World of Fish

[Dragon]

Qabalists here might get the pun, so to speak. And others probably as well. Meaning I credit everyone with a baseline of reasonable intelligence. including the bunnies, as they have had the insight/foresight/oversight to engage in communication here at abrahadabra.com. I have expectations, wise or not, of the level of conversation launching from here, and a genuine curiousity as to where the subject matter will lead, both idealogically, and implicitly. There is a standard to be set, so strive to strike at the heart of the matter. For the center is where we truly stand.

After years of tracking this whole "internet thing" as a medium of conversation, and watching some of the craziness and inanity (sic) that has plagued plagued predecessorial forums, I have great faith in
m1thr0s' discernment and scrutiny in keeping things at a "stratospheric" level. As for myself. Greetings. I am Frater An; If there is to be a label, I suppose Mutationist is as good as any. Eastern, Western, Solar, Planetary, Internal, External, Galactic, Particulate, Waveformational, Interdimensionial, The Visible, The Invisible, The Tangible Universe, and the Ways of Love and War. All that is known and unknown.

These are my traditions. These are my waters. But a little fish I am, in a very big ocean. Other fish there are, and other oceans as well. And perhaps I am not even the fish, but the sum of its parts, and greater then its whole. Perhaps I am the ocean. Yet again, perhaps I am nothing at all.

Who am I? for now, I am Frater An., even if someday I am not.
What am I? I am you as well. I.I.I.I.I. ....sigh. Where is the we....?!
I am that. I am this. I am what? I am why? Who am I you ask?!?!

Well... I Am! And I love you still. Because the law is the law. And that's all.

Fr. An

[m1thr0s]

Great to have you with us Frater An...I have sorely missed you insightful posts...perhaps you needed a better platform and hopefully this one will work...

The key to I.I.I.I is the balancing of opposites implicated within the name itself. Therein lies the "we"... Perhaps the inoccuous points that separate the letters are the clue, if you prefer (technically there should only be three of these)...I always seem to find it there at least...

edit: numerologically, there is an implied 41 numeration going on here as well. Tai Hsuan Ching enthusiasts will recognize this as the center of the system...the mean of the 81 Shou (Tetragrams, Chiefs)...Jen Above and Below etc...so the name is "sneakier" than it appears...hehe

I look forward to your posts...you have a keen mind and it's a crime to keep it bottled up my friend...we must both break that awful habit...lol

m1thr0s

[Kain]

Greetings and welcome Frater An, it is good to meet you!

Kain

[Dragon]

Kingu was a moniker coined for OF, and some of you remember me as that. Frater An was a name I used while I was living in Oregon, but, After a bit of thought, I decided to replace it here with my known professional/magickal name in the "outside " world. For over 20 years I have been known as Dragon in the Seattle area both within the Circles, and Backstage. As I have moved back to Puget Sound, I felt it most appropriate to just go by my known handle. I thank Admin for facilitating this, as I know it is not a usual practice to switch out.

It is time for me to intergrate my offscreen and onscreen contacts. If you ever meet me in real life, you will find that I am consistant with my conversations and practices through in and through out; and a bit of co-ordinating online will be going on for outside events....more on that another time.

Now that is settled, back to that cat....the 50 pound one. ;)

Truly,

Dragon

[Kain]

"Professional" names are important, that's for sure. I hadn't realized it was you (Kingu) but welcome once again, and now under your actual magickal name, Dragon!

It is great to have you among us.

Kain

[fr.novumorganum]

Glad to see you'll be posting here!

[Anibis]

Hola, Good to hear from you. You said you were into doing tech at parties? I'd love to hear more about that sometime. I am very interested in theatre, and related disciplines...
-Ibisis

[omniprosopus]

Hey Dragon aka An aka Kingu! Whew - you get around a lot!

Welcome to AF, secret haven of extreme eclectics!

-omni

[MythMath]

Please explain: I.I.I.I

I'm attempting to 'connect the dots'...

Thanks for all the
bio-re-programming
that stretches my brain/etc...

[m1thr0s]

I.I.I.I (properly I.'.I.'.I.'.I) is an alchemical formula following the protocol of the "Fourfold Name of God" around which tetragrammaton is fashioned. So far as I know I am the only one to have asserted its property. Unlike the traditional teragrammaton, it is comprised solely of the elements of Fire & Spirit, since I=Fire and .'. =Spirit. In the heirachy of elements it describes a condition in which the four elements are collected into a primal state...a kind of "Firstborn" condition since here the four elements are manifest as four distinct elemental groups but are still contained within their "parent" element...Fire being the Source element from which the four elements derive. Obviously Spirit is still the Root element underscoring even Fire.

So what we have here is an alchemical puzzle of sorts and a curiosity that has no certain explanation, yet follows tetragrammaton protocols to the letter and MUST amount to something just on this basis alone. I can only give you my impressions as to what it implies...

In archetypes, it would be nearly identical to the character of Apsu in Sumerian cosmogony...Father Dragon, Husband to Tiamat...Primal Firstborn manifestation just after On which would be more akin to .'. all by itself. "Father Nature" essentially, Pangenetor on a universal scale, spelled out elementally, without regard to personality. I equate it very much to High Alchemy and in so doing I can only tell you that I worked with this formula for a number of years...dwelled upon it frequently and sought to apprehend its mysteries etc. It's a very powerful formula and also very dangerous, just according to the kind of power it defines. Compared to stars, it would be something very akin to a black hole...entirely self-contained and collected into itself, while at the same time extended so that it is an integrated part of the rest of physical universe as we know it. It comprises a raw and deadly kind genius similar in many respects to Ptah or any of the most ancient "Self-Created" archetypes on record. I have only tapped it remotely and really only could have tapped it remotely in any case, according to its sheer vastness and intense gravitational force, making it nothing to take lightly, the better you understand its property.

It actually has nothing to do with "I AM I" and that whole formulation. If anything it is the alchemical Thoth to which "I AM I" plays a poor ape in comparison/relation. Rather it offers a much more tantric slant on the whole dynamic of "I" from the start, distinguishing this as a supremely balanced sum of four parts against the middle exalted in triangulated "Nothingness" (or Spirit), whereas "I AM I" only really asserts a diadic double-talk in the final analysis...

There is a LOT that could be said of this formula. I wasn't really supposed to mention it at all and now that I have let it slip it still comes back to bite me in the ass every 6 months or so. For the mostpart people either don't get it at all or get it incorrectly enough to think it completely unimportant. It might even be unimportant if (1) it weren't so correctly constructed and (2) it weren't stacked to the hilt with mega-firepower...

But that's the outline of its principle as I know it. There is more to be said, but like I said, it's one of those very few things I probably should have just kept my mouth shut about. The thing is...there is such a powerful intelligence underscoring it. I never felt entirely comfortable about being the only person I knew who might be aware of it...Nevertheless, much like the Tao, a lot of what can actually be said is entirely inadequate at defining the thing itself.

Finally, I should probably point out that I hit upon this formula through meditating at length on the principle of "Hadit" as referenced in the Book of the Law. It classes as an alchemical spelling to that self-same principle. For personal reasons, I was never entirely confident in the name "Hadit" anyway and sought to understand it's equivalent alchemically instead of relying upon a "given" name that is highly suspect from my own personal perspective.

m1thr0s

[Okazaki Castle]

Now you are Dragon, no longer Kingu? Hail then Dragon, I like your style, and your material seems of highest calibre.

Interesting material on the nature of the 4, or four-fold, btw m1thr0s. Have been looking at that formula since you first posted it on OF btw ;)

all the best,
Okazaki Castle.

[m1thr0s]

In some ways you could say it was just a "personal" formula...and perhaps that is so, but I hardly "own" it or anything and it is built upon the logical rules laid down in tetragrammaton itself. I think that in some ways it probably links back to the Nuclear Hexagrams, where we find its principle defined fairly apparently on the extreme YANG side of the equation. And there can be no doubt that this is an extreme YANG sort of elemental formula. I really have to assert that it shouldn't be played with lightly...this thing is altogether volatile...the original "high explosive" alchemical equation. But it was arrived at logically, which is probably why I let it drop at all. Like any number of things I have explored, I find myself wondering why the hell nobody has ever asserted it before when the rules supporting its assertion are perfectly obvious... Even Crowley seems to have missed this one, yet he speaks of Fire & Spirit as the ruling elements concerning the Aeon of Horus...ok...so there it is then...make of it what you will. For myself, I think it may not be possible to define a more powerful emanation of space/time continuum within the established guidelines of tetragrammaton.

For the record, I have formally adopted it as a magickal name...although it rides shotgun to just about every other personna I may employ magickally. It is a name I assign to my "Secret Genius" but it is not limited to me...anybody could assume this name if they wanted to...like I said...I don't own it. Be careful though...this thing is very dangerous and while it has a very definite sense of humor, I would have to say it was extremely "dry" relative to what you might expect in a sense of humor... It almost doesn't even matter me telling everybody this since even I just barely grasp the outermost edges of its genius...But it gives me a very lofty target to aim at and I do feel it has been responsible for much of my "creative" successes...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

Thanks for that...

[m1thr0s]

you've got a keen eye for the "good stuff" MythMath...lol...

I spotted that about you right off...so have others, by the way...

I think I need to run an article on the magickal name and its practical applications...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

Fortunate to Be
in the
Right Place
at the
Right Time
...
..
.

[Dragon]

That a simple thing got so much play...Although I have known of for some time of the employment of I.I.I.I. as one of M1thr0s' handles...hehehe, It's true it just does come elementally, it was this simple I + I + I + I + I = We.
Which of course relates to it's hidden nature as well...Hadit...lmao! Indeed! And whom better to toss it around! Pop! Pop! Poppoppop!!!

Now...on to the chuckle part...you cats better go back to the abacus...at last count I had listed five I's ....

I always was partial to pentagrammaton...I'm just a romantic sucka that way.



Love always,

:rofl: :laugh: :rofl:

Dragon

[m1thr0s]

hey, 5's are cool...6's, 7's...all have their merits...
this particular formula (as I employed it) was built upon the rules of tetragrammaton...
not the only rulebook in town of course...:)

one cool bit...I.I.I.I.I as you have employed it adds to 50 so we have something going on with respect to Sanskrit and several other things I can think of (50 is an important number both in Chinese and Qaballistic lore)...

I still don't see the "WE" especially...I'll take your word for that I guess...
50 is also the middle number in the Qaballah of 9 Chambers...

1......2......3......4......5......6......7......8 ......9
10....20....30....40....50....60....70....80....90
100..200..300..400..500..600..700..800..900

maybe this is where the WE comes in...or perhaps checks out...

m1thr0s

[Okazaki Castle]

Be careful though...this thing is very dangerous and while it has a very definite sense of humor, I would have to say it was extremely "dry" relative to what you might expect in a sense of humor... It almost doesn't even matter me telling everybody this since even I just barely grasp the outermost edges of its genius...But it gives me a very lofty target to aim at and I do feel it has been responsible for much of my "creative" successes...



Hmm, sounds a bit like how I view Kain Doshi. Who always enters on a 4 incidentally. That summarizes in terms of physical life action as *Kills someone first* (4 is the number of death in Japan) then says 'Hello'. Get people's attentions that way, and they listen carefully, and obediently...

I propose that it would be interesting and instructive to expound on this thing's character. For example, what its tastes and values are, how it behaves relative to strength and weakness, where it lies in relation to certain characteristics like justice or love. And what it's sense of humour is like, most importantly.

I propose that we refer to it as a thing, in accordance with m1thr0s's already-stated approach there, from my perspective because it is funny and insulting to do so and might piss it off if it has pretensions to character. Unless it is androgynous or sexless in some way, which I doubt and personally don't think so, but the Sirians always seek to copy everything and make it all androgynous, so you never know...

And yes, I agree, it is about the most powerful force on this planet and in this physical region, or universe perhaps even. It is also very responsible though, and that is why it hard to criticise it or get annoyed when it whacks you for something or other, just as a gentle reminder of your own responsibilities. As I fundementally want to be irresposnible now, that puts me at loggerheads with it in some way, and hence that in turn provides a test/proof of the relative strength of our alchemical workings. As well as it being very yang, I would also say it has a consummate style, and is very intense to be in the presence of.

ps Dragon: used that pentagrammatic principle yesterday on HSBC (been trying to take possesion of that banking network for a while...). Seems useful/powerful as an approach. Lets me lock them in the space between the hexagrammatic and the pentagrammatic. I think. Still stabilizing my awareness there, feeling my way round the larger workings that are in place around it...

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Okazaki Castle]

Ah, sorry, just realised the implications of the fact that you'd taken I.'.I.'.I.'.I as a name. Let me make it clear there then, and thank-you for your patience and indulgence on this score: I never attack friends, except for Kain Doshi himself. I do interact with makles solely thru the war gateway, but that can express as philosophy, chilling after the battle, or fighting together instead of against each other. For example, relative to your alchemical system working with Genetics, I would use that combined with my alchemical working with Time, to fulfill the set of results we both aim for.

With Kain Doshi, we hate each oter intensely, and also respect each other absolutely. By bouncing the ahte back and forth between us, it is possible to produce an acceleration in destruction and so change, and also 'pass on' that force to others, eg targets.

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Naomi]

::narrows her eyes::

[m1thr0s]

Ah, sorry, just realised the implications of the fact that you'd taken I.'.I.'.I.'.I as a name.I suppose it hardly matters since this member is no longer with us but this kind of bullshit misinterpretation of my assertions is just one of the reasons this is so...

I use these forums to test a lot of things...even things that no one is ever going to be able to grasp...just to see what connects and what doesn't. I.'.I.'.I.'.I is not a *name* that can be assumed per se...that is to say...it is not an archetype that can be altogether assimilated. It is indeed a name...an alchemical name to be precise...for the Great Mystery Principle itself as well as I have been able to peg it, placed in the general context of Perfect Being. Yet the nature of this *name* is intrinsically incomprehensible...that is a vital aspect of its function in point of fact. It can be compared to a Lamp that I may draw to for insight beyond my own natural abilities or limitations. It is not...nor have I ever said that it was...a personal personna of mine, anymore than is the Tao itself. It is an alchemical name for that which forever remains technically *unfathomable*. We can discuss its qualities to some extent but we can never exhaust or predict its character...not even sort of...

Some people's impudent stupidity knows no bounds...this much at least is evident.

It might be questioned why even bother with such a name? And actually...I never advised that anyone should do so. It is a light I draw to and here in this place I am delving into all manner of personal disclosures. It may be useful to someone in some way to know what sort of "lamp" this guy called *m1thr0s* finds worthy of his attention...so there you go...not that it actually helps anybody to know much of anything about anything really... As alchemical principles go, I.'.I.'.I.'.I is a serious heavyweight. That much I can relate from personal experience. It is something akin to a matrix intelligence underscoring all elemental universe and, in general, I tend to regard it as the Universal Alchemist, or first and foremost Alchemical Genius that can be defined linguistically at all. There are certain technical considerations leading to these conclusions but it all takes a lot of time to lay that stuff out and I'm not terribly motivated to do so. If you have the name, you can scrutinize it at your own discretion...it follows classical form so is not inaccessible from that standpoint at all. Anyone having the name is free to assess it...but be careful to assess it skillfully. This one can definitely chew you up and spit you out just for being an idiot.

m1thr0s

[Kuroyagi]

What I never understood about certain people is why they keep on telling about things that they must know that no one else would understand (Kain Doshi etc)...it is a magical technique and probably helps with manifestation, sure, but yet it would be as if I suddenly were telling you: oh you know Gunter hes always so cool and he doesnt like to hang out with Mimi, yet shes more interested in Roger anyway..I mean what the fuck and who gives a fuck anyway?

Another thing "we" and I myself too, have to take care of is to not use too many cliches. This danger is very alluring and emminent nowadays since the leaders of our culutral dialogues (hollywood harry potter etc) stuff them into us night and day...and so its an act of balance between wanting to be understood well and keeping ones integrity (and intelligence if one has any of those), yet not selling oneself overly cheap either...cliches also about how to view magic I mean...must we all be the same and yet: is everything of equal value (as the pseudo democratic opinion-terrorists want to make us believe...I have to think about this, too.), nothing "sacred", even most personal things to be dragged into the public cause it has a "right" to know etcetc...its all connected (another phrase!..how can we escape the ubiquitous idiocy, if we ever can etcc ;))

[Naomi]

cool, that is neat.

[Kuroyagi]

Do you never "struggle" with such questions Naomi, or are they not important to you, maybe...maybe youre right, Im an idiot...but yet I can remember my school days when all kids who were so damn sure of all this life business, what one must do how one "is" (supposed to be) what aims one should have...tbh over the years I have come to the insight that not a single man with any amount of greatness lacks this struggle...I dont say that one has to be squeemish or lack self confidence all the time, but reflect his own self on a deeper level

...but theres also the magical teachings that seems to say that one is perpetually relaxed sees all as a picture show, and basically that the ego doesnt change, one can be enlightened and then return to ones old ego personality...but what is that, is it that static? Can you help me with these questions, Naomi?

[Naomi]

I had a dream about you the other day, I'll get to it in the dreams folder.

[MythMath]

It can be compared to a Lamp...

It may be useful to someone in some way to know what sort of "lamp" this
guy called *m1thr0s* finds worthy of his attention...so there you go...
Thanks m1thr0s, I was hoping someone would
continue this thread when it reappeared recently...

There seem to be a lot of 'lamps in my path' lately...

I tend to regard it as the Universal Alchemist, or first and foremost Alchemical Genius that can be defined linguistically at all. There are certain technical considerations leading to these conclusions but it all takes a lot of time to lay that stuff out and I'm not terribly motivated to do so. If you have the name, you can scrutinize it at your own discretion...it follows classical form so is not inaccessible from that standpoint at all. Anyone having the name is free to assess it...but be careful to assess it skillfully. This one can definitely chew you up and spit you out just for being an idiot.
Sounds like you're offering nukes to newborns here... :no:

What's the most appropriate way for the curious student to
become more aware of all of this without courting disaster...?

Or is it, "if you have to ask, you're not ready"...?

[Naomi]

The I.'. formula is beautiful beyond words

[m1thr0s]

danke LadyH...your aesthetic sensibilities are really very startling. This is one of those few things I have dropped almost timidly, thinking, oh well...nobody will get it anyway...but they should have the information at least subliminally. But not you...fuck subliminals, eh lady? How the fuck you do that I'll never know for sure...

MM...the real reason I bring this out at all is because it qualifies as an important magickal reference to the rest of the work that followed on its heels. And that means just about everything I have thus far outlined regarding Abrahadabra, Trigrammaton & Mutational Alchemy in general. In a chronological sense, I.'.I.'.I.'.I came first...it was one of my first really serious attempts at synthesizing the whole idea of a Universal Intelligence of any kind and I spent a fair amount of time on it. So it is a seed property that has prevailed with remarkable distinction thus far and it is and has been my feeling that this *principle* has brought me a great deal of information I would very likely never obtained without it.

That makes it a player in the whole equation and since it follows classical form as well regarding magickal names in general, it seems prudent to at least reveal that card to those who may have their own ways and means of validating it. But beyond that...I am hesitant to drag it out at all and we see the reason I think...for the mostpart people will tend to read it stupidly which strikes me as a poor payment to be returning to it for the things which it has brought to me. So it's a rock and a hard place situation to some extent...

As to the dangers & damages etc...I really couldn't say. I know a little about this intelligence and I would not like to be the one lined up in its crosshairs personally...There's a whole lot of things I would take on without much hesitation...this cat isn't one of them. So sure, the potential for trouble is there I think if you approach it in all the wrong ways I guess. But it's not gunning for anybody in particular and isn't looking to rip anybody a new asshole or anything like that...not that I know of at any rate. It's more like a force of nature...you can fire off everything you've got at a cyclone if you're dumb enough to try it. That cyclone doesn't give a shit one way or the next...it has its own agenda. If you behave intelligently in its presence you'll survive it...if you don't, you probably won't...same sort of deal here magnified something in the hundreds of millions... This one is dark by its very nature. There's no getting around that...it's like the "Hidden" assigned a proper name...

That's probably about the best way I can describe it...

addendum: among it's visible numerations is the number 41 by the way, counting the I's as 10's and the triune .'.'s as a 1. In the 81 Tetragrams, 41 is the Axis and is built entirely of Jen lines, so this is an important number to be aware of... It can also be viewed as Twin 11's and a range of other relevant possibilities...Elementally it is built entirely of Fire & Spirit elements...so something like the Djinn on a Universal Scale then...and indeed...it could be viewed as a Satanic icon if you elected to...though fairly apparently nothing like the Hollywood version or anything. It bears a striking resemblance to the so-called Sat-Tan Principle from Sanskrit, meaning roughly "Darkness Extended" but also "Being Extended" and so on. It is not the same thing as the Tao, by comparison...it has a certain form...it would be more akin the Architect of Form to which Maya would be its shadow.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

huh...I just watch the watchers, and stay low to the ground, find the cracks.

I mean - you came up with it out of nothing

Like...nine dragons - it's the tenth through the sixth. Yeah that makes no sense either probably...to most people. It doesn't process. In-betweens are important, you blink and it's gone, you just missed the window of oblivion, yeah the dragon's eye peering into the box.

If you understand I.'. a bit do you have a chance of surviving it? I think so. A a more awesome question is, can you survive attempting to wield it? That doesn't just require intelligence, it also requires wisdom, and void mind. budo

My instincts tell me that a lot of people on this board would survive the chance to make their time. Which means stopping motion, taking back your time by overcoming the wheel of karmic returns itself. When the wheel rises, with you on it, you empty out and grab someone higher than you and hang on like some sort of freaked out cat on crack. They're under no obligation to hold on to you, so it's actually scarily faith based. Because we're just not that intelligent. (I don't mean you m1thr0s) Not smart enough to hang on to the brilliant light of morning for the entire universe. It's the sword of truth, first. and the only way to stay there is to eliminate doubt, fear and all kinds of mental or even to some extent physical problems due to the sheer mindfucking stress it will put you through. Is it worth it? Hell no! Not by any rational standards! How do you tell someone it's worth it to lose everything you ever knew, everything you ever desired or dreamed for? But it's fucking fantastic! It sounds crazy. So, no, I don't want to talk about it. lol

That's all pretty far out. Yeah but not too far out. People need to understand what this is all about and why it's important to them in any kind of rational context. You can't walk around in magic being afraid of your own shadow, there are much less savory things coming down the timeline in the near future than divine fire.

selflessness isn't too much to ask, of anyone. I mean what else can I say to them? Deal with it, humanity - that lesson is ten thousand years old, it is the essence of strength, duty and even honour.

An intrigueing pair to the I.'. is the reference point in The Inferno where we see Satan kneel deep in the ice of hell's bottomless maw fanning the flames that fire up the entire inferno below the universe. Isn't that something worth taking a look at? If that's not occult, it's very fucking mysterious! Hey the sun's pretty cool too....

Yeah, look, we live in a universe that can destroy us a bazillion different ways. There's no reason to assume something so powerful will simply crush an individual with a little wisdom and insight...

naomi/

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I.I.I.I (properly I.'.I.'.I.'.I) is an alchemical formula following the protocol of the "Fourfold Name of God" around which tetragrammaton is fashioned. So far as I know I am the only one to have asserted its property. Unlike the traditional teragrammaton, it is comprised solely of the elements of Fire & Spirit, since I=Fire and .'. =Spirit. In the heirachy of elements it describes a condition in which the four elements are collected into a primal state...a kind of "Firstborn" condition since here the four elements are manifest as four distinct elemental groups but are still contained within their "parent" element...Fire being the Source element from which the four elements derive. Obviously Spirit is still the Root element underscoring even Fire.


This reminds me of interpretations of the triskel, with its three arms representing earth air and water which are united as fire, which in times past was the quintessential (sic) element.

[m1thr0s]

I.'.I.'.I.'.I actually has quite a lot to inform us regarding the property of Self and Self-Identification in the fires of transmutation. We see certain references to this principle in Hemetic Alchemy in various places...the whole notion of elevating Self to a state of Higher or Perfect Self and then standing upon that foundation to drive the vessel Home... It's all about the equilibration of opposites and is not about the negation of parts per se...save only to some extent in the "Neti-Neti" sense, but not in the more common diadic good-self vs evil-self sense.

So there is a principle of equilibrated ego going on through all of this that can, in fact, be grasped better than the nonsensical fantasy projections of some completely unjustified redemption from above etc... How is this supposed to profit Life in any remarkable way...Where do all these redeemed losers expect to go that will not erode all around them as their relative uselessness finally sinks in?

Truth comes at a price and that's a fact but the price you pay keeps your ass glued together when others have run out their luck and finally arrived at nothing they can cling to.

Better to start from nothing to begin with I have always thought...But now I think this little diatribe has probably run its course. I mainly needed to correct a potentially dangerous misconception going on here. I had totally forgotten this thread even existed to tell you the truth...

This reminds me of interpretations of the triskel, with its three arms representing earth air and water which are united as fire, which in times past was the quintessential (sic) element.Sure...and depending on how you approach it the whole principle of Trigrammaton is visible in either visual glyph. Art has a curious way of circumventing words in this way since what comes together artistically is always interchangeable with other expressions of the same essential truth. Words get caught in semantic loops and people go to war over punctuations, inflections and assorted syntaxes. In that sense, being human has never really worked out all that well for humans.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

yes I agree.

The formula for original (divine) water would be O.'. wouldn't it?

[m1thr0s]

Hard to say conclusively Naomi...words are all about consentual associations so nothing is ever universal at that level alone. The letter O certainly has historical linkage to the notion of Primal Waters though as we see in Om or On in particular I think.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

[QUOTE]What I never understood about certain people is why they keep on telling about things that they must know that no one else would understand (Kain Doshi etc)...it is a magical technique and probably helps with manifestation, sure, but yet it would be as if I suddenly were telling you: oh you know Gunter hes always so cool and he doesnt like to hang out with Mimi, yet shes more interested in Roger anyway..I mean what the fuck and who gives a fuck anyway?


Wot, like Thelemites and the people from the Golden Dawn clubs?

:laugh:;)

Right, I don't say anything about Kain Doshi because - I know what he is, if not who, exactly. Nobody should care. We should keep it that way, right? :dull:


Another thing "we" and I myself too, have to take care of is to not use too many cliches. This danger is very alluring and emminent nowadays since the leaders of our culutral dialogues (hollywood harry potter etc) stuff them into us night and day...and so its an act of balance between wanting to be understood well and keeping ones integrity (and intelligence if one has any of those), yet not selling oneself overly cheap either...cliches also about how to view magic I mean...must we all be the same and yet: is everything of equal value (as the pseudo democratic opinion-terrorists want to make us believe...I have to think about this, too.), nothing "sacred", even most personal things to be dragged into the public cause it has a "right" to know etcetc...its all connected (another phrase!..how can we escape the ubiquitous idiocy, if we ever can etcc ;))

Yeah we shouldn't start referring to scrying as pensieving, cuz then every twelve year old is going to grow up thinking scrying always entails the use of a fancy silver bowl of water - which it does, sometimes. I would hate to see anything get lost to the monstrous realm of Hollywood. They make terrible movies.

(usually)

[Naomi]

Hard to say conclusively Naomi...words are all about consentual associations so nothing is ever universal at that level alone. The letter O certainly has historical linkage to the notion of Primal Waters though as we see in Om or On in particular I think.

m1thr0s

Yeah I think you are probably right about that...or maybe it's M, or D...could be anything really...the element by its very nature is too elaborate to say exclusively. Even E...the trident.

A formulae for Akasha would be pretty intense I think...

(that's from Bardonian Hermetics, somewhat...)