Black Iron Prison

[deviadah]

Ever since I read the Valis trilogy the phrase The Empire Never Ended has haunted me, as has the concept that it express. I would love to quote some important passages, but I have actually not these books here where I am now. Fuck, I need them actually.

Anyway I googled a little and found this statement:

At first it seems that this is a fairly obvious (for a Dick book) reminder that the Roman Empire, a manifestation of the Black Iron Prison, which is itself a manifestation of the sickness of our universe Yurugu, has not actually collapsed. It did not actually collapse because the break-up and fall of the Roman Empire occurred during the simulation of time created by the Black Iron Prision after time stopped because of the sacking of the Temple of Jerusalem (70 AD). Time only restarted in 1974 when Horselover Fat had his first encounter with VALIS. What happened during this time did not really happen.

Upon closer inspection, the phrase appears to have deeper meanings. Wouldn't you just know it. The Empire, as noted above is a manifestation of the sickness of our universe, which is called Yurugu. Thus when it is said that the "Empire never ended" we are also saying that the sickness of the universe has never ended. This is an important fact to remember, which is why Fat uses it so often.

"The Empire never ended" is entry 6 in Fat's Tractates Cryptica Scriptura. It is scattered liberally through the rest of the Tractates Cryptica Scriptura, featuring (usually at the end of the entry) in entries 15, 20, 21, 25, 29, 40, 45, and 47. Elsewhere in the book the phrase always appears in inverted commas, presumably because it is being quoted from the Tractates Cryptica Scriptura. - source here (http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1296459)

I thought it could be interesting to have a thread on all this and such concepts as Anamnesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamnesis), and I post it here in Gnosticism because that is where I feel it belongs (but mods please move if you can think of a better place).

I have personally experienced the feeling of being in two places at once, and the sensation that time is still (which it is anyway). History does not repeat itself, it's all constant. Not before the false reality is burned away will time actually begin to move forward...

Ave Bush! ;)

Also check this out: The Religious Experience of Philip K. Dick (http://www.philipkdickfans.com/weirdo/weirdo1.htm) by Robert Crumb

[Kuroyagi]

I would like to contribute a book recommendation here:

Lyotard (The Pacific Wall), 1979
Amazon.com: Pacific Wall: Jean-Francois Lyotard: Books

In this fictive-philosophical work he also lets the protagonist draw the parallel between the Roman Empire and the U.S.- with him, as an Assistent Prof. in California (cf. Lyotard), in the role of a metoikos (dweller of the periphery), like a Greek tutor/scholar (what Greece was to Rome, is Europe to the States) in relation to a Roman citizen.

But this is all embedded in philosophical speculations and postmodern thought on the nature of centralism or its de-facto non-existence, or about the building of empire on the supposition that there IS a centre, and that there are "those who are less cultured" when there (in fact) is not. In this aspect its magical: only the urge for expansion and "marto"cratic aggression creates it (and its Limes); as in society: only a supposed difference in class and/or colour or any other antagonism like woman man...barbarians/civilised creates the stage in front of which the power-mongers can act and dominate, even though it is illusional.

[deviadah]

Thanks for that.

My reading list just gets longer and longer... soon I need two lives in order to be able to go through them all.

:dazed:

[Nalyd Khezr Bey]

Hey deviadah, good topic. I noticed you attempted to revive an older but similar topic in the Gnosticism forum on OF recently with no real luck. I have had a vested interest in the works of PKD for a long time because my own experiences parallel his in a lot of ways, particularly in regards to Anamnesis (http://current23.blogspot.com/).We have not yet achieved the distant closeness of time honored infatuation. Humanity continues to dream the false continuum of manufactured intermediaries. We forget that we have forgotten our forgetfulness... perpetual amnesia. We are not autochthonous. We have been planted here.Anamnesis = is man sane?

[deviadah]

I noticed you attempted to revive an older but similar topic in the Gnosticism forum on OF recently with no real luck.
Yeah, I have had many such OF experiences... that is why I left... it's all green and indigo/purple forums for me these days! :laugh:

PKD is one of those authors that becomes very personal. I don't know if this happens to everyone who reads his works, but it seems that those that do feel like this. Too bad the films they make of his books are so shit (in my opinion). A Scanner Darkly is the only truly one that works... (even if K. Reeves is in it)!

I also tend to find it difficult to read his stuff... I have to really be in the mood so it usually takes years in between books. Like they are waiting for my brain to be ready for the input/trip.

Although VALIS will probably remain the most important one for me, as does the B.I.P concept.

:cool:

[Nalyd Khezr Bey]

Reading PKD is similar for me except that I tend to just happen to read one of his books at just the right moment I need to and, by synchronicity, the ideas in it just happen to be right where I'm at in the moment. I particularly like The Cosmic Puppets though it's usually considered one of his minor novels. Something about it resonated with me at the moment I first read it because it went on about the creation of golems and what was termed "m-kinetics", i.e. magic."These maps," Hilda said, "are to be considered adequate symbols of the territory below. For this attempt we must use the basic principle of M-kinetics: the symbolic representation is identical with the object represented. If the symbol is accurate, it can be considered the object itself. Any difference between them is purely logical."

M-kinetics, the correct term for the archaic, timeless processes of magic. The manipulation of real objects through symbolic or verbal representaions.And of course VALIS. Some of those conversations in that book sound too close to home at times.:o_O:

Have you ever looked at Erik Davis' book TechGnosis deviadah? Given some of your preoccupations (which seem very similar to my own at times) I think you'd really dig it. He talks quite a bit about PKD and how Gnostic and Alchemical ideas relate to our current "information age". Check out his website - TechGnosis (http://www.techgnosis.com/).

As for movies based on his stories, I agree. However, I have enjoyed most of them when I just don't think of them as being adapted from Phil Dick. A Scanner Darkly is by far the most faithful and is really the only one that deserves Dick's name on it. I did think Spielberg did an OK job with Minority Report though and I understand the changes that were made. The original story as is really would not have made for as interesting a movie.

You have to admit though, there have been better movies made out of PKD's work than have been made out of Lovecraft.;)

[deviadah]

I never knew of that guy... thanks for the link (I'll check it out).

Yeah the films are not that bad, but what is annoying is the fact that they often become ACTION FILMS, when the books ain't: NEXT and PAYCHECK are two perfect examples (and the stories behind them are great)!

Would be cool if Darren Aronofsky did VALIS trilogy! I'd watch that!

Poor HP. Lovecraft... it's weird that they don't make great films of his works since they are crammed with atmosphere. I guess producers are too wrapped up in plot rather than atmosphere (which to me is much more important).

A great atmosphere and a great plot = a fucking great film! Sadly these kinds of films are uncommon.

I know what you mean with Syncs... get that a lot with PKD. I think the reason is that he somehow kept his finger on the constant intellectual pulse of the world. It resonates well... (his ideas that is).

:cool: