How to study Abrahadabra and Mutational Alchemy

[Naomi]

I found my handwritten old guide to studying for people who have been really trying to grasp the principles of mutational alchemy but haven't had a very good time with it. I know that the subject is often difficult to comprehend, but this does not mean one cannot tackle it as well as any other subject. If you've taken college classes this should be no more difficult, and the information contained in the posts will make more sense and be much more valuable to you after you learn to comprehend it.

The first thing you need to do is preview the text. Scan over it quickly, noting what the article covers.

Make a mental outline or summary of the core topics being addressed. As you do so, allow your mind to form questions about the words and subject matter.

Then read the text.

If you have Open Office or Word, underline key phrases and passages that seem to summarize the ongoing discussion.

Returning to your questions you formulated in the preview, answer them - that is, extrapolate the answers from the text.

If you are not familiar with Mutational Alchemy, you should keep Wikipedia and a dictionary handy - there are many free ones available online, hard copies are usually better, unless you have the Microsoft 2003 Word version, I like that one very much.

After reading, read some of the article aloud, especially the parts that seemed intriguing to you.

It's important to review and read again within 24 hours. This allows your mind to digest what has already been read. Then review it again within a week.

I am sure this will aid almost anyone in at least grasping the very basics of mutational alchemy once and for all.

If you are having tremendous difficulty, you can also try these techniques:


Read it again. (and again - I did this)

Look for essential words. "I Ching", "Trigram", "Mutational Alchemy" and "Binary" are a few

Hold a minireview - just scan over one small part of the text and try to manage that.

Talk it over with others - explain what you don't understand. Try not to get too nitpicky. Usually the answers are in the text so don't just start asking all kinds of easily answerable questions.

Stand up and read it. (it works)

Skip around the text, instead of reading straight through.

Find a tutor - obviously Ningishzidda himself doesn't have time to come down and explain everything bit by bit. But you can ask other people around through pm when you don't understand something.

READ RELATED MATERIAL. (The I Ching, Classical Chinese Taoism and the Bhagavad Gita all address some of the topics Mutational Alchemy coagulates into one smooth mixture)

Pretend you understand, then explain it, sometimes this can jar our mind into unexpected answers.

Ask yourself "What the hell is going on here?" if you don't understand something. Penetrate to the core of the mystery, and don't be afraid of it.

Stop reading and take a break for coffee/water/food etc.

Note Taking:


Use a pen and a notepad, and take notes. Get into it. Learning mutational alchemy isn't different from any other college course.

Stay focused.

Think critically about what you are reading.

Watch for repetition and words or phrases that are transitory, concluding, or introductory.

Use pictures to help correlate words with actuality.

Keep your thoughts seperate from your notes, record only what is in the text and in the teacher's data and not your own opinions. (I'm not saying you shouldn't have your own opinions, on the contrary, you should, but it helps to get to the gist of the matter when we arn't mixing our own thoughts up with the core elements of mutational alchemy)

Label and date your notes.

Use different colors and signals so you can wade through your notes later more easily.

Leave blank space in case you need to add something to a particular section later.

When you review your notes, fill in keywords and edit them according to your accumulated learning.



references:

Becoming a Master Student by David Ellis

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

All great learning habits Naomi!

[m1thr0s]

Ask yourself "What the hell is going on here?" if you don't understand something. Penetrate to the core of the mystery, and don't be afraid of it.quite so - unlike many schools of magick and mysticism, everything presented in mutational alchemy doctrine is expected to be able to withstand the severest form of logical scrutiny. So if you don't ask the pressing questions, you can't really benefit from its real strengths and advantages. It is also very nearly impossible with anything so vast in its implications to anticipate every type of question that might arise in the minds of others. So asking questions, and answering them (on your own initiative)...or else taking advantage of being able to ask questions either publicly or privately (of someone in the know) is a key factor in achieving conceptual breakthroughs of your own, for purposes of your own...since I have no doubt that a tech like this might impact thousands upon thousands of forms - far beyond anything I might ever be able to exhaust all by myself.

It puzzles me sometimes that people don't ask more questions than they do, but I place no judgment upon this...I just don't altogether understand it. At some point I will no longer be available to clear things up that I might once have cleared up fairly easily had somebody asked the question to begin with. I also may not have the exact answer to every question, but I do have a lot of experience in this particular area so should almost always be able to provide partial answers at the very least.

afterthought...maybe there just doesn't seem to be any proper place to ask what may seem to be *random* sorts of questions. that's easy enough to fix...just hadn't occurred to me until now...

ok...I've set this up, just in case it helps: Mutational Alchemy - Questions & Answers... (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=2379)

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Alright, well, this was just a general outline. It occurred to me today that some people actually don't know how to study.

I had a sort of tragic phone call from a LD friend today and he mentioned he felt completely stupid studying it and like he could never grasp the concepts, which is just a true perception of how intimidating the system is.

edit: oh thanks for the question thread, that's a great idea.

Well here's a list of a master student characteristics, too, taken from somewhere in my old notes...

Inquisitive

Able to focus attention

Willing to Change

Able to organize and sort

Competent

Joyful

Able to suspend judgement

Energetic

Well

Self-aware

Responsible

Willing to take risks

Willing to Participate

A generalist

Willing to acept paradox

Courageous

Self directed

Spontaneous

Relaxed about learning

Intuitive

Creative

Willing to be Uncomfortable

Accepting

Willing to laugh

Willing to work

Caring

Finds joy in discovery

[Radiant Star]

Absolutely wonderful study notes Naomi :D

I have tons of it too, but more based on the SQ3R system, easily googleable I think.

Anyone could probably add meditate on parts it too and see what comes up.

[Anibis]

Not to mention what's known as 'the Art of Memory'. There are several ways of doing it, some more, and some less technological, but the basic idea is that you build imaginary 'Loci'. WHen you encounter an idea you wish to remember, you 'imprint it' onto the 'locus'. THis could be an imaginary room, or house, or grove or whatever. Or it could be an abstract figure like the Tree of life or the I Ching. Once you have memorized the basic stucture it become much easier to remember other stuff. Also it's easier to memorize through using combinations of strong and unique images than it is just to repeat stuff. After a few years you will have a remarkable storehouse of ideas, as well as an inate ability to place new ideas almost as soon as you encounter or invent them.
-Anibis

[Kuroyagi]

It puzzles me sometimes that people don't ask more questions than they do, but I place no judgment upon this...I just don't altogether understand it.I think the main reason for this is that you are relatively far ahead with that yourself. You have presented various topics and results of -as you once said yourself IIRC- over 30 years of your studies so that they are very condensed and contain enough material and side-tracks, like "to familiarize oneself with the I Ching etc." that I am kept busy for a long time before I even will see the need to ask any more questions- and IF I will it could well be that they will profit you as much as me- and not in the sense of polishing up your didactic methods but to inspire you for something new, too. Thats only my own take on this though- and I must admit that Im a very reclusive student who doesnt want to bother anyone overly much (still I of all people am one of those who asked -relatively speaking- many q's here, still).

Another reason is that- as far as I can see- nearly no one is studying this. One big reason is always the "reluctance to approach revolutionary novelty/something unconventional". See, people have invested much time in learning ACs system or Tolkiens novels and are "experts" in those fields and will be too lazy to begin anything new (not that they also work those sys. or anything- Im talking about mere unrefioned knowledge only ;)). This doesnt maybe pertain to the people here on this site but also in the scientific community and even moreso in occultism there are many of them...cause established experts have something to lose or at least have settled into their life to some extent. This also touches on the question of whether a normally "happy" person w. a job wife and some social standing would even be tempted to change his ways at all (this leads too far here of course)...

Yet another thing is that there are slightly different interests and approaches invloved even with those (like me) who have looked a bit into the system. In my case its a mixture between "not knowing enough yet" and "not putting the emphasis on techniques and points of interest in the way others do it here". Also there are many breaks involved. Times when one is reluctant or lazy or focused on other things. I think that in such cases "one is not ready yet for certain things" and then after sometimes a long while some kind of dam suddenly breaks. The important thing is to have "tuned in to this field" at all, as Sheldrake would probably say it ;), and thereby be able to let it ripen also unconsciously while yet doing other things.

I have tried to introduce e.g. darkwater into the system by recommending to him my approach- by at first reading or closely studying- the 3 articles on Mutational Alchemy Essential (of which one is the Twin Star Meditation), its not that "much" (content-wise) to learn from my viewpoint, but I couldnt say whether he has done anything or not. All of this is "not much" but somehow endlessly "too much"- a question of perspective as Naomi has put it. At first one has to be able to "switch off large parts of awareness towards ones own ignorance" so to not become too discouraged. Maybe, some kind of magical/philosophical consciousness and a degree of flexibility is needed as well as some basic skills of comprehension and intellectual expertise.

p.s. I'll append this post by me here:
[..]The abra sys for a starter is maybe to be approached directly (since you are already knowledgable about the basics I guess...more than me maybe)...maybe look at the 3 mutational alchemy threads starting here: http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=711 (http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=711) and then also 002, 003...the last one 003 is the most important in my view: http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=781 (http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=781) very much is based on that. the Twinstar meditation...you neednt know or learn that all at once but maybe read it closely and practice or imagine some of it as you please....then maybe check some of the articles on the main page here: http://www.abrahadabra.com/tableofcontents.htm (http://www.abrahadabra.com/tableofcontents.htm)...in my case all this stuff inspired me to look further into the components themselves, like I Ching hexagramms, or TOL basics (but maybe you know some of them better already)....and then the Tai Hsuan Ching, this is actually the most promising aspect, since its practically unknown territory in connection with the grid, this pretty fascinating. The "martial arts" aspect we mentioned is also kick ass for sure but thats somehow only a "bonus", as cool as it is. well, for me it is- the focus is on cognition and creation of something utterly new ([the fact] that it is also is a good "atomic shredder" to that NO entitiy can stand up to is also a good asides of course...) have fun there[...]

[m1thr0s]

I sometimes think nobody would have paid any attention to einstein if his theories hadn't led to the atomic bomb...

perhaps I need to steer more into the bomb business then...it's a little trickier than his bomb...this bomb attacks other bombs, leaving organisms largely intact...kind of an inverse neutron bomb I suppose...

It often works this way though so I can't say it surprises or even bothers me all that much...it's all just sort of part of the package with exploratory science/meta-science of any kind. As people begin to find practical applications things begin to heat up and not a whole lot before that.

more recently I begin to think I should have just stuck with images as I had always intended...it's too soon for the words. I may ultimately return to this...I really hate *teaching* and I'm not especially good at it. Talisman Art rocks...who gives a shit if people get it or not...if they need to get it, they will.

m1thr0s

[Kuroyagi]

I think you're right there. Because you are very lucid/understandable anyway, IMO. Still that shouldnt be an excuse to let ones standards drop or anything, but maybe just rush ahead as far as one can and dare.

Yeah at first only Einstein's "colleagues" recognized the scope of his discoveries and funnily had to partly convince even himself of their truth, but this ought to be different in this case: Here I would think that the "integrity" of the scientist becomes part of the efficiency of the technique itself, since its changing and partly re-arranging and constituting him from core.

That bomb may yet shake the universe.

:cool:

[m1thr0s]

that's the whole thing K - the words slow me down...w-a-y-d-o-w-n... and in the end I get the distinct impression I'm putting everybody to fucking sleep...

not the best investment in time and energy...my images wake them up but my words put them to fucking sleep?

fuck that shit...I'd rather be working the images anyway!

So that needs to be considered at length...plus...you can always combine words and images anyway.

The thing is...it is often more useful to raise the proper questions than to deliver the freaking answers...artists know this...it's what they do...I'm no fucking prophet and my science training is crap...at the end of the day I'm an occult artist I think. People aren't stupid but they will often pretend to be stupid so long as one misguided nitwit is pretending to be smart.

I think I need to pull the godamm words...it's no skin off of my nose and would likely put my work in the black for a change.

m1

[fr.novumorganum]

I've got to add, anytime I've introduced anyone to the system, it has always been with the injunction to DO IT. Don't wait till you understand every bit of theory or track down every historical clue, or calculate every bit of math. If you wait for that you'll never set off the star-bomb inside you:rainbow:

Magick always teaches those who work at it---the best way to get to know the system is to put it into practice. Add the core meditations to your daily work. You'll be amazed at how fast things start to make sense.

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/977087/2/istockphoto_977087_bomb_demon.jpg

[m1thr0s]

ditto that. so much of what I have wanted to convey is an excitement surrounding action...and I think I need a new approach. I don't have all the answers anyway and the bizarre thing is that after 30+ years of working with this stuff...I don't actually need them! Not really...I know they are there when the time really becomes urgent. I know this because of action...because I have seen this thing in action for many many years and have been repeatedly blown away at the stuff it does...things I couldn't even begin to describe...the speed at which it travels...the force of its punch...the precision with which it strikes...the delicacy with which it handles highly sensitive situations...the magnitudes it considers *comfortable*...all revealed in action and a thousand thousand times more than this...

I begin to think you just can't put any of it into words...

not really...

anyway...I think I'm taking this off-topic...I'll just shut the hell up for awhile...

m1thr0s

[Kuroyagi]

The thing is...it is often more useful to raise the proper questions than to deliver the freaking answers...
The Tao in a nutshell...

(Tao meaning "how" ;), a way and not a why or an "explanation"; but yes, also an explanation of a higher level).

Good topic btw; Naomi is inspirational I think. She probably knows that only from the below you can hint at and eventually conquer your highest aspirations.

[Anibis]

I feel I should pipe in right now and say that I hope you do actually keep the words associated with the images. They are quite helpful, and always have been for me. I know what you mean, and yet cannot help but think that you actually are a rather fantastic wordsmith as well as a fine teacher. Anyhow, that'd be my input should you be planning to pull your comentaries from the Book of Mirrors. I am playing counterweight at the moment.
-Anibis

[fr.novumorganum]

yeah, give us a warning if you do pull the text....

[m1thr0s]

Just sounding out thoughts gang...I wouldn't do anything drastic without giving everybody time to acclimate...

thanks for your thoughts...didn't mean to steer this one quite this way...just sort of fell out I guess.

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

Bullshit, m1thr0s... :mad:

You've succeeded...!
____________________

This thing has built up steam...

We're all strapped in...

And it's about to take off...!
__________________________

You have a commited cadre of future teachers
enrolled here at abra uni that are currently
somewhere in the middle of their courses...

Our goal is to learn it, and then spread it... ;)

The articles and threads that are published here
form the core of this brilliant meditation practice...

The words and images serve us students as we make
our way in and around the 'required reading list'...

It takes a little while to familiarize oneself with
all of these various elemental subsystems... :p

As students we're beginning to get to a place where
the pertinent questions will start to flow as the
overall outline of the entire structure takes shape...

We're entering into the phase of codification...

All this needs is a savvy editor (or six), to organize the
entire system and present it in progressive stages...

__________________

Great list of student attributes, N...:yes:

[m1thr0s]

perhaps. among my precarious duties is the duty to critique the process as a whole. I am never happy with the role of teacher...it forces me into a mode of communication I find tedious and unnatural...it confines me to a level of *expertise* that is often strained and occasionally flat impossible. The compensation is worse than atrocious and commonly causes me to feel like the world's most gullible gimp...a role I am hardly suited to otherwise and not especially thrilled with assuming...

The images themselves instruct and graphs and charts and supplemental materials all gather in support of a singular and ongoing dialog roughly a million times as eloquent as anything I can possibly pen.

But really...this topic is not about that...it is rather about how others can learn this stuff, assuming someone is attempting to teach it. In all fairness I would prefer that someone were not myself, but if it is, then for now, it is.

Of all the things that have thus far been mentioned I think I am most adamant about the principle of action...although there has to be a balance of study, reflection and action for action to pan out as it should. I also think that people need some means of getting outside themselves to some extent. Some can do this as a state of mind...others may need a little help from nature. In either case I think we have to find some way to utilize *altered* states of consciousness as a means of expanding our perceptions or certain critical doors will tend to remain closed to us that can never really be opened through logical means alone. This is typically not a popular admission and I really don't much give a shit if it is not. I don't care how you do it but you need to find some way to storm the senses into a higher state of sensory awareness or much of this work will be a complete waste of time.

It is important to understand the Abra system in terms of the traditional 8 Limbs of yoga, since what we find is actually going on here (and also defines some of the problems we face) is that we are going straight to the top of the ladder where other more traditional schools would be quick to advise years of preparation before even attempting any of this. The problem is that in reality, the lesser limbs almost always become ends in themselves and only in the rarest of instances do we find people truly advancing through them from the bottom to the top. It is an uncanny principle in the evolution of knowledge that breakthrough technologies more often occur where the need is greatest - not where the warrant is the highest. LHP practitioners utilize this principle when electing to abandon tradition in deference to the directest path available to them.

While we may risk the lack of a proper grounding in some cases, we lack for nothing in daring attacking the business of *Samyama* (Control) - beyond the realm of Jnana (Knowledge), via its supernal triunity of (1) Dharana (Concentration), (2) Dhyana (*Meditation), and (3) Samadhi (Absorption). One needs a fairly decent grounding in the principles of the classical yogas at least...though it is in fact possible to progress without them. But the better you can identify your positioning relative to the rest of human endeavor and understanding, the more confidently and less awkwardly you can usually proceed.

note that *meditation is not a thing in itself in this discussion but an aspect of control...this is an important concept to grasp.

m1thr0s

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

In terms of educating others, I once heard a professor say that "educating people is not in what you cover, but what you uncover." Uncovering is certainly taking place here!

[m1thr0s]

Probably just as useful as a means of defining successful studentship don't you think CS? So much a process of peeling away layers, coming to new layers seemingly ad infinitum. I suppose if teaching is fraught with false assumptions, how much moreso with studentship itself? *Expectations* is a big one...one of the biggies that is having to be constantly rewritten...being either too great in one instance or not great enough in the next.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

lets get some fucking mescaline or something then


i don't get your hangup with teaching m1thr0s, it's not like you have to act like somebody else to be a teacher, I get all kinds of students just by being myself, you want to talk about getting paid to be a teacher, then you have to get into the role of being a greedy shithead, and then you have to teach what THEY want you to teach.

I sense your nervousness of getting into the teacher role has to do with your whole goal of getting taken seriously, but nothing is ever going to be perfect until you set things straight with your goals of getting the whole system overhauled while you have to live in the system.

Now getting back to the teacher thing, this kind of role is different in every culture, maybe you need to just get over yourself and start getting used to the idea a lot of people are going to learn from you and that, by default makes you some kind of teacher.

gosh it's better than calling you something like "ng's errand boy" etc....

hey a good way of teaching is to have a school, and whenever someone challenges you you get one of your students to smash their face in...they always did it like that in the good old days in Japan, and it was cool...

and you could just, you know, hang out...or w/e

X-men sucks by the way...


edit:

but instead of a martial art school you could have your students mutate people instead of smash their face in, that's what I actually meant....

[Naomi]

are you too cool for school or something?

[m1thr0s]

it has more to do with the form than with me.
maybe this quote will help:

"I would not think of quarreling with your interpretation nor offering any other, as I have found it always the best policy to allow the film to speak for itself." (Stanley Kubrick)

Like I said, I'm not really a teacher and I really don't trust the role. I don't really want others to learn from me...if they do this they have learned nothing...if you want to learn Abrahadabra, consult the images, challenge the proofs, try to blow this shit out of the water with everything you've got...when you finally discover that you cannot fault or best it with everything you have tried, you will begin to learn a little something about what it is and why it matters.

words only confuse things in my view. The more of them I spin, the more confusing it all gets.

m1thr0s

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

Agreed on all counts m1! Allow me to postulate....Could you com up with a "basics" that would allow those unfamiliar with the craft to delve? I'm thinking a couple steps of how you begin your magic process, actual physical movements if there are any, and what one may expect in the daily practice thereof?

Just a question.

The rest is entirely upon the shoulders of the "user" and the images/sygils themselves!

[Naomi]

yet still - we wouldn't know that if you didn't point it out

so what are you doing?

I get that it's not your job to ignite the system for others, or really start the ball rolling, but you're not without complaint in saying you're forced into a teacher role because of the sheer responsibility of having discovered the system.

Now are you or are you not enjoying helping people. We teach by example and not by lecturing or demonstrating - if you use words to do that, fine - anyone who thinks learning must be done by word accumulation is missing the point, yet I tend to enjoy words for certain thing, it's not a tool to be used in all situations but in some cases it must be done.

Especially without a classroom environment, and without being able to manage action in person.

This system is actually scary - and not in a bad way, it's just unnerving, you need to talk to people about it sometimes, and I don't say that lightly, there's a alot to this that requires the attention of many types of individuals and it would work better as a group exercise (actually be more fun and entertaining and even enlightening)

of course we got a famous saying in the native community "uh less thunder from the mouth more lightning from the hands k"

[m1thr0s]

I'm a talismanic artist Naomi...the words make me sick to my stomach...

sorry if people are not getting that...my images define themselves...I have made a tactical error attempting to explain them...this only diminishes their own innate, superior language.

I'm not sure what I'll do about it. I haven't decide yet.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

I wouldn't have gotten into it if you just posted up some images...something to think about...and I wouldn't have kept going if I didn't have some frame of reference...

There's no direct bridge to get to them...that's just how it is...and I'm about as freeform as you get.

I don't understand it though...if you don't like words so much, why do you type so much?

[m1thr0s]

Agreed on all counts m1! Allow me to postulate....Could you com up with a "basics" that would allow those unfamiliar with the craft to delve? I'm thinking a couple steps of how you begin your magic process, actual physical movements if there are any, and what one may expect in the daily practice thereof?

Just a question.

The rest is entirely upon the shoulders of the "user" and the images/sygils themselves!this is really where I got looped into teaching to begin with...I realized at some point that people did not fathom the actual practice of "weaving"...my principle mode of action in both developing and testing these systems!

and that's a problem...and yet...it may be that even this is an unwarranted concern...this is what I am trying to review. You can begin just as you might begin with any mandala...just *gazing* is sufficient to start the wheels in motion...it is my belief that the talismans themselves are ultimately instructing their viewers one-at-a-time...just as they have done for me, they do for others...

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Good, well - then what happens when they start giving you the hint you really should read this stuff this guy over here wrote....

[m1thr0s]

I don't understand it though...if you don't like words so much, why do you type so much?I do like words...without restrictions...I do like casual conversation...but the more I speak, the less others seem to speak...

I didn't start a godamm forum just to listen to my own wheels rattle...

and the art itself is suffering from it in my opinion...important work is not getting done while I spend too much time "discussing" things...

I can incorporate words into images where absolutely required...animations and word-art on all levels...none of it really needs to be "explained"...

m1thr0s

[m1thr0s]

good well - then what happens when they start giving you the hint you really should read this stuff this guy over here wrote....look at this in terms of other visual art forms naomi...if you want to know what a visual artist thinks...study his images...

this is ultimately a visual art form...science yes...but when it really succeeds it succeeds because the images ignite something all by themselves...

consider your own experience...

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

alright I GET IT

this site doesn't come across as art oriented though...

it's more like a huge gluon factory


I'm going to make some art

[m1thr0s]

it needs more of a gallery structure...I don't really know how to set that all up...I'm beginning to look into it though...

MM's art...yours, mine...other people's...would then be more readily accessible instead of having to fumble through hundreds of topics...

the forums can remain but perhaps be less the focus and also probably be trimmed down a bit...I don't really think this makes a very convincing all-and-everything sort of site anyway...it has a theme...there's no avoiding that without completely rebuilding it from scratch...

anyway...I'm just thinking about all of this for now.

m1thr0s

[Catalytic Subterfuge]

m1:

At some point, you are going to have to defer to your staff for discussion and concentrate solely on your "work". Having said that, you will still need to defer to your staff to find out what else is abuzz around the discussions. Are you confident in your discussion staff to funnel only the most pertinent questions your way?

[m1thr0s]

I'll need to study other gallery formats but it seems to me there is almost always space for the artists introductory comments as well as follow-up comments and so on...

i don't foresee shutting down discussion areas (possibly trimming as i said). I am thinking more along the lines of a design expansion...

so I'm not sure i am reading your question in lieu of that focus...

m1

[Naomi]

I made this today for demonstrative purposes.

http://www.thetengu.com/abrahadabra/4.jpg

[m1thr0s]

I like your new avatar naomi...actually all your avatars are pretty cool but that's a neat pic...

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Why don't you paint a large version of the twin trees and slap a $10,000 price tag on the fucker, that'll make them stare at it for a few hours...

trust me....it works.

[fr.novumorganum]

You can begin just as you might begin with any mandala...just *gazing* is sufficient to start the wheels in motion...it is my belief that the talismans themselves are ultimately instructing their viewers one-at-a-time...just as they have done for me, they do for others...

m1thr0s

I can attest to this very much, especially in regards to the 'rat' Jupiter talisman (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showpost.php?p=13449&postcount=54) m1 posted. Just watching the energy dance it in for bit 'convinced' me that this was an issue I needed to settle in my Universe. IMHO this might be the most 'charged' image on this site. It 'weaves' itself...

Well, I've been working this sucker for about 3 weeks now, and it has been teaching me; both on the logic of its construction, and on the battle to be fought...it even tends to bring you right to the battlefield and supply you with the weapons...

So my first point again is USE the mirrors that are here on the site...they are by no means as complicated as the theory behind their construction...and using them makes the theory accessible.

My second point is something I wrote in PM to m1thros, and I don't think he'll mind my sharing it. These mirrors seem to me the quintessence of ritual; they are ritual in expressed in the purest language of symbol and number; each one has a specific function(s) just waiting to be triggered by practice. For those of us not steeped in weaving tantra or alchemical symbolism, the first question was really well how do I use these things? Imagine it the same as the LBRP, just without all the hoopla. The same magickal skills make them work: vibration, concentration, visualization. Daily practice brings the results.

My last point is to m1thr0s. I don't think the instructional words take away from the images at all; in fact, I think they are needed. Its the theoretical discourse that is a bit more of the barrier. That theory is rock solid, and certainly many of us want to learn it and apply it, but it might be best separated from the working mirrors. Think of it like this---if someone hasn't mastered the LBRP, which is given only with instructions on how to do it, they will never understand the theory in something like Magick in Theory and Practice.

And that is the best analogy, I think. So many people either say MTP is pure hogwash or they pretend to comprehend it but make no sense when they talk about it...but when someone reads MTP after doing ritual work (even the basics) well hell, that MTP starts to make sense...even in the academic world, a lot of people practice a discipline without understanding the theory that makes it work...

[m1thr0s]

It baffles me sometimes how any one discipline would seem to incorporate so many new ideas in one fell swoop...which sort of makes my job all the more frustrating I think. I reference *tantra* a great deal because it's probably the closest I can get to other recognized forms but even this is not quite the same as what goes on in this practice...close...but not quite. So I quite like your "ritual" analogy frank and I would say I am in complete accord with this...although something a little peculiar seems to happen in application...a whole new level (or levels) of spontaneity seems to open itself up to the practitioner and I believe this goes right to the core of the "knowledge & conversation" principle we have heard so much about in Golden Dawn related literature.

more on this later perhaps...

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

thanks for posting that image/article fr. I never saw that one before, I got a bad vibe from Jupiter last year which kind of pairs with this thing...

gtg...will continue later.

[Talkingfox]

Why don't you paint a large version of the twin trees and slap a $10,000 price tag on the fucker, that'll make them stare at it for a few hours...

trust me....it works.

Oh gods N...thanks for the belly laugh. And yeah it works.

[Talkingfox]

l..if you want to know what a visual artist thinks...study his images...

this is ultimately a visual art form...science yes...but when it really succeeds it succeeds because the images ignite something all by themselves...


m1thr0s

I think that this is true on so very many levels. Unfortunately even on a pure gallery art level the artist is called upon to explain their work.

I can't count how many times at openings that I just wanted to scream "JUST SHADDUP AND LOOK DAMMIT" and my stuff isn't even overly loaded. I keep the clip in my pocket for the most part.

Whilst I appreciate all the time and effort that's gone into the analysis and explanation of the images, I find myself going directly to the images themselves and letting it rip so to speak. It's a language I understand even if I can't always explain it...:rolleyes:

[Kuroyagi]

I think thats partly due to the relativistic 20th century philosophies that proclaimed to view (visual) art in connection with a certain context or idea alone- like putting up a white canvas, or making ordinary objects like toilet seats or windows or soup cans "art" by depriving them of meaning or their usual surrounding...etcetc and various other more philosophical than artistically challenging games that are genius when done once but imbecility when done more often than twice....seems to get better recently...or even worse insofar as it all becomes dengenerate and kitschy to the core. But thats no prob. for me at least; like all of those who have been around for some time I know that the greatest beauty can come out of the rotting carcass of dying cultures.

[Anibis]

I think thats partly due to the relativistic 20th century philosophies that proclaimed to view (visual) art in connection with a certain context or idea alone- like putting up a white canvas, or making ordinary objects like toilet seats or windows or soup cans "art" by depriving them of meaning or their usual surrounding...etcetc and various other more philosophical than artistically challenging games that are genius when done once but imbecility when done more often than twice....seems to get better recently...or even worse insofar as it all becomes dengenerate and kitschy to the core. But thats no prob. for me at least; like all of those who have been around for some time I know that the greatest beauty can come out of the rotting carcass of dying cultures.

Well that's relief, cuz this one's really starting to stink...
-Anibis

[Kuroyagi]

haha- yes, and this is only the normal "artistic" view on it, anyway. The graphs here are even uncannily "practical" or clear-cut, they have this Satanic, this undermining quality to them: so that the Taoist view that "the highest art will not seem like art" comes to mind. Like the high simplicity of the Yi Ching or something. To stay on topic one could say that it needs that "magical" or alchemical focus or perspective to fully appreciate them or also use them- cause thats what has also a correlation with conventional art (which isnt conventional then anymore): one can the better actualize and understand it, the better ones sense of aesthetic judgement is developed. One has to do some "work" in oneself to recreate the work of art or rather to praticipate in it fully- this is whats meant by conversing with the pictures, and one cannot do it without immersing oneself into their fields.

[m1thr0s]

Why don't you paint a large version of the twin trees and slap a $10,000 price tag on the fucker, that'll make them stare at it for a few hours...right...so let's see...that works out to something less than $1/hr for the total time invested into them thus far...probably much less...

if I could come up with some jade and gold and a few tools we could just make it a cool million for a smokin' talisman...that would be fun...

that's probably my whole problem here...I've been working my 1's and 0's vertically...not horizontally...:o

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Can we go to the art thread I just made and discuss this please?

I'm going to get turned out again for getting off topic.

[m1thr0s]

oh well...can't discuss it right now anyway...gotta turn in a bit early tonight...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

I'm just bumping this thread, cuz I saw a
SlurpSpider reading it and it syncs up
with the recent upgrade developments...