Nergal

[us4-he2-gal2]

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[us4-he2-gal2]

I'm not sure that my notes on Nergal may be considered 'casual conversaton' but I'm referred here in anycase - feel free to move thread if desired. I took these notes on Nergal one year ago, while examining wether this deity may be thought of as emboding any 'vampiric' qualities. How irksome it is to read now. In any case, the informations discussed are from the best scholarly discussion, and particularly I had referrenced a book titled "The Image of the Netherworld in Sumerian Sources" by. Dina Katz (2003)

Check it:
https://www.eisenbrauns.com/ECOM/_2D61BDO2V.HTM (https://www.eisenbrauns.com/ECOM/_2D61BDO2V.HTM)



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2007:




I was jsut reading recently about Nergal in
Diana Katz "The image of the netherworld in Sumerian sources" one of
her points about Nergal I'd never taken into account was that in the
third millennium Sumer was divided into north and south on the
concepts of the netherworld. In the north, at Emeslam temple Nergal/
Meslamtaea represented the north Sumerian netherworld pantheon. And
at the same time in the south, from the egida temple, Ereshkigal and
Ninazu headed the south sumerian netherworld pantheon. Katz: "The two
religous streams merged into one only in the second millennium, but
it seems the constituents of the northern pantheon became more
pornounced."

So, when we consider the marriage of Nergal and Ereskigal, it was the mergeing of their cults and the north/south netherworld pantheons, and seems to have occured only after the Sumerians themselves had ceased as a cultural entity. Certaintly their marriage and the myth "Nergal and Ereskigal" is not only a later text, but as I come to realize, a realization of a later concept of netherworld deities and powers.


**Nergal in Archaic Sumer (Early Dynastic period)


-- I'm now looking at Katz' bio of Nergal on page 405. ah Its impossible to
sum this level of detail without robing it of its direction, but Ive
managed to stop short of typing it verbatim - which again, hopefully wont
completely rob it of its very technical aspect..

Within the authors massive write up on Nergal on pg 405, the earliest attestation of the name Nergal is [d]Kiš.Unu, found in ED III god-lists from Fara, Abu-Salabikh and Ebla. [This is the earliest phase of Sumerian literature, approx. 2500 B.C.]

His name was written [d]Kiš.Unu, and his first cultic center may have been named the same:

There is a hymn from that same era associating this deity with the netherworld, and one scholarly suggestion is that the dieties name also applies to his city, thus Kiš.Unu is also the name of Nergal's first cultic center..The appearence of the name in a cycle of hymns, if it does relate to Nergal, suggests he was important already in ED times, and in a list from Ebla he appears after Enlil, Enki and Inana.


So we see here that Kiš.Unu was featured in the most archaic Sumerian texts, those that are so old as and early as to be at the very fringe of scholarly reach. But...



--------------------WHAT/WHO IS Kiš.Unu ???---------------



Something in Katz' epigraphic circling, which id have to type verbatim to detail, leads me to that Kis in this instance is read 'bull' and this refers to Nergal, and
Unu is to be read 'residence' so the name of the city -and the of deity in this case, evidently mean 'residence of the bull [Nergal]. This is a sometime convention in the Sumerian literature, this way of naming cities, for instance: the city name Larsa was sometimes rendered Ud.Unu[ki], Ud meaning for example Sun/light and refering to Utu - Larsa was the residence of the sun [Utu].

**Many later sources give Nergals residance as E-meslam, Nergals cult center in the city of Kutha, including Old Babylonian sources many Scholars refer to**

So, although some have theorised the city Kiš.Unu equates to
Kutha, Katz argues this is incorrect; Kutha was indeed Nergal's residence since the time of Naramsin [approx 2300 B.C] , but Katz suspects
Nergals cult was moved to Kutha in the Old Akkadian [Sargonic]
period, on the basis that Kutha was always written phonetically: gu-
da8-a[ki] and never refered by geographical name (i.e Kiš.Unu), while other cities such as Larsa coninued to be called such as Ud.Unu[ki]. To her this suggests again the earlier residence Kiš.Unu, which otherwise is obscure.


In the Sargonic period:

The earliest manifestation of Nergal in Sargonic period is in the
Temple Hymns, specifcaly hymn 36:

**A relatively early source that places Nergal in E-meslam at Kutha?**

" 457-466.

O E-giskesda-kalama (House which is
the bond of the Land), bull …… great strength among the gods,
terrifying wild cow, wild bull which causes lament, Gudua, your quay
is a low quay which bestows water, your interior is artfully built,
your mace is a …… mace released from heaven, your platform is a
lustrous platform spreading over Meslam. Your prince, the mighty god,
the sovereign of Meslam, the fierce god of the underworld, the
sovereign of Ud-sus (Sunset), Nergal, Mešlamta-ea, has erected a
house in your precinct, and taken his seat upon your dais.
467. 10 lines: the house of Nergal in Gudua."


- Where was E-giskesda-kalama? Was it in the supposed early residence, or in the better attested E-Meslam at Kutha?

Based on the fact that the E-meslam itself, the temple in Kutha, is not specified in the hymn, and that this hymn deviates in a number of ways from the structure of the other temple hymns, combined with the fact Katz has
found E-giskesda-kalama on a temple list which -in the same text- ALSO lists E-meslam..[thus two distinct places] The author suggests that they are two different temples, and that the hymn in the Sargonic or Old Akkadian period was to this original temple E-giskesda-kalama..
*But* that the copy of the text we have is late, the only version extent, and may have been altered somewhat as it was recopied in O.B times to reflect Nergal's later position in Meslam.

Katz: "This means that in the Old Akkadian period E-giskesda-kalama was a temple of Nergal and Hymn no.36 was dedicated to it. The significant deviations from the fixed structure suggest that in the long period of transmission from Old Akkadian to Old Babylonian periods, the hymn was modified to suit the contemporary religous trend."


Katz suggests that Egiskesdakalama was in fact the name of Nergal's
early temple in Kis-unu, which was perhaps a district in Meslam or a
chapel of the Emeslam. When Naramsin promoted Nergal's status, his
move to Emeslam probably took place - this would have occured not
long after the writing of the Temple Hymns by Sargon's daughter. The
fact that the name of Meslamtaea is found beside Nergal's in the
Temple Hymn, and not in the list of epiphets in previous lines,
indicates to Katz that:

"rather then one god with two names, Meslamtaea is regarded as an individual deity next to Nergal in Emeslam.'



Naramsin, 3rd from Sargon, Establishs Nergal:

In her write up of Meslamtaea (equally long and complex) she states Meslamtaea's name meant 'lad who comes out of the almond tree" and that he was an incarnation of the young dying god.
From the time of Naramsin onward, Nergal is firmly linked to the city of Kutha. Naramsin at that time is known to have refered to Nergal as 'maskim lugal' an epiphet which proposes his war-like character. Further, Naramsin effectively "brought Nergal to the fore, and [Naramsin's] military achievement accentuated Nergals warlike charactor."
Naramsin credited Nergal and Damu wuth the success of his
campaign into Armanum and Ebla and for his domination of the lands up
to the "Upper Sea" [Mediterranean]. Although the cult of Nergal is
not attested in Southern Sumer in this period, Katz believes it is
possible to mark this *point and time and space* as the elevation of
Nergal, and this was a direct result of socio-political enviroment - particularly, Naramsin's reform, which was sparked by a great revolt in
which the city of Kutha took part in:

Katz: "In the framework of this reform, and as a preperation for his
own deification, Naramsin elvated the status of Nergal and presumbly
transfered his cult to Emeslam, the main temple of Kutha where he
became the counterpart to Meslamtaea."

** Meslamtaea was a god of a different nature, who apparently inhabited the E-Meslam temple before Nergal was transferred there. **


From the UrIII period a pair of dedication inscriptions from Sulgi's reign address first Nergal in Akkadian and secondly Meslamtaea in Sumerian. By way of explantion the author suggests the presence of "two ethnic groups within one community,each worshiped its own traditional god, rather than one god with two names."

Nergal enters the ideology of the South (Sumer proper)

A number of Sulgi hymns underscore Nergal's warlike quality although a
link to the netherworld is "merely implied." Katz points to a line in
the lamentation piece called "the Death or Ur-Nammu," as the point in which Nergal is introduced to the south Sumerian literary tradition as an explicit netherworld deity in the line which refers to him as the "Enlil of the
Netherworld" (although the authors reads this to mean that he has
power over life and death via his war aspect, rather then implying
that he is the ruler of the netherworld, which at this time in the
south was still considered to be Ereshkigal).

Finally in this post about Nergal there is a good sum of the
transaction of cult location on pg.427:

When Naramsin transfered the cult of Nergal from Kis.unu to Emeslam:

- "Since old religious traditions cannot cease abruptly and vanish,
certainly not in a complex society, both deites [Nergal and
Meslamtaea] were worshiped in parallel until the Ur III period. The
offering-lists of that period prove that the cult of Meslamtaea did
not decline, and that of Nergal did not flourish before the Old
Babylonian period. It is not surprising, however, that, in the eighth
year of Susin, Meslamtaea recieved offerings with Laz and
Subula.[wife of Nergal in O.B lists]. After two centuries of sharing
their major cult center, half a century after Sulgi promoted Nergal
in Southern Sumer, and at the twilight of Sumerian hegemony,
Meslamtaea attained the identity of Nergal." This is the point the
auther designates as the mergeing of the two entites, though
contradictions can be found for a singular enitity before this point
and multiple afterwards.

[m1thr0s]

yeah, this is a hard one to place exactly but I don't think CC quite foots the bill here...

I'm going to move it to Metaphysical Miscellany-->Historical for the time being and leave a redirect...

thanks us4-he2-gal2

m1

[Naomi]

How did Nergal come to be associated with Ereshkigal?



Great notes...

edit:

I notice there's not much on Laz....

The researchers need to quit being so Laz-y:tsmug:

[us4-he2-gal2]

-- Continued from Above Post --





Nergals position in historic reality is attested in extent offering
lists, that is cuneiform texts which record the types and quantities of offerings made to a given deity (most often, ovines.) However in contrast to the literary epithet given to Nergal in the Ur III, that is 'Enlil of the Netherworld' o- which suggests some high importantce - the o ffering lists of the
same period relate his share as quite "modest."

Information from the admistrative texts lead Katz to propose that Nergal's cult in south Sumer was limited to some small settlements, which most probably were inhabited "by Akkadians". This is in concurence with his earlier
promotion by a strong Akkadian leader (Naramsin).

Referencing the Ur III period again, Katz states "The naturalization of Nergal in southern Sumer was generated in Sulgi's court." Previously, Meslamtaea
had been worshiped in the south and yet it was Gilgamesh, and *later*
Nergal (not Meslamtaea) who was featured in accounts of war. (This
observation came as some surprise to me that is, that a deity would in
any series of events be mythologically assuming the role of a deified
mortal i.e, Gilgamesh. Evidently with Nergal's migration to the south,
this is how it occured.)

-Nergals naturalization into the ideology of the south

**Sulgi was an important and influentual king of Ur - His father, Ur-Nammu, had founded the Ur III Dynasty, in about 2150 B.C. This dynasty saw the last great flowering of Sumerian culture and the proliferation of its literature. When The dynasy fell in abouts 2000 B.C., the Sumerians effectlivly ceased as a cultural identity.**

Katz refers to evidence of extensive military campaigns by Sulgi
in the area east of the Tigris as a reason for the kings
incorporation of Nergal into his circle of deities. These campaigns
may have been prompted by an attack on Der, in Sulgi's 21st year, and
by the next year Sulgi's name appeared deified for the first time.
Previously Naramsin was the only king to have deified himself, so
this constitutes a close parallel to Naramsin "whose deification,
promotion of Nergal to leader of his army, and intensive military
action seem to be related [to Sulgi's action]."
She further states thats its possibly Sulgi was motivated by imperial motivations to follow suit, even at one point changeing his royal title from 'lugal ki-en-gi ki-ur' to Naramsin's royal title 'lugal an-ub-da limmu-bu' "King of the four regions (of the world)." She makes a final supporting observation
which I think is brilliant, that is, that in composition :the Death of Ur-Nammu",
Ur-Nammu was presented as an equal of Gilgamesh in the
netherworld pantheon - This composition would have been written by scribes under the emply of his sin, King Sulgi. This deification and elevation of Ur-Nammu in the son's literature, was perhaps an intentional effort to have his
Sulgi acquire "the theological legitamacy to become a god himself."


So this is an explanation of how Nergal appeared in south Sumerian
literary traditions via Sulgi's court theologians at that time, while
at the same time Nergal was still recieving relatively little
attention in the offering lists due to the retroactive nature of the
cultic activity.. which Katz describes as having 'devotion to
tradition'.

To sum Katz dialogue here, this same devotion maintained
for the most part, even in the more pliable literary tradition, the
earlier belief of Ereshkigal as the ruler of the nehterworld, and Nergal and
Meslamtaea (mostly) remained independant deities - at least until the Old
Babylonian period.

While my attempting to relay her version of the etymology for the
name Nergal will probably leave more of a question mark then ever..
theres probably no danger of us knowing less by my posting it (maybe
not more but anyhow:

The name [d]KIS.UNU is the earliest attestation of Nergal the author says, but as for how the name became Nergal she points to a mention of a
[d]NIN-KIS-UNU found in an Old Akkadian dedication to the life of Naramsin.

She relay's Wiggermann's arguement that the name should be read instead nin.KIŠ.urugal. "Therefore, KIŠ is Nergal, the "bull," and the reading developed; NIN.URUGAL > en-urugal > [the] Emesal umun-urugal, which indicates that he is a netherworld god."

To get a sense of what Nergal's charactor came to be, I've
reviewed the following etcsl links. To say that he was bloodthirsty
in places is safe enough, and yet its still more difficult to say he
did at some point engage in blood drinking. In terms of the Sargonic
era stuff touching on Naram-sin and Nergal, I personally only have
"The cursing of Agade" [etcsl] and "The legend of Naram-
sin" [B.Foster] availble to me neither of which are really the
material Katz utilizes. Some of the Ur III and later references are
more readily availble:



A Praise poem of Sulgi http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/ (http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/)
etcsl.cgi?text=t.2.4.2.24
[Ninazu speaking] "As if you [Sulgi] were Utu, your terror radiates
in battle. As if you were Nergal, your battle-mace drools with gore
and your spear reaches into the blood of the Land"

http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.2.4.2.21 (http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.2.4.2.21)
[seems to indicate actually that at this point the names Meslamtaea and
Nergal addressed the same warlike deity - see lines 14-16]
An adab (?) to Nergal for Šulgi (?) (Šulgi U)
unknown no. of lines missing
1-4. Nergal who ……, …… great awe, who …… the underworld -- its
awesome radiance …… the battle-net, its awesomeness has filled heaven
and earth.
5. 2nd sagbatuku.
6-12. Hero, wild bull with thick horns, …… like a cow, your
terrifying name lets loose awe and fear. You fall on the rebel lands
like the south wind. You are a bolt on the broad extent of the
mountains. When you sit in E-mešlam, your desires are joyously
fulfilled (?). The people assemble at your feet.
13. 2nd barsud.
14-16. Meslamta-ea, your supremacy in the rebel lands! You have
encircled the rebel lands, O youth. Nergal, your supremacy in the
rebel lands!
17-20. Your father loves you greatly. He has made your heroism known
among the people. Your father Enlil loves you greatly. He has made
your heroism known among the people.
21-23. Hero …… for the people, god roaming the mountains! You have ……
the rebel lands. Nergal …… for the people, god roaming the mountains!
24-26. Wherever you stride, all their troops suffer. …… Ansan and
Tidnum, Nergal, wherever you stride, all their troops suffer.
27. Sa-gida.
28-29. May you prolong the life of the hero Šulgi. …… to his
strength, …….
30. Its gisgigal.
unknown no. of lines missing



The death of Ur-Namma (Ur-Namma A):
http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi- (http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-)bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.2.4.1.1

To Nergal, the Enlil of the nether world, in his palace, the shepherd
Ur-Namma offered a mace, a large bow with quiver and arrows, an
artfully made barbed dagger, and a multicoloured leather bag for
wearing at the hip.



-Texts which l think date to a later period-

Unknown origin/time period (by me)
http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.4.15.3 (http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.4.15.3)
A tigi to Nergal (Nergal C) [this one seems to center on Lagash, and to have
Nergal and Meslamtaea combined, possibly late Sumerian]

An adab to Nergal for Su-ilisu (Su-ilisu A)
http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.2.5.2.1 (http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.2.5.2.1) -

[This must date to the period of the Isin dynasty I believe that at
least when Su-ilisu ruled. There are a number of curiousities in this
text one is:

"25-28. In the west, Utu has shone forth for you, and an awe-
inspiring dais has been erected for you! Nergal, you, lord, are one
who has the power to carry off and to bring back (?)! In the east,
lord, ……, you are imbued with a terrible great awesomeness; Nergal,
your praise and renown are such as to unleash awe and terror!" -
Carry off and bring back in the east, Im not sure if this may be a
reference travel to and from the netherworld, or no...- and of
course, theres the line of the hour:
"13-16. Warrior with head held high, respected lord, son who rises up
to protect his father, Nergal, angry sea, inspiring fearsome terror,
whom no one knows how to confront, youth whose advance is a hurricane
and a flood battering the lands, Nergal, dragon covered with gore,
drinking the blood of living creatures!"



A hymn to Nergal (Nergal B)
http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.4.15.2 (http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.4.15.2)

[This would seem to me to be somewhat late Sumerian as well, notice
Erra is featured in the text addressing Nergal. So this dates to the
time in which they were associated by not yet merged as B&G say "The
gods Nergal and Erra were origanally seperate deities, but later
became so closely identified so as to lose their independant
characters." (pg.135). Also notice the mention of Lugal-era at the
bottem, but in unclear context.]

shir-namgala to Meshlamta-eda and Lugal-era for Ibbi-Suen (Ibbi-Suen
B): composite text
http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/section2/tr2452.htmA (http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/section2/tr2452.htmA)

[This seems to represent a further development in Nergals charactor
though in keeping with the general rule of haphazard and/or
bewildering chronology, it appears to have been written by the 5th
and last in the dynesty of Ur-Nammu, Ibbi-Suen (I think this name
equates to Ibbi-Sin unless otherwise corrected.) This hymn features
Meslamta-eda and Lugal-era variant spellings of which may be I
believe, Meslamtara and Lugal-irri in which case B&G say on them:
"Lugal-irra was a minor god whose name probably means 'mighty lord'
and who was identifed as Nergal in late tradition. Together with his
twin, the god Meslamtaea, Lugal-irri was worshipped at Kisiga, a town
in nothern Babylonian. Perhaps they originally were thought to stand
at the entrance to the underworld ready to dismember the dead as they
entered: certainly they were considered to be effacious in guarding
doorways, and in Neo-Assyrian times small images of them were buried
in entrances, Lugal-irra on the left and Meslamta-ea on the right,
identical figures with horned caps each carrying an ace and a mace.
Astronomically, Lugal-irra and Meslamtaea were named the Great Twins
(Gemini)." So Lugal-irra would take the form of Nergal or vice versa
in "late tradition" the question is at the point Ibbi-Suen had this
this hymn written was that identification already made? ]

[Naomi]

I couldn't help but notice the similarity between the name Meslamta-ea and the concept of Mezla from Qabbalistic lore which was discussed in Mutational Alchemy Essentials 001 (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showpost.php?p=7822&postcount=20) briefly. It's the stuff between the seams of the universe that develops the qlippoth theoretically, the kingdom of shells. (Really a Jewish version of the underworld)

I have an astonishing level of interaction with this godform considering I had absolutely no interest before or after contact, yet the experiences remain, still fresh in my mind. I remember things getting a little harsh during those times, but I do think this is a very significant archetype, moreso than I give it credit for because I'm so enthralled with Ng.

Thanks for laying this all out us4-he2-gal2, it means alot to me...

edit:

"Carry off and bring back in the east," by the way could simply be a reference to his station as lord of the setting sun??

[us4-he2-gal2]

Naomi:

As for how Nergal came to be associated with Ereshkigal:


In dealing with Katz observations, we have some of the most difficult and thick Sumerological material available. This is because the concept of the Netherworld was as complex as it was ill-defined, and it was constantly changing along with the people who mythologised its imagery. In turn, the deities of the Netherworld must be carefully examined alongside the fluctuating ethnic and political situations of Mesopotamia.

From earliest times there are two distinct bodies in Mesopotamia, in the south the Sumerians and in north, were the Semitic people who we know by different names. In early period we usually refer to them as Akkadians, named for Agade, which was founded by Sargon, a great Semitic conqueror.

Just as there are two distinct bodies in Mesopotamia, Katz informs us that in earlier times, before Sargon conquered into the south, lets say roughly from 3000 B.C (earlier in al likelihood) until 2400 B.C [the time of Sargon] , there were two distinct visions of the Netherworld pantheon. In the South, the Sumerians believed Ereshkigal and Ninazu ruled the netherworld. In the north the Semities believe Nergal ruled the Netherworld. To see how these two beliefs came together, I will try a timeline - because this shit is confusing.


*3000 - 2400 B.C
- Two distinct concepts of the Netherworld pantheon exist, Northern and Southern

*2400 B.C
-Sargon, a strong Semetic king, estalishes Agade and the Akkadians conquer southern territory leading to new levels of theological 'meshing'

*2300 or so
-Naramsin, a direct descendent of Sargon, move Nergal's cult from its obscure origin point in Kiš.Unu (northern), to the *northern* city of Kutha. Naramsin further raises Nergal and attributes to him his great battle victories - estblishing Nergal as a more prominent (still Semitic) god.

**Sulgi and the Ur III period 2150 B.C.
-Worship of Nergal in the south, in Sumer, is probably largely confined to Akkadians who have migrated to Sumer, and offering lists indicate the god is not yet consider important on a cultic level. However, Sulgi perhaps in order to raise the esteem of his own military ambitions and to follow Naramsin, introduces Nergal to the Sumerian literary tradition - in one of Sulgi's literary compositions, this king's poet's called Nergal "The Enlil of the Netherworld" - here the Netherworld pantheons of north and south begain to merge.

**later developments
It was not until after the demise of the Sumerians in around 2000, that we see the cult of Nergal and Ereshkigal come together in any seemless fashion, when indeed there were only Semities left. The story refered to as "Nergal and Ereshkigal" in which the two are married, has not been found on tablets any older then 1400 B.C. - the purpose of this story has been described as "harmonizing two seperate traditions." It is therefore an artifical attempt by later Semities two bring together to Netherworld pantheons which traditionally, dont go together. So - thats how Ereshkigal became associated with Nergal.. ;]

[Naomi]

Fascinating, and yes, it's a charming story, what's not to like? Hell I'd be convinced, aesthetics itself make it true...lulz...I love the tigi to Nergal, it's almost (but not quite) as badass as Ningishzidda's. I'd like to find out more about Bau too, curious she (he?) was mentioned there. Was Lagash a big city in comparison to others at the time? I'm not familiar with the general size of the towns (I'm new to all of this since last year remember)

Man you are handy....you're becoming one of my favorite people D:

[us4-he2-gal2]

*g* Hey, you too! Well I have been attempting to enter the Academic or Scientific studies of Sumer for about three years now - as you know, for others I guess I still should write my intro.
Theres nothing about Sumer makes for easy research. Especially when you are a non-student you pretty much need to keep noting -and enjoying if possible- the little bits and pieces, and they all start interconnecting logically at some point.
As for population esitmates of Lagash, these are hard to come by though if I recall a few specialised archaeological efforts do attempt to hazard a guess at the populations of different Sumerian cities - nothing but archaeology can do so. In ancient times, a city of 30,000 might be considered large I believe. Lagash was undoubtedly one of the prominent city-states of Sumer and was of a comparable size to Nippur, or to Ur or other important centers, and we are fortunate to have recordings of the doings of some of the Lagashite kings -these form some historical narratives anywhere.

cheers.