Louis Claude de St. Martin

[deviadah]

This is my favourite philosopher. And although I have read very little of his own words (since very little is translated from French) I still feel very close to him. If anyone has any translated works please let me know!

Here's a quote from a pamphlet called A Doctrine of Correspondences:
...the stars are its [the universe] lights, the earth its altar, all corporeal beings are its holocausts, and man, who is priest of the Eternal, offers the sacrifices.

...it is said also that the universe is like a great fire lighted since the beginning of things for the purification of all corrupted beings. Finally, it is a great allegory or fable which must give place to a grand morality.

The revivification of the will is therefore the chief work of all fallen creatures. The same lesson is conveyed in symbolical language when it is said that the object of man on earth is to employ all rights and powers of his being in rarefying as far as possible the intervening media between himself and the true Sun, so that - the opposition being practically none - there may be a free passage, and that the rays of light may reach him without refraction.

...the instrument by which we fall is that also by which we must rise: the evil in man originated in the will of man, and thereby it must be stamped out. His crime is defined as the abuse of the knowledge he possessed concerning the union of the principle of the universe with the universe. His penalty was the privation of this knowledge.

Wikipedia on St. Martin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Claude_de_Saint-Martin)

Eighty Aphorisms and Maxims of Louis-Claude de Saint-Martin (http://kingsgarden.org/english/organizations/OM.GB/StMartin/Aphorisms.html)

The French Mystic and the Story of Modern Martinism (http://kingsgarden.org/english/organizations/OM.GB/StMartin/MartinWaite.html) by A.E. Waite

:cool:

"We are all in a widowed state, and our task is to re-marry." - Louis Claude de St. Martin

[Kuroyagi]

I knew him (and his) only by name but his bio as well as his thoughts sound interesting...didnt know that G.D. connection/influence either.

[deviadah]

Yeah he is a Don that is for sure... I read that one thing he strongly believed - and something I always try to follow - is that if you don't say anything of value you might as well shut up!

What he means is that less talk about the neighbours wife, what's on TV or such matters and instead fill all your conversations with gnosis and insights and inspirational words!

He believed that if the human race concentrated on doing this we would evolve forward much faster... so I always try to follow his example!

So should you!

:yes:

http://www.specchiomagico.net/fotosaintmartin.jpg

[Kuroyagi]

Unless of course I disagreed with him on that point which I coincidentally do. ;)

In my opinion "talking BS" or just conversing is as important for ones mental integrity as trying to formulate something in a concise and concentrated way. Moreover it fulfills social, biological and psychological functions- like expressing love and friendship, belonging to a group, not caring what to say all the time- relaxing, and many others too. One simply has to have some free space too when one just can talk about anything and everything- also stupid things- that comes to mind. I often do it with friends who arent lacking intelligence either- often we intersperse talks about TV and gossip with new ideas about philosophy and art and become inspired by such BS talk even (IMO)...so I'd have to say, that, though he has a point insofar as to exclusively talk about such things would be idiotic and unproductive, it doesnt mean that all such talk should be forbidden or humankind should be "made efficient" in that way, either...humankind is brought forward by various things but not so much by being unnatural psycho-mentats who expel poetry with every word they say...and this is also what I partly have to critizise about many Enlightenment philosophers and the Magical Orders and Will-philosophies that have sprung out of them.

At that time it was a great fashion to view the universe as a clockwork mechanism and progress and novelty were the slogans of the day. Yet even this had its "dark side", its even more ecstatic and irrational side that was some kind of reaction to that overly emphasized rationalism. (French Courtlife, Rokoko Art, or even the Romantic movement later). As I have said: you are an idealist, Dev.[well you or/and Mr. Martin there], if of the best sort and have the right to imagine any ideal as fit for humanity that you like but in this case it doesnt coincide with mine for the reason that I dont think that Nature has designed "efficiency" (of which creativity is an important part) in that linear-logical fashion at all...

[deviadah]

:laugh:

I knew I'd get you going on that post...

Moreover it fulfills social, biological and psychological functions- like expressing love and friendship, belonging to a group, not caring what to say all the time- relaxing, and many others too.

Yeah this is a standard reply (not saying it is bad or anything like that), but I already have a standard answer: Is it? Does it?

50 years ago we didn't know what Earth looked like from space!

What I mean is we can't be sure about anything that has never been done... perhaps the utopian in me speaking... but I refuse not to strive towards all my idealistic goals!

:rofl:

Sure, sometimes one needs to take a bath and relax in order to shout Eureka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_(word)) and run naked down the street: but taking a relaxing bath and watching American Idol, or talking to your girlfriend about Paris Hiltons new hairdo is not the same thing.

I agree to disagree, but really the more time your brain is in the Land of Banality the less it will function in the Land of Glory!

The brain is a muscle and just like a muscle it needs practice, if you eat a lot of cake you'll get fat for example!

I value your points, but I just don't see it like you do!

;)

"All is vanity," says Solomon; but let courage, charity, and virtue be excluded from this teaching; rather, let us raise ourselves towards these sublime things, until we are able to say that all is truth, that all is love, that all is felicity.

Words are given to us in trust, as sheep to a shepherd. If we leave them to go astray, to become famished, or to be devoured by wolves, we shall be called to a stricter account than he is. - from Eighty Aphorisms and Maxims of Louis-Claude de Saint-Martin (http://kingsgarden.org/english/organizations/OM.GB/StMartin/Aphorisms.html)

Words equal gold, not shit, and you don't go around throwing gold - if you had it- about you, do you? But we, humans, throw around a lot of shit (wars = failure to communicate). You give it (words/gold) to those worthy, and you present it in the most spectacular of fashion.

:cool:

[Kuroyagi]

Well you make some good points anyway...like that the brain will turn "fat" without practice...thats certainly true. If one exclusively "studies" soap operas for example..LOL, yet I have also found that interspersing difficult pondering with breaks of whatever, mundane stuff, or:- something with which youd more agree (in your Idealistic mania ;)): a long walk in nature w/o thinking at all, makes it even better...and to this kind also belong that so called banal knowledge...


Yeah this is a standard reply (not saying it is bad or anything like that), but I already have a standard answer: Is it? Does it?
Why standard reply?...maybe; but in this case I simply talked of my experience which is maybe (at last!) a bit mediocre, there...:laugh: always fun conversing with you dev.- of course it "got me going" cause Im allergic to being told "what I should do"...anyway, maybe this or that...we disagree on our projection there...

[deviadah]

Yeah a walk in nature, or a relaxing bath is not - in my opinion - part of banality. One needs to rest the mind... and it is better to think about nothing than to think about crap!

I am not perfect by any means. Although I hardly ever fall into idle talk, I tend to sometimes watch crap or such things in order to calm down my mind. But I have found that it does such a good job that I find it difficult to care about the real issues afterwards. Like a bad drug!

So I try to stay clear of banality as much as I can. It is worse than cigarettes, not only is it addictive - but it is also unhealthy!

;)

...of course it "got me going" cause Im allergic to being told "what I should do"

Looks like we have something in common:

YouTube - RATM -Killing in the name - official video

:rofl:

[Kuroyagi]

Been there too until I discovered that my exaggerated "fear" and rejection of the common, of mediocrity and banality was also some kind of fear of a part of myself...but youre right: why not get rid of it if you dont like it? Thats your good right!

I think when comparing words with gold (in the quote above) a great deal of importance has to be laid on context and form. That the mythical King Solomon is used there is of course no surprise since his religion is very word- and script based. But theres a great difference between spoken and written word and again between various forms- like a scrap of paper you pass on to your friend, a letter of introduction, an advertisement or a plead for ones life...naturally I also agree with you that literary expression has gone down a bit recently by TV, and the use of other media (but has it ever been that "common" to begin with? literates and people who could express themselves well are always a minority anyway)- and still this cant consolidate me or "befriend me" with the practice of heeding ones every word all the time...

[deviadah]

and still this cant consolidate me or "befriend me" with the practice of heeding ones every word all the time...
I think an experiment is the only think that can show you the way. Try it for a week. Speak only if you got something glorious to say, or to ask. Ignore or be silent when idle/gossip talk comes your way!

See what happens. If nothing comes of it at least you tried... besides experiments are always fun to do!

:p

Now I got to take a nightly (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showpost.php?p=32227&postcount=9) walk!

[Luciftias]

I'm an S:.I:. (3rd degree) member of a Martinist Order. It's not bad. Very masonic, and very Christian - although it is esoteric christianity, perhaps even Gnostic. My branch was full of gnostics, so that's the paradigm we interpreted the material from. Not active in it anymore.

[deviadah]

I'm an S:.I:. (3rd degree) member of a Martinist Order.

Interesting, so have you ever come across his writings in translated form (his books that is)?

I have only read translated paragraphs and his works explained through A.E. Waite which is really frustraiting!

:cool:

[deviadah]

http://www.moup.org/_borders/Logo.gif (http://www.moup.org/Introduction.htm)

http://interfaithinstitute.cqhost.net/Image17.gif (http://interfaithinstitute.cqhost.net/Martinism.htm)
Click on image to go to sites...

:cool:

Edit:
Forgot to add that Louis Claude de Saint-Martin also declared that “numbers are the only sensible expression of the different properties of beings, which all proceed from the one and only essence.” Specifically of the number seven (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=1742) he viewed it as the ruling number of the manifested universe.

;)