Draugr

[deviadah]

A draugr... is a corporeal undead from Norse mythology. The original norse meaning of the word is ghost, and on older literature one will find clear distinctions between Sea-draug and land-draug. Draugar were believed to live in the graves of dead Vikings, being the body of the dead. - source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draugar)

I've stumbled upon this creature a few weeks ago and have never heard about them before. I would love some thoughts, if there are any, from Foxy Fox or Ratty Rat!

;)

If there are any thoughts to be made that is...

:cool:

[Talkingfox]

There’s loads of stuff on the Draugr in the sagas, particularly the Icelandic ones.

Hilda Ellis-Davidson did a bunch of work in her “The Road to Hel” (Westport, CT, Greenwood Press 1943) as well.

The Draugr are actually considered to be less like what is a normal conception of a ghost and more like animated corpses of immense physical strength and often shapeshifting ability. In short, Nordic Undead.

There are several kinds. The haugbui are more common in Norwegian Myth and are pretty much home bodies, rarely found far from their burial place and don’t threaten anyone that’s not actually hanging out on their burial mound….kind of like a wight that way.
Draugr are more common in Icelandic myth and roam around. Another name for these guys is Aptrgagnger (lit: ‘after goer’)

Whatever they’re called they differ from ghosts in that they have a physical presence, usually huge and sometimes partially rotted.


There’s also tales that speak of these walking corpses having knowledge of the future and other magical abilities, such as ‘swimming’ through solid stone.

The over all feeling in the sagas about the Draugr is an overwhelming resentment and jealousy of the living, leading to physical and magical attacks.

They are also portrayed as having insatiable hunger, perhaps a reflection of their desire for life.

[deviadah]

They sound cool!

:laugh:

Some vampire-like zombie creature!

How can they be destroyed, or exorcised?

:cool:

[Talkingfox]

They sound cool!

:laugh:

Some vampire-like zombie creature!

How can they be destroyed, or exorcised?

:cool:

It was believed that the dead could die again…

“I can tell with truth, I say,
For I have seen all the worlds
'neath the welkin.
Niflhel beneath nine worlds I saw,
There men die out of Hel.”
(Hollander, "Vafthruthnismal," The Poetic Edda, p. 50)

Not my favorite translation, but the one I had at hand.


It seems that in the mythic that getting rid of these beasties was a royal pain in the ass.
Iron weapons could harm them but were not always fatal.

OK..first is a hand to hand wrestling match until the draugr is subdued.
Then, decapitation with a sword from its own burial mound. In some traditions this is easier said than done as the hero was required to leap between the body and the severed head before it hit the ground, or walk widdershins 3 times around the head and body or slam a stake through the headless body, at least according to Saxo Grammaticus.

Then, the entirety of the lifeless bits must be burned to cold ash and the ashes buried in a remote spot or thrown out to sea. Apparently if all this mucking about isn’t followed they tend to be repeaters.

[Dragon]

Sounds complicated...I'd pack a lunch.

Great work on these threads TF, you and Rk both.

Thanks.

~D~

[Talkingfox]

Sounds complicated...I'd pack a lunch.

Great work on these threads TF, you and Rk both.

Thanks.

~D~

Ah thanks Dragon.

Don't these draugr guys sniff a bit like the Buddhist Hungry Ghosts w/ a great deal of grumpiness thrown in to you?

[Naomi]

More like zombies TalkingFox...the Hungry Ghosts are non-coporeal and you can appease them easily with burned hell bank notes and offerings of food...

These sound like Night of the Living Dead to be honest, kind of scary. Still they could be the same thing depending on where this legend is coming from, visionary work or scrying the local astral fields are possible.

Maybe I'll have to cancel my graveyard ceremony experiments in case of them actually working.

I have seen spirits that resemble devouring monsters, I used to work closely with this sort, they're very easy to find. I don't recall any corpses, but there have been trance visions where I was exploring some neighborhood houses and stumbled upon the dead, I banish them to the source....

They don't come near me hardly at all anymore, as I grew into my magick i noticed they kept getting more dangerous (ie from bigger, deeper sources than just humans) and the little ones just stay away. This is one of the advantages of raising the internal fires.

Thanks for sharing, these are very creepy monsters.

[Talkingfox]

Yeah I guess that the Draugr are more like human Trolls than Hungry Ghosts.

But, Draugr become Draugr due to unwillingness to accept their Wyrd and I mean Wyrd in the truest sense ie meaning to 'turn into or transorm by twisting' rather than the carved in stone fate thing that's been popular as of late.

I guess where I saw the similarities is in the mind process that gets them to their respective states.

The Nordic stuff is chock full of creepy huge ass monsters btw.

[Naomi]

I saw Beowulf and listen to Wagner but otherwise I have no idea what you are talking about lady, what's a Wyrd?

[Talkingfox]

This is a pretty good definition from Wiki.

"In a simple sense, Wyrd refers to how past actions continually affect and condition the future, but also how the future affects the past. Indeed, for a true comprehension it is key for the Wyrd to be embraced as a conceptual mystery, wherein the tides (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tide) and tidings (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tidings) of time and timelessness flow and weave always, all ways, entwining the reticulum of the fabric of being and non-being.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyrd#_note-0) The Wyrd also foregrounds the interconnected nature of all actions and how they influence each other. Wyrd, though conceptually related, is not congruent with predestination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination). Unlike predestination, the concept of Wyrd allows for one's wyrd or agency: albeit agency 'constrained' (Proto-Germanic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Germanic_language): Naudiz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naudiz)) by the wyrds (the intentions and activities) of others, but nevertheless capable of weaving reality. This view is also prominent in the concept of Karma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma), as used in Indian religions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_religions). Wyrd is "inexorable (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/inexorable)"[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyrd#_note-1) and "goes as she shall"[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyrd#_note-2), the fate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny) (Norse ørlǫg) woven or scored by the Norns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norns). Indeed, the term's Norse cognate urðr, besides meaning "fate", is the name of one of the Norns, closely related to the concept of necessity (skuld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skuld_%28Norn%29)). The name of the younger sister, Verðandi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ver%C3%B0andi), is strictly the present participle of the verb cognate to weorþan.
According to Voluspa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluspa) 20, the three Norns "set up the laws", "decided on the lives of the children of time" and "promulgate their Ørlǫg"[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyrd#_note-3). Frigg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigg), on the other hand, while she "knows all ørlǫg", "says it not herself" (Lokasenna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lokasenna) 30)."


Orlog is, btw, sort of the external law of the Universe. (literal trans. ancient or beyond age law) To greatly understate it, Orlog is the ultimate purpose, or great plan, of Creation, sometimes seen as a Goddess.

Wyrd is seen as a daughter of Orlog in some (but not all) Norse creation myths.

[Naomi]

Oh cool, sounds pretty spooky, I like it....

SO they refuse to accept their fate, correct?

[Talkingfox]

Well sort of...more like refusing to accept the change.

[Ratatosk]

Chiming in here:

I remember reading a saga many years ago (although I don't recall which saga - there are many) in which a man's wyrd played a pivotal, though understated, role.

A man was told that he would go into battle beside his brother against a foe, and would strike down his brother in anger before the battle began. He worried about this incessantly and it gnawed at his mind for years. One day, the entire village was readying to fight off marauders who were working their way along the coast. While everyone was getting into their positions he remembered the prophecy and ran, determined that he would not kill his brother. He stole a boat and headed out to sea where he drowned, and the marauders, led by a signal from his brother and allowed behind the defensive lines by him, killed everyone, including his wife and children, while his brother was killed by some of the other villagers during the battle when his part in it was realized.

The narrator of the story said that it was that man's unreadiness to face his own turnings that brought about such sorrow.

What I found interesting, and why it stuck with me, is that most translators would probably have chosen the word fate rather than turnings.

If I can figure out which saga this is I'll post it - but I read it many, many years ago, in a great huge hardcover book from the library when I was 17. This collection of sagas was, in fact, one of the things that led me to look deeper into the runes and Norse mythology in general.

It really does, however, point out the difference between fate (ørlǫg) and wyrd. If it was his fate to kill his brother he would have, since the idea is that fate is inescapable. Wyrd, however, is something a little less concrete, and a little more, uh, weird. :o_O:

[Wolfman]

I've stumbled upon this creature a few weeks ago and have never heard about them before. I would love some thoughts, if there are any, from Foxy Fox or Ratty Rat!

;)

If there are any thoughts to be made that is...

:cool:

I am convinced I have these creatures in my 'hood! they are often seen pushing shopping carts down back lanes or stealing stuff from people's back yards. Sometimes they dwell under bridges.....

....I guess they could be Trolls too then.....;-)


Wolfman

[Talkingfox]

I've seen a few wandering around the shopping malls too...albeit better dressed.

[Wolfman]

Chiming in here:

I remember reading a saga many years ago (although I don't recall which saga - there are many) in which a man's wyrd played a pivotal, though understated, role.



Hey Ratatosk;

Its possible that we aren't supposed to know the whole story of our Wryd, and those who resist to the point of becoming Draugr are really out of the loop.

As well, I hear ya on the prophesy thing. It is difficult to walk the road of prophesy, no doubt. For those whose lives are touched by such things I can imagine it could either cause great turmoil (as you described in your story) or great peace of mind. Prophesy has its place in my family too - and in this case it has brought peace of mind.

About eight years ago my Hunka brother ( a Native brother through ceremony) who is of the Dakota Nation was sitting with his family at the bedside of his grandma. basically it was a death watch of sorts, but in most Native traditions it is a kind of celebration as well: everyone gathers and the one preparing to cross gets to see many of their relations that they might not have seen for a long while. Its kind of a family reunion of sorts as well as other things.

Anyway, my brother, Bill, is speaking with his grandma and she tells him she wants to pass on her traditional (read, Native Indian) name. Bill and his sisters got pretty intrigued because in their family only one female relation has ever carried this particular name in the family in any single generation. Since Bill's Grandma was a Medicine Woman, her traditional name carried even more power and the family members were anxious to know whose child would be so blessed.

Then the old lady surprised everyone by revealing a prophesy she had been given from the Spirit World - and telling them that the name should be given to someone outside of the blood family.
Bill was told that a Warrior brother of his who lived up north would be having a baby girl and when that baby girl was born she was to receive the name. Bill was told he would know who it was at the time and his Grandma described to a tee, what the little girl would look like.

Turns out that little girl was my daughter, Holly Diana. About a day after she was born, she was given the name by my brother and we were told that the name carries a hefty amount of power. Its related to the Native concept of Deer Medicine, and people who have this sort of 'essence' in them grow to become healers, Medicine people, and bringers of peace.

Long before she was old enough to know about her name and its meaning, young Holly began astonishing family members with behaviour right along the lines of what she was predicted to be: She has a little of her dad's coyote side, sure, but for the most part she is instinctively inclined to help and to nurture others. there's a lot more to it that I won't go into. Now that she's old enough to be aware of her native name and the meaning of the gift, she tells us 'oh I've known that all along because those old Grandmas and Grandpas (spirit people) told me and I know its my job to help others.'

And Draugr? My daughter is very attuned to the other side of her heritage as well. Apparently "there aren't too many of those grey people around here, but that day when we went to visit the grave yard? Yeah there are a few there."

and... "Some of those binners in the back lane are really dead people I think but they don't know it yet, daddy.'

...this followed by a talk on rainbows and unicorns and all kinds of light children's stuff as she switches channels in her reality at a whim ;)

These things are very real to kids and I think thats because they haven't been conditioned to block out the realities/counter realities that are all around us.

Maybe a lot of the homeless and mall-zombies we see these days are an illustration of that? Who knows, maybe some of them are really undead, but how many more are soul-dead and don't even know it?

Thoughts to chew on

Wolfman

[Darin Hamel]

Oh, I didn't know they were real. I played a video game called Morrowind and they had the draugr in the nord burial mounds. Huh.... the things you learn playing video games.......