Moses & Snakes

[deviadah]

Well I am still digesting this stuff but I feel the need to put it out there to see if I'll get any feedback... none of it is any groundbreaking news, but it's still interesting all the same when put in context.

In the mountain region where the famed temple Petra lies (as seen in Indy 3) lies a High Place (a form of temple or place of worship) which was used by the Edomites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edomites).

http://www.civilization.ca/cmc/petra/images/petra02.jpg
Now close to this area stands a Snake Monument, about 30 feet high. It is in fact a monolith carved out of the rock with a serpent twirling around it.

Although destroyed by locals, due to Hippies going there to worship in the 60s (fuckin' hippies), the base of it still remains.

http://nabataea.net/sabara6.jpg

Can be difficult to detect but the base and beginning of the snake twirling up around the broken monolith is quite visible. Archeologists actually discovered a tomb that contained a black staff painted with hieroglyphs. The writings on the staff indicate that it was owned by Tuthmosis.

The staff is now in the Birmingham Museum after a long adventure where it actually at one point was on the Titanic, but left the ship when it stopped off in Ireland (perhaps Titanic got cursed).


http://www.grahamphillips.net/Books/Moses_files/the_staff_of_moses.jpg (http://www.grahamphillips.net/Books/Staff_large.jpg)
Click on image for a larger pic...

Anyway what is interesting is the fact that Tuthmosis is the brother of Akhenaten. He was in fact the Pharao to be but vanished and his younger brother took his place. Now there is linguistic evidence to suggest that Tuthmosis is Moses (or one of several Moses since he lived for a very long time).

Freud connected Moses with Akhenaten, and perhaps not a strange thing to do since both created a religion based on a single God. Perhaps the religion of Akhenaten and Moses is in fact the very same religion - seperated only by language.

Look at the images below:
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/moses1.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/37/122758497_c65ed29b0b.jpg

It almost seems as the lights shining down is the arms of the candelabra pointing upwards (candle-ABRA).

Conclusion: Well really don't have one yet, but the connection between the religion of light (a la Akhenaten) and the religion of the one God (a la Moses) sure thickens.

Add to this the fact that both Baal and Serpent worship seems to be a bigger part of the ancient Hebrew religon than what the modern Jews themselves want to admit. The Bible has clearly been censored, but this we already know for sure.

Hope the above sparks some insights (perhaps even some I myself have missed)!

Related thread:
Akhenaten (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=2581)

Related post:
On Moses in the Ningishzidda: The First Satan? thread (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?p=35910#post35910)

:cool:

[Kuroyagi]

Recently I have come to divide magic into "poetic" and "geometric" magick, and you dev are a master of former...it deals w. persons and gods etc while latter is 1) philosophy/reasoning; logic; sacred geometry..this thread as the Ng one is "poetic magic", of course...(this just as an aside).

I wanted to contribute something about Moses' alleged horns that you mentioned:

The statue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue) depicts Moses with horns on his head. This is believed to be because of the mistranslation of Exodus 34:29-35 (http://php.ug.cs.usyd.edu.au/~jnot4610/bibref.php?book=Exodus%20&verse=34:29-35&src=) by St Jerome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome). Moses is actually described as having "rays of the skin of his face", which Jerome in the Vulgate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulgate) had translated as "horns" (See Halo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_%28religious_symbol%29)). The mistake in translation is possible because the word "karan" in the Hebrew language can mean either "radiated (light)" or "grew horns".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_(Michelangelo)

This snippet is also incorrect IMO, cause AFAICR, the problem lies with a faulty transcription of the Latin version, the Vulgata (remember that before Gutenberg, books were meticulously copied by hand etc...) : the Latin word for "crowned, shining" is "coronata"- and the one for "horned", "cornuta/cornutata (vulgar)". I think that the copiist made this simple reading mistake on which Michelangelos great work was based, then. Thereby you can see how myths are created and how relative certain knowledge "is": half ignorance and a quarter of both tradition&custom and (selfish) personal intentions. And thats why I dont trust such "poetic magic" if its not my own. Why? Im a poet and know how it works! But nonetheless it can be very effective and strong- use it on the world, its pretty cool.

[deviadah]

Well the horns are quite important. There have been altars discovered with horns growing out at the sides. This is due to the fact that in ancient times Baal was worshipped, as was the Golden Bull - and according to various sources both are one and the same.

The religion of the Babylonians and of the Akhenaten Egyptians and of Moses is really one and the same... the schisms occurred at a later date.

My point is that the alchemical significance of the Bible is far greater than at first glance, as is the concepts of the Devil/Serpent - which I am sure we all can agree upon has nothing to do with evil.

In the Babylonian tongue Akkadian the word for serpent is peor. A word adopted by the Hebrews.

Beth is Hebrew for house.

"So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day." - Deuteronomy 34:5-6:cool:

As for 'poetic magic' I don't know... I am not thinking in these terms and my current investigations have no other aim than that which is called A New Perspective!

[Kuroyagi]

Well the horns are quite important. There have been altars discovered with horns growing out at the sides.But not of Moses I'd think. ;)

My point is that the alchemical significance of the Bible is far greater than at first glance, as is the concepts of the Devil/Serpent - which I am sure we all can agree upon has nothing to do with evil.Yes surely, my point was that that also pertains to every poem* and single work of art that is worth its name. The prob. I see with many of those inferences (also surrounding Ng btw) is, that they w. time amass more and more meanings and connotations until they become indistinguishable from the All. (and verily so- cause it IS all connected; but the question is were to draw the line? The Ng/serpent stuff for example gets way out of hand here- and why? for the sake of personal preference mostly it seems. This criticism can also very well be applied to Jung's disciples btw: they press whole cultures -like the Chinese one- into their schemes).

*like the Illiad or other (religious) scriptures, too: the reason is that it is- if good art- by default open to interpretation and re-interpretation. There are possibilites and chances hidden in those works that their authors couldnt have possibly forseen...

p.s. btw: good conversing with you, Dev.- its always inspiring to me. :)

[deviadah]

Well there are two similar words: qalen (shining) and qalan (horn), so the confusion is understandable. And there is an altar with horns broken off situated close by the site of the Snake Monument and the grave of Tuthmosis (although of course no proof that it was his grave). Although the evidence points at least more in his direction than any other.

Regardless I am aware of the problem of where the line should be drawn, but since I know on which path I am walking - and in which direction I am searching - it is really not an issue.

My aim is not ultimate historical truth, but the understanding of the collective memory and what valid insights that can be dredged up from that pit. My thesis is that I will face a mountain of alchemical gnosis that - if understood - will bless not only my own mind, but also others who are interested in being blessed.

Now don't get me wrong, I ain't preaching or some shit like that. I ain't even saying I am right.

All I am doing is putting forth theories and concepts, some crazy and some sound: and I am sure at least one will be a mental nirvana!

:cool:

[frater luciferi]

a lot of the daimons of pagan lore..intermediators between the gods and man had "horns" ..this is also a common thing amidst the "Daimons" in the eastern lore as well. it was not really signified as a "Evil" thing but as always the concept of the horned daimon was "demonized" by the x-tian church after it gained power in the roman empire..

i mean we can also think similarly looking at archetypes of certain pagan gods...samhain the god of winter is almost always depicted with rams horns..and i have seen a few paintings that depict him looking quite like baphomet :P not to mention the satyrs, fawns...etc. etc..

the really kicker for me is when i discovered that a common depiction of the male aspect of divinity during pagan /witch rites in europe during beltaine fertiliie rituals as a stag having deer horns, or sometimes goat horns..which is odvious a sort of reference to masculine potence...as a rack is seen as a visual idenifier of the stags virility and hunters in european "heathen" cultures revered these horns as a valuble trophy to show their "power".

like i said before...the dragon and the serpent both--ie sea snakes was often used as a symbol of royality as well...and was often hung in a banner of some sort behind the throne of the king of his land.. other common adornments were more symbolic representations of oroboros which was considered a very powerful symbol admist the northern tribes such as the celts and the vikings...its a long long list.. and one of the oldest stories in pagan lore is the story of beowulf..about guess waht? a dragon and its/hers relation to the king of that land.

we can see the odvious paradigmal symbolism of saint patrick in ireland who drove out the serpents..ie pagan symbols of wisdom and power, and the x-tian mythos that surronds the slaying of the dragon-as a alegory about the x-tianization of pagan cultures and coversion to the judeo-christian ethos of power..

my own view of moses is that he was tehuti...reputedly a soothsayer and fortuneteller in the egyptian court and a student of egyptian theology for qoute a period of time...his gift of prophecy after his enslavement was something of legend at the time. i would'nt be suprised if he was allowed entrance into some of the egyptian mystery schools...and that it influenced his knowledge and power over the divine forces...

i mean egyptian musick is almost identical to ancient hebrew musick...both in timber and as far as the musickal scales that were used..so perhaps moses adopted such other things as his understanding of the true nature of the serpent and such...

not like the egyptians didnt rever the serpent as a powerful force..

its assinine to think that judaic theology developed in a vacuum. because it did'nt.

[frater luciferi]

the egyptians of course borrowed a little from both the babylonians and sumerians..much the same as the greeks and romans both borrowed ideas from the egyptians...

[MythMath]

Moses was high on drugs when he received Ten Commandments (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=525993&in_page_id=1770)

High of the beholder? Moses and the burning bush.
The acacia tree, frequently mentioned in the Bible, contains
one of the most psychedelic substances known to man...

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/03_01/sexodusDM0403_468x250.jpg

[Dragon]

Moses was in all likelihood trained by the Egyptian priests in their al-chemical secrets. One of these was a common trick that turned snakes into staves - through the use of tobacco in precise amounts. The trick is the dose; too much and you have a dead snake, but get it just right and the snake will come out of the paralysis instead of dying. The rest is all timing and showmanship.

Ala peanut butter sandwiches.

Not that any part of this discussion is without merit, just adding another dimension to the conversation.

~D~