My Eternal Love

[Amur]

What if, you've all lived for an Eternity, without knowing it... What if you've lived every lifetime and moment just for the one you love and always loved from the very beginning of Existence itself. You have never met Him/Her.

I believe that I have met my Creator/Supreme Being and God. Superior Magickian and Supreme in All Regards.

[m1thr0s]

eesh...talk about dysfunctional time management...lol...

well there may be something to the thought anyway. I have considered this question quite often in relation to the TwinStar for instance, the whole concept of "male-female-quintessential-one" ness. People talk about their "soulmates" etc. I have never felt as though I have actually met any such person in this world and don't very much expect to anymore. I think we are easily deceived in this whole area. People we WANT to be our soulmates who actually are not in the end etc...

So I have a hard time imagining my feminine half. I am a very masculine sort of person...If I have a feminine side I don't think I have ever seen it. Nor have I found its equivalent in the world at large. Yet in vision states I have been very aware of a distinctly feminine presence...something very akin to the idea of Nuit for instance...goddess type intelligence that I only seem to be able to interact with at very lofty altitudes. I am reminded of the switch Crowley made to the Star card that effectively places the Emperor on the opposite end of the univese from the Empress. She is ever Macrocosm to his Microcosm etc...

Maybe that's what's up...maybe I am playing out the life of the Emperor...who knows...

m1thr0s

[Alisa]

I believe that I have met my Creator/Supreme Being and God. Superior Magickian and Supreme in All Regards.

I am intrigued and would really like to hear more about your experience if you wouldn't mind sharing it. :)

[Amur]

I am intrigued and would really like to hear more about your experience if you wouldn't mind sharing it. :)

I'm sorry but I can't describe the event(as that would compromise my memory window of purity to the event at the moment as it's quite damaged in many aspects), so perhaps later... You know best yourself Within. All I can say is that I got bestowed with Mercy, which filled over the cup, and a task of purifying, beginning with myself, and since I've harmed loved, Bestowed upon the lesson of learning to love. :)

well there may be something to the thought anyway. I have considered this question quite often in relation to the TwinStar for instance, the whole concept of "male-female-quintessential-one" ness. People talk about their "soulmates" etc. I have never felt as though I have actually met any such person in this world and don't very much expect to anymore. I think we are easily deceived in this whole area. People we WANT to be our soulmates who actually are not in the end etc...

I've met many who seem to think that they have fallen in love with me, but I'm quite unsure about the concept of love yet so I have no idea. I believe more in the story that they have seen something so beautiful that they would like to excess control over it. Which might be one of the reasons for this terrible bad astral scent. I'm still young so that might be a factor involved also. For some reason I don't think that I will find her here either. So I guess that makes me pretty much a hermit type of guy. Atleast one way to recognize her would be a strong personality, that wouldn't go insane from reality fluctuations. Considering how messed up this world is and how little 'true' connections there are from my point of world-view, I think that a way is to set things like they are (got already quite the task with myself), which again is quite the project, and at the same time I would like to keep my own sanity and personality along with having somekind of income to get back to a place which would encourage this type of research. And to not become a no-lifer, social contact would have to be upkept also. Perhaps starting with an inside-cleaning operation, looks quite alot like a hackers joint with coffee stains all-over the place along with poorly documented source-code that none can understand....

[Radiant Star]

This sounds very much like an experience I once had and I have come across very few who have admitted to having it, maybe they haven't or would not desribe it in terms of 'overflowing'.

Certainly a life-changing event, but not sure if it is THE event, there may be more like this to come.

[Luciftias]

I personally feel that the union of male and female to be one of the greatest mysteries that I've ever encountered. The process of uniting the male and female parts of ourselves is acted out in the so-called "waking world" through proxies. We form romantic relationships so that both partners can act out their internal male-female dynamics. Typically, if one partner in a romantic relationship can no longer unconsciously pretend that their girlfriend/boyfriend is actually their internal contra-gender pair (aka "soul-mate"), they seek out a different partner that will be a better proxy. As long as this is understood - that your real "soul-mate" is internal - I don't see it being a problem to consider your partner as the external representation of your soul-mate. I also believe that any issues that you are unable to resolve with your current partner will just resurface in the next relationship until they can be resolved.

Luciftias

[m1thr0s]

I don't see it being a problem to consider your partner as the external representation of your soul-mate. I also believe that any issues that you are unable to resolve with your current partner will just resurface in the next relationship until they can be resolved. I agree that it doesn't have to be a problem. I just think it often is one. But then, I admit that I am coming off of a relationship that should have lasted a whole lifetime that somehow took a very bad turn and disintegrated almost overnite after 15 years of commitment to it on my end...and there really was no good reason for it and nothing to discuss at this point. But it leaves me acutely aware of the fact that we never really know each other as much as we think we do and these barriers are all part of the human condition in general.

m1thr0s

[Alisa]

In pondering the idea of soulmate, I have come to believe that possession of an exclusive mate (soul or otherwise)--monogamy--is based on fear. Fear of being left with no security if you are financially dependent upon your mate. Fear of being alone if your mate finds someone else that they want to become intimate with.
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The need to commit is probably legitimate based on a society where there is inequality of wealth, status, safety, and security. But in trying to sort this out in my mind I thought...if everyone was independently wealthy, equal of status and respect, and no one felt the need to commit permanently, people could freely commune (sexually or simply intimately) with each other as desired without the fear that to "commune" with someone new that you found utterly fascinating meant that you had to disconnect completely from the person you were currently with because you can only love and connect with one person permanently, or at least at a time.
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This leaves you virtually chained and stunted in ability to connect deeply with others because you are in an either/or situation with lots of risk involved.

[m1thr0s]

I've had my eye on "intentional communities" for some time, in part due to what you have just said Alisa. Unfortunately they have an abysmal batting average in general, particularly in more afluent societies. But one of the main ideas behind (many) intentional communities is to try to break down the kinds of isolation we are forced into with respect to all stages of life, with perhaps special attention payed to the elderly which, unless they have a lot of money stashed aside, are typically facing a horrendous nitemare as their "usefulness" begins to wane.

But it actually affects all of us at whatever stage of life we are at. Society has become increasingly more about money/property and less about people over the years until people only really exist to grease the wheels of industry and commerce. But it's very difficult to establish viable alternatives in the belly of the monster itself. Over 90% of intentional communities go belly up within the first 5 years of operation and it's often a very ugly sorts of dissolutions with lawsuits and all the rest. So it's hard to know if it will ever really amount to anything.

m1thr0s

[...]

It's funny what you said about old people-- I have a pair of grandparents.. who ignored my family until about 4 years ago.. (which broke my dads heart...) ..And then suddenly they began squatting in my parents back yard until my mom got sick of it.
Now they've been in an accident and the grandmother broke her back.

They're old and in poverty. My parents will have to take care of them, because the rest of their family hates them.

I have absolutely no sympathy. I think that their current situation is THEIR fault, due to their lack of planning and efficient living. The fact that they're leaning on my parents, whom they IGNORED for decades, is absolutely shameful.

*I* think that 'the system' is just that-- a system. If you fail to live in accordance with it, that's your own damn fault. If you make bad choices your reap bad consequences.

Maybe I just hate my grandparents... It is something to mull over.

[m1thr0s]

well, ..., I think your attitude is just a little on the smug side of life to tell you the truth. I don't know about your grandparents. They may just be a pair of jerks, end of story. But people fall through the cracks for all kinds of reasons in this world...not always because of "bad choices" as you say. People gamble and lose more than they win. For every one successful writer there are thousands of unsuccessful writers standing right behind them. For every successful artist, poet, philosopher, scientist etc. I have seen people get screwed in so many ways it would make your head spin to really think about it. I know a guy who was on top of the financial world, bank president and all of that who got hit with progressive schizophrenia, to which there is no known cure. I grew up in foster homes myself until I couldn't take it anymore and took off on my own to be a "street kid"...there was simply nowhere else to go really...

Sure the system is just a system, but it's a system that doesn't give a shit about people and that's the problem. I've made "bad choices" too...spent my whole damn life trying to understand the Body of Light which virtually no one in this culture gives a crap about. Never made any money at it and probably never will. You could call that a "bad choice" too but it doesn't mean shit to beans really...people often do what they have to do whether it makes any sense or not, driven by something higher than themselves to become something greater than themselves. Most of the really enlightened people we know about and revere are people who made "bad choices" economically, socially, whatever. Many times you simply have no choice but to make sacrifices you would rather not make to accomplish things you would not be able to accomplish any other way...and there's no guarantee you will succeed when you take these kinds of risks.

But I am not looking at just my own situation and I am not just looking at the isolated situations of whatever few people I know. All I am really saying is that we have succumbed to a divide-and-conquer mentality that no longer recognizes a basic human rights of any kind really. If you have thus far been shielded from that reality, hey, good for you...but it doesn't qualify you to pass judgment on those who have not, and really, your number will come up eventually one way or the next.

People have every right to make "bad choices" (in good faith) and they also have every right to recover from those and move on. The fact that this is becoming harder and harder to do is not a good thing for anybody, though the solution is nearly impossible to imagine at this point. I am not even sure that there is one.

m1thr0s

[Alisa]

Very interesting about intentional communities, m1thr0s. :) I was thinking more along the lines of polyamory, which is "the practice or lifestyle of being open to having more than one loving, intimate relationship at a time, with the full knowledge and consent of all partners involved". Something like this anyway. Maybe not "full knowledge and consent", as it wouldn't matter because there would be no intent of possession.

[m1thr0s]

the reality is that people are quite capable of loving many different people in many different ways and everybody knows that really. we wind up playing both ends against the middle depending on whatever set of rules we were born into. nobody really knows what the correct rules even are and they vary so much from culture to culture that they ultimately appear to be completely arbitrary anyway.

I try to project into the future sometimes and imagine what the rules might be there. will marriage become a thing of the past or will we simply acknowledge separation to be a normal part of things for most people and seek to make that as fair a process as possible? Moreover, I think human nature is still sorting itself out and systems will gradually change as people demand it more.

The legal profession, in particular, is one that has swung from one extreme to the other historically and this has been a cause of much unnecessary hardship to real people in real time having to contend with trumped up laws that have nothing to do with reality at all.

I can't help thinking that what we really need is a whole new kind of "country" governed in a whole new kind of way, both militarily and economically unencroachable somehow... I just don't have much faith anymore in things getting very much better from within, but I could be wrong about that. I guess only time will tell...

m1thr0s

[Alisa]

I truly appreciate your insight, m1thr0s. :)

I still feel that if there was no insecurity (some how, magically) then people would not need commitment. They could realize that self-love is omnipresent, so there is always fulfillment, and that with a society full of uncommitted people, there would always be someone else to share with at any given time anyway.

The whole idea of commitment is that someone promises to stay with you, be loyal to you. So if they find someone else that they are interested in, they promise not to pursue this any further despite the fact that this new person might add an amazing and important dimension to their life. To me, this goes against "will".

I appreciate the chance to speak and develop my thoughts on this. It is helping me work it out. I also welcome any comments pro or con.

[Luciftias]

There are two biological forces at work here that are in oposition to each other. The whole "pair-bonding" thing. When two people are in love, they naturally want to form some kind of unity with each other - sharing everything and developing deeper levels of intimacy with each other. However, there is also the biological urge to diversify the gene pool through having multiple breeding partners (and not necessarily anything beyond that.) How each person deals with this natual conflict is a personal decision. I honestly doubt that the worldwide healing of insecurity would result in universal polyamory. I'm sure there would still be a fair share of exclusive couples around. It is difficult to imagine being able to reach the same level of true intimacy with another person without engaging in some form of exclusivity with them. There is something to be said for "focus." Dealing with the issue of polyamory head-on is valuable, for sure. However, I don't think it is an inherently superior choice. It is just one possible choice and that's all.

Luciftias

[Alisa]

Very well put and reasoned, Luciftias. I enjoyed your post. And I agree polyamory is just one possible choice and that many people are quite comfortable exclusively committing longterm. And just to clarify further (for myself even), I'm not necessarily thinking about "free love" in my concept. More like being in an exclusive relationship, by choice and desire, and then happening upon someone else that interests you to the same degree.

Just for the sake of interest, here is a passage from Aleister Crowley's Confessions http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/confess/chapter12.html (see midway down the page {110} ) in which he describes his feelings about this sort of thing.

[Amur]

Hey, this was a thread about Love. The Grand Thing everyone seem to be looking for... :D
(The one and probably one of the only few things which I'm scared to death about)

If people would focus on the lesson involved with making a mistake, instead of judging that mistake or this mistake, things would get very much better very quickly.

Not sure what love in the beginning nor end is. Some think it's a good emotion. Some might find it in security. Someone again might find it in hardcore japanese S/M games. To get some one has to give some, and to give some one needs to know what to give in the firstplace, so if one hasn't received it, how can one know what to give? Perhaps the physical body knows better. But then again if I can confuse the physical body, and become it's 'master', how can I then give or even receive of what I do not know?

Making things a 'bit' more difficult, smashing my head into Schizophrenia makes the whole thing explode up a few paces. When everyone else seem to go 'upwards' towards a God/Goddess, I do seem to find peace in going downwards towards Earth(A big sphere with lovely creatures living on it in alot of various places and dimensions).