Fitting the LSD and THC onto the Tetractys points

[MythMath]

This thread is intended to discuss the

Fractal/Tetractyl
arrangement of the
Tai Hsuan Ching

It is effectively a sequel to this earlier thread:
Fitting the Lo Shu square into the Tetractys triangles (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=980)

____________________________


Figure 1. Nine Elements forming the Tetractys, shown with the TwinStar

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/MythMath/AscendingTriowithTwinStarcopy.jpg
Figure 2. Graph below demonstrating how the 9 elements shown above actually represent
the 9 ternary bigrams that fractally regenerate the entire THC of 81 tetragrams (and beyond):

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/MythMath/Roundascendingtriograms.jpg


Figure 3. Animation demonstrating the coiling chronology of the 81 THC tetragrams,
with the central LoShu Diamond revealing the Cycles of 9:

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/MythMath/THC-LSD-widders-only-for-IR.gif

[m1thr0s]

all your stuff is great looking MM...it always is...but we have a fairly complex discussion to hammer out with respect to the assigning of elements to points. It may seem like a little thing and in some ways it might be...yet in other ways it succumbs to an oversight...potentially hazardous if not addressed.

In the truest Pythagorean tradition, the only attributes suited to points are (1) numbers and (2) letters. Why is that? For one thing, numbers and letters are both interactive and chronological and thus uphold a certain standard of progression...they give us a proper beginning, middle and end in movement itself. For another thing...technically speaking...the "points" are representative of "Nothing" (in the Taoist sense of the word) and this issue is hammered on over and over again throughout qabbalistic doctrines as well as in Greek gematria and numerology discussions.

That means that the only viable elemental assignment we could even properly assert would be Spirit itself...which...if we did that...would simply put us back at non-differentiated points.

Please don't pull it just because I have brought this up. This is important and we should look at it and think about everything going on here...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

If the elements are isomorphically equivalent
to the bigrams and the ordinal numbers,
why can't they be interchanged in yantras...?



The 9 Principal Bigrams
http://abrahadabra.com/images/elements03.gif

The 9 Principal Elements
http://abrahadabra.com/images/elements02.gif

[m1thr0s]

That's a good question. It's a difference of context. In the Lo Shu we are housing several things simultaneously...but they are not all the same thing. Our elements are based on Bigrams which we are justified in defining as elements because they are compound structures uniting a minimum of 2 flux values...heaven and earth. Their numbers are actually parallel and follow their own internal logic...since we are not assigning these properties to points, but to actual "turf", we can push the logic as far as elements...though it should be pointed out that even this is highly suspect from a traditional Chinese perspective who always began elements at Trigrams.

Nevertheless, they fail to justify this adequately in the final analysis and at least insofar as a western definition of the term is concerned, the bigrams do qualify as proper "elements". But chambers are not points...points are in a class by themselves.

edit: you have to bear in mind that Numbers are a Higher Order than Elements per se. As such they might represent any number of "things"...planets, colors...sounds...all kinds of things.

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

But Planetary Attributions to Sepheroth or Tetractyl Points are kosher?


1 - Neptune
2 - Uranus
3 - Saturn (feminine)
(-) - Saturn (masculine)
4 - Jupiter
5 - Mars
6 - Sol (sun)
7 - Venus
8 - Mercury
9 - Luna (moon)
10 - Earth

[m1thr0s]

Well...sort of Yes and sort of No. What happens in the Planets is that an attempt is made to assign a spiritual quality to Numbers by way of the Planets...so the Planets are not really "things" so much as Beings...Natures...Intelligences etc...

And this is where it gets tricky and I started out by saying it isn't an absolute thing but still needs qualifying. In fields we can get away with this more readily because fields all reduce cleanly to "0"...that's one of their main functions as a matter of fact (see the anti-meme discussion)...

Crowley tried to do the same thing with Trigrams that people have done with planets...but again he is assigning spiritual qualities to sepheroth points and not actual elemental constitutions...

edit: it's sort of a question of application...what are you going to do with these "things" once you have them all dressed up? What will be their function? Will they just sort of stand there looking cool? What is their technical purpose? This is when and where all this hair-splitting becomes more of a real live issue...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

I guess this distinction should be made:

I didn't actually 'fit' anything onto the Tetractys Points...

In working with the THC, I started with the 3 monograms,
the tridosha itself, and then began to fractally expand it into
the 9 bigrams, the 27 trigrams, the 81 tetragrams, etc...

The naturally-occurring, expanded fractal form of the
3 monograms of the THC is the Sierpinski triangle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierpinski_triangle)...

And if I choose any layer (bi, tri, tetra, etc...) it will accurately
represent the composite structure of the entire THC...

So by choosing the 9 bigrams I have the layer that is a
Tetractys while representing the entire THC in scalar form...

My instinct tells me that the joining of the TwinStar to this
unique manifestation of the Tetractys could be significant...
____________________________________

This strikingly similar arrangement had been suggested by Kain in the prequel thread:

Spirit
Moon Sun
Yoni Spirit Lingam
Water Earth Air Fire

[m1thr0s]

yes...I think so...from what I am understanding at least...always a matter of context. Otherwise we run into the difficulty that elemental combinations in themselves are HIGHLY argumentative...we can immediately propose several competing arrangements that will be difficult to dislodge...having no proper context to qualify things...

Numbers tend to be a little more exempt from this problem when they can be arranged according to some unique chronology, as happens in the TwinStar. Yet even here it is technically possible to arrive at at least a handful of alternative numerations...none of them demonstrating the combined strength of the TwinStar configuration...relative to the human form itself!

So this becomes our litmus test even against the numbers...there must always be some well defined context laid in or our arrangements lack any real purpose. Consider what Fu Xi has done himself in the establishing of the Trigrams...it might mean nothing at all if they did not align Heaven Above Earth Below Man at Center...He is building around the context of Man, seeking to account for all things in direct relationship to this context...hence their "relevance"...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

The Fractal/Tetractyl THC arrangement is consistent with this,
putting Yang/Heaven chronologically first or above, and
Yin/Earth last or below, with Jen/Man in the middle:

And the 'gender assignments' can correspond directly
with the 3 pillars of the Tree of Life as seen here:

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q48/MythMath/AscendingTrioUSEwith418ToLcopy.jpg

When I see all this layered together and ready to roll,
I'm reminded of things you've described liked this:

But it will take more than a Word alone to accomplish such a thing since we are dealing with Mind & Matter at the highest to the lowest rungs.

This "device" will have to be able to unify it all...
This means it must be very clear...not metaphorical and not especially "subjective"...
this will have to be an intensely "logical" device and it will have to be able to
directly impact space and time continuums in a very exacting sort of way.
It's something like a combination lock really, the way this whole thing stacks up.
We can't fake the combination...we either have it or we don't.
And if we don't, then no matter what we imagine or think, we'll still be at it until we do.
There is a good chance that part of the reason for this is that...on some level...we already know what it is.
It is no secret at the level of Supernal Mind for instance...
so our divided minds may not recognize it even though our atoms do...
m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

yes...and that is still correct. In the truest tantric tradition, there are two avenues of assertion (or *projection*) that have tended to yield the greatest results over time: the unification of wholes & the balancing of opposites. On the one side we approximate (or simulate) *Allness* while on the other *Nothingness* Either assertion, simulation, or emulation results in a type of *suspension* state, through which the resonance of the highest and subtlest rungs of energy and consciousness are more readily detected and ultimately *tapped*. In essence, these are both very ancient code-hacking techniques that allow the highest rungs of information to be freely & consciously accessed.

Beyond this we also need a means of integrating (or perhaps reintegrating) those highest rungs of energy & information throughout the entire Body of Light system. The alchemical *levity principle* informs us that all that is really required to produce a natural gravitation towards *ascension* is the suspension of obstacles, viewed as a kind of pollution condition. This has to occur at the level of Mind & Matter both, however, in order to be truly effective. But beyond this we also need a way to recreate ourselves according to the highest standards we can find. In this way, it is assumed that *right thinking* and *right action* are ultimately always the key to humankind's true *dharma*, or destiny.

In one sense, we are all on that path anyway...there is no other where for us to go but people are especially talented at becoming rutted, thus delaying the inevitable for as long as might be possible. People have a special affection for these rutted conditions and are not generally content to be rutted themselves but seek always to demand that others conform to the same arrested condition as themselves. So even though our task should not necessarily be such a complicated one...it becomes complicated when attempting to break pattern with the herd and throw our efforts in the direction of facilitating a non-rutted co-existence with Universe itself. And these are technical parameters, so we do have to get things right or else wind up with yet another rut.

m1thr0s

[Kuroyagi]

Hi MM, only some prima facie-(first glance) ramblings on figure2 the Mandelbrot stuff (is it called that?)

The first thing that I noticed about the image already was that you put the tai hsuan at the centre and thereby it relates to me the feeling of changing perspective and now looking from the top on a pyramid whereby the apex/the top of it now would be "centre" with its tai hsuan symbol, or maybe: we are looking from inside at the top above who knows?...the Mandelbrot stuff is actually mindblowingly complicated in this context cause basically: "triangles"= creation/establishing a sys-grid & circles= dissolution/consolidation...now if you make "looping"-circles in shapes of triangles that could really make ones mind explode...it could actually already pre-figure some of the insights we may have when applying the tai hsuan to the abra grid...(but Im still learning the basics here, too so cant say much..)

On the elemental symbols I'd agree with m1thr0s. They somehow disturb the smooth flow there, the best working ones on all such points outside and inside are in my view the - -- yin/yang and all its derivatives- they even work better than numbers and letters (edit: though "numbers" in the sense of a certian sequence are cool too- In the Western esoteric tradition- Pythagoras- numbers are of course "entities" each infinetly complex in itself, same is with letters who as representing "sound" are also very important to me)...but this may depend as so much on habit and experience, too. Its not useless to apply more complicated and "less permeable/transmutational" symbols-cause then they could be also used as a teaching map that is more explicative in nature..

[m1thr0s]

Its not useless to apply more complicated and "less permeable/transmutational" symbols-cause then they could be also used as a teaching map that is more explicative in nature..not useless at all...but it does require a certain ground rules to qualify our usage...

the problem only arises when we start asserting the "thing" representing the essence to be the actual essence. It's important to consciously recognize that the sepheroth points are first and foremost "emanations" of Nothing itself...

geomantic characters were a brilliant innovation even from the start since they are either numbers or letters in the truest sense of the term.

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

hi all

first, the work is beautiful to look at, which is its own type of truth

i don't have complete mastery of the technical material, but as a system, my instinct and training force me to raise a few points...

my first reaction after meditating on these grids is that is that we have a
Syncretic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretic)device rather than a synthetic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesis) model. what i mean by this is that we have a mapping out of correlation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation) but not corespondence. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correspondence) this could be an issue in that the synthetic is something altogether new, a higher unity, dialectic, the great work...do these figures take us someplace new or do they show us a variation of a construct.

this is a danger of any work grounded in fractals, the principle of self-similarity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-similarity)
a thing that continuously generates itself over and over again (some specific form) instead of generating some new form out of no-form.

again, i don't know if these criticisms are correct, but I think they are important to think about and mull over.

[Kuroyagi]

edit- m1: What does "geomantic characters" mean?

[fr.novumorganum]

http://www.princeton.edu/~ezb/geomancy/geostep.html

the most famous modern version is the golden dawn knowledge lecture.

[Kuroyagi]

Thanks for the link, fr., I'll try to bring it into relation with the topic here...I know the etymological mean-ing ;) of geomancy...we need to hurry with this we dont have to waste any time...! :)

[fr.novumorganum]

scroll through the page...

[m1thr0s]

this is a danger of any work grounded in fractals, the principle of self-similarity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-similarity)
a thing that continuously generates itself over and over again (some specific form) instead of generating some new form out of no-form.that's a very astute observation fr. novum...xst it's good to have intelligent people to talk to about all of this...yes, self-similarity is potentially our most dangerous pitfall...

But look at what is really occurring in application and consider the relationship of the I Ching to the Genetic Code in this as well...our structures are only "templates"...like letters in a language, but not the language itself. It has been my observation in creating hexagrammal fields that no two fields are ever exactly alike...it's not even possible to make them exactly alike from the standpoint of human application...

So in a very real sense we seem to be accommodating both things at once in this methodology...on the one hand we are adhering to a rigorous set of rules, involving structures that are mathematically fixed...a "closed" logic in themselves. But at the level of action we are indeed creating something from nothing every time we act and no two creations can ever be exactly the same...

So spontaneity and structure seem to find a perfect marriage in this whole thing just as skepticism and belief are also perfectly balanced and many other such polarities essential in the dance of life...

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

well, yes! it seems to me that what you are describing above is not just the unity of opposites but the unity of subject/object, the unity of phenomenology with ontology...which is really the awe-full (spelling on purpose) nature of looking at the twinstar. it almost seems a machine for creating the new out of the nebula behind daath...

sorry tangent there, but this is why I keep bringing up dialectics when talking about this system; the merging of subject/object to create something fundementally new is the core meaning of dialectis. dialectical materialism postits this as the very process of change (in the most true sense of that word). Sometimes it seems to me as if you've 'captured' or 'modeled' the very process/mechanism of change at some incredibly foundational level...

i know i promised to post some of my dialiectical ruminations, but dialectics is damn hard philosophy, and this is a hard system, and both are critically important...so i want to be careful that i get it right, or at least logically, before i post...the system deserves that...

what if you've stumbled on the real 'way of the dao' here...

[m1thr0s]

Sometimes it seems to me as if you've 'captured' or 'modeled' the very process/mechanism of change at some incredibly foundational level...time will tell...but then time happens to come under our microscope here as much as anything else...

I was always struck with Crowley's appraisal that Abrahadabra would ultimately reveal a form of meditation unlike anything the world had ever seen, yet recognizable in all respects as having been there all along...

That prediction hit me like a bolt of lightning straight from Heaven and it was on this impulse that I began my studies and have steered at all times in this general direction. I am as convinced today as I was then that this prediction is not an exaggeration and that the so-called "reward of Ra Hoor Khut" amounts to a technically comprehensive answering of the simple question "what are stars"?

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

addendum...you'd think that would make me a "thelemite" wouldn't you...:laugh:

life is full of little ironies...:eek:

in order to stay on task, I really can't afford to be any kind of "ite" at all...

and anyway...I'm pretty sure I hail from the Hermits, mainly...

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

he he

well what ever the problems that have ossified around the order, something really important came forward in that little book.

as you've said in other threads, crowley didn't always know what to do with what he found/recieved, but perdurabo sure did seem to have a nose for digging up gold.

anyway, what could be more WILLfull than a star?

[Kuroyagi]

fr. novum: sorry I just cross posted with you last time but didnt see your reply. I agree that its dangerous to make the components too much "endlessly looping" instead of more synergetic. This sys. has got that; I am also often surpirsed how much m1thr0s seems to be influenced by AC and when Im reading this or that by latter author under the light of some of the discoveries presented here. I often think: "Why didnt AC make that (next) step himself?": e.g. AC: "The Chinese have thus 64 principal symbols as against the 32 of the Tree; but the Qabbalists have a concatenation of symbols which is capable of very subtle interpretation and handling. It is also better fitted to describe the internal relations of its Elements..."

But thats easy if you are already in the know- seems easy "ex post"...actually thats a trademark of a good "next step" (invention)...

Thanks for the good convo both of you, K.

[m1thr0s]

I think if I had been attempting to assimilate this stuff from AC alone I would not have been able to do it...too may holes and internal inconsistencies. But it happens I had already been onto I Ching and Genetic info prior to having encountered AC's stuff so I was sort of primed to take his stuff to the next level...

In 1983 the Tai Hsuan Ching was published for the first time in English and that further cemented things since again, there were a lot of holes left unexplained and that closed almost everything up neat and clean...

Suddenly AC's own "trigrammaton" found some historical guidance, so again his artistic impulses were good even when his technical skills were not so good...

but yeah...it's a curiosity of its own kind. purely coincidental I think but still...we're sort of joined at the hip in a few (sometimes uncomfortable) ways...

to my way of thinking it all goes to support the idea that Liber Al was almost certainly a legitimate magickal *transmission* and not his usual sort of book. I believe that a lot of his continuing eastern gravitation was polarized by that event. I think he may have picked up certain insights that were not specifically spelled out at that time.

m1thr0s

[Kuroyagi]

Certainly I think so- and also I thought so about Spare, too, by the way. To some extent his not filling in "some" certain gaps was surely due to the lack of translations, then. But other things he "intuited". There really seem to be certain issues pertaining humanity itself that are rightly addressed, (here and)there. Again here- I dont know your/m1thr0s bio. But I have lived several years in Asian countries also studying the esoteric systems, and again much here checks out and is completely congruent with them...

Its also fascinating how the times have changed, how this internet medium is taking the place of other sorts of transmissions...I actually have been looking for certain people...I knew that there must be people around who created something in this departement...

[m1thr0s]

my bio? lol...it's a morbid piece-o-shit my friend...the original nobody born to violent dysfunction and left on the streets to die of neglect in my early teens...

nothing that would look good on your average book jacket that's for sure...

but it's really true, when you got nuthin, you got nuthin to lose, so I found myself homing in with a vengeance on certain key themes hyphenated by my "hippie" generation, which was really the only noble legacy left to me.

more than this is not worth reporting...

But I have lived several years in Asian countries also studying the esoteric systems, and again much here checks out and is completely congruent with them...I crave that kind of confirmation you know...I'm pretty good at what I do but I don't pretend to have all I need to connect everything...

I have said it before...sooner or later we need to stop playing this by the rules of isolation and form a more solid contingency platform...this ultimately requires the unique input from all points compass in my view...

It'll happen...by and by...as more people begin to see this work as an all-inclusive evolutionary development and not just something some *nobody* pulled out of his personal ass for his own personal gain etc...

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

one of things to keep in mind about this is that being born a *nobody* is very likely the only way one could manage to pull off a completely fresh perspective on certain very ancient issues. crap imprisons us, like it or not...people cannot resist defining themselves according to their stations...we see it all the time...what do you do? as if what you did for a living defined your practical worth...it's a fucking disease with human beings...they really just can't get past it for 10 minutes at a clip.

so this doesn't concern me...I was born with certain (potent) intellectual and intuitive gifts. I would have been hell to pay as a classical physicist or topologist or something but this wasn't meant to be. but I was definitely born to inhabit the "outside" perspective on just about everything...family, society, work, school, religion...all of it...part of my interest in satanism stems from this, but satanism itself is not the main thrust of my work in life...more like a little quickie on the side...

anyway...just a brief disclaimer since re-reading that thread it sounded a little too close to a boo-hoo story and that's not where I am coming from at all. There is a very keen intelligence at play in the way I have been positioned. If I had engineered it myself to afford a maximum possibility of success, I don't think I could have rigged it any better.

and as a matter of fact, there's a very good chance that I did just that. One cannot achieve an unexpected victory attacking from an expected quarter. That the world cannot define me clearly amounts to a supremely dangerous tactical advantage. So much so that I can declare my "law" in public, knowing full well that its greater impact will not fully settle in for many many years yet. By then I will have come and gone and they can piss up a goddamn rope for their fucking revenge. It is not theirs to spend.

m1thr0s

[Kuroyagi]

No it doesnt sound whiny or anything- if its true why not say it? And besides you didnt "boo-hoo" but on contrary said how advantageous your bio was to your development. (I merely meant that "I dont know whether youve been to Asia or not, or speak some of those languages so that you wouldnt need translations etc", but that doesnt seem to be the case as I supposed).

Yes, there are some lessons to be learned and some get them taught as a child or whatever and some have to break out and seek them out themselves; the rest maybe function under some "average" and distorted interpretations of those lessons, but never question their foundations. I know that outside stance (on society) of course: the endless urge by the participants "to define" a person and thereby to compare their status with their own etc., its to some extent understandable of course, I could write a philosophical treatise here about that lol, since its one of my "hobbies" to analyse such behaviour and design various reactions and try some of them out (normal sorcery/magick)...but generally speaking, I dont buy into the game, I also normally have better things to do...

[m1thr0s]

No...I have only been to asia astrally I think...and that many times, but not physically in this immediate go-round. probably won't be possible, although a friend of mine is convinced I should retire to Thailand...so who knows. The nice thing about astral travel though is you're not restricted to specific time frames and the savings in air-fare is tremendous as well...

Oh well, didn't mean to "over-share" as they say...probably no great harm done.

m1

[Kuroyagi]

Not at all! Actually I'm very interested in your bio, just didnt want to be indiscreet either; would you make a thread of your life's history I think I would not be the only one who would read it with great interest. If you, for example, had ("Native American") Indian "roots"- which could be possible judging from your one pic that you once posted- this would make you practically Asian, anyway.

Yes, I'm with you on astral travel- that saves money- especially on the interstellar flights. ;)

K.

[m1thr0s]

hey...you're good! mexican-indian apparently on my paternal grandmother's side...just a pinch though, maybe 1/8 or less. Don't know what tribe though...never met her and have no contact with father etc... It's my Don Juan connection...lol...

m1

[Kuroyagi]

lol, well actually Im still holding back too much- else Id have told you things like: that youre attracted to SE Asia (Thailand is one of the richest countries there) cause of your dragon ancestry or something...closeness to the Black Chaos Dragon...but you know that yourself anyway..;)