ae911truth.org

[m1thr0s]

wow. anybody who hasn't seen this stuff yet really needs to take a good look at this site. these guys have put together a huge package of evidence to show that the 911 commercial airliner attacks on the twin towers could not have been enough to bring them down in the manner that they went down...

It had to be a synchronized event between a staged attack (for an immediate political gain) and a covert demolition (for an immediate financial gain)...

This is the *shock doctrine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_doctrine)* making its debut in America (not the first time, just the first time it has been scripted from beginning to end by our own government, flushing thousands of innocent civilian lives down the drain with no impending threat...no *higher purpose* being served at all).

This much raw evidence simply can't be wrong.

see: http://www.ae911truth.org/

m1

[Apopheros]

Nice readings. Check out the Penta Lawn 2000 after the crash @ the Pentagonz
Will we ever know the truth?


http://www.thewebfairy.com/killtown/pentalawn.html

http://www.thewebfairy.com/killtown/images/pentalawn/pl16.jpg

[m1thr0s]

the forces that are destroying america right now are following an agenda, which isn't really difficult to identify once you start looking for it. these people aren't geniuses themselves...just ruthless greedy scumbags with no natural integrity of their own. but they are building on the powerful socio-economic theories of people like milton friedman and others who believe that capitalism is the only godamm thing that matters and everything else comes second, with people placing about as low on the pecking order as it gets.

if people will not look, then of course they will not see, but the pattern is about as plain as it gets once you start looking at it. It's just a little hard to believe anybody could be quite that rotted out at their core, although why that should be hard to imagine is anyone's best guess...there's certainly nothing new about it in the history of governments and the scum that worms its way into power throughout all of them eventually.

everybody needs to read the shock doctrine if they want to understand what's been going on in the US for the last 50 years or so. naomi klein has done a bang-up job tracking it all down. disturbing reading of course but not as disturbing as what is going on all around us. somebody was bound to figure it out eventually...peace is not good for capitalism and capitalism is not about people...and that's what it's really all about.

it is important to remember: free enterprise and capitalism are not the same thing at all...capitalism is an impostor that wormed its way in about 100 years ago or thereabouts. it has no soul, there are no ethics attached to it...it is about as depraved a philosophy as any philosophy can get.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

yeah. The apathy on this is killer though...people....just don't care. I don't know why, but that's what I discovered when I talk about this evidence. That's a very nice site as well, I have not seen all of the evidence put together in one site like that before.

It was only a matter of time before the U.S. began raiding other countries though. The British had been doing this for centuries - some would argue they learned it from the Romans. They did it to the continent of America itself - native americans can tell you all about that. It's just the way of it.

I learned to watch overall trends and motions instead of judging countries. Watching the land and the stress on the land is a more informative task. I would move to South America myself, if I were planning on living another 200 years.

:D

good enviroment

I love how you approach the subject, that's pretty global. I wonder what's going to happen to the U.S. maybe it'll be completely chaotic. People here in Memphis are irate about the ID chip idea, for instance. (Mostly because they're Christian and believe they're from the antichrist) :)

Well....it's all going to come falling down eventually. Alot of people are going to die from famine if the food sources are not secured. I mean just all the waste in the world is the worst part. People leave food on their plate that comes from some animal, some crop, when right down the street some child is going hungry. You don't even have to look around the world for that.

When are people going to learn they have to answer to a higher authority than their measly god or government?

[m1thr0s]

The apathy on this is killer though...people....just don't care. I don't know why, but that's what I discovered when I talk about this evidence.well that's good...if they don't care then it will destroy them since it is ultimately them it is targeting...and so it won't matter then will it...

but it's also targeting a lot of other people that do care and those people had better become aware of what exactly is attacking them so they might be able to figure out how to defend themselves or just get the hell out of the way...

all the ae911truth people are asking for is an independent investigation by qualified experts...that's not a hell of a lot to ask considering how many people have died based upon this trumped up event...

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Well, I do know some people chose to get into the armed services. their reasoning was that they would rather be on the side with guns and armor when the shit hit the fan so they could perhaps be one of the good guys who would covertly be able to turn the tide and get to know the face of the enemy up close from within and report it. We do see some of those stories coming out.

Those two were Satanists also....

I also know people are really big on guns and gun laws. They feel that if the government ever pushed the limits too far it would all just blow over because everyone in America has a gun and can defend against any kind of attack, even from within a corrupt government. If those concentration camps they were building over in California and other states are real, then we definately have reason to be concerned. I think there's two major forces playing tug of war in the government. One is very well meaning and the other is so outrageously pennypinching and egotistical they will destroy the world for life as we know it.

Then others, who don't like guns, and don't believe that gun control is definately a part of this propaganda control campaign, feel that a huge depression is coming and that you should stockpile food.

Everyone should have a zombie backpack (aka bugout bag) (I don't) but I should...you never know when the next zombie outbreak is going to hit.

Michael Moore's film was very well thought out but way too anti-gun for me, and I thought Al Gore's movie was awesome. Between this that and the other, I can't really think of how to attack the problem on my own except by spreading the word for now...

[m1thr0s]

disclosure is our very best defense. why do you think there has been so much secrecy surrounding the Iraq campaign? It's a covert operation from the highest levels on down and they fear the hell out of disclosure...

whether they care or not, most americans still will not sanction outright criminality at the highest levels of government...they know it is not in their best interests if nothing else.

secretly we expect a little of this but there is a line and when that line gets crossed it has to come down...this administration has crossed way over that line and have invested billions of dollars just covering their tracks.

so disclosure matters...

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

Hmm ok well those are good points, I guess I will do that, it does make people feel very uncomfortable talking about it. Not everyone, but for people who have something 'invested' in the status quo like a decent paying job and car, house, they just want things to stay the same, I get the feeling they're scared of being singled out by their terrorist squads or something. Creepy, isn't it?

I've never been one to shut my mouth on anything though...

[m1thr0s]

fear is always an important part of the control game...

and in truth, there is a lot to fear here. but passive resistance can assume all kinds of forms...you don't have to throw yourself in front of the tanks as they roll in and this is very often the least effective resistance anyway...

but people need to be thinking more about the creative ways they can resist this shit and be using information technology and everything else at their disposals in achieving that resistance...

becoming aware is the hardest part...after that things just tend to fall into place.

"they've got the guns, but we've got the numbers"---Jim Morrison

and those numbers, by the way, aren't just limited to head count...everything is built upon them and can be rebuilt upon them as well.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

So what you're saying is once people become aware this shit will just all fall into place?

[m1thr0s]

huh?

no...that's not what I said. I said the ways in which a person may elect to resist an oppressor tend to become apparent through the process of becoming aware. This will vary from person to person and it should vary...diversity is a good thing and a hard target to take out. Some may use their art, some may write or paint or speak out. Awareness is a synchronistic sort of thing so once you commit to becoming aware at one level it tends to ripple out to all other levels...

It isn't hard to visualize how this works.

Fear is like this too so you have to decide at some point how you will choose to live.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

I understand. So what are you going to do next? Considering you're aware...

[m1thr0s]

I don't know yet...but people need to look at the facts regarding the actual 911 event itself since the government's version of the story makes the "magic bullet" theory look like exact science by comparison...

there is only one way on earth a heavily reinforced high-rise can plummet to earth absolutely clean, straight into its own footprint at the natural speed of gravity. It has to be professionally engineered to do just that...it has to be "demolished" with synchronized high explosives taking out the main frame while the shell collapses straight down on itself, leaving a nearly perfect pile of debris at the bottom, easy to clean up and haul away...

Fire can't do it...earthquakes, tidal waves, bombs...no other force known to man can cause a steel reinforced building to collapse the exact way these buildings did...the real experts are all in perfect agreement.

So the first thing is...people need to take a look at what they are saying.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

I heard most of this like two years ago

I used to run myspace bulletins on it

nobody really seemed to be paying attention though, like I said...I don't know...maybe. I gave up trying and just focused on magick.

[m1thr0s]

sure. magick. but magick isn't just one thing and it's a piss-poor excuse for being ignorant of the world you live in...

The advantage of magick is that you can work on yourself and make that your main focus in things and that's fair in my view...there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

but it shouldn't be taken as something apart from life or it's just a daydream and an escapism. magick should make you smart enough and tough enough to handle more reality than most non-magickal folk can manage.

note: 2 years ago there probably wasn't quite enough evidence compiled to reconstruct the whole event blow-by-blow. They've got that now and more experts are coming on board every day. They are probably afraid too...at least some of them. The scope of what has probably occurred here is staggering...it is so completely callous and self-serving that the human mind can barely comprehend it...yet at this time, the facts are all supporting the likelihood that our own government conspired to take these buildings out exactly as it occurred...staged the *attack* and everything. The real *triangle of evil* currently does its business from the oval office.

but before anything can be concluded we first have to know how these buildings could have done what they did.

Thus far, no explanation given follows the known laws of physics...none that is, but one.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

I'm not ignorant, I just stopped caring, I was saying to myself "let it all fall to ruin" I didn't care. I still don't I don't care about the people working in the WTC, they were just corporate assholes. The people in Iraq were murderers and religious fanatics poisoning the world all the same. It's people and life isn't going to end just because the human race wipes itself out.

I don't believe that's going to happen. Instead I think it's going to really become a beautiful situation after all of the dust from the skirmishing settles. It probbaly won't be America as we know it then either.

It's too late to wake up. I know it's sorry to hear but it's true....

[m1thr0s]

It's never too late to wake up...that's just emotions talking.

The Iraq war has thus far cost the US over 3 trillion dollars and is entirely predicated on an attack that may have never occurred by an enemy that may have never existed. Sure, we know the bit players were linked to Bin Ladin...who has conveniently never been caught.

Even he probably doesn't know the whole truth but he knows enough that the powers that be can't risk him telling what he knows. He will never be captured alive in my view. They may eventually kill him but they can't risk him disclosing what he knows.

m1

[Naomi]

Uh yeah, but that doesn't change the fact we're in the largest mass extinction the planet has ever experienced. You're not listening to me. Bin Ladin, who's that? Another fucking human. They're all the same to mother nature...We have much bigger problems than who's holding the leash and who's playing doggy....

It's all coming down.

My emotions...are my business...

[m1thr0s]

if all you can do is drag this topic into some morbid projection of life naomi than please leave the topic for others to reflect upon or respond if they like.

This isn't about you and you don't have to do anything at all...that's not the point of this thread. I don't really give a shit what you do or don't do. I have gone over the information these folks have presented and I think they have it right. I think others need to take a look at their presentation and decide for themselves.

why should that become some sordid discussion about the end of all life etc? That's another topic altogether. I don't have the answers to that and I don't think you do either.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

I just stated a fact, I know all about extinctions, I used to study this shit for years - Permian especially as well as the Mesozoic crash at the end of the Cretaceous famous for when the dinosaurs just dissapeared -


Scientists are warning that by the end of this century, the planet could lose up to half its species, and that these extinctions will alter not only biological diversity but also the evolutionary processes itself. They state that human activities have brought our planet to the point of biotic crisis.
In 1993, Harvard biologist E.O. Wilson estimated that the planet is losing 30,000 species per year - around three species per hour. Some biologists have begun to feel that the biodiversity crisis dubbed the "Sixth Extinction" is even more severe, and more imminent, than Wilson had expected.


http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Largest_mass_extinction_in_65_million_years_underw ay,_scientists_say

So I'll leave you to your 9-11 conspiracy but as anyone can see, clearly this warrants more attention than some historical flash in the pan, and that includes all of us.

As I said from my reflections, having already gone over the material I have determined through my own calculations that the issues with 9/11 are not the foremost issues on the frontier horizon. We are instead more focused on life than ever before once we begin turning our attentions towards the enviroment.

edit

I don't mean to divert the thread I just want to be clear what I meant, I hate it when people call me emotional over something that is clearly not emotional and based in raw facts I have a firm grasp on. Even if we all suddenly become perfect peace loving freedom fighters, we're still headed towards the edge of the cliff....oops hang on now...

[m1thr0s]

maybe you should stop trying to play the expert on everything naomi since you really are not making any sense.

We are instead more focused on life than ever before once we begin turning our attentions towards the enviroment.right...911 has impacted the *environment* in some pretty drastic ways.

There used to be a country called Iraq - home to roughly 7000 years of cultural evolution. Since 911 it has been systematically reduced to a pile of bleeding rubble.

a bad day for the environment all in all...

note: this whole either/or scenario is all in your head btw...I am not asserting that becoming aware of this 911 situation should imply giving up something else.
I have no idea where that is coming from but it is certainly not my point of view.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

I'm not playing the expert on anything, I'm stating such simple facts even a moron could understand them. We are in the middle of the largest extinction that has ever occurred on the planet, according to world renowned scientists.

The crisis is so huge, and so impending, it will make 9-11 look like a volcanic eruption. It's humanity that is getting overly emotional about the war, because there are other humans involved.

I really don't think it's that crucial. I don't think there will be much of a civilization to appreciate their culture if the ecosystem collapses - which it can do, and will, it's almost inevitable....especially when we examine the rate of extinctions.

I'm not sure what human archaeological interests have to do with the enviroment anyways. Nature has always quickly overthrown civilizations with vine and jungle, just look at Angkor or the shakti carved temples in India...

[m1thr0s]

start a new topic naomi that addresses this global extinction issue.

that's not what this topic is about and since it has nothing to add here I am not going to allow it to continue any more.

m1

[m1thr0s]

One of the things I find interesting about the ae911truth.org site is that it is being spearheaded by actual experts in the fields of architecture and engineering, who are not so interested in proving any conspiracy theories as they are interested in an *official* explanation of the events that occurred that actually makes some kind of sense, since they have given ample evidence to demonstrate that the official explanation as it stands does not.

Traditionally, one of the main reasons dictatorships attack the intellectual elite in their own countries is simply that it is so much harder to fool people who know how things work. Covert political maneuverings are chiefly aimed at hoodwinking the downtrodden and the poorly educated since they are the first to roll over quietly, lacking either the means or the knowledge to provide much of a resistance. What they usually do have is raw numbers but so long as these remain confounded they do not amount to much of a threat to disreputable leaders - whereas the intellectual elite does.

We know that a tremendous amount of time and energy has been invested by our own government to completely control the popular media since this is the opium of the masses and is especially useful at brainwashing huge numbers of people all at the same time. But again, it only really works very well against people who know very little to begin with. Unscrupulous economic practices don't fool expert economists and covert demolitions don't fool architects, engineers and demolitions experts. Everybody else can be hoodwinked since just about any bizarro thing you tell them will tend to make about as much sense as anything else...and ultimately most people don't want to have to think about any of this stuff anyway so they are eager to believe whatever confusing line of crap they are fed.

What is occurring with the ae911truth site is a kind of strategic oversight that may ultimately be indicative of how the information age itself is evolving and will perhaps continue to evolve so as to provide an unexpected buffer against these kinds of crimes in the future...this still remains to be seen but it is interesting from this standpoint alone. If they were relying upon conventional media to make their case they would have been stopped already but they are not, which means that the internet is still a little too big to be controlled right now. During WW's I and II it was typically ham radio that could not altogether be stopped and a huge amount of resistance was orchestrated through that vehicle...today it is the internet and even though there is a major push going on to control it, it appears to yet be out of control and is thus about the only place you are ever likely to see or hear the truth of anything.

So I am interested in how this all plays out as an evolutionary development...can truth survive via the internet against all efforts to stop it? If it can, we may yet have another chapter to play out in the ongoing war against tyranny, which, as usual, has attached itself to the richest prize it could find so that now America is the real focus of its designs...beyond America is the global Corporate Empire which is still not quite ready to declare its own self-sovereignty being parasitically attached to nation-states, albeit just barely. Certainly giant corporations like Exxon don't give a rats ass about America but have to maintain a certain front they would very much like to dispense with.

So I really don't know if the ae911truth movement will succeed or not but I am very interested in its progress from several points of view. On the one hand I think they really are telling the exact truth as they know it but perhaps more importantly than this...they are surviving the telling of that truth, which actually should not be happening...I can only guess that too many eyes are turned on them at this point to stop it. Rather the attempt will be made to ignore it and pretend as though it weren't there at all or else represented nothing at all but this may backfire and if it does then something kind of exciting will have happened. The Information Age itself will have scored its first significant victory against the forces of Restriction...a trend that may yet be on the rise if it does in fact prevail.

broad (decentralized) networks constitute the biggest threat to centralized hierarchies and the internet is all about broad networks so it will be interesting to monitor this thing over the coming months and years. I don't really doubt for an instant that what they are saying is true...what amazes me is that they are able to spread that truth without being shut down. I can only hope they have a few really good IT people in their corner since they really should anticipate a major effort will soon be launched to do just that. It will be interesting to see just how on top of things these a's & e's really are. They are going to need to be really good at ducking and dodging bullshit power-plays and keep on bouncing back...I do hope they understand that. Thus far they have probably mostly been lucky. There is a common arrogance that permeates these stinking autocracies that probably convinced them that nobody would give a shit about these *eggheads* anyway and up to a point they are right...but their point may be slipping away. Time will tell I guess...

m1

[Amur]

There used to be a country called Iraq - home to roughly 7000 years of cultural evolution. Since 911 it has been systematically reduced to a pile of bleeding rubble.


Well, looking at a historical perspective, ancient sumeria and their system and pantheon were demolished quite well by Jehova and on top of that alot of truths they contained was obfuscated with the bible (all the while they started ridding the world of other native cultural truths). I don't necessarily go against this but merely making an observation as a single God CAN be more beneficial and powerful if used in the right way, but that depands that the upper-power also behaves.

I can feel alot of the ugly shit that is going on behind the scenes in USA and it doesn't really feel too good to be honest. One thing I know is that I would've probably shot myself if I had gotten born there. I do find it kind of funny that they blew up their own towers and got most of the world to believe their story about it. Well atleast it gave them the chance to invade iraq(for oil) and afghanistan(to further establish the opium trade). Such a lovely world...

[m1thr0s]

I have no way to support this idea that jehova somehow conquered sumer and monotheism is hardly the sole province of judaism anyway.

conspiracists would have typically come up with this kind of scenario anyway, which is really just a part of the whole problem with these kinds of theories. Only very rarely do they bother to connect all the dots required to make them plausible, even though they may be right 50% of the time or better...

so it doesn't help much when a more responsible cut of people comes along attempting to cry foul on a bogus technical explanation by the government...people feel like they've heard it a thousand times before when in fact there has very rarely been so much real evidence on the table.

this was the boldest test of the shock doctrine yet to be implemented. They've got to know, if they can get away with this crap, there isn't anything they can't do. The groundwork has already been laid for supposed nuclear attacks by terrorists for instance, just in case nobody had noticed this...

If things really are as rotten as they appear to be I really don't know that there is any stopping it at this point, but that's the whole point really...we just don't know. Just like the situation with fossil fuels and the fact that the oil companies are deliberately playing stupid to buy more time instead of doing the smart thing and going all-out for pollution-free energy technologies. roughly ½% of oil revenues goes into energy alternatives right now and the bulk of that goes into overpriced bogus-science studies defining all the reasons it can't be achieved. In point of fact it can be achieved but not at the ghastly profit margins they are currently enjoying from the global petroleum fuel crisis...

there's no incentive and our own government doesn't look like it will be inclined to provide any that actually works. So they are playing russian roulette at everybody else's expense since no gun is being pointed at themselves on any of this. They have the arrogance to believe they can provide the bail-out at the last possible minute if need be and to hell with anybody's quality of life in the meantime. It's no more complicated than that so it may in fact be too late already and we may just be waiting on the whole thing to blow up in their own godamm faces before we can think about rebuilding anything at all.

The problem with that way of thinking is that it is defeatist. We don't really know that this can't be turned around. The odds just happen to be worse than bad.

m1thr0s

[frater luciferi]

yeah well 9-11 was inspired by a long line of "allowed" incidents like say pearl harbor or the burning of the reichstag. either way iraq is the more poorly planned and operated war in us history..but hey! lots of fat corporations are getting fatter at the cost of the american taxpayer..and it only costs
$333 billion dollars a day! lol ...

[m1thr0s]

I think we need to develop an *astral mirror*...something like a *fat mirror* except that it shows you what you really look like on the astral plane...

In Adolph Hitler's own mind, we has a godamm patriot, right?

Bush no doubt imagines he's on some sort of clandestine mission for Jesus...

Maybe more like the Human Test box from Dune...that would be fun...

Ok Mr. Chaney...put your hand in the box...

seems reasonable to expect leaders of humans to at least be human, if they cannot be *praeterhuman*...

These cowards would never submit to such a test of course, so then we could just disqualify them outright and save ourselves a world of hurt.

m1

[Naomi]

Wait don't put us seers out of a job....

Oh nevermind there's no demand anyways.

[m1thr0s]

yeah well...I may just be dreaming but who knows...kirlian photography, biophotons et al...we may be closer to such a measuring devise than we think...

you can't tell me that Rumsfeld's aura isn't f*cked up enough to make you sick just looking at it...I know...I've seen it...plug that shit into a database of millions of known archetypes and you could actually get a kind of composite character from his own godamm energy signature.

bad pazuzu...bad dog...no more bones for you...:mad::laugh:

It might be especially useful to be able to accurately register the actual amount of innocent blood on a person's hands stepping into public office...

ghost meter or something...things leave a trail...

m1

[Naomi]

I don't know, I never looked. I try to keep to myself so as not to attract attention.

I like your idea though. The human body is a fairly fine tuned aura viewing device in itself, once the inhabiting soul is trained how to use it I think.

Whats a praeterhuman?

[m1thr0s]

Whats a praeterhuman?Crowleyese...from the latin prefix *praeter* (also preter) = *past, beyond* + *human* = praeterhuman...

a viable alternative to the sullied *transhuman* terminology generally denoting a more natural evolutionary transmutation...

Aiwass was said to be a praeterhuman intelligence who once lived as a man and went on to become a transcended master etc...

m1

[deviadah]

9/11 = 911!

:yes:

It was an event that made it possible for a lot of shit to happen as far as rights and laws are concerned (as was the case with Pearl Harbor and similar events). Even if it was an inside job or not doesn't really matter... what matters is that it made the masses blind and ignorant so it was possible for the ruling elite to fuck 'em all in the ass!

American patriotism was used as a weapon against its own people to subjugate them further into slavery and other non-constitutional situations!

And I am sorry if someone out there doesn't believe this... if you don't you deserve the fascism coming up your ass!

Oh, don't think this crap only hits North America... same bollocks going on all over the world.

Islam is not the enemy, and terrorism began when God threw Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden!

:cool:

[m1thr0s]

among the many hundreds of incriminating facts on this issue is the fact that the previous owner of the Twin Towers (as well as bldg. 7) had applied several times to have these buildings demolished only to be turned down due to their asbestos content, which would be released into the air if not removed first (as happened anyway). The cost of having this problem fixed enough to qualify for (legal) demolition would have exceeded 10 billion dollars, so these buildings were economically condemned already. It's all in the 2-hour video...that's the one to watch.

A shitload of money was saved in this so-called attack - not to mention the outstanding corporate loans that had to be canceled, since all the records were housed at this location, conveniently enough...huge sums of money owed by companies like Enron, for instance...all wiped out in the attack...

anyway...the more you look at it, the more apparent it all gets. The only thing protecting the guilty at this point is that people won't look at the facts and deal with them...they didn't actually cover their tracks very well on this. They aren't geniuses, like I said...just ruthless, greedy, thugs...

History will eventually record the facts correctly anyway since the logical gaps that remain are simply too glaring to be left unresolved and too much history hangs in the balance on this. Major national directives followed immediately on its heels based upon a set of lies that even the White House itself now makes jokes about at private fundraisers etc. This event will have to be resolved up or down no matter what, even though the individuals that orchestrated it will almost certainly have died off by natural causes by then.

so you know, if you don't care or whatever that's pretty much your own problem. Some of us can walk and chew gum at the same time and whether we can or cannot actually do anything about this isn't really the point...that has to be decided later. Getting clear on what is really going on here doesn't require anybody to commit to anything but a clear understanding itself. A whole lot of destruction is wrapped up in this event which is still escalating daily. None of the current contenders for the presidency has been willing to touch this issue, but whether we stay or don't stay in Iraq, get out slowly or quickly, make reparations or don't make reparations, is all logically rooted in what has actually occurred or not occurred to begin with. The current administration would like to completely disavow the whole connection as somehow moot at this point and act instead as though America is now ethically committed to a never-ending series of crimes having acted inappropriately to begin with...which is exactly the logic we hear coming from these shitheads...the very same leadership that promised everybody this engagement would only last about 6 weeks and cost no more than 1.7 billion dollars tops.

m1

[Naomi]

Ok. You make some valid points. I don't personally believe in a clean solution to this. I think the United States is going to fall hard, and the only thing that can save it right now is a Democratic majority. I think Clinton would be the best president.

Here's an interesting interview with former president Bill Clinton:

YouTube - Clinton

[m1thr0s]

lol...go Bill...

yeah, I don't imagine any clean solution is possible either, but it may be useful to distinguish between a parasitic element that has crept its way into the US Government and the US Government itself because these two things are actually not the same. We tend to hear that generalization a lot without anyone ever questioning it but it's not actually true.

It's one thing to make stupid errors in good faith...that's more indicative of government in general. It's quite another thing to do everything in your power to skate around the laws of the US just to push your own covert economic agenda across with no regard for the cost in human lives.

That is simple criminality passing itself off as imperial privilege and that's the whole damn signature of the Bush administration and several administrations before his...this hasn't happened overnight or anything, and it won't be an easy job eradicating it by an stretch of the imagination. In all probability they will have to blow it so badly that nobody is left able to deny it and that can only mean a huge disaster too big to sweep under the rug.

It is a horrendous injustice that we are all being forced to play out *the last days* as embedded in the Christian psyche which means that consciously or unconsciously, many people want this mess to happen as a necessary prelude to the second coming of Christ... And of course, if the latter assumption turns out to be erroneous then we all got screwed for no good reason at all.

m1

[Naomi]

I hate the book of revelations. I also hate Hillary Clinton but I think she can fix this mess. I have no faith in the world righting itself easily, or in any way on America's shoulders. This is all just a prediction so I don't want anyone to take me seriously...now....is the only time that is real. People *should* live their lives as if nothing bad is on the horizon. It should always be moment to moment. I do thank you for sharing your thoughts on this matter in a good way m1thr0s.

[deviadah]

I also hate Hillary Clinton but I think she can fix this mess.
When something is broken it is sometimes better to get a new thing, than mend the thing that is bust - as it probably will break again (like an old car)!

:cool:

[Naomi]

Ok let me just go out and buy a new economy...

[m1thr0s]

When something is broken it is sometimes better to get a new thing, than mend the thing that is bust - as it probably will break again (like an old car)!I suspect that what has happened here is that capitalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism) itself needs a major rewrite. As it stands it makes sense at the level of money but makes no sense at the level of culture. It is an economic philosophy that maintains a very narrow view of *profit* itself and this short-sightedness has been both a strength and a weakness. It is a little startling how few players have really impacted capitalism as a philosophy, considering the profound impact it has had on culture worldwide. From Adam Smith (in the 1700's) to Milton Friedman (today), there has hardly been a dozen major players in the development of this whole socio-economic game plan.

That just strikes me a very odd. No one has ever attempted to create limited communities for testing purposes to see how they would work before implementing the latest ideas on a grand scale with who-knows-what kind of consequences. We've all been forcibly drafted test rats in whatever the current trends might happen to be. It would be perfectly possible with computer technology to run various economic theories through simulated test programs to see what their flaws might be, for instance, yet no one seems to have come up with any such rational testing strategy...

So I do think that a new economic model is ultimately required here. Getting anybody to support that idea, minus all the *animal testing* seems virtually impossible.

m1thr0s

[frater luciferi]

the psycology of mass media marketing on a corporate scale was invented basically by freuds nephew..abeit im sure the understanding of the sexual irony of the current used in propogation purpuses. propigation of profits no less. of which i dont really have any qualm..another more devious use of freudian psycobabble in memetics of a more facists ideagog was the NS in germany. is it any irony that american banks funded the ns party during the revelation that after a severe economic "abyss" where money was being burnt like paper because it was'nt worth enough to buy it lol..and they needed something to stoke their stoves.

so i am astounded how facistic ideation could manifest in people of power in lue of the bushites-- which have serious ties to oil in texas and the middle east..osama bin ladins brother died in a plane crash, and was a buisness partner to george w. bush. needless to say that his father was in the CIA during the iran/contra scandal..ie the whole using narcotics to raise funds for the contras in the southern or central american county of i forgot.

my favorite conspiracy theory is the whole CIA narcotraficking ones, wherein the conspiring forces are involved in obscence behaviors that would make pablo escobar blush in his overestimation. such was heroin in the seventies with air america. although LSD was a pharmacutical at its initial inception into the general populace. "air america" ..they made a movie about it with mel gibson..who i forgive for "jesus christ the snuff film" for releasing "appocolyptico". why ol Q never showed up in the movie still

mr w. bush was arrested and released for possession of over an ounce of cocaine while he was in college. he was lucky of the fact he was a white man and it was powdered. thats not a racist drug at all lol. but he did deregulate energie for Enron traders to reak havok upon californias poor electric consumers. their is a video online of george bush and his father thanking eron for being so good to one of the biggest oil familys in texas.

making billions of billions of dollars in a well though out "racket".
now haliburton is making billions(of whom cheney was on the board) doing services that they have military personnel trained to do and they do a "shitty" job. doing errands of misuse of government funds that would make the la cosa nostra green with envy in their creativity..

got a flat tire? on a 80,000 dollar truck? blow it up and make the government buy a new one because we dont want to buy spare tires..or spare engine parts.

and there was the whole KBH trucking scandal as well.. 13 american civilians died who werent informed wat a black or red "signified" road was or what the terms meant--well the road they had taken was zoned pretty much "hostile" with heavy presence of armed insurgents.. their was reputedly 50 insugents who attacked the trucks. but the men were misiformed of how the fueltrucks they were driving would be driving down a long stretch of dangerous road.

either way the key thing i would like to remember is that

1. the taliban attacked the world trade center before.
2. they were under observation of the us federal government
3. their is a list of names of those to watch
4. a report was given but not read about the possibilitie of another attempt.

5. becuase of teh elimination of the taliban..the nothern alliance have power in afghanistan..which have a corner in the market for HEROIN now. to such an extent one cant imagine.

6. iraq has nothing to do with the bin ladins.. they were flown out by the fedies shortly after 9-11 as aparently they like hanging out in DC with oil lobbyist and old buisness partners. besides our military already trained the taliban military tactics to combat the flux of the kremlins war for afghanistan.

7. Vietnom was very profitable for corporations. the bushes have stock in arms companies.

the occupation of iraq costs 333 million dollars a day.

[m1thr0s]

Obama has the current cost upwards to 400 million/day now...it just keeps getting more expensive and it's completely insane...it's not just that we don't belong there, it's that we have ourselves created a situation so completely depraved that we have mobilized the entire middle east (spreading to much of europe) against us and that won't go away...it can't...it's got nowhere else to go...

people in the US just don't have the slightest clue the extent to which they have been lied to while the media blackout that's been going on there for over 5 years now has effectively prevented any major media coverage worth anything at all...the CIA has openly boasted that it effectively owns the US media at this point and they aren't exaggerating (at least so far as major network news)...

Wanna know what's really going on in Iraq? read this guy's stuff: Nir Rosen (http://www.nirrosen.com/blog/) he's one of the very few ground zero reporters out there who isn't wasting his talents working for FOX or CNN or MSN or any of these worthless fronts... If you want the truth, you've got to go to the freelancers anymore, and he's one of the best.

It's sort of strange. I've reached a place where I feel like I know what the f*ck is going on in occultism and I'm reasonably comfortable with where I am at. My attention is turning more to world events these days. There's really no reason occultists should be oblivious to what's going on around them, save only that you have to get your inner house together first sometimes. It puts you in a much better position to deal with all the godamm insanity without losing yourself in it all. It's a better footing and not so gullible...if you have survived occultism, you probably know your shit from your oatmeal, since you sure as hell have seen enough shit.

I don't believe in democratic solutions per se. Democracies can be manipulated much more easily than people think...by only ever giving people a bogus set of choices for instance, just for starters. By manipulating the rules by which these so-called choices can be asserted. The information age is going to see the rise of something else I think, though I don't know yet what to call it exactly...it has more to do with global networking though...it may be how the so-called *secret kings* actually come to power.

m1

[Naomi]

I really like Nir Rosen's articles, thanks for pointing them out.

I remember one night I was dealing with an invocation of the middle east, I think it was Afghanistan. The collective thoughts of millions of people gets melted into this averaged intelligence that manifests like an alloy. Anyways I found myself in this state and then I decided to explore it. You can...or I can split my consciousness between the two states of mind and so observe the turmoil while remaining distinctly above it, which is something Ningishzidda taught me how to master, although I have had the ability since I was a kid, I just couldn't do the extremes like this until last year after doing the mirrors.

I felt extreme fear - not terror but this overwhelming animalistic sense of hopelessness and survival. There's nothing left except desperation and a sense of beingness that isn't percieving the world with any kind of intellectual strength at all, curiosity is geared towards finding safety and peace and nothing more. Then I sensed starvation too, and lack of nutrition, and that was the greatest influence aside from the ever present sense of danger.

Then the United States became apparent (in my mind) and there was definately loads of fear towards them, yet it was miscalculated - what the US is actually doing and what the US people actually feel towards the people of the middle east are two different things. I know that most of the soldiers there that I have personally met and spoken too are actually good people.

The main interest in the US was towards acquiring food and security, and then behaving well with regard to the fact that the US was a dangerous foe but a potential assurance of peace.

And then it was over, I was tired of the game and I had figured out the solution to the problem...the US needs to take a hands on approach at the level of the women and children of Iraq and Afghanistan and begin at the outskirts of the country, remaining present in the country for as long as it takes. There needs to be an island of peace somewhere in the country though, maintained by the US *people* and not the Iraq people who are in this survival mode of thinking. They cannot continue to allow the country to cannibalize itself like some kind of beast eating itself alive, which is exactly what it's doing, it's like a beaten dog or something, and we're responsible for it now that we rescued it from its master, so I guess that's where I stand.

Nothing I need to worry about though....I have bigger problems on my mind.

[m1thr0s]

The best and most direct solutions come through power itself and this is one of the things that occultism can, potentially, address...though for the most part it hasn't much excelled at this to date.

things evolve and nothing remains stagnant forever but we are still dealing with something that can only happen if and when it does happen...wars have often turned on the development of a new kind of weapon and whole economies can be redefined based upon breakthrough technologies and so on.

The only trouble with any of this is that it hinges upon the unpredictable behavior of unknown individuals doing completely unexpected things. So it makes for a pleasant fantasy, but only rarely intrudes upon reality itself. I tend to have a great deal of faith in the unexpected, but because it is a kind of faith, I also do not altogether trust it.

m1thr0s

[Naomi]

You speak like there is another viable option...that remains to be seen. a real solution is available but people arn't going to have time to implement it if they don't realize the absurdity of the situation.

We're all moved by some greater force, but we can choose that force, the current we travel. There's no reason to believe all of this stuff in Iraq outweighs all of the magical workers in the world. I see less of occultists on Tv than war but that doesn't mean I havn't met hundreds of working magicians/medicine people. I know they make a real difference because I observe the power of the ceremonies, I don't need gauges to see that.

So faith, sure, you know, it may be but there's real evidence to support it and the power of the absolute always wins...I don't need faith to tell me that.

I know exactly what is going on in this world and where I need to be at, that's enough for me for now, but now you m1thr0s, you should probably be pretty good at overseeing entire planets, tell me, what would you do about Iraq/Afghanistan right now...

[m1thr0s]

the power of the absolute only very much pertains to the absolute...I actually don't much give a shit about any of that...it's not at risk anyway.

I am also not saying that the Irag situation outweighs "all of the magical workers in the world", but I also have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

I know exactly what is going on in this world and where I need to be at, that's enough for me for now, but now you m1thr0s, you should probably be pretty good at overseeing entire planets, tell me, what would you do about Iraq/Afghanistan right now...what I would do is contingent upon what I could do...but if it were entirely up to me the first thing I would do is pull America and all its poisonous bits completely out. The next thing I would do is commence a major purge on the American political machine itself. This should have happened at the end of the Vietnam epic...the entire system that brought us into that mess should have been canned and better than half of its players thrown in jail for the duration of their godamm lives...that's what any ethical leader would have done but we no longer have ethical leaders. America hasn't had one of those in a very long time.

Democracies need both incentives and consequences for operating within certain ethical/efficiency guidelines and the US system has neither installed. No government that is doing its job properly should ever require more than a 10% taxation on its people at any time, for any reason...just as a quick example. Governments that exceed this standard have already disqualified themselves from any worthiness to lead. 10% is more than enough and if it is not there should still be no exceptions...this is a performance standard that means something has become internally corrupted if it is somehow not enough to make ends meet.

m1

[Naomi]

As well as the balanced nature of the absolute, the system must come back into balance, eventually, the change will eventually process it to reach bliss and peace, though not at the cost of life, because *life* is the reason for any of this, it's abhorrent to the way for life to be eradicated when it is still productive.

Life will go on for as long as life wills itself. However, it's a long hard climb to the top for any planet on the brink of destruction (of life). We're so far at the bottom of the well it does seem terrible.

I believe that the system is exactly where it was supposed to go and we're all here because we knew it was going to be like this. Coming to grips with why this may be so and what we have at our disposal to put towards the cause is the only real solution. I believe we all have something that ultimately serves to further the aims of the absolute, we must look within to find out what that is and even a child knows what that is instinctively, which is why I value children's opinions much more than adult's, you know, it's still fresh in their minds from when they were not alive.

[m1thr0s]

I believe that the system is exactly where it was supposed to go and we're all here because we knew it was going to be like this.well, as you say, this is a belief...I can't say I share that belief myself.

m1

[Naomi]

omg I don't know what to do it all seems so horrible. I should just roll over and die now.

[m1thr0s]

???
I can't see how that would help anything...

but it's also one of the reasons I try to avoid absolutes...I think it just blows everything out of proportion. Problems created by people can ultimately be solved by people unless or until people go too far...then the whole thing falls to nature to sort things out by more drastic measures.

I don't think we're there yet but we seem to be skating along the edge...

one of the things that annoys me about most occultism as I have encountered it is a general inability to commit to any real solutions to any of the world's real problems. I feel like a lot of occultism is still hammering on the same old messianic themes only now it is no longer cool or acceptable to speak in these terms clearly and succinctly...so it all falls into some sort of half-spoken gibberish.

traditional mysticism is no better...what are they all really trying to say? Is it the transcendental theory that the solution to human failures is the production of some sort of perfected human being? If that is the case I think we should either shit or get off the pot as it were...it doesn't even matter if the theory is wrong so much as it matters that we do at least have a comprehensible model to attack.

Mutational Alchemy itself does in fact suggest this...that is to say...it is an essentially transhumanistic theory of human evolutionary progression. In essence it suggests that humans are not what they appear and because of this everything is necessarily out of sync with itself...that the real solution to virtually all human ills ultimately revolves around redefining human being itself. If every man and every woman is a star, and if that statement denotes a literal (rather than a metaphorical) truth of what human beings actually are, then nearly all of the trouble with humans as we find it is rooted in a general rejection of that more universal dharma, or neurogenetic destiny.

If people define themselves as dogs then they will of course behave as dogs to the best of their ability, and really, that is exactly what most people do. The definition is all laid out for them coming in so they don't have to work very hard to adopt it as real...society at large already expects it. But if that definition is actually bullshit then no matter how well the hand is played, it will always come to no good in the end. Things like an ethical treatment of others has very little real meaning to dogs, so humans invested in this model of self will never really be able to adapt to anything but the most superficial adherence to anything so lofty...so *other-worldish* as a basic human decency. And really, when it comes to it, dogs do a better job of this than people do since at least their sense of who they are is correct with their actual natures...so the lines are already drawn for them instinctively and they tend to work out more than not...not so with people. People struggle with these things constantly since their own natural bearings on who and what they are is fundamentally flawed and ineffectual.

Yet people balk at the idea of being more than they are...and they especially balk at the notion of being *god*...not just gods but actually *god* itself. It's easy to pretend to be a god...not much harder than pretending to be a rock star really. But if every human being is fundamentally god itself, we obviously have our heads buried right up our asses on this whole level of being. Where it most defeats us is at the level of personal striving since we are forever striving after things that have no actual relevance to who and what we are. So people are not actually very much motivated to get the most from what they have got...to protect, rather than defile the world they live in, to buy themselves as much time as possible towards this whole business of higher becoming.

And this is partially why political solutions alone will never be enough...human beings are the most destructive force on earth and if they will not actively strive to be something much greater than themselves, then all their other strivings will only serve to drag the whole damn house to ruin. It's a complex thing because rational beings do require proofs to build upon but with humans (striving to be dogs), no one is very much supporting the development of those proofs...nobody really even wants them!

At the collective level, it's probably all a wash. It's down to individuals at this point and the off-chance than one or maybe a few can somehow run way ahead of the pack. That path leads to power itself (where it succeeds) and this in itself could still make all the difference. But you know, who is actually going to be able to keep pace with that forward mindset on any kind of day-to-day basis? So it is difficult not to think it really is too late and perhaps it is. We still don't know for sure what might be possible by virtue of the exception to the rule however and it is still possible that this exception is the only hand we ever really had anyway.

m1

[Naomi]

but I don't have a solution, I don't want to think about it, it's too big of a problem. I'm very sensitive to suffering and it bothers me a lot when I can't do anything about it

[m1thr0s]

you can only work with what you have got...
you've probably got a lot better hand than it seems when looking at the enormity of the problem.

chances are we aren't going through anything in this world that other worlds haven't already passed through before us...maybe some of these survived it while others didn't but a whole lot of this shit could be plotted out on a computer I think if we had all the critical variables...

the situation is tenuous but I don't think it's all that rare...

m1

[Naomi]

But who is going to gather together all of this information, and who is going to build a computer to do such a thing? I don't know if anything will ever be done to deal with the earth as a whole instead of just one thing or another.

[m1thr0s]

that isn't what I meant naomi...and I don't think anybody can deal with the earth as a whole right now.
You might be able to deal with yourself as a whole and that's probably about it...

m1

[Naomi]

oh ok i'll, I'm in the process of doing that too...

[frater luciferi]

all we can do is spread seeds of truth..eventually every empire falls and hopefully when the next one rises the hand of the enlightened will finally guide the world into the aeon of horus...the age of man? dig?

[m1thr0s]

that's my take on things as well fr. luciferi. The American Empire will topple the same as all the rest...it seems to be the nature of things. I can only hope we may be in for a pleasant surprize regarding its untimely demise (which would appear to be going sooner than later), both for the world's sake as well as for Americans themselves which aren't a bad lot really...no worse than anybody else anyway and definitely deserving better than they get at the level of their government...

I have considered the phrase "people get the government they deserve" and decided it's rubbish...it just isn't true. people almost never get the government they "deserve" so long as governments take it upon themselves to do their own wills instead of the will of the people...

Perhaps we will find some way to dispense with government altogether in the end. A lot may depend on this whole notion of the *secret kings* and how that finally comes to manifest. I have no reason at all to think it's in place already...for one thing...I am quite certain I would have been contacted by now were this the case and this has simply not occurred. Whatever *secret kings* there may be are still a secret...even to themselves.

m1

[Naomi]

it won't happen unless there is an extremely large event that knocks people out of their reverie and forces them to engage this internal enginery. 9/11 was nothing compared to the force I am talking about.

Yeah, where are they? I'd think they are inside of us - as the tree. I think that is the key to it all. But you need to find someone for each sphere to awaken the tree in the physical. How are you going to get 32 people to collaborate on one magickal operation focused on the singular goal of raising the foundation of man? We havn't seen that kind of collaboration of occult ritual since, well, Egypt. Everything else since then has been aimed at raising the level of stupidity so that *rulers* of bad character can be kept in office and not held accountable for their abuse of the people.

Anyways...just thought I'd let the cat out of the bag on that one...because I'm pretty sure it's not going to happen anyways. You can't fake it, it has to be real. It would be cool though, I bet it would work too.


32

The Tao will always be beyond comprehension.
Although it seems trivial
No one in All the world can contro it.
If governments and leaders can abide in it
All beings shal gratefully behave likewise.
We would have a Heaven on Earth
And sweet rains would fall.
The people would not need to be told, They would just naturally do
what is right.
When you organize, you must of necessity use names and order.
But given that, you must also know where to leave off
naming and structuring.
Knowing when to stop, you can avoid danger.
All the World is to the Tao
As rivers flowing home to the sea.


- TTC

[Naomi]

If people define themselves as dogs then they will of course behave as dogs to the best of their ability, and really, that is exactly what most people do. The definition is all laid out for them coming in so they don't have to work very hard to adopt it as real...society at large already expects it. But if that definition is actually bullshit then no matter how well the hand is played, it will always come to no good in the end. Things like an ethical treatment of others has very little real meaning to dogs, so humans invested in this model of self will never really be able to adapt to anything but the most superficial adherence to anything so lofty...so *other-worldish* as a basic human decency. And really, when it comes to it, dogs do a better job of this than people do since at least their sense of who they are is correct with their actual natures...so the lines are already drawn for them instinctively and they tend to work out more than not...not so with people. People struggle with these things constantly since their own natural bearings on who and what they are is fundamentally flawed and ineffectual.

I see you edited post #50 m1thr0s. Unless I'm imagining things of course.
I will try to respond here...

I'm not sure how to define "dogs" it's so confusing to me because dogs are not easily defined. Wild dogs, wolves and so on are far different than people's dogs, which are often hideously mutated to become something unwholesome and threatening to nature itself. (I mean the dog kibble industry and the plethora of products for dogs produced at the expense of things for people, as well as the disgusting pollution of dog crap you see everywhere, it's gross in Paris...) I like some things about wild canines, like fox and wolf so while I've heard you use the term before I'm not sure what you mean exactly. It gets tossed around in Liber Al Vel Legis a lot more than I would like - as I said it makes no sense to me at all, even when I try to explain it through meditation. I took it to mean a spiritual seeker who is lost in the ways of the world, like a dog, harboring loyalty and obediance like a sheep but lacking the craft and cunning of a wolf. I don't know...


I bet you think my theory is bullshit but I know it would work. It would be fun too.

Anyways the business of humans becoming gods will work if society is diluted enough to foster individuality more readily, which can happen and is does remain on the horizon since we see a lot of individuality arising in the world through that, one can assume that anything ascended masters went through is part of the solution as well. The world is very very fast paced and the time it takes to sort this out needs to be addressed as well. The groundwork was laid by the previous researchers though it's all hard to sift through the garbage these days.

Overlooked by all of us, as occultists, which is scary...it is, no one wants to see the whole thing come crashing down around us.

[m1thr0s]

I grew up on the streets from my early teens. I have a whole other "urban" perception of dogs, aside from being a dragon which usually oppose dogs on principle to begin with...

there is virtually nothing about urban dogs which I like. In general it is their more ill-dignified qualities I am usually referring to, among which is an almost sponge-like adaptation to whatever their owners might happen to be like. I never met a complete asshole whose dog was not also a complete asshole etc...there was never in all of dogdom even a single dog who stopped to think, well shit, maybe being an asshole all the time isn't so cool...just because my master is an asshole, does that mean I have to be one too? forget it...dogs follow power however it has been defined for them.

I really don't much give a shit if people like dogs or not. It was just a metaphor...change it however you like. I'm sure it can be debated till hell freezes over that there are good dogs and bad and I really don't give a shit...rats have their place as well and I really don't much care for rats.

m1

[Naomi]

I love all animals, i don't like it when humans create something through mutation that is ugly and diluted from natural viability, such as cows or even certain breeds of cat.

A word of advice m1thr0s, us foxes NEVER do what we're told, not even if you give us a bone, the only way is if you have our ball and then that's it for us, we'll do whatever we're told to get it back. I don't know how you would ever pull off such a thing, if we knew we would no doubt have manufactured a process by which it could be prevented....

[m1thr0s]

as it happens I do have their *ball* and it's highly unlikely they'll get it back in this world if they don't do exactly what they are told...it's not a matter of anything other than time and the fact that they are flat out of it...but I am not...I have time to spare. I've been stockpiling it since I was a kid.

but you know what? I really don't give a damn either way...

it really doesn't matter...but again, this thread is not about any of that...

m1

[Naomi]

OooooooOooooh

o_O

[m1thr0s]

rofl...

silly wabbits...tricks are for magicians...

m1

[Naomi]

well...fine

[frater luciferi]

yeah yeah dawgs and wolves. . dogs are not even close to being the same creature, but their pack mentality has been exploited for conditioning. i mean if every dawg in the hood turned back wolf? we'd had a god-damn revolution on our hand..the programming of the consumer matrix is far to complex and it gets a hunger going with the average people? why do coke dealers NEED a brand new caddilac escalade? why have a lot killed to protect their buisness? its the american meme of greed..we're the fucking masters at it mang..i would say we are the most decadent culture on the face of the planet..and the most materialistic that has ever existed.

the old bohemian ethos of shedding off the skin of material obsession is a reckoning of the old gnostic termonology anyways..the appocolyptic visions that were common in a sense. like they new it was all going to end someday? relevations in the fundamentalist version of the teachings of yeshuah delved a bit into the old testament a bit to much i think?

in the sixties they tried really hard to invoke the age of horus it was a very prominent thing within yippie propogation. it never happened of course but then bohemian culture progressed with the next "shift" of the material agendum. at least the next few generations of the children of the sun.

[m1thr0s]

in the sixties they tried really hard to invoke the age of horus it was a very prominent thing within yippie propogation. it never happened of course but then bohemian culture progressed with the next "shift" of the material agendum. at least the next few generations of the children of the sun.it never happened because people turned to a whole other priest class before the thing was even half-baked...in this case *musicians*, more or less following the generic tradition of bards, became the 60's cult priesthood...so again we see people turning immediately to something and someone outside themselves to duck the burden themselves. So when the Vietnam war ended and there was nothing as outstanding as that to protest, the vast majority of hippies cut their hair and became money-grubbing slobs.

It was a horrible thing to watch and no particular advantage to the republican party either, for that matter, which suddenly became more about money than it had ever at any time in its history been before...Abe Lincoln was a Republican for Xst sake...not that kind of Republican though...

oh well...

m1

[frater luciferi]

it never happened because people turned to a whole other priest class before the thing was even half-baked...in this case *musicians*, more or less following the generic tradition of bards, became the 60's cult priesthood...so again we see people turning immediately to something and someone outside themselves to duck the burden themselves. So when the Vietnam war ended and there was nothing as outstanding as that to protest, the vast majority of hippies cut their hair and became money-grubbing slobs.

It was a horrible thing to watch and no particular advantage to the republican party either, for that matter, which suddenly became more about money than it had ever at any time in its history been before...Abe Lincoln was a Republican for Xst sake...not that kind of Republican though...

oh well...

m1

and of course the children of those spoiled yuppie sell-outs were generation x..who's spiritual nihilism of slack was a fitting revenge to the ethos of the new psuedo-hippie ideagog that keeps churning its swill of ne0-liberalism thats about as toothless as a 80 year old hooker. bohemianism may well be in its twilit years ,but im sure its last few gasps of breath will hold some sort of weight in leu of the suffocating plastic sheen of consumerist memes.

9-11 was our tower of babel in my own opinion. it was a wake up call that was devilishly stolen and turned into a lullabye to drown out whatever independant thought that the sheeple these days have.

[m1thr0s]

some truth always gets through I think...just not much with majorities of any kind...

the herd exists, ultimately, to wallow and/or follow, but the banner that got raised was actually a pretty high one and it has been difficult, all things considered, to plot the course which was implicated at the highest levels of that brief moment of lucidity...

what was being called for was something frankly other-worldly, in part as a consequence of shamanic based spiritualism and in part in reaction to a level of warfare that left most people feeling quite forced to the edge of the abyss itself...and the horrors of war are a much bigger *spiritual* factor than is generally acknowledged...

so what do we suddenly begin to see? ufo's and et's and ascended masters from distant galaxies and on and on and on...all pushing this general concept of a new foundation along a universal plane...

a fuck of a lot easier imagined than plotted...the Son of Heaven no longer suffices...now we require nothing less than the Sword of Apophis itself...

a few of us are natural foundation plotters...I sometimes think that's what really distinguishes the true occultist...a joseph smith is only building a religion...religions are easy...temple, organ, choir, a book or two of baffling bullshit nobody can possibly comprehend and you're good to go...he's not taking on the burden of foundation because he's essentially a shoe salesman...peddling the latest fashion in shoes. He only looks occultish because he's borrowed so heavily from that style of shoe. In the end it's really all about money and fashion.

genuine Xst doesn't do that...doesn't waste fucking time peddling religion but goes straight to the matter of Kingdom and seeks to raise consciousness directly. He's tweaking the gut strings and laying in *the way*. Xst is a foundation plotter...he's taking on the burden of a faulty foundation and seeking to raise the bar a notch so it *clicks* into a higher gear.

It's an ongoing process of course...many steps to that particular stairwell...that's one of the reasons *the absolute* is fundamentally moot...it's always the *next step* that is the hardest thing to sync. The absolute is what it is and needs no immediate maintenance.

So the 60's raised this nebulous sort of vision. When they turned tail, they turned tail primarily on their own plotters who have pretty much been tossed to the trash heap of these now-abandoned dreams. The problem of course is that those dreams were rooted in something real. That reality didn't run away and bury its head up its ass, even if its bit players did...

m1

[m1thr0s]

YouTube - Everybody Knows (leonard Cohen)

m1

[fr.novumorganum]

it never happened because people turned to a whole other priest class before the thing was even half-baked...in this case *musicians*, more or less following the generic tradition of bards, became the 60's cult priesthood...so again we see people turning immediately to something and someone outside themselves to duck the burden themselves. So when the Vietnam war ended and there was nothing as outstanding as that to protest, the vast majority of hippies cut their hair and became money-grubbing slobs.

It was a horrible thing to watch and no particular advantage to the republican party either, for that matter, which suddenly became more about money than it had ever at any time in its history been before...Abe Lincoln was a Republican for Xst sake...not that kind of Republican though...

oh well...

m1

right on the money...see we need to replace the metaphors....

[frater luciferi]

i've been pondering this whole mess of "bohemian" culture so to speak because i relate to it..and subscribe to it a great deal..i live simply and don't really buy into consumerist meme's. some to a great extent...i'm a huge abby hoffman fan, and a fan of progessivism...socialism and "wheels of change" types of thought..its a natural thing i think if one revers truth as his highest ideal...So yeah naturally being stuck on the fringe of society / the edge of the abyss its easy to view the mess of society as merely a shadowing of the truth...its impossible for any great meme mechanism to successfully run on absolute truth because to keep the gears greased bullshit is required.. and a lot of the older methods of bullshit have been replaced with more secular means of bullshit to appease the people with "certainty".

its been a difficult thing to accept becuase i honestly had believed at one point in time that pure truth was an ideal we could reach...but the more i study the whole structure of the systems that are created--the more bullshit.lies deceit and corrupt practices that i see everywhere.. no where in our supposedly -xtian society do i really see the manifest of x's desire for humanity to be. now its all capitalism and greed and social darwinism...workhorses being worked to death and bled to death with debt they are forced to carry.

but then again the truth is the most powerful tool to wield..so in some sense i think i will try to formulate "positive nihilism" somewhere between zen and black magick..it should work. the hippies of the sixties had a lot of the right ideas i think, i just think they did not have the dedication that is required of "
wizardry" in general as it tends to take preistlike patience and endurance of some rather hellish situations..funny though how so many burgeios middle class americans finally bailed because they did'nt have the strength to endure poverty :P i'd love to see how some of our spoiled countrymen in america would deal with the living situations of people who live in the third world lol,.,..