Yeah...

[Luke Saint]

Is the use of Datura Stramonium considered wreckless? I used it a few times with ill effects, oral ingestion being the worst. Has anyone used this to positive means as per Carlos Castenada's books? I smoke a lot of Cannabis Sativa and I find that so much more exhilarating than datura...., in a down-to-earth, party-pooper way. Datura is obviously the superior drug, but can it lead to and revelational experience within the continuum of human thought? Much peace. LS

[m1thr0s]

Is the use of Datura Stramonium considered wreckless?beats me...probably some think so. I keep missing the boat on that one...like it will come up and I'm ready to give it a try and some weirdass thing will intervene...so i haven't been able to investigate it first-hand.

Datura is more like a narcotic though isn't it? This was my impression at least...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

2 EZ 2 OD...?

[m1thr0s]

is it? been used in India for millennia though.
I think you just have to prepare it correctly...I am told no part of the Datura plant does not have some medicinal properties...

m1

[MythMath]

Regarding Datura, among the Navajo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_people) is the folk admonition,
'Eat a little, and go to sleep. Eat some more, and have a dream.
Eat some more, and don't wake up.'

The effects of Datura have been described as a living dream: consciousness falls in and out, people who don't exist or are miles away are conversed with, etc. The effects can last for days. Tropane alkaloids are some of the few substances which cause true hallucinations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinations) which cannot be distinguished from reality. It may be described as a "real" trance when a user under the effect can be awake but completely disconnected from his immediate environment. In this case, the user would ignore most stimuli and respond to unreal ones. This is unlike psilocybin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin) or LSD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD), which only cause sensory distortions.

The doses that cause noticeable effects, and the doses that can kill are very close with datura. This makes overdosing on Datura stramonium very easy. This can be fatal; it can cause fevers in the 105-110 (40-43°C) range which is a range that can kill brain cells, and lead to brain damage. There have been many instances of teenagers looking for a cheap high poisoning themselves to death on datura. If someone overdoses on datura it is advised to induce vomiting, to wash out his or her stomach, and to get the person hospitalized immediately.

If taken recreationally and the user does not notice any conscious effects, most people redose thinking it's not working, which is why overdoses are so common. The user doesn't realize that he or she was hallucinating. Some users have reported seeing an array of people from their lives. A few anecdotal reports also mention the user's perception of "phantom cigarettes"; the person believes that he or she is smoking a cigarette only to find that it has disappeared later, thus realizing that it never existed. At the peak of such experiences users often enter a true psychotomimetic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotomimetic) state, in which they "lose touch with reality" altogether; at this point, many find it difficult or impossible to communicate with others.

A majority of users who have written reports on experiences with this drug have described those experiences as unpleasant and often terrifying. This is possibly due to their having taken excessive doses. The powerful effects of Datura continue until the body metabolizes the tropane alkaloids.

Scopolamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopolamine) is the primary hallucinogen in Datura wrightii (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura_wrightii) from California and other Daturas. Scopolamine can be slowly and erratically absorbed into the brain. In most people, scopolamine reaches the brain within an hour or so after ingestion and causes visual and auditory hallucinations. In about 25% of people, scopolamine is very slowly absorbed into the brain, taking up to 13 hours to enter the brain. These are the people who are at the highest risk of overdosing. They become impatient waiting for their recreational high and take more of the plant extract.



from wiki

[Talkingfox]

Thanks MM. These are the very reasons that I don't play w/ Datura and I'm generally pretty fearless when it comes to planty bits.

[m1thr0s]

Datura never struck me as a particularly "recreational" drug...it's interesting it contains scopolamine...I'm almost certain hospitals have used this to bring people out of LSD "overdoses"...would need to research it more though...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

I remember reading about the use of scopolamine
on women in hospital deliveries in the 50s(?)...

It would render them temporarily paralyzed,
(often including speech faculties), but it would
strangely heighten pain sensations, anxiety and fear...!

Oh that's okay, cuz it also induced retrograde amnesia,
so they'll never really remember it (they'll only forever
connect thoughts and feelings of the birth with vague terror)...

Fucking cruel...

The OBs preferred these 'hysterical patients' to be
still and quiet, as it was 'better for the baby'...!

Granted my source was a book for parents preparing
for a home birth, but the AMA was a wild buncha
mavericks back then; curin' all the world's ills...

Like natural childbirth...!

Another link:

Sober Circle Article on Dangers of Scopolamine (http://www.sobercircle.com/index.asp?node=resources&section=articles&fileid=8)

[Frater CaO]

Datura is probably the last thing that Ill experiment with.
It doesnt matter if its a natural or chemically produced hallucinogen, every type can give you massive insights and revelations.
Cannabis has been the ultimate one for me though, it was the biggest piece of the puzzle that led me to Occultism in the first place. Cannabis is a mild Psychadelic Hallucinogen. If you ingest enough you will notice different hallucinatory effects eventually, the first and most noticable is the auditory hallucinations.
I like to classify Cannabis as a potential Schizophrenic Hallucinogen.
Not only does Cannabis have the possibility of unlocking the resting Schizophrenic side within people and make them psychotic. It can also act as an sort of initiatory drug for Schizophrenic types of mild Psychosis.
There is a threshold which I havent ound completely yet, where one goes from really intoxicated to almost completely Psychotic.
Personally I think this is the most "fun" stage, where you have little if no control at all and the mind is completely raving. It is NOT something to aim for since most people get Scared out of their wits and the fear is the root to permanent Psychosis. And we dont want that now do we?
In most cases these psychotic stages ware off after some time IF one does not keep using, but for some unfortunate ones like both of my two cousins, it stays and becomes worse to the point that it needs medical attention.
To bad that we havent got enough information to properly treat psyhosis and schizophrenia yet, all we do is medicate and that is hardly enough. Perhaps in a few cases but only some really rare ones though.
Well, Im out to eat some now, I will definitely get back to this thread when I get home. I cant get enough of this subject and I know there is never enough to say either.

/HL!

[Frater CaO]

Datura is one of the most dangerous natural hallucinogenic plants due to being so difficult to administer adecvate doses. Its the plants nature to be so troublesome, the poison can be devastating. I have friends who has been stupid enough to play with it during their younger years, and it is hardly unknown that it can cause coma or even death in worst cases.
All the hallucinogens can be used to achieve meditative or trance induced states if properly used. Even the mildest ones can have tremendous effects.
Alot of people tend to differ quite alot between the natural ones and the chemically produced like LSD etc.
But the truth is that all is actually more alike then they are different.
It all depends upon how you use them.
My mind went blank, need to stimulate it a bit with some yoga, ritual and sufficient amounts of some other stuff. Get back when I am properly stimulated so I can add something useful.

/HL!

[Apopheros]

Can Datura Stramonium be the famous spice in the novel/movie Dune?
Because it sures sounds like it.

The Sleeper Must Awaken

http://jahtruth.co.uk/dune.htm

[Luke Saint]

I recall a recent event with datura that took place back in November of '07. I took a half pod of seeds and after an hour I began to see the walls kind of glow with that bluish-purple that you see when you look at a bright light and then close your eyes. The walls were overtaken with that and then I lit a joint (which wasn't real, i don't think) and I then saw a big purple-bricked wall before me. One of the blocks had a face on it, a bearded man looking at me in sorrow. I ran into the wall and then the next thing I knew I remember being at a friend from up the road's house trying to crawl out his back door. He was screaming at me to chill out, I didn't know what had happened.... I left and went home and went to sleep. I later found out from my friend that I had been talking to his fridge asking it if I could climb in or if I had to wait until I went to heaven. I don't remember a thing of it other than the purple wall... Oh well, c'est la vie.

[m1thr0s]

well that's some pretty horrific tales so far...dissociation is rarely very useful, although the *after-trip* can be alluring, thinking about all the bizarre things you might have done etc...

I don't much need to confirm that the brain is a powder keg at this point in my life so maybe I'll just skip this chapter altogether...

m1

[Luke Saint]

I don't much need to confirm that the brain is a powder keg at this point in my life so maybe I'll just skip this chapter altogether...


Not at all terrible advice if I say so myself. Rather wise advice actually unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing.