Guru Padmasambhava & Yeshe Tsogyal Empowerment Experience

[Son of Mr. Gordo]

Last night I took off from work to attend the Guru Padmasambhava & Yeshe Tsogyal empowerment in NYC. In Tibetan Buddhism, an empowerment (initiation) gives one permission to practice a sadhana. In effect, you have received a mind to mind transmission from the Guru to the student. A bit of "realization" gets passed on.

This initiation is considered one of the primary empowerments to begin Dzogchen practice. My main practice is tantra, but have always believed in the Rime movement in old Tibet where all schools at one time shared and supported each other.

Now I have attended many empowerments, primarily for one diety, but none have impacted me as much as the one I experienced last night. This was not even a traditional initiation as these are done face to face, this was given via video transmission on the internet across the world. It was truly amazing, and this was probably the second time I have ever received a true transmission of a practice. Though out of the two, this was most powerful. The empowerment was given by Chögyal Namkhai Norbu, one of, if not the greatest living Dzogchen practitioners alive.

It was an incredible experience that left me in what I can only describe as a state of high with a feeling of strong heat that lasted into the morning. Alot of people who attend these empowerments just go through the motions and believe they have actually received "transmission," but there is no question that they have not. I too have gone to empowerments where I have felt nothing, and I do not count myself as having experienced a genuine transmission. In fact the other empowerment I went to where I felt I actually received transmission, the Lama did the whole initiation in Tibetan; not one word of english, but experentially, I definitely received a genuine intitation into the tantric practice, and I didn't understand a word he said.

In this initiation I received permission to practice many different sadhanas like Simhasukha and Guru Dragphur which are considered some of the most powerful practices for clearing external obstacles. Another great practice I'm excited I received permission for was MO Divination using a mala! The MO practice is something I put on par with the I-Ching when it comes to accurate divination.

Just wanted to share this experience with you all, and also to christen this forum with it's first post :)

Also, I heard that for certain CM lodges like the Golden Dawn there are initiations that are required as well. Is this required of all CM practitioners? I've always had issue with self-initiation like I've read in the Cicero books since I've always believed that receiving initiation should be from someone who has attained a level of power or realization. This is why it makes no sense to me when a novice attempts to initiate himself. Maybe someone can help me with this.

SoMG

[m1thr0s]

This is why it makes no sense to me when a novice attempts to initiate himself. Maybe someone can help me with this.I can only speak from personal experience on this but it is my belief that self-initiation is only really possible where the practitioner has latched onto something greater than himself and is able to pursue that "something" with disciplined regularity. Many people are simply deluding themselves, in other words, but some are not.

Perhaps the litmus test...to some extent at least...has to do with being able to discern the quality of progress possible under both conditions. I find that I personally follow a so-called "principle" which is a living thing for me and a great deal smarter than myself alone. I have been able to validate that assessment over and over again in the kinds of advances I have been able to make simply by tracking it with a vengeance. I can compare those advances to those who have not taken this path and would not trade my position for theirs for all the world itself, since in time, even this is potentially within my grasp anyway...

Self Initiation has its potentiality for falsehood...Initiation under an Enlightened Master does too. There are many false prophets, many bogus standards of attainment either within or without. I choose to follow the light within because it has led me thus far with astonishing precision and power, but I do not doubt for an instant that many have led themselves astray and have missed their target altogether. The risk cuts both ways in my view and in the end one can only determine for oneself which risks are the more worth taking...

m1thr0s

[Son of Mr. Gordo]

I can only speak from personal experience on this but it is my belief that self-initiation is only really possible where the practitioner has latched onto something greater than himself and is able to pursue that "something" with disciplined regularity. Many people are simply deluding themselves, in other words, but some are not.

True, it cuts both ways. From the corrputed "enlightened" masters to the mentally ill, it is a fine line when it comes to initiation from a Guru or one's self.

SoMG

[Amur]

Initiation in itself is a fine symbolical gesture to start something. It might give some good tail-wind in the beginning journey.The more put into the symbolical part of the initiation, the stronger it can be. I think that the Masonic type rites have been quite effective as a symbolical tie to it. Many make themselves categorized as something because of the initiation. In a way it's nothing but another birthday.

Why not try initiating yourself to God sometime and see the effects it has on your mundane actions/and others around you :D

[Son of Mr. Gordo]

Initiation in itself is a fine symbolical gesture to start something. It might give some good tail-wind in the beginning journey.The more put into the symbolical part of the initiation, the stronger it can be. I think that the Masonic type rites have been quite effective as a symbolical tie to it. Many make themselves categorized as something because of the initiation. In a way it's nothing but another birthday.


Yes, it seems that the masonic rites of initiation is very powerful as well, and I'm not sure I would shrug it off as another birthday. I think a symbolic rebirth in this life can have a profound effect on one's view, which can in turn effect one's actions.


Why not try initiating yourself to God sometime and see the effects it has on your mundane actions/and others around you

Well, I don't believe in a God when he is used contextually as an un-moved mover as such. However, I can see "God" being used in a pantheistic manner in terms of a dependently originated energy. As a Tibetan Buddhist, part of one's daily sadhana is to initiate one's self each day. And yes, it does have a powerful affect in my day to day life.

A an interviewer once asked HH Dalai Lama if he was afraid of death. His answer was "No, I die six times a day." This was a subtle reference to his tantric practice of six-session yoga which is his daily sadhana, part of which is the self-initiation which encapsulates death and rebirth.

SoMG

[m1thr0s]

I have followed the career of Sri Krishna Pattabhi Jois (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_K._Pattabhi_Jois) to a certain extent since I have a number of friends who practise Ashtanga Yoga. Pattabhi Jois is regarded by many as the world's foremost authority on Ashtanga Yoga and people flock to his Mysore School from all over the world in droves. I happen to have caught a video interview with him where he discusses the whole idea of being a famous "guru". He makes it very clear that this is not a title he has adopted for himself. He simply refers to himself as a student, yet many others call him their "guru". I have heard this same kind of conversation from numerous other spiritual masters as well and it causes me to believe that true initiation is always self-initiation at bottom, yet an experienced "student" may be able to facilitate the progress other students seek but have great difficulty achieving on their own. Yet even the greatest gurus can only set the table, so to speak...they cannot actually serve up the meal itself.

If you need external guidance and this is doing you some perceivable good, then why concern yourself about it...there is certainly nothing wrong in this. Yet, depending upon the exact path another may happen to take, this may in some cases be a luxury not available or not applicable to them...should they abandon all hope because there is no one there to lead them to where they need to be? I think not. I think that initiation is a flexible sort of thing that can occur even between an artist and his canvass...that work itself is ultimately the real impetus and everything else is just so many props along the way...nice to have if it happens to be accessable, but never really absolutely necessary.

Certain theories of knowledge suggest that necessity itself is capable of breaking all the rules if need be and that it is somehow possible in certain instances for people to access information they have no earthly right to and no ascertainable authority to access at all, yet if the need is great enough they may be able to access such knowledge anyway...knowledge from past masters...knowledge from other worlds...knowledge from who-knows-where exactly. Somehow, I think that this is true. It may not be possible to prove that it is true, but I think we can find many instances of such things having occured for no apparent reason...enough to conclude that the pattern itself is verifiable more or less all around us.

m1thr0s

[Amur]

Well, I don't believe in a God when he is used contextually as an un-moved mover as such. However, I can see "God" being used in a pantheistic manner in terms of a dependently originated energy. As a Tibetan Buddhist, part of one's daily sadhana is to initiate one's self each day. And yes, it does have a powerful affect in my day to day life.


Actually thought about initiating into a God, not God. As going directly into unity itself with everything seems a bit dramatic an unnecessarily psychotic imo. Trying to get away from it to be honest.

In many aspects I think many hinder themselves from reaching something just because they believe that they are not worthy or just because they believe something someone said 20 years ago. An initiation might help to create a whole new category which dodges this blockage.

All rituals in themselves are excellent ways to make an internal change. Try banishing your whole fear aspect from yourself. Things might become quite transparent when there are no fears to go on with.

[Radiant Star]

[quote=Son of Mr. Gordo;1794] This is why it makes no sense to me when a novice attempts to initiate himself. Maybe someone can help me with this./quote]

I used to be very prayerful as a Christian and set time aside at least once daily to meditate. Eventually, there is some kind of deeper experience and there are initiations of a sort, a definite feeling of transmission and a closer link to something else depending on what you have focussed on.

When I took up Ceremonial, there was a definite time when I felt that I must dedicate myself to the next stage due to either communication with myself at some deep level or from another source. I have no doubt that it is perfectly possible to progress throught the stages of a system without necessarily having another human being there to guide you.

I suppose having someone there who decides for you makes it easier in some ways, maybe even frustrating if you feel ready and they think you are not, or as you have mentioned SOMG, having been prepared and seeming to have received nothing.

[Tmind]

The best teacher, is the student of all.
The best student, is the teacher of all.
There is only one guru.

With God, all things are possible. Matthew 19:26


actually thought about initiating into a God, not God. As going directly into unity itself with everything seems a bit dramatic an unnecessarily psychotic imo. Trying to get away from it to be honest.


To be a child of God, is to grow to a Son of God.
To be a Son of God is to become, a God.
There is only one God.
Cast aside all doubt and fear in the mind, and the body of the world shall follow.

Peace, Light, and Love to You All!!!

[Anibis]

To expand and contract at the same time. To achieve unity and difference at once!
Spinoza calimed that God and Nature were one. That God was basically an infinite substance which had infinite attributes(Characteristics which carry across the whole Substance), of which human could only percieve Though and Extension (Mind and Body). It also has infinite modes, which are individual 'hypercontractions' of this substance. Me, you, a tree, a coffee mug etc.. Add to this picture the notion of a dynamic frothing continuum, ala Nietzsche (via Schopenhauer, via India), and a sense of temporal co-prescence to all of its moments and memories at different levels of intensity ala Henri Bergson, and you have a very consistent monism in which one can comprehend both science and art: the great uni-vocal whole, as well as the superintense striving of some particular incarnated mode of that whole... Anyhow, this is how I tend to see it, put simply... The Whole and its internal expressions resonate with one another. This is IMO to be connected...
-Ibisis

Edit: What is initiation? Self initiation? to open up ones awareness of the attributes of the divine, and to manifest that new awareness within the modes one occupies. to bring about thereby a semi-stable space in the chaos. True will being essentially the catching of a momentum proper to ones own particular mode... The purpose of sumbmitting to external initiations is so that one gets' ones bases properly covered. We are too vulnerable in the emerging stage to our own likes and dislikes. At this time, it helps to have a Hierophant to establish the field of play so that we can 'earn our wings' so to speak. BUT, like in Academia (Which was the Order that Initiated me), it can be the case that though one has wings, one is discouraged to fly, and so instead acts just to facilitate the same initiating process with others. One graduates only to return to the service of the Institution...

[Kuroyagi]

Maybe it also depends on the tradition and where it puts the emphasis: In the East it seems to depend more on the teacher and a student who meticulously copies him at first, while the modern West puts lots of emphasis on scripture (and initiation via inner or astral entities)- to me its somehow suspicious that I "have to feel guilty" when only doing learning from books and trying out various things on my own; the present magickal paradigm is also somehow idealizing the (Indian) guru-system. Yet maybe this is all quite relative: it could change with time and circs too. I e.g. read that in the early Zhou-dynasty China (ca. 1000 BCE) when the Yi Jing was laid down the newest and most used practice was scripture (writing) and literature which in itself was seen as a ritualistic and magical practice [before that it was e.g. oracle bones, and before it had been (shamanic) dance], and that thereby the text commentary "ci" is as valuable a part of its "power" as the "gua". By this example I can also see how much we take out the parts that resonate well with our inclinations while leaving out what we have no interest in. (e.g.-to construct a case- literature vs mathematics).

[Okazaki Castle]

Now I have attended many empowerments, primarily for one diety, but none have impacted me as much as the one I experienced last night. This was not even a traditional initiation as these are done face to face, this was given via video transmission on the internet across the world. It was truly amazing, and this was probably the second time I have ever received a true transmission of a practice. Though out of the two, this was most powerful. The empowerment was given by Chögyal Namkhai Norbu, one of, if not the greatest living Dzogchen practitioners alive.



Physical presence not necessary. Aka, 'Damn! When did the internet get so damn powerful?!'

Internet, with all its criss-crossing wires, looks very like a global spider's web, and so much like the Thule grids, or other such mindgrid systems, eg HAARP. Of the lot, I'd contend internet is the most powerful, for it has intent in it, lots of it, mainly in fact from porn and violent online computer games. Substantial stuff that. Which can be used to power-up materia.

Of course, gurus do not need to use internet. Nor do they need to use physical presence. Mind alone, or intent alone, is enough for a true master. But is it enough for a true student?

How ya doin' btw Mr Son? Always fun to bump into old acquaintances...

Regards,
Oazaki.