Kundalini Yoga and body-temprature drop

[Kain]

Greetings to all,

In Tantric theory and practice, it is said that after Kundalini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini) is awakened in the Muladhara (1st center/chakra at the base of the spine), and eventually ascends above it, subsequently "piercing" and awakening all the other centers upon her passing, the practitioner's body grows unnaturally cold from bottom to top (as Kundalini moves upward) and eventually all bodily heat that remains is to be found on the upper part of the cranium, where the Sahasrara (7th chakra, also reffered to as "Crown" at times) lies. Since Kundalini is described as the subtle force responsible for the maintenance of the human body, this occurance is usually explained as the side-effect of this subtle force's full awakening and ascension back to the "Abode of Siva", meaning that it's awakening results in it actually leaving the body, and thus the body assuming the "coldness of a corpse".

Now, some years ago, even before having read anything on this subject, I had empirically noted that when manipulating energy, and moving a substantial amount of energy around my body, that part of my body's temprature would drop to unspeakably low levels, and usually *instantly* so...in an amount of time of 2 seconds or so. The coldness was very localized, and seemed to have little to do with any actual physical means such as a wrong flow of blood. It was so directly manifest and so intense, usually being equally hard to reheat as it was a coldness that almost seemed to absorb the heat from other sources it touched without equalizing the tempratures between itself and the source, remaining the same cold (!). I had also pinpointed that it's appearance was following a subtle body retraction of sorts at that spot.

As time progressed and I became more proficient in energy manipulation, I eventually seemed to myself to have grown past this peculiar "manipulation error", as I had classified it at the time. It was a lot later on, after having pretty much realized the process of successfully awakening Kundalini that I realized that, in traditional Tantric theory, this occurance was actually a very moralizing, consciously sought for, and "correct" result of the kundalini ascension process!

However, according to my personal sensations, the previous occurances now felt as the result of an exceptionally badly handled energy manipulation session...my results all the more "proving" to me that a successful kundalini awakening brings about healthy heat waves and a general vitalization of the whole body all the more it is achieved and maintained, not leaving the body but actively residing all over it...

And thus my question to you: Have you had any experiences with the proverbial "coldness of the corpse" through kundalini work? If so, do you feel that it is in fact a valid and necessary part of the ascension process? I find myself hard-pressed as to whether I should follow my intuitive sensations or try to replicate an effect that I feel unnatural, and even though I am well known to always do the former in my work and practice, I am still puzzled over this as I hold the Tantric texts and their technical guiding principles to quite high esteem, having driven me clear from some very difficult situations over the years.

Kain

[Amur]

After having a very rough time, I decided that tomorrow I would let go off this life, only to have my kundalini blow up on me in the night. The energy came with such a pressure that I could in no ways go against it, as going against it would've caused pain more or less. Had a bit trouble letting it through in some spine areas. It came up with the same tremendous force as fast as it could. When it reached the top a resonance phenomenom came which made the whole body resonate into itself. It triggered ALL the nerve synapses in the body simultanously, which caused a fierish like burning sensation, with a whole lot of energy. The state where the fire burned, was very intense and when I tried pushing against it with somepart of my light-body the muscles in that region got tensed. Eventually I had to break down the burning state as it showed that my leg muscles were too stiff, and started to tense up(bad energy-conducting). It broke down immediately when I put my thought to it and descended down.

The peculiar thing was that when it came down, all my problems and everything else in the whole body/mind complex was completely healed. I felt great in all aspects and when I looked into the mirror I was 10 times more beautiful than normal. My skin looked great, my eyes shone and I was bright in all senses. I still felt a fast flowing energy going from the base of the spine up to the top of the crown. Naturally I was enraged about all the BS regarding kundalini and spiritual crap I had read about it. It felt as a very natural force in the human body, which the body already knows how to use if it needs to. It's only been forgotten about and I'm sure it can be triggered by mere hypnosis alone.

The next day went perfect in all aspects. I felt great and was energized all the time. Brainhemispheres were anchored to the centre, along with my whole consciousness/awarenss anchored to a sphere with the spine as it's centre point. It was literally like using every cell of the body. Unfortuantely I came down from the state when ejaculating when testing out some sexual qualities of the state. It took for me away the pressure that was distributed evenly from the base of the spine. Which caused the flow to come down, which in turn caused the brainhemispheres to desync back into insanity.

Anyway, at times I've gotten somekind of cool energy to flow up the spine, not sure what it's about, but I believe it's a quite well covered aspect in some of Bihar's Yoga books. But got a bit uncertain about the whole issue due to the lack of knowledge about it, or then it's just my own lack of knowledge hehe. You might also want to try to put your middle finger on the coccyx/tailbone part and tune your fingers energy frequency with the coccyx energy frequency and get it awakened with that. Apparently one can manipulate the energy-centres directly from the spine resonating with the energy inside the spine-vertebra. It could be possible to heal someone through the same procedure from everything.

[m1thr0s]

I have not really worked with Kundalini directly so my opinion is more generic, having to do with energy work as I know it in other ways. Irregardless of what others may have reported I do not trust physical extremes of any kind and cannot regard this as an optimal conditions...certainly nothing to consciously strive after. The middle pillar is called the pillar of "mildness" for a reason. A balance of cold (yin) and hot (yang) should always amount to a comfortable "warm" sensation throughout. The kundalini force is known to dart to extremes and it can do a lot of damage in the blink of an eye if allowed to thrash to and fro of its own accord. As a matter of form I would think it most adviseable to throw everything into steering it right down the middle until such a time as you may have developed enough familiarity with it to better afford various extremes experimentations.

I'm afraid I just don't trust what "people say"...people are idiots for the mostpart and much too willing to impart half-knowledge at other's expense. The core principles involved are much more reliable. We basically know what the Kundalini force is and how it operates. We also know the kinds of damage it can do. If you know that you are steering the thing correctly and you still run into this coldness then that is something else and you needn't worry about it so much. I would not go out of my way to encourage it at all, and I do not trust this phenomenum in general. It may have other explanations, like having not completed its course to the crown chakra sufficiently enough (for one). Any existing damage or misalignment along the spine itself could be another. Or you may simply be looking at a natural side-effect of generating a lot of heat at one location being met with a reactive cold at others. Whatever the explanation might be, one's overall strategy should remain undauntedly straight and narrow.

m1thr0s

[Amur]

Hmm.. Seems to describe the state of condition I'm trapped in quite well. I guess I can thank the idiots for the medication during the sudden pranic awakening. Basically I'm left to steer this vehicle without few working steering mechanisms. Like giving a nuclear fusion driven vehicle to a fucking donkey. Thanks alot! lol.

Personal experimentations with the force has shown that complete submission to it will give it way to ascend normally along the central part of the spine. Naturally one should let go of all the resistance in the various points linked with the spine. Meditation purely on the flow of breath, returning to a natural flow state is excellent for training. Another thing which is good is to be able to surrender to the experience of a tremendous force without trying to control it. It goes up in the center naturally. There are postures which helps to relax the spine, which in turn makes it easier to get it up straight.

Ida nadi is said to be femine, cold while Pingala is masculine and hot. To get the kundalini raising it's important to be able to balance the two nadis(brainhemispheres act according to which nadi is open). When both nadis are balanced Sushumna opens up which is the center-channel. Yoga Nidra is good for balancing the two channels with each other. Also alternating nostril-breath(Nadi Shodhana) is good for changing the nadis and balancing them with each other.

Did once get it up by somekind of practice but the control made it shatter into what-not areas inside heh. Didn't notice anykind of mental disturbances, outside from the normal reality changes. The channels weren't balanced with each other and were in a chaotic state.

A book with alot of different techniques regarding the subject is Kundalini Tantra by Swami Satyananda Saraswati. Has alot of information regarding the subject, still I think there were some dogmatic religious overtones to some of the texts regarding the subject. The exercises in the book are great in all ways.

Basically I think that the whole Kundalini thing is to have sex with oneself. Unbelievable ecstatic sex with oneself. When the masculine and femine comes together with the masculine giving to the receiving femine which in turn emits the great feeling to beginning of the cycle.

[m1thr0s]

Personal experimentations with the force has shown that complete submission to it will give it way to ascend normally along the central part of the spine.I am not a proponent of submission strategies for a number of reasons. I think they are both psychologically disingenuous and physiologically unreliable. Rather, I am a proponent of an asana more akin to controlled relaxation, which feigns submission but actually is not the same thing. It may seem a matter of semantics but I think it's a lot more than that. If it works for you, that's great. The problem arises when it suddenly does not work as expected. I am simply not one to stand by passively and let the winds of Karma do their thing...not if there is any way for me to get to the control panel...

m1thr0s

[Amur]

Thank you for that word. It was exactly what I've been looking after, as I thought that submission doesn't quite psychologically give me the correct symbolical path-way to the matter(too many times have I ended up into an emotional submission which has no use whatsoever). Sure I can let go of everything, but I become like a corpse at the sametime, which imo is complete submission, which is quite pointless. It's quite incredible to live so locked up inside myself without having anykind of personal context to create new logical pathways, as they aren't 'valid' inside my own mind. They have to come from external inputs until someone says that my own things are valid lol.

Controlled relaxation. Oh yes :) Perhaps things can now take a step further. Observation mind-set is universally adept to handling things.

[Kain]

Thank you for your input on this Amur and m1thr0s, it is much appreciated. Irregardless of what others may have reported I do not trust physical extremes of any kind and cannot regard this as an optimal conditions...certainly nothing to consciously strive after. The middle pillar is called the pillar of "mildness" for a reason. A balance of cold (yin) and hot (yang) should always amount to a comfortable "warm" sensation throughout.That's exactly what I am thinking as well m1thr0s...I guess you're right, no such extremes should be consciously pursued to be attained, especially taking into account the tendencies towards extremes kundalini has in general.
The kundalini force is known to dart to extremes and it can do a lot of damage in the blink of an eye if allowed to thrash to and fro of its own accord. As a matter of form I would think it most adviseable to throw everything into steering it right down the middle until such a time as you may have developed enough familiarity with it to better afford various extremes experimentations.Very good point, and much appreciated. I will probably do just that...
I'm afraid I just don't trust what "people say"...people are idiots for the mostpart and much too willing to impart half-knowledge at other's expense. The core principles involved are much more reliable. We basically know what the Kundalini force is and how it operates. We also know the kinds of damage it can do. If you know that you are steering the thing correctly and you still run into this coldness then that is something else and you needn't worry about it so much. I would not go out of my way to encourage it at all, and I do not trust this phenomenum in general. It may have other explanations, like having not completed its course to the crown chakra sufficiently enough (for one). Any existing damage or misalignment along the spine itself could be another. Or you may simply be looking at a natural side-effect of generating a lot of heat at one location being met with a reactive cold at others. Whatever the explanation might be, one's overall strategy should remain undauntedly straight and narrow.All very valid points presented here, thanks you m1thr0s. I always do tend to follow what feels right regardless of what others say, and I guess this is the answer for any such situation.

Thank you Amur, yes, I pretty much follow the same strategy for awakening and steering it. Balancing Ida and Pingala, opening Sushumna and directing Kundalini through it. I also work extensively with the Guna-ratio of the body, as it seems to have a direct and exceptionally potent effect on the body's anatomy, allowing it to better respond to your commands and better behave concerning those comands' carrying out. Asana (body posture) and Pranayama (Breath regulation/"extension" excercises) are also very common methods I employ. By the way, concerning books, thanks for that recomendation, personally I've also found Arthur Avalon's The Serpent Power a very good resource as well.

That is a very good way of describing that approach m1thr0s...controlled relaxation...I *really* understand what you mean by that, and how it is different from submission per se...

Kain

[m1thr0s]

I know you well enough to know that you are more expert at this particular practise than I am Kain, at least insofar as Kundalini work goes. I have never been entirely certain what the best way to define the kind of energy that trigrammal fields generates might be. It seems to fit a number of definitions with equal agility. There are aspects of Kundalini and aspects of Chi and Mezla and Prana and probably a dozen other terms we could rattle off if we searched them out. In the end I am still not sure what the best overall term for it might be. I sometimes wonder if ity might be something we haven't quite put a term to yet, though that hardly seems possible.

In any case, if my indirect observations are of any value, then that's a good thing. The problems I tend to face with trigrammal fields are more having to do with their subtlety than their raw power. Power I am equipped to deal with in no uncertain terms. The subtlety of trigrammal energy fields is another matter and one that is frankly aggravating, though not entirely surprizing. Abrahadabra itself explains this in anatomical terms, being locked directly into the Qabbalistic En Soph, so we must expect that subtlety and not be altogether alrmed at it. The funny thing is...they aren't always so subtle, although most of the time they are. Some of this may just be me. I have a very hard head in many ways...it's almost as if by the time I might be able to crack myself, I will probably be able to crack just about anything...diamonds...steel vaults...anything at all...

I've experienced numerous instances where people are able to take my maps and report back to me energy phenomenum I can only just barely register myself...I suppose it's all to good purpose in the end but it does get frustrating sometimes...But we all have different strengths, and certain weaknesses corresponding. My strengths allow me to glean out data that many others have left behind, yet I may not be able to see auras or experience profound phenomena in other ways, etc. There's not much point getting upset over things that simply are what they are...

m1thr0s

[Kain]

I know you well enough to know that you are more expert at this particular practise than I am Kain, at least insofar as Kundalini work goes. I have never been entirely certain what the best way to define the kind of energy that trigrammal fields generates might be. It seems to fit a number of definitions with equal agility. There are aspects of Kundalini and aspects of Chi and Mezla and Prana and probably a dozen other terms we could rattle off if we searched them out. In the end I am still not sure what the best overall term for it might be. I sometimes wonder if ity might be something we haven't quite put a term to yet, though that hardly seems possible. Thank you for that comment m1thr0s, much appreciated! Well, since I have been openly working with triagrammal fields and Kundalini in my personal system for some years now, I readily see this "universality" of adaptable definitions of the kind of energy such fields generate. I think, the answer is that they can be fitted in any of those definitions and systems, yet their actual core essence resides solely in none of those. You see, I think triagrammal fields opperate based on some very important universal "laws", and generate that energy through correctly manipulating/utilizing those laws and their assorted ramiffications. All the other systems mentioned also work on those laws, but the difference with the trigrammal fields is that they describe and define the processes in a very abstract/archetypal state, one that can be further adapted to whatever immediate components we may be currently working with. At least, that is my personal view based on my utilization of them. Thus, the energy they generate is due to adhering to, and defining, an abstract yet concise set of laws that any form of energy moves by.
In any case, if my indirect observations are of any value, then that's a good thing. The problems I tend to face with trigrammal fields are more having to do with their subtlety than their raw power. Power I am equipped to deal with in no uncertain terms. The subtlety of trigrammal energy fields is another matter and one that is frankly aggravating, though not entirely surprizing. Abrahadabra itself explains this in anatomical terms, being locked directly into the Qabbalistic En Soph, so we must expect that subtlety and not be altogether alrmed at it. The funny thing is...they aren't always so subtle, although most of the time they are. Very good point. I think this subtlety problem is very important and I made a similar point at a different thread about inter-plane connections (when discussing my back injury through misdirected Kundalini force), although I feel I need to think this through again, and try to articulate it better at some point. I think trigrammal fields are essentially subtle most of the time, in fact due to their very nature, although with a good enough conscious and deliberate steering, their potency can be directly brought/grounded in grosser environment. It's a very interesting subject though...
Some of this may just be me. I have a very hard head in many ways...it's almost as if by the time I might be able to crack myself, I will probably be able to crack just about anything...diamonds...steel vaults...anything at all...Lol...I so understand that one...indeed I often think that by the time I manage to crack myself, all will be open to me. I guess it is an integral viewpoint of Autotheism in general...
I've experienced numerous instances where people are able to take my maps and report back to me energy phenomenum I can only just barely register myself...I suppose it's all to good purpose in the end but it does get frustrating sometimes...But we all have different strengths, and certain weaknesses corresponding. My strengths allow me to glean out data that many others have left behind, yet I may not be able to see auras or experience profound phenomena in other ways, etc. There's not much point getting upset over things that simply are what they are...I think there is much truth in the fact that we all have different strengths yet certain corresponding weaknesses. As long as we adhere to what comes natural and rings correctly with the most intimate part of ourselves, the results are certainly for the best. I think your strengths pretty much fill in where others have an admitted lack, as do theirs for you. For a long time I tried to live without accepting this fact, afraid of "falling in unnecessary differentiation" and avid to evolve without subjecting myself to such differentiation, although I eventually realized that it is pretty much impossible, as the only way for each of us to evolve in the first place is to follow our innermost tendencies and strengths. Overcoming our weaknesses is part of the deal, as is striving for a more complete range of abilities and strengths, however a core set of defining tendencies and approaches still remain no matter what, urging us on in an individualized way and path that no other can follow. Thus, in truth, we can only approach universality, evolution and perfection in an absolutely individualized way, otherwise we are unable to get there. As Kundalini Yoga says, "there are as many ways to achieve Samadhi as there are people"...

Kain

[Amur]

What the kundalini has done for me seems to be somekind of outward projection of all the internal aspects (problems and benefits). Which then come manifesting in life physically. It might be scary at times to see what crazy things are within, which become without also. Quite alot of balancing from one aspect to another. I believe that lords curse/shamanic initiation and kundalini might be very much hand in hand. The thing separating is that kundalini is often approached by kundalites carefully, step-by-step, but shamans get kicked into the whole process by the planet itself with death as the 'way' out.

Certain exercises might just manifest the whole problem physically/mentally/emotionally/astrally for you, and will re-occur until it has been taken care of. In this sense I don't believe any exercising to be the real thing in itself. It's just a matter of getting the whole event laid out for yourself to process and go through. This is the real reason why amur doesn't really believe in hammering on some technique as an excuse to escape the real lesson in itself. Too many pick the 'easier' way and take upon a god/guru/santa claus from the mental phonebook and transfer all the responsibility and life to someone sitting in a capitalistic astral-congress for unnecessary laws, telling how life should go lol. One thing is certain for amur atleast, solving the problem physically will override all 'subtler' enviroments and solve the whole chunk multidimensionally.

Psychic pressure which has gone on from one part to another, of course also recursively(fractally echoed) through my whole life. Masculine(Pingala) and femine(Ida) aspect have been de-balanced, where the masculine part is afraid to be masculine, strong and emitting, and the femine part has become too controlling and drawing about the masculine part wanting that strongness and emission, the same thing is surprisingly found in all my relationships and my physical body also. My spine is tense to the left as a consequence heh.

In the end and beginning I don't think that there are any rules to how a thing should go, as long as it goes. When it's up the center it doesn't matter how you did it, as long as you did it. Jerking off to some sacred mantras is very much ok even though some might think it's insulting lol...

[m1thr0s]

...I think triagrammal fields opperate based on some very important universal "laws", and generate that energy through correctly manipulating/utilizing those laws and their assorted ramiffications. All the other systems mentioned also work on those laws, but the difference with the trigrammal fields is that they describe and define the processes in a very abstract/archetypal state, one that can be further adapted to whatever immediate components we may be currently working with. At least, that is my personal view based on my utilization of them. Thus, the energy they generate is due to adhering to, and defining, an abstract yet concise set of laws that any form of energy moves by.That's an interesting perspective and similar to my own conclusions thus far...sort of the ultimate "efficiency machine" essentially, not so much unleashing or creating energy as organizing and streamlining it. And this is important to bear in mind if it's correct, that we may need to be working both ends against the middle here...actually generating higher amounts of energy on the one hand and networking it more efficiently on the other. Abrahadabra has always struck me as the perfect engine...minus the fuel. Of course Mind itself does amount to a fuel of its own kind so we are never at a complete loss so long as we can think, but where this thing really shines is when we can plug an existing energy differential into it by one means or another...not unlike a car engine that can get 1000 miles to a drop of gasoline...yet you still need that drop of gasoline to get the real benefit...

Some schools will argue that synchronization itself is sufficient to crack the shell so to speak. This may be true but it tends to play down the problem of pollutions that we are hammered with around the clock in this world. I have often thought...give me a high-orbital space station and six months time and I'll give you a bona fide godman in return based upon the coordination this system yields all on its own. Of course, the godman would be me in such a case which might be a bit much to handle for some...lol...

In any case, pollutions are one of the major stumbling blocks we are up against here...

m1thr0s

[Amur]

Some schools will argue that synchronization itself is sufficient to crack the shell so to speak. This may be true but it tends to play down the problem of pollutions that we are hammered with around the clock in this world. I have often thought...give me a high-orbital space station and six months time and I'll give you a bona fide godman in return based upon the coordination this system yields all on its own. Of course, the godman would be me in such a case which might be a bit much to handle for some...lol...

In any case, pollutions are one of the major stumbling blocks we are up against here...

m1thr0s

Do you think pollutions are the cause for why 'mistakes' happen? I've had 1 piece missing to completing the puzzle for some time now, with cycles upon cycles repeating. Everytime it has come back in the cycle, 1 piece is missing. It's either an object missing, someone hasn't shown up or then something alltogether else like direct disturbings which links to 1 piece. Quite disturbing. -><- close to scamming the bank for $$$ and doing the poff into smoke trick.

I've already once been inside that state, which seems to have messed up relatives and close friends. Wonder what weird forces are attacking as a direct consequence of it. It's probably best to be out in nature when it happens as the collective-group-demons might be a bit too much to handle with all their crap lol. Been possessed for quite the time now with a very tight strap from most places. It's funny to see how someone comes in everytime I start to elevate myself. Doesn't really matter in what place I am here. It just happens. Not sure if it is as dense elsewhere, but if it is, then it is more like a 1-shot chance and then back down to face the nuclear consequence lol. They have too many 'rules' how one should behave to get access to the blahblah.. Well, they can't keep us locked up for long anymore, it'll begin to crack soon..

**edit note: Thought some about the happenings and must conclude that with enough preparation and a spheric shielding which would mellow out the huge energy and purity distance between oneself and ones surroundings should work, one could literally in a mellow way transform the surroundings to what the surroundings itself likes, which in turn would give one a positive wave towards one's own goal. Going against this flow will just be blocking and manifest harmful events in the long-run. It's more a matter of how to transmute the surrounding negative energies into their opposite polarity.

[m1thr0s]

Do you think pollutions are the cause for why 'mistakes' happen? I'm sure that must be true to some extent at least. Some mistakes are just a natural part of life itself. Others are the result of things being out of balance. The unnatural ones do not typically contain any silver lining...they are what they are and become a part of the overall challenge of existence, making things unnecessarily oppressive and overcomplicating. In some sense, even this is no surprize. The world is what it is, both the good and the bad...

m1thr0s

[Kain]

Do you think pollutions are the cause for why 'mistakes' happen?I'm sure that must be true to some extent at least. Some mistakes are just a natural part of life itself. Others are the result of things being out of balance. The unnatural ones do not typically contain any silver lining...they are what they are and become a part of the overall challenge of existence, making things unnecessarily oppressive and overcomplicating. In some sense, even this is no surprize. The world is what it is, both the good and the bad...Very interesting approach, and certainly one that I agree with. Pollutions really do play a major role in the existance of "unnatural" mistakes in general, and in fact may even be considered a defining characteristic leading to their very occurance...

Kain

[Kain]

Abrahadabra has always struck me as the perfect engine...minus the fuel. Of course Mind itself does amount to a fuel of its own kind so we are never at a complete loss so long as we can think, but where this thing really shines is when we can plug an existing energy differential into it by one means or another...not unlike a car engine that can get 1000 miles to a drop of gasoline...yet you still need that drop of gasoline to get the real benefit...You know, Kundalini Yoga could be of exceptional value to this situation. It just hit me yesterday night, during a late-night energy working session...the Kundalini force is in fact all about the fuel...! Perhaps even more so about the fuel, than the optimal distribution and utilization of the said fuel. That is one of the reasons why I feel Abrahadabra to be so fitting with Kundalini work, putting aside the widespread technical similarities it has with Tantra in general.

You see, it can be pretty much said that Kundalini work bases it's very function on the releasing of (vast) latent energy reserves in the basest form of matter. Viewed in a slightly different way, this can mean that through sufficient subtle "heating", the practitioner achieves, through a well coordinated and consciously directed set of practices pertaining to the Body of Light, an ignition of this basest form of matter, which in fact serves as the fuel to propel one's Consciousness upwards. Now, as we know, the area of the Body that this latent energy is to be found and harnessed lies in the Muladhara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muladhara) area, the lowest of the 7 major Chakras. The awakening of the "Serpent Power" is said to be achieved by bringing it in direct contact with the "fires of Manipura (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manipura)" (which is the 3rd chakra), something that the practitioner achieves through prolonged Asana (body posture) and Pranayama (breath "extension" excercises). I think it is important to remember the instrumental difference (and connection) between spark and flame, as in order for the descending spark to openly manifest, it must directly interract, ignite, and transmutate the lattent energy in the fuel it uses...thus allowing actual flame to be born, and to naturally aspire upwards, pretty much like Kundalini itself does...

Now, the Abrahadabra Grid is squarely placed so that the inner descending triangle is directed at Sephira #10, Malkuth, or Kingdom, which pretty much corresponds in attributes with the Tantric Muladhara. There is something to be said about the connection of the "Flames of Manipura" and Tiphareth, which is attributed with the qualities of the Sun. The immediate point that I am making however, is that it can be said that the fuel of the ultimate "efficiency machine" pretty much lies at it's own feet, and through it's consciously directed Transmutation (through fire) it's latent energy can be awakened and utilized to feed this machine, thus achieving both the full fascilitation of the Body of Light and the Great Work as described by Qabbalists (as in "Raising the Foundation")...

By the way, this is a coincidential but very interesting quote that has always related the "ascent from Malkuth" with Kundalini in my mind, found in the First Triangle (http://www.abrahadabra.com/first.triangle.htm)formula:Because this formula is linked archetypically to the "the lord of the horizon", I always find myself wanting to span out horizontally upon the final return to center in a little zig-zag dance action from wing to wing, but this is optional and just sort of comes naturally to those who work this formula a lot.Perhaps it's only a personal connection as the quote itself speaks of a horizontal spanning out, but I find the zig-zagging dance action very fitting too and it deeply reminds me of the movement of Kundalini, which of course spans both upwards and outwards in such a motion.

Kain

[m1thr0s]

I think your arguments are perfectly sound here Kain, though I may play devils advocate just as a matter of keeping balance. Not too much though because for the mostpart there simply isn't much point. Your observation about the power lying right at the system's feet is simply too poetically astute to be scoffed at on any level...

I don't usually discuss the actual energy end of things too much because it seems to me that people have always got the wrong impression when I have attempted this on other forums and almost instantly the whole thing breaks out into a purile rant regarding the dangers of drugs etc. This should suffice to let you know that by in large I have confined myself to routine *sacramental sessions* as my preferred method of operations regarding fast and immediate energy amplification. I don't argue that it is the only or the best way necessarily but it has its upsides, as well as it downs. On the downside is mainly the fact that we are living in a police state from wall to wall in this world that is hell bent on playing both ends against the Magus in essence. Those who are the first to slam down on illegal drug use are also the first to capitalize on its profitability and only fools and sheep think otherwise. So it is nearly impossible to conduct the kinds of experiments we need to conduct under the kinds of controls we need to excercise.

Now it happens that there is some kind of relationship between hallucinogens and Kundalini energy from everything I have read or been able to gather, yet hallucinogens typically activate from the brain and link through the sexual synaptic system more or less top-to-bottom it would seem. Kundalini itself runs in reverse to this from what I can tell yet the end results are very similar and the kind of energy itself is also very similar. But I have had certain problems being able to achieve much success with Kundalini energy itself. For one thing I have always been dirt poor and have lived very poorly in crummy crammed in apartments, basements, all of that crap. I have never been able to afford the time or the special instruction it seems to require to really get anywhere with Kundalini practise itself. This doesn't amount to any kind of indictment against it or anything...it's just the way things have been for me.

The systems I have been especially drawn to are those that can *work in tight* in almost any situation...even a goddamn jail cell if it came to that. The methodology laid down in mutational alchemy can be applied almost anywhere without requiring any special set and setting. Obviously the better your circumstances, the more freedom you will have in general, but my preference has been to focus on things that can be applied under the worst conditions possible. You don't need robes, you don't need a temple, you don't need other people, you don't need a sound-proof ritual environment etc...you can apply this stuff going to sleep or on the bus or during your workday at intervals etc...it can all be fitted in wherever you find a little niche that can be exploited.

So the upshot...for me...is that I just don't really know for sure if Kundalini and Mutational Alchemy are a good fit or not. I honestly don't see why not, but I have simply never been in a position to verify that personally. My impression is that it can work with just about anything capable of upping the energy annie, though I would not recommend amphetamines or drugs that primarily tap the body's own natural energy reserves. Hallucinogens are different because they introduce new levels of energy and only deplete the body very imperceptably at a mineral level from what I can tell...nothing to be alarmed at and nothing that cannot easily be supplemented.

We need an actual research institute to explore all of this properly so this is the whole reasoning behind the Abrahadabra Institute, but I have not been successful at mobilizing this to date...it takes a certain amount of money and very good networking skills of which I have neither. But the need itself is academic and sooner or later this is how things will need to be conducted. Kundalini is a very good possibility for those able to explore it. Lucid dreams are another. Chemognosis is a third. Chi explorations another. There are almost certainly hundreds of possibilities that may all yield profitable results.

So I would have to say, if you've got the ball...run with it and keep me posted if you can. I certainly can't do it all myself so I am very interested in anything others may be able to uncover. It would seem from your previous experiences that you already have an aptitude for Kundalini work Kain. At the same time you seem to have a mind for higher physics which many tantrics are sadly lacking in. I am not sure why that is but the combining of these two skills represents a formidable force to reckon with I would venture to say...

m1thr0s

[Kain]

I think your arguments are perfectly sound here Kain, though I may play devils advocate just as a matter of keeping balance. Not too much though because for the mostpart there simply isn't much point. Your observation about the power lying right at the system's feet is simply too poetically astute to be scoffed at on any level...Certainly, there isn't much point in discussing if no other opinions are stated and explained. And thank you for that comment m1thr0s, your input is always appreciated...
I don't usually discuss the actual energy end of things too much because it seems to me that people have always got the wrong impression when I have attempted this on other forums and almost instantly the whole thing breaks out into a purile rant regarding the dangers of drugs etc. This should suffice to let you know that by in large I have confined myself to routine *sacramental sessions* as my preferred method of operations regarding fast and immediate energy amplification. I don't argue that it is the only or the best way necessarily but it has its upsides, as well as it downs. Well, there are certainly a lot of ways to go about energy amplification. I personally have my reservations against this particular approach, yet I know a lot of people who use it and they have quite interesting concrete results with it. I would like to ask you a few things, but I'll probably take it in another thread.
Now it happens that there is some kind of relationship between hallucinogens and Kundalini energy from everything I have read or been able to gather, yet hallucinogens typically activate from the brain and link through the sexual synaptic system more or less top-to-bottom it would seem. Kundalini itself runs in reverse to this from what I can tell yet the end results are very similar and the kind of energy itself is also very similar. Very good point, and also very true based on my personal perception of both practices. Even though I have worked a lot with Kundalini, I have only heard descriptions of halucinogens' energy effects in a session. It's very important to note the top-to-bottom and bottom-to-top difference though, even though if the end "result" is very much the same.
But I have had certain problems being able to achieve much success with Kundalini energy itself. For one thing I have always been dirt poor and have lived very poorly in crummy crammed in apartments, basements, all of that crap. I have never been able to afford the time or the special instruction it seems to require to really get anywhere with Kundalini practise itself. This doesn't amount to any kind of indictment against it or anything...it's just the way things have been for me. I understand. The funny thing with myself is that I was introduced in Kundalini work pretty much by my system's own accord, as it prematurely awakened itself at some point, making me eager to search more on what those currents I perceived actually were and how could they be controlled. I have a suspicion that it was telekinetic excercises that ticked it off, as they have a tendency to have one opperate extensively with the lower three chakras. After my aforementioned accident with it, it became more of a need of sorts as the uncontrolled random jolts generated where pretty much amazingly common and equally frustrating and painful.
The systems I have been especially drawn to are those that can *work in tight* in almost any situation...even a goddamn jail cell if it came to that. The methodology laid down in mutational alchemy can be applied almost anywhere without requiring any special set and setting. Obviously the better your circumstances, the more freedom you will have in general, but my preference has been to focus on things that can be applied under the worst conditions possible. You don't need robes, you don't need a temple, you don't need other people, you don't need a sound-proof ritual environment etc...you can apply this stuff going to sleep or on the bus or during your workday at intervals etc...it can all be fitted in wherever you find a little niche that can be exploited. This has been an asset I especially tend to look for myself in systems I employ, so I very much understand your point of view here. I think that's a remarkable and equally practically useful aspect of Mutational Alchemy really...it's ability to work under any conditions. I have been often stressing aspects of Kundalini Yoga towards that end as it is something that especially intrigues me also (I think it is due to our ways of life). I work on something until I manage to make it a trained-in (and built-in) "ability" of my subtle nervous system, retracking pathways over and over so that they can function under especially harsh conditions if need be. I consider it downright essential for my system to train the ability to sustain it's composition even during daily life endeavours, at least as much as I can successfully manage to sustain it.
So the upshot...for me...is that I just don't really know for sure if Kundalini and Mutational Alchemy are a good fit or not. I honestly don't see why not, but I have simply never been in a position to verify that personally. My impression is that it can work with just about anything capable of upping the energy annie, though I would not recommend amphetamines or drugs that primarily tap the body's own natural energy reserves. Hallucinogens are different because they introduce new levels of energy and only deplete the body very imperceptably at a mineral level from what I can tell...nothing to be alarmed at and nothing that cannot easily be supplemented. Indeed, I feel that Mutational Alchemy can pretty much work with just about anything providing the energy amplification it desires. Since for me Kundalini work is especially bent on the subject of direct energy generation/amplification through utilizing an alchemical interraction based on the Body's inherent components, the two have seemed to complement each other especially well until now, at least based on my personal experience...the one excelling at optimum direction and control of energy, and the other at raw generation of it.
We need an actual research institute to explore all of this properly so this is the whole reasoning behind the Abrahadabra Institute, but I have not been successful at mobilizing this to date...it takes a certain amount of money and very good networking skills of which I have neither. But the need itself is academic and sooner or later this is how things will need to be conducted. Kundalini is a very good possibility for those able to explore it. Lucid dreams are another. Chemognosis is a third. Chi explorations another. There are almost certainly hundreds of possibilities that may all yield profitable results. ...so many possibilities open due to the fact that Mutational Alchemy is based on such openly universal laws, I think. Yes, the Abrahadabra Institute is certainly an exceptionally important project to be mobilized, even though I wouldn't know almost anything about setting up something like that...

So I would have to say, if you've got the ball...run with it and keep me posted if you can. I certainly can't do it all myself so I am very interested in anything others may be able to uncover. It would seem from your previous experiences that you already have an aptitude for Kundalini work Kain. At the same time you seem to have a mind for higher physics which many tantrics are sadly lacking in. I am not sure why that is but the combining of these two skills represents a formidable force to reckon with I would venture to say...Perhaps I do...I am certainly running with it though and it seems all the more interesting every day that passes. Indeed I must agree that the higher physics aspect/approach towards things really is rare in tantrics in most cases it seems, although I personally feel they complement each other perfectly...the higher physics aspect is, I think, what traditional Tantra lacks the most, and despite it's exceptionally important understanding of the 3 Gunas/qualities and their relationship to the three primary Nadis of the spinal column etc. the approach it follows is largely unappreciative of the purely geometrical/mathematical relations that can be exploited by such a powerful energy generator such as Kundalini. By "unappreciatve", I mean "leaving such opportunities largely latent and unexploited", as from what I've seen and experienced, such supergeometrical structures are at work in the process, wether consciously perceived and manipulated or not, but they are mostly only subtly hinted by the predescribed traditional tantric processes' ramifications, and thus work in the background. Bringing those structures and interractions squarely in the foreground while maintaining the energizing effect of the main method is what intrigues me the most...

Kain

[m1thr0s]

Somehow there seems to be a hidden pattern behind many of these so-called "accidents". I don't know exactly how it works or anything but I have observed this many times in many different ways with others. I think that if we are lucky (or whatever it is) we might incur these kinds of accidents as a way of getting our own attentions somehow, since in so many cases it seems that there is a lifetime's work involved just in solving that initial puzzle. So the fact that this happened to you is almost proof of its own kind that this is something you are especially well suited to dealing with I think.

Weird theory perhaps, but a persistent phenomena in occultism...

m1thr0s

[Kain]

Somehow there seems to be a hidden pattern behind many of these so-called "accidents". I don't know exactly how it works or anything but I have observed this many times in many different ways with others. I think that if we are lucky (or whatever it is) we might incur these kinds of accidents as a way of getting our own attentions somehow, since in so many cases it seems that there is a lifetime's work involved just in solving that initial puzzle. So the fact that this happened to you is almost proof of its own kind that this is something you are especially well suited to dealing with I think.

Weird theory perhaps, but a persistent phenomena in occultism...

m1thr0sVery interesting approach...I have thought of it this way myself. Kind of an abrupt way to direct yourself towards what's important and fitting, but I guess, "whatever works" right?...It certainly makes sense in a way. And it does feel throughout these years like an especially fitting practice for myself...

Kain

[Amur]

Some information regarding kundalini:

Kundalini Tantra - A book which I definately recommend. It has got all the required techniques to awaken the energy centres and how to utilize them. The techniques have been very very efficient for myself.

Wikipedia link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini)

It's good to come up with a flexible spine to prepare for the launch of the kundalini energy. So spine stretching is very recommendable. Hala (http://www.santosha.com/asanas/hala.html) and spinal rolling (http://www.holistic-online.com/Yoga/hol_yoga_pos_spinalroll.htm) is good for getting the feel for the spine.

The whole thing about surrendering, is because when the full-blown aspect of kundalini starts ascending it's so tremendously powerful that there is only one option which is to submit to the force of it. Going against it might cause pains in the back, haven't dared to go against for too long time as it feels like running against a slowly pushing train. So I suppose that being able to observe objectively pain without attaching can be very training towards ascension of the earth force.

[Kain]

Thank you Amur! I just made a sticky for Yoga resources so I've added the information you shared! Much appreciated...

Kain

[Amur]

Sorry, I was out of line and should've considered a bit what I wrote.

[Seipiriz]

Maybe you would like to test one or two breathing exercises of Bikram Yoga...

Bikram Yoga is generally practiced in hot rooms or saunas in the temperature of 90-110 degrees F. Bikram Yoga is supposed to be cleansing and helpful due to its ability to loosen the muscles and attune the whole nerve system...Practicioners of Bikram Yoga have witnessed that despite the temperature of the room, their body temperature remained in many caese unaffected...

My last night's experience does not support the arguement although my sensing of my body energy greatly increased and I was able to concentrate even better...

Give it a try it quite interesting...

[Amur]

The best I can say for Kundalini Yoga is to let the Earth energy ascend through the root, and while at it let the earth energy heal every part of the body. Via the root let it go to the next vertebrum and let it heal the place there fully, and then to the next and so on. In the end one will be completely healed and get the brainhemispheres anchored with each other and definately have ones feet in the ground. The sexual intensity which comes from letting the root energy go up is very neat, and if you have any sexual repressions, this would be the way to heal them and get a feel for your own sexual energy in a pure energetic way.

I believe the next step is God Yoga and let the physical aspect of ones Godliness descend through the crown. Though it might be tricksterious when there are all these fuckers manipulating and tring to hinder the process :D

[Kain]

Thanks Seipiriz, that's an interesting approach that I did not have in mind but it does make sense.

Amur, yeah, that's how I'd describe it as well in a nutshell. However, even though it does work that way, the important thing and point of focus soon becomes intensity of application, rather than application itself. For Kundalini Yoga techniques working "completely" would bring about ramiffications so final that no "after" would even exist, not in the sense we use it anyway.

So the Earth energy does go up and does heal and nurture the lotuses, yet the intensity of that ascending movement is still not satisfactory (in a complete sense) because if it was complete, Laya would have occured. So the usual next point of interest is the conditions under which this energy makes an uninterrupted and most complete voluntary upward movement, and the minimization of hindrances to that tendency. And this step of optimization, distilling and intensification of the ascent is the one taking so much time.

By the way, I wholeheartedly agree with "God Yoga" and that really does seem to be the next stage. As "Nada becomes desirous of Change and attains Bindu, thus taking a stance fitting for Creation". Self-Redefinition at it's best...

Kain

[Amur]

So the Earth energy does go up and does heal and nurture the lotuses, yet the intensity of that ascending movement is still not satisfactory (in a complete sense) because if it was complete, Laya would have occured. So the usual next point of interest is the conditions under which this energy makes an uninterrupted and most complete voluntary upward movement, and the minimization of hindrances to that tendency. And this step of optimization, distilling and intensification of the ascent is the one taking so much time.

By the way, I wholeheartedly agree with "God Yoga" and that really does seem to be the next stage. As "Nada becomes desirous of Change and attains Bindu, thus taking a stance fitting for Creation". Self-Redefinition at it's best...


Actually the "God Yoga" came from an experience that I read about Baha'u'llah, the founder of the Bahai religion(sorry for the overtones, my father has been a follower for a long time hehe). Anyway, he was in the dungeon and describes it that a mountain sat on his crown and electrocuted his body. So naturally it seems like a kundalini phenomenom except that it came from Above and not Below. Which again with piecing the puzzles together, should work together with Kundalini as ones own Godhead descending into a perfectly balanced body(having balanced it with ascending the earth energy).

One reason for the inavailability of Earth energy, might be your own feeble connection the the planet itself. As much of the current energy we are living in, comes from Above instead of Below. So going to some naturally high-peeking place like a mountain or sitting below an old tree might get the connection back up. Generally found these kind of places to be high on earth energy. Also taking a break (2 weeks is more than enough for your age) from ejaculating should get it up and amplify the pressure a lot.

[Kain]

Anyway, he was in the dungeon and describes it that a mountain sat on his crown and electrocuted his body. So naturally it seems like a kundalini phenomenom except that it came from Above and not Below. Which again with piecing the puzzles together, should work together with Kundalini as ones own Godhead descending into a perfectly balanced body(having balanced it with ascending the earth energy).That's an experience I am quite acquainted with and in my personal experience it indeed occurs in those circumstances, i.e. the Above motivating the already internally perfectly balanced Below into a macrocosmic Dual Union of sorts. By the way, it is this phenomenon that I described through the Nada/Bindu symbolism above.

I have drawn many glyphs depicting this principle as I am deeply aware of it's application and has in fact been one of my most initial and dominant motivations throughout the years. For a very long time I approached it purely on an intuitive level, purely unable to describe it to any one outside myself. Thankufully, I got better at codifying it and structurally understanding it's conduct and application.

Of particular importance is the distinction of focused-on/employed symetrical symbols to two types. Point symmentry and line symmetry are very important, and what actually occurs in a way in this experience is the conscious internal Completion of what lies in the microcosm through employing the faculty of point symmetry, and then introducing it's microcosmic perfection to the macrocosm through the external point in the Above, thus employing line symmetry. This is a huge subject that needs proper graphical depiction to better understand and I'll get to it in due time. The connection and transition between even-based elemental systems to odd-based is also connected to this issue though, as is the two-step process of centering and expanding/ascending. Here (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Goyios/Forum%20stuff/centeredtreespirit.gif)'s a roughly drawn image I found lying around that depicts the connection between the two. The Tree is not a necessary part of it, nor is the traditional western system of 4 elements. It would be the same with any even-base elemental system or similar symbol and it's connection to the Above. I think the immediate example is interesting however because it depicts a rather obvious connection between the center of the circle (it's importance visible through employing point symmetry in the microcosm) with the apex of the "pyramid"/pentagram (it's importance visible through employing line symmentry in the whole glyph). So the projection of the apex co-ordinate onto the microcosm seems to be in the circle's center...although like I said this is a huge topic that needs to be expanded on elsewhere at some point.
One reason for the inavailability of Earth energy, might be your own feeble connection the the planet itself. As much of the current energy we are living in, comes from Above instead of Below. So going to some naturally high-peeking place like a mountain or sitting below an old tree might get the connection back up. Generally found these kind of places to be high on earth energy. Also taking a break (2 weeks is more than enough for your age) from ejaculating should get it up and amplify the pressure a lot.That's a great point Amur, and I definitely agree with you. In fact, I think a shallow understanding of Earth energy is most often the dominant reason behind most people's frustration towards "natural upward movement". By not attending to including a sound and inclusive/valid enough mental representative of the Below, they cannot rightly/naturally approach the Above either, as the steps of the process are what they are and accounting for internal cohesion/balance/centering of the currently consciously perceived system needs to be completed prior to expanding towards what lies Above...

Kain

EDIT: Here (http://Kain.zoints.com/album/?imgid=36585)'s another image I just built on the subject. Quite quick and rough, but gets across my point I think. I'll probably get to making a thread specifically for this subject at some point as I said.

[Amur]

The centeredtreespirit picture got goosebumps all over me. A very fine illustration of something which clicked nicely together. Finally I started today understanding the benefits of the Tree of Life and the Abrahadabra grid connecting Kether straight to Spirit.

About Kundalini Yoga, it is good for myself to use the Ajna Inne-eye as the transmitter and tuner. Then tuning it to the various centres, starting from the root, you should get a concept of the various bodies, physical/emotional/anyotherbodycomplex you use. Then start stimulating the root, drawing the energy from the earth to the feet and up the feet to the pelval area. Concentrate with your ajna only on the pelval root area. Then let the Earth energy come in and draw it either up to the damaged parts, or then use your awareness like an mirror, mirroring the energy and earth's own consciousness. Let it come up and fill the root sphere until it is strong and self-subsistent and immune to any outer breach or attack. Continue this process to the next sphere and do the same thing. It should all be mirrored in the emotional and other subtle body-systems. Go through all centres until you reach the top. This way you will become a fully healed individual.

This procedure might take many months to achieve to it's fullstate. Depending on traumas, it might even take years. But looking at the efficiency, it does heal a whole lot more than one shiatsu session for example. Though they come to the same point from a different perspective. But the Earth healing was more all-encompassing and gave me the exact information regarding the issue. It gave so much information that I got surprised by it. Even more surprising is that people aren't aware of this.

The overall mapping is to use the Ajna as a mind-mirror to the place one points it to. Pointing it to the root, gets ones primal things, which is related to the body itself and through letting the black earth energy come up, it fills up the parts and subtle bodies which are hurt.

T
That's a great point Amur, and I definitely agree with you. In fact, I think a shallow understanding of Earth energy is most often the dominant reason behind most people's frustration towards "natural upward movement". By not attending to including a sound and inclusive/valid enough mental representative of the Below, they cannot rightly/naturally approach the Above either, as the steps of the process are what they are and accounting for internal cohesion/balance/centering of the currently consciously perceived system needs to be completed prior to expanding towards what lies Above...


I find it that way way way too many has gotten stuck into the crown<->collective part, which to begin with is somehow damaged and has for myself atleast been subject to manipulation. While many think that it connects to their Higher Self, or God, it seems to go to various parts of the collective. Though I'm not entirely sure about this. All the crown signals I've gotten yet has been not so very unconditional and all-encompassing, though that might also be because of it's nearness to the mind structure itself, which might clutter the signal up quite alot. In the same way that one gets the flow from beneath coming up, it should be able to be done from the above also. Though I think that one should have a clear connection to ones truly own Higher Self, instead of some Indian Sale on Enlightenment... *grin* Sry a bit blastered so not sure if I resonated with this at all... Thanks for reading though :D

[Kain]

The centeredtreespirit picture got goosebumps all over me. A very fine illustration of something which clicked nicely together. Finally I started today understanding the benefits of the Tree of Life and the Abrahadabra grid connecting Kether straight to Spirit.I must say I am quite honoured by your comment Amur. Very glad to know it resonates with you!
About Kundalini Yoga, it is good for myself to use the Ajna Inne-eye as the transmitter and tuner. Then tuning it to the various centres, starting from the root, you should get a concept of the various bodies, physical/emotional/anyotherbodycomplex you use. Then start stimulating the root, drawing the energy from the earth to the feet and up the feet to the pelval area. Concentrate with your ajna only on the pelval root area. Then let the Earth energy come in and draw it either up to the damaged parts, or then use your awareness like an mirror, mirroring the energy and earth's own consciousness. Let it come up and fill the root sphere until it is strong and self-subsistent and immune to any outer breach or attack. Continue this process to the next sphere and do the same thing. It should all be mirrored in the emotional and other subtle body-systems. Go through all centres until you reach the top. This way you will become a fully healed individual.Now that's another interesting point you make...I have actually used the very same technique you describe for a very long time and I must say it deeply helpd me in a LOT of aspects of energy work. I employed it in the exact same fashion you describe, pretty much using Ajna as a spot-light of subtle activation and projecting onto the lotuses, one at a time, bottom to top. A very powerful technique, although at some point it ceased working for me as I started facing problems of a different nature...my subtle form was largely correct and the problem all the more became it's actual constitution and thus it's (trained in) natural/resonant frequency. Excessive formulation made it all too stiff to work with, so I stopped opperating from the Ajna per se, and begun drawing straight from apex and then using Ajna as a directional tool.
The overall mapping is to use the Ajna as a mind-mirror to the place one points it to. Pointing it to the root, gets ones primal things, which is related to the body itself and through letting the black earth energy come up, it fills up the parts and subtle bodies which are hurt. Exactly. In my experience the real fun comes when this accumulation of Earth energy is brought to a possition where it actually actively ignites, when brought in prolonged and direct interraction with energy originating from Above. The Kundalini Serpent is said to awaken through sufficiently heating it's environment and that seems to be the case in my experience as well, as when it ignites it becomes a cleansing/burning and violently ascending influence that flows throughout all the nadis and centers, although to correctly steer it without accidents, the path it will follow must be correctly "built"/defined before full ignition is pursued. Also, it is this process of ignition I was referring to when I have previously said that the descending triangle in the Abrahadabra Grid (which is squarely placed at Malkuth) to me shows that the fuel the Abrahadabra "machinery" needs to take off lies at our own proverbial feet (or Muladhara, depending on how you look at it).
I find it that way way way too many has gotten stuck into the crown<->collective part, which to begin with is somehow damaged and has for myself atleast been subject to manipulation. This is true, although it is important to remember that the lotuses in their archetypal and internally cleansed constitution are not subject to any (external) manipulation of any kind, for there is nothing external to manipulate them! Certainly the Crown we currently possess is though, and that is why it is so important to correctly define our relative internal balance regardless of our actual current/temporal state, so that we can best align with the so-called Higher Self or Godhead at any given moment. This means that alignment with the Higher aspect of ourselves can be mechanically pursued and achieved if we correctly realise the feel, hue and volume of interactions between macrocosmic components and then emulate that set of interractions in our own microcosmic equivalent of that system.

Thus, this emulation is a way achieves a passive/aggressive shielding of sorts, bringing us all the more apart from resonating with forces not aligned to this model while at the same time giving us all the more direct access to the potential of the macrocosmic state we aim for, as resonance grows more complete.
While many think that it connects to their Higher Self, or God, it seems to go to various parts of the collective. Yeah, and that's why the immediate Crown we perceive has a lot of stuff flying above and around it that "objectively" (if such a term can be used when describing the relations between planes of reality) are not so pure of essence...however, I think the reason this is so is that the Crown perceived is still very far (resonant frequency - wise) from the Crown desired to be attained and perceived. Meaning that as synchronization and internal tuning gets better, such influences will be nearly "invisible" to the Crown (due to it's intended receptive frequencial spectrum) although not invisible to, say, Vishuddha (which will respond a lot better towards filtering them, due to having a healthier Crown, Ajna etc. above it in terms of constitution and resonant frequencies).

Kain

[Amur]

Kundalini in a nutshell is to let the earth energy go up through the spine and up through bindu/crown. I believe I made it go up the bindu and then come down through the crown and go down in the front. This way I'm 100% protected by the planet all the time, and it kinda steers the vehicle. Of course I got free will and all so it's not like a dictatorship thing, but the planet is very loving and tender, far better than these #"!¤#"%# space-invader assholes... (They don't like that I write like this about them, must be some ego-issue, I don't mind them calling me an asshole :D )

Anyway, you might also like to hit the crown when ascending the kundalini, as it should discharge all the nerves in the body, which in turn also heals the whole mechanism.

[Kain]

I should re-evaluate my former comments on this issue, as it seems that Kundalini ascent per se is indeed followed by body temprature drop, as the texts denote. It seems that during the building of the dissolutional heat produced by the combination of prana and apana vayus, immense temprature rise is experienced although that is still prior to the actual ascent which requires a much subtler condition to come about. It seems the heat travels fast towards the head once any ascending movement is initiated, leaving the limbs to grow cold at first and then moving to the main body etc, until only the upper cranium remains warm and all other parts of the body are under the "coldness of the corpse" as the texts denote...

Kain

[Naomi]

Yeah I've experienced this...actually I did two things with it, one I let the cold take over so I was shivering all day, the other thing I did later was get in the hottest scalding bath I could stand, then get out and let myself cool down again. My friend Sebastian tells me this is like forging a new steel sword...

[Kuroyagi]

Thanks for this interesting thread, kain!

I was taught -and still mostly practice it that way- that Im keeping my hands and sometimes feet cold- it keeps one young, somehow, and that I put chi into it or parts of my body when needed only. Unfortunatley my two teachers also werent very educated in a mundane or book-learned sense...i never do drugs for practice, btw only for fun and poetry and communications sake, but when I want to raise quick energy i tap into my enthusiasm -I call it that- cause originally Im a very excitablbe person....haha. No i can "conecntrate" on anger or bliss or stuff like that- it powers me up very much, its even sometimes sparking flames! lol

I have to say that i dont know about tantra but nearly everything that any tantrika of some worth is saying i can very much understand and can relate to it from my own direct life-experience (contrarily to much of whats called "magick" nowadays).

The only things that I could realte to what you call Kunadlini is intense orgasm and prolonged orgasm- and such furthering practises, and in Western systems Spare also seems to have described it which again is very sexual due to his inclination. So would you say that this energy is very sexed up then? :P

[Kain]

Thanks Kuroyagi, glad you enjoy the thread.

Well, actually, Kundalini is often likened in ancient texts with the rise of sexual excitation etc so there is a connection indeed I think. For me, I'd say that it is absolutely beyond the point physical sexual excitation can ever reach in itself though, and it can be called sexual (in a literal and not simply metaphorical way) only in a universal and macrocosmic sense, which could in fact be considered as more connected with sexuality proper than our gross understanding of it alone can provide in regards of understanding it in it's completeness. The texts liken it with the awakened desire of manifest form to unite with the transcendental and formless aspect of it, thus entering a state of non-verbal and direct activity that quickens what is otherwise rigid and innert and brings forth the underlying unity of form and formlessness, which remained veiled in mundane experience. Arthur Avalon used to liken Kundalini Yoga (and even Yoga in general) as a process that essentially resolves the equilibrium required for manifest existance to take place, not allowing it to act in any other way apart from retracing it's steps to the transcendant aspect of it, and thus also conveying the practitioner's own consciousness with it to the realization (and recollection) of that nature. I find this a very apt description of the process, personally.

Kundalini is actively dissolvative, above all else, and this is why it is likened with things like sexual symbolism (as sexual excitation is very direct, and needs no verbalization to be expressed, but is a much deeper and ambient kind of communication that transcends all label yet is instantly recognizable when present). It is an influence that undoes manifestation and formation, thus structured definition prevents it from it's dissolutional and liberating action. Still, we should keep in mind that simply avoiding formation does not make manifestation itself dissolve in any realistic sort of way (and becomes escapism rather than dissolution), unless we follow very strict paterns, and that's why although Kundalini itself is a direct experience, the process through which it becomes nurtured and awakened is very technical and precise.

Kain

[Kuroyagi]

thanks for your good answer much respect- Im not sure though if I agree with you about that its primarily dissolving (why do you think so- didnt you say that its good for raising energy)?, but thats also a matter of taste and interpretation. I can understand that the "opening up of very concrete aspects of reality into eternities/things of great scale" could be interpreted as such, its very complicated- cause also a very high form of concentration of certain things could be seen or even misunderstood as a dissolution of their original structure. I like it that it seems so physical and concrete to begin with, simply cause its a nice contrast to some western systems, like especially Plotinus and onwards (though they are also good and not "more wrong" than tantrika).

kain you seem a knowledgeable guy in this field: I would be interested in wether the tantrics have made any reality shattering discoveries in the mystical field, or have run through some sort of progression or development over the hundreds of years (respectively if they have some core teachings and methods that are valid but havent changed that much), cause I remember m1thr0s mentioning that they -though having some good teachings- have calcified a bit. (sorry btw this is off topic, maybe we can make some general tantra discussion).

[Kain]

thanks for your good answer much respect- Im not sure though if I agree with you about that its primarily dissolving (why do you think so- didnt you say that its good for raising energy)?, I say it is a dissolutional influence because Kundalini itself (which is not the same as raised energy in the chakra and nadi system, as that would be the result of simply a healthy and vibrant pranic flow) is defined as the latent activity and essence which, after manifesting the world/universe (or body), stays 'coiled' and dormant within the grossest aspect of matter (Kundalini means 'coiled female serpent'). It is not scrutinizable while one is directly partaking in manifestation, and if it does it usually causes a 'shortcircuit' since Kundalini has a natural and intense tendency to absorb formation and dissolve in the formless and if one is, simultaneously, dwelling in and *maintaining* that formation, the result is one being traumatised by Kundalini. This is reffered as a premature Kundalini awakening, and often the one experiencing it is left with much pain and sometimes impressive burn marks.

Also, the Kundalini Yoga system is often reffered to as Laya Yoga, meaning Yoga of Dissolution, because it is based on the naturally dissolvative tendencies of Kundalini. So, what is experienced as an energy rush and build-up is not, in fact, Kundalini but the heat the practitioner builds in order to awaken it. This courses through all the subtle channels (nadis) and centres of the body and can indeed be used manifestationally, yet the awakening of Kundalini inverts consciousness and directs it away from formation, so Kundalini itself, although allowing one to realize and gain much in terms of manifestational effects, is not in itself able to be conceived in any other way apart from dissolutionally I think.

The aspect of Kundalini's *descent* however, is a different subject, and it indeed is manifestational and formative in essence. This is the part where formation is naturally layed out once again in a conscious manner, increasing one's perception and ability to interact or influence it, although even in this case, this stage means the ceasing of Kundalini's manifestation and her return to latency (and the revitalization of the manifest flows of prana, being Ida and Pingala).

kain you seem a knowledgeable guy in this field: I would be interested in wether the tantrics have made any reality shattering discoveries in the mystical field, or have run through some sort of progression or development over the hundreds of years (respectively if they have some core teachings and methods that are valid but havent changed that much), cause I remember m1thr0s mentioning that they -though having some good teachings- have calcified a bit. (sorry btw this is off topic, maybe we can make some general tantra discussion).I have created a new thread here (http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?p=22303#post22303) for discussing this.

Kain

[Kuroyagi]

Here is an interesting article that I found on this subject. the author comments not only about cooling but also about certain faulty translations and modern interpretations of the nature of Kundalini. Though I am not necessarily in agreement with him about everything he writes, several things like the cooling and the more subtle nature of that cosmic force seems conclusive to me from my own experiential meditative standpoint:

The Janeshwari continues with the procedure after the purification of the subtle centres: The Kundalini stays in the centre-channel (Sushumna) of three subtle channels and pours out “of her mouth water, that becomes nectar”. This nectar in its turn brings forth a “vital wind, …. that gives a cooling sensation in and on the body”. The perception of the cool breeze is the best on the palms of the hands and at the top of our head (Sahasrara Chakra). This coolness is also described in the Koran - Sura 36, 65: “One day we will seal their mouths, but their hands will speak...”. This Sura, called “the Heart of the Koran” has the title “JS”. These are the initials of “Joga Sahadsch” as it would be spelled in Arabic. “Sahaj” means “born with” or “spontaneous”, Sahaja Yoga is the yoga of the spontaneous unity with God. The hands “speak” in such a way that each finger, root of the hand and palm correspond with a chakra and the various sensations of the part of the hand inform about the condition of the chakras. There are further hints to the perception of Kundalini in the Koran, as in Sura 24, 24 or 41, 21 and following.

This cooling energy does not only exist after the awakening of the Kundalini, it is one with the divine force, who awakens Kundalini in the individual human being and permeates the whole cosmos. In the Gospel of John, 4, Jesus describes the process of awakening to a Samaritan woman next to a well: “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him, and he would have given you water of life. The woman said to him, Sir, you have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: Where can you get that water of life? … Jesus answered, Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again: but whoever drinks the water that I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up into eternal life.” As Janeshwar uses the image of the “water” or “wind of life”, we can find the Kundalini and its effects described by Jesus Christ in the same way. - The completion of the Kundalini’s task is depicted by Jnanadeva in most beautiful Marathi poetry. The skin is only an envelope, in which the radiant being of the 17th phase of the moon is covered. The full moon, the 16th phase, has the meaning of fulfillment, completion. Only Sadashiva, God beyond all perception, is beyond that, in the illuminated Sahasrara.This was also interesting, and I'd be interested in hearing Kains opinion on this as well (Dont know if he is on the sub continent himself still)...
Through the ancient Scriptures a structure of the inner system takes shape, which is still very common in India. At the bottom we find the four-petalled lotus of the Mooladhara Chakra. In it resides the guardian of Kundalini, who represents wisdom and innocence. The Kundalini is situated above this center in the sacrum bone and therefore, at her awakening, cannot pass through the chakra placed underneath. If one tries to raise the Kundalini without authorization, then the guardian of the Kundalini sends waves of heat through the body in his temper. Sometimes these waves of heat are misunderstood as the awakening of the Kundalini, but it is just the oppsitehttp://www.sahajayoga.org.hk/kundalini_truth.PDF

p.s. just a curiosity: I myself have a very low natural body temperature, normally 36,0° (or even 35, 9°)....

[Kuroyagi]

Yes, I think the phenomena described by the Indians as Kundalini are quite relatable, even though there is tons of occultish sensationalist fire and brimstone "literature" floating around as well.

This reminded me of the daodejing no. 48, too:
Kundalini is actively dissolvative, above all else,[..] It is an influence that undoes manifestation and formation, thus structured definition prevents it from it's dissolutional and liberating action.

Those who work at their studies increase day after day;
Those who have heard the Dao decrease day after day.
They decrease and decrease, till they get to the point where they do nothing.
They do nothing and yet there's nothing left undone.
When someone wants to take control of the world, he must always be unconcerned with affairs.
For in a case where he's concerned with affairs,
He'll be unworthy, as well, of taking control of the world.

[m1thr0s]

Those who work at their studies increase day after day;
Those who have heard the Dao decrease day after day.
They decrease and decrease, till they get to the point where they do nothing.
They do nothing and yet there's nothing left undone.
When someone wants to take control of the world, he must always be unconcerned with affairs.
For in a case where he's concerned with affairs,
He'll be unworthy, as well, of taking control of the world.talk about a rock vs a hard place...kind of explains why a startling number of great minds have been way-below-poverty-level broke somehow...

m1thr0s

[Amur]

I've come to experience many different levels of kundalini energy. It appears that the energy itself manifests in a spectrum from core earth level to high subtle energy. For me the core earth level is the best and the most authentic of them all. The rest feels to me personally like some alien bullshit for spirituality. When raising the core earth level energy it is quite brutal but gets one anchored directly to the planet balances both brainhemispheres, or rather locks them both unto place. And besides the process is really natural. Didn't really detect ANY chakras of anykind when it raised like that. It was just the spine and the energy.

[Znanna]

I say it is a dissolutional influence because Kundalini itself (which is not the same as raised energy in the chakra and nadi system, as that would be the result of simply a healthy and vibrant pranic flow) is defined as the latent activity and essence which, after manifesting the world/universe (or body), stays 'coiled' and dormant within the grossest aspect of matter (Kundalini means 'coiled female serpent'). It is not scrutinizable while one is directly partaking in manifestation, and if it does it usually causes a 'shortcircuit' since Kundalini has a natural and intense tendency to absorb formation and dissolve in the formless and if one is, simultaneously, dwelling in and *maintaining* that formation, the result is one being traumatised by Kundalini. This is reffered as a premature Kundalini awakening, and often the one experiencing it is left with much pain and sometimes impressive burn marks.

Also, the Kundalini Yoga system is often reffered to as Laya Yoga, meaning Yoga of Dissolution, because it is based on the naturally dissolvative tendencies of Kundalini. So, what is experienced as an energy rush and build-up is not, in fact, Kundalini but the heat the practitioner builds in order to awaken it. This courses through all the subtle channels (nadis) and centres of the body and can indeed be used manifestationally, yet the awakening of Kundalini inverts consciousness and directs it away from formation, so Kundalini itself, although allowing one to realize and gain much in terms of manifestational effects, is not in itself able to be conceived in any other way apart from dissolutionally I think.

The aspect of Kundalini's *descent* however, is a different subject, and it indeed is manifestational and formative in essence. This is the part where formation is naturally layed out once again in a conscious manner, increasing one's perception and ability to interact or influence it, although even in this case, this stage means the ceasing of Kundalini's manifestation and her return to latency (and the revitalization of the manifest flows of prana, being Ida and Pingala).

I have created a new thread here (http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?p=22303#post22303) for discussing this.

Kain


I envision Kundalini as the entwining of the rising and descending, yet that two dimensional notion does not describe the entire irrelevance of up/down, time/space, inside/outside ... time and space are meaningless when there is no difference between UrSelves and Beloved. There is only, well, bliss.

That said, I've no parampara; I'm just a girl.

WRT to the OP - Yes, having a shawl handy in meditation is helpful and can be used to ease a posture, too. I've also a massive appetite for sweets, after any kind of working ... yummy!


ZN

[Amur]

Oh what I wouldn't give to meet an empathic girl with an awakened kundalini which would connect with me and my soul on a deep level. Think of the miracles that would make! :yinyang: