Any Teachers Among Us???

[m1thr0s]

...I'd like to hear from any of you that have actually attempted to teach anything (esoteric) publicly. I have reached what is for me a rather awkward turning point and am realizing that in order for Mutational Alchemy to really be understood, I am probably going to have to go out into the real world and start teaching the stuff (ughhh...).

So I am contemplating a series of *lectures* on the Body of Light as a starting point. I honestly don't even have a clue how to get started on such things. I have always been a research person content to work his own practise and discuss things as the need arose. But something else has kicked in of late and I am seeing that important information could be lost if it does not go out. The internet can only serve one part of that and sometimes I fear it is the least effective part at that owing to the limitations of language in a fairly non-tactile environment.

Not always the most effective platform for teaching *movement* on any level...

Anyway...I would be interested to hear from other teachers out there. Bits of wisdom, horror stories, successes, failures, pointers, anything really...

m1thr0s

[MythMath]

Video-record your lectures and make them available as DVDs...

Edit them til they're spot on...

Send them out into the public instead of yourself...
______________

By-product: everything is automatically documented/archived...

Buy product: another item for sale to help further the 'energy exchange'...
__________________________________

Most local public libraries have services set up to record anything...

They have camera-, audio- and production-people ready to go...

They lack one thing: content...

Here, these content providers are refered to as 'producers'...

A 2-hour 'class' on station protocol and you're a producer...

Then you have unlimited access to decent equipment
and experienced technicians at no expense...

[m1thr0s]

That's probably a really good idea MythMath. I have a friend who has experience with that sort of thing who would probably be all over that idea. As long as all I have to deal with is actually presenting the information, this would probably work just fine.

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

When I was in NJ, I ran a weekly class on basic western CM.

Feel free to PM on logistics.

[m1thr0s]

Thanks fr. N...I will PM you regarding logistics. I guess I don't even really know what I am asking for here...just general input regarding the whole business of teaching. I have had many people tell me over the years that I am a natural teacher and really should be doing this more publicly. I think it's just that I am a very solid student really, so I am attuned to the needs of other students.

Recently I had opportunity to view an interview with Sri K. Pattabhi Jois...one of the foremost masters of ashtanga yoga and wildly successful in his own right. In this interview he said something that really hit home with me. I have heard it said before but this time it actually stuck. He said he doesn't call himself a Guru and that it is not the business of Gurus to call themselves such things...that this is the business of other students to determine for themselves. Rather, he calls himself a "student".

ding-ding-ding-flash-flash-flash...what could possibly be more authentic than this? So I guess that's where I am coming from as well and the question is simply how to put my *studentship* into a higher gear essentially...

m1thr0s

[Radiant Star]

In the 90s I gave a short series of presentations to a group on various topics in which I presented some ideas, we ruminated awhile and then discussed it all. It went well and people seemed to enjoy it and I asked for a feedback session with the church leaders at the time and a few of the attendees. I learned a lot from that.

One of the things is that even if you are teaching and leading, not to be too tight and try to fit too much in. Hold the reins lightly and don't clock-watch unless its intended to be a formal academic lesson.

Also, expect that people will not necessarily take from it what you intend or expect.

Another time, I gave a mini retreat and I learned that not all people who appear to be the most interested and knowledgeable about your subject turn out to be that. Some turn up with expectations moulded by a previous experience and one poor lady turned up at mine and got very upset to find that she was expected to think for herself after initial input. This lady started to cry later and another attendee took care of her. From my Bible study group days, I learned not to do things on my own; if you are teaching or leading a group, then another person should be there to host and take up the social side of things leaving you free to be the leader.

[m1thr0s]

now that's something I had not fully considered...mr. solo universe and all of that...I can see the value in that though!
I'm not sure I have such a person at the moment but there is still time...

cool pointers RadiantStar...thanks for the insights...:mwink:

m1thr0s

[Kain]

I find the video-recorded lectures an absolutely awesome idea for what you're considering to undertake m1thr0s. I think it would be a huge success both from the point of view of successfully conveying the subject matter (at the point possible that a public lecture can convey such things) and also be financially helpful for you. Great idea MythMath.

Very interesting ideas presented here in general. Can't say I have much to add personally as I do not have experience on the subject, although my limited and occasional experience with small groups (with a maximum of 20 people or so) has them telling me I am actually quite good at conveying ideas on the subject.

Very glad to see such good input by the members here!

Kain

[Anibis]

I think from the promotion side of things, you'll need to consider an integrated set of services: lectures, videos, products, books, this website. I realize this is a no-brainer. Also, getting ahold of people who will promote your lectures. I'd think you would want to 1) have a package together, 2) contact festival/conference organizers and 3) give them your package/refer them to your site. Also maybe have a page detailing your lecture series. Be sure to have testimonials on the go.

As for teaching I think I'm in the same position as you, though younger... In short, from what I can see product and promotion is what you need most to have going. You are a very interesting and engaging teacher without a doubt. And for fucks sakes publish a book!
(ahem...)
;)
-Ibis-

[m1thr0s]

yeah...I keep dodging the book. Not sure why. Probably opens up a whole other can of worms and right now I've got too many cans open already...

but if I decide to do classwork of any kind I will need this. That part I think really is a no-brainer...

it's just so damn big...reducing it down to a manageable size has been the trouble I think.

m1thr0s

[Luciftias]

Well, certainly having a book would be a good thing if you're going to be doing live lecturing. It gives you a product to sell at the conclusion of the lecture. Having a DVD recording of a staged lecture as mentioned above could also serve as a product if you want to get going right away. People will sometimes buy these things simply to have something for you to autograph. The money from ticket sales to the lecture is only one source of income. Having a product like a book or DVD will not only increase your revenue, but will also serve to assist in the propogation of your information. Record every lecture that you can, if not with video, at least the audio. Not only can you edit the material together to create another product, but people will eat up audio lectures, even if they are virtually identical because they are interested in gaining new insights from different question periods. You can also give away free clips of audio easily online for promotional purposes and video clips have become equally easy to share lately. Just look at YouTube and MySpace for inspiration in this.

This kind of thing is standard for musicians. Revenue from ticket sales typically needs to be shared with the venue, but profit from CD sales and other merch, like t-shirts, goes entirely to the band members (and possibly to the merch table attendant, but this is often the girlfriend/boyfriend of one of the band members, who is doing it essentially for free.) Online promotion is often free these days.


Luciftias

[m1thr0s]

This type of book relies heavily on graphic illustrations and it's real difficult to get any publisher to support that in an unknown author. Publishing has its own problems and I have avoided it not so much on account of the book as the industry. Self-publication is an option but it's mostly pointless unless you have a really good PR network in place. Finding just the right publisher is often the whole key. So I am still looking at that and trying to narrow it all down better. But I don't want to get too hung up on the book thing. This will happen because it has to at this point I think.

I'm having a real hard time imagining myself on YouTube :rofl: :laugh: :rofl:

I guess anything is possible!

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

I think that self publishing is actually not such a bad idea. It works well with the fact that you are appealing to a special audience. Take for example the 'magic trick' industry. MUCH of it runs of independent authors self publishing various books and pamplets which sell at a reasonable price because they contain secrests. It is possible I think, for you to develop a made-per order series of instructional texts that you could also bring to your lectures. I don't think it's that bad an idea. You certainly already have a decent seed of a PR network...
-Ibisis-

[fr.novumorganum]

;)
Another reason that a lecture series is a good idea is that it will force you to shape your material in ways that you will find helpful in planning out a manuscript. Many books begin as a series of lectures

Obviously, the two foundations to consider are auidence and location. We may all have reservations about them, but your local new-age stores will be important for this. The customer base will be the source of your audience and a great way to network with/to them. A local OTO body (if there is one) is also another resource; no matter what one may think of the order's politics, OTO members do go to these type of things (and often sponser them), and at the very least will let membership know about it (especially as you've taken ***).

Next space: i'll assume we dont have resources to rent a hall, which leaves us three options:

a unitarian church
a lodge hall (oto/masons/etc)
a new age shop

when i did my lecture series at a new age shop, I split the door with the store owner, and got store credit for any books my students purchased. After an 8 week class, I pocketed about $400.

Oh, most people that come to these events have their own agendas, so be prepared for that:tconfused: :shitstorm:

[m1thr0s]

that makes two people who have said that now...about people having their own agendas...how very strange...I guess in a sense it doesn't matter too much. At least for the moment I have no intention of starting a religion or anything. It's a methodology I want to discuss/engage moreover...

but that's very interesting and not something I have given any real thought to...

I can't believe I am living in a town that has zero decent magickal bookshops. Even Salt Lake City, Utah had good metaphysical outlets...Olympia, WA is a wasteland...this may prove to be a problem...

There is Evergreen State College however, though I think you are supposed to be a student to use their facilities, or have some student sponsor you etc...I'll have to look into that...

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

You may want to see if there is a pagan student club. they could invite you to speak, but there wouldn't be much of a chance of compensation.

by agenda, what I mean is that a 'student' will sit there through your whole lecture, and then at the end ask you some question that will have nothing to do with your topic but with their meanderings...:tconfused:

[m1thr0s]

hey...just like the forums!!! lol...
I'm sort of used to that sort of thing already I think...

edit: I am sort of comparing this whole thing in my mind to those who teach yoga, since in many ways it is the hidden regions Jnana Yoga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jnana_Yoga) that I have to impart anyway...and what I am realizing is that virtually ALL yogic masters are up against this personal "agenda" business as well...but it doesn't matter so much because they are technicians...they aren't teaching anybody how or what to think really...they are teaching them how to accomplish specific kinds of tasks. So it shouldn't matter what their students private agendas are, right? They can take that technical knowledge in any way they choose to take it and do with it whatever they please.

It's a valuable thing to be aware of in advance...that this is the way it will be. But there isn't actually anything there that should encumber me that I can think of since in my classes we will be talking about about engines...great and powerful engines that work along certain lines and do not work as well along others. I have no idea what that knowledge will finally accomplish and I don't think I even want to know. What is life without a little mystery...

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

Heck, in some way, recognizing that one's students have private agendas is essential, because those agenda's are their Will. That way, you have the choice of acting such that eventually the various agenda do come into harmony. The Monster only became Victor's enemy when he feared and rejected it...
-Ibisis-
In general people would like to work out their own mastery. If ones teachings make this impossible, a schism will occur. If an environemnt is created such that people can cultivate their own works without contradiction with their peers, then that I think is optimal.

[m1thr0s]

right...and teaching is a facilitating skill anyway...at its best anyway...
I am already very aware of being involved in an area I could never possibly explore/exhaust all by myself in whatever paultry few years I have on this earth...the idea of others picking up on the good bits and running amok with them excites and intrigues me...
who knows...maybe next time around I will be learning from one of my own students!

m1thr0s

[Oroc]

Hi!

U should look for infos about the way Osho dealt with his teachings...He never wrote a book but even after his death, his teachings keep coming out. He recorded every lecture he gave, in video if possible and in Audio if not.
The money he raised was used to create an institution after his death, which is a thing u should think about: how can u ensure that after your death things keep going? We have the privilege of knowing you and chating with you but many wont have in the future.
One of the things Osho did a lot was to let people question him in lectures about anything. Usually someone's question is the question of many. Record everything u do and make it accessible to your "disciples". Think 100 years ahead of now and u will find the answers for "how to spread this marvellous teachings".
You can learn with his success and "copy/paste" his methods. Hope u find the way.

Oroc

[m1thr0s]

Thanks Oroc...those are all good insights. I have a friend who is very into this whole idea of recording everything as well so I think that this will happen. I happen to do very well in the more informal question-answer mode as it allows me to draw from anywhere and I just happen to like it better than actually delivering a planned lecture...although this is important to set a direction in things I think...

m1thr0s

[feranaja]

Hi m1thr0s,

Well... a long time ago I taught Tarot, but more recently I have been giving seminars on canine natural health and nutrition, Tellington Touch etc - and I can only say I learn things with every presentation I give. It seems to me that in every seminar there are the worshipful fans on the one had a few naysayers on the other, and a middle ground of people who aren't there either to heckle OR adore me, but simply to learn and share, and I appreciate that bunch the most. I agree entirely that we who teach also have to be students and that calling onself a guru or master is suspect, but on the other hand it's important to assert yourself or you won't inspire confidence. I find myself erring a bit on the side of downplaying my own authority, lest I tread on any fragile egos, but that's a bad idea on a personal level and suicide professionally. There is a clear line between being senistive and humble and being wishy washy. That commentary in one of your posts struck me, resonated with my own struggle to balance authority with sensitivity. It's important to convey confidence and yet not appear like a know it all.

A few things that I've found helpful of late:

1) having one of those easel type things with paper you flip - I use a lot of diagrams as well, and I always have handouts. These could include a page of related links to use online, or a book list, or copies of my own articles. People like that stuff and it reinforces what you want them to learn.

2) Don't go on too long or meander off topic ...I once got so carried away about gluconeogenic pathways in the obligate vs facultative carnivore that I put forty people half to sleep - this is advanced nutrition and not at all what they came to hear! Good crowd, they soldiered on and decide I was "enthusiastic" - yeah,and disorganized and self indulgent. I stay on topic now, if it means using notes. I've learned that what strikes ME as "dumbing down" is simple clarity for others. Too much digression = boooring your audience.

3. Take care of yourself - this may or may not apply to you, but for me, preparation for a seminar starts the day before. I sleep well, abstain from alcohol and make sure I have the things I need to be physically comfortable with me - food, water, coffee, possibly Advil, lol.


Obviously we have very different topics, but as far as the essentials of teaching go I think these things apply across the board. For me, focus, having some materials and making sure I'm feeling ok have been important lessons...if I think of anything else I'll post, but good luck, I know it can be a challenge, but it's always worth it. I love teaching, I have so much fun with the classes, hope you do as well.

fera

[Naomi]

Alright this is how my art teach Kathryn did it, and this is based on a 500 year old tradition tracing its origins in the time of Michelangelo. This is not a typical art course, it has to be taught by a master realist and is unlike almost any sort of instruction you find in a college or university.

Teaching takes place at an atelier, any large open space works - Kathryn's space was donated to her organization, the Contemporary Realist Academy by a business owner who had no use for half of his second floor warehouse above his uniform company. It was approximately 4,000 square feet. Furnishing was very basic, with only the necessities, a large desk to do the paperwork, and three main sections, the cast drawing/master copy area, the live model area and the still life painting area.

Students moved between each section, beginner artists were encouraged to stay in the master copy area until they had a firm grasp of the basics of drawing and measurement. However, if they became bored they were encouraged to move over to the nude model and spend some time practicing basic measurement techniques.

Once the student moved on to the cast drawing, the final phase of the master copy area, it was reccomended they juggle between practicing measurements on the nude model and working on the cast drawing, simply because measuring skills degrade with disuse, particularily when they are newly acquired, and after the first few sessions, the cast drawing engages only some of the new student's skills as it becomes polished over the course of weeks or months.

Classes were three times a week, however, the master artist (Kathryn) was only available on one night, and she would make her rounds to each artist individually. Depending on your level of development, she would spend 10 minutes with you or an hour. For newer students, more time was necessary. Students would often give up some of their time if they knew others were needing attention (there was lots of cooperation - "getting your money's worth" wasn't really the attitude that gained much for you)

At the start of the year, registrants would visit for the final two days of the previous semester and get their supply list and handouts that gave some background on the atelier's tradition and story. Kathryn would give her keynote speech to all new attendees and whoever else wanted to listen to it again. Then fliers would be handed out, including supply lists.

During the year, Kathryn would inform us of demonstrations she would give, which would reoccur periodically. These were not given on a schedule, rather, she tailored them to suit the needs of the class as a whole. If she found someone was lacking in say, color theory, she would take a vote on who needed a refresher or wanted to go indepth there, and the next week she would bring her laptop and we would just pull up a chair and listen. She would also demonstrate the many techniques used in oil painting, sometimes we would sit there all night watching and talking.

The biggest factor in her success was her genuine interest in seeing each student succeed, her warm and funny sense of humor, and her dedication. Her work at the CRA was volunteer work - her day job was as a art instructor at a collegiate school for K-12. A big part of the school's success was volunteer work. (For example, Greg and I designed the website and hosts it still, while other students would take care of show details and artwork transportation, as well as help teach) fundraisers were held 2-3 times yearly.

Here's a transcription of her story, btwei:

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52442

[m1thr0s]

There are similarities with this and the way ashtanga yoga classes are taught in many cases. Ashtanga Yoga is based on a well defined set of chronological yoga postures laid out in several series' and I think there are technically upwards to 6 of these worldwide, of which only the first three are very widely known. Yoga instructors do not always teach every class...they have their own practices and will in most cases offer up a number of "led series" classes while other classes are referred to as "mysore style" or non-led series classes where students meet and go through their own routines at their own pace,

So while the teacher is available for some amount of actual instruction, it's really the students who teach themselves by learning and perfecting the series' on their own initiative. Teachers are very important but not the actual reason people are there and there is less chance of developing any unhealthy dependancy relationships when teachers are acting more as coaches than some sort of spiritual masters per se.

Curiously, Abrahadabra (and Trigrammaton generally) can also be taught this way. There are a number of core meditations that make up different levels of this practise which are more or less fixed in that they have a certain chronological progression to them. Once this has been learned, the actual work involved is more a matter of setting time aside to do the entire sets. In the interrim, people are free to do whatever they like...mix and match however they want and so on...

So my instinct has been that the Ashtanga teaching method would work out very well for the Abrahadabra meditation system, only there needs to be a fairly comprehensive understanding of the system for this to work.

The TwinStar Meditation for instance, is very similar to the *Sun Salutations* practise in Ashtanga Yoga and would be an integrated part of the First Series in (m1thr0s style) Abrahadabra...

m1thr0s

[The Tengu]

I used to teach Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu for several years. For those of you that don't know, it is one of the "ninja schools".

Martial arts has several aspects. There are physical, metaphysical, mental, philosophical, and spiritual aspects as well. There are more, but since most of what people think of marital arts is bullshit I won't go into them.

The difficult part about teaching martial arts as a full curriculum is that you have to cover varied topics, and do so in the space of a couple hours a couple times a week. You also have to do this in a manner in which everyone can understand a little bit.

I taught in a very structured amorphous manner, if that makes sense.

The world is full of people who think they can learn everything from Google, Wikipedia, Occult Forums, video tape, or even Abrahadabra Forums (OMG NO HE DIDN'T!!!).

In reality, the most effective way to learn is by having a real live teacher.

In Japanese martial arts you have what are known as kuden, the secret stuff. Some of it is totally awesome, some of it is just routine knowledge that is necessary to learn the most basic of techniques.

This is the stuff that you will only learn through oral tradition. The person-to-person interaction is where the secrets are revealed. This is where the student learns from the teacher that in the SuperSecretScrolls chapter 2, section 4 was written on Opposite Day. This is where the teacher imparts to the student that if you follow the instructions in chapter 5 of the SuperSecretScrolls you will never-ever-ever-ever understand, because chapter 5 was written to throw off someone who stole the SuperSecretScrolls (or published them through Llewellyn 2,000 years later...).

Books with pictures and text are insufficient for this. Video teaching is helpful here, but it lacks physical depth. Especially in martial arts, where you have to feel the sinew in your joints get to the point just shy of snapping before you truly understand the what/why/where/when/how of it all.

You have to be able to move freely in any direction (dimension) at any given time (past/present/future). You can only experience this face-to-face, person-to-person.

In martial arts, we end up getting all types of students. Many of them you have to change a great deal. That is your duty, if you are a teacher. Like it or not, teaching is really about changing somebody else.

You don't cater to individuals. You do your thing. You teach how things have been taught for centuries... baby steps, baby steps, baby steps. Over and over again, baby steps, baby steps. The losers fade away. The people who think they learned everything from you leave for what they think are greener pastures. Every once and awhile you will have a class where you hit the ground running high-speed-low-drag, but you can't always run around or you will forget what it is like to simply walk.

A teacher who is no longer learning themselves is not a teacher; they're a preacher. If a teacher never says, "I don't know" then they're not worth a shit.

At the same time, a house with a weak foundation will not stand for very long. If a teacher is constantly saying, "I don't know" then they too are not worth a shit.

[m1thr0s]

those are all really great points the tengu...much to think about.

thanks for posting this.

m1thr0s

[deviadah]

I'd like to hear from any of you that have actually attempted to teach anything (esoteric) publicly... Anyway...I would be interested to hear from other teachers out there. Bits of wisdom, horror stories, successes, failures, pointers, anything really...
First I would like to say that whenever I enter a dialogue with somebody at work or on the bus or whatever I teach. Not like some smartass, but I tell a story, or something I've read etc, and often it's weird enough for normal people to become fascinated. And once in a while you catch somebody that actually have things to say back, and teach me... which is even better.

Secondly in my job I teach a lot... but nothing esoteric. But I have a lot of pointers to give but these are dependent on the students you might have. Are they young, old, novices, sages?

I teach, or more so train, younger folks. With this group I know that whatever you are talking about change the structure every fifteen minutes or they loose interest. Then again if you have a Body of Light class there will be people there who is really interested and so attention spans probably won't be a problem.

Unless you have a voice that doesn't change tone and is soft and monotonous.

I know that it seem UGHH to have to go out in public and teach, but the joy and energy you'll get from students who find what you say interesting can't be described. You will see in their face how you felt when you yourself discovered all this. You know those AHA moments.

I am rambling on here... I don't really have a point.

I think your teaching threads here on AF are excellent. If you just vocalized those, with some nice powerpoint images (and these images you already have on your site) it will be a great class. Throw in some practical stuff to and a joke here and there. Bob's yer uncle!

[Anibis]

I teach sleight of hand, and circus skills to kids and adults... Card manipulation sometimes, as well (although that requires a whole level of devotion in itself...)
-Anibis

[Naomi]

Do you know how to pickpocket? ^_^

Just curious!

[deviadah]

Here are some wise words:"If you want to learn something thoroughly, try teaching it." - Rev. Dr. George F. Dole (Swedenborg scholar)

[Anibis]

Pickpocket... I could pick it up if I put effort into it... Don't really... I can deal any poker hand you call for, though...
-Anibis

[Naomi]

lol!!!