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Kain
09-23-2006, 09:09 PM
This thread came about due to a discussion initially started in the thread I Ching & the Genetic Code... (http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=271) , particularly generated by this (http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showpost.php?p=2277&postcount=8) post of mine where I began discussing the general approach of inter-body and inter-plane relations concerning the fascilitation, building and controlling of the Body of Light through the principle of the 3 bodies (physical, subtle/astral and causal/mental). There, I discussed the differences of approach between the more common "parallel" approach of inter-plane interraction and the less practiced, known and pursued direct interlacability of those planes, one of the functions of which is, for example, the practice of telekinetics. Commenting on Ibisis's post (http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showpost.php?p=3080&postcount=10), I write the following:
First of all, Kain, I have to say I find what you write about "Parallel & United" approaches to the three bodies to be incredibly interesting, and quite clearI'm very glad to hear that Ibisis. I wasn't sure if my description made much sense to people reading it, it's good to know you found it clear.
Wild! This is a believable account of the mutability of physical laws, something which I tend to be skeptical about. I am a magician who tends to lean towards subtleties, and to cock an eyebrow at people who claim to be able to fly or throw things about with their minds. Don't get me wrong, weirdness happens, It is just very rarely THAT weird. That's certainly a way to go Ibisis, and usually the more trodden of the two routes. Indeed it is true that that kind of weirdness is especially hard to consciously occur and requires a quite special internal wiring to make it readily possible (that, as already discussed holds some equally formidable drawbacks) , and that is why most accounts of such phenomena you find discussed are usually stark exagerations and/or plain scams.
One thing I liked about the portrayal of Gandalf in Lord of the Rings, is that he only actually does anything impossible ONCE, and that is when he creates a sort of Flare when they are snowed in by the mountain near Moriah. Then he says something like: "Well I might have just written "Gandalf was Here", all over the place". The rest of the time he proceeds by wisdom, coincidence, and 'subtle magick'. That's a realistic aspect I came to appreciate myself, and it is also something quite commonly perceived concerning the magical workings taking place in Tolkien's Middle Earth in general.
I do not mean at all to denigrate the approach you have described. It makes sense, if you were to totally collapse the separation between mind, body, and unconscious, you would have some serious siddhi's on the go, but at the same time, YIKES, That could not be terribly comfortable, and you would need to be very ballanced to keep afloat. The parallel method allows, I think for more of a margin of error, since you can experiment in one field in an isolated fashion before determining to impliment the results. That is precisely correct as far as my experience on the matter goes as well. The balances needed are immense, and the failures are as magnificently all-encompassing as the successes are. Such a configuration is deeply wired on the direct integration of Strength, and Strength goes both ways I guess...
Just a question then, Kain, what kind of measures do you need to take to stay 'on the level' in terms of working with a fully interlaced threefold body? What are the essential practices that enable you to do so without loss of ballance? Would you say that the full interlacing is somewhere that we are all heading towards, or is it vice versa, or something else alltogether. I for one can now see it as an option, but I'm not sure it's one I will necessarily take. Tell me more, I'm facinated.Well, first of all I personally think that this full interlacability is where we are eventually headed as a species. Full conscious integration of all aspects of Self would pretty much produce such an effect I think. However that is the target, and not necessarily the way to reach it, and that is something that must be stressed I think. In fact, considering the frequent sheer hostility of our current environment, it is important to choose our way/approach towards that target from a very strategic outset, taking into account our current personal place, strengths and weaknesses and acting in an appropriate fashion. The "parralel" approach is in no doubt the more appropriate one for "generic" purposes and certainly the more frequently known and used/practiced, as it's very structure is considerate of such enviromental factors and tends to naturally contain the main influence of occurances' effects in their respectful originating areas. Contact is certainly allowed between the planes, and it can often be quite extensive and co-influencial, but there are natural isolation mechanisms at work and they have a very important reason to be there.

The "unified" approach makes an extensive use of the basic mathematical laws pertaining to the relationship between dimensions, and more particularly, of certain co-ordinates and those co-ordinates' varying points of perception based on different sets of mathematical dimensions. The simplest example I could find to portray this subject matter a bit better is this:

Let us take two points in two-dimensional space. Admittedly, as long as we opperate on the basis of 2 dimensions, the shortest distance between the two points is of course the straight line. However, from the point of view of a 3-dimensional space basis, and how the 2 dimensional subspace of a, say, piece of paper can be willfully warped (folded) through the application of the 3rd dimension, we can say that the shortest distance between two points is, in fact, 0, as the two-dimensional subspace can be folded in order to have the two readily interact. Another interesting thing to note (since the actual and direct folding of spacial dimensions to fit our goals might seem a bit too drastic and unrealistic a subject) is that, although the straight line distance is downright obligatory for a two dimensional basis system, a 3-dimensional construct could simply move out of (and back into) the 2D system at will, not fully defined nor constrained by the latter in any way.

Since all this is readily applicable in not just the 2nd to 3rd dimensions basis, but in fact in the nth to (n+1)th basis, it is fair to say that through the conscious, synchronized and fully interlaced application of more than the commonly perceived and accepted set of dimensions/planes we are said to operate through would have us readily interact with objects seemingly clearly apart when viewed from the standpoint of a lower dimensional basis. It is this principle that the "unified" approach takes further and it is in fact through this principle that direct inter-plane interractions such as telekinetics function through.

So, lower sets of dimensions are subsets of higher sets of dimensions. This means that from the standpoint of the higher dimensions set, the lower dimensions remain the same and keep ticking away in their own personal rhythms (when allowed to), yet as part of a larger, more complex and equally consciously perceived system. In this way, the so-called “higher realms” can be thought of not as simply higher planes that function in a parallel fashion but as a more complete (or, “informed”) conscious viewpoint of the same essential reality.

Another important aspect to keep in mind is that the “unified” approach takes the theory and practice of training harmonics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic) to the very end of it’s spectrum of possible applications. As we know from music, harmonics are component pitches of a harmonic tone which sound at whole number multiples above, or "within", the named note being played on a musical instrument. Through the application of a certain frequency, it’s harmonics are also affected and the effect finds it’s way towards manifestation on all “planes/dimensions” related and essentially inter-connected by this law of harmonics. Such is the way the 3 bodies interract as well, and that is why what happens in one essentially influences the functions of the other 2…to a degree. Through finetuning the vibratory tuning points of the particular bodies we all the more increase the extent of mutual interraction and synchronistic relationship between them. Thus, bringing them closer and defusing the isolation mechanisms pertaining to them. This increases harmonic vibratory amplitude, resulting in a more intensely manifest and perceptible effect. Of course, this goes for both intended and non-intended effects, so a losing of balance in any of the bodies results in intense psychosomatic effects that can be quite overwhelming at points.

Now, I think it is time for talking about a bit more practical aspects, as the theoritical bases are sort of covered. As I said, this approach requires a good keeping of balance, because losing that balance can be both a lot easier and a lot more frustrating if it occurs. Shielding directed towards filtering input from all 3 levels simultaneously is especially important, as input from any of the 3 heights has a direct effect on the other two. That, combined with knowing when and how to localize an effect if need be conclude measures to be taken for preventing negative effects.

The essential practices include first of all a semi-independent perception of all 3 bodies and their respective local enviromental variables, tendencies and characteristics. Then, after the three have been sufficiently perceived in their respective parralel locations, one should try to opperate with all 3 at once, making use of their very similar anatomy and harmonic vibratory frequency to allow one to all the more openly influence the other. It is naturally evident that the bodies overlap to a degree (http://Kain.zoints.com/album/?imgid=30626), but during the synchronization session one tries to actively interlace them in one synchronistic and integrated body, a process similar to the interlation of a number of already harmonically tuned waveforms. By imposing one upon the other while having ascertained the best possible harmonic feedback, a general inter-amplification is achieved and is evident on all 3 bodies as a whole, one body’s activity now naturally urging the others into further motion. This is a very difficult state to achieve and maintain even for very small amounts of time. It offers an exceptionally deep and naturally fluent altered state of consciousness that is both crisp in physical perception yet still offering so much more information and direct influence on surroundings. Psychosomatic and generally all directly physically perceptible effects are most intense at this stage, although still relative to the personal skill of the practitioner of course. I’ve had various very interesting phenomena occur through this state, including some quite unintended ones. The almond bud (http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showpost.php?p=2027&postcount=2) incident was admittedly quite fun although I’ve had some quite frustrating energy burns (like the one I previously portrayed (http://www.forums.abrahadabra.com/showpost.php?p=2253&postcount=6)on my back) through misdirected energy in this state.

When concentration is lost one usually falls back to a state similar to the “parralel” mode/approach, the bodies shifting back to their previous singular modes of perception, consciousness tending to identify with the physical one primarrily and with the other two in a more remote fashion.
Okay, M1thr0s has brought up the 'Bi-directional method', which I mentioned to him. This might be a way, Kain, of coordinating the parrallel bodies such that they move in tandem, on the one hand, without requiring 'translation', but on the other hand being totally de-interlaced (and still functional). I need to think about that more. Basically, WHen I encounter opposites, I tend on to try to avoid priviledging one of them if I can. This often involves a sort of energy ambidexterity. That’s a good point Ibisis, and bidirectional movement/expansion is of quite a paramount importance in this field. I’m not sure about this but I think harmonics do work both way, meaning that they affect both higher and lower frequencies relating to the initially vibrant one. Also, ascending and descending currents need to be worked simultaneously and neither should be favoured over the other in any way.
I hope this is somewhat clear. It becomes useful also in adressing the issue of Whether to run the NU KUA arrangement from Kun through Ch'ien, or vice versa: you can do both at once. I Use this method all the time. I use it with the tarot, in pairing opposite paths and I use it with the twinstar. I consider it to be a sort of ambidexterity, and it has a nice ability to add the Jen component to a method that tends to be either 'one way or the other'. I really like your approach Ibisis and I hadn’t thought about the Nu Kua arrangement in this way until now! Very interesting. Mono-directional movement’s particular steps are very important to properly define although I guess we often forget the ambidextrous approach towards things and the very unique advantages pertaining to it.
Notice that I have pointed at two different approaches to this third method: the one is to build Yin and Yang silmultaneously, and the other is to build from the top to bottom and the bottom to top silmultaneously. Using BOTH these methods at once will produce the 4 hexagrams in 6 steps.
Working with the Abrahadabra key is one good way to effect this ambidexterity. It definitely takes some practice to be able to picture all this at once.I’ve sort of worked with the first one but not the second one. Very interesting stuff Ibisis…certainly a lot of food for thought for me…

Kain

Anibis
09-24-2006, 10:46 AM
Wow, I really like your explanation of the dimensions. It's funny I use the same approach, but with a different slant. My work is related largely to regulating the flows of time, and creating 'Vehicles' and enclosures of sorts that consolidate multidimensional regions. What this basically means is that I think that when we our consciousness is confined to the so-called third dimension, it is open to all sorts of nasty and random influences (uncontrolled probabilities), SO, the thing to do if of course to 'cover' the 4th dimensions magically. I know this is 101 to you so I'll be brief. In order to attain autonomy I have had to generate fields which echoe in the higher dimensions such that I can cultivate certain properties within those fields and diminish others. Furthermore this magick involves the manipulation of higher dimensional objects and structures such that they intersect with the '3d' word at multiple points. This accounts for sychronicities, momentums, and so on that allow my experience of time to be less impeded by higher dimensional 'noise' or other sorts of interference. I am typically satisfied just to have things run 'smoothly, and enjoy doing the things that give me satisfaction in this world without much abrogation of it's laws, although I see how such abrogations would work. I am inclined to think that '418' opens up a sort of force-field which lets us relax into the space of our own lives while at the same time requiring of us that we take full responsibility for said space. It's like a gravity well. The various magickal formula and words essentially create, maintain, manipulate and extend these higher dimensional field in sometimes more general, sometime more specific areas. Essentially it enchants the world without breaking it. I am fascinated to hear of your account though and would like to gain an idea of what sorts of excercises actually fascilitate the cross-wiring you describe.
-Ibisis-
P.S. I do not wish to lead anyone to the belief that I am 'locking down' the dimensions into some sort of fundamentalist paradigm. Though, yes I am working with closed systems, I am working with several, and this occurs in an open ended field (we might call this Tao, or Ain Soph). Since open-endedness is essential to really approaching this stuff freshly, I would not advocate any 'final closure', although I strongly feel that in certain cases an energy system must be closed (or completed) to be effectively integrated along with other energy systems. An energy system is ultimately a sort of orgam (ism). I hope this is somewhat clear.

Anibis
09-24-2006, 04:18 PM
Also, ascending and descending currents need to be worked simultaneously and neither should be favoured over the other in any way.

I have found this to be most informative when approaching the task of pathworking the Tree. If you proceed from XXI up to 0, or from 0 to XXI, you will always be encountering either a ultra-light or ultra-heavy energy. For example if you have trodden the so called 'path of the serpent', by the time you get to ATU 0, you have essentially undone the various codes of neccessity that apply in the world. This however can leave one unrealistic in terms of the actual conditions of their existance. I find, for example that mystics are often always 'climbing upward', seeking beyond themselves, or transcending the mundane in a way which is sort of stereotypical. I think that combining the ascending energy with a paired descending energy is likely to create a more ballanced approach. The way I tend to do that is to Pair all the Trumps (by letter)with their polar opposite (see the thread on Tarot). This way each trump is essentially one of the two triads of a Magen Star. Since the pair is always such that the ATU total is XXI, we get an added hint of this in the fact that we can mathematically derive 6 from 21, since the sum of 1-6 IS 21. This technology enables silmutaneous ascent and descent of the Tree of Life. Mind is Grounded, and Matter is Inspired, so to speak. In total there are 11 of these paired-path hexagrams, a number which is of course very suitable for the work we do with the Twinstar. I term these 'Radial Pairs', and the qabalah of being able to exchange letters for their radial partners is called 'Radial Qabalah' (Actually The Hebrew term for that excecise was AThBSh, and from it some very nifty word puzzles were found). Note that the same strategy which applied to the bi-direction generation of I Ching Hexagrams applies to the whole tree: We can the paths from the ends inward such that we activate all the paths in just 11 stages. Anyway. It's worth thinking about, I'd say.
-Ibisis-

Kain
09-24-2006, 04:31 PM
Wow, I really like your explanation of the dimensions. It's funny I use the same approach, but with a different slant. I'm glad I made sense Ibisis...I was afraid that post might be impossible to make out. You see, all my mathematics and physics education has been conducted under Greek terminology so initially it's a bit of a nightmare trying to find the appropriate correlative terms and phrases in English, as this stuff can hardly be found in general Greek-English dictionaries...

I'm very glad to hear you approach things in a similar fashion, for many years I've hardly been able to even discuss the rammifications of most of this stuff.
My work is related largely to regulating the flows of time, and creating 'Vehicles' and enclosures of sorts that consolidate multidimensional regions. What this basically means is that I think that when we our consciousness is confined to the so-called third dimension, it is open to all sorts of nasty and random influences (uncontrolled probabilities), SO, the thing to do if of course to 'cover' the 4th dimensions magically. I know this is 101 to you so I'll be brief. In order to attain autonomy I have had to generate fields which echoe in the higher dimensions such that I can cultivate certain properties within those fields and diminish others. Furthermore this magick involves the manipulation of higher dimensional objects and structures such that they intersect with the '3d' word at multiple points. This accounts for sychronicities, momentums, and so on that allow my experience of time to be less impeded by higher dimensional 'noise' or other sorts of interference. I am typically satisfied just to have things run 'smoothly, and enjoy doing the things that give me satisfaction in this world without much abrogation of it's laws, although I see how such abrogations would work. Very interesting approach Ibisis! A differentiation and "noise-reduction" of sorts imposed upon the dimensional basis constituting the physical plane we consciously inhabit then. I see your point...I guess I do the exact same thing but aiming towards consciously realizing "local" abrogations as a law of a higher set of dimensions.
I am inclined to think that '418' opens up a sort of force-field which lets us relax into the space of our own lives while at the same time requiring of us that we take full responsibility for said space. It's like a gravity well. The various magickal formula and words essentially create, maintain, manipulate and extend these higher dimensional field in sometimes more general, sometime more specific areas. Essentially it enchants the world without breaking it. Precisely my viewpoint as well..."Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole of The Law" as is often said, and that naturally brings about equal responsibility, even if it is self-responsibility. A process of maturation and coming towards accepting oneSelf's Duties and Consequences of one's Actions.

As for enchanting the world without breaking it, that I think is the real issue for culminating *Technique*, as things become a lot more dire for one's own Self when acting awkwardly in such realms the more such isolation mechanisms are suspended.
I am fascinated to hear of your account though and would like to gain an idea of what sorts of excercises actually fascilitate the cross-wiring you describe.Well, first of all, as you know the anatomical constitution of the Bodies does not change. The Sephiroth/Paths, Chakras/Nadis etc are manipulated in a standard fashion, but what is of utmost importance is the internal constitution of those constructs and their trained frequentioal tuning points. There is a lot of finetuning to be conducted so that inter-plane direct influence and communication is optimized, and that is what this approach is actually after. Breaking the differentiations and allowing it all to be consciously realized as a complete, unified and internally integrated system.

So, initially, we will want to get a good feel of the anatomiy of the 3 bodies. This is like realizing the anatomy of a single subtle construct, but in this fashion we are actually tracking the same centers and energy channels in 3 different energy densities. The different bodies encompass a different spectrum of local frequencies, yet they naturaly interract with one another through harmonics, much like a note can be traced in multiple octaves (so the Body and it's anatomy can be found in multiple planes and spectrums). Practically, this has us trace over and over each one of the bodies' anatomical outline and then observe the relationship between those bodies. Each center and channel will have a threefold "incarnation", and all 3 must be methodically aligned and the "noise" between them eliminated. It is not too different from tuning a musical instrument with multiple chords. We know the note we want to tune, yet each of the chords needs to be finetuned accordingly so that the total instrument's collection of chords' tuning points (and assorted vibratory "emanations") reconcile with one another. The local frequency spectrum for each chord is different yet that does not affect us, as we intend to have the chords interract with one another optimally, and we identify with a note's "archetypal" nature rather than a certain incarnation (frequency within a particular octave) of it.

So, even though the 3 bodies are semi-apart, by this practice we tune them in accordance, and perceive One Body in 3 simultaneous spectrums, and with emanating ramiffications in all 3 of those spectrums. So the One Body (while in all planes) cannot validly and consciously exist unless the particular bodies synchronistically "produce" it through harmonic co-emanation. Graphically, it is like fusing the 3 equilateral triangles in my previously portrayed image in one, or changing our conscious perspective so that they innevitably look and function in so intense accordance that the bounds are nearly indistinguishable. I am going to portray this graphically as well, soon enough.

A classic excercise I use with this aim is this: Initially, I conduct a general subtle reconessance, providing me with an idea of how the subtle equivalents (bodies) are and behave. I work with standard energy manipulation excercises, breathing aiming towards opening up and awakeing the various aspects of the bodies. For the moment I have a rather scarse direct perception of the causal body compared to the other two but it is hardly a problem to conduct the excercise. Now, once the 3 equivalents are perceived, inter-synchronization begins by affecting the energy constitution of their parts (this mainly refers to the 2 subtler of the 3, although the physical body does behave in incredible sync with those when allowed to, showing immense changes in muscular tension, blood flow, heartbeat rate etc). Through affecting and modifying their energy constitution, their frequentioal tuning points change and can be re-tuned. Then, the whole system is utilized for the direct manifestation of an initially purely causal construct/thought that is as practical and directly verifiable as possible. Most of the time I prefer to use variations of the standard telekinetics excercise, the pin-wheel, although there are other things I also work with. The frequential grounding of the vibration constituting the thought is traced and followed all the way through it's trickling down until it hits the said object(s) and manifests the movement desired. The factors taken into account are time between initial causal vibration and physical manifestation, the precision of the manifestation compared to the initially desired effect, the vibration's ease of conveyance throughout the bodies, the amount of direct interlation achieved between the bodies (for instance, if this goes well enough, the very causal vibration of the thought directly brings about the creation/emanation of a subtle/astral equivalent vibration which then is almost equally directly manifested. So the distance between physical reality and the initial thought can be mathematically portrayed as a mathematical limit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limit_(topology)) towards the value of 0), the sheer amount of direct strength portrayed through the grounding of this thought, and other such factors.

Usually, even though results may come about in various altered ways (time delays, opposite direction of movement, wrong speed, wrong object that has similar shape etc) I tend not to take account of them unless the manifestation is direct and absolutely volitional. So, I usually do not take into account delayed movement (compared to my initial "go" word), as that shows lack of correctly wired harmonics and interlacability. I do count occurances where the strength portrayed is less than I'd like or had originally desired, and such occurances are actually very helpful if seen from a trial & error perspective as they provide a very good way to measure power of direct manifestation. Usually, getting less strength than I desire shows that I need to interlace the bodies in a more complete fashion and try again. I may also initiate a grounding/manifestation upon the object and then use it as a *gauge* of sorts that shows how well am I doing with the interlation (the better I do, the more effortlessly and strongly the manifestation occurs, so the object moves more violently and directly). Other tests can be made, like causing 3 such objects to rotate at different directions and speeds, or urging an object rotate as potently as one can manage and then abruptly stop it and have it turn towards the opposite direction. That is usually quite impressive, and you can see the effects of successful interlacability through attempting to have the object always respond to your commands on the very conception of them (so the object would have to conduct the forceful stopping and opposite rotation at the very moment the command was mentally entertained). It is interesting to excercise unnatural movements such as this (as the object would more likely tend to slow down gradually rather than be instantly still, much less moving towards the opposite direction) and at times this can be done so fast that it seems like you've had a memory lapse or something as the object behaves like it never stopped moving and continues on with the opposite rotation...

I've probably flooded this thread with the vastness of this post so I'll probably shut up now :) It's a very interesting subject however, and interestingly not very popular...

Kain

P.S. Actually, the open-ended field is most important and actually necessary Ibisis so I readily second your expressed viewpoint in your P.S. ...

Kain
09-24-2006, 04:40 PM
This however can leave one unrealistic in terms of the actual conditions of their existance. I find, for example that mystics are often always 'climbing upward', seeking beyond themselves, or transcending the mundane in a way which is sort of stereotypical. I think that combining the ascending energy with a paired descending energy is likely to create a more ballanced approach. Certainly and this is downright essential for this whole thing to even work, and exactly what most of us are so often forgetting...There is no point in "ascending" when we do it only to escape from Descent. It will always be a lost case in that context, and can only be won by no longer fearing but actively burying our feet deeply in the Earth and working with it and it's properties...that's the only way we fare even a chance for attaining Heaven, and panicky retreats will do us no good without a solid basis. There's no point trying to climb while legless...

By the way, your description of Radial Pairs is very interesting indeed Ibisis. I'll have to think about that one...

Kain

Kain
09-24-2006, 09:16 PM
OK, how about this:

http://kain.zoints.com/image/33415-FrequencyManifestationChart

In the above image, we see a chart depicting the relationship between vibratory frequency and manifestation, pertaining to the previously depicted image of the 3 Bodies and 3 Gunas:

http://kain.zoints.com/image/30626-3Bodiesand3Gunas



As we see, the previous image constitutes a projection of this graph onto the f axis, meaning that it is an image charting the full frequential spectrum we opperate in. The chart on the other hand portrays the semi-independancy each of the progressive emanative stages (bodies) posesses in relation to manifestation, and how the interplay between manifestation and frequency plays out.

Perhaps what I was previously reffering to as perceiving the One Body is now clearer:So, even though the 3 bodies are semi-apart, by this practice we tune them in accordance, and perceive One Body in 3 simultaneous spectrums, and with emanating ramiffications in all 3 of those spectrums. So the One Body (while in all planes) cannot validly and consciously exist unless the particular bodies synchronistically "produce" it through harmonic co-emanation. Graphically, it is like fusing the 3 equilateral triangles in my previously portrayed image in one, or changing our conscious perspective so that they innevitably look and function in so intense accordance that the bounds are nearly indistinguishable. I am going to portray this graphically as well, soon enough.
It is interesting to note that from the viewpoint of the One Mind, the direction of creative emanation, Manifestation is conceived as One Body, simultaneously mirroring itself and affecting various overlapping frequential spectrums. So through this conscious perspective change (perceiving the bodies simultaneously and in a fully interlacable fashion) we also "see" things from the perspective of the One Mind, seeing past the inter-plane differentiation and looking straight through the full spectrum for the first time, from the top to the very bottom...

http://kain.zoints.com/image/34590-Integration

Kain

m1thr0s
09-27-2006, 01:01 AM
I haven't piped in much on this conversation mainly because I have been so busy with other tasks and this is a kind of a heavy-weight topic requiring a good deal of thought and a certain amount of personal computation work. It's really great to see you guys taking off on this and I am thrilled to see you coming out with some graphics work Kain...it can't be stressed enough how important that is I think.

It's useful to me to see things being discussed in detail that I have long taken for granted, forgetting that it was not always so and that at some point in time I sat down and hammered out these very same issues pretty much in isolation. My conclusions were much as you both seem to be arriving at here...that working in ascending and descending modalities in a balanced tandem is vital to a balanced progression overall...even if it might be more difficult at times. This additional difficulty is more than offset by the additional strength acquired both mentally/emotionally as well as in raw energy itself.

It is a great pleasure to me to see more of the ayurvedic language brought to bear in things. I have always known that working in trigrams had powerful resonant parallels on numerous other levels and the Gunas/Etheric Bodies model is certainly one of these. I am struck with the obvious observation that the spheres (of influence?) residing at poles is very similar to the notion of the Twin Akashas only rarely discussed in Tree of Life writings. In this model one form of Akasha (spirit) resides in the above and the other in the below. The images being put forward here are very reminescent of that I think.

It is also of great interest to me that any part of this whole radial pairs thesis can be physically tested out in hexagrammal construction directly. I have experimented with various approaches at this over the years and even now find myself considering new possibilities not sufficiently exhausted as of yet. In the bija mantras one always builds from bottom to top as a starting point and many people leave it at that but there is no particular reason not to come back down (and many good arguments for doing so). By the time I got very far into hexagrammal fields I dicovered that working only in one direction or the other left me feeling lopsided and agitated...oftentimes in the extreme. The solution was fairly obvious and to this day I always work in both directions, though I am actually hesitant to employ them at the same time for reasons we can discuss at another place I think.

Anyway...I appear to be rambling. The short story is...I very much endorse the notion of working in balanced oppositions of all kinds and I also believe one gets the best bang for their buck by starting from earth and winding up back at earth. It is of some interest to note that in the tetractys itself this actually amounts to beginning and ending at center, or the "singularity" point as I think it can be rightly called...

m1thr0s

Kain
09-27-2006, 07:53 PM
I haven't piped in much on this conversation mainly because I have been so busy with other tasks and this is a kind of a heavy-weight topic requiring a good deal of thought and a certain amount of personal computation work. I know m1thr0s...and I'm actually in a deeply hard-pressed situation myself at the moment, but I luckily managed to make me some time to write and post some of this stuff! Your input is greatly appreciated...
It's really great to see you guys taking off on this and I am thrilled to see you coming out with some graphics work Kain...it can't be stressed enough how important that is I think. I know, thanks m1thr0s! Yeah, I seem to be getting a bit more comfortable with graphics compilation so I felt it was time to lay some of this stuff down graphically as well, as I've got tons of hand-drawn charts lying around here but they look like crap really compared to what can be done digitally...
My conclusions were much as you both seem to be arriving at here...that working in ascending and descending modalities in a balanced tandem is vital to a balanced progression overall...even if it might be more difficult at times. This additional difficulty is more than offset by the additional strength acquired both mentally/emotionally as well as in raw energy itself. Yes, I feel the same concerning this. It is a great pleasure to me to see more of the ayurvedic language brought to bear in things. I have always known that working in trigrams had powerful resonant parallels on numerous other levels and the Gunas/Etheric Bodies model is certainly one of these. I am struck with the obvious observation that the spheres (of influence?) residing at poles is very similar to the notion of the Twin Akashas only rarely discussed in Tree of Life writings. In this model one form of Akasha (spirit) resides in the above and the other in the below. The images being put forward here are very reminescent of that I think. Yes, I've often thought of this as well and it is a very interesting correlation...good point m1thr0s, thanks for bringing this up!In the bija mantras one always builds from bottom to top as a starting point and many people leave it at that but there is no particular reason not to come back down (and many good arguments for doing so). Certainly...it's interesting we don't often see this discussed. It is said that Kundalini work is divided in two structured "parts" however...one awakening and guiding the Kundalini force from the earth upwards, through each of the lotuses and bija mantras, and the other eventually lowering the Kundalini force back down again (through the very same steps, but conducted backwards), infusing the body with the essence of the Supreme Union which was conducted at apex...


Kain