Killing souls & spirits.

[Marcus_]

I hate this subject. It's too tireing. I just want to be left alone, left to my self-improvements, without being slowed down by the task of combat.

It happened again, yesterday.
You know the way it goes...
First you meet someone or something harmful, then you try to communicate with it, and then demands, threats, one thing leads to another, and they don't know how to fuck-off or listen, and eventually, someone has to die. You really don't have a choice, at one point or another, because one cannot run away. Travel is instant, in certain dimensions, and anything can be found.

Souls and spirits can be much harder to kill than any organic body. This one, this time, was allot stronger than an average human ghost. Human ghosts were never my problem, but the parasitic and predatory, latter day evolutions of immaterial life -- are the problem. A human will plead for their life, or, will retreat if injured. With a human spirit, there will almost always be alternatives to death and destruction. But other beings have a different kind of mind, and they may get to a level virtually no self-control, which is very dangerous.

I don't like it at all.
I promised myself never to feed the core bad blood, ever again. I did not consume and integrate even one of the other's remaining bodyparts. This one, was very poisonious. Mental, emotional, and physical mico-structures were all throughout its body, and after the conflict, I caught many different spiritual diseases, almost all of which, I destroyed or removed.

This one, was black, and hard to describe... Like a churning union of parasitic evil and resentment, somehow evolving far beyond the potentials of an average human spirit. A few human ghosts had merged with its higher dimensional self, also, but it mostly consisted of the undead parts of many lower forms of spirit life, all added to its existential armory.

It was confusing, also, as I was sleep-deprived, during the instance. I'm still tired. I tend to avoid conflict, normally, and my destructive powers are far less developed than my constructive powers. I can't afford to loose, but the fight wasn't easy, and that bothers me, because it makes me wonder, if one day, I may not be strong enough.

Can any of you relate to this sort of thing..?

[Anibis]

It sometimes helps to employ a system whereby energies such as that get tangled up before even getting near your 'circle'. The spider is good at this.
-Ibisis

[Okazaki Castle]

Combat experiences can be used to increase one's own strength, and thru the application of that strength in combat experiences we come to realise its reality, with the absolute certainty that coes from tried and tested personal experience.

If you tire of fighting and would rather relax now, then focus on that instead. That is to say, you no longer have anything to prove or defend against, but it is now your time to just kick back and chill. Deciding this, let you life follow this focus, and so shall it come to be.

If you do end up in a bad ruckus, you can always call on others aligned with you to help. A useful key-word there which I give you to use for this purpose should you wish to or require it is: Aiki-Mei. To sing the merits of that name: try it out in practice, none can stand against that intelligence/force and he/it is quite detached in his slayings, for they are not an effort. Most, if not all, disembodied recognise this and yield to his intention when he but turns to look in thier direction with a quizical eyebrow raised. Try it out, see what you think, next time ruckus or danger presents. Report back if you like. It does work...

(note: this one is for Marcus. Aiki-Mei form does not like to be disturbed or his services contracted frivolously, as a rule)

all the best,
Okazaki.

[m1thr0s]

One of the things to keep in mind is the "where"...where do these things actually take root and so then what, how and why can then proceed in a more rational sort of way. People are all linked together in ways they would often rather not acknowledge. Many persistent negative sorts of characters reside at the subconscious level...all our nitemare critters are there etc. Understanding where something "lives" and how that stacks up against the whole range of places you have access to can sometimes help you to develop a better strategy for dealing with them.

Occasionally you will encounter things that are best dealt with just by not going there anymore. This may not be a permanent fix in itself but it addresses the matter of how your time and energy should be invested so as to afford you a maximum inertia spanning your entire life etc... I have certain demons sort of on-hold as it were...pending the aquisition of better weapons to combat them. There is work to be done in this world...not all things are an easy or an immediate fix. Some things just need to be slammed back in the box they came out of until you are in a better position to deal with them correctly. If it happens to be too late for that in a given instance...then the race is on and still you are looking to capture the high ground in dealing with them. Knowing the terrain is a vital combat key in all cases.

m1thr0s

[Marcus_]

It sometimes helps to employ a system whereby energies such as that get tangled up before even getting near your 'circle'. The spider is good at this.
-Ibisis
I had no circle, the event was confusing and happened suddenly.

[Marcus_]

One of the things to keep in mind is the "where"...where do these things actually take root and so then what, how and why can then proceed in a more rational sort of way. People are all linked together in ways they would often rather not acknowledge. Many persistent negative sorts of characters reside at the subconscious level...all our nitemare critters are there etc. Understanding where something "lives" and how that stacks up against the whole range of places you have access to can sometimes help you to develop a better strategy for dealing with them.

Occasionally you will encounter things that are best dealt with just by not going there anymore. This may not be a permanent fix in itself but it addresses the matter of how your time and energy should be invested so as to afford you a maximum inertia spanning your entire life etc... I have certain demons sort of on-hold as it were...pending the aquisition of better weapons to combat them. There is work to be done in this world...not all things are an easy or an immediate fix. Some things just need to be slammed back in the box they came out of until you are in a better position to deal with them correctly. If it happens to be too late for that in a given instance...then the race is on and still you are looking to capture the high ground in dealing with them. Knowing the terrain is a vital combat key in all cases.

m1thr0s
I think you are giving good advice for "inner demons".

I'm talking now, though, about real, literal, living structures, which feed upon, and kill -- bodies.

But earlier you said, that you can access or summon almost anything by merely focusing hard enough on it, or something like that? Is this to do with purely mental 'summoning', or do the beings physically come sometimes, and physically do things, in your physical area of space?

[Marcus_]

Combat experiences can be used to increase one's own strength, and thru the application of that strength in combat experiences we come to realise its reality, with the absolute certainty that coes from tried and tested personal experience.
This kind of 'combat', did not increase my strength. We were taring eachother apart, from the inside out. This was two-way possession. We were inside on the most intimate, tender, and dangerous level, where we had to stop certain parts of our mind and body, and environment, from being reprogrammed into a weapon against the whole. Things were infected, crushed, defiled, dismembered...

If you tire of fighting and would rather relax now, then focus on that instead. That is to say, you no longer have anything to prove or defend against, but it is now your time to just kick back and chill. Deciding this, let you life follow this focus, and so shall it come to be.
I hope so.

If you do end up in a bad ruckus, you can always call on others aligned with you to help.
I did. They were next to useless...
When I told Darkenos Atazaeron about this, she said it was a shadow-wraith, meant to literally kill someone. Also, its target was a magick-user/psychic already...

I was confused, at first, because it did what it could to cloud my mind. I also have mercy, I treated it as if it were a person worthy of some sort of rights, or reason. But things rapidly escalated.

It made me feel really bad. I've still got damage, and what bothers me is this: I can't afford to loose. I've worked too hard and too long on what I have and what I am. Even if all the people, whom I usedto think were strong and admirable, would have been unable to handle this, and suddenly it led to my let-down, my loss of faith in everyone, I still will do my best every day to get ready and get stronger.

Have any of you ever been overpowered before? Have you really been inside of a mind as you kill it? OR, can noone relate?


A useful key-word there which I give you to use for this purpose should you wish to or require it is: Aiki-Mei. To sing the merits of that name: try it out in practice, none can stand against that intelligence/force and he/it is quite detached in his slayings, for they are not an effort. Most, if not all, disembodied recognise this and yield to his intention when he but turns to look in thier direction with a quizical eyebrow raised. Try it out, see what you think, next time ruckus or danger presents. Report back if you like. It does work...

(note: this one is for Marcus. Aiki-Mei form does not like to be disturbed or his services contracted frivolously, as a rule)

all the best,
Okazaki.

Who, or what, is "Aiki-Mei"?

[m1thr0s]

I'm not sure why you make this distinction between things Inner and Outer. It isn't real...or at least, it isn't what you think it is. I can invoke things internally that manifest externally and vice/versa because that is the true nature of things. Mind and Matter are inseparable...the lines between them only exist as a matter of convention. Change the "rules" and the phenomenum changes with it.

As Above - So Below, As Within - So Without etc...
It seems to me you have not validated how this actually works yet. This whole Inner Reality vs Outer Reality is messing with your mind. It isn't real...

What you have to understand is that Man stands square in the middle but is able to span the heights and depths in all directions. Once you begin to really get that you'll also begin to comprehend how archetypes really work. Sure, they have what "appears" to be an external existence...because you are not looking "down" on them...but you could be if you wanted to and when you do this you will note that their "external" existence has suddenly become "internal"...it's all a question of perspective...of where you stand in relation. In the final analysis it is YOU that has this ability to assume any position in things...not them...they are relatively fixed abherations, even though they may be bigger than you are...when you stand below them.

Does any of this make any sense to you? I am not inventing any of this...this is all very classical stuff, though I have confirmed it to be true on a personal level. I think you need to do this as well...or not...that is obviously your perogative.

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

I had no circle, the event was confusing and happened suddenly.

I don't mean necessarily a formal 'cast circle' but rather a 'perimeter'. I would contend that one should always be wary of ones perimeter. The I ching is especially fine for this. You will find yourself with an 8-fold directional compass, each one of which acts as a buffer. If something nasty approaches, you will notice it. Anyhow. I think M1thr0s is right, that from a certain perspective it is unreal. Also, you may find it is also possible to, instead of 'polarizing' with an entity like that, such that it enters you and you enter it, you may find that here is where the Triadic approach serves best. You can, if you will, polarize it not with yourself, but with something else. Then you sit back in the middle area and, guide the battle, so to speak. Just a few thoughts as regards combat with nasty entities. I recognize what I'll call the 'Law of Maat', which is that the fate suffered by a being attacking my sphere is directly proportionate to it's intent towards me (the price of this is non-agression on my part, as this rule applies both ways)... Anyways be careful about any remaining 'splinters' of this being's influence. Capture and contain them, remember that a serpent's venom can be used to produce antidote.

-Ibisis

[Marcus_]

I'm not sure why you make this distinction between things Inner and Outer. It isn't real...or at least, it isn't what you think it is. I can invoke things internally that manifest externally and vice/versa because that is the true nature of things. Mind and Matter are inseparable...the lines between them only exist as a matter of convention. Change the "rules" and the phenomenum changes with it.

As Above - So Below, As Within - So Without etc...
It seems to me you have not validated how this actually works yet. This whole Inner Reality vs Outer Reality is messing with your mind. It isn't real...

Does any of this make any sense to you? I am not inventing any of this...this is all very classical stuff, though I have confirmed it to be true on a personal level. I think you need to do this as well...or not...that is obviously your perogative.

m1thr0s
"Inner" and "Outer" are figures of speech. It was a 3dimensional sort of term...

It's not just humans and material which can be polydimensional, or instantly teleport in certain ways.


What you have to understand is that Man stands square in the middle but is able to span the heights and depths in all directions. Once you begin to really get that you'll also begin to comprehend how archetypes really work. Sure, they have what "appears" to be an external existence...because you are not looking "down" on them...but you could be if you wanted to and when you do this you will note that their "external" existence has suddenly become "internal"...it's all a question of perspective...of where you stand in relation. In the final analysis it is YOU that has this ability to assume any position in things...not them...they are relatively fixed abherations, even though they may be bigger than you are...when you stand below them.

Buddy, that almost sounds anthropocentric...

[Marcus_]

I don't mean necessarily a formal 'cast circle' but rather a 'perimeter'. I would contend that one should always be wary of ones perimeter. The I ching is especially fine for this. You will find yourself with an 8-fold directional compass, each one of which acts as a buffer. If something nasty approaches, you will notice it. Anyhow. I think M1thr0s is right, that from a certain perspective it is unreal. Also, you may find it is also possible to, instead of 'polarizing' with an entity like that, such that it enters you and you enter it, you may find that here is where the Triadic approach serves best. You can, if you will, polarize it not with yourself, but with something else. Then you sit back in the middle area and, guide the battle, so to speak. Just a few thoughts as regards combat with nasty entities. I recognize what I'll call the 'Law of Maat', which is that the fate suffered by a being attacking my sphere is directly proportionate to it's intent towards me (the price of this is non-agression on my part, as this rule applies both ways)...
It was not a thoughtform. It doesn't matter what I think, or where my perspective is. It was NOT a thoughtform. It found my physical body. I had to use our connection to kill it ASAP.

At first I was confused because it was shocking, and unclear. My astromorphic vision was not feeling so well at the time, either.

Imagine being physically attacked in the middle of a night, as an analogy. Imagine being beaten, or strangled, by a stange intruder. As soon as you come to your senses and realize what is happening, you must kill or be killed, and it's forceful, and there's no time to think much, it's real, it's happening.







Anyways be careful about any remaining 'splinters' of this being's influence. Capture and contain them, remember that a serpent's venom can be used to produce antidote.

-Ibisis

Yes, I did deconstruct much of the remaining parts in me as best I could to cure the up-and-coming sorts of spiritual disease.

[m1thr0s]

Anthropocentric is a nickle word Marcus, signifying nothing. If by this word you mean to criticize the notion that Human Beings are at the center of their own realities, then you are criticizing a natural fact of life and may as well curse the wind for being windy. But you also have to ask yourself "What is Man?" in total. This part of the equation is where you are sorely lacking. I am trying to explain to you that Human Beings and Universes are mirror images of each other and we have no reason to think that Humans may not evolve into Universes in the end. What we do know is that they are the only animal on the face of this earth capable of comprehending whole Universe and have a natural predisposition towards doing just that. Pretty unusual animal with a great many more personal choices than the next smartest critter in line.

It is only when people refuse to see past their noses that anthropocentrism is a problem.

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

M1 that IS Anthropocentric! Well shucks LOL. I have been attacked by some nasties, too Marcus. There's a thing that's well known in Newfoundland called 'the Hag'. Many people report waking up at night and being paralyzed/strangled by this being. This phenomena (called Sleep paralysis) also often involves Mothmen, Greys, or whatever(in other parts of the world, this here's 'Hag' turf). The last time I saw the Hag I shook off the Paralysis, and cast her out, and no, it was not simple and 'easy'. It is a physical attack, I agree. I'm trying to dissuade you from thinking that we are just being theoretical here. Battle has a tactical and a physical side. We are not just Axis and Allies geeks, here, dude.
-Ibisis-

[m1thr0s]

It was not a thoughtform. It doesn't matter what I think, or where my perspective is. It was NOT a thoughtform. It found my physical body. I had to use our connection to kill it ASAP.Your perception of Mind and Thought are the problem...fix that and the rest will come in line. But I suspect that's not really what you want. You actually enjoy the drama...you're not really looking for any real solutions, are you?

So you know...have fun...I am just a little curious though...just exactly how did you manage to "kill" this non-anthropomorphic "spirit"? You have some sort of "spirit gun" or something? Sounds a little like Ghost-Busters to me...

m1thr0s

[fr.novumorganum]

Anthropocentric is a nickle word Marcus, signifying nothing. If by this word you mean to criticize the notion that Human Beings are at the center of their own realities, then you are criticizing a natural fact of life and may as well curse the wind for being windy. But you also have to ask yourself "What is Man?" in total. This part of the equation is where you are sorely lacking. I am trying to explain to you that Human Beings and Universes are mirror images of each other and we have no reason to think that Humans may not evolve into Universes in the end. What we do know is that they are the only animal on the face of this earth capable of comprehending whole Universe and have a natural predisposition towards doing just that. Pretty unusual animal with a great many more personal choices than the next smartest critter in line.

It is only when people refuse to see past their noses that anthropocentrism is a problem.

m1thr0s

that man is the center of the universe, or at least the magickal universe, is IMHO one of the fundamental principles of magick, if not the principle. And it is from that starting point that I base most if not all of my defenses and attacks.

[Marcus_]

Your perception of Mind and Thought are the problem...fix that and the rest will come in line. But I suspect that's not really what you want. You actually enjoy the drama...you're not really looking for any real solutions, are you?

m1thr0s

Even if all the people, whom I usedto think were strong and admirable, would have been unable to handle this, and suddenly it led to my let-down, my loss of faith in everyone, I still will do my best every day to get ready and get stronger.

Combat experiences can be used to increase one's own strength, and thru the application of that strength in combat experiences we come to realise its reality, with the absolute certainty that coes from tried and tested personal experience.
This kind of 'combat', did not increase my strength. We were taring eachother apart, from the inside out. This was two-way possession. We were inside on the most intimate, tender, and dangerous level, where we had to stop certain parts of our mind and body, and environment, from being reprogrammed into a weapon against the whole. Things were infected, crushed, defiled, dismembered...

:dull:

How'm I supposedto enjoy this?

So you know...have fun...I am just a little curious though...just exactly how did you manage to "kill" this non-anthropomorphic "spirit"? You have some sort of "spirit gun" or something? Sounds a little like Ghost-Busters to me...

http://healing.worldispnetwork.com/gpage.html11.html

http://healing.worldispnetwork.com/gpage.html13.html

http://healing.worldispnetwork.com/gpage.html15.html

http://healing.worldispnetwork.com/gpage.html18.html

http://healing.worldispnetwork.com/gpage.html24.html

This guy is one of the few, who have said a few somewhat accurate things about the principals of psychic defense and combat.

Through a psychic link, tiny processes, especially the electronic processes, can be destroyed, imbalanced or taken apart. Psychic attacks are most effective on very small, micro-scale, destroying the most tiny parts of a system, which are most suseptable to the small-scale amount of energy that most mind-systems can muster, psionicly. I say this about complex, small-scale engineering, because almost noone or nothing can use long range telekenesis to pop a few viens and give an anurism.

At the more advanced levels, the brain/mind-system of the "foe" is reprogrammed to literally kill its body, and this reprogramming is done so that it cannot be unprogrammed by the layperson.

But, during the attack, a psychic link is formed. These links have to exist before remote influancing can happen, and if the person being attacked is experienced and has actual understanding/self-awareness/capacity, they will/must fallow the quantum entanglments of the energy particles back to their source, and then, the victim must kill the thing which is killing him, ASAP.

That is why I said: "two way possession", etc.

-

:no:

I'm actually surprised, that you switched so fast to the sort of attitude that you are giving me right now, m1rth0s. You seem to want to just keep telling me how much you think I don't understand, etc. And to be honest, this sounds to me like some sort of mundane philosophy contest about perspectives and an overy whimsical ontology.

[m1thr0s]

that man is the center of the universe, or at least the magickal universe, is IMHO one of the fundamental principles of magick, if not the principle. And it is from that starting point that I base most if not all of my defenses and attacks.If you really examine the few persistent complaints against Anthropocentrism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocentrism), you will see that they focus exclusively on the short-sited view of Mankind only...Mankind as a finished product already at the penacle of his own potential, justified in bullying the rest of nature into submission etc...

This is not true Anthropocentrism at all but simple Narcissism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism). It does not deal with Mankind for who and what he is but only for its shallowest possible reflection. It doesn't even take up the question of who and what Mankind really is and couldn't care less in the final analysis.

I'm actually surprised, that you switched so fast to the sort of attitude that you are giving me right now, m1rth0s. You seem to want to just keep telling me how much you think I don't understand, etc. And to be honest, this sounds to me like some sort of mundane philosophy contest about perspectives and an overy whimsical ontology.Oh no...quite the opposite. You started out addressing something that sounded almost real and immediately turned it into a ridiculous word game. I have no more interest in discussing this with you at all since it is quite apparently pointless...I know exactly who and what I am dealing with here Marcus. Like I said...have fun...

I went through those links by the way...if that's what you consider useful stuff then it's perfectly clear to me why you and I can't seem to communicate. That guy is an idiot. I doubt he has ever really dealt with a serious demon of any kind.

Human ghosts were never my problem, but the parasitic and predatory, latter day evolutions of immaterial life -- are the problem.Care to explain what that sentence even means? What exactly is a "latter day evolution of immaterial life"? Are you having problems with your toaster oven or what?

m1thr0s

[Okazaki Castle]

This kind of 'combat', did not increase my strength. We were taring eachother apart, from the inside out. This was two-way possession. We were inside on the most intimate, tender, and dangerous level, where we had to stop certain parts of our mind and body, and environment, from being reprogrammed into a weapon against the whole. Things were infected, crushed, defiled, dismembered...


Yes, but you survived. The process makes you stringer if you choose to learn that lesson from it. You could of course choose to learn the lesson of cringing back, or that you're fed up of fightig, or that you have falws in some way. I suggest that choosing to learn the lessons of how to increase one's own strength from combat scenarios is the best way forward.


Have any of you ever been overpowered before? Have you really been inside of a mind as you kill it? OR, can noone relate?


Yes, I was overpowered once before, briefly, a time when in the middle of a psychic combat with a fearsome demon and then I decided to take a break cuz some friends came round. That break before finishing him off resulted in me falling off a second floor balcony as I overbalanced on a stool (despite normally having and excellent sense of balance and the ability to react very instantaneously and intuitively; but it was as if my arms were bound to my sides). I ended up with a slightly fractured jaw and a great big chunk of flesh hanging loose where my arm was pierced by a metal garden thing I fell on. Taught me to always finish off targets before turning your attention away from them. Also that no matter how powerful you've been before, potential enemies, even if weaker than you, can still cause you significant damage if you do not utterly crush and incapacitate them first. Plus I learnt how to fight psychic combats with my eyes open whilst attending to daily life, ie simultaneously, for when need arose.

Also, yes, I have often been inside of a mind as I kill it, and likewise souls and spirits. I have the rather dark character trait of actually enjoying watching my opponents/enemies die hideously painful and torturous deaths. They opposed me when they should not have. Pour encourager les autres, and for other reasons, I like to watch them sink slowly into the well of the abyss, knowing within themselves they shall never find reprieve and will ultimately cease to exist, and that as they sink, their suffering is only just beginning. I stand there, watching, and remind them of their previous opposition: not in words, just in the look I hold. Sometimes I tread on thier fingers as they try to claw their way out, scrabbling for a purchase. To put it all rather metaphorically... Then again, I choose my enemies carefully, and in justice.


Who, or what, is "Aiki-Mei"?

Good question. Nobody fully knows. He is the intelligence which kills and which understands the nature of strategy on this planet and in this creation, and who therefore and also embodies and expresses the nature and essence of freedom hereon. In practice Freedom coming down to two characteristics: power and detachment. He is a form I often use myself. In many ways, he is the only form I have access to here on this Earth which come close to conatining my fuller nature. Thius is because, as far as I can gather, Aiki-Mei form is the whole of primal dark Khaos, all of it even the parts of it not within this creation, gathered together and then simply you place a ninja mask over it and shut up about it. Seems to be his style: he never talks, or only rarely, and just looks ta you intensely. The power of his gaze cannot be denied, and he doesn't lose ever because he is antecedent to everything that exists within this creation. He's not supposed to be here, but he is.

In practice many people use Aiki-Mei form: basically anyone who deals in realistic strategy, and lives it. For example, head of the CIA, some of Mossad, KGB/FSB heavy use thereof, and so on. Most of them don't know that its Aiki-Mei form they're dealing with. All of them will prbbly ocnfirm though that if you do personally use Aiki-Mei form - or access that intelligence for one's own personal use, even without formally knowing his name and details - then it plays with your head. Weird motion, strange ways of thinking and being. Very likely to make most people insane. He doesn't like the weak using his insights and modus see? So he either kills them or drives them insane, or breaks thier mind and being in some other way. He is rather nasty, yet also gentle and caring, kind and compassionate yet utterly ruthless and into much that would be considered dark. Simply delegating to him, or asking for his assistance, does work though and is quite safe.

all the best,
Okazaki.

[Marcus_]

Yes, but you survived. The process makes you stringer if you choose to learn that lesson from it. You could of course choose to learn the lesson of cringing back, or that you're fed up of fightig, or that you have falws in some way. I suggest that choosing to learn the lessons of how to increase one's own strength from combat scenarios is the best way forward.



Yes, I was overpowered once before, briefly, a time when in the middle of a psychic combat with a fearsome demon and then I decided to take a break cuz some friends came round. That break before finishing him off resulted in me falling off a second floor balcony as I overbalanced on a stool (despite normally having and excellent sense of balance and the ability to react very instantaneously and intuitively; but it was as if my arms were bound to my sides). I ended up with a slightly fractured jaw and a great big chunk of flesh hanging loose where my arm was pierced by a metal garden thing I fell on. Taught me to always finish off targets before turning your attention away from them. Also that no matter how powerful you've been before, potential enemies, even if weaker than you, can still cause you significant damage if you do not utterly crush and incapacitate them first. Plus I learnt how to fight psychic combats with my eyes open whilst attending to daily life, ie simultaneously, for when need arose.

Also, yes, I have often been inside of a mind as I kill it, and likewise souls and spirits. I have the rather dark character trait of actually enjoying watching my opponents/enemies die hideously painful and torturous deaths. They opposed me when they should not have. Pour encourager les autres, and for other reasons, I like to watch them sink slowly into the well of the abyss, knowing within themselves they shall never find reprieve and will ultimately cease to exist, and that as they sink, their suffering is only just beginning. I stand there, watching, and remind them of their previous opposition: not in words, just in the look I hold. Sometimes I tread on thier fingers as they try to claw their way out, scrabbling for a purchase. To put it all rather metaphorically... Then again, I choose my enemies carefully, and in justice.

I can relate to what you say about "actually enjoying", because during the psionic connection, with one, I remember its mentality clearly. One had no compassion or sympathy at all, and it only felt excitement at another's pain, because the other's pain was what stimulated its instinct. Ex: sexual stimulation and excitement happens during certain kinds of events and information, but, within certain species whom have a strong killer-instinct, the same sort of ecstatic rush can happen during another's death or agony.

But this material body does not have those kinds of instincts. Instinct is genetic. I simply cannot enjoy.

It's not like I'm feeling sorry for myself and all of that, but you know how often during shootings the killer turns the gun on themself afterwards? Simial instincts in most races and individuals were just not meant to kill things or people like that, and the sensation afterwards is very hard to handle. A person must manually reprogram their own mind as much as possible, to stop certain instinctive upsets, because sometimes it becomes a matter of "them or you".

Castle, do you also deanimate the escaping energies of the dieing, to prevent "reincarnations"? It reminded me of that, when you said about "sinking into the abyss", etc.

You are correct about finishing them as quickly as possible, also.

If you ever did have to kill a human body, it would usually be one that was badly possessed, and to infested to do much about anymore. Right? The worse foes are rarely ever human, right?

What you said, sounded accurate to me, so I'm just interested in a few more details. Thanks for your time, anyways, this kind of subject isn't easy...

Good question. Nobody fully knows. He is the intelligence which kills and which understands the nature of strategy on this planet and in this creation, and who therefore and also embodies and expresses the nature and essence of freedom hereon. In practice Freedom coming down to two characteristics: power and detachment. He is a form I often use myself. In many ways, he is the only form I have access to here on this Earth which come close to conatining my fuller nature. This is because, as far as I can gather, Aiki-Mei form is the whole of primal dark Khaos, all of it even the parts of it not within this creation, gathered together and then simply you place a ninja mask over it and shut up about it. Seems to be his style: he never talks, or only rarely, and just looks ta you intensely. The power of his gaze cannot be denied, and he doesn't lose ever because he is antecedent to everything that exists within this creation. He's not supposed to be here, but he is.
That sounds like a sort of elemental. A will and set of mannerisms, somehow interweaving into the fabrics of a certain kind of physics, energy, dimension, etc.

If they are not invincible, I would guess that these sorts of "beings" could only be killed or reduced through depatternization. And before one could figure out how to destroy such a thing, one may need to know how to create it, also.

In practice many people use Aiki-Mei form: basically anyone who deals in realistic strategy, and lives it. For example, head of the CIA, some of Mossad, KGB/FSB heavy use thereof, and so on. Most of them don't know that its Aiki-Mei form they're dealing with. All of them will prbbly ocnfirm though that if you do personally use Aiki-Mei form - or access that intelligence for one's own personal use, even without formally knowing his name and details - then it plays with your head. Weird motion, strange ways of thinking and being. Very likely to make most people insane. He doesn't like the weak using his insights and modus see? So he either kills them or drives them insane, or breaks thier mind and being in some other way. He is rather nasty, yet also gentle and caring, kind and compassionate yet utterly ruthless and into much that would be considered dark. Simply delegating to him, or asking for his assistance, does work though and is quite safe.

all the best,
Okazaki.
Hmmm.

[Marcus_]

If you really examine the few persistent complaints against Anthropocentrism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocentrism), you will see that they focus exclusively on the short-sited view of Mankind only...Mankind as a finished product already at the penacle of his own potential, justified in bullying the rest of nature into submission etc...

This is not true Anthropocentrism at all but simple Narcissism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism). It does not deal with Mankind for who and what he is but only for its shallowest possible reflection. It doesn't even take up the question of who and what Mankind really is and couldn't care less in the final analysis.

Oh no...quite the opposite. You started out addressing something that sounded almost real and immediately turned it into a ridiculous word game. I have no more interest in discussing this with you at all since it is quite apparently pointless...I know exactly who and what I am dealing with here Marcus. Like I said...have fun...

I went through those links by the way...if that's what you consider useful stuff then it's perfectly clear to me why you and I can't seem to communicate. That guy is an idiot. I doubt he has ever really dealt with a serious demon of any kind.
I still respect you, but I just think that we had a disagreement, or misunderstanding.


Care to explain what that sentence even means? What exactly is a "latter day evolution of immaterial life"? Are you having problems with your toaster oven or what?

m1thr0s

I was talking about the immaterial lifeforms which were more evolved than most human souls.

[Anibis]

If you ever did have to kill a human body, it would usually be one that was badly possessed, and to infested to do much about anymore. Right? The worse foes are rarely ever human, right?

Somehow this is reasoning I don't trust. In the grip of some paranoid madness anyone can appear to be 'infested'. How do you murder somebody: well first you cut off your empathy for them. How to do that? Well start by rationalizing away their humanity. All this talk about 'disincarnate entities' as such sounds dangerously like a sci-fi plot, wrought in the real world.

-Ibisis

"Q: How do you know you know who is a Heretic? A: Whomever God allows my sword to Kill is a Heretic." The Crusader's justification.

[m1thr0s]

I still respect you, but I just think that we had a disagreement, or misunderstanding.with that and a dollar I can get a cheap cup of cofffee. I'll trade you the "respect" for a little less verbal gamesmanship.

I was talking about the immaterial lifeforms which were more evolved than most human souls.the term "immaterial lifeform" is an oxymoron. "life" implies structure, "form" implies matter. even thought is a form of energy so your term means exactly nothing thus far. some structures are purely eidetic, purely "logical" etc but these cannot be sinister and you have alluded to some kind of sinister nature here. we cannot logically discuss something that does not logically exist and no one can trade personal experience around a term you have simply invented.

m1thr0s

[Okazaki Castle]

It's not like I'm feeling sorry for myself and all of that, but you know how often during shootings the killer turns the gun on themself afterwards? Simial instincts in most races and individuals were just not meant to kill things or people like that, and the sensation afterwards is very hard to handle. A person must manually reprogram their own mind as much as possible, to stop certain instinctive upsets, because sometimes it becomes a matter of "them or you".

Castle, do you also deanimate the escaping energies of the dieing, to prevent "reincarnations"? It reminded me of that, when you said about "sinking into the abyss", etc.


Yes I do. My target often is not merely to kill an entity but to cause them and all they connect to to cease to exist in every way that counts. I call it Uncreation, or dissolution. Sometimes counterweight, though that involves an existence, of sorts.

I am not, properly speaking, of this creation, nor of this human timeline. My responses to humans are learned responses: I watched them very carefully since a young age and found they react in certain ways to certain stimuluses. Hence, I thereby developed the ability to relate to them, understand them and appear in behaviour to them as one of them. However, my apporaches, ethical stances and motivations to action are wholly unhuman in all ways, really. For example, regarding killing: one does not hesitate to kill a cockroach or a mosquito does one? Yet these are claimed as less sentient than humans, or less ethically aware, and hence the argument is made that it is somehow 'alright' to kill them. Then how does that expand to include cows, pigs, horses, and so on? It doesn't really, and in actual fact it is humans who are the most unethcial in theier actual practical behaviours, and characters, and value structures out of all the sentient and non-sentient life on planet Earth, and indeed in the multiverse. None pause to even think that if you are in a system where you get what you desire and believe in as a group then you necessarily are desiring and bringing about the destruction of all life everywhere saving on your home planet thru that set of belief structures, given the context of the system in which that mass mind belief is held. Earth, before it was used for its current purposes, was in fact a form of celestial 'dumping ground', or prison planet. Hence perhaps the still prevailing mentalities of humanity on this rock.

That's how I view it then and so:

If you ever did have to kill a human body, it would usually be one that was badly possessed, and to infested to do much about anymore. Right? The worse foes are rarely ever human, right?


I have always been the best at killing, and my focus has always been to become better at it. The only other focus I've ever seriously held is sex, and then thru Venus's path I gradually learnt how to pursue the other pleasures of life, hence why I like her so much and lover her dearly... and also have a soft spot for her because I feel I owe her inestimably. It is in practice a harsh, ultimately unsatisfying life just killing all the time...

That having been said then: yes, the worst, or the most skilled, foes are rarely, if ever, human. Humans are weak, stupid and contemptible in the combative scale of things, as an overwhelming rule, with most animals have far more intelligence than them and combative ability too, in practice. Just as their bodies are fleshy and soft, so too are their minds and souls. They are easy to destroy utterly and present not even the beginning of a challenge.

Physical bodies I don't care what species they are or what inhabiting entity is involved. My principle there is: if you get in my way and I need you out of it, and other options fail or I don't have the itme for the delay, you're removed. Simple as that, I don't discriminate. Nor do I seek to justify it in some moral way, or say it's ok due to higher reasons or anything like that. I am living with purpose, that purpose will be attained, I canot be stopped and any attempt to do so just speeds up the destruction and earns heavy penalties, and hence I simply let things run their course. And ultimately, it is system decomission I'm working on, which is in everybody's interests, so nobody has cause to complain really when I do the necessary which nobody else was willing to fulfill or take the responsibility for...


If they are not invincible, I would guess that these sorts of "beings" could only be killed or reduced through depatternization. And before one could figure out how to destroy such a thing, one may need to know how to create it, also.



Normally depatternization, or following the route a entity took into being created then rewriting it from base null point does work for everything, even the tricky combats. Not a chance of that with Aiki-Mei form though. That is why I took to him: when I wanted to get somehwere, he stood in my way, so I challenged him and he could not fall, not unless I revealed the deeper depths of my being, which is how I cheat and don't like to do. But he is wiser than me in many ways and sees what I cannot and is also harder, I admit that too. Hence, how can he not be respected? was my position... He is more than an elemental, although he is quite elemental in his approach. He has character though, and a worthy one at that, and that is how one can relate to him on regular terms, with friendship and respect. Even though he is really dark and stuff...

On a connected note, he is a part of what I know as The God of Many Faces: a whole load of characters all rotating, which you can add yours too, and become them also. It's sort of how I do a lot of my stuff since discovering it, for example, Sebastian is one character, Oazaki another, Takamatsu yet another, and so on...

As parting advice on the combats: people - or other entities - will not leave you alone if you show weakness. You dismiss them as unworthy of your attention. And crush them utterly if they object. That is an attitude. It is only a real attitude if backed up with the force to see it thru in practice. Then again, that force is a mental thing. For example, in my work, I ha, in some way at least, of which some of them at l;east are aware, taken on the whole US military and said: 'Come on then!'. My mind force was greater than theirs, but physically they could crush me under ordinary terms. Yet when your mindforce is stronger, that must prevail according to the laws of Creation, for causal is superior to physical. Hence a tension is created and principle of system takes hold. Thus can the ability to be invincible to all threats be developed. The more powerful beings are developed, and os balanced, and will not harass you just to prove a point or cuz they're being violent or anything. So in practice it is only to a certain level you need to arrive before you can 'lay down the sword' as it were...

all the best,
Okazaki.

[Okazaki Castle]

I suppose I better add that I don't go out of my way seeking combats or targets and indeed my aim has always been to minimize the destruction necessary in this system to the extent that if any other path than my own were to be taken or is taken it in fact results in more deaths and more suffering than my path. That is sort of how I can get away wth my stuff from a regular perspective given that I am in human form: I say: 'Look, your system is ansty and imbalanced producing much suffering and many innocent deaths. I may take out high-placed personnel on the principles of assassination but all such targets, though rich and highly placed, are recogisably scum from all human perspectives. Further, if their actions were allowed to continue it is easy to see how they'd created very nasty scenarios. Hence, you should thank me and reward me, not criticise me or seek to arrest me.' And also of course, if the reason they're enquiring into my behaviours and actions is because they believe I actually caused those deaths, then they would be foolish to pursue that line of enquiry given that they credit my ability to remove both them and their families and all the people they connect to. Plus, I'd do it too, if they interfered or irritated me, and they feel that and so behave, as I view it.

But, to repeat: it is an ethical approach. Funnily enough...

I would also add, to contribute to the general discussion here, that not all entities which exist in the Multiverses have a physical correlate on Earth. Also, many of these entites can cause physical damage, or physical benefit, and have done so in the past, and continue to do so. The entities who choose to enter this density of experience are as a ruile either the very stupid or those who've got some specific job to do down here (the latter category being most of us I like to think). The reason I listen to Marcus seriously here, when I might not do so elswwhere, is because just to get to this forum you have to go thru the ABRAHADABRA shield mechanisms. That's ain't easy now, and does ensure that those who do arrive, and talk about it, do so with a certain purpose I feel... Though of course one develops out of a constrained state by listening to the positions of others, cross-referencing that to your own experience and taking as examples and 'wise men' those whose character and works you respect...

all the best all,
Okazaki.

[Marcus_]

I am not, properly speaking, of this creation, nor of this human timeline. My responses to humans are learned responses: I watched them very carefully since a young age and found they react in certain ways to certain stimuluses. Hence, I thereby developed the ability to relate to them, understand them and appear in behaviour to them as one of them. However, my apporaches, ethical stances and motivations to action are wholly unhuman in all ways, really. For example, regarding killing: one does not hesitate to kill a cockroach or a mosquito does one? Yet these are claimed as less sentient than humans, or less ethically aware, and hence the argument is made that it is somehow 'alright' to kill them. Then how does that expand to include cows, pigs, horses, and so on? It doesn't really, and in actual fact it is humans who are the most unethcial in theier actual practical behaviours, and characters, and value structures out of all the sentient and non-sentient life on planet Earth, and indeed in the multiverse. None pause to even think that if you are in a system where you get what you desire and believe in as a group then you necessarily are desiring and bringing about the destruction of all life everywhere saving on your home planet thru that set of belief structures, given the context of the system in which that mass mind belief is held. Earth, before it was used for its current purposes, was in fact a form of celestial 'dumping ground', or prison planet. Hence perhaps the still prevailing mentalities of humanity on this rock.

That's how I view it then and so:
Hmmm...

Where is the highest concentration of prisoners?

In the water?
On the land?
On the moon or in the center of the Earth?
Or in the electrosphere above the crust?

I can't explain why I asked that question right now, but, if you've got an opinion/memory about that, please tell.


Quote:
If you ever did have to kill a human body, it would usually be one that was badly possessed, and to infested to do much about anymore. Right? The worse foes are rarely ever human, right?
I have always been the best at killing, and my focus has always been to become better at it. The only other focus I've ever seriously held is sex, and then thru Venus's path I gradually learnt how to pursue the other pleasures of life, hence why I like her so much and lover her dearly... and also have a soft spot for her because I feel I owe her inestimably. It is in practice a harsh, ultimately unsatisfying life just killing all the time...


"Killing", fallowed by proper digestion, is a form of purification. Your immune-system does this all the time. Becoming better at killing usually, naturally leads, atleast partially, to a more medical sort of power; as one can eventually kill any parasite, virus, bacteria or cancer.

Even though there can be an unhealthy side to anything, there can also be a healthy version of anything. A mere action, not viewed in context with a situation, should not be seen as good or bad antil the situation is known. This is why I work towards not don't judge actions until I know all the reasons for the actions. When people say: "You're wrong.", for example, it is most often that they do not fully understand why and how someone else has come to some sort of belief.

That having been said then: yes, the worst, or the most skilled, foes are rarely, if ever, human. Humans are weak, stupid and contemptible in the combative scale of things, as an overwhelming rule, with most animals have far more intelligence than them and combative ability too, in practice. Just as their bodies are fleshy and soft, so too are their minds and souls. They are easy to destroy utterly and present not even the beginning of a challenge.

Physical bodies I don't care what species they are or what inhabiting entity is involved. My principle there is: if you get in my way and I need you out of it, and other options fail or I don't have the itme for the delay, you're removed. Simple as that, I don't discriminate. Nor do I seek to justify it in some moral way, or say it's ok due to higher reasons or anything like that. I am living with purpose, that purpose will be attained, I canot be stopped and any attempt to do so just speeds up the destruction and earns heavy penalties, and hence I simply let things run their course. And ultimately, it is system decomission I'm working on, which is in everybody's interests, so nobody has cause to complain really when I do the necessary which nobody else was willing to fulfill or take the responsibility for...
What kind of system decomission?



Quote:
If they are not invincible, I would guess that these sorts of "beings" could only be killed or reduced through depatternization. And before one could figure out how to destroy such a thing, one may need to know how to create it, also.

Normally depatternization, or following the route a entity took into being created then rewriting it from base null point does work for everything, even the tricky combats. Not a chance of that with Aiki-Mei form though. That is why I took to him: when I wanted to get somehwere, he stood in my way, so I challenged him and he could not fall, not unless I revealed the deeper depths of my being, which is how I cheat and don't like to do. But he is wiser than me in many ways and sees what I cannot and is also harder, I admit that too. Hence, how can he not be respected? was my position... He is more than an elemental, although he is quite elemental in his approach. He has character though, and a worthy one at that, and that is how one can relate to him on regular terms, with friendship and respect. Even though he is really dark and stuff...


Like attracts like, sometimes.

On a connected note, he is a part of what I know as The God of Many Faces: a whole load of characters all rotating, which you can add yours too, and become them also. It's sort of how I do a lot of my stuff since discovering it, for example, Sebastian is one character, Oazaki another, Takamatsu yet another, and so on...

As parting advice on the combats: people - or other entities - will not leave you alone if you show weakness. You dismiss them as unworthy of your attention. And crush them utterly if they object. That is an attitude. It is only a real attitude if backed up with the force to see it thru in practice. Then again, that force is a mental thing. For example, in my work, I had, in some way at least, of which some of them at least are aware, taken on the whole US military and said: 'Come on then!'. My mind force was greater than theirs, but physically they could crush me under ordinary terms. Yet when your mindforce is stronger, that must prevail according to the laws of Creation, for causal is superior to physical.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

Would this be relative to super-scale, psionic influancing?

[Marcus_]

If you ever did have to kill a human body, it would usually be one that was badly possessed, and to infested to do much about anymore. Right? The worse foes are rarely ever human, right?
Somehow this is reasoning I don't trust. In the grip of some paranoid madness anyone can appear to be 'infested'. How do you murder somebody: well first you cut off your empathy for them. How to do that? Well start by rationalizing away their humanity. All this talk about 'disincarnate entities' as such sounds dangerously like a sci-fi plot, wrought in the real world.

-Ibisis

"Q: How do you know you know who is a Heretic? A: Whomever God allows my sword to Kill is a Heretic." The Crusader's justification.

I've rarely ever met human bodies which were hopelessly contaminated and mind-controlled to the point in which their bodies could be used as weapons unconsciously in a fatal way.

The human bodies that I have met, which were hopelessly contaminated, were usually just really spiritually-diseased people, and their issues were contagious so I left the 3dimensional area and was fine after I decontaminated.

Crazy people can't use psionics. People under "paranoid madness" cannot successfully use energy-manipulation anyways, because that requires higher brain-function and deep lucidity/illumination.

None of the hopelessly contaminated people I've met could do remote-killing, either. And for this reason, one can simply stay away from such "people" without having to think about it much ever-again.

But, rare and unlucky as it may be, I've had a few encounters with the more dangerious things that can't be escaped from once engaged. Just recently was another one of those times, which I always wish to avoid, but hey: "shit happens". It was trying to kill someone else, and I was there, so I'd faced it. The situation was similar to a car accident: sometimes it happens, noone wants it to happen.

[m1thr0s]

Crazy people can't use psionics. People under "paranoid madness" cannot successfully use energy-manipulation anyways, because that requires higher brain-function and deep lucidity/illumination.I suspect that Charles Manson would disagree as well as Rasputin, John the Baptist...all kinds of "crazies" actually...many of whom were also quite paranoid etc...though for good reason in many cases...

It's very difficult for anybody who actually knows anything about anything to sort out what exactly you imagine is going on Marcus...but hey...it's entertaining in its way.

m1thr0s

[Marcus_]

I suspect that Charles Manson would disagree as well as Rasputin, John the Baptist...all kinds of "crazies" actually...many of whom were also quite paranoid etc...though for good reason in many cases...

It's very difficult for anybody who actually knows anything about anything to sort out what exactly you imagine is going on Marcus...but hey...it's entertaining in its way.

m1thr0s
Okay, why are you nit-pickin' like that?

The majority of psychics are highly intelligent and lucid.

You started listing off the exceptions, which I also know about, but did not mention.

[m1thr0s]

Okay, why are you nit-pickin' like that?:laugh: Oh nuthin'...just that virtually every grandiose assertion you make has exactly no relation to reality that I can find...

Then again, perhaps we really aren't discussing reality here at all...

m1thr0s

[Anibis]

Weapons are neutral. The mad can use them, the sane can use them. The use of them often FOSTERS paranoid madness, unless you can stay really well ballanced and open. Beyond simple 'exceptions to the rule', I'd judge that this statement:

Crazy people can't use psionics. People under "paranoid madness" cannot successfully use energy-manipulation anyways, because that requires higher brain-function and deep lucidity/illumination

Is simply false. Even ONE counter example is sufficient to show that. But these aren't exceptions to the rule, man. Lot's of nutbars are into magick and can use it. In the end, they tend to destroy themselves, but they can and often do do damage in the process. To define magick and energy manipulation as co-terminous with sanity itself is to make what I would consider a pretty dangerous error. It's a sad fact, but there are lots of Illuminutties around...

-Ibisis

[Phoenix]

perhaps this will help your understanding of "exchange" soul and rebirth

http://www.kabbalaonline.org/Holydays/passover/7th_of_Pesach_Soul_Renewal.asp

:p

[Marcus_]

Weapons are neutral. The mad can use them, the sane can use them. The use of them often FOSTERS paranoid madness, unless you can stay really well ballanced and open. Beyond simple 'exceptions to the rule', I'd judge that this statement:


Quote:
Crazy people can't use psionics. People under "paranoid madness" cannot successfully use energy-manipulation anyways, because that requires higher brain-function and deep lucidity/illumination
Is simply false. Even ONE counter example is sufficient to show that. But these aren't exceptions to the rule, man. Lot's of nutbars are into magick and can use it. In the end, they tend to destroy themselves, but they can and often do do damage in the process. To define magick and energy manipulation as co-terminous with sanity itself is to make what I would consider a pretty dangerous error. It's a sad fact, but there are lots of Illuminutties around...

-Ibisis
Imagine a bunch of handicapped dudes in a ward taking medication.
Imagine a group of people at a university, the especially bright, and healthy ones.

Which will have more psionic power and psionic potential?

I wasn't talking about 'magick' in general, I was talking about advanced brain function, psychic function = psionics, right?

To be more accurate I could have said: "Mentally ill people can't use psychic abilities very well compared to people who have high IQ and lucidity.", but the other way I said it, was 'imperfect' and faster to say.

I don't think that certain deranged magick-users are using 'psionics'. I think they are most likely contacting spirits and godforms. Getting a spirit to do something for you is different than doing it yourself. If these people get possessed and seem 'powerful' but stupid at the same time, it's probably just their body being used by something else, and not actually their own ability or power.

If the chemical balance inside of a brain is really imbalanced, it's hard for it to do any higher function. They'd do best with Theta, Epsilon and Delta brainwave algorithms and high IQ, compared to low IQ and general-craziness. Relaxed, centered, focused, lucid and calm, that's when psionics works best.

Hopefully I've clarified somewhat.

[Anibis]

Imagine (I know it's a stretch) a bunch of high functioning sociopaths occupying a major political institution, and developing such a paranoid frenzy about some invisible 'threat', some terror, that they go about seeing it everywhere, and persecute it where it is actually not. This is, afterall, what I basically meant when I said that it's easy to call someone else 'infected' or possesed or whatever justify your persecution of them. I'm just critical of easy answers, man. I'm not sure whether or not someone whom one would care to dehumanize has psionic abilities is even slightly relevant. The problem as I see it has to do with giving yourself easy liscence to kill people. Maybe I am simply misreading your position, so don't assume I am making an accusation, but its my role here (and in general) to give criticism where I see it due. Actually its a sign of respect. In any account your portrayal of madness as being akin to handicapped people on meds is very very far from the whole truth, I would say, and I wonder how you could justify that as anything other than an ill constructed rhetorical device. At the same time, being a non-psionicist, perhaps I am simply on a page too far from your own to really see why this matters.
-Ibisis
The lucidly mad are a cunning bunch. It's no lie that genius and madness are closely aligned. This is a classic theme. Think Faust, Iago, Strangelove...

[m1thr0s]

I wasn't talking about 'magick' in general, I was talking about advanced brain function, psychic function = psionics, right?In that case this thread belongs in some other forum than Magick. Part of the confusion in this topic is undoubtedly due to how it has been positioned. Most magicians (that I know) would not think that "magick" was only about contacting/using "spirits and godforms" etc and would probably find that notion just a little bizarre...

As the term Psionics is a New Age term, I will move it there...

m1thr0s

[Marcus_]

Imagine (I know it's a stretch) a bunch of high functioning sociopaths occupying a major political institution, and developing such a paranoid frenzy about some invisible 'threat', some terror, that they go about seeing it everywhere, and persecute it where it is actually not. This is, afterall, what I basically meant when I said that it's easy to call someone else 'infected' or possesed or whatever justify your persecution of them. I'm just critical of easy answers, man. I'm not sure whether or not someone whom one would care to dehumanize has psionic abilities is even slightly relevant. The problem as I see it has to do with giving yourself easy liscence to kill people. Maybe I am simply misreading your position, so don't assume I am making an accusation, but its my role here (and in general) to give criticism where I see it due. Actually its a sign of respect. In any account your portrayal of madness as being akin to handicapped people on meds is very very far from the whole truth, I would say, and I wonder how you could justify that as anything other than an ill constructed rhetorical device. At the same time, being a non-psionicist, perhaps I am simply on a page too far from your own to really see why this matters.
-Ibisis
The lucidly mad are a cunning bunch. It's no lie that genius and madness are closely aligned. This is a classic theme. Think Faust, Iago, Strangelove...
I think excentric and extreme behavior was not what I was talking about when I said: "Crazy", but I was just typing as the words came to me in my mind. Words are polysemious and I can't afford to try to say everything perfectly inside because that's a bit perfectionist/too-slow.

Anyways, to help us fully clarify, I think excentric and extreme behavior simply shows and is a sign of extreme amounts of information &/or energy.

To me, the word "mentally ill" applies only to people whom have some sort of subjective &/or objective handicap/damage. "Unusual" behavior, IMO, is a sign of healthy and natural consciousness, whilst overly "normal" behavior is most-likely supressed and conformist.

Here is an example of a polysemious word in action:
Someone says: "Black holes and neutron stars are crazy."
But that time, it actually meant: "I don't understand the complexities of this."

Sometimes I don't even wanna post anymore, because English never feels right for me anyways.

Thanks for your patience.

[The Watcher]

I apologize to Correct those of you who believe mental illness is a handicap tword the working's of "Magick" or in General a handicap or Illness to begin with:

1. What you refer to as mental illness is a misconception of evolution on the coporial form's part tword the metaphysical, The more of your brain you begine to use the more of "Reality" your going to see. Skitzoophrinia being one Sociopathism being another and many more, Hearing voice's, Seeing thing's, Let's not forget that not a few who have these symptom's actualy end up being injured in some manner by what they see. (Therefore pointing that what they see is indeed "Real" and not Delusional All though they may be the only one to see it).

It's not actualy IQ (How fast you learn) But Intelligence (How you process the information) That matter's, While yes haveing a High IQ allow's you to learn More Faster this also has a draw back as the mind tends to Overload more and need's to "Take a break before continueing" Whereas the person with the lower IQ CAN'T absorb as much information as fast and therfore while Learning slower has a better chance of organizing the information better and more acuratley and less a chance of Overload. (As long as they have a high inteligence) Low intelligence and low IQ= Very slow learner. Though this has some benifit's as usualy the one with the high IQ and Intelligence tend's to have so much information that they "Skip" Certain key point's while Gaining the Wisdom to use such knowledge.

But than again Time is realtive for me. So How "fast" or how "slow" does'nt really matter as it is just a Physical concept. It's the What and the How that count's and the experiance or lesson's learned that comes along with it.

Now, when this becomes a problem is when the mind is overloaded with impulse's and signals do to an overwhelming amount of information being gathered and attemted to process at any given point in time (Much like the buffer on a computer). If one is unable to handle this than they will "Snap" or start to show symptom's of what most call insanity (Or lag and slow down reverting to sort of childlike behavior and simplicity). This has only 2 result's. One Slow painful death, Or Two Clarity.

The ability to Do magick requires great strength of Will and an ability to grasp and contain the result's of the evolution without "Snaping" Or The ability to Snap (oppening up avenue's in the unconciouse much the same way meditation does only all at once haveing random result's) And then Regain controle or effectively shut your mind down and reboot it after the information has been processed (Much like running a computer in Safe mode until the Information has been properly assimilated or Defrag)

2. The metiphysical is 90% Sociopathic as Emotive's are a Physical side effect of the chimicales and electromagnetic field generation of the Coporiel shell in contact with the other energies in the Physical and reacting to them.

(Purly environmental and personal based on Chemical's and imbalances in the brain)...Physical. As a metaphyscial Body retains a Conciouness but no brain as the Brain is Physical and the Conciousness...Well...Hmm. No word for it.

Emotion has a great effect on Magick if used properly, However Since Human's only use 15-20% of there Brain, Very few have the disciplen and ability to completely seperate them from there working's hence the result is usualy off in one way or another.

While magick done by a sociopath is usualy Far more Acurate and Powerful than someone who is not.

Also sociopath's retain the Unique ability to mimic or channle emotion's while not truly feeling them (Though at the time they may experiance the side effect's of the emotion they are channleing or mimiking, again this depend's on the individuales disciplen), This mean's that their understanding of them and controle over them is Far supperior to a non sociopath (Since to study somthing completely you must not only be able to experiance it but to look at it from a cold scientific viewpoint with out that which is being studied). And hence there ability to use them in Magick Greatly increased. They Can turn them on and off at will (If they learn how) and therefore use only the one's they want during the preperation and casting of said magick. Whereas a non sociopath has very little controle over what comes out and when as the environment and personal factor's are usualy the cause of stated emotions rather than Sheer will to feel them.

All Sociopath's are "not" Capable of this.

NOTE: "Most" sociopath's do not "Usualy" sucumbe to "paranoid" delusion's.

Fear is also a denominator in Metaphyscial power, Hence why when veiwing the metaphysical, Fear is usualy felt. The trick is to transmute the fear into power or channle it somehow where you are uneffected by It's effect's. The more powerful the being the greater the elation or "fear" will be felt.

[Dragon]

Such a wonderful book. It actually teaches you how to spell. Will wonders never cease.

I tend to take peeple a litle more seriusly from a skolastic perspektive wen they take the time to study the basiks. Like the englush langwij.


Although I got the gist of your rant, I strongly urge you to temper your communiiction skills just a bit more.


Short of that, referring to the rest of the thread. As far as magickal battles with supernatural beings go; there is a basic rule of thumb concerning apparent "occult" phenomena, 95 % of what is experienced in the mind that is perceived as having supernatural origins is actually generated from the mudane. The 5% is small for a reason...I'll let you connect the dots on that one. If life is magick from a philisophical standpoint then yes, all things that occur are magickal. But still, the ability to discern source is key....because when it comes to the abyss, there is no cheering section, and no matter how impressed or unimpressed other people are has little to no bearing on the success of your crossing...

(Scene from an Italian restaurant) Uhhh Mr Demon of the Abyss sir? I have like, lots of people that believe I'm powerful on earth...uh...here's my references...and...uh...I myself think I'm powerful and have had lots of experiences...er...in my brain...ok so..

Can I pass?.

(Fade to asskicking)

No joke my friends, the inner levels of the mind have no mercy, they are Darwinistic in their assessment of your abilities...when you kid yourself and get your magickal butt handed to you by the governing forces of the universe, posturing and fanciful notions will get you zip. Even if you think that they are real...chew on that carefully please.

If however, you do have you act together, then get on it, and don't worry so much about whether or not people believe you, because in the end....it's only your butt on the line.

And the world will love you for your success, but will not mourn your passing.

Savvy?

(Crew breaks for lunch.):rofl:

Dragon

[The Watcher]

I see,

While my English may be rusty you seam to forgette the Basic lesson of learning:

It is not Gramer in a sentace of somatic language that maters but rather the Content or meaning of what is said and the will aplied to the force of such for the effect. (while this is not true for Some languages it is for english and those that have a proper grasp on it's structure)

Now if you Human, are only a 2 bit magick user than yes I would expect this, Most young stundent's Get excited and find that their Cup over floweth. This error is easily enough corected (For some) As soon as they meet something they cant handle.

Now, As to the rest of your post, You basicaly just said the exact same thing I did in different word's:

1. The metaphysical is sociopathic, Or Cold scientific logic and assesment.
2. Your illusion of reality is just that an Illusion created to fill the gap's or explain that which you do not yet Comprehend. And your mind only being able to properly identify 3-10% of it doesnt help.

So really the only purpose of the post was to jibe at my inability to spell Corectly.

A simple I agree, But try useing a spell checker would have said the same thing. But whatever.......


Anyway,

If you dont mind I have some question's:

1. From reading your post that You believe there to be Earth and the ...Abyss only?

2. Or do you believe there to be more?

3. Also What Metaphysical Being's are you refering to? The only one's you mention Are Demon's, Though I am unsure wether your refering to the Angle/Demon Species or to some other species which has similarities and has been misinterpreted as such.



And each being react's diferently to everything. And I'm afraid to tell you but, In the metaphyscial you WONT get your but handed to you, Most thing's will ignore you if you are weeker than them unless they are studying your specie's. Some may try to teach you.

While yes there are thing's that will and do attack on sight most of these specie's are fairly unevolved or have a specific reason for doing so. Nothing is done in the Metaphysical without proper Thought and analisis of the problem.

If you were indeed to aproach a Demon and ask it to Pass (Pass what? you failed to mention) It would most likely test you in some manner. You would either fail or pass But eternal suffering or Cease of existance I wouldnt worry about as 98% of the metaphyscial do not know or have the ability to kill each other or Make the Soul or Essance Cease to exist.......At least in a complete manner. Very few species have this Knowledge or ability.

If you failed you would merly turn back and seek the Corect result. (Though why this would be necesary is beyond me, Gardian's are usualy only for student's to make them think and Understand or search for the knowledge themselve's, While the power granted is only the self realizing that it has more than which it thought and Thereby the experiance learns the wisdom of how to use it.

They are completely uneccesary in relative term's. Unless you are trying to Get at a protected secrete which has been offered as a boon for a task.

Clever deception isnt it?

The knowledge is there for you to take and learn all you have to do is look.

Although if you remembered this (And understood wht it actualy mean's) it might help some:

1. The Universe is infinite.
2. Your pupose is to learn.
3. You are in controle. Not God, Not some other entity (wether you were created by it or not) "YOU".
4. Read my quotes.


NOTE: I apologize if I seam to be lashing out I am in a hurry and do not have time to properly organize a humble post as I would like. Do not take anything said personaly but rather take it from a sociopathic learning perspective which it is ment as, Since I, in nature am Chaotic and Sociopathic.

But remember, What I say doesn't really matter. Only what you believe.

[Dragon]

So really the only purpose of the post was to jibe at my inability to spell Corectly.A


Not so..but so. The dig on the lack of grammatical correctness was leveled at you...in an open field expect some ribbing over it :P...although the advise to study harder the language you write was serious...It can only benefit you. Just some friendly guidance.

The rest of the post had little to do with you, except by default in as you were part of the conversation. It was more a general response to the original direction and initial responses of the thread.

Your summation of Metaphysical practices is interesting, and although I don't fully agree with the perspective, I understand it's basis in you position.

If we need to start a new thread about my perspective on cosmological structure to answer your questions, I suppose we could...or just follow my posts across time to divine them...as I would with you...Natch.


regards,

Dragon

[Anibis]

Interesting where this has evolved. I would just have to contend that while sociopathic thinking does lead to a detached pragmatic approach that is quite effective, I have strong criticisms about where it ends up taking us. Empathy may not always feel nice, but it keeps us together, knits the social fabric. Being a psycho or sociopath sounds wonderful cuz you get to be never wrong and all that, but I think it's crap. I just don't buy it. Things only get particularly interesting when you open up to others. I think that where the discussion with Marcus brings out the point (to me at least) that madness is not necessarily a disfunctional stage as regards operating in the world The Watcher's posts, really empasize how you can be smart, lucid, and yet totally cold and unempathetic (a mataphysical sociopath), thereby believe it or not undermining your own foundation in the world of beings other than yourself... It comed down to the old skeptic's argument: how can you posit that which exists beyond the mind by appealing to faculties that exist only in the mind? Metaphysical structures are a conjurers trick, my friends, a semantic example of smoke and mirrors. Don't get me wrong, I dig the smoke and mirrors, but I know it's a trick. Sociopathy is NOT alright. It's nasty. Sadistic treatment of beings is NOT alright, it's malevolent crapola. I'm sure someone is going to haul out their relativism and whap me with it, but whatever... The biggest monster of all, is in your own mind (and,a s a matter of fact, lurking below it). If you think otherwise, then I'm afraid, my Zelators, you will run for ever in circles chasing you own implanted fears with everything you got. Enjoy the holodeck, but come on out for the real adventure when you are sick of playing omnicient!
-Ibisis
I'm sick of this thread. It's boring me.

[Ci Celli Ddu]

Whether in combat by magick or by psionics, victory falls to the one who is empowered most by his opponent. Without this empowerment there is no combat in the first place, it always takes two to tango. An entity can be exorcised with something as simple as a song, it all depends on the Will and belief in the Will. Whether it is a song, a circle, or a kata, these things are statements of intent. By stating your intent you are engaging the Will. Once the intent is made thus manifest, you get on with whatever it was you wished to do.

[Logos]

I prefer textual realities: they tend to consist of more mutable textualities: :coffee:

-Logos

[Ci Celli Ddu]

I prefer textual realities: they tend to consist of more mutable textualities: :coffee:

-Logos

You'll have to explain that one, Logos. That went so far over my head it didn't even register on the radar...:laugh:

[Anibis]

victory falls to the one who is empowered most by his opponent.

This is one of the most well distilled pieces of insight I have come across, CCD. Thanks.
-Ibisis

[Logos]

You'll have to explain that one, Logos. That went so far over my head it didn't even register on the radar...:laugh:
It was a comment on all of this, well, let's just say ridiculous for the sake of brevity and a pinch of arrogance, ridiculous discussion of reality: this thread is a textual (i.e., text-based) reality, mutable by virtue of whatever post appears next (this post? your response to this post?). And I prefer such realities because it's so damn easy to contradict yourself, to mutate the textuality underlying the reality of the thread and thereby mutate the reality constructed via the thread, and get away with it. [Note: the reality of the thread constructs a reality via the thread. God, I love prepositions!!]

The better part of any reality is textual: reality is discursive, wordy, meaningful, grammatical, symbolic, analogical, metaphorical, contextual, meta-contextual, simultaneously denoted and connoted. And this thread, along with every other thread on this and every other forum, is exactly that: it's textual.

So whatever reality it is that's being critiqued by Dragon (a grammatical reality?), m1thr0s (a metaphysical reality?), and I can't remember who else, that the starter of this thread tried to convey, the reality created by this increasing clusterfuck of posts is, for lack of a better word, far more preferable to me than, say, any reality in which astral entities, such as the Watcher at the Gate (who "causes" sleep paralysis at the onset of astral projection), are "REAL"--such a scary, scary word when taken seriously...

...really.

-Logos

[Ci Celli Ddu]

The better part of any reality is textual: reality is discursive, wordy, meaningful, grammatical, symbolic, analogical, metaphorical, contextual, meta-contextual, simultaneously denoted and connoted. And this thread, along with every other thread on this and every other forum, is exactly that: it's textual.

So whatever reality it is that's being critiqued by Dragon (a grammatical reality?), m1thr0s (a metaphysical reality?), and I can't remember who else, that the starter of this thread tried to convey, the reality created by this increasing clusterfuck of posts is, for lack of a better word, far more preferable to me than, say, any reality in which astral entities, such as the Watcher at the Gate (who "causes" sleep paralysis at the onset of astral projection), are "REAL"--such a scary, scary word when taken seriously...


Ah. Now I get it (or at least I think I do). Cheers. :D

[Logos]

The coffee icon (:coffee:) was in reference to the textual reality of news: how many people ritualistically drink coffee while reading the newspaper every morning? How many of those many consider such texts "real"?

I am constantly reminded of m1thr0s' assertion throughout this thread: "It isn't real!"

-Logos

[Oblio]

hehe textual intercourse...


I prefer such realities because it's so damn easy to contradict yourself, to mutate the textuality underlying the reality of the thread and thereby mutate the reality constructed via the thread, and get away with it.

It is easier in text based communication to contradict yourself and get away with it.. it usually requires a lot of explanation to do it in verbal communication (and that very discussion reinforces the idea of some objective reality, although deconstructing that whole topic can be a whole lot of fun as well).

For sake of discussion: to what extent do you think you can mutate the reality of a thread?

I'll take the position that for most people, interpreting the reality of a thread is somewhat linear, based on our general logic of sentence construction/argument, and perhaps most importantly, memory. As such, a thread is usually based around a defined topic, and the OP usually presents their position. The shared reality of the thread then grows and mutates as more people add to it based on different observations or arguments.. Moreover, I'll say that people come to a generally similar idea of what's going on in a thread, because there are shared conventions for interpreting written statements etc.

So, one of the most important parts of understanding a thread is my memory of who said what. My memory of what's going on in the thread would include that you contradicted yourself. So, you didn't really change the reality of the thread (in the sense that the prior statement is forgotten in lieu of the contradictory one). In fact, being able to agree that contradiction has occurred suggests that there is (at least to some extent) a shared, stable reality within which this contradiction arose (even though, it's clear that that reality is mutable to some extent).

If you get away with it, it's probably because people couldn't be bothered calling you on it, or because the new point is interesting enough to bury the previous statement.. or the thread's simply moved on.

>>I posted an interesting passage from Hofstadter's GEB in the universal truth (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?p=13871#post13871) thread if anyone's interested :D

[Naomi]

:::ninja poof:::

Did you see this?

THE MACHINE IS US/ING US

[fr.novumorganum]

That was actually a pretty useful clip...smartly made too.

[Kain]

I agree, great clip, thanks Naomi.

Kain

[Logos]

For sake of discussion: to what extent do you think you can mutate the reality of a thread?
Well, I seemed to have mutated the reality of this thread by commenting on textual realities and textualities. Not necessarily an example of contradiction, but you don't really need to contradict yourself to mutate the reality of a thread (or text, for that matter).

-Logos

[Logos]

That was actually a pretty useful clip...smartly made too.
Yeah, I'd say that about sums up what I'm trying to get at.

-Logos

[Radiant Star]

Clip was great, wonder if I would have enjoyed it so much without the music...

[Kath]

Have any of you ever been overpowered before? Have you really been inside of a mind as you kill it? OR, can noone relate?

I can relate. I tend to assume you were not altogether overpowered since you're not in the hospital or worse, n'est pas?

may I suggest Diplomacy as an alternative to fighting?
not just being easy going, but a really willfull concerted effort towards diplomacy... This would include a lack of disdain, a lack of fear, a lack of seeming in any way as though your buttons are easy to push, a lack of weakness, but in such a way so as to avoid being provocative. Dealing with the entity from a possition of calm and friendly strength, to an extreme degree.

Also, just a totally off the wall idea, try a 'hug'. This may sound sickeningly 'white light'-ish, but I'm quite serious on a very nitty gritty level. The effect is somewhat dissorienting to some sorts of spiritae.

Basicly be as sweet as a little girl who just got a pony... but in a calm strength. Your obvious lack of concern over their outward intimidation and powerplaying will prove very disconcerting to them. Not flinching, is itself very intimidating. This can't be faked though, it has to be a genuine course of action. Its a blend, a genuine sweetness and calm friendly acceptance of the being's nature, mingled with an intimidating calm and strength.

Also, if this does not work, it at least leaves you in a very good possition to mentally dominate the being. Call it mesmerism, call it seduction, call it forcefull entrainment, whatever. Weilding power without open conflict. Which i would call the second stage of diplomacy.

If that doesn't work, you're back to the 3rd stage of dipomacy, fighting. Honestly though, I've a tremendously high level of interaction with less than savory entities, and I haven't had to resort to the 3rd stage of diplomacy in years.

PS- personally, if I were you, and I was actually fighting, i'd completely dissipate and dismantle every tiny bit of the being's energy pattern, leaving only raw energy which no longer bears any resemblence to the being's energy signature. You'd be surprised how much like flatworms some entities are in their recouperative abillity.

Kath

[Naomi]

Kath that does sometimes work for girls....I wouldn't really advise it for anyone else, however. Aiki-mei is better for hugs anyways.....fierce meat-searing hugs....:)

My first phase of diplomacy is death and dismemberment! How could I not reach for it first, it's so fun - and with a willing partner just wandering into my midst!

Good question. Nobody fully knows. He is the intelligence which kills and which understands the nature of strategy on this planet and in this creation, and who therefore and also embodies and expresses the nature and essence of freedom hereon. In practice Freedom coming down to two characteristics: power and detachment. He is a form I often use myself. In many ways, he is the only form I have access to here on this Earth which come close to conatining my fuller nature. Thius is because, as far as I can gather, Aiki-Mei form is the whole of primal dark Khaos, all of it even the parts of it not within this creation, gathered together and then simply you place a ninja mask over it and shut up about it. Seems to be his style: he never talks, or only rarely, and just looks ta you intensely. The power of his gaze cannot be denied, and he doesn't lose ever because he is antecedent to everything that exists within this creation. He's not supposed to be here, but he is.

In practice many people use Aiki-Mei form: basically anyone who deals in realistic strategy, and lives it. For example, head of the CIA, some of Mossad, KGB/FSB heavy use thereof, and so on. Most of them don't know that its Aiki-Mei form they're dealing with. All of them will prbbly ocnfirm though that if you do personally use Aiki-Mei form - or access that intelligence for one's own personal use, even without formally knowing his name and details - then it plays with your head. Weird motion, strange ways of thinking and being. Very likely to make most people insane. He doesn't like the weak using his insights and modus see? So he either kills them or drives them insane, or breaks thier mind and being in some other way. He is rather nasty, yet also gentle and caring, kind and compassionate yet utterly ruthless and into much that would be considered dark. Simply delegating to him, or asking for his assistance, does work though and is quite safe.
He's pretty much just gothic Krsna from hell. I can certainly attest to the power (and validity) of Aiki-Mei, as I have been on the recieving end of his ire (yeah I still won't talk about that one.)

Narasimha or Nrsrimadeva, Mithras, lions etc...but also Ptah if you reverse that on his consort. Pretty sure those are some other aspects now. However....I had sort of imagined it couldn't get any bigger, badder and meaner than Aiki-Mei but I was proven wrong yet again for the millionth time. :laugh:

Narasimha, for instance, is the odd guy out in the Vishnu pantheon. He's that little hint that Vishnu and Krishna ain't so nice and sweet as they're painted in this fucktard creation.

But yeah, nice (or not so nice) godform, It's probably a good thing I got to know him when I was five years old and not later on where the lesson would be harsher.

[Naomi]

Here's some visuals to give you an idea of the extremes we love so dearly about Nrsrimadeva and Aiki-Mei, - note the multi-headed shakti rising behind him.

http://www.thetengu.com/abrahadabra/nrsrimadeva.jpg

http://www.thetengu.com/abrahadabra/nrsrimadeva2.jpg
Awww pussy cat!

[m1thr0s]

Ok...what is the traditional spelling of Nrsrimadeva Naomi? When I try to google it...all I get is links to your posts...

m1thr0s

[Kuroyagi]

I think Narasimha works better:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narasimha
(is it that one?)

[Naomi]

Narasimhadeva works good I think....

^_^

[The Tengu]

If they deserve it, they deserve it.

People need to stop feeling guilty over bullshit.