Atheism = 1 Magic = 0

[Frater SI]

The Great Tantra Challenge (http://www.rationalistinternational.net/article/2008/20080310/en_1.html)

[m1thr0s]

that's very funny, if not a little suspicious since I have a hard time imagining any serious tantric practitioner being that stupid...and he's touted as the deadliest of the deadlies!

we've discussed this sort of thing before...even so-called tantra has largely got its head up its ass these days. It has failed to keep pace with time and the evolution of knowledge through time, so this cheap amusement stuff is often what we get.

It doesn't really define what tantra is, nor what it can and should be, but it's a sobering glimpse at how ill-dignified it very often has become...

great article...

m1

[Frater SI]

I found it very funny we have seen fundamentalist christians trying to do similiar things by healing paraplegics on live TV.. If anything that show of defience could have possibly shed alot of belief and paranoia among the indian population.

[Naomi]

I got into a slightly huge argument over this at the 600 club recently, so it's kind of funny you brought it up again...I think I actually said "AWWW not AGAIN" this morning before work, and naturally predicted m1 would respond.

http://www.the600club.com/dir/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/5932/Main/594/#Post5932

I instead chose to defend tantra....heh....I think I was feeling a tad gnarly that day

"Why are you so ignorant of tantra, any Satanist should really know what this is about, it's one of the foundational arts of magick and quite good at discerning truth from fiction, it was developed in response to the lack of freedom in Vedic society, a Satanic movement in itself thousands of years before Christ. *Hinduism* is not defined immediately by religion but by the search for truth, Ayurvedic methods and the flowery language of the Vedas stand in stark opposition to each other because religion is never mentioned in the Vedas at all, the complete truth in philosophy and the conclusion of arousal to becoming absolute god in mind - transcendentalism is the goal of ancient Hindu philosophy. It became separated into a relgiion when India joined the rest of the world, yet today the goal of the tantricist is to rejoin all corroded threads of knowledge and situate the mind in such a way that absolute truth is uncovered and one exists in a state of perfect balance and equilibrium with universe.

Hinduism has come under attack from many sides for reasons unknown to me yet. The same thing is happening to Satanism and I feel like if the truth is going to come out - the real truth, bound by nature and exposed by science, one has to remain objective and have a firm grasp of what is bastardized and what is misunderstood. There is a good amount of mind science going on in the culture of India and China and preserving that until we can sort the gold from the lead is essential, as is intense scrutiny of people parading as tantricists when essentially they are nothing but sensationalists and charlatans.



The recovery of our ancient and transcendental truths have to be recovered carefully and without prejudice to secure the hope for a much brighter future.

I don't find your article important I think it is a rediculous distraction aimed at covering up the real truth of the matter, both sides are inherently wrong and this is dangerous because the human race simply does not have time for this kind of crap.

Both religious extremism and false logic are to be discarded, then and only then can the real work begin. "

[Frater SI]

Both religious extremism and false logic are to be discarded, then and only then can the real work begin.

I think that is a very valid point I have no idea what this n00b was thinking blind faith I geuss? Its the same thing with Richard Dawkins I actualy enjoy his banter with the christians he produces some very valid scientific and "rationale" questions but he is just the flipside of the same fundamentalist coin.

[Amur]

Now that is very silly. I don't really believe that one can use ones powers to actually harm another human being unless the other human being willingly approves to it. And besides if the other guy is laughing, he's well above anykind of magick with that kind of atmosphere. Even the forcefullest of most spells fails if there is even a little drop or scent of love included.

What I really don't understand with Sexual Tantra is the motion that ones partner becomes the whole universe and what not. While this works with the TwinStar, in Tantra it breaks down because another human is not equivalent to the whole universe. The TwinStar is different as it works on whole different levels in the first place. While Sexual Tantra might be great in exploring each others Beings, I don't think that it should be confused to include everyone in existence (as is what happened with my own 'Tantric Path'). For some reason the forces of the world concluded that it was too dangerous to pursue this path and corrupted it in everykind of way, which is kind of weird.

Why would anyone want to kill anyone else in the first place? In ones own mind it's quite ok to conquer it back to oneself, but to physically kill another should be quite above the capabilities of any 'powers'. And besides the only sign of true powers I've ever seen was done by a Friend Spirit, who was totally in Spirit form. But even He had a great sense of humour and was certainly filled with a lot of Love so I don't think that He would go around killing anyone :laugh:

That's why I kind of laugh at the "Belief" things. While I know that Belief in itself can be very important as that can be a way to transcend things on a physical level and let the Higher Consciousness take over. But when the Spirit showed me the miracle of igniting a candle, I didn't have to believe in it. The Spirit Friend merely laughed at me and said to me that "Try to ignite the candle", and then I went into His show and it started smoking and my body got terrified beyond apprehension at the physical impossibility of it and that's when my Friend started laughing at me alot and left the house :laugh: Brings to mind Castaneda's stories where they did the miracles and the body got terrified beyond apprehension (like shitting on oneself and what not ). This is really also why I detest that anyone would take 'personal' credit for any Miracle or what not. It's always the spirits who do it and not oneself...

While I've seen Egregore power manifest events and people telling me different things and what not, I've yet never witnessed that power move anything physically or make any other kind of 'miracle' happenings, quite the difference from the true world forces.

[Naomi]

The basis of Tibetan workings is that your body contains the entire universe, each and every one of us is a perfect replica of it, even if some things are "summarized" into a condensed animalistic form, not of the gods. SO I don't know what to tell you.

A liver cell could be a star system, couldn't it? From that perspective it become viable. Bring in sequences like cell nutrient absorption and the electrical current of the body as well as the blood flow and you have an living analogy of universe, arising from the Tao itself, actually seeded by it and ultimately an expression of completion.

As for your less evolved humans, a bud is still a flower, even if it is not in bloom, yes? And a flower is on its way to becoming fruit, and so on...

It's spring, I'm into gardening analogies now...

I do not believe spirits have that much power Amur, I believe humans have access to untold wealth while incarnated, i have talked about this in reference to penetrating the system and that's just the way it is, I can take credit for my own miracles readily as I am a master of my body and I know what it can do, along with the powerful alliances I form with so-called spirits as well. In my case I think they are really terribly awesome physical beings and not so much anything supernatural at all. I do not believe in the supernatural.

[Amur]

Indigo Children are all the Center points of the universe. It is embedded and inscribed into their physical center point of the brain (not the dreamy third eye), but a physical imprintation from eternity itself. In this way that vibe can never be corrupted by anyone.

[Naomi]

Oh, I see. So would you say I was an indigo, then, or not?

[Amur]

Oh, I see. So would you say I was an indigo, then, or not?

Dunno, you probably know better yourself. I know that I'm a shaman-music-indigo child preparing things for the Crystal children that are already beginning to incarnate on this planet. The most common characteristics for Indigo Children is their power and rage to destroy things. With things I mean the societal structures and what not that stands in our way. Another common characteristic is our auric color which is indigo. Many of us has gone through alot of shit since we incarnated here, being frowned upon by basically everyone and the society and what not. Many more had their lives destroyed by opposing forces and so on.

Here's a site and forum for Indigo Children: http://indigosociety.com/