Research Chems and the elves

[fr.novumorganum]

Well, I prodded M1thr0s for a seperate forum, so I'll start the discussion here.


While many people are familiar with the more *traditional* devices (LSD, mushrooms, Peyote, Cannabis) and much research has been done in regards to the mystic uses of these substances, I'm intereseted in experiences with the emerging range of new psychadelics/empathogens generally grouped together under the name "research chemicals".

This group of elixirs has recently burst upon the scene, and the family of compounds continues to expand.
Shulgin's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Shulgin work is the driving force behind the discovery of these "RC's".

I'm interested in discussing spiritual explorations of these chems.

[Amur]

2C-I gave me the direct ability to memorize everything which had happened to me in this life. It happened instantly by re-experiencing the memory I tuned myself into. It didn't happen in the mind, it happened through the now. I believe that the same can be mastered when sober.

5-meo-DMT is perhaps a naturally occuring substance in the pineal gland. Atleast one time when activating the 'physical crown' my pineal gland felt the same as a dose of 5-meo-dmt. It emitted a light which was physical in nature but yet a bit off the physical. Certainly measurable by hard-science. 5-meo-dmt also gives a good initiation into 'void' itself. Though nowadays when I ingest 5-meo-dmt, I get a direct contact with God-Allmighty, who is quite pissed off at me. Ugh. Not easy being an amur :( It literally floods the body with the inner-spiritual light. Some say that it is the chemical which is metabolized at the point of death. Which in turn could perhaps explain NDEs. Unfortunately the drug-enforcement ppl has forced down the online sites where 5-meo-dmt was gotten from so. Though the quickest way to 5-meo-dmt metabolization is to stay inside pitch-black darkness for more than 10 days. Certainly safer and mellower than when taking it.

5-meo-DIPT for me was one of the key substances to trigger on somekind of empathic connection to everyone. Unfortunately I haven't found a way to 'descend' from this state, which means that it is on all the "#¤"&% time wherever I am. Definately tied to seeing ppls intentions heh.

TMA-2 + 5-meo-dipt + something else triggered somekind of full-blown astral place where we could read each others thoughts and emotions. Unfortunately due to my own nature the others were afraid of me. We we're 4 in a place but unfortunately 2 left which in turn triggered quite a bad descending from the place. In my own experience one should stay through the critical time period in the same place to descend from the high-astral place. Messes something up otherwise I believe. Like creating a group consciousness which is left on when the group dissolves. Actually I haven't tripped with normal people since 2 or more of these experiences happened where the other people started freaking about me.

Generally I feel now that I should ingest more often, as it would reset my lightbody to what it is instead of this messed up pile of a slush.

At times I notice that I have only ingested a substance to peak enough to some level which in turn is synchronized with a bigger spiritual/material/universal cycle/event. If you feel the pull, why not try it sometime.

[fr.novumorganum]

oh, i've had lots of experience with psychadelics...just looking to share discussions. thanks for sharing your experience.

[Amur]

Were in the mood to share those experiences :)

I believe still that whatever can be experienced under the influence of something can be experienced also sober. I believe my mind is working on it all the time to shift through ones inner so that it can adapt a shape which one wants to take. In a sense I believe in Shulgin's approach to this and as an approach to understand mind and consciousness from another viewpoint. Looking at Shulgin's lacking health problems in both physical and mental, one can only conclude that these chemicals aren't as dangerous as the public has got them to be. Certainly harmful effects cannot be neglected completely.

What kind of spiritual explorations are you interested in exploring? Thank you for the idea. Got a new profession which I obviously need to fill up :D

All those that were listed are labelled under the RC-chem category except TMA-2 which is synthetic mescaline.

The most interesting aspect with 5-meo-dmt is the void feeling that came from it before. When experiencing it before being awakened, it was just a void, but now it is more like a spiritual light. Not sure why.

[sock]

Thought I'd chime in and contribute...

From the off, drugs I've taken were not originally intended to reveal or induce moments of pure clarity or a mystical variety; they were taken to experience a sub-culture I was interested in. In many ways, the underground thinking of various dance orientated sub-cultures correspond to what we might call magical thinking, and I want to tell you about the single most important thing I realised in that time and why it corresponds to magical thinking.

Drugs such as xtc introduced the conscious, active part of my-self to the structure beneath, introduced to me the link between breathing, muscle control and the subsequent emotional contract that exists between those simple things.

Mushrooms (liberty caps) introduced me to my 'inner world' and I'm one of those people who believe that mushroom intoxication lies at the root or near the root of the Western Mystery Tradition. It's quite something to actually visualise platonic solids, just as it's quite something to be shown the intrinsic simplicity that lies behind ideas we seem to take for granted.

For example, I was shown that to truly understand something, you must break it down into it's smallest understandable parts - sounds simple enough but when you begin to apply this idea to the world we live in and how we are where we are, holes begin to appear; things we assume are just that; assumptions.

It's a simple action built upon infinitely with more simple actions be they ideas or objective 'things' that defines the ultimate outcome of something as true or false or even a fusion of those states (trualse), and you realise that just because someone says 'this is so because of x,y or z' that if you are prepared to examine how it was in the first place the ‘x,y or z’ came to be defined at all that you have the basis for inquiry.

Something I haven't tried and at this stage in my life I'm not sure I want to submit my mind to such a torrid experience would be Salvia, and that would be purely to experience disconnection between my physical body and my consciousness. For example, it is quite possible for one to believe one has become a chair leg and experience consciousness from that perspective - perhaps a 'silly' example, but the idea is there, to experience disconnected consciousness.

I think that that's the difference between people who read about magical things and view them, and people that 'do', be it meditation or ingesting a drug that will alter their consciousness. One is observing, the other is direct experience, which as we generally know will of it's own accord induce different types of thinking and perhaps guide us to quite different conclusions.

Just my 0.02$ - sock.

[m1thr0s]

I've only really dealt very much with hallucinogens, and nowhere near as much as I would have liked to in point of fact. My systems are really strong and it is possible for me to "blow out" a lot of stuff just on the strength of those engines. But every now and then something comes along sufficient to take a spin on...and I have virtually always derived some benefit from this...sometimes small...sometimes really big.

I don't generally discuss it much but the use of neurotransmitters is something I endorse when approached with intelligence and purpose. Some are adamantly opposed to this yet I have never been able to make much of their various arguments. Something about Purety of Essence I think...POE, EOP, OPE...one of those Strangelove variations. Mostly a load of crap from my perspective, though I admit that there are many ways to go about attacking higher states of consciousness. Any fool could tell you that I think. What startles me is the stark prudishness of those who are opposed to the use of "drugs"...

And therein lies a problem of its own making, since the word "drugs" in itself is a loaded term that should ought not be allowed in any serious discussion of this kind. It's a catch-all term designed to lump all manner of drug-abuse together under one loathesome banner and thus dispense with the issue once and for all. But life is not a one-size-fits-all affair, and it amuses me that I can be accepting of others who will not take "drugs" and are frankly braindead as a result, at least from my perspective...having nothing of value to offer me in terms of knowledge that I have not typically known for many years...yet they can only very rarely extend the same courtesy to me who can very often blow them right out with knowledge they have not even once considered.

A good chunk of that knowledge was, in fact, observed first hand to begin with and only later honed and sharpened to come into good compliance with analytically sound logistics. I cannot therefor in good conscience turn my back on the very same well I might draw from and draw powerful and useful knowledge surpassing the wisdom of some of the best known minds in history. At the same time, there is certainly such a thing as "drug-abuse" as I am quite certain we are all aware. Most of that is a social issue that has more to do with the structure of society than the character of the drugs in question.

m1thr0s

[motsie]

A friend of mine refers to dmt as "the keys to God's car". I personally was uncomfortable with the degree of separation dmt induced between my conscious identity and my perceiving self. I felt very adrift and unconnected.

I think that my discomfort had to do with the way I structure past knowledge and current identity. For some reason known only to my oversoul, I shield myself from direct experience of past memory and the dmt was rattling the gate to the forbidden. Others with me experienced similar deconstruction of their mental partitions and they were pleased with these results.

I have tried other experimental drugs and have experienced similar, but not as extreme results. I am very aware of having ingested a chemical when doing these sorts of drugs. I have no problem with LSD or plant based compounds. I think that dmt affects an area of my paradigm that I prefer to be set on default.

[m1thr0s]

sometimes it's s good thing to have your comfort zones disrupted, other times it's just a waste of time and energy. I guess that's something people have to sort out for themselves. I have never had much trouble with separation since it always seems to come back together at another level...save only in those instances where I have been in an uncomfortable social situation. Leary used to go on and on about the importance of "set & setting" and I think he is right about all of that. Your environment is important. If it's working against you in a heightened state energy awareness, it can only be super-unpleasant...

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

There is no doubt that setting (Leary's old set and setting) is as important in psychadelic work as it is in ritual--at least in the early stages of ritual work in which the temple/altar design etc is part and parcel of inducing an altered state of consciousness and directing that consciousness in a certain direction- ie towards mars. To me, this homologous relationship is one of the really interesting correlations between tripping and ritual.
I also find the evolution of these substances interesting. While LSD and Shrooms are basically like atom bombs in the mind, the newer substances Shulgin is developing/discovering are far more specific in the areas of the brain the affect and in the effects they produce. LSD might be needed to overwhelm the locked mind and open the doors of chapel perilous, but once those doors are open, the more directed RC's might be more effective at producing directed results. (Compare a 2cB/2cE trip to LSD...)
I find the model that holds that these are spirit molocules and they are attempting to communicate with us/direct our evolution useful at times. We are all familair with the RAW/Pinchbeck/McKenna sense, but there is also some occult work being done in which the molecular/atomic structure of these substances is used as a sigil just as if they were an angel or spirit...

[Amur]

I must also conclude that the Molecules have their own design and intelligence all in themselves. But didn't come up with the communicating thing, but thought about their form of intelligence as something which isn't as multidimensional as that of a plant. The plant is more alive and has much more depth in it, while the molecule substance has somewhat more flat/linear intelligence involved, which can be quite the benefit in many areas.

[Frater CaO]

Ive had the chance to try alot of different R.C's. But Ive only actually tried 4-ho-dipt (same as 4-acetoxy-dipt). of all the Psychedelics Ive tried so far, this is the one with most Speed. The feeling alone made one, of my 2 friend I was with at the time, climb out the window to the balcony (second floor) jump down in the snow below, jump a fence that was atleast 2meters high, and then ran home through the woods, over the highway, to his room where he stayed until 3 in the morning with an Axe, sitting on the bed until he passed out.
Man, that was an experience. The thing was, before he freaked out totally, I experience we shared the same Consciousness, but it "jumped", so first I made a sound, then my other friend, and last my second friend, and then back to me. But what I thought, or Felt, actually Influenced my friends. So somehow, It felt like it was my fault he freaked, because I Thought that he Would. And so he did..
It was a really wierd experience.. I heard he did some similiar window-jumping a few years later again.. he really shouldnt be doing drugs at all...
Id love to try some more R.C's though, unfortunately theyve been real hard to get since the state finally made them illegal, which they werent for quite some time. I even had like 30 microtabs of those left, well hid in the bottom of a can of oilpaint when the police came with a dog and everything. they couldnt find it :)
Btw, dont try 2C-E up your nose, it hurts more than anything, and it doesnt Numb your nose like Coke either, it just hurts like a bitch ;)

[Naomi]

I threw half of my wardrobe and most of my bedroom furniture out of a two story window last year and I didn't need any drugs at all....

Just an intensive sense of reality....

I had fun. I think the violent stuff comes from not purging that through exercises like Chod...but what your friend did wasn't very violent, it was merely strange.

[m1thr0s]

I guess I really don't know what R.C.'s even means...that's how out of the loop I am these days...

I've seen people spook on various things, including a few things I would have personally considered harmless. Watched a friend who was always acting cooler than everybody else have a major jesus-freak meltdown that pretty much never really resolved itself. Watched another guy jump through a plate glass window because he got the idea he was trapped in a house surrounded by demons (me and a few others he actually knew pretty well). Another guy also went through a plate glass window at the hospital he had been taken to after being picked up running through the streets naked in sub-freezing weather...

What's the deal with hallucinogens and glass? When psychedelic folks freak out they jump through glass...when speed heads freak out they go for the gun...

I think it's too bad that most of our cultures don't make any allowance for spiritual-crisis episodes...many of which might have turned out just fine if the surrounding culture knew how to take it in stride better. But we are programmed to freak out just because somebody else is freaking out, even though they may have a perfectly good excuse and may just be going through some kind of initiatory experience.

That's what happens when you abandon your elders and/or they themselves abandon wisdom...we've lost that funky grandpa point of view on things...

m1

[Frater CaO]

Naomi, No he wasnt very violent, he was just scared shitless. He was looking through his pockets and surroundings for any sharp object to defend himself with. I know cause I could literally Read his Thoughs, or we shared our thoughts or maybe I was the driving influence behind the whole thing Im not sure... I went to the bathroom, when I got back he was all worked up.
Apparently someone called friend number 1 on his cell (big misstake keeping the phones on) and he told the caller that he Couldnt Come.. I didnt know this call had happened and since we were allready so far into the trip it took a while to actually figure out that there had even been a call...
He was convinced somebody was coming to get him, he asked why we where doing it to him and if we wanted money from him or what we wanted.. and me and my friend were allready so far ahead in our trip we couldnt calm him, half the time we just laughed him in the face cause it was all so absurd.. that didnt really help but we couldnt help ourselves, let alone help him.. then he really lost it when I went out of the room to get my friends younger brother who fortunately was sober. But I knew what was coming as I went out of the room.. and then I heard the noises when he climbed out the window. :/
Fortunately he didnt jump straight through it like other people I know have been known to do.. several times. ;)
One guy thought some entity jumped inside him and took control so he jumped straight through the window in the middle of the winter, he was running around bleeding in his underwear in the cold snow for hours..

m1, Research Chemicals ;) It can include anything really, from speed like substances to hardcore hallucinogens and everything inbetween.
And I dont know about the glass thing either... its just so wierd.
My cousin actually freaked out on Cannabis, it triggered a severe depression and psychosis.. but Im not sure I believe in psychosis anyhow, its just a medical term and I dont like medical terms when It comes to the psyche.
Wish I would have had a chance to talk to him before the freaking government got their hands on him, now hes on several medications and its been years since it happened :/

[Amur]

Hmm, I think 5-meo-dmt hurts the most up the nose. That pain is crazy :D Feels like the whole nose burns up hehe. Might or might not pick up a bachelor degree in chemistry, would be interesting to test all those drugs lol (which would really be one of the reasons to pick it up in the first place lol). But we shall see where life takes me :)

Getting more and more fond of mushrooms, and ayahuasca is also very good for cleansing. Would be interesting to try pharmahuasca (maoi + dmt), but a bit hard to come by. But nevertheless very interesting.

[Frater CaO]

Amur, I never tried 2c-e up the nose myself, but 4 or 5 of my friends were crying like little babies when they did ;)
That would be awsome :D Shrooms are nice ;) Havent had the chance to try ayahuasca yet unfortunately :( Im going to try to order some, gotta order me some peyotes too, nice to cultivate them, give them some love as they grow up and mature ;)

[Amur]

Amur, I never tried 2c-e up the nose myself, but 4 or 5 of my friends were crying like little babies when they did ;)
That would be awsome :D Shrooms are nice ;) Havent had the chance to try ayahuasca yet unfortunately :( Im going to try to order some, gotta order me some peyotes too, nice to cultivate them, give them some love as they grow up and mature ;)

You should try ayahuasca, though do it with respect, it's a very powerful soul-purifier and takes even the darkest areas of the psyche up to the consicousness to process, which is quite nice afterwards, but can be quite hellish when on the trip (depending on how much dark areas of the psyche there are). But I promise that the next day will be wonderful and purified.

Peyote would be nice to test, never tried it really (but synthetic mescaline, which was quite fun actually). But would be nice to test hehe.

[Frater CaO]

Amur,
Yes, all psychedelics, even the ones that isnt as hallucinogenic as the stronger ones should be treated with proper respect, like cannabis for example.
Amphetamine and Cannabis can be really psychedelic in a special way, especially when youve been awake for atleast 2 days or more and then start smoking cannabis heavily. Allthough it isnt something that I personally would recomend, many people spin out of control really fast unfortunately.
Psychedelics is real good in that way, that it makes you counscious of the "dark" parts of the psyche, and force you to experience it wether you want it or not. I think that it is life important to explore those parts of the psyche, thats why psychedelics can be so life changing for many people, even without the "dark" trips.
Personally, Cannabis has been the psychedelic that has helped me most, atleast until now, but I think its about time to bring out the darkest parts, perhaps Ayahuasca is what I need then.
I tried to get my hands on some synthetic mescaline when it was available around here but I didnt have any success in getting any unfortunately.

[Amur]

I remember taking 2C-I to my amphetamine downer and went on a trip for 3 days, was quite cosmical (as there was a GRB burst that synchronized with Me from billions of light-years away). Seems that I ingested this whole gamma-ray burst into myself and got a shitloads of energy from it hehe. The funnier thing is that it happened close to 30.03.03, quite the cosmic date :D

Anyway, I would recommend ayahuasca + power songs for internal cleansing, seems like ayahuasca and singing goes very well hand in hand and it is possible to heal on many levels while using it and singing (it's very powerful to sing while on ayahuasca). But the stomach twisting is insane due to the harmala and DMT and it literally feels like one is purging (vomiting) from the depths of one's soul and the sins are being vomited out, which is very horrible but in the end it is quite nice :D Though everyone has their own personal effect to the substances so.. But I really recommend it if you can order it from somewhere.

Ahh you live in sweden. I'm from Finland myself. Perhaps I'll come over and visit you sometime. I'm actually a finnish-swedish so my native language is swedish (with a heavy finnish accent :laugh:) If you come over to Finland gimme a call or something...

[Frater CaO]

Amur,
That 2C-I + speed trip sounds intruiging :D
From what you say and what I allready know, Ayahuasca is a certain experiment that is bound to happen sometime, hopefully sooner than later ;)

Yeah the only thing that makes me Swedish is that I grew up here and have citizenship, and speak swedish. :P My parents are both finnish but I never really learned to speak finnish unfortunately. I understand it ok but cant speak that much myself :)
Hehehe yeah Im sure the future holds a visit :) I dont think any of us here at Abrahadabra synchronized randomly ;)

[Amur]

Amur,

Hehehe yeah Im sure the future holds a visit :) I dont think any of us here at Abrahadabra synchronized randomly ;)

Yay, I'm looking forward to it. For some reason it feels like I'm all alone in this country as I haven't really met any people interested in the workings of the psyche and the mind and certainly no occultists anywhre :laugh: Though I did meet one freemason but lost contact with him unfortunately as it would've been nice to be in contact with him.

Hmm, remember trying that speed + cannabis when it starts coming down and it was quite wild combination. Alot of weird fractal patterns and what not, though it didn't really feel so healthy for the body and mind so I didn't really do it many times. Though did sometimes with ecstacy + cannabis and it was also quite crazy and was certainly not healthy(so I really regret that I even did those few times it ).

[Frater CaO]

Ive been isolating myself more and more the last few years, the crowd I used to hang around with has more or less become weak and helpless addicts today.
Dont want nothing to do with them anymore, theyll wither away and die eventually.
The only occultist I have met myself is the one person who introduced me to the Book of the Law about 5 years ago, I think hes doing 4 years in jail now but Im not sure :D

Speed + Cannabis can be really groovy :D After youve been awake for 3 days, and then start coming down, thats when you need a big bong and a hell of alot of Cannabis. You get totally introverted and more or less loose speech-control so everything you say is just noises and grunts and stuff ;) Thats when the serious trip begins, OEV's & CEV's and your mind is all mushy from exhaustion.
Ecstasy + Cannabis is also a nice combination. Allthough Ecstasy sucks since you never know whats in the damn pills, can be anything and most of the time its mostly just speed in them anyway. Pure MDMA or any of the MDxx is to prefer. The problem with X is that it depletes your serotonine at the first day of intake, so you cant use it for several days without seriously compromising your brains health.
Speed on the other hand depletes your Dopamine rather quickly, but the speed acts as a substitute for the Dopamine when youre out of it. With X your brain can accidentally start picking up Dopamine and put where the Serotonine is supposed to be, and then you got a serious problem.
Speed alone doesnt function this way, this is why I prefer as pure speed as possible instead of dirty and disgusting X.
The more days youre awake on speed, the more intense the experience get when youre on your way down and start smoking. If your up a day you get fractals etc. when youve been up for a week you get some serious hallucinations and to distinguish reality from hallucination becomes completely impossible. Thats why many people freak out and get totally spun. But its all in your head, nothing to fear, not in this life or the next ;)

[Frater CaO]

Btw, there is a really nice image of Alex & Ann Shulgin in my Zoints photo album, its from erowid.org so some of you might have seen it allready.
I recommend checking out Thikal & Phikal which can both be accessed through erowid's library. Really good to read their reports on different RC's before you try them out :)