Chapel of gay, lesbian, and two spirited saints of the Moorish Orthodox Church

[rivetrenuck]

CHAPEL OF GAY, LESBIAN & TWO-SPIRITED SAINTS OF THE MOORISH ORTHODOX CHURCH

http://www.geocities.com/moorishorthodoxchurch/QUEERSAINTS.html
(http://www.geocities.com/moorishorthodoxchurch/QUEERSAINTS.html)


Edit: Rivetrenuck, please give some sort of commentary on this site. What is it, what is it's connection to Chaos Magick, and what do you think of it, for a start. Replace this edit with your commentary. -Anibis

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Er...what does this have to do with Chaos Magick?

[m1thr0s]

watch the ALL CAPs rivetrenuck - that's called shouting and we don't allow it.

When you create a post...set it up so that it can be discussed in some way or else save it for some later date when you can offer us some sort of point of view...

links alone don't constitute a topic.

closing this.

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

Okay, after some Admin discussion this thread is being re-opened considering the link is actually good, and bears a connection to Chaos Magick by way of Hakim Bey and others. I think this could be quite fruitful. However, certain items of protocol need to be addressed. I have edited out the All-caps in the title, but the link still needs a commentary. Rivetrenuck, could you attend to that (see edit notes in first post), and I will clean up the non-relevent posts once this is done. If it isn't we'll just delete it, and that would be unfortunate. If you have any questions just PM me, thanks.

[rivetrenuck]

I sincerly apologize for breaking the rules here. i hadnt realised that it was in caps, because being the lazy ass i am, i just copied and pasted the webpage heading.

well honestly i had no reason for posting this, i just wanted other peoples point of view on this.

i m aware of alot of Homosexualism, for the first time i have found tangible people, like those listed on the site.

PLEASE remember that i have nothing against it, i posted really for no reason, just to give a link to something which i though is interesting. and why i put this in the Chaos MAgick section is for two reasons

1) Hakim Bey is assciated with the Morish Temple (chaote)
2) this is very radical and so i thought it fits best here.

please close this post if a problem, i apologize once more for breaking the rules.

[Anibis]

No, it's a great link, and I think it has something to offer. Lets get this thing back on track. Just revise the FIRST POST in this thread, and I'll clear everything else, so we can talk about this. No appologies necessary. Now you know the protocol, so it's all cool. Keep in mind that the reason this site attracts as many high quality folks as it does is because we are serious about maintaining a strong level of coherence. As long as you generally keep to the sort of posting etiquette we are talking about, there is NO problem with whatever you might choose to bring up as long as it is approached in a way that is legal, respectful, and presented in terms of your own reflections (i.e. is not SOLELY composed of links, quotes, or borrowed images). Cheers;
-Anibis

[MythMath]

rivetrenuck,

What are your thoughts on the subject...?

____________________


I personally have nothing against the site,
some of my best friends are icon painters... :p

http://www.geocities.com/moorishorthodoxchurch/MaryMagdala.jpg

This pose seemed familiar to me...

Perhaps this artist was inspired by an old favorite of mine:

http://pishgo.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/national_geographic_magazine_cover_girl_sharbat_gu la_1985.thumbnail.jpg
http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/afghangirl/



Now, back to the Gay Saints...

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Aha. To be honest, I don't really interest myself in the sexual orientation of people or archetypes.

[m1thr0s]

Aha. To be honest, I don't really interest myself in the sexual orientation of people or archetypes.not to mention the questionable conclusions of some of this lineup: Rumi? Tolkien? Gandhi? Ramakrishna Parmaham?

seems to be pushing the line of credibility a notch...

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

yeah, JRR was very hetero; his actual romance with his wife was one of those rare life long romances:yes:

[rivetrenuck]

well my thoughts,,,, hhmm well personaly i have some sorta crisis at the moment i m not sure if i m hetero or homo or both, hence i look to icons such as this to show me something i can learn from, in hopes i can realize better,

and this may seem like a wierd superstition, but those who have wierd sexual orientations are always the most interesting people, and type of people that i can connect to.

when we talk paradigms, cant sexual orientation be considered a type of paradigm?

[rivetrenuck]

but i myself am puzzled as to way the Morrish Site created this page, theres no explanations on the site either, its just a page with pictures and names.

[MythMath]

The site may be 'under construction'...

Get the pages with the images uponline first,
write the accompanying support material later...

[m1thr0s]

when we talk paradigms, cant sexual orientation be considered a type of paradigm?I don't actually think so...not in itself...but it is certainly an underscoring motivational factor. paradigms, properly speaking, usually denote a comprehensive "model" of reality of some kind. Sexual orientation is typically pliable enough that it might fit any number of formal paradigms to varying degrees. It can also mask itself in order to give the appearance of compliance outwardly while inwardly running against the grain...yet still constitutes a part of that paradigm so long as there remains some commitment to it. People always bring their various conflicts with them and these conflicts in themselves do not define the paradigms, yet contribute significantly to how those paradigms play out in the real world.

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

well my thoughts,,,, hhmm well personaly i have some sorta crisis at the moment i m not sure if i m hetero or homo or both, hence i look to icons such as this to show me something i can learn from, in hopes i can realize better,

and this may seem like a wierd superstition, but those who have wierd sexual orientations are always the most interesting people, and type of people that i can connect to.

when we talk paradigms, cant sexual orientation be considered a type of paradigm?

Well, one thing that I have encountered that might be of help to you is the concept of 'Queer' as descriptive of sexuality that is NOT commensurable to the standard Hetero/Homo/Bi trichotomy... For the people I know who use the term in this way (Most of whom are pretty steeped in post-modern philosophy, Queer Theory, etc...), it basically takes the whole emphasis off of abstract identity (I am a 'Homosexual', I am a 'Heterosexual'...) and puts it squarely on what you enjoy actually doing... The notion of identity in any field can be imprisoning (but also, of course very helpful socially, because ambiguity alarms people: People will probably accept a 'Homosexual' before a 'Queer', just because it is easy to understand the unambiguous lable of the former... people like things that 'fit'*). 'I am' statements always squarely place you in certain circumstances... For many folks, we like to dodge being pinned down in that way... You are not so much what you ARE but what you do, what you become... see what I mean? So much meaning has been loaded onto the three-fold categorization of people as Gay, Straight, or Bi, that it is unlikely that those terms fit most people %100 anyways... Everything is a little bit displaced from our labels anyhow... some revel in that, some avoid it, some tickle it lightly....

-Anibis

*Check out Irving Goffman's "The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life" (http://www.amazon.com/Presentation-Self-Everyday-Life/dp/0385094027).

[rivetrenuck]

thank you Mithros and Anibis, those were amazing replies, very wise words.

i had no intentions of this even leading up to this, this is why i like posting random posts, often with no intentions, you never know what it may lead up 2. but of course i will adhere to the rules and regulations of this board from now on.

thank you very much

[Anibis]

Okay, but PLEASE go back and edit your first post NOW, okay?
-Anibis
And I can't speak for him, but I bet m1thr0s would prefer you spelled his name accurately....

[Anibis]

It seems that Tolkien and Ghandi and the like do not class as queer saints so much as "and Other Heroic Saints & Prophets of Pertinent Interest". The point of this chapel seems to be to list some saints of a rather ecclectic sort.... The most interesting thing here is that an 'orthodox church' is canonizing Tolkien... I like that... But look again... it does not actually imply that all these saints are Gay, Lesbian, or Two-Spirited....
-Anibis

[m1thr0s]

yeah, that may have been their intent. A little organization would go a long way with that site I think...

m1thr0s