Tobacco... and second sight?

[coma_gnosis]

First, I do not advocate the use of tobacco or any other drug. I believe that drug use can easily be a dangerous thing in certain very common circumstances.

Ok. Recently I was in contact with someone who told me that while they were smoking tobacco, they were able to have a pretty intense experience, so they decided to focus on the sigil they chose to represent them. Soon after the sigil was focused on, the person said they started to see their surroundings through closed eyes (which I think might be a kind of second sight). They described it as very blurry at first, slowly clearing to show outlines and forms... They opened their eyes, and everything disappeared, replaced with their normal vision.

I'm not quite sure what happened. Maybe the tobacco induced a kind of gnosis during which they were able to use second sight?

[Anibis]

I think that a very strong distiction between corporate and natural tabbaco needs to be made. 'Ciggarettes' and 90% of commerical tabacco products are NOT pure in any sense of the term and so don't give a good gauge of what that drug is good for. I have not had quite the same experience as described aboce, but I have smoked natural tabbaco for the last few years, on and off, in a pipe. It is actually a very good purifier. If you wish to eliminate other toxins from your life, try tabacco (As you will see at any AA meeting you might go to!). Also, I understand it acts as a mild anti-schizophrenic. Might be why it is as important as it is in Shamanic uses. Get REAL tabbaco, though... it is still a bit addictive, but not NEARLY as much as ciggarettes. I was told that the smoke of tabbaco was a toxin that 'catches' other toxins and carry them out of your system. While it is certainly addictive, and I cannot imagine it being 'healthy', it is not 'intoxicating' psychologically to the same degree, so maybe that's why it is good for detox on other drugs. This is the extent of my experience with it.
-A-
P.S. I know there are Tabbaco Shamans who only use this plant. I understand that thay will smoke to the point of vomitting. I assume there is a psycho-tropic effect from this. Tabbaco overdose if definitely one of the more unpleasant experiences... I avoid it.

[fr.novumorganum]

Certainly possible; tobacco has long been used in ritual as both intoxicant and incense.

We've got some good discussions on drug use and magick going on in the chemognosis sub-forum.

[coma_gnosis]

Well, he described the intoxicating effect as a kind of pleasant light-headedness, with a bit of mind-clouding.

[Odonata]

Depending on what he was smoking, and how, there are a number of things that could have occured. The drier the tobacco, and the more airflow it recieves, the hotter the tobacco burns. The hotter the tobacco burns, the more chemicals are released per drag. The nicotine increases heart rate and blood pressure, which, depending on your friends health, could induce both light-headedness and mind cloudies. If your friend's blood pressure were to raise too much, certain visual stimulus might be perceived.

More likely is that there exists in tobacco (naturally) monoamine oxidase inhibitors, which delay the body's breakdown of chemicals such as serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine. Furthermore, tobacco tends to widen the dopamine reward pathways and encourage greater production of said dopamine. This explains the happiness.

Aside from the health risks of inhaling smoke (tobacco or otherwise), regular use of tobacco poses another particularly insidious risk. One of the brain functions that occurs with the use of tobacco is increased memory retention. This coupled with the enlarged dopamine pathways causes the 'happy' sensation associated with smoking to be deeply imprinted in the memory. While it's true that nicotine leaves the body within days, it takes the dopamine pathways months to reduce back to their normal size. That's why most smokers can never feel particularly comfy with anything unless they have something to smoke, even for months after they have quit. Hence, addiction.

All this talk has my demon all riled up. I'm off to have one.

Much Love (1/2 Black Cavendish, 1/4 Latakia, 1/4 Virginia),

Odonata

[Neither]

Wikipedia says about tobacco that it actually makes the dopamine pathways more sensitive unlike other drugs. More info: http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v31/n6/full/1300905a.html

Also a chemical additive named polonium seems to be the source for lung cancer: http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3637

Nicotiana Rustica is the proper stuff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotiana_rustica
The goal is to get as much smoke absorded as quickly as possible. The mind goes blank. And prepare for some serious vomiting. Can be much stronger than any kind of weed but not really enjoyable. But theres a lot of potential in it.

[coma_gnosis]

Wow, activity after a few months... AWEXOME!!!

So, my friend is me (described as my friend to avoid the "quit smoking" and "it's bad for you" comments that generally occur when people find out I smoke), and I smoke tobacco that's as natural as I can get (Natural American Spirit, usually). If I could get some of the Rustica seeds, I'd probably set up a hydroponic system (so as not to deplete the soil around my shed).

[AfterViewer]

:DYou Trickster!

[Sinister]

I smoke cloves, generally. And while I happened to be smoking one once, I did create quite a beautiful sigil...but ultimately one that was useless and too generic in intent. Mainly my fault in establishing a poor purpose and intent, the smoking did help.

[coma_gnosis]

HAHA! The thread will not die... Or it has and is born again from the ashes....


Yeah... Well, since I've got over the fear of others telling me this and that about the "bad health choice" that so many are convinced tobacco is, I chose to reveal that it was myself that had the experience...

If the goal of it is to absorb as much smoke as possible, perhaps a weak tobacco tea (don't drink a tobacco tea... why? look it up. Ingestion of nicotine is reportedly quite dangerous...) run through an ultrasonic fogger could induce a powerful state of gnosis... lolz. Time to break out the old fogger I got out of a mist fountain.

[AstralMagickCraft]

I drank a tea made of 2 ciggerates stirred into a glass of hot water for three minutes.

I'm still alive.

Also, it makes you want to smoke soooooooooooooooo bad.

But the mystical effects are definately a cut above a ciggerate.

(Do NOT smoke while wearing a nicotine patch, BTW, Unless you want to feel like your whole body itches like you wouldn't believe)

[fr.novumorganum]

wow, how did that taste? can you share some of the results with us?

[Filius Fortunae]

Haha. How did that taste? Yum, yum, yum?


On a semi-related note, I have been told by a female friend that using nicotine patches results in surreal and vivid lucid dreams.

[AstralMagickCraft]

It wasn't bad with some other tea leaves.

But it wasn't good either, its like delicious (tea) and anti-delicious (tobacco) canceled each other out.

Results? felt like I was high, and as though I could have gone astral, VERY easily, but I didn't care for it.

[AfterViewer]

:DGoogle: Is there a TOBACCO GOD? uh? AV.

[AfterViewer]

MayBE: http://www.tobacco.org/History/Tobacco_History.html

[Luciftias]

Nicotine's ability to induce vivid dreams is well known in the lucid dreaming discussion boards. When a dream is more vivid, it is easier to use your ingrained practices and hopefully become aware that you are dreaming. I have used this technique a few times and verified the effect. I didn't use the patch, although that is how most people do it (either intentionally or by accident.) I simply wake up in the early morning (say 5 am, depending on my current sleeping patern) and smoke a cigarette. Then I go back to sleep. I'm not an habitual smoker, although I often have some tobacco arround. I am Ojibway and when I was receiving teachings from an Elder, I always payed her in Tobacco. It was her preferred method, which is the standard. Unfortunatley it was a short lived situation, but I learned a bit about respecting the tabacco and using it ceremonially as an offering to the spirits of things.

[coma_gnosis]

Yeah, nictotine is indeed an amazing... uh... what is it? Don't wanna call it a substance or a drug...

Fine! Tobacco is an amazing herb.

As for Tobacco as a god? Not sure about deity status, but it is certainly an entity. I see it as a little girl, covered in black impish things that represent all the crap people tell me about her. During my visits, I usually pick these things off and disintegrate them, then add a barrier to prevent them from coming back.

Possibly a purely visual exercise, probably not, though. I haven't suffered from decreased lung capacity or longer lasting colds or anything like that, so...