Pseudo-Science a.k.a. Science

[deviadah]

There is one thing that bugs me and I really can't explain it in words. But I'll try... it's about the power of science. On the news, in books, in school - even on the Internet - an argument always stands or falls on science. This is very annoying.

What makes it right? Same with an individual who has got a Phd in, for example mathematics, will be more respected than one who presents a mathematical theory without a degree. Also if something is stated in a book it is more right than if just spoken from the gut.

In the end the basis for facts are often just something a person wrote down in a book. Why is printed words such a law? Same goes with a scientific fact. Why are they so hard to dispute? Certain facts have only been proven with lab mice, then written down on paper, accepted by the general scientific community and hey presto it is FACT!

I will even go so far as to say that gravity does not exist. As of today I still have not seen it proven 100%. Yes, an apple falls to the ground when dropped - but is that because of gravity or because I see it fall to the ground? Is it the spoon who bends, or I?

Wait!

Now I am getting into what is called pseudo-science! Well I propose that Science is the only true Pseudo-Science!

Of course I learn from books, and I love science... and this is just a rant - but all these thoughts are important, or so I feel. Here's some food for thought that I found cruising the digital universe:

A scientific theory is: "A well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena." So for an explanation to pass the test of being a "scientific theory" it must meet a higher standard of rigor and generality than "my guess". First: Scientific theories are seldom, if ever, "right" or "wrong" in an absolute sense. Second: One has to be careful about tossing the term "proven" around loosely. What does "proven" mean? By its definition a scientific theory is "organized", "generally accepted", and "widely applicable". - source (http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen01/gen01890.htm)

How can feeling truth be pseudo, and seeing truth be scientific (and by feeling I don't mean believing)?

Philip K. Dick wrote, and I paraphrase, that reality is that which doesn't go away when one stops believing in it!

So if the effects of, for instance, self-healing of a tumour remains - even when science proves it impossible - does it not make it true (real)?

Isn't it funny that when someone is cured of an illness, and science says that such a recovery would normally be impossible, people instantly jump into words like miracle.

The human race is in two camps: those of science, and those of religion!

But what about the Occult?

Isn't this area the most supreme since it keeps one foot in religion (feelings) and the other in science (seeing) - and it's head in the realm of the unknown... that place priests dream about seeing when they die and scientists when they calculate.

But the Artists; s/he can go there anytime!

:cool:

[Kuroyagi]

Now this is a really good topic and an extremely huge one.

So for starters let me for a change take an antagonistic position to the point you made.

It's absoluetly correct that science has acquired the status of a cult if not a religion in certain regions of Western society. Yet to many discoveries that are "postulated" there is a lever equally if not more disgusting than scientific arrogance, that makes them more "objectively provable": namely money and marketablility of a discovery. If nuclear power wouldnt be so damn practical I'd guess that no one apart from a few thickly glassed otaku-science freaks at some institutes would even believe it to exist. But it can be applied and it works and thereby it is real. This also goes for completely non-sensical discoveries that are marketed like...whatever video games or shiny food packages...no apparent practical value yet theres much research going on there...

Now on the other end- the often besworn "masses" are as stupid and as credible as ever (and I despise them daily I can tell ya!!;))- yet instead of believing in religion they now sometimes believe in science on a very primitive level too or substitute their religious belief by a (pseudo) scientifc one- like in the phrase: "it has all been scientifically worked out", meaning: its too complicated but we can believe/trust in it, anyhow.

Most actually have a general but quite primitive view about various topics and things that is transmitted and supported by the media, yet NOT in accordance with the cutting edge scientific developments who are too specialized and too "complex" to figure out for anyone, yet everyone uses *some* of those trailblazing discoveries on an everyday basis, so this somehow gives credibility to *all* the things that come from that camp...yet there are *sociological* surveys that claim or: say! (and I believe it, too) that over 50% of the populace believe in quite idiotic things like a *literal* god-father in heaven or whatever- YET did they all tell the truth? How relevant is the average democractic opinion anyway, is the sociological method more than a game of chance and is for that matter economics and the stock market more than a game of chance either?? Yet those things can create realities too! etcetc...!

I could write a whole book here, but have to stop somewhere..;)

[deviadah]

So for starters let me for a change take an antagonistic position to the point you made...
Bring it on... it is the only way I will ever learn! In fact it is the only way to dig deeper into ones own brain; to question it, and sometimes if others do that it helps even more.

The classic scenario of someone getting really angry at being questioned about something tells more about the shallow foundation of the belief in question than of anything else. If one is certain, why get angry! :p

Anyway, I stray now...

I like all your points... and I feel this subject is massive too! But it fascinates me utterly. In another thread you spoke of Heidegger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Heidegger) and you said that he will be the great philospoher of the 20th C or something of that kind. Well, you are wrong!

Sadly, like Nietzsche and Wagner, he has been touched by the Nazi's and regardless of what the FACTS are the general mass will forever deem him unworthy henceforth!

Although I might care less about this, and I do think he has some great ideas, yet the masses are the Rulers - NOT the Outsiders! Not yet anyway... :laugh:

So what has this got to do with this thread?

Well, when the masses hammer in the nail of a certain fact it is almost impossible to drag it back out again. And science is a fucking powerful hammer. Wasn't it Mark Twain who said something like a lie will travel the world before the truth gets its shoes on...

I got a friend whom I really enjoy talking to because he is an extremly logical and right wing person (and very smart I must admit, impossible to beat at chess)! And I like his company because he questions everything I say, and he always wants the hard facts to my statements.

Now this can be annoying. Science doesn't always have all the facts - especially not the important ones. This is because there is not much scientific study going on in the right area; pineal gland, OBE, telepathy etc.

If we can figure out a way to turn the Third Eye into a weapon I bet you that the scientific community will make some great discoveries before the end of the year!

Money is not the root of all evil, failure to judge what is important is!

:cool:

[deviadah]

This is because there is not much scientific study going on in the right area; pineal gland, OBE, telepathy etc.

My life is ruled by Synchronicities... this thread has been going for only a short while and a friend of mine read it and sent me this link:

Brain Research Institute (http://www.brainresearchinstitute.org/) | The Brain Research Institute was created to explore the unlimited possibilities of the human brain and its relationship to consciousness. We, at the BRI, feel that the latent brain potential of our youth is the nation’s greatest resource.

She had been to a brain-related seminar earlier today!

:cool:

[Kuroyagi]

Money is not the root of all evil, failure to judge what is important is!

Unfortunately its often one and the same thing: too many believe that money is the most important thing, necessitated by a (somtimes faulty) belief of that ones survival exclusively depends on it. Sometimes it does for sure, but even in societies where it does not like whatever- Sweden or Austria, group pressure, greed or feared loss of "status" keeps the hamsters peddling in their wheels...

The things you wrote about Heidegger are also true, one also can often encounter this on message boards etc. Some who do not care for *the things* themselves, for the arguments or who lack knowledge will fall back to such arguments. Heidegger for example as far as I know was in the Nazi party a short time but then soon saw his mistake and even his girlfriend, the Jewish philosopher Annah Arendt "forgave" him...but that doesnt mean shit to me. Sorry, but if Hitler himself would have written such philosophy I'd still deem it good (though I wouldnt approve of the person)....yet Hitler was a boring and pathetic writer, too...;)

Whatever, you are right I think that "science" doesnt follow up on various occultish lines of research. This is in my view due to two reason: for one its method still isnt fit for it (but I'd hope for changes there!). And secondly it is- as you said- not "proper" for any scienctist of good standing admitting it. Not in private which falls under belief/religion- but publicly, in the scientific community itself.

As I said: good and huge topic cause there much more here. For as much as I love the artist- and you know that I do- there is also a very great danger in a purely aesthetic view if applied to the world.

[Kuroyagi]

Yeah cool I'll check that link too- *I* can afford to do so..;)

[deviadah]

For as much as I love the artist- and you know that I do- there is also a very great danger in a purely aesthetic view if applied to the world.

Quantum Mechanics could be the link between the real and unreal?!

I am all for SciArt!

Join the two (science and art) and a third concept (sciart), far superior, will be born!

Dream on... it will never happen!

Some people actually say this to me. In fact people often say that regarding any form of idea like; freedom, peace and hemp driven cars!

Why will these ideas never be possible?

United we sleep, divided we dream!

:cool:

[Kuroyagi]

Yeah Dev we have had that discussion before if you can remember :). You still believe very much in the world- or lets say in changing human society- and I truely appreciate it, but I simply have basically tagged it as "ineffectual" for my studies...well, not as extreme as it sounds but to some extent- and I do use it and also love the persons and individuals. And as you could see by my post about science and maybe other topics- I DO know whats going on and I very well care for it and am living in it, but I will not let it break me or turn me into some sort of beast, I have also studied not only the state of affairs but also history and I simply cannot believe in any kind of social revolution anymore...but thats a huge topic as I said...;)

p.s. on the basis of individual SciArt its all quite possible. I agree with that- but one neednt worry about anything else maybe..

[deviadah]

Yeah Dev we have had that discussion before if you can remember... but thats a huge topic as I said...

I love this discussion! :) And if each post we make chips of just a tiny piece of this huge topic then one day it will be all gone and done! :rofl:

You know K you are probably one of an extremely small elite that has thought I was positive in connection with the world. Most think I am a cynical arrogant fucker! :laugh:

I have seen things change with just the mention of an idea. I believe in a revoultion, that is true, but like Bill Hicks I think it will be a revolution of ideas (of the mind)!

I welcome NWO, dogma, war, terrorism, patriot act - because it will only make the indigo race angrier!

When science embrace art, it will be of the same scope as the day Darwyn shattered Genesis!

Perhaps an individual revolution rather than a social... and I will not give up this dream. If I do I have failed... there are many drops that make up the sea and I am one - and truth always prevail! The good - in the end (even if it is long in coming) will always win! Reason - and love - can't be defeated!

Even if it take a thousand years the idea of Freedom of Mind/Body will one day become a reality! And even if it won't the idea of this dream will improve the human race as it proceeds forward till the end of our Sun!

I have about 50 years more in me (give or take if all goes ok) and in those next 50 years I will have about 18 000 days left!

If I spread the idea of Freedom and SciArt (which will bring about freedom of the mind/body) everyday, and if only 1% listens and continue the same dream/idea then there will be 180 people!

If 180 people live for 50 years they will have over 3 000 000 days, and if 1% listen there will be 30 000 people = 30 000 + 50 years x 365 = well it's a big number and 1% of that is also a big number.

Conclusion: ignite an idea into a person and you change te world!

Sure, but there are millions of stupid ideas that change even more people!

No, the idea of Freedom and Peace of Mind/Body - the idea if infinite love - can never loose! It is too powerful!

:cool:

[Kuroyagi]

You are the most noble kind of idealist I have ever seen, Dev, I have to grant you that! :)

Your ideas are not that far from mine, only more group oriented it seems.

About the dangers of a society basd on an aesthetic view- in the current model of the human spectrum- as far as I can see and evaluate it from this position, we will have to talk another day, but I'd like to do so.

[deviadah]

About the dangers of an aesthetic society- based on the current model of the human spectrum- as far as I can see and evaluate it from this position, we will have to talk another day, but I'd like to do so.

Yes, I look forward to it!

I don't mind to question or be questioned!

When it comes to the possibilities of the mind resistence is futile!

:p

[deviadah]

Last week there was a debate in the news-media about cheating scientists. The reason they cheat is because they need results!

Let me explain; the government only grants a scientist about 3 years to finish his/her research. If there ain't any results by the end of these 3 years the scientist won't get more funds - i.e. they cheat just to be able to continue their research (cheat = invent results they haven't yet achieved)

It is indeed a sad state of affairs. But the scientists aren't to be blamed for this I think... 3 years is nothing in some areas of research, so the government should be more generous. Yet again MONEY has become an obstacle for the mental evolution of mankind!

What fuck-ups we are!

:cool: