Technokinesis? Or what?

[Xenocrates]

I don't really know if any attention is paid to the apparent influence on man-made devices, but I have the feeling that machines (I'm thinking of electronic machines here), being composed of many elements and using very subtle mechanics, should be specially easy to affect via psionics...

Any thoughts about the issue? I always seem to have a better time working around machinery kinks that my friends!

Really, if there's anyone out there confident in their psi, please, try to affect your machines!

[Kuroyagi]

I have found this to work, too. Already when buying a certain technical article like a laptop I can "see" (also but not only) by its form and thickness if it is better/more stable or more "hypochondric" meaning: more inclined to crash. This reminds me also of the "animistic" approach that e.g. Ramsey Dukes propagated in his "Little Book of Demons" when suggesting to "talk" to ones car or copier, or the traffic lights, as also more "normal", less trained people do.

The internet itself and many HPs and fora also have their own, intrinsic feel- and it is very easy to the trained eye to get infos or flow-patterns out of them...

In following (a bit chaotic) thread we also talked about some of this and related topics:

http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=1818

[Gibil]

The more sensitive the nature of piece of equipment the more it will be affected, test equipment ((o scopes, meters, and the like ))are the most easily affected ((Both in a negative and positive way)) where day to day equipment like television's and microwaves are not as easy.

[Kuroyagi]

I have found that greater familiarity with a device also heightens ones influence on it (also in connection with the theory that we can bestow a "soul"/an awareness to seemingly inanimate objects by giving it enough attention.). Also, at first, I had the thought that: the more complicated a machine is, the easier it should be to manipulate it. But then- upon reflecting on this line of thought and compairing it to my practical experience- I abadoned it again. A higher complexity could even make the thing harder to influence- its reactions could be more chaotic, unpredictable, yet such higher complexity could ease ones communication with it, esp. at the start of the relation. But better communication doesn't necessarily always mean agreement/ easier to control- see humans and their higher or lower intelligence. ;) (yet it opens up other, more subtle possibilities).

[Gibil]

Let's go back a second to the theory of operation as you mentioned. If you go up against some one larger than you who is charging you then you understand that trying to just run into them will just leave you flat footed, but anyone who has studied martial art's or the human anatomy will tell you that their are several places that you can strike a human being that will stop them from running or charging. The same rule also applies to electronic's as well. I have to argue the point of a machine having a "existence" as you put it, because they are unnatural object's that are not created by nature but instead by man. Similer to how a athame or wand have an inherent nature so do all of man's creations. In order to affect how something works, you need to understand it in term's of what does what and by what theory does this machine operate on.

[MythMath]

e-wands...:p

[Kuroyagi]

"iWands"...as I mentioned some months ago in a post.



but anyone who has studied martial art's or the human anatomy will tell you that their are several places that you can strike a human being that will stop them from running or charging.
Noted. I saw that you were coming from that approach in your first post already and I surely agree: more complicated, or, as you said- fine-tuned-devices are easier to unbalance or crash- even destroy, yet control-and esp. communication- is much more (subtle).

In order to affect how something works, you need to understand it in term's of what does what and by what theory does this machine operate on.Magically speaking this would not be necessary for me...any theory that is convincing should work, or at least bring some results...(e.g. I could get in touch with some weaver god and beg him/make offerings for a better relation to my computer- or simply use mind and projection on the thing directly). I agree though that this could facilitate manipulation of a thing.

On a larger scale, and on the question of consciousness, the question of mirrors...not even the creator of a thing understands the true Why of it- its nature and being...actually it seems that the question about the so-being ("why is a thing how it is") can never be understood sufficiently in this frame of today. This I think, is a question for a "later" time, for a higher consciousness that may yet already be very close, may be in some of us already- the question as it is, is utterly non-solvable right now*, but still we should try to solve it nonetheless.

Those people whose major job it is to ponder these things- "philosophers"- may discover some snipets here and there, yet we all know that philosophy has never ever in its longish history brought forth any definitive "truths". Nevertheless, I myself believe that this discipline is still important, I believe that it even has a higher function- it ought to strive but never reach; on the other hand creators artists magickians alchemists scientists should primarily create...the human nature itself is complicated, maybe it is even Universal, but be that as it may- there is nothing that prevents us to be both: a philosopher and a creator since we are both a result and an aim...

*feels wrong.]

[Gibil]

In order to understand my approach you need to understand my job, I fix electronic's for a living so let me say it like this. Electronic's at schematic level, are inherently vulnerable, if you change the value of one resistor, blow a single use, turn off a transistor when it should be turned on, you will meet with some very interesting and negative effects. I have serious problems with work and unit's that I would work on, where I received it in working order and half way through the unit would go kablooey ((I work with some serious voltage so when thing's go kablooey they tend to be loud and obvious)). Understanding the equipment is not in the spiritual sense but in a practical sense ((to understand how it funcution's in order to either help it or hinder it))

-IC's
-Transistor's
-Resistance Values.

Are what I have found to be the easiest to mess with, another technique is to work as a human surge protector and try to balance out any disharmonius voltages ((This has worked on occasion)) In my field it is not philosophy that rule's but mathematical logic.

[m1thr0s]

I don't really know if any attention is paid to the apparent influence on man-made devices, but I have the feeling that machines (I'm thinking of electronic machines here), being composed of many elements and using very subtle mechanics, should be specially easy to affect via psionics...It seems to me that your theory fits well with talismanic magick in general, although this would not typically be limited to electronic devices so much as hand-crafted objects of all kinds.

In the proper construction of a wand for instance, great care should be taken with respect to its ingredients whenever possible and the reasons for this are usually defined in terms of the types of energy *charge* the wand can handle and direct. Some woods are considered better than others...some metals preferred over others...precious and/or semi-precious stones as well...even the sheath or carrying case should not be treated off-handishly...

So I won't try to derail your specific area of focus here but only draw attention to the fact that this general way of thinking is not without precedent in either magickal or alchemical traditions. A computer, for instance, can easily be viewed as a kind of talisman. Electricity in general is typically considered the province of Mercury...but where do we find Mercury most exalted on the Tree of Life? Why, stemming right off of Crown in the form of the Magus!

Bio-electrical fields are subtle and complex as compared to the simpler binary pathways of electronic circuits, but nothing alive is without some form of electrical current. Reflecting back a bit on Kuroyagi's discomfort levels with *simplistic* cause-effect assertions, it should be observed that electricity itself has certain inherent *mystical* (ie, inexplicable) qualities not always conforming to what we might logically expect in all cases, so this in itself makes the study of electricity and its uses a valuable and a proper magickal study.

m1thr0s

[frater luciferi]

humans are electric organisms as well..and being so i dont think it would be too far off to find the interconnectivity of connetion through charged air? i have found through some heavy meditational processes it is easy enough to will the dimming of lights..or cause effect to simple devices...not joking here--willing my cell phone to stop ringing..of course i am thoroughly convinced that the entire all/ether is one great big electrical circuit..

of course one of the baser magickal beliefs is that we are not seperate from the all but merely seperate mechanisms of said all..

my own craft has moved more into using technological mediums such as the internet-media in general to put patterns into the collective unconcious...

elemental..tecknocratic magickal implementation seems very interesting though...

perhaps some exploration into the more pragmatic usage of exploring interconnectivity could be quite fruitful?

[Gibil]

humans are electric organisms as well..and being so i dont think it would be too far off to find the interconnectivity of connetion through charged air? i have found through some heavy meditational processes it is easy enough to will the dimming of lights..or cause effect to simple devices...not joking here--willing my cell phone to stop ringing..of course i am thoroughly convinced that the entire all/ether is one great big electrical circuit..

of course one of the baser magickal beliefs is that we are not seperate from the all but merely seperate mechanisms of said all..

my own craft has moved more into using technological mediums such as the internet-media in general to put patterns into the collective unconcious...

elemental..tecknocratic magickal implementation seems very interesting though...

perhaps some exploration into the more pragmatic usage of exploring interconnectivity could be quite fruitful?
Further exploration would be definitely usefull, the question woudld be "How To Explore it?", we have several different idea's and methods so how would we go about it, if your interested in this send me a message.

[Phoenix]

Further exploration would be definitely usefull, the question woudld be "How To Explore it?", we have several different idea's and methods so how would we go about it, if your interested in this send me a message.

I believe it is possible to measure it in VR (virtual reality).

My theory is that you can influence the enviroment throught the basic process of will, same goes for magik or dreams.

With a litle help of the programing itself, if oriented to react to that particular trigger.

On the fisical form of the tecnology itself it might be possible but it should be a lot harder.

stay focused...

[Gibil]

Your heading down the software path. Hardware is the nut's and the bolt's the actual components.

[frater luciferi]

Further exploration would be definitely usefull, the question woudld be "How To Explore it?", we have several different idea's and methods so how would we go about it, if your interested in this send me a message.

my main interest in using electronics is for memetic purposes...which is of course all about the software. the internet is further growing turning into a virtual collective concious. we NEED serious tools of which to grab ahold of that and help FREE people from the constrants of the societal controls that are in place.

[nonamefits]

I'm often in Firefox researching or w.e and playing around with lots of tabs. Once or twice, I've found myself wanting it to bring the previous tab I had focused to foreground when I close the current tab instead of reverting to the tab to the right of the closed one. This is a setting within Tab Mix Plus (great plugin!) I never actually changed the setting but the next time I closed a tab, bang; back to the one I had previously been focused on. Now it's behaving as if it's set to focus on the tab to the right on closing the current tab though.