Physical health and Practical Magic

[feranaja]

I'd just like to open a discussion about this,as it seems to me that individuals who are deeply involved in the occult often neglect the physical, even vilifying it much as Christian and other dualists have done throughout history. I find a weird thing in Paganism is the pursuit and celebration of earthly pleasure - all good! coinciding with a marked negativity toward the material body. By this I mean Pagans who smoke, eat poorly, don't exercise etc, it seems a large number fall into this category (including myself at one time). I have found that my ability to practise magic (as opposed to just reading about it) is greatly enhanced by keeping fit, eating well, de-stressing daily etc, when I let myself go even a bit I can't focus as well, I tire easily and so on.

This sounds quite self evident i know, but haven't you all seen what I mean here? There IS a trend in both Witches and CMs to a sort of disregard for the body - as if somehow they are above such trivial and shallow ideals - but I think it should be a foundational practise for trainees to do the opposite. I wonder how individuals can proclaim all this "power" but be unable to master the basics of their own health? Of course I am not implying that all illness is curable by magic - although I know some people believe that I'm not such an extremist; there are autonomous forces we cannot combat with diet, exercise etc alone. (for a harrowing account of such a case, read Ken Wilber's story about his wife's battle with breast cancer, Grace and Grit). However, I do feel that mastery of the physical is a good indication of the state or capactity of the individuals overall attainment. If you cant quit smoking, for example - how can you handle a powerful evocation or direct energy successfully in a ritual working?
In my own case, I have managed to quit smoking (20 years ago) I've lost some excess weight that bugged me for years and I have been able to vastly improve health through diet, supplements, exercise. however, were I faced with a challenge to give up coffee, I might have to concede defeat here, Mostly through unwillingness, but it's still an obstacle for me. Even cutting down makes me feel dizzy...

I'm not asking for people to agree with me here, just open the discussion. Naomi and I were discussing the importance of finding what works for one dietarily and following that; I would go a step further and say that managing health through exercise, stress reduction as well as diet is foundational to developing good magickal skills.

What's your take on it? How's your health and diet? HOw does it affect your magickal life?
fera

[Naomi]

My diet is horrible, and my health is so-so. I tend to really not give my body an easy time, as I'm too distracted usually...busy thinking, doing and creating to think about diet and exercise. Generally I look healthy but during times of stress I break down and get a cold.

It is a foundation to magical skills. I was always in good physical health when I made magical breakthroughs. I'd like to start running again, for my heart health but this household is busy as hell and it's hard to find time to even PAINT or create, let alone go jogging for a half hour.

A good start would be my diet though, that might give me some extra energy to play around with.

I don't have a problem quitting anything, as I'm not addicted to anything except thinking at the moment, but finding a menu I don't have to think about too much and is also healthy for me is a challenge.

This morning I ate a steak, egg and cheese Mcbagel, a bottle of poweraid and a cup of coffee with three tbs of international delight creamer in it! I mean DAMN. That is 'unhealthy'. Though I burn it off like gasoline I do think I could benefit from a quick and easy breakfast that isn't your typical all American breakfast on the go. (For perspective, I have to be out the door by 7:00 AM and usually hit the sack around midnight)

Am I stressed? I don't know! I should be!

This is not the ideal Hermetic lifestyle I am living, I know...I've experienced it and this isn't it.


I could certainly change it with some willpower, maybe all I need is to talk about it to get some inspiration. :P

What the hell can you eat for breakfast that's quick and healthy?

[Okazaki Castle]

Yeah, keeping me too busy to stay strongly healthy is how life managed to get in my way also. Grrr...


What the hell can you eat for breakfast that's quick and healthy?

Well, surely you know the answer to that. Maybe not too quick though. Prioritize. :D

Okazaki.

[feranaja]

hi Naomi,

Yep you sure do look great, lol, but you're young and naturally beautiful - I speak as an old hand here when i say it can all catch up on you quickly(I was 33 when my wayward youth took revenge and its been all management strategies ever since). What you do now will be an investment for later.

I have a Zone bar and 2 lattes every morning, the bars aren't "health food" but they're a nice balance of protein/fat/carb and they keep my blood sugar stable (and they're not as horrible as some power bars are). Preventing glucose swings turns out to be a lot more important vis a vis the aging process than we knew, so blood sugar management is important for me. What might work for you will depend on your own unique physiology;I suggest making sure you get a good protein source with a minimum of those nasty fats, and a bit of carb as well - I have yogurt with whey protien (sounds gross but its tasteless and increases both the protein score and elevates something called glutathione which is depleted in most of us 21st century uprights and very important for detoxifying the liver) and I add 2 Tbsps flax, some pumpkin or sunflower seeds , and assorted antioxidant- rich fruits like pomegranate seeds, blueberries and grapes (well washed or organic). Takes like 5 minute to stir up and if you can tolerate honey (I can't) add a tsp as well, but not too much since straight glucose can wreak havoc with the blood sugar - over time.

Oatmeal with almonds and yogurt? A low fat muffin with some cheese? Miso soup? There's a lot of ideas, that don't work for me personally (hence the Zone bar) but could be good for you if you handle carbs better than I do. I only eat what keeps me alive at breakfast and pack the nutrition into my other meals - salads, yogurt thingie, salmon, beans...

You sound like you are indeed burning the proverbial candle at both ends. I'd look at a few dietary adjustments and some carefully chosen supplements to help your body cope - you're aksing a lot of it, and you need to invest in your future when you won't necessarily be able or want to be on the go so much.
There - do i sound like your mom now?

fera (drinking a beer, Griffon Rousse, lol)

[silentjohn]

http://free-subliminal.nlpweekly.com/Increase-Motivation-Exercise/play.html

http://www.jms101.btinternet.co.uk/basic_sets/misc/devil/smiley.gif

Tai chi + yoga + qi qong + weights + cardio = go


Busy days - expand your routines .. take the stairs instead of elevator, park far away on purpose, etc.

[Okazaki Castle]

Mmm. Healthy eating and lifetsyle is actually more pleasurable in many ways. Certainly as far as far as food is concerned the healthy options are always better cooked, tastier, organic and so on.

As regards the physical body's abilities. Well, these can be summarised as:

1. strength and endurance/fitness
2. intelligence, clarity of thought and awareness
3. Supernormal abilities such as being able to take blows or cuts without damage

These can all be worked on, but that's sort of where the problem lies. Even if you're doing nothing else but perfecting physical form, it cannot be perfected on the basis of the practices, tenets, guidelines and parameters to which physical incarnation is subject here on this planet (or perhaps more accurately was subject... ;) ). It's something I don't really mention much anymore, but back when I was around the ages 19-23 I was seriously considering joining the Special Air Service, the British special forces, known as the fittest, most hardcore military unit in the world really. Why? Because they were competent (I hate being surrounded by incompetent, weak people perhaps more than anything else) and I could kill people. In the end I decided against it, primarily because I came to the realisation that I wouldn't be able to decide for myself who I wanted to kill and who not. Also I have a problem with taking orders from those I view as beneath me. But, for around 3-4 years I was following their full training regimen: weights, circuits, 10 mile runs, sprints, diet considerations, martial arts. Even towards the end of that time period the results were far less than mythical. Sure I was fit, strong and in supposedly good health, by all western standards. But compared to such notables as the Shaolin patriarch Bodhidharma I was well, well below standard.

So then I applied myself to eastern practices: a lot of Chi Kung, meditation, changing and rerouting the body's energetics, and so on. Better progress with those techniques, but eventually I was lead to the inescapable conclusion that at this point in human history the body and energetics cannot handle or produce the same rates of progress, or results, as was possible in antiquity. Sure, pretty much all martial arts masters and so on say the same thing, but I wanted to test it for myself.

That's about the time I got pissed off with life, and this planet. I like to be perfect. I don't mind working for that perfection, if that is what is required. But to have perfection excluded as a possibility by the nature of the physical laws within a system, that is wholly and completely unacceptable to me. For it is inappropriate to my essential nature is how I view it.

Thereafter, I decided to find another way. That other way was the miraculous. In essence, taking the Laws of Creation themselves and restructuring them, retargetting them, de-engineering/re-engineering them and so on to produce the results that I wanted.

Physical form cannot be made perfect by physical means, or by ordinary energetic means: no matter how hard you work at it, no matter how efficiently you do so, no matter how fast you move in the processes. Add on top of that the ageing processes and sickness, disease, decay and it is quite simply an unattainable grail.

Thus, if it cannot be managed by ordinary means, then those ordinary means serve no real purpose other than as being pleasurable in themselves. Having duly applied myself in those fields, I can remain blameless in demanding another option from life, spirit and the creation. And then, because I'm like that, share those methodologies with my friends and those I like or choose to target with them.

Hence, I found a way to produce youthing and then eternal youth through automatic means. Not so unusal a field of undertaking when you consider that ageing is simply the effect of Time (the motion of gravity, light and 'sound') on genetic structures. Likewise for things/abilities like intelligence, co-ordination, physical strength, endurance and so on.

The techniques of autmoatic blessing/development do work very well I have found: better than all the exercise, chi kung and so on that I used to do before. Still they are both slow and inefficient for my tastes. This is because Time is a retard and the Laws of Creation are weak here still in thier expression, because what you might call God was a pussy before He was fired/executed and replaced with an outside commission (Tomagahane, an anterior element to Hydrogen). That's the esoteric side of things though...

The physical side of things which results from all that is that I now do whatever I like. What about side effects from things like drugs or excessive ejaculation? What about them, the processes of perfection are cumulative and accelerate as Time continues, so I don't really worry there, and that is justified as such side effects don't seem to be any real big consideration for me where my physical form is concerned anymore. Such side effects only really exist because this is a co-created reality down here, and some irritating humans still insist on viewing me as one of them, subject to thier forms of existence and mind grids. The common ideas which are held about substances and thier effects on the human body. Hence, amongst other reasons, why I sought to re-engineer subconscious mind, or Mass Mind. Change the Mind, change the effects of Mind.

Essentially then, do what you enjoy and choose your pleasures on the basis of quality, beauty and style. On that basis, whereas Venus doesn't like processed cigarettes much, she adores a good spliff! How do I know? Well, whenever I get bored in this world I fetch other entities /souls thru to do my living for me, and just assume a 'back seat' as it were. One of the places I often got bored back when I was less discerning/demanding about who I f*cked was in the bedroom: some women are just cold and boring down there, with no higher orgasmic abilities to speak of, and no real interesting material to their souls. In such instances, they didn't deserve to have things taken deeper, nor would there much point in things like soulmerges. So I'd fetch Venus thru into my form to fuck them for me. A bit like a threesome, neatly provded me with a way to crack the homosexual illuminati, and also fitted nicely with my personal principle that I only allow women into my bedroom. Then, in due time, she wanted to smoke spliffs too. So I let her, because she did it well, and it was fun to watch, and learn cool techniques from, eg how to absorb smoke into specific portions of the lungs.

Now, Venus is dark aswell as fun and light, and we all know that if she decided to do something and say it has no side effects, then so it will be - for anybody standing in her way there she'll just utterly destroy until their mindforce yields. That's one reason why she's such a good friend to have: she allows, and encourages, the following of what might be called 'bad habits' by the more judgmental moralities provided that she enjoys them also and gets more attention from those she wants more attention from thru their processes.

Hence, smoking ganga is good for you, tobacco we'll get to later... (I've also changed ganga's properties incidentally such that it makes your sex drive stronger and more persistent, and increases orgasmic ability, and makes its smokers or cake eaters want to fuck all the time, This is fitting into place more and more as Time continues, as with the rest of what I call 'The Design' - basically a whole lot of commands and Institutions founded at specific moments when according to their own natal charts they had to have very specific effects)

So, have lots of sex for exercise and pleasure, eat good food for social enjoyment and pleasure and smoke lots of ganga for social relaxation and to help you digest or take a break from sex for some reason, if you want to. :yes: :rofl: :cool:

Regards all,
Okazaki Castle, plus Temple Grounds, Himeji Castle and the Abraxas coffeeshop in Amsterdam.

[Naomi]

Ok thanks Feranaja, that pumpkin seed concoction sounds disgusting but probably my best bet. I'm allergic to anything dairy, including derivatives like whey, so shakes work but also make my liver freak out for some odd reason.

My best diet is low in simple carbs except for honey and brown rice syrup, and high in weeds, seeds and nuts and meat except for pork.

So I used to live a 'perfect' Hermetic lifestyle, with balanced meals, no reading or distractions during eating, yoga, meditation, cold showers...the whole nine yards. Now I eat while I'm driving and it's really crazy around here.

In fact, I have to go, just now. :P

Interesting post, Okazaki, sorry I couldn't reply with more...

[Zaii]

This kind of thing really is the majority of my "magick".

Your body is the place from which you interact with the rest of the world, so when you accomplish what you want there, you realize most things are only as difficult as you make them to be.

[Okazaki Castle]

so when you accomplish what you want there, you realize most things are only as difficult as you make them to be.

Pretty much true Zaii, and I'm always amazed at how people seem to like to make their life difficult for themselves, to give them something to struggle against and a sense of achievement thereby. That having been said however, no matter how easy you try to make some things, they are intrinsically difficult to an extent nevertheless. By aiming for the impossible, then actually doing it, we can test just how easy we can make something which should not only be hard, but impossible...

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Talkingfox]

My diet and activity levels make a HUGE difference in ALL aspects of my life.
My eating plan is very regimented right now (to the point where a few of my friends have started calling me Helga the Food Nazi) and I've found that the more even insulin levels and subsequent blood sugars effect my cognitive and emotional functionality in a big way.
Heavy workouts are NOT optional for me and my weightroom time is sacred.

My life was plagued with chronic pain, obesity no matter what I did and mental health issues. After many years of looking and trying and trying again, we found that all this time that I had undiagnosed Celiac Disease and that eliminating all gluten products fixed the whole shebang. The Docs that I saw couldn't see it because I didn't present classically.

So...for the now I'm on a strictly whole food diet with an approx. 45/40/15 macro rack up. I eat 5-6 times a day. No dairy, added salt, added sugars of any kind including honey, added fats, or processed ANYTHING and I drink 100-120 oz of plain water everyday. I limit grains because they make me go into a glycemic spin. I ALWAYS combine my carbs with a protein and make sure both are of a high quality and from a clean source.

So..since the shift the pain is gone, I've been dropping body fat at an astounding rate, putting on muscle almost as fast, I've had zero anxiety or depression issues and my energy levels resemble a small nuclear powerplant. On top of all of that my friends tell me I look like I'm aging in reverse. Life is good.

So...back to the question. Does diet and whatnot make a difference in my Magickal life? HELL YES

[feranaja]

TF, your story and mine are close to identical. I can't tolerate gluten, I struggled with weight all my life...I have to watch blood sugar and make sure I have protein at every meal..and I'm aging in reverse too.

Lifestyle management is miraculous! Can I ask, what supplements do you take, or do you react to them? I'd like to get more into weights as well - my focus is walking, Pilates and yoga but I do some light upper body stuff as well. I live in the country and can't easily access a gym but there are like 30 yoga classes closeby...I'm just sure my metabolism (not to mention my bones) would benefit from the workout/addedmuscle.

Also - I had horrible anxiety attacks back when I was eating yeast, gluten, sugar etc and they vanished entirely once I got on a diet that works for me.

It's actually a thrill for me to have met someone else with such a parallel story. Do you take any supplements? What inspired you to get started?
fera

[Talkingfox]

Supplements: A good multi, B-Complex, Cal-Mag-Zinc, Malic Acid, as much extra Magnesium as my system will tolerate, Creatine, and fish or flax seed oil if I find my skin and hair getting too dry.

Wow..what got me started? SHEER FRUSTRATION. I've always had a drive to be active and work hard and I felt like my own body had become my worst enemy. I felt imprisoned. NOT a good feeling. So rather than listening to doctors and other forms of "learned" people tell I COULDN'T, I kept searching and trying until I found what worked. Believe me there were manymany failed experiments. But I am nothing if not a stubborn wench.

I still have some collateral damage from decades of my own immune system chewing on me and I've had to realize that a wise woman knows how to pick her battles. So what if I can't lift in competition which requires lifts that I'm not physically capable of doing after back surgery. I will do the BEST I can do on any given day...no snivelling, no excuses AND no coasting on my genetics!;)

As far as building muscle...well there's a whole lot of information out there. Most of it's geared toward men. But that being said if you want to build you must eat more calories than you burn...preferably lean protein. In order to be built like a 130 lb person one must eat like one. I think the important thing is to monitor your body fat/muscle ratio and adjust accordingly if you find yourself going catabolic. There are lots of resistance training things a person can do without the benefit of a gym...but the key is to seriously challenge the muscle, give it time to recover and not to overdo the intensity of your cardio while your in build phase assuming you're already as lean as you'd like to be.

This is a great link for women who weight train. Not only is it full of solid no BS info (including at home stuff!) but a blast to read as well.

http://www.stumptuous.com/cms/index.php

[feranaja]

Good supplement list TF - I take a shitload of antioxidnats, and probiotics, also L-glutamine, which might be worth your looking into as well.

What problems do you have with magnesium??

Thank you for the link too - I would like to work more on building but I'm not sure I can do it alone...will keep you posted..

I do have an elastic band and an advanced Pilates vid - does that count??
fera

[Aodh]

I'd gather the magnesium has to do with the muscle building, where it is an amazing helper.

[feranaja]

Magnesium performs a wide variety of functions inclduding regulating heart rhthym, which is why we use it with dogs who have specific heart disease. The most commonly reported side effect is GI distress but there are others...mmore info at:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/magnesium/
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=75

[Talkingfox]

There's also a tie in with Magnesium and ATP production.
I have no problems with Magnesium per se. but at the amounts I take I DO run the risk of intestinal....um...side effects.
I used to take a Glutamine/Glycine combo, but have discontinued it as it's very expensive and the Whey protein that I use has it in theraputic levels.

YES the bands and Pilates count! Resistance work is resistance work and body weight stuff is GREAT! You may, however , want to think about increasing the resistance level on the bands.

[feranaja]

There's also a tie in with Magnesium and ATP production.
I have no problems with Magnesium per se. but at the amounts I take I DO run the risk of intestinal....um...side effects.
I used to take a Glutamine/Glycine combo, but have discontinued it as it's very expensive and the Whey protein that I use has it in theraputic levels.

YES the bands and Pilates count! Resistance work is resistance work and body weight stuff is GREAT! You may, however , want to think about increasing the resistance level on the bands.
Yep, I'm a great believer in whey protein, in fact if I had to keep taking only one supplement whey would be choice number two - calcium/magenisum/D isnt optional for me since I have early onset osteoporosis. Another thing i wanted to discuss with you, I was thinking that with weights I should be supervised, I mean I'm not highly osteoporotic, we caught it in time (I had asked for a back Xray in 2001 because I was concerned about arthritis, and there was no arthritis but there WAS bone loss - mind you I was only 43 at the time so it was worrisome)...One reason I'm interested in weight training is for my bones. Any special advice? I use very light weights, like 5 - 10 lbs, and I do the standard upper body stuff, used to do it 6 days a week but work different groups each morning.

Wish you lived closer, you could be my personal coach, lol, and someone to talk shop with...:laugh: I have 3 million dog friends and nobody to work out with...
fera

[Talkingfox]

well if the 5 or 10 lb weights are too easy at the end of a set then they're too light. Without challenging the muscle there is no growth. I personally lift every set past lactic burn to full failure. Think of it like a callus response. Hypertrophy happens when the muscle gets slightly damaged and repairs itself stronger. At the kind of weights that you're talking I don't think you run any real risk of injury barring dropping one on your foot. That is unless you overtrain. I never work the same muscle group 2 days in a row.

Also, form in each movement is far more important than weight. Heavier isn't always better. Better is better. The focus should be on the contraction within the movement not the movement itself. Another biggie for women is to watch out for hyperextension of the joints at the bottom of a lift. When in doubt leave the joint just shy of full extension. We have a tendency to be flexier than the guys and therefore more prone to ligament strains and other connective tissue injuries.

As far as the mineral thing goes...try adding the Malic Acid to your mix if you're not already. It really facilitates the uptake of minerals.

You had mentioned that there are a lot of Yoga classes in your neck of the woods. Anyone teaching Ashtanga by any chance? With all the body weight asanas inherent to the form I think it would be a good choice to strengthen your lithe frame. I wish I could do it myself....but even at fighting lean my muscle mass alone won't allow me to get into some of the positions. I am in AWE of the strength levels (ESPECIALLY for their size!) of the practitioners of this particular form.

Yes it IS a pity that we can't go terrorize a gym somewhere :laugh: I'm fortunate in that I have a live in trainer. My partner is an ex-power lifter and won't let me perform one whit less than my best. A fine thing , that!

[feranaja]

well if the 5 or 10 lb weights are too easy at the end of a set then they're too light. Without challenging the muscle there is no growth. I personally lift every set past lactic burn to full failure. Think of it like a callus response. Hypertrophy happens when the muscle gets slightly damaged and repairs itself stronger. At the kind of weights that you're talking I don't think you run any real risk of injury barring dropping one on your foot. That is unless you overtrain. I never work the same muscle group 2 days in a row.

Also, form in each movement is far more important than weight. Heavier isn't always better. Better is better. The focus should be on the contraction within the movement not the movement itself. Another biggie for women is to watch out for hyperextension of the joints at the bottom of a lift. When in doubt leave the joint just shy of full extension. We have a tendency to be flexier than the guys and therefore more prone to ligament strains and other connective tissue injuries.

All good points TF ... I aprpeciate it. Recently I was at the point where the 10 pound weights werent enough, and then I stopped working out for a while...it's amazing how quickly one regresses as one gets older. SO I'm back to using the light end again but I will build up over time.I have great lower body strength and good muscle in the leg - I'm a hiker and power-walker - but the top could use some strengthening - plus there's the overall metabolic and bone issues. Weight training should be part of any woman's workout buy moreso over forty, no?

As far as the mineral thing goes...try adding the Malic Acid to your mix if you're not already. It really facilitates the uptake of minerals.

Not adding it but I will look into this. I try to be careful with when I take my minerals - never with high oxalate foods or those that contain phytate - this I learned fromworking with canines, who have a much higher calcium requirement than do humans and really can suffer if over or underfed minerals. If you feed a dog a lot of tofu for example even though it is very rich in calcium it's also loaded with phytate wihch cancels out a lot of absorption -still need to supplement with soem bone. but I digress <grin> As you point out it's not "just" aobut what supplememts to take, it's when to take them and how much, may exceed what the bottle tells you.

A case in point - which you probably know TF but others may not - is with regard to glucosamine, a so-called nutraceutical which millions of people and dogs take to ease or prevent symptoms of arthritis. Yet periodically i will hear "it didnt help at all"... even though studies have found that it's as effective as most NSAIDs at alleviating pain - and, unlike NSAIDs, does more than mask symptoms, it actually helps slow deteroriation of the cartilage. So when I've looked into why some people and some dogs don't seem to benefit, 9/10s of the time I see manganese deficiency. Now this is a common mineral deficiency in humans for lots of reasons, and I often use ground pumpkin seed to boost levels in canines.. But again, an example of how nutrients interact and supprt/antagonize one another. If you dont get 5 - 10 servings of fruit and vegetables daily, if you dont eat nutsa d seeds and if you partake of alcohol - chances are your manganese levels are lower. So now a lot of canine supplements are starting to add it to their joint formulas, but I dont see it as much in humans - we are sometimes behind the veterinary world when it comes to natural health, it seems.

You had mentioned that there are a lot of Yoga classes in your neck of the woods. Anyone teaching Ashtanga by any chance? With all the body weight asanas inherent to the form I think it would be a good choice to strengthen your lithe frame. I wish I could do it myself....but even at fighting lean my muscle mass alone won't allow me to get into some of the positions. I am in AWE of the strength levels (ESPECIALLY for their size!) of the practitioners of this particular form.

You know I was thinking about this recently - I've done mainly gentler forms like Kripalu...I am a bit on the delicate side and I'd like more core strength (hence the Pilates). I'm going to look at the class schedule now. I don't like the style that uses heated rooms - makes me feel faint...

Yes it IS a pity that we can't go terrorize a gym somewhere :laugh: I'm fortunate in that I have a live in trainer. My partner is an ex-power lifter and won't let me perform one whit less than my best. A fine thing , that!

AAARRGGHH - I just get more jealous all the time...you are so lucky! And I can imagine the two of us tearing up a gym - two Celtic warrior women - you wouldnt be a redhead by any chance are you?:laugh:

fera

[Talkingfox]

A redhead? Occasionally but not currently :laugh:

[feranaja]

A redhead? Occasionally but not currently :laugh:

Ahh, mu current incarnation is chocolate brown with cherry red streaks, but my natural colour is red. And if you're a redhead by birth you're a redhead by temperament. Although have to say I'm working on it!! Havnt thrown an amp through a window in at least 2 decades...:laugh:

To kep this on topic, I have to say I overdid it a bit yesterday - pub food and pitchers of Moosehead, although imbibed sloooowly as I was driving...and I feel awful today. It doesnt take much to set me back (but I had fun doing it..). Do you believe in detox..TF, anyone? I know it's a controversial topic, but I do think there's something to it especoally in terms of the liver. I usually detox by cutting out all meat and grain, and eating only fruit vegetables and bean concoctions with unheated oils, no dairy except in coffee (there's detox, and then there's going insane from withdrawal symptoms).

I also use a range of liver supplements such as alpha lipoic acid, milk thistle and green foods, spirulina/chlorella...it's usually gross (I can see Naomi wrinkling her nose in revulsion lol) but after a few days I feel fantastic. I'm thinknhg of doing one after Christmas, or a short - weeklong? version starting this week, so I dont feel all gross when its time to overindulge.

I think today at least I need to let my system reboot itself. I'm not *that* physically delicate, but one day of nachos and beer and I feel like I have a bowling ball in my tummy.

how did we ever live on this stuff all the time? My diet when I was younger was quite horrifying...:laugh:

fera

[Talkingfox]

Boy do I WISH I could still have the occasional beer! Too much gluten in it unfortunately.

I'm pretty nice to my liver these day as a little over a year ago they found some weird tumors. Stupid Celiac Disease!

As far as the detox thing goes I personally don't do well on the standard "detox" diet. There isn't enough protein for my system and my blood sugars do all kinds of funky stuff and I go catabolic in a hot second.

I DO, however, use spirulana on a regular basis as well as milk thistle, dandelion root, burdock, and chickweed to keep things clear and smooth.

Yeah my diet has been pretty horrifying at times as well. When did foods that were meant to be occasional "treats" become staples of the diet????

[Talkingfox]

Oh Fera...I thought of something else that may help on your muscle building quest. Creatine, either as a supplement or adding more foods that contain it. My favorite source is Salmon

[feranaja]

Yes, my friend who is into body building takes creatine - but dont you need to take a fair bit for it to have effect? I eat salmon on a regular basis, but I thought you have to take a powdered form? And I need a dose for malic acid, if you think that's wortha try too.

I hear you about treat foods becoming staples, Its very challenging to find things to eat on a regular menu, I ordered nachos since they were at least not deep fried, but corn does me in, not to mention beer. This pub we went ot is the oNLY place in town we can take dogs, so I didnt have an option...Still - we make our choices and pay the piper, lol...

I think of detox as any diet that takes out the excess of what we have been doing, so if youve been overdoing carb laden vegetarian food? a steak and eggs diet is a form of detox - no? At least this is how it works in dogs, a lot of people take their dogs off of commercial diet and feed a raw diet, and the dog "miraculously" improves...it can take months or even years for nutritional imbalances to show up, and then we see this raw diet was helpful only insofar as it corrected the imbalnces of the diet preceding it. I think this model applies to humans, so I'm hoping to get this *&$%^# gluten out of my system once and for all...even a small backslide has consequences...


I'm sorry to hear about your liver TF - have you had a re-check? At least its a very resilient organ and if you manage whatever is going on, as you obviously are, then you dont have to panic. It's just that "t" word is alwasy scary, isn't it...

fera

[Talkingfox]

On the creatine: Most BB's do a load phase and then lower dosage. I didn't. I just do the standard non-load dose which is about 5 gms daily. I've found it help immensely with muscle recovery and with the next day "owies" You don't actually HAVE to take it in powdered form, but when one is on a lowfat routine like mine it's hard to get enough from food, as most creatine containing stuff is fairly high fat.

Wouldn't you know I just ran out of Malic acid and chucked the bottle?? I THINK it's around 250 mg taken with your minerals. It doesn't have a toxic factor...it's fruit acid.

I agree with you on the detox as removal of excess. I had a fairly good diet before I started lifting, but when I went that extra inch I actually had detox symptoms.

Ah my liver's good. We check function every 6 months or so as I have a weird one in there that once in a great while goes cancerous. But so long as I'm livin' clean, not beating it up and making sure my HEAD backs up my physical stuff all will be well. I've had to remove alcohol and oil paints from my life, but that won't kill me. After all I've done to myself over the years I'm surprised it's not concrete by now. lolol

[feranaja]

TF - thank you..and I'm glad to hear you are doing so well. No alcohil or oil paints? Thats rough, but I guess necessary. YOur art is fabulous whatever medium you work in - I'd miss the wine though!

Will let you know how I get on with the weights and supplements, too. I'm including th SLoan Kettering site which offers a ton of very reliable info on supplements for cancer - preventive and therapeutic - and is a good source overall (if I posted this before, my apologies...I'm planning to start a Links and Resources topic for this forum later today anyway so hopefully some good reading for those who are interested.
http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/11570.cfm?tab=HC


Anyone else, is there a link between your diet and magic? Anyone experiment with this beyond the obvious (you cant be effective when you're ill) etc?

fera

[Talkingfox]

yes it does. Fr'instance...when my B vitamins are lacking I stop dreaming. Vital for my stuff.

I think the biggest magickal tie in for me is optimization. I want to be firing on ALL cylinders at the best it can be. I spent much of my life just trying not to be ill; in survival mode. Now I'm going from survival to thrival which is more than an absence of illness.

When I'm on my game both in diet and action I find that my retention level is better, my reflexes are quicker, my thought processes and deductive abilities are less reactionary and more even , my concentration levels better and my overall energy levels higher. If all that isn't a good foundation for magickal work...well I don't know what is. :)

[Talkingfox]

oops sorry...that question was geared to the rest of the forum...and I had already answered it before....must be bed time!

[Zaii]

Ahh, mu current incarnation is chocolate brown with cherry red streaks, but my natural colour is red. And if you're a redhead by birth you're a redhead by temperament. Although have to say I'm working on it!! Havnt thrown an amp through a window in at least 2 decades...:laugh:

To kep this on topic, I have to say I overdid it a bit yesterday - pub food and pitchers of Moosehead, although imbibed sloooowly as I was driving...and I feel awful today. It doesnt take much to set me back (but I had fun doing it..). Do you believe in detox..TF, anyone? I know it's a controversial topic, but I do think there's something to it especoally in terms of the liver. I usually detox by cutting out all meat and grain, and eating only fruit vegetables and bean concoctions with unheated oils, no dairy except in coffee (there's detox, and then there's going insane from withdrawal symptoms).

I also use a range of liver supplements such as alpha lipoic acid, milk thistle and green foods, spirulina/chlorella...it's usually gross (I can see Naomi wrinkling her nose in revulsion lol) but after a few days I feel fantastic. I'm thinknhg of doing one after Christmas, or a short - weeklong? version starting this week, so I dont feel all gross when its time to overindulge.

I think today at least I need to let my system reboot itself. I'm not *that* physically delicate, but one day of nachos and beer and I feel like I have a bowling ball in my tummy.

how did we ever live on this stuff all the time? My diet when I was younger was quite horrifying...:laugh:

fera

I know what you mean about one day of "nachos and beer" setting you off. Since making gradual changes to a healthier diet, when I try to eat the junk I did before it feels like hell. I've lost my appetite for almost all of it.

Spirulina....my ex used to call me an alien because I absolutely -love- the way it tastes and feels.

[feranaja]

How do you take it, zaii? I admit I find it pretty disgusting - I use a chlorella/spirulina mixture and take it in a drink,usually vegetable juice since I dont handle sugar (fruit juice) well, or else in a soup, if I make a very flavourful soup then it masks the taste..somewhat.
But overall, algae is... pretty gross, lol...

For me it's worth it because of the nutrients it contains that are hard to obtain elsewhere, such as SOD (superoxide dismutase) and GLA (gamma linolenic acid ) but above all, because of the detoxifying effect on the liver. We're all so filled with chemical crap now, anything that helps flush some out has to be good. CHlorella is especially good for this task, too.

fera

[Zaii]

How do you take it, zaii? I admit I find it pretty disgusting - I use a chlorella/spirulina mixture and take it in a drink,usually vegetable juice since I dont handle sugar (fruit juice) well, or else in a soup, if I make a very flavourful soup then it masks the taste..somewhat.
But overall, algae is... pretty gross, lol...

For me it's worth it because of the nutrients it contains that are hard to obtain elsewhere, such as SOD (superoxide dismutase) and GLA (gamma linolenic acid ) but above all, because of the detoxifying effect on the liver. We're all so filled with chemical crap now, anything that helps flush some out has to be good. CHlorella is especially good for this task, too.

fera

Powder form, "dissolved" (which really means grows to fungus monster proportions) in water or pomegranate juice.

I was won over in the whole supplement battle recently. Before I thought supplements were a total waste but they've been treating me pretty well.

[feranaja]

Ah, was that me who did the winning over? I hope so, it would make my day. I absolutely swear by them, but they have to be the right ones and the right dosages.

[Zaii]

You spurred my interest and got me researching, and then a couple of guys who train in some of the same things I do sealed the deal for me.

I'm still working out what suits me best right now but I'm glad to have started looking into it at all.

[feranaja]

You spurred my interest and got me researching, and then a couple of guys who train in some of the same things I do sealed the deal for me.

I'm still working out what suits me best right now but I'm glad to have started looking into it at all.

Good to hear it, I know I'm a bit of a nag...

Talking Fox is another great resource whose specialty seems to be nutritional support for body builders. I tend to things like natural management of arthritis, cancer (my specialty) and allergy, all three of which are close to epidemics in canines but the protocols we use are exactly the same as for humans. In my opinion, the first thing you need to look at is what required nutrients might your diet be low in and find ways to supplement there - and this need not mean taking pills, either. For example I often use brazil nuts for selenium, various nuts and seeds for trace minerals like manganese which almots everyone is low in. This is requirement nutrition; of course if you want to use say vitamins such as A, C and E for antioxidants, then much higher doses are suggested.

After ensuring that your baseline nutrition is good, you can look into which supplements you want to use for specific purposes; I take a lot of antioxidants, natural anti inflammatories and anti aging amino and fatty acids. I truly believe that almost everyone can benefit from probiotics, green foods (like spirulina) and fish body oil. The rest can get very individual and the foundation is always a diet that provides essential nutrition from food sources that agree with your specific bioindividuality.

Ahhh... my second favourite topic...:laugh:
fera

[Naomi]

I also use a range of liver supplements such as alpha lipoic acid, milk thistle and green foods, spirulina/chlorella...it's usually gross (I can see Naomi wrinkling her nose in revulsion lol) but after a few days I feel fantastic. I'm thinknhg of doing one after Christmas, or a short - weeklong? version starting this week, so I dont feel all gross when its time to overindulge.

No I can't get this cat shit out of my reeboks. Nothing can make me wrinkle my nose in revulsion right now.

Seriously though, I grew up in my highchair eating seaweed and brown rice. It's really my Greg who recoiled after I offered him a straight shot of goldenseal without warning him that it was the worst taste in the universe.

So lately I've been eating bentonite. Well guess what I had bentonite for breakfast and a box of frango chocolates for lunch.

I feel great, though, weirdly enough.

But now, typing about this has inspired me to go throw my cat shit shoes in the washer and fix a lunch and take my fish oil, calcium, glucosamine, gold, garlic and bach flower stuff.

What do you think about taking so many things at once? Does the body care if it gets dosed all at once or does it prefer things to be staggered out throughout the day or even week.

[feranaja]

No I can't get this cat shit out of my reeboks. Nothing can make me wrinkle my nose in revulsion right now.

Seriously though, I grew up in my highchair eating seaweed and brown rice. It's really my Greg who recoiled after I offered him a straight shot of goldenseal without warning him that it was the worst taste in the universe.

So lately I've been eating bentonite. Well guess what I had bentonite for breakfast and a box of frango chocolates for lunch.

I feel great, though, weirdly enough.

But now, typing about this has inspired me to go throw my cat shit shoes in the washer and fix a lunch and take my fish oil, calcium, glucosamine, gold, garlic and bach flower stuff.

What do you think about taking so many things at once? Does the body care if it gets dosed all at once or does it prefer things to be staggered out throughout the day or even week.

eeewww...catshit. I feel for you.

Now one thing here - the advantage of a hippie mum is that you probably have one helluva strong system...I grew up - as did many in my generation - eating LUCKY CHARMS , KFC and pop tarts and look at the mess WE got into - now we have no choice but to live on seaweed. What we eat on our formative years has great influence on our health later on...


I can't believe you gave Greg straight goldenseal, next time mix in some myrrh and skullcap, lol - I mean, most herbs are revolting, no? I cant take echinacea as I have an auto-immune disease, but damn - I'm glad I cant, its disgusting stuff too.

In answer to your question - which fwiw I think is a very good one - a few things. Overall I think this grouping is fine to take together, I take many more supps than this and while some need to be speareyed I dont see that in your list.

First, if you take fish oil you need to increase your intake of Vitamin E. Fish oils are excellent so long as they are molecular purified, its sickening I know, but there have been traces (or more) of stuff like mercury and pcbs in commercial fish oil, so you want one that is "pharmaceutical grade" and you want it fresh. Increasing ones intake of EPA and DHA - the good fattys acids we tend to just call Omega 3s - also can decrease serum levels of the tocopherol family so increase the E, and extra E as an antioxidant can offset any potential peroxidation from rancidity, which happens no matter how hard we try to avoid it.


Dont believe the recent mainstream crap about Vitamin E being useless or dangerous, its hype and based on bad science. You DO want to use a full spectrum E, meaning not "just" alpha-tocopherol but the whole tocopherol family - alpha beta delta gamma - and if possible use a product that contains the tocotrienols as well. These products are a lot more expensive than the simple synthetic alpha-tocopherol everyone used to us but if you want the health benreits unfortunately you need to pay more.

Info on Vitamin E:
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/oct2002_report_gamma_01.html
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminE/

and I like only two specific brands, I use New Roots Herbal for myself and my dogs, and the LEF foundation makes a good full spectrum E as well (on their site).

How much and what kind of fish oil are you taking??

Now again I dont see any specific interactions with the products you have listed here. Remeber that glucosamine may be more effective is used in a formula that contains manganese and chondroitin sulfate, and please check any brand youre using at www.consumerlab.com (http://www.consumerlab.com) - sadly many brands don't even contain the active ingredients they claim to, so it behooves us to check on their reputation. (If your brand isn't on there PM me, I subscribe to consumerlab and will track it for you. I personally like this RxOmega3 by Natural factors, but there are other good ones out there and several that probably do more harm than good...


Arew you taking gold for energy balancing? Has it helped?

As for BFEs, I've been using them for over 2 decades and I think they are the most powerful flower essences in the world. You can take them anytime. I use them extensively with dogs, although Sharon Callahan's anaflora line ( www.anaflora.com (http://www.anaflora.com)) is currently very hot in the dog world (and Sharon is a sweetheart) I still came back to Bach and hope to do the training one day. I often put whatever I need that day in a glass of water and just sip it all day long. SO no worries there that I am aware of.

More on this later, hope its helpful...
fera

[Naomi]

Fera...that is a lot of information. I think my fish oil is pretty funky as I keep it in the cupboard above the dryer. HEH.

But I do notice a difference. It's the generic version from Member's Mark which is the Sam's Club variety. There's not much more I can say about it just that I notice a difference in my mental clarity when I take it.

So let me ask you this. Do you know how the Bach Flower Remedies work? I have an esoteric reasoning for it myself but I wondered if there was something the scientists knew about it too...

I also take them straight. You know a Gemini has no time for SIPPING WATER ALL DAY LONG. I mean damn!

It's good to hear that info about vitamin E, and you know it's funny I DID stop taking it daily with the fish oil because I heard those rumors. It's like when I listen to scientists and doctors, I fuck up my nutrition, but when I listen to old wive's tales like eating fish or taking certain herbs, it's good for me...

And to tell you the truth I've actually had problems from growing up on the health food diet because it's difficult for my body to handle mainstream foods in heavy quantities. I guess it's because whole foods and seaweed are good for everybody overall.

But I don't have diabetes, cancer or any major problems so it is something to be thankful for. My mother grew up on the 50's diet, which included lots of antibiotics and junk food...and she's healthier than me. But she eats better than me these days and takes more supplements. :D

She raised me on a macrobiotic diet as written in the books of Michio Kushi (sp?) (and as I tell you that now I have to laugh because I actually expect you to know what that is)

[Naomi]

Oh yeah Fera I was running out the door when I posted this yesterday but I forgot to say thanks for the information it was really helpful.

I don't know if the gold has helped or not, as I havn't been keeping track of what I'm taking or how I feel except when something disagrees with me.

Logically it should....I just remember reading somewhere that it helped something and the body required it yet it couldn't be found in most grocery store foods.

[feranaja]

...that is a lot of information. I think my fish oil is pretty funky as I keep it in the cupboard above the dryer. HEH.

ouch..just keep it in the fridge - please for me? You worry me sometimes you know that:laugh:

But I do notice a difference. It's the generic version from Member's Mark which is the Sam's Club variety. There's not much more I can say about it just that I notice a difference in my mental clarity when I take it.

Do you by any chance have ADHD, Naomi? The fact your mental clarity improves suggests you might, as the Omega3s in fish oil - particularly DHA - can help alleviate some of the problems associated with ADHD.

http://www.mercola.com/2002/jul/20/adhd.htm

http://www.contemporarypediatrics.com/contpeds/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=185939

It also suggests there is active ingredient in the oil too, but still it really should be kept cold.


So let me ask you this. Do you know how the Bach Flower Remedies work? I have an esoteric reasoning for it myself but I wondered if there was something the scientists knew about it too...

I have some ideas but the best and most expedient way to expand on this, is to give you some resources:

The Bach Centre itself is probably the best source for information although I'm not sure if you will find what you're looking for here:
http://www.bachcentre.com/index.html

I looked at Wikipedia and the resources here are all interesting and accurate as far as my own knowledge suggests:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bach_flower_remedies

Most scholarly reviews I am aware of reiterate that the BFEs offer only placebo effect, but I'd have to ask - coming from a magickal perspective that is - SO WHAT?
http://www.springer.at/periodicals/fulltxt/00435325/full_2002_114_23_963.pdf


I also take them straight. You know a Gemini has no time for SIPPING WATER ALL DAY LONG. I mean damn!

WEll that made me smile, I'm a Gemini too AND I have ADHD - but I work online so I just - pour the water, plop in the FEs, and sip. I'm so responsive to them its not funny. My friend who has been using them with her companion animals thinks she's seeing a huge improvement in some of the behaviours she was worrying about; her husband however has a different slant on it; he calls the FEs "cat booze" and thinks the felines are behaving themselves because they're drunk.



It's good to hear that info about vitamin E, and you know it's funny I DID stop taking it daily with the fish oil because I heard those rumors. It's like when I listen to scientists and doctors, I fuck up my nutrition, but when I listen to old wive's tales like eating fish or taking certain herbs, it's good for me...

For me it's a matter of taking the valuable ideas form both quadrants. I've seen some real damage from people following "old wives tales" that are now scientifically discredited, and I see an enormous amount of BS out of the science community as well. Both areas have their biases; as a resource person by profession, I attempt to detach from any "allegiance" and find whats best, what works in a given situation. This is why I won't sell supplements on my website; if a different company makes a better one? Thats't the one I'll suggest to my clients.
It sounds to me like you listen to your body and your spirit and respond very effectively. I never cease to be amazed at how foreign an idea that is to many people.

And to tell you the truth I've actually had problems from growing up on the health food diet because it's difficult for my body to handle mainstream foods in heavy quantities. I guess it's because whole foods and seaweed are good for everybody overall.

This is a good thing, though, isn't it? I often think I'm aging so slowly not because I take huge doses of L-arginine and do yoga, but because there's so much BHA/BHT in my system...

]But I don't have diabetes, cancer or any major problems so it is something to be thankful for. My mother grew up on the 50's diet, which included lots of antibiotics and junk food...and she's healthier than me. But she eats better than me these days and takes more supplements. :D

Hear hear, I like your Mom already. But seriously? Its encouraging to me when I hear about Boomers and people my age who have managed to turn around various health problems that we "think" of as naturally occurring with age but are actually resulting from bad diet, overuse of drugs like antibiotics, and environmental toxins(and stress...yikes). There's hope for my generation yet!

You just keep on preventing illness, taking care of yourself and you'll be ahead of us in my age group by a mile.


She raised me on a macrobiotic diet as written in the books of Michio Kushi (sp?) (and as I tell you that now I have to laugh because I actually expect you to know what that is)

I do, he was a student of the originator of the diet, no? I admit, I have several issues with macrobiotics, but overall it represents a better approach to nutrition than the SAD (standard american diet). I will say my bias is that of a nutritionist and that is; I need any diet I work up to be fully balanced in terms of the knowledge we currently possess regarding nutrient essentiality and interaction. The macrobiotic is not, it kind of irks the scientist in me. But if you asked me, would I rather see a kid raised on pop tarts and KFC, or macrobiotics? No contest. I'm only 48 - an adolesent by life extensionist's standards - and I have Graves disease, a heart problem, osteopeania and ADHD. YOu tell me none of that is nutritionally related? It almost all is. And so to stay healthy and youthfully energetic I have to monitor not only my diet but my sleeping, exercise and stress - exquisitely carefully.

If there's a silver lining in all of that its probably that taking such good care now means i will live a long and energetic life. BUt its a lot of work, whereas younger people can do less and get more mileage out of it. In the case of nutrition, I think the old adage about a n ounce of prevention is really well worth taking note of.


Say hi to your Mom for me. My dogs are my kids and Lila eats better than any human I know and takes 27 supplements a day - and she's 12 going on 7. This stuff works but dammit - it's not always easy!

fera

[Naomi]

No I don't have ADHD. I don't run into the problem unless I'm using my brain intensely, such as when I'm working on a painting layout or on a paper. Then the signs I need some DHA or vitamins is I get a light headache and can't really grasp an idea fully. I don't have a problem otherwise...I can live like any normal human...but not a superhuman!!! When I read about ADD I didn't know what to think. I'm holding the opinion right now that it's not really a disease but a deficiency problem for highly gifted individuals. I had a cousin with ADD. When he was young he seemed smart and talented. They began dosing him with medication like crazy, His parents were oppressive neo-christian conservatives. His mom used to call me "demon girl". Just last year he died from complications with his medication for ADD. I don't think he ever took DHA supplements, and I know their childhood diet was crap. I was always really quiet and bookish throughout my childhood, and even when I was in highschool I kept to myself...not because I was introverted...I was just too busy thinking. So you wouldn't have really thought I was a typical ADD child...and my internet personality is not like my irl personality. (hmm there's a new thread idea)

Bach doesn't offer a placebo affect, we can see that by how dogs act when they get some, or children. There is a noticeable improvement when I give Greg random things in his beverages that he doesn't know about. :D

So either Bach works or I'm influencing people with my mind. Well I don't care, most scientists are turds except maybe Bill Nye the Science guy...and Einstein.


L-arginine and do yoga, but because there's so much BHA/BHT in my system...L-arginine and BHA/BHT? What is that? :(

I think you would get along good with my mom. She is a lot nicer than I am and she has kept wolves for twenty years.

"Science has a lot to answer for from the invention of dynamite to the development of weapons of mass destruction such as the atomic bomb. It is what defines the history of our modern world. Ninjutsu, in contrast, has not committed such errors; Ninja understood all along that science was a demonic art which altered the nature of things. The Ninja always concentrated on the relationship between heaven, earth and man, and lived in accordance with natural providence. A Ninja's duty is surely to sneak into the world of science and ensure that it is the servant, not the master. Do you not agree?"

- Masaaki Hatsumi

[feranaja]

First, here's alink for an article on homeopathy, which strictly speaking Bach isn't, but based on the same principles. Have a look and see if there';s anything valuable for you here.

http://www.mercola.com/display/PrintPage.aspx?docid=27564&PrintPage=yes


No I don't have ADHD. I don't run into the problem unless I'm using my brain intensely, such as when I'm working on a painting layout or on a paper. Then the signs I need some DHA or vitamins is I get a light headache and can't really grasp an idea fully. I don't have a problem otherwise...I can live like any normal human...but not a superhuman!!! When I read about ADD I didn't know what to think. I'm holding the opinion right now that it's not really a disease but a deficiency problem for highly gifted individuals.

I'm glad you don't have it Naomi, because well - it really sucks.

BUt your theory is interesting to me as well. The people I know who really suffer with ADHD - outside of myself, I am a bit above average intellectually but no Ken Wilber, lol - are all quite remarkable, intellectually speaking. And we get branded with this label "difficult" well, to that I say, try BEING an ADHD person if you want to experience difficulty. One reason I isolate myself is that I get tired of explaining that I really am listening when it appears I'm not, that I find focusing difficult but dont mind being put back on track and that a lot of stuff going on around me DOES render me unable to think staright. Sometimes I have to explain these thinsg to people who have known me 20 years, too. It's frustrating.

I have been looking into a related neural processing condition that I am sure I suffer from and is closely related to ADHD - Sensory Defensiveness, which has been a fascinating discovery for me since I'm sure dogs suffer from it as well and end up being labelled aggressive and euthanized simply because humans feel its their right to manhandle other species - some dogs cant tolerate it, so I've been looking into SD both from a personal and professional perspective. I'm sure Luke suffered from it since he could not stand to be touched, he needed about a foot around him on every side, and one reason we bonded so closely was that I accepted this and didnt force myself on him. Another person might have been greatly dissatisified - we all like snuggly dogs - but for me it was just who he was. If only people could be as understanding with one another...

Here's a link in case you're interested, the primary symptoms are extreme sensitivity to light, sound and touch, but a number of other behaviours fall into this category as well.

http://www.tsbvi.edu/Outreach/seehear/fall97/sensory.htm


I had a cousin with ADD. When he was young he seemed smart and talented. They began dosing him with medication like crazy, His parents were oppressive neo-christian conservatives. His mom used to call me "demon girl". Just last year he died from complications with his medication for ADD. I don't think he ever took DHA supplements, and I know their childhood diet was crap.

Thats so tragic - all I can say is how sorry I am, and that sadly, this isn't an isolated incident. I looooved Ritalin, it DID make "everything normal" for me, but I stopped taking it for many reasons. I manage my symptoms with diet, exercise, sleeping properly and so on. Not drugs. Ok, well a bit of vino. But thats a terrible tragedy and I'm so sorry to hear about it.
When I was little, similar descriptions were piled on me, even by non-Christians. I consider it a compliment now!

I was always really quiet and bookish throughout my childhood, and even when I was in highschool I kept to myself...not because I was introverted...I was just too busy thinking. So you wouldn't have really thought I was a typical ADD child...and my internet personality is not like my irl personality. (hmm there's a new thread idea)


Shall you start it, or shall I? :laugh:
Hhmmm, a quiet bookish Naomi..I can see that but then - I'm a Gemini too.

Bach doesn't offer a placebo affect, we can see that by how dogs act when they get some, or children. There is a noticeable improvement when I give Greg random things in his beverages that he doesn't know about. :D

So either Bach works or I'm influencing people with my mind. Well I don't care, most scientists are turds except maybe Bill Nye the Science guy...and Einstein.

Thats so funny - I used to give my ex Beech all the time to get him to shut up about politics, which I loathe - worked like a charm! And yes, with dogs and cats too, of course its not placebo. We just don't know how it works so - it gets labelled placebo.



L-arginine and BHA/BHT? What is that? :(

L-arginine is an essential amino acid that is thought to offer specific health benefits when taken in large doses:
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00040.html
http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/herbsvitaminsad/a/Arginine.htm

It's not a supplement to use unless you know what youre doing; I've been taking it to stimulate the production of HGH (human growth hormone) which is also thought to slow down the aging process. Its not that I'm vain so much as, I have so damn much left to do, lol...

And BHA/BHT are preservatives which, until recently, were widely used in animal foods and have recently been discontinued by the better companies (if you see them listed on a commerical pet food package, don't buy it!). They are thought to be carcinogenic in small animals at doses much lower than we humans can tolerate - it's in our foods too...but dogs for example are smaller and have much faster metabolism and shorter life spans, so it follows they have lower tolerance for chemicals. I grew up eating BHA and BHT so my fervent hope is, its perhaps sort of pickled me...:laugh:

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/toxicology_of_bha.htm
This is a canine site but the best one I have handy - if you google it you'll get a lot of info, though.


I think you would get along good with my mom. She is a lot nicer than I am and she has kept wolves for twenty years.

Oy vey - she's my hero, already...wolves? That takes a special individual.

And I thought Ridgebacks were hard work...

"Science has a lot to answer for from the invention of dynamite to the development of weapons of mass destruction such as the atomic bomb. It is what defines the history of our modern world. Ninjutsu, in contrast, has not committed such errors; Ninja understood all along that science was a demonic art which altered the nature of things. The Ninja always concentrated on the relationship between heaven, earth and man, and lived in accordance with natural providence. A Ninja's duty is surely to sneak into the world of science and ensure that it is the servant, not the master. Do you not agree?"


Hhhmmm, powerful quote allright , but my answer is - at this point - yes and no. I can't fully demonize science when I see all the good it's proper application has brought. It's the excess and arrogance that creates problems, but that's true of anything, isn't it?

In my work with dogs I constantly refer to the science but have no qualms at all transcending it when the evidence is everywhere that I need to. Make any sense to you? I'd like to see the so-called alternative approach and the allopathic become friends and work together...both have so much to offer..probably a pipe dream I guess..

fera

[Naomi]

Interesting stuff Fera. I'm really of the opinion all of these so called diseases can be cured or diminished greatly through magical work or what is probably more respectably titled alchemical work. I also see alchemy as the balanced way for achieving advancement, rather than science, which provides us with both an unbalanced view and result in comparison to the holistic system of alchemy, but would be loathe to produce the abominations which science has brought us. Science has also brought about some of the very things that cause the health problems it also proposes it will cure eventually. (Some of which alchemy already addresses) Not only that, but science wouldn't really be anywhere without the great Hermetic Alchemists. They stood on the shoulders of giants....



It's not too tragic about my cousin, he was going to become a fundamentalist preacher of the Christian persuasion and we all know we don't need anymore of those in the world, really. He actually visited me the day before I heard the announcement, in a dream. I never really thought very much of him before that and hadn't seen him in 10 years or so. I don't remember him saying anything, perhaps just his curiosity wanting to explore before he took the step into his next mission. I do felt he was trying to say something to me, but I only recieved a sense from him that all was well and some sort of understanding had overcome him in regards to me. But I don't know. I never bothered telling his mother as there's only so far I'll go for fundamentalist Christians.

And hmm, you know I think the key to figuring out all of these diseases will be found somewhere in the future when m1thr0s completes the star model and we have a clearer view of just what DNA is and what it can do.

When all of these beings from higher dimensions come down and cram themselves into the low form of humans something's going to give. I think that is happening a lot allover the planet.


Thats so funny - I used to give my ex Beech all the time to get him to shut up about politics, which I loathe - worked like a charm! And yes, with dogs and cats too, of course its not placebo. We just don't know how it works so - it gets labelled placebo.Haha oh that's great! STFU BEEETCH! :D :P


I read up on arginine, that is really curious stuff. Looks complicated to take. Any particular natural source you can get it from in significant amounts that doesn't require pills?




Yeah wolves are interesting creatures. It's like living with a gang or something, you always have to establish dominance. I grew up with them so...you know, I know how to handle them and how to train them but I wouldn't get one. They're just too much work and responsibility.

[feranaja]

Interesting stuff Fera. I'm really of the opinion all of these so called diseases can be cured or diminished greatly through magical work or what is probably more respectably titled alchemical work. I also see alchemy as the balanced way for achieving advancement, rather than science, which provides us with both an unbalanced view and result in comparison to the holistic system of alchemy, but would be loathe to produce the abominations which science has brought us. Science has also brought about some of the very things that cause the health problems it also proposes it will cure eventually. (Some of which alchemy already addresses) Not only that, but science wouldn't really be anywhere without the great Hermetic Alchemists. They stood on the shoulders of giants....

I'm more or less with you on this, naomi, with some notable exceptions. When I was 13 a kid in my class threw a pen at me - not intending to hurt me - and split my eyeball open. If it wasn't for laser technology and very precise medical technique I'd have lost my eye, which now actually functions better than the other one. I'm grateful for certain advancements in science particularly with regard to things like injury. Many diseases are of course induced through lifestyle... but that gets into a grey area of politics and so on and I'm not sure I know WhAT the answer is there...



And hmm, you know I think the key to figuring out all of these diseases will be found somewhere in the future when m1thr0s completes the star model and we have a clearer view of just what DNA is and what it can do.

I find his work totally fascinating now I have a better handle on it than I had. ..myriad applications, it's worth the effort to understanding...



Haha oh that's great! STFU BEEETCH! :D :P

WEll GOd knows I love Aquarians and I can listen to them rant for hours on end - AS LONG AS it's not about POLITICS!:no: He'd be close to aneurysm over some conservative up here and Id pop the Beech in - five minutes later he'd fall asleep. I kid you not. I highly recommend Beech for the intolerant in our midst...and the beeeetches, lol



I read up on arginine, that is really curious stuff. Looks complicated to take. Any particular natural source you can get it from in significant amounts that doesn't require pills?

This is tough since amino acids don't occur in isolation, and also since you'd have to eat so damn much of a given food to equal the amount considered therapeutic. I don't see a lot of value in it unless you're on an anti aging programme, or if you have cancer. We use L-arginine therapeutically with high dose EPA and DHA (fish oils) to treat specific cancers, notably lymphoma. I'll dig out some info for you later, I have tons of this stuff on file, just need to find it.



Yeah wolves are interesting creatures. It's like living with a gang or something, you always have to establish dominance. I grew up with them so...you know, I know how to handle them and how to train them but I wouldn't get one. They're just too much work and responsibility.

Yes indeed,and even the wolfdog hybrids are too much work for the average person or anyone with a busy life. These animals are best left in the wild or living with the truly experienced. One thing i have to throw in at ths point is that the Dominance Paradigm has been largely discredited when applied to canis familiaris - there's probably been more damage down to domestic dogs from this theory being thrown around than anything since Purina sold its first bag of scrapings off the slaughterhouse floor. (No offense to Purina feeders, but the company is ripping people off and it burns my ass). Every day I have to clean up some mess made by people insisting their dog was "dominant" and needed "to be told who's boss" whewn the reality is, he was bored, understimulated, unwell, desparately trying to communicate with the thick-as-a-brick human who couldnt comprehend what he was saying - so he said it louder. People are so arrogant sometimes. Dominance in domestic canids is a rare, rare thing, but to hear people talk you'd think every time the dog farted they were asserting something.

Now I've got that off my chest - lol -I'd love to hear more about your wolf experiences - ah maybe another thread is coming on...or maybe I need some Rescue Remedy after talking about how humans dont get dogs..gggrrr..superior species my foot..
fera

[feranaja]

http://www.supplementwatch.com/suplib/supplement.asp?DocId=1020

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/l-arginine/NS_patient-arginine


Two reliable info sources for arginine - I see that in humans it's a conditionally essential amino acid, it's essential in the canine...amino acid supplements have many intriguing applications, I personally use L-glutamine with dogs to repair the intestinal damage done by longterm use of grain based foods and in humans, to help people with leaky gut (from too much gluten) or candida issues..it's amazing stuff.

BUt we're all wise to thoroughly research any supplement we take before making a decision - natural dsoes NOT alwasy mean safe (or even better) and there are always specific interactions that need to be taken into consideration too.

fera