work (namely for reading, studying and also sometimes for writing): walking and especially lying down. I only sit if I really have to (on the computer or whatever). So I thought: well, if I meditate why make compromises, thats how I like it and thats how I am and so I will also meditate lying down. So Im lying down horizontally with my feet drawn up. And this position gives me new insights, too. It can be seen not as being in alignment with gravity but being in an outbound trajectory to it if one only gets past the now reduced gravitational effect (the "magnetic shield" ;)); one is more perpendicular to it.
So I could imagine that meditation in space is again something utterly different and would pay due homage to the ren/jen component as you have re-introduced it...and would also make obsolete many traditions and set into motion many new ones..

[m1thr0s]

So I could imagine that meditation in space is again something utterly different and would pay due homage to the ren/jen component as you have re-introduced it...and would also make obsolete many traditions and set into motion many new ones..yes it would, but it's not only meditation alone. Simple things that we take for granted are very different in space. The optic nerve itself is radically affected just by being in this type of environment. Things that would require a high powered telescope to view on earth can often be viewed with the naked eye in space. Casually scanning across the horizon in space traverses millions of light years and the eye will adapt to subtle variations in light movement not possible to perceive earth-side. It's not unlike living in a desensitization tank 24/7.

Before they slapped a zipper on their mouths, 85% of all returning astronauts were reporting some kind of paranormal activity during their missions and these are very busy people with no leisure time on their hands at all. The senses stretch out and it is possible that we cannot ever really supplement gravity effectively by artificial means. We may actually have to phase into this higher anatomy just as a matter of keeping physical balance with this kind of environment.

Some of this is surely speculative but it's all rooted in known facts. For the moment, science is (publicly) confident it can manage all of this but I do not believe this sentiment is shared so widely privately. There's been a lot of talk of setting rotation guidelines so that nobody ever spends more than 6 months in a high-orbital environment. Among other things, our bodies begin to lose their structural integrity, bones turn to jello and all the rest...

But if it turns out we have other ways of accessing energy and supplementing ourselves in this way...if it turns out that the real *plasmic suns* are us for instance...we are off to a whole other chapter in human evolution...

time will tell...and in the meantime, we mainly have physics and personal experimentation to guide us...

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

I agree with m1thr0s about how access to this technology is being limited, more so even than the electric car...but there's no way to keep this genii in the bottle.

Also of interest is how many astronauts of all nationalities come back from space changed. And let's not forget how many have reported seeing UFO's. Now I don't believe there are little green men waiting just beyond he van allen belt for us, but I take this as proof of what m1thr0s stated above: once we get there the changes happen fast....

On a different path, I think its important to note how some technology can cause negative developments in human evolution. I think this passage from Al Gore's Assault on Reason says it very well:

To understand the final reason why the news marketplace of ideas dominated by television is so different from the one that emerged in the world dominated by the printing press, it is important to distinguish the quality of vividness experienced by television viewers from the "vividness" experienced by readers. Marshall McLuhan's description of television as a "cool" medium—as opposed to the "hot" medium of print—was hard for me to understand when I read it 40 years ago, because the source of "heat" in his metaphor is the mental work required in the alchemy of reading. But McLuhan was almost alone in recognizing that the passivity associated with watching television is at the expense of activity in parts of the brain associated with abstract thought, logic, and the reasoning process. Any new dominant communications medium leads to a new information ecology in society that inevitably changes the way ideas, feelings, wealth, power and influence are distributed and the way collective decisions are made.

[Kuroyagi]

Good to look at it from this side too, frater. Not only that TV etc is more passive, it could also be said that it creates many "substitue" emotions. Its certainly also true that it has shaped our present western culture immensly but also that fashionable philosophers and consumers of those media often construct new trends around them or blow up issues that are in fact not that extreme (yet). I still remember when "the end of printed books" was proclaimed in the 80s. (yet I hear that recently book sales decrease again- while yet the competition on the "market" becomes more crammed, and it all becomes endlessly fragmented and specified)- so maybe many of those prophesies are only early (another one that comes to mind are all those gender issues around the net that proclaim the increase of transsexual identities based on net personae etc...) but of course those speculations and theories have also their "good" sides: even if not true they create a new environment for ideas and are a new platform for invention (cf eg "beaming") and art- yet art is often visionary and highly prophetic, many artists- and occultists of our ilk can certainly be counted among them I'd say- simply have a very keen outlook on certain aspects of reality. Thats quite undeniable. But on the other hand, looking on our culture with a historically schooled eye its also pretty clear that its highly decadent and even shows dissolving tendencies...

[Nalyd Khezr Bey]

Some transhuman archives (http://www.futurehi.net/archives/cat_transhumanism.html).

[m1thr0s]

thanks Nalyd...fun link.

m1thr0s

[Znanna]

When the body is irrelevant it doesn't matter if a noncorporal is human, alien, Godz or whatever ... except perhaps for politeness' sake.

This would be why I tend to be polite :)


ZN

[m1thr0s]

I have a very difficult time envisioning exactly when or where the body would ever be *irrelevant*...but then...coming from a Koshas perspective the *body* is much more than it seems...

m1