a question re: The TwinStar

[Anibis]

M1thr0s, I've been looking at different possibilities as regards the TwinStar (http://www.abrahadabra.com/twinstar001.htm). As you have pointed out elsewhere, the twinstar yields 19 paths. I've noticed also an invisible path (from 10-1). Have you worked out a numbering scheme for these paths? Perhaps I'll try out the principle of proximity. Can you suggest any possible attributions or uses for these paths themselves?
-Ibisis-

[m1thr0s]

It would be difficult not to notice the leap from 10-1, and yet curiously it is not technically a "path". Probably more along the lines of a Shakti stream or current, but these are circumstances of convention really only having to do with the fact that in that special instance we are technically "between the worlds", neither on the map nor off it...like the space between breaths, and a mystery of its own kind and caliber.

I have not attempted to numerate these paths thus far, which is not to say it should not be done or could not be done since it almost certainly can, but it will yield something very different than the Tree of Life since our numeration is not following a strict step-ladder unfolding so much as a hop-scotching to meet the parameters of the magickal triangle numeration.

Although, it should be asserted that the Tetractys is attackable from many angles. There are different ways to approach its "magickal" qualities even in conventional mathematics. The TwinStar itself is specific application, certainly not defining of every mystery the Tetractys itself contains.

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

I believe I have found a useful application of the 19 path system, should one be so inclined. The fascinating thing is that it involves engaging a whole other magickal language which, I do not believe I have seen adequately correlated to the tree.

When we trace an energy path across the twinstar, using say, "Abrahadabra". The 4th beat does not engage a number per say, but acts as an interval in Daath. Recognizing this, once can actually extend this 'free beat' by two. In other words, after tracing the energy from one to 2 to 3, you return to 1 for the first interval, move on to 2 again for the second interval, and finally to 3 four the 3rd. This will mean that 3 pulses go into Daath, which is clearly usefull in its own right. From theis third Daath beat, you would then proceed up to 4, and then through to 10. This simple extension then enables 13 letter formulae to be encoded onto the twinstar and in turn to stimulate the tree of life.

However, the real nifty thing comes when you combine this 13 beat twinstar with the paths inside. Since there are 19+ '0', where '0' is the 'shakti stream' you describe, you can identify 20 zones in addition to the 13 beats. 13 and 20 are the key numbers to the Maya and Meso-american systems. With an adequate internal numbering system for the paths (I just worked one out using the PP), you can lay out the entire Mayan Calendar apparatus onto the twinstar. The 20 'day glyphs' go to the internal paths, and the 13 months trace the aformentioned twinstar paths. It is possible then, to follow the 'Tzolkin', the Mayan 260 day sacred count on the body of the twinstar. I think this is a pretty fine correlation, and should yield some interesting harmonics. Think Ningishzidda meets Quetzcotl!
-ibisis-

[Anibis]

It should probably be added that the 19+0 distribution of the paths is especially appropriate, since the mayan numbering system is vigidecimal, or base 20. It runs from 0-19, and as such the 0 'glyph', Ahau (which is also 20) finds a place in the space between the Twinstar 'spheres' of 1 and 10. I think it's a nice little spread, and may prove usefull in the coming years.
-Ibisis-

[m1thr0s]

wo...that's something. You do realize of course that Quetzlcotl is already widely recognized as a form of Ng, right? They aren't sure exactly how but the trail is very strong including architecture and all the rest...

I'd love to see a visual graphic on this if you get a chance Ibisis...great snag.

m1thr0s

[Kain]

Great idea Ibisis...well done! That's a really interesting application and the connection between Ng and Quetzlcotl makes this thing really appealing...

By the way, I agree, a graphical representation would be great if you get a chance in the future.

Kain

[Anibis]

Okay, first things first then. Here is an image that will give you an idea of how to manage the internal numbering of the paths. Notice that this applies to a twinstar which has been generated widdershins (counter clockwise). For diosil Twinstars, I assume that the numbering would be mirror opposite, though it needs to be tested.

http://abrahadabra.com/forumz/images/ibisis01.jpg

Notice that in the generation of an 11fold twinstar, we follow the sequence:
1,2,3,*,4,5,6,7,8,9,10.

To build up to the 13fold twinstar (May I term it the Quetzecoatl Twinstar?), we will follow the sequence:
1,2,3,*,**,***,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

Shortly I will supply another graphic which will correlate the mayan 20 day glyphs and 13 moon tones to this diagram. Suffice to say, for those familiar with the system, the 13 tones progress from 1-13 along the 'spheres' of the Twinstar in the sequence I detailed, and the 20 day glyphs go from 0-19 along the paths numbered in blue. This should be enough for anyone who knows both systems to make the correlation. Now does anyone know any decent 13 letter formulae which would be appropriate?

-Ibisis-

[m1thr0s]

Thanks Ibisis...the graphic image helps. Since most here are probably unfamiliar with the *proximity principle*, it may be a little confusing how you arrived at the path numerations, but that part of it is perfectly clear to me at least. (note: What little of the Proximity Principle I have written on can mainly be found here (http://www.abrahadabra.com/proximity.principle.htm) & here (http://www.abrahadabra.com/proximity.principle02.htm))

So your count proceeds: 1 -> 2-> 3-> (dash=1)-> 2-> 3-> 4-> 5-> 6-> 7-> 8-> 9-> 10 to yield the 13 beats you describe.

I cannot tell you or anyone else that there is necessarily anything wrong with this but I will say that I am personally a devout minimalist where this stuff is concerned and perhaps it is simply my job to be one. Our principle objective in this operation is one of linking the symmetry of the Tree into the Symmetry of the Star via the Tetractys which is accomplished perfectly well without the addition of any other actions than those minimally required to accomplish that task. I am reluctant to push the matter even an inch further than necessity itself would seem to require, but this, as I say, is sort of my job to assert.

So I cannot say, and would not presume to suggest, that this application is without its merits, since this is something that must ultimately be determined via personal experimentation. What I can say is that there is no reason for me to conclude that any additional actions are required to accomplish the primary objective as outlined above...that it does not appear to accomplish this task any better, yet requires us to go further than may be minimally required to go. For this reason I remain dubious that it may lead us down a path of designer variations that may only serve to distract us from our more attainable goal. The path of least resistance must never be underestimated in my view and a brick too many is as potentially devestating as a brick too few.

You will get truth from me here Ibisis...to the best of my ability. Never mistake this for any kind of pubescant competition. Where I have concerns, I will simply spell them out since if these concerns are well-founded, we all need to at least consider their ramifications.

Aside from that, it kind of looks and feels like a reasonable variation on a theme that would surely be worth spending a little time exploring...If you happen to light up like a Xmas Tree some evening performing this stuff, I would be more than happy to eat my reluctant words...lol

One of the things I do like about this system and have great confidence in is its relative flexibility to any reasonable experiment. We are free in all of this to give it our best shot without having to worry that we will incur some awful wrath or accidentally unleash some uncontainable Cracken that I have ever witnessed at least. The worst that can happen is that our faulty models eventually run their course and return us to whatever place best bookmarks our last most reliable position. As one gets older, time itself becomes more precious, so anything that may amount to a waste of time is something we tend to try harder to avoid.

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

Well. What I have described stands as the minimal action designed to achieve THIS particular effect. It just cannot be done with 11 beats, so on that count I think the operation is sound. Further, you write:

So your count proceeds: 1 -> 2-> 3-> (dash=1)-> 2-> 3-> 4-> 5-> 6-> 7-> 8-> 9-> 10 to yield the 13 beats you describe.


Which is a fair *description* up to a point, but it does imply that the 2nd and 3rd numbers are repeated twice. I know this in nitpicking, but I have to stress that there are three Daath-beats which have NO number that correspond to the extended red circles which I have placed on the outside of spheres 1, 2, and 3. These create a sort of triple pulse to Daath which can be pictured any way you like, I would probably see them as part of a juggling pattern. Again, the pattern is 1=>2=>3=>*=>**=>***=>4=>5=>6=>7=>8=>9=>10

In any case I would say that any elaborations or extensions of our methods have been quite simple and surgical, and that with the *Effect* of generating a resonance with the Tzolkin in mind, there is no simpler way to arive at 13:20 using the Twinstar.

You have written:

Our principle objective in this operation is one of linking the symmetry of the Tree into the Symmetry of the Star via the Tetractys which is accomplished perfectly well without the addition of any other actions than those minimally required to accomplish that task.

I respect your criticisms, and I think they are part what lend these discussions such vigor, although in *this particular case*, I will assert that in contrast to the above statement, my priniciple objective in the operation which I have outlined was to establish an operating resonance between the Tree/Star Symmetries and the Tzolkin, which requires, as a minimum, the Ley line extensions which I have described.

So it is, I think, my job to back up what I assert. A bit of background. I actually 'discovered' this application in Fall of 2003, althought it was one of those cases where I saw a possible route, played with it a bit to get a sort of a map, and then put aside for the time being, as I did with most of my occult, and magickal language work, over the last two years. Since this forum has been launched, I have been very much inspired to re-engage with the Abrahadabra-oriented practices, and the 13fold twinstar just sort of emerged as a particularly relevant player, at least in my own explorations. At any rate, I'll keep a note of it it, and we'll see where this goes.
-Ibisis

[Anibis]

Looking back at your response, my initial instinct to defend my proposal is a little more relaxed. In particular you mentioned 'designer variations'. I totally see what you mean, here. It is clear to me that the fidelity to the principle objectives of the Abrahadabra work is of key importance. The extension to 13 represents something a little different that what we have been doing, and seems to take Abrahadabra as a springboard for something else, that nevertheless includes Abrahdabra. Actually what I am proposing here has quite a strong body of backup, as I think will come out in time. It's not really like this is just a 'flash' so to speak. I would take a 'designer variation' to be essentially a superficial modification of an existing body of work for various aesthetic reasons which ultimately boil down to 'taste'. I think of the Quetzcoatl Twinstar as more of a bridge, or extension which is justified by the fact that it opens up a vast new territory of energy work (particularly time-weaving) which does no violence to either Abrahadabra or the Tzolkin. This of course will need to be born out through experiment, proof, and demonstration. I guess I will end with the assertion that the move whereby the Twinstar is counted in thirteen beats is not an ornamentation, but the shortest possible route by which a particular 'leap' may be made; one which ultimately expands our theatre of elemental possibilities significantly, and with eloquence. The energy expenditure required for the leap, does, I think pay off. Alright, back to work I go...
-Ibisis-

[m1thr0s]

Anything that persists should definitely be explored. I have other models that I occasionally work with as well, believe it or not, but in terms of Abrahadabra itself I am very careful to adhere to its own most apparent requirements. The term *designer variations* may have been inadvertently selected out for its shock-value, but certainly not to disparage your thought process or area of investigation. We run into things all the time I think that really should be explored if we are to be thorough. I have several of these projects sort of up in the air at all times. I am still wrestling with the best way to fit 27 trigrams into 22 paths without resorting to the "doubles" method of conventional qabbalah, since in the trigrams there is no good justification for this...or at least it seems that way to me...so I have naturally looked at variation Tree arrangements as a result. I could rattle off at least half a dozen of these little side-projects that are among the most frequented, and there may be upwards to 2 dozen or more sort of on the burner at all times.

So these things are important. Nevertheless, at the end of the day, insofar as Abrahadabra itself goes, my policy has evolved over time to not implement anything as *core* to Abrahadabra itself that it not ultimately required of every other aspect of its construct. Only in this way do I stand any chance of communicating its more *universal* aspects to others. You wouldn't want me to placate you for the sake of conversation I think and I have too much respect for your own work to do so anyway. You are one of the best natural *crunchers* I have run into on the internet Ibisis, so if I detect an area of possible discord, I am just going to spit it out. There is also always a chance I could be wrong. We can't know if we don't *air* it all clean.

I am a little concerned that I may still not be following your *beats*. I only listed out the numbers pattern to confirm that this is the direction the whole thing follows since I would like to work with this a little as well. Do I have the basic directional flow going correctly? Otherwise, how else are these beats occuring so as not to break the unicursal chain?

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

Yes, you have the proper flow. It would be 1,2,3,*(1),**(2),***(3),4,5,6,7,8,9,10.
As for airing it out, I am completely comfortable with hatching it out as we are doing, and agree that what we need to do is to be honest with one another in terms of our work. So that being said, I will attest that the 20:13 connection may actually NOT be *core* to Abrahadabra, but that it does synchronize Abrahadabra with a powerful magickal language that might well be a crucial technology in the coming years. The fact that we can get them working in unison, without assimilation of one to the other strikes me as a worthy project, but of course you and I do, ultimately have slightly different agendas magickally (A fact which does not put us in opposition, but rather into a sort of 'creative contrast').

I am, you will note, more of a 13 kind of guy than an 11, in the end. Here's an illustration. Just count up to 10 visualizing the Sephiroth lighting up in turn. Come 11, the 11th path opens, come 12, the 12th, come 13 the 13th. After 10 has established itself in equilibrium, 11 throws that off towards the masculine pillar, followed by 12 which then compensates for it on the feminine side at this point we are in an 'excluded middle' kind of situation. At the point of 13 Tipareth is activated by a central shaft from Kether (while also stimulating Daath. 11,12, and 13 can be seen as a kind of ternary action upon the 10 sephiroth which set the stage for a powerfull and ballanced energy expansion. I know you work well with actual pictures, so I you like I can mock one up, but I think it should be pretty clear.

In the 13fold twinstar I have drawn three big red circles outside the numbers 1, 2, and 3. these represent a sort of 'sheath' that is formed when the energy is circulated around to those nodes a second time. With abrahadabra, only '1' is sheathed, while with the 13fold formula, all three supernals aquire this buffer.

So it looks like this is NOT abrahadabra per say, but something which envelopes the grid and contains it. A symbiotic partner, I think. As for words, perhaps a simple enough addition would be as follows:

'Abra IO Had Abra'

It's not perfect, but it does resonate an IAO in Daath (or an AIO). Hey cool! that's 81! how about that...

-Ibisis-

[m1thr0s]

http://abrahadabra.com/images/unihex01.gif

13 matters a lot. Here in this example we see just how prevalent a factor it is in the Tetractys itself since what we have here is just an ascending tetractys superimposed with its descending compliment. 13 is called the "number of unity" in astrological applications. Here we see it functioning in the same capacity in the Tetractys. 13 is serious stuff.

This whole discussion brings up a very important point of order I think. One of the really exciting aspects of Abrahadabra as it has evolved in this particular line of work is the emergence of the Tetractys itself as an independant variable (and force in things). In a very real sense we are talking about Tetractyl(?) Technology in many of these discussions, of which Abrahadabra is really just one specialized application among many. It happens to be a very dynamic application...one I daresay we dare not overlook, but it is neither the first nor the last word in the Tetractys itself.

The TwinStar is an internal property of the Tetractys...not necessarily reliant upon Abrahadabra at all! Again, this is not to demean the importance of Abrahadabra, but if this word should crack or crumble or otherwise fail in some unexpected way, the Tetractys...and the TwinSar would still remain. This is powerful stuff. This truly leaves all kinds of possibilities open to us.

I am a serious stickler for context integrity Ibisis. Please don't ever take that for a personal criticism. You will see me challenge this issue time and time again. It's a major concern with me. At the same time...we need every drop of this "hidden" stuff!

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

I think we're on the right track, m1thr0s. I can definitely live with Tetractyl Engineering. Nice image by the way. That one leapt out at me big time when I first found it... Well, I think I'll take a bit of a break, and come back to try and address the treatment of the Tzolkin apparatus. Maybe I'll start another thread.
-Ibisis-

[Kain]

Priceless stuff people...keep it up! I totally love the images and ideas presented Ibisis and m1thr0s. This will take a while to digest...

Kain

[m1thr0s]

Maybe I'll start another thread. not necessary unless you really want to. I should probably lay out a little information regarding how the TwinStar is being constructed though. I think that this may be way over most people's heads through no fault of their own...

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

Okay, but I am goint to steer towards Tzolkin territory now, so it will diverge from the twinstar discussion for a moment before I bring it back.

An overview of my encounter with the Tzolkin and what we are working with:

I encountered a system a few years back called the Dreamspell. It is designed by Jose Arguelles, and is the prinicpal magickal enginery of the 'Planet Art Movement (http://www.tortuga.com/)' The dreamspell is a system which employs the sacred 260 day Tzolkin count of the Maya in conjunction with a 13 month (+1 day) calendar similar to the old Druidic calendar. It is, actually a rather lovely and elegant magickal system with a very solid mathematical foundation. There is a problem though, and that is, in my opinion Flakiness. After working for a year with this stuff, I had numerous experiences with really obnoxiously flaky people who treat this like a religion, as well as heaps and heaps of generally uncritical New-Age nonsense. The final straw was some guy who came up from England to 'visit' me, and nearly drove me out of my Bloody tree. So I decided to try and have a conversation with Arguelles; "Pacal Votan" the closer of the Cycle, who of course never responded to my request. I walked away and did other things for a few years. This system is rather widely recognized as NOT being the real Mayan count. Though the Maya had apparently upwards of 17 calendars on the go, the main count that is used now (and has been used for hundreds of years) is called the 'Long Count'. The LC employs the same 260 day Tzolkin count, but runs it concurrently with an 18 (20 days each) months +5 day cycle.

Right now, all I care to address is the Tzolkin. In both systems the Tzolkin is the same sequence of elemental units, the only difference being that the Dreamspell is synched to it differently than the long count. I have chosen, therefor to align the Tzolkin count which I will be running through the Twinstar with the Long count since I think it is a more legitimate body at this point, and the abrahadabra energy will most likely supercharge it. In any event I thought this point needed stating. All that being said, since my knowledge of how to work the Tzolkin arises from the knowledge I gleaned from the dreamspell, I will used the structures as identified therein insofar as they are equally applicable across both counts.

Okay, what is the Tzolkin? it is a 20x13 grid produced by running a sequence of 20 glyph through 13 permutations. Here is an image (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.darkmother.com/tzolkin-sm.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.darkmother.com/essentials.html&h=362&w=294&sz=54&hl=en&sig2=qEOfrd4ZMWGoyuS3iPnyew&start=9&tbnid=4IcYRBYuR3SqmM:&tbnh=121&tbnw=98&ei=gEQMRfzeMbOyiwG904ge&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtzolkin%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3 D%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN).

The twenty day signs each occur somewhere on the grid in all 13 tones. The tones are a development of the energy of that sign which rises and crests like a wave. In the Dreamspell a 13 fold sequence is called a wavespell, and a 20 fold sequence a 'harmonic run'. With the twinstar application, then it looks like we have a couple options. We can keep track of the Tzolkin by allowing the tones to follow the 13 beat sequence while the Day glyphs cycle, OR we can pick a given day glyph and project it in all 13 tones; that is send it out in a thirteen fold pulse. Additionally we could take a tone, say the first, and then back it up with all 20 glyphs, thus super-articulating that one number. I'll leave you guys with some time to assimilate this and then I'll add more.

-Ibisis-

Okay. I have gone and looked these dreamspell guys up again. They are very net saavy, they are well connected, and their system is elegant. What is it that got so under my skin? I think I'll just watch it all unfold with an open mind.

[MythMath]

...what is the Tzolkin?
it is a 20x13 grid produced by running
a sequence of 20 glyph through 13 permutations. Here is an image (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.darkmother.com/tzolkin-sm.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.darkmother.com/essentials.html&h=362&w=294&sz=54&hl=en&sig2=qEOfrd4ZMWGoyuS3iPnyew&start=9&tbnid=4IcYRBYuR3SqmM:&tbnh=121&tbnw=98&ei=gEQMRfzeMbOyiwG904ge&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtzolkin%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3 D%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN).

Okay. I have gone and looked these dreamspell guys up again...
...What is it that got so under my skin?

Perhaps you may feel that there's a pretty good chance that
the Jose A. additions and refinements to the traditional
(time-tested & Mayan-approved) Tzolkin, may not be significant...
___________________________

BTW, I've designed a kymotrope using the 20:13 structure
of the Tzolkin as a template for both the layout of the
tones and the actual sinewave frequencies to be used...

Click on thumbnail below for larger view...

I'd recently discovered that the numerical permutations unfolding
in the Tzolkin are nearly identical to the tonal layout that
revealed itself to my partner and I last year for our very first
(videotaped) kymotropic project entitled, Healix: Mirror One...

Perhaps better to present the details in another thread, though...

MM

[Anibis]

Perhaps you may feel that there's a pretty good chance that
the Jose A. additions and refinements to the traditional
(time-tested & Mayan-approved) Tzolkin, may not be significant...


I am still struggling with that. I do like the 28/13+1 layout, it's quite nice. I guess what bothers me is the language he uses, and the sense I get that this is presented as a 'revelation' rather than a piece of engineering. There is something vaguely cult-like about the way the 13:20 Dreamspell movement has presented itself. On the other hand, at this point I do not care to drop final judgement... As for significance, I think I do feel that the Dreamspell is significant, but of what, I'm not so sure. I'd be alot more comfortable with it if it was presented with more humility. I really am turned off by all the prophet declaration and so on, and couple that with bad editing on primary materials, and well, you know... Tradition at least has the benefit of not being embarrasing.
-Ibisis-
Cool stuff by the way, I can;t wait to have a closer look.
P.S. It occured to me that you could wrap the tzolkin around into a cyclinder, string many of them end to end and the 'Loom of the Maya' (that patten of dark colored glyphs) would look the the patten of scaled on a snakes back. You could make a serpent out of 73 consecutinve tzolkin grids this way (73 tzolkins mesh perfectly with 52 365 day years), and picture it eating it's tail like an ouroboros. Anyhow. All for now...

[MythMath]

ouroboros - tastes like chicken...:D

[omniprosopus]

chicken? you must be thinking of Abraxas (http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/Abraxas)

not altogether unrelated though.

-omni