Qlippothic Musings (II)

[Kuroyagi]

Recently I have coincidentally come upon an excerpt of Grants book AC and the Hidden God and this, again, has led me to his book Nightside of Eden which I am going to read. It also got me interested in the so-called Qlippoth which I plan to explore in the future.

So if anyone has hints or insights concerning this topic, I'd be thankful. I have browsed another, older thread where CCD and others also stated their interest in (and scepticism concerning) this topic: http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=876

…reading through it and checking out the links given there, I think that Michael Ford's stuff is maybe not so much for me but possibly Karlssons'. Grant is, on the other hand, very inspirational to me: not necessarily in the sense of literal but rather of poetic truth. His lack of explicitness and the techniques expressed by his writings are IMO very apt to this topic.

This is so, because, as far as I can see at this stage, the Qlippoth –or rather the method and way to approach them- could be roughly subsumed under the wider term "Unconsciousness".

Controlled dispersion and half-conscious techniques as found in things like automatic painting or writing, or poetry seem to further ones progress into that territory. As the TOL is characterized by normal willed practice, the qlipphoth are the terrain ideal to oneiric [dream] sorcery and the like. This is also the reason, I believe, why the Shells seem so dangerous to many classically schooled magicians. If you are not used to dissolving yourself in a controlled manner, and not ready to deal with death w/o prejudice and reservations but approach it with too critical- and paradoxically- with too much awareness, i.e. your magickally honed and concentrated Will, then I imagine that it could be the worst and scariest experience one could ever have. Maybe alchemists, Taoists, Tantrics and shamans would have an easier standing in the abyssal regions than many a classical Western magickian since latter often doesn't seem to be trained thoroughly in "dissolution"…?

As the Taoist saying goes: "Thus those who are in possession of the True Doctrine [TAO] are pliable in will but strong in action."

p.s. another necessity for this topic is anything about "Da'ath" (links/hints anyone?)..btw, the abra techniques have given me an incredible working/practical knowledge there...In this context rather than Knowledge itself its aspect of Communication [throat chakra], namely communication between the levels of higher and lower frequency-vibration could be emphasized and thereby it has the gateway-function, that was mentioned by several sources. Also, I wonder if Don Webb's stuff (Seven Faces of Darkness) would give some hints respective this topic, too?

[Kuroyagi]

This was x-posted here, btw. Since there are more answers there I thought to give the link (if that's ok), for information:

http://www.occultcorpus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6008

Also relevant to the topic:

AC's Liber 231:
http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/liber231.pdf

The Shadowtarot (for what its worth- haven't checked this out myself but it looks OK.):
http://www.shadowtarot.net/default.htm

[Anibis]

p.s. another necessity for this topic is anything about "Da'ath" (links/hints anyone?)..btw, the abra techniques have given me an incredible working/practical knowledge there...In this context rather than Knowledge itself its aspect of Communication [throat chakra], namely communication between the levels of higher and lower frequency-vibration could be emphasized and thereby it has the gateway-function, that was mentioned by several sources. Also, I wonder if Don Webb's stuff (Seven Faces of Darkness) would give some hints respective this topic, too?

I'm not a qliphoth expert or anything... actually I have a very hard time really discretely identifying anything in the magickal realms (having ongoing conversations with other 'beings' is hard for me to take seriously: I always get bored and go eat a sandwich), but I am good at picking out and describing certain functions and layers of a delineated system... The TOL after all is basically like a prism, and it breaks the unity of being into separate streams then re-integrates them... Actually it constructs that unity first, but that's another matter. Perhaps Da'ath is like some extraneous substance to that... some dark matter which is part of ain-soph, but not one of the streams poured forth from the pinhole of unification; rather like rough, undefined soil that seems brilliant because the light hits it, but whose substance is other than 'human', if human is the light from ain soph differentiated and progressed through the Sephiroth. I heard it said that knowledge is essentially a product of light hitting a fragmented substance, or rather a debris field... I think that works... then one could associate it with the asteroids... there are resources there, perspectives... riches even, but without the ability to 'pattern' or unify knowledge via wisdom, understanding, awareness and beyondness, it tends also to fragment the perciever/knower... It will dissolve your 'body', insofar as it is "one". Yet in ain-soph it is unproblematic... But is Daath maybe a dubious route to Tao? Like giving up your worldiness without having earned it first. A sacrifice that is too easy to make?

Do you know the Lurianic idea of Tikkun, etc? It fits I think...

-A-

:dull:

[Kuroyagi]

Thanks those are really good, inspirational thoughts there Anibis.



But is Daath maybe a dubious route to Tao?
I have instantly noticed this parallel too- also with LAM, btw. Da'ath as the gate the "how to", "pass-par-tout", they Way...the pictures of the prisms etc is cool too, maybe "In-formation" would be also apt there? But yeah I realize that Da'ath is considered as "knowing all -even the Supernals- from within via emphatically and intuitively perceiving them while not yet being them/it"...something-a method- for which I, myself also have a penchant (as a person)...and this is why I actually like it quite a lot, true...

The tikkun? Hm...wasnt that some sort of restitution-effect, or if we talk with Hegel "The Synthesis"...I remember dimly that maybe the klippoth where considered as the Daimonic with that all (low) Creation is somehow muddled/soiled and the "practitioner" ought to restitute the Balance by ridding himself from it partly in God, partly in Man as the crown of Creation....or something like that...thanks anyway, those are good suggestions for further research!...I have partly talked critically about QBL at that other forum- but what's important to me is that I feel that my convo partner is somehow "alive" in his thought process, passionate and not merely emulating some set-phrases...(else its so boring..)

[Anibis]

As I understand it the Tikkun process involves 'absorbing' negativities in order to transform and assimilate them. The underlying myth being that Ain Soph retracted itself from itself and created a negative space: into that space, beams of light were shone in order to create a microcosm of Ain within itself: Adam Qadmon. However that light, which is somewhat like a fluid, was too intense for the vessels which contained it and they shattered. As a consequence the fluid was spilt and sparks were divided from one another trapped by the shells of their former vessels. But what were those vessels made of? They seem to be made of a dark-matter implicit in ainsoph, but not part of it's 'light'. Perhaps a deeper veil? Anyways, the idea is that we now navigate a labyrinth of broken forms and lost/disconnected insights and we (at least 36 of us, anyways :))seek to assemble the full picture once more. Tikkun is the act of liberating sparks of ain soph aur from these shells... re-assembling the collective body... To me it's a kind of situational alchemy, whereby one clings to darkness and transmutes it... Also aking to the Bodhisattva function.

I don't really see it in Hegelian terms...

I see it more as a consequence of language. Direct intuition invents 'language' to model the totality (or a totality). Language creates an intensity of association/hypnosis that overides the initial intuition and breaks it. Now meaning and reality are jumbled up and disconnected. By re-connecting language and ideas in a way that produces a viable internal interdependence, we create a circulatory system of meaning: we re-build the 'waterworks' of the archetypal human. We also re-assemble the vessels: the primary intuitions, in the process. From this restored system of language we can peer once more with accuracy out into the continuum (which is itself healed). The qliphoth do not cause the delusions of language, but they exacerbate them when they themselves are in the broken state, and so 'righteous' action is mean to restore both the sparks AND the vessels. This I view as Tikkun. It brings us through to Tao, I'd say.

-A-

[Kuroyagi]

I really have to read/buy some books on classical QBL...that Adam Qadmon stuff and many other thoughts aren't stupid at all!

Yet, I- not from an inner QBL but rather general-practical perspective- would be a bit sceptical about the application or the language thing [though I realize that this may have been only an exemplification?]. We often tend to ask of language more than it was designed to do. We do this simply because it is such an unbelievable and genial invention- IMO the greatest of man- since it enables us to transmit knowledge over generations/ones physical death. Since the development of language we have thereby made advances that are exponentially greater than anything before- truely setting in motion our self-evolution. It doesn't mean though that there can't be anything better, more effective and efficent...I would be the first one to throw away my pen and take up my immortal light body...(let's see)!

Also, there is- as I just noticed- the sneaky side of such intricate theories, its religious/binding tendency: the longer you ponder the "minor problems", the more you could be entranced by its axioms/ by the system taking the fundaments for granted; in this case: that there were any broken vessels or even sephiroth in the first place- be they metaphor or more is irrelevant- yet they have the tendency to withdraw themselves from discussion (see memes/entities etc.). Meaning: what concrete form the application of those surely interesting theories would take, could be very hard to find out...maybe (can't say now for myself) too hard to be practical, still.

Contrarily, what makes Grant's works so alluring to me is that it's more like art: it could be said that he uses the TOL/TOD as a frame, only; the explicit theories therein are ridiculous in a mundane, or logical, sense, anyway but the intuitively felt method behind them makes a strong argument for itself.

But all in all- for me an interesting topic.

[m1thr0s]

Contrarily, what makes Grant's works so alluring to me is that it's more like art: it could be said that he uses the TOL/TOD as a frame, only; the explicit theories therein are ridiculous in a mundane, or logical, sense, anyway but the intuitively felt method behind them makes a strong argument for itself.I actually need to revisit Grant at this point but I agree with you as regards his *poetics*...he's very astute that way, even if his logic is sometimes lacking. Intellectual leaders tend to lead according to their strengths and those who insist on belaboring their shortcomings are generally not much worth attending to anyway as they have already missed the boat with respect to self-responsibility... I suspect that even the most enlightened of beings would intuitively leave a few holes in their *teachings*...since they have no interest in advancing cans of dogfood anyway...:cool:

m1

[Kuroyagi]

Yeah do that but don't shoot me if that shit still sounds only crazy to you. After all, I have very personal reasons to think that his writings are valid...in short, I have come to some similar conclusions even before ever having heard of AC or him and even have written those insights down (so I have proof of it to myself, too...:p).

Some of Grants (and Crowleys) things are true in a more comprehensive sense than in the one in that science or logic is true...I would never believe in anything "nonsensical" only for the sake of it being nonsensical...(ok, maybe I would but this is not one of those cases. ;)).

[Kuroyagi]

This may seem a strange comment even for this forum but I noticed that my nails especially my finger nails have grown unusually fast in the last two weeks I had to cut them twice...admittedly I have NEVER taken heed of the frequency with which I had cut my nails before but now I noticed because there obviously has been some change..curious...

My colours in the underworld are a deep violet (meaning: violent) and gold (old=immortal)...dark green as in poisonous ivy I like still...

Heaven likes harmony and unstructured or most abstract philosophical forms floating into one another but we like very concrete froms- the underworld simply loves hierarchy and pride and honour; and submission so that we can show our veiled cynicism and masochism, and dominance so that we can show our will and mercy and compassion to our lessers...and can show our specialness our individuality- we love concreteness, we love truth thats why we love to have clear-out forms, heavy forms- so that we know where we can get our claws in, so that we can feel it and truely experience it..but this is often mistaken for "cruelty". En contraire! It must be seen in relation to the rules here: we are closer to regeneration of life in the eternal waters and that is why we also take death not as seriously as those with lighter bodies- it is for the reason that we are closer to life itself...

[izi]

I feel like to be both heaven and hell...superb

[s1m0n]

The Shells are referred to in the Zohar thus:


When King Solomon went down into the garden of nuts, as saith the scripture: "I went down into the garden of nuts" (Cant. vi. 11) he took up a nutshell, that gave rise to reflections and ideas that enabled him to understand the reason and cause why anything that is pure and holy becomes environed by what is evil, as the nut enclosed within a shell. He perceived that evil spirits attach themselves to the pure and good, environing them similar to shells by exciting and producing certain kinds of pleasing emotions and feelings, the tending of which is to defile and corrupt, as it is written: "The pleasures of man produce and bring forth evil spirits" (sadah and sadoth) (Eccle. ii. 8) which occurs during the hours of sleep. It was necessary that the Holy One should create them in the world in order that it might be complete

[s1m0n]

Also from the Zohar:

The tree of good and evil is not the tree of life. The esoteric doctrine of the two yods in the word vayitzer is this: They denote and symbolize two separate creations, one good, the other evil; one of life, the other of death; of things commanded and things forbidden

[The Infinite Within]

Very interesting discussion here.


Kuroyagi,

having read Webb's "Seven Faces of Darkness", i'd describe it more as a work that allows one to place himself in greater contact/communication with the principle of Isolate Intelligence; than it allows one to, say, enter the Qlipphoth or work with it's Forces.

Props to Grant, and I think he will be more illuminating to you than Webb in this regard.

[atlantis]

"even if his logic is sometimes lacking"

A great sign of esoteric health! Grant is wonderful. Anyone interested in the Qliphoth should check of his Nightside of Eden, Hecates Fountain aswell as his occult fiction.
Thomas Karlssons book on the Qliphoth is brilliant, both from a historical and esoterical perspective. It is a goldmine for anyone interested in the dark side of qliphoth, gnosticism, hermeticism or anything closely related to these currents - or just the Left Hand Path in general.

[Kuroyagi]

Yes The Infinite Within, I have intuited that myself, too...have bought 7faces but won't read it/need it for these studies for now.

atlantis: Grant has helped me to many creative insights and given me actual suggestions on how I want to develop my Tree further in yet unseen and newly creative ways; there are literally hundreds of new perspectives and ideas I got since starting to read his TTs (read them in sequence over the last months. I am up to Beyond the Mauve Zone and only will start to read the Ninth Arch soon, too).

I also wanted to get into your Karlsson thread now but since it's locked I'll quickly post here because it is on-topic, anyway: I'm not a group or order person myself but I often look at the individuals -mostly the founders or the great individuals, dissidents and heretics, too, so I am actually interested in Karlssohn’s works. Upon some suggestion here on the forum, maybe by Fr. Luciferi, as far as I can remember, I bought his book Adulruna, recently but haven’t read it yet. Also I plan to purchase the one on the Qliphoth (maybe in German, too since the English version is incredibly expensive though maybe a new one is due out soon (?)[just cheked; the German new ed will be out next yr]); to me personally he doesn’t seem completely useless though not directly in congruence with my views either. I want to look into it for the sake of hearing some "altera pars" (differing opinion) on the subject.

7mon: thanks there for the quotes, btw! I'll have to read some more trad. Hebraic stuff too (right now Im not motivated for it and have other things to do...now I consider it as "redundant theological speculation" resp. as inferior metaphors, but that willl (have to) change in the future until having read it...(I am recently quite "set" in projective clairvoyance as pertaining to my work). Having said that, there seem to be some parallels in those quotes to my own results that I also hinted at here on the forum recently...e.g. that "pleasurable/alluring" aspect..