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Nuhad418
12-01-2006, 08:03 AM
For your entertainment and discussion. What role do you see metaphor playing in your personal practice or philosophy? I have been doing a great deal of research into metaphor of late and I thought I would start this discussion. The following paper outlines the experience of Philemon (Jung) and Aiwass (Crowley) from a metaphorical perspective. It was written for non-Thelemites and non-esotericists so some of it is old news.
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Aiwass and Philemon:
An Analytical Psychological Look at Two Figures of "Superior Insight".


Paper presented at the First IAJS conference "Pasyche and Imagination", Greenwich, UK, July 2006.

Carl Jung’s understanding of the psyche grants validity and meaning to the potentially nebulous reality of symbol and metaphor. According to Jung “[t]he images of the collective unconscious place a great responsibility upon a man. Failure to understand them, or a shirking of ethical responsibility, deprives him of his wholeness and imposes a painful fragmentariness on his life.” (Jung 1989: 193) This paper compares two experiences of what Jung called figures of superior insight. The first figure is from Jung’s own experience of Philemon. Aiwass, the second figure, was experienced by Western Esotericist Aleister Crowley. Given the depth and breadth of both thought and publications attributed to Jung and Crowley, only the most cursory introduction will be presented as to how the figures first appeared to them and the contribution such contact made to each individual. While this may indeed be a cursory review, given the magnitude of impact these figures of superior insight can have on an individual’s life I think it necessary and valuable to learn all we can about these inspirational and potentially disruptive portions of the human psyche.

Jung led a fascinating life and arguably the most fascinating period of time, at least for our present concern, fell between 1913 and 1916; a period of time that was marked by Jung’s traumatic separation with Freud. It was at this time that Jung began to delve deeply into his own psyche. Plagued by vivid dreams and fantasies, Jung engaged in a practice that would come to be known as active imagination.

The actual genesis of Philemon is to be found in an earlier series of dreams and fantasies. The specific fantasy in question begins with a large subterranean crater where Jung felt as though he “was in the land of the dead.” (Jung 1989: 180) Jung saw two figures at the base of the crater, deep beneath the earth; one figure was a white bearded old man and the other was a beautiful young blind girl. To Jung’s astonishment, the old man identified himself as Elijah while the girl introduced herself as Salome. He also reports that the couple had a rather affectionate black serpent with them. Jung was weary of Salome but found Elijah agreeable as he “seemed to be the most reasonable of the three and to have a clear intelligence”. (Jung 1989: 181) Closely following this fantasy, another fantasy figure evolved from Elijah. This figure was the “Egypto-Hellenistic” “Gnostic” “pagan” Philemon. (Jung 1989: 182) In the fantasy, Philemon appears as an old man with the horns of a bull and the wings of a kingfisher; in his hand he held four keys. (Jung 1989: 181)

Philemon would come to prove to Jung that there were portions of the psyche that operated in an autonomous manner. Jung held conversations with Philemon and discovered that “[p]sychologically, Philemon represented superior insight.”[1] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newthread.php?do=postthread&f=59#_ftn1) (Jung 1989: 183) In essence, Philemon was a link between Jung as conscious individual and the realm of the unconscious. Philemon was neither wholly conscious, that is to say under the sway of the ego, nor was he fully unconscious. Philemon, and in extension Jung, lived in a state of neither/nor while in contact with one another.

In Robert Romanyshyn’s succinct essay, “Alchemy and the Subtle Body of Metaphor”, Jung’s relationship with Philemon is analysed in a way that grants the figure a unique and substantial reality. Philemon’s reality was not limited solely to Jung’s psyche nor was it entirely independent from it. Romanyshyn brings to the fore several important questions regarding the nature of Philemon:
What shall we call this subtle presence of Philemon who is neither a factual object in this world . . . nor a subjective idea in Jung’s mind which he projects onto the world? What is the nature of the subtle body of Philemon who is neither thing nor a thought? Philemon haunts the garden of Jung. He plays on the border of the real and the ideal, hovering like some great being of light, a vibration which at one moment seems substantive like a particle and at another moment without substance like a wave. Philemon is an imaginal being . . . Philemon, I would claim, is the subtle body of metaphor. (Romanyshyn 2000: 32)


Romanyshyn suggests we are to view Philemon as a subtle body that is neither real in the sense of possessing a quantifiable tangibility nor wholly subjective. Jung emphasises the fact that rather than over intellectualise what Philemon and the whole fantasy meant, it was better “...to let the figures be what they were for me at the time—namely events and experiences.” (Jung 1989: 182) For Jung the fantasy involving Philemon was separate from himself:

Philemon represented a force which was not myself. In my fantasies I held conversations with him, and he said things which I had not consciously thought. For I observed clearly that it was he who spoke, not I. (Jung 1989: 183)


As mentioned earlier, Jung also states that psychologically Philemon represented superior insight. (Jung 1989: 183) The insights possessed by Philemon were significant enough to put Jung in a position of concern for the possible devaluing of his ego when Philemon would “appear” yet ultimately Jung acknowledged that Philemon acted as a guru and guide of some importance. (Jung 1989: 183-184)

Romanyshyn presents the following description of the relationship between mind and soul within the context of the neither/nor logic of metaphor:

The neither/nor logic of metaphor, the logic of the third between matter and mind, the realm of the soul, requires that one must give up the notion of being able to attribute with final certainty that the epiphany of meaning belongs either on the side of consciousness as experience, or on the side of the world as an event. The either/or logic of the mind is undone in the neither/nor logic of soul. (Romanyshyn 2000: 35)

Because Jung was open to the realm of metaphor, Philemon presented himself in a beneficial and, at times, disorienting manner. For Jung the relationship with Philemon was a necessary though ultimately transient one.

The impact of the experience of Philemon and the preceding fantasies was important to Jung’s theoretical developments. While Elijah and Salome could be seen as representing the loss of Freud and Sabina Spienrein (Rowland 2002: 9) Jung remained focused on the autonomous nature of the figures. Salome represented an anima figure to Jung while Elijah was a wise old prophet. According to Verena Kast “today we would call Philemon an animus figure, a representation of the archetype of the wise old man. Even when Jung is talking only about the anima figure and the wise old prophet, his fantasy can be seen as a personification of the couple, animus and anima, being constellated in his psyche.” (Kast 2006: 114) From a larger perspective, Jung’s volitional dive into the tenuous regions of the unconscious confirmed for Jung the value of both the unconscious contents of the psyche and the necessary role of the ego in making sense of the fantasies and figures that populate the unconscious. The experiences of Aleister Crowley, whom I would claim to be another investigator of the metaphorical realm, were both similar and divergent from Jung’s.

Since his birth in 1875, there has been as much energy invested in attempts to warn the world of Aleister Crowley’s inherent perverted and satanic nature as there has been in proselytizing his role as the Prophet of the New Aeon of the Crowned and Conquering Child. Crowley’s most balanced biographer, Richard Kaczynski, concisely summarises Crowley in his paper Taboo and Transformation in the Works of Aleister Crowley with the following statement: “Spiritual polymorph, sexual omnivore, psychedelic pioneer, and unapologetic social misfit, Aleister Crowley cut a scandalous figure in his Edwardian heyday.” (Kaczynski 2000: 171)

The typical litany of accomplishments attributed to Crowley usually includes mountaineer, explorer, accomplished chess player, author, occultist, and perhaps most essentially, a poet and mystic. Our present interest in Crowley lies with his poetic and mystic inclinations brought together in his experiences with a figure known as Aiwass.

As Jung’s experience with Philemon was preceded by personal psychological stress, we find Crowley’s experience with Aiwass preceded by a growing sense of chaos in his life. In 1902 Crowley was in India training intensely in various branches of Yoga. In April of that same year he commenced a climb on K2 and collaborated with Rodin on a collection of poems based on Rodin’s art. In 1903 Crowley purchased an estate along Lock Ness in order to undertake an intense six month ritual known as the Abramelin Operation and, apropos to Aiwass, Crowley impulsively married Rose Kelly, sister of artist Gerald Kelly (1879-1972), so as to liberate her from an impending and unwanted marriage. This period of Crowley’s life was also punctuated by various and ongoing spiritual crises that would follow him along his travels.

In 1904 Crowley and Rose were in Cairo as part of a rather gruelling honeymoon trip—a portion of which Rose was actually present for. After a series of synchronistic occurrences Rose, apparently in a trance state, instructed Crowley to communicate with the messenger of Ra-Hoor-Khuit, a form of the Egyptian god Horus. He was instructed to enter his temple for one hour between noon and 1:00 p.m. for three consecutive days. Crowley sat at his desk and waited for something to occur. At 12:00 p.m., April 8th, 1904 the first words of The Book of the Law, a work that would become the central holy book of Thelema, Crowley’s philosophical religion, were uttered by Ra-Hoor-Khuit, through Aiwass to Crowley.

Crowley describes the voice of Aiwass as being “of a deep timber, musical and expressive, its tones solemn, voluptuous, tender, fierce or aught else as suited to the moods of the message.” (Booth 2000: 184) Aiwass spoke English that was “free of either native or foreign accent, perfectly pure of local or caste mannerisms…I had the strong impression that the speaker was actually in the corner…” (Kaczynski 2002: 102) Crowley consistently denied that Aiwass was a part of his subconscious (Crowley favoured Freud’s theories), or that he was other than an independent and autonomous figure. In a commentary on Chapter Two verse nine of The Book of the Law that purports that all existence is pure joy (Crowley 2004: 39) Crowley states: “In any event, it is surely a most overwhelming proof that Aiwaz is not myself, but my master, that He could force me to write verse 9, at a time when I was both intellectually and spiritually disgusted with, and despairing of, the Universe, as well as physically alarmed about my health.” (Crowley 1996: 97) For Crowley, Aiwass was and would remain an autonomous figure.

Philemon not only helped to heal Jung, or rather helped Jung heal himself, he also was a source of inspiration and insight. This dual role of healer and muse is also evident in Crowley’s relationship with Aiwass. Aside from being a stabalising factor in Crowley’s life, Aiwass was also the direct source of The Book of the Law and the inspiration for the entire collection of The Holy Books of Thelema. (Crowley 1983) The books range in length but each was written at a feverish pace while in a samadhi like state and reflect Crowley’s own spiritual initiations and, from a analytical psychological perspective, contact with archetypal images. Aiwass was for Crowley his Higher Genius or, to use the term Crowley preferred, his Holy Guardian Angel. This figure symbolises a personal link with the Divine or in non-theistic terms the totality of reality. The relationship between Crowley and Aiwass is reflected in Liber 65 unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately depending on your perspective, I do not have the time to recite the entire Liber but I would be remiss were I not to offer a sample of Crowley’s relationship with Aiwass. Here the ecstasy of contact with Adonai, a term used by Crowley to represent his Holy Guardian Angel, is metaphorically represented by the eating of a grape:

And the grape fell ripe and rich into his mouth. Stained is the purple of thy mouth, O brilliant one, with the white glory of the lips of Adonai. The foam of the grape is like the storm upon the sea; the ships tremble and shudder; the shipmaster is afraid. That is thy drunkenness, O holy one, and the winds whirl away the soul of the scribe into the happy haven. O Lord God! let the haven be cast down by the fury of the storm! Let the foam of the grape tincture my soul with Thy light! Bacchus grew old, and was Silenus; Pan was ever Pan for ever and ever more throughout the aeons. (Crowley 1996a: 96-97)


Even in old age Aiwass remained a source of inspiration and joy. In 1946 Eliza Butler interviewed Crowley for her book Myth of the Magus. Butler asked Crowley if he had ever had blinding visions of beauty, glory and truth. At that point Crowley picked up his copy of The Book of the Law, the book dictated to Crowley by Aiwass, and read a passage. When Butler looked up from her note pad she saw Crowley crying; he whispered to her ‘It was a revelation of love.’ (Kaczynski 2002: 442-443)

For Jung, the experience of Philemon marked a particular moment in his life and as a scientifically minded empiricist he would have been in an awkward position if he were to continue congressing with Philemon in his professional life. Crowley, equally at home within the parameters of the Western Esoteric Tradition and the realms of metaphor, had no need to divest himself of the company of Aiwass. Crowley, the epitome of a personality that tended toward extroverted extremes, founded a religion around his experience of a figure of superior insight. The language utilised throughout texts like The Book of the Law are at times bombastic and inflated; the same type of language is found in Jung’s Seven Sermons to the Dead as well as when various archetypes are constellated. In the case of the former it was Aiwass who presented the text to Crowley while in the latter it was Jung who delivered the message, in the style of language that Philemon may have used, to the legions of dead that plagued him.

I will not speculate as to what motivated Jung to view The Seven Sermons to be a sin of his youth and why Crowley, for whom “the word of Sin is Restriction” (Crowley 2004: 31) founded a philosophical religion around his text. Obviously contact with figures of superior insight has a potentially chaotic impact on the ego-complex. I could simply say that Crowley was caught up in the turbulent recesses of the unconscious and that his subsequent problems in life stemmed from his inability to differentiate himself from his unconscious influences whereas Jung, as Bair states, “left the inner world of Philemon and went on to other, more active involvement in the outer world when he realized he could never show the world the ‘raw material’ of the Seven Sermons: ‘That would be like prophesying and that goes against my grain.’ (Bair 2003: 295) While prophesying may have gone against Jung’s grain it was a major concern in Crowley’s life. Though Jung may have avoided the label of mystic and prophet he did occasionally apply his personal experiences of archetypal images to his universal theories of psychological maturation. (Rowland 2002) Crowley’s personal experiences from within the constructs of the Western Esoteric Tradition were also imposed onto the larger system of Thelema. What, then, do these personally influenced theories require of us? What are the ethics that these figures, both the imaginal and objective, impose?

Jung labelled the process of personal development and psychological maturation individuation. For Crowley, following the constructs of the Western Esoteric Tradition, the term initiation has similar implications with his term “True Will” which reflects a more specific and essential initiation. Figures such as Philemon and Aiwass can either contribute to this process of development or they can hinder the attempt.

Jung refers to individuation as being the “high ideal, an idea of the best we can do”. He relates this sense to the early Christian idea of the Kingdom of Heaven being within the individual. Jung indicates that at an elemental level of this ideal there is the notion that “right action comes from right thinking, and that there is no cure and no improving of the world that does not begin with the individual himself. To put the matter drastically: the man who is pauper of parasite will never solve the social question.” (Jung 1953/1966: 226) There is a dual notion to individuation. While individuation does focus on the individual and their unique nature there is also a societal requirement. Christopher Hauke summarises this conflict between the individual and society in his Jung and the Postmodern. Hauke states that “individuation is about the dual struggle of the subjective with, on the one hand, the ‘inner world’ of the unconscious in all its infantile, personal and collective aspects, and, on the other hand, the struggle with the ‘outer world’ of collective society” (Hauke 2000: 169) Edward Edinger indicates that “[a]ny step in individuation is experienced as a crime against the collective, because it challenges the individual’s identification with some representative of the collective, whether it be family, party, church, or nation.” (Edinger 1986: 26) There are risks to individuation such as inflation, rigid individualism, social despondency, not to mention being swept away by the alluring metaphorical worlds of the unconscious. There are similar risks and similar boons to Crowley’s understanding of initiation and True Will.

[I]The Book of the Law reveals Crowley’s interpretation of the Western Esoteric Tradition in much the same way as The Seven Sermons reflects some of Jung’s most important contributions to psychology. Crowley, or more accurately Aiwass reveals that “Everyman and every woman is a star.” (Crowley 2004: 25), that “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.” (Crowley 2004: 31) and that “Love is the law, love under will.” (Crowley 2004: 34) The implications of these central tenets of Thelema are beyond the scope of this short paper. Suffice it to say that the term will used in the aforementioned citations represents more than personal volition or hedonistic desire; will, in this case refers to the True Will. Crowley attempted to communicate a sense of a whole individual, free from imposed social and psychological fetters, when he used the term will. Every star or individual has a unique orbit but one must work diligently to fully understand and appreciate that orbit and though the stars are unique they are also part of the cosmos and interact with other heavenly bodies. Crowley’s use of the term “love” is a total union with reality where individual and other become blurred. While Jung may not have emphasised this mystical unity in his notion of individuation, I cannot help but to think of his use of the unus mundus in his alchemical writings. (Jung 1970) The entire process of individuation, initiation or discovery of one’s True Will implies that there is a requirement to not only work toward becoming whole on an individual level but to appreciate and accept the “other” too; it is in relation to this aspect of psychological maturation that figures of superior insight such as Philemon and Aiwass are valuable.

Philemon was “other” to Jung in that he was separate from his ego consciousness. Within that realm of neither/nor logic, Philemon’s superior insight helped to heal Jung’s mental wounds, contribute to the foundation of Jung’s later theories and revealed to Jung the autonomy of the other within. Jung also developed complementary concepts such as projection and the nature of the shadow, for example, that contributed to the necessity of dealing with the “other” without.

Aiwass revealed to Crowley the sanctity of individual freedom and the desire for social reform that encouraged and facilitated the growth of the individual. However, unlike some schools of thought within the Western Esoteric Tradition, Crowley’s vision of psycho-spiritual maturation does not shy from the dark and hidden portions of the human condition and whereas the Western Esoteric Tradition tends to focus on the development of the elite, for the good of the many, Crowley’s law of Thelema, as he so often repeated, is for all. (Crowley 2004: 30)

Obviously Jung and Crowley are exceptional individuals. How many of us will leave this conference and develop a “school” of depth psychology or found an esoteric spiritual tradition? How many of us would actually want to? Philemon and Aiwass were equally exceptional examples of figures of superior insight. Our own encounters with such neither/nor figures of metaphor, should they occur, may not be as exceptional as those experienced by Jung and Crowley but we can be reasonably sure that they would be a source of inspiration and insight. Perhaps though the way to approach these figures of superior insight is with the Esoteric notion of the four powers of the sphinx in mind: to know, to dare, to will, to be silent. I think each of these powers is advantageous when dealing with figures of superior insight but perhaps the last one might be the most constructive and with that said I shall end as I began—in silence.

[1] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newthread.php?do=postthread&f=59#_ftnref1)Deirdre Bair gives the translation as “superior knowledge”. (Bair 2003: 291) Translation nuances aside, if taken in a Gnostic light, both knowledge and insight have a similar resonance.

feranaja
12-01-2006, 10:45 AM
Brilliant as always NuHad. I didnt know Crowley and Rodin were mates! What a party that woulda been...
Now as for the material - it's fascinating to see how similar experiences can be understood so differently,and of course there's no right answer..I tend to the Jungian view, although both seem to me a bit one sided, why must these figures be either internal (archetype) or external (diety)...I see the two ideas as essentially one, although Ive been told that'sa cop-out. Metaphor for me is probably how I'd best describe the deity concept - I'm not sure that deity exists outside of the(collective) psyche - how can you be sure? but I'm not sure that it doesn't, either. For me the power of the archetype is HUGE, I dont use that term in a reductionist way at all, I understand Venus for example as both a powerful internal force that is pronounced in my indivdual psyche but exists within the human collective unconscious outside of me of course...so hence I see deity as internal...expansive and numinous but not necessarily autonomous..God is this making sense?

The entire contrasexual thing bites my ass as being somewhat sexist - sorry, I may have read too much Woodman but this is a plain example. If CG had learned more from Salome or as much as he did from Philomen, the Western World might be a different place, given the enormous impact of Jungianism on...just about everybody?

I'll read this again and I'm sure more clarity will come to me. I'm patting myself on the back for even tackling this one...:laugh:
fera

Nuhad418
12-01-2006, 10:55 AM
...Now as for the material - it's fascinating to see how similar experiences can be understood so differently,and of course there's no right answer..I tend to the Jungian view, although both seem to me a bit one sided, why must these figures be either internal (archetype) or external (diety)...I see the two ideas as essentially one, although Ive been told that'sa cop-out. Metaphor for me is probably how I'd best describe the deity concept - I'm not sure that deity exists outside of the(collective) psyche - how can you be sure? but I'm not sure that it doesn't, either. For me the power of the archetype is HUGE, I dont use that term in a reductionist way at all, I understand Venus for example as both a powerful internal force that is pronounced in my indivdual psyche but exists within the human collective unconscious outside of me of course...so hence I see deity as internal...expansive and numinous but not necessarily autonomous..God is this making sense?

Yes it makes sense. Well the short "answer" to the onesidedness would be that at the very least what we can know is our own experience of "divinity". Whether or not IT exists outside of our psyche we can't tell but it is through the psyche that we experience and perceive

The entire contrasexual thing bites my ass as being somewhat sexist - sorry, I may have read too much Woodman but this is a plain example. If CG had learned more from Salome or as much as he did from Philomen, the Western World might be a different place, given the enormous impact of Jungianism on...just about everybody?

This fact is not lost on post-Jungians and they have, save for the Classical school, redefined anima and anima to be evident in all people regardless of gender. In fact, Susan Rowland (Jung : A Feminist Revision) puts forward the thesis that Jung's notion and development of anima was influenced by his own experience of anima. His experience became the basis of the model. As for Salome taugh Jung a great deal about his own issues with the feminine. As we all know, hindesight is ever so crystal clear :-)

I'll read this again and I'm sure more clarity will come to me. I'm patting myself on the back for even tackling this one...:laugh:
fera

I'm very proud of you. My dissertation will be in the mail! :rofl:

Radiant Star
12-01-2006, 03:12 PM
Firstly, great lecture Nuhad. To answer your question:

What role do you see metaphor playing in your personal practice or philosophy?

If we are understanding the metaphor to mean describing something maybe poetically as a cover for its actuality, then since the existence of entities Aiwass or Philemon cannot be adequately explained, it can only be that they attract a metaphorical tag in the absence of empirical evidence. This will be especially true in today’s world where there is so much more known about the workings of the mind and that information is often freely available. There seems to be little room for imaginal beings outside of visualization techniques.

Crowley was fortunate in that the spiritualist movement was in full flow in his lifetime, so I would expect that he could easily have believed in Aiwass with little fuss around him; it probably wouldn’t have gone against cultural norms. The other side of that, as you seem to suggest, is that people in the public eye in this day and age would be advised not to treat these entities as more than a part of the psyche. I think my own belief is shaped by the people I interact with, who are mainly occultists. I suspect that if I was in a very clinical setting, that I would suppress ideas of an entity being more than a metaphor for a part of my mental landscape that seems to fall between two theoretical components of the conscious and subconscious.

You mention what appears to be a conflict, or at least the potential for conflict if one settles on taking on the entity as an autonomous being. I would think that this would only be the case if someone had a tendency to mental disorder in the first place, though believing in an autonomous being itself could easily include that diagnosis.

I succumb to the Crowleyian way of dealing with this issue and believe my own entity to be self-determining. Having said that, I find no difficulty in disengaging from that reality whilst I attend to the more mundane things in life, just as I would be able to turn my attention away from a conversation with a friend to focus on making the tea. Mostly, I just walk between the two worlds and it feels very easy and natural. There hasn’t been any noticeable deterioration in my mental wellbeing since my entity made himself known to me.

My acceptance of the other side and the reality of say angelic beings existing separately from my own psyche, essentially rested upon validation from others in earlier years, now, I rely upon experience but take an agnostic stance initially until I have sufficient reason to believe otherwise, though this is essentially, subjective in nature. In other words, conditioned from an early age to accept only what was cognizant with my five senses, I could simply have chosen not believe in these things myself and they would have been true metaphors, well, on the surface of my self at least. Realizing that other people, such as clergy and mediums were allowed to believe in entities as more than imaginal beings, stirred up my true inner belief that there did indeed exist ‘other’.

I got to thinking also about my seeming rationalization in the presence of disbelievers and I can honestly say that it matters little to me whether anyone and I mean any one takes me seriously or not. I put that down to the reward or gratification I get from having my entity in my life, our meaningful interactions outweigh any negative perceptions of our relationship; I suppose that could be construed as either love or the sense of my entity being as real as myself, even if not appearing to be made up of the same physical matter.

I do not see my entity as anima or animus, though it might be a reflection of the ‘inner man’ of the one that sent my ‘imaginary friend’ to me, that is a new consideration that I have not fully explored at this point.

I would say that it is not that my entity is a metaphor for a part of my mind, but rather the word dragon is a metaphorical identity for the collection of appearances, interactions and demonstrations of my entity.

Nuhad418
12-01-2006, 03:21 PM
That's a great post RS. When I am able to post a related bit on Wed. I will go over different applications of metaphor. Neitzsche's use of metaphor is quit occult in the sense of moving from one game or realm to another. But more on that later.


You mention what appears to be a conflict, or at least the potential for conflict if one settles on taking on the entity as an autonomous being. I would think that this would only be the case if someone had a tendency to mental disorder in the first place, though believing in an autonomous being itself could easily include that diagnosis.



I did give this paper at a conference were many analysts were present so I was looking at the "worst/best" case. If one has a developed ego-complex then there is not as likely that there could be psychological issues. However, I think we have all experienced a numinous moment. From a Jungina perspective this is the unconscious inposing itself on consciousness. We cannot control that we can only try to make sense of it. The making sense is the job of the ego. If the experience can fit somewhere then all is good...if the ego is not well developed and differentiated then it could be detrimental.

Personally I find metaphor a liberating factor. I'm not saying things do not exist in an objective way but I don't need to worry about it as they are, like all things, metaphorical.

Nuhad418
12-06-2006, 09:11 AM
Ok, Fera indicated that I was unclear as to what kind of discussion I was looking for. I blame that on two things: 1) It made perfect sense in my head 2) I was in a rush (I have little online time a week). The way I approach metaphor is similar to Jung. He indicated that archetypes are metaphor. So, metaphoric language can be very powerful. I did a brief study of metaphor in Aristotle, Vico and Nietzsche but I am very philosophically ignant (I know what I wrote). When taken as archetypal, metaphor can be a helpful way of approaching ritual and daily practice. Something like mutational alchemy or CM ritual begs, in my mind, for metaphorical investigation. I will post this diatribe on metaphor in Jungian and Post-Jungian thought and see if this helps focus the thread (assuming anyone else will be posting lol!)

Metaphor in Analytical and Archetypal Psychology
In his The Psychology of the Child Archetype Jung states that an “archetypal content expresses itself, first and foremost, in metaphors. If such content should speak of the sun and identify with it the lion, the king, the hoard of gold guarded by the dragon, or the power that makes for life and health of man, it is neither the one thing nor the other, but an unknown third thing that finds more or less adequate expression in all these similes, yet—to the perpetual vexation of the intellect—remains unknown and not to be fitted into a formula.”[1] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn1) For Jung, and especially in his theory of dream analysis[2] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn2), metaphor is an integral part of the human psyche. Where there are archetypes there are metaphors though, given the vast array of metaphors in our language the reverse is not necessarily true.

Jung also discusses metaphor in Jung’s Seminar on Nietzsche’s Zarathustra. In this case, Jung focuses specifically on Nietzsche’s use of metaphors of opposition, not Nietzsche’s theory of metaphor. Jung mentions Nietzsche’s “love of the metaphor of ice and snow and cold—all that contrasts with the heat. He understands that spirit is chiefly hot…and the contrast would be extremely cold.”[3] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn3) While Jung does not often refer directly to metaphor, the topic of metaphor is an important on in post-Jungian thought.

Jolande Jacobi discusses the “translation of archetypal ideals into symbolic happening”[4] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn4), in her Complex, Archetype, Symbol in the Psychology of C.G. Jung. In her work, Jacobi equates metaphor with parable but states that “Jungian psychology prefers to use the word ‘symbol’ for such sequences as well as for single, self-contained images.”[5] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn5) Geraldine Godstil’s Winter’s Ragged Hand—Creativity in the Face of Death approaches the subject of metaphor in the context of transformation and rebirth.[6] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn6) Godstil states that space and movement are two key features of metaphor thereby emphasising the etymology of the word “to carry over.”[7] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn7) Godstil continues by linking metaphor and symbol together with reference to Jung:

The mind moves between two images reflecting on the likeness and difference; it traverses boundaries, it explores identity, it carries something new. Jung writes that the ‘symbol needs man for its development. But it grows beyond him, therefore it is called “God” since it expresses a psychic situation or factor stronger that the ego.” The idea of rebirth is intrinsic to metaphor which creates something new out of the already existing and familiar.[8] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn8)

Godstil highlights the important link between mind, symbol (and therefore archetype) and metaphor. This tripartite connection is a common one in Jungian and post-Jungian thought.

Lionel Corbett warns against the premature introduction of myth and amplification within the confines of analysis. However, he also states that “it is also true that the power of story and metaphor (like art, dance or music) can bypass defensive operations and move the soul much more directly than the same idea expressed as an abstract concept or interpretation.”[9] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn9) Metaphor, in this context, is a means to move past the boundary of the ego.

In The Psychological Use of Fairy Tales,Crowther, Haynes and Newton state that a child’s favourite stories “have to be told over and over again and function as metaphors for the child’s ongoing concerns which are often fraught with anxiety…Children respond to the tales in many different ways: they may experience joy, misery or reassurance that the tale relates, often in disguised form, feelings and emotions they recognise to be true of their own experience.”[10] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn10) Metaphor, in this case, functions as the link between the actual fairytale and the subjective emotional and psychological experience of the reader or listener. In a similar manner Ian Alister analyses the metaphorical potential of team sports such as football to aid in transference within the confines of analysis.[11] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn11)

David Tacey reveals that one of the aspects of Jungian “fundamentalism” found within New Age thought is the elimination of the metaphorical “as if”:
[W]e find the popular Jungian discourse “fundamentalist” in the sense of obliterating all poetry, metaphor and symbol from Jung’s thinking and constructions. Jung prefaces most of his conjectures and conclusion with a metaphorical “as if”. In his writing he speaks “as if” a God or Goddess were erupting from the psyche and seeking recognition and respect from the human person…the fundamentalists erase the metaphorical “as if” and replace it with definite assertions about the concrete existence of psychic and archetypal contents, which are viewed as “hard wiring” or “genetic codes”.[12] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn12)

Christopher Hauke also emphasises the importance of the metaphorical in his work Jung, Modernity and Postmodern Psychology.[13] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn13) Hauke states that
In the absence of traditional forms, beliefs and ritual, it is to the inner dialogue of the psyche that the individual has to turn for meaning. In Jungian analysis and psychotherapy, modern consciousness is healed by being nourished at the breast of the symbolic life-source which is contained in the unconscious and rediscovered in dreams, fantasies and symptoms…the emphasis on the child, the infant and feeding metaphors may turn out to be informative about the crisis of the psyche in late modernity, and about the hidden significance of psychotherapy as a cultural theory and a cultural healing.[14] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn14)

Hauke sees that “feeding” and “breast” “become symbols of the modern ego needing to replenish itself not from the personal mother but from the self—psyche’s source and the nourishment for consciousness.”[15] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn15)

James Hillman speaks more directly to the matter of metaphor than does Jung; Jung being content to equate archetype with metaphor and focusing on the nature of archetypes and symbols over that of metaphor. Hillman’s understanding of metaphor is influenced by Vico and the as-if fictions of Hans Vaihinger (1852-1933).[16] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn16) Hillman views metaphor “less semantically as a figure of speech and more ontologically as mode of being, or psychologically as a style of consciousness. Metaphors are more than ways of speaking; they are ways of perceiving, feeling, and existing.”[17] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn17) As cited above, Jung analysed metaphors of opposition in Nietzsche’s writings. For Hillman it is not so much metaphors of opposition that are of interest but the paradoxical nature of metaphor and by extension consciousness. As an example of this endemic paradox Hillman gives the example of “Richard the lion”. Is Richard the lion a lion in a cage named Richard or is Richard a courageous king? Hillman states that “this well known example is too simple, for many kinds of metaphors have been distinguished and named; but it serves to illustrate the basic idea: psychological consciousness, because it sees through, because it flourishes in ambiguity, is metaphorical.”[18] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn18)

Hillman echoes Jung’s statement that archetypes are metaphorical stating that archetypes “belong to the internal self-contradiction and duplicity of mythic metaphors, so that every statement regarding the archetypes is to be taken metaphorically, prefixed with an “as if.”[19] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn19) He also indicates that “[m]ythic metaphor is the correct way of speaking about the archetypes because, like Gods, they do not stand still. Like Gods they cannot be defined except through and by their complications in each other.”[20] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn20) Also in relation to the archetypes, and in a curiously Kabbalistically toned passage with reference to constellations of light and sparks, Hillman states that “[a]rchetypes are the skeletal structures of the psyche, yet the bones are changeable constellations of light—sparks, waves, motions. They are principles of uncertainty.”[21] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn21)

Ultimately, and unlike Vaihinger and Jung, Hillman views the “as-if” attitude as unnecessary when approaching the archetypes. Hillman states that:
[m]ythic consciousness does not need an “as-if”. So long as the ideas are not fixed into singleness of meaning, we do not need to pry them loose with the tool of “as-if”. Vaihinger after all derives from Kant and in reaction to Kant’s categorical monotheistic mind. “As-if” is a necessary philosophical step for recognizing the metaphorical character of all certainties in what we see, say and believe. But if we begin in mythical consciousness we do not need the prefix. It is implied throughout, always.[22] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn22)

Related to the same line of argument, Hillman questions Jung’s assumption that archetypes are unknowable in themselves[23] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn23) by suggesting that it is not the archetype that is ultimately unknowable but our method of perception that makes it appear that way: “We have no clear distinct knowledge of them in themselves and by themselves in the Cartesian sense of certainty; but we know them indirectly, metaphorically, mythically.”[24] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn24)

Roberts Avens’ Imagination is Reality is a useful amplification of some of archetypal psychology’s use of metaphor.[25] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn25) In this work, Avens quotes literary philosopher Owen Barfield’s definition of metaphor:

Metaphor, says Barfield, involves a tension between two ostensibly incompatible meanings, reflecting a deeper tension within ourselves—“a tension between that part of ourselves which experiences the incompatibilities as a mysterious unity and that part which remains well able to appreciate their duality and their incompatibility. Without the former metaphor in nonsense language, but without the latter it is not even language.” In sum, imagination, in addition to its commonly accepted reproductive function, has the uncanny ability to see into the inner life of things and to assure us that there us more in our experience of the world than meets the eye; that, from quite a sober point of view, there is, as Wordsworth said, salvation from a “universe of death.”[26] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn26)

Avens sees Jung and Hillman as being responsible for the development of a Western nirvana through their respective work with images and imagination. Avens suggests that “a new experience of reality (a Western nirvana) has been made possible through Jung’s rehabilitation of the mythical or archetypal dimension of the psyche, leading to the realization that images, in their liberated mode, are themselves embodiments of meaning; that they mean what they are and are what they mean.”[27] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn27) Of Hillman Avens writes:

The importance of archetypal psychology is that it has chosen the path of watchful attention to the imaginal realm, giving, in Hillman’s words, “the psyche a chance to move out of the consulting room”—a chance, that is to say, to be yoked (in the Yogic sense of union) to its archaic, emotional and creative core. In moving beyond the personal and back into the unknown, archetypal ground of all life, psychology only follows the tradition of classical and archaic peoples who solved the problems of the psyche through personal relationships (abreactive encounters, humanizing) but through the reverse” “connecting them to impersonal dominants” and providing for the psyche “impersonal satisfaction.”[28] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftn28)


Jung and Hillman, Analytical Psychology and Archetypal Psychology, assign value to images and metaphor. That value is, at its most basic core, of connecting to aspects of ourselves we are not generally cognisant of while dwelling in, as Hillman indicated above, a Cartesian perspective. Metaphor is one door or one means to move outside the confines of accepted, literal, egoic perspectives.

Metaphor and the Western Esoteric Tree of Life
Avens, Hillman and Jung approach metaphor from the perspective that it is something more involved than a trope or a tool of language; it is seen as a psychic reality that has the potential to have a profound impact on the psyche and ontological perspective. While there has been centuries of debate on the nature and value of metaphor, this thesis will use the term in a selective manner. For our purposes metaphor will follow the thought of analytical and archetypal psychology while retaining the literal meaning of “to transfer” “to bare” “to carry”. The sefirot of the Tree of Life and the symbols and rituals of the Western Esoteric Tradition can be viewed as metaphors that transfer, bare and carry psychological meaning—a meaning that mirrors what Jung labelled the process of individuation or becoming a whole person.

From a metaphorical perspective, the sefirot refer to aspects of our psyche rather than being part of a literal divine being and the entities encountered from the parameters of the Western Esoteric Tradition are taken in a similar vein. By not concretising the images into literal “angels” or literal “demons” (or literal archetypes for that matter) we grant the unconscious a psychological fluidity wherein these entities are encounter such that it is “as if” they were real.


[1] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref1) Jung, The Psychology of the Child Archetype, CW 9i, par. 267.

[2] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref2) See Jung, The Psychology of Dementia Praecox, CW 3, pars. 218 & 298, General Aspects of Dream Psychology, CW 8, par. 506 and Analytical Psychology and Education, CW 17, par. 144. The latter two are specifically concerned with metaphor and sexuality.

[3] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref3) Jung, Jung’s Seminar on Nietzsche’s Zarathustra, edited and abridged by James L. Jarrett (Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1998), 282.

[4] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref4) Jolande Jacobi, Complex, Archetype, Symbol in the Psychology of C.G. Jung (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 3rd ed., 1974), 77.

[5] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref5) Jacobi, Complex, Archetype, Symbol, 77.

[6] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref6) Geraldine Godsil, Winter’s Ragged Hand—Creativity in the Face of Death, in Jungian Thought in the Modern World, Elphis Christopher and Hester McFarland Solomon eds. (London: Free Association Books, 2000), 244-263.

[7] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref7) Godsil, Winter’s Ragged Hand, 252.

[8] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref8) Godsil, Winter’s Ragged Hand, 252.

[9] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref9) Lionel Corbett, The Religious Function of the Psyche (4th ed. East Sussex: Brunner-Routledge, 2001), 92.

[10] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref10) Catherine Crowther, Jane Haynes, Kathleen Newton, The Psychological Use of Fairy Tales in Contemporary Jungian Analysis: Post-Jungian Perspectives from the Society of Analytical Psychology, Ian Alister and Christopher Hauke, ed (London: Routledge, 1998), 220.

[11] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref11) Ian Alister, Popular Culture: Keeping Ourselves Together, in Contemporary Jungian Analysis: Post-Jungian Perspectives from the Society of Analytical Psychology, Ian Alister and Christopher Hauke, eds. (London: Routledge, 1998), 231-240.

[12] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref12) Tacey, Jung and the New Age, 138.

[13] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref13) Christopher Hauke, Jung, Modernity and Postmodern Psychology in Contemporary Jungian Analysis: Post-Jungian Perspectives from the Society of Analytical Psychology, Ian Alister and Christopher Hauke, eds. (London: Routledge, 1998), 287-297.

[14] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref14) Hauke, Jung, Modernity and Postmodern Psychology, 296.

[15] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref15) , Jung, Modernity and Postmodern Psychology, 296.

[16] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref16) James Hillman, Re-Visioning Psychology, (New York: Harper Perennial, 1992), 156.

[17] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref17) Hillman, Re-Visioning, 156.

[18] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref18) Hillman, Re-Visioning, 156.

[19] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref19) Hillman, Re-Visioning, 156. Emphasis in original. Hillman cites Jung: “Every interpretation necessarily remains an ‘as-if’” Jung, Concerning the Archetypes, with Special Reference to the Anima Concept, CW 9i, par. 143, The Psychology of the Child Archetype, CW 9i, par. 265 and Flying Saucers: A Modern Myth, CW 10, par. 681.

[20] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref20) Hillman, Re-Visioning, 157.

[21] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref21) Hillman, Re-Visioning, 157.

[22] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref22) Hillman, Re-Visioning, 157.

[23] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref23) Hillman, Re-Visioning, 157.

[24] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref24) Hillman, Re-Visioning, 157.

[25] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref25) Roberts Avens, Imagination is Reality: Western Nirvana in Jung, Hillman, Barfield & Cassirer (Dallas, Texas: Spring Publications, 1980).

[26] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref26) Avens, Imagination is Reality, 23.

[27] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref27) Avens, Imagination is Reality, 40.

[28] (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=5652#_ftnref28) Avens, Imagination is Reality, 41. Emphasis is in the original.

Nuhad418
12-06-2006, 03:33 PM
On the off chance that this thread blossoms into a discussion this lexicon may be of use:

Jungian Lexicon (http://www.psychceu.com/Jung/sharplexicon.html)

Radiant Star
12-13-2006, 11:10 AM
I am going to move along in this thread using Archetype to cover all from parts of the brain to autonomous entity and make no special distinction. I will give my reflections on the various theories that have been put forward. I will make some probably obvious statements and add one or two questions along with my own thoughts as a way of exploring the previous post. I have had to cut this post down a lot, so I hope it still makes sense without me going off to talk about homing pigeons and so on.

Jung states that “metaphor is an integral part of the human psyche” If this is true then I wonder if certain archetypes are inherent as part of a genetic memory, or if our brains are wired to develop them in similar ways as we are exposed to certain images or situations. If it is the former, then it could mean that magick is remembered rather than learned, though if we are pre-disposed to develop in very similar ways neurologically, it could mean that we respond to the same input in similar ways and are therefore able to identify with another beings archetypes, as part of the general mental imaging, coding or labelling process; this seems to be true even though cultures differ since comparisons worldwide of belief systems tend to show the same kinds and trends of mythology. If the archetypes or ability to programme is already there, then understandably magickal symbols would evoke these as the mind takes in new information and links it to the existing schema - either the match would be there waiting for a connection or the seed would be there awaiting nurturance.

Is Jung saying that god is a thoughform? not sure why symbol needs development in and of itself, though if he is referring to bringing a closer connection between the practitioner and the buried archetypes, then I can go with this.

Corbett says that the power of the metaphor has the ability to “bypass defensive operations” and that would aid ritual since it would take away everyday mental background noise and allow focus. The use of ritual and its archetypes as a way of easing concerns over or dealing with demons (which could be seen to be real or imaginary) may be a subconscious desire to face ones fears, or if working with Angels, to be reassured that there ia life after death and help from the other side; though like Crowther, Haynes and Newton mention, many people like to believe that these metaphors are only that, just mental images made up of inner fears or desires. Even proof can only be a metaphor for a desire for certainty in an uncertain world, since nothing can be proven, only disproven.

The fundamentalist stance of the New Age seems risky since there could be mis-attributions which could easily lead to the belief that either all is real or none of the archetypes are real; it is doubtful that it can ever be that black and white. However, for ritual, this may provide confidence until the practitioner is able to distinguish between useful and otherwise evocations.

If Hillman sees metaphors as “ways of perceiving, feeling and existing”, does this reduce humans to a mere collection of metaphors in the eyes of others? Does it mean humans are pre-programmed? Or just the result of the input they experience? This might ultimately mean that humans and archetypes are either both just a collection of metaphors or both are just as real as each other.

It seems to be certain that our consciousness relies on metaphors as connectors. Hillman says that the archetypes, like everything else we perceive relies upon “complications” or the way I see it, difference and sameness; it is the patterns of this comparing and matching or connecting that assists the occultist in ritual since using certain symbols and getting similar effects each time allows him to recognize the archetypes and evoke or banish them.

For the ritualist, treating an archetype as an ‘as if’ entity is useful, Vaihinger suggests that if we are already in a different type of consciousness, then that is assumed, but what is a mythical consciousness? I believe he is saying that we know other entities who cannot be perceived with the five senses by way of an alternative awareness, a belief and a knowing built upon what he has not said, though Jung would have it that archetypes are “unknowable in themselves” even with this alternate awareness. My own thoughts are that since we seem to know everything because we are able to make comparisons, then it of course is possible to know entities but being able to communicate effectively as to their reality and essence is bound to be more problematic especially since humans prefer to rely on the five senses and these are often of little use in these kinds of perceptions. Though in practice, verification often comes in sharing recognisable metaphors with fellow occultists and whilst not proof in itself for all sorts of reasons, recurring images, symbols and understandings do occur and seem to be reliable indicators of archetypes.

When I read Avens among others I couldn’t help but thinking that magickians have understood the metaphors all along and that Jung and others only brought them to the general public’s attention. It makes me wonder if he has demoted them, or demystified archetypes or entities or in fact, opened up the way for more people to take a chance and explore consciousness, I suppose it is all of these.
Metaphors to me can be probabilities or even certainties in some cases, what I mean by this is that I can see a table in a catalogue, I can buy it and label it as my table; it will almost certainly be seen in the same in real life as when I first saw it in print. However in magick, metaphors or archetypes seem to me to be retrospective, we might have a vague idea of what an Archangel is, but its only after our own experience of what we believe to be one, that we assign the tag of Archangel to that image and recognize it.

It is probably likely that many of the metaphors used in magick are only really understood relative to their results due to variations in our own ability to perceive them and the fluidity of those experiences. I don’t find that makes them less real than what I can appreciate with my five senses, but that my expectations of how this type of ability to perceive works will very likely not be the same as how I expect to take input from the senses of touch, taste, sight, sound smell. Magickal sensing is not like that and that is where the strength and weakness of the metaphor lies here; many magickal experiences are only appreciated at a mental level and trying to impart a five sensory dynamic to that experience to someone who has not encountered that yet, is reliant upon comparison to things in the mundane world. Conversely, the metaphor also has strength here because anything encountered will be new and untarnished in some ways by the mores of everyday cultural existence, though even here, issues to do with self-preservation and our own moral codes may dictate to some extent our relationships with archetypes despite their initial ability to “bypass” as Corbett says.

Nuhad418
12-13-2006, 02:37 PM
This is great!! I will have to reply in parts though...PART ONE


Jung states that “metaphor is an integral part of the human psyche” If this is true then I wonder if certain archetypes are inherent as part of a genetic memory, or if our brains are wired to develop them in similar ways as we are exposed to certain images or situations. If it is the former, then it could mean that magick is remembered rather than learned, though if we are pre-disposed to develop in very similar ways neurologically, it could mean that we respond to the same input in similar ways and are therefore able to identify with another beings archetypes, as part of the general mental imaging, coding or labelling process; this seems to be true even though cultures differ since comparisons worldwide of belief systems tend to show the same kinds and trends of mythology. If the archetypes or ability to programme is already there, then understandably magickal symbols would evoke these as the mind takes in new information and links it to the existing schema - either the match would be there waiting for a connection or the seed would be there awaiting nurturance.

Archetypes are usually defined as patterns of experience. Some of the more obvious would be birth, death, mother, etc. so in some ways we are hardwired for the experience of them. Though, I think Jung would not get too deep in the materialist or bio-chemical definition of psyche. Brain and psyche (literally soul) are considered different. Magick, in my opinion (as the Yoga of the West as Fortune describes it) is very much related to individuation so if the unconscious does really want to be made conscious (individuation being the attempt to bringing unconscious aspects into consciousness) then Magick is the process of archetypal or metaphorical exploration.

Is Jung saying that god is a thoughform? not sure why symbol needs development in and of itself, though if he is referring to bringing a closer connection between the practitioner and the buried archetypes, then I can go with this.

For Jung there is no difference between the experience of the self (Self) and the experience of what most people would call God. Archetypal (metaphorical) energy has the ability to possess and displace the ego-complex. It can make us do and think things we don't believe we are capable of (either ecstatically or horribly). I'm not sure what you mean by a symbol needing development though...but Jung is very much indicating that we need to allow the ego-complex to connect with, rather than repress unconscious material. Though he did warn that it was a bad idea to go too deeply; of course he went deep so I suspect that stament is for the "average" person who is not nuts like us. :eek:

{quote]Corbett says that the power of the metaphor has the ability to “bypass defensive operations” and that would aid ritual since it would take away everyday mental background noise and allow focus. The use of ritual and its archetypes as a way of easing concerns over or dealing with demons (which could be seen to be real or imaginary) may be a subconscious desire to face ones fears, or if working with Angels, to be reassured that there ia life after death and help from the other side; though like Crowther, Haynes and Newton mention, many people like to believe that these metaphors are only that, just mental images made up of inner fears or desires. Even proof can only be a metaphor for a desire for certainty in an uncertain world, since nothing can be proven, only disproven.[/quote]

Interesting. The metaphorical or archetypal would be expereinced as real as any demonic or angelic possession of repressed long enough. As for metaphors being mental images, this is one interpretation of the term and a more common one. As a trope or tool of language metaphor lacks the libido to cause change in consciousness; however, if taken as Nietzsche defines it, all existence is metaphorical, our whole lives are metaphor.


The fundamentalist stance of the New Age seems risky since there could be mis-attributions which could easily lead to the belief that either all is real or none of the archetypes are real; it is doubtful that it can ever be that black and white. However, for ritual, this may provide confidence until the practitioner is able to distinguish between useful and otherwise evocations.


I agree with you but this assumes, unless I misread and that is VERY possible as I am a bit dense, that there is a real form of evocation that is not archetypal (metaphroical). Ultimatley any part of the unconscious that is brought to consciousness will be useful even if first experienced as painful, threatening or down right dangerous. Even if the rituals begin as metaphorical (and not just metaphorical) they will contain potential psychological power.


If Hillman sees metaphors as “ways of perceiving, feeling and existing”, does this reduce humans to a mere collection of metaphors in the eyes of others? Does it mean humans are pre-programmed? Or just the result of the input they experience? This might ultimately mean that humans and archetypes are either both just a collection of metaphors or both are just as real as each other.


I'll be honest with you, Hillman is a bit of a mystery to me. Archetypal psychologists are fascinating people. Essentially Hillman sees us as being dreamed by our dreams. We are a mass of archetypes being lived through our bodies. Er...whatever.

Nuhad418
12-15-2006, 07:43 AM
I'm feeling guilt for not replying more fully to your great post so I will do some more now...


It seems to be certain that our consciousness relies on metaphors as connectors. Hillman says that the archetypes, like everything else we perceive relies upon “complications” or the way I see it, difference and sameness; it is the patterns of this comparing and matching or connecting that assists the occultist in ritual since using certain symbols and getting similar effects each time allows him to recognize the archetypes and evoke or banish them.

The difference and sameness is interesting as metaphor indicates, in the thought of Aristotle, a split between strange and ordinary: "For Aristotle, words are distinguished between the ordinary (kurion) and the foreign or strange (glôtta). “Metaphor” Davis informs us “intentionally combines the two by using the ordinary in a strange or exotic way. Meta-phor is a trans-fer or displacement or the ordinary.” " I find that aspect of metaphor, especially for those who are interested in so called "left" hand paths. What, for them is strange and foreign?

For the ritualist, treating an archetype as an ‘as if’ entity is useful, Vaihinger suggests that if we are already in a different type of consciousness, then that is assumed, but what is a mythical consciousness? I believe he is saying that we know other entities who cannot be perceived with the five senses by way of an alternative awareness, a belief and a knowing built upon what he has not said, though Jung would have it that archetypes are “unknowable in themselves” even with this alternate awareness. My own thoughts are that since we seem to know everything because we are able to make comparisons, then it of course is possible to know entities but being able to communicate effectively as to their reality and essence is bound to be more problematic especially since humans prefer to rely on the five senses and these are often of little use in these kinds of perceptions. Though in practice, verification often comes in sharing recognisable metaphors with fellow occultists and whilst not proof in itself for all sorts of reasons, recurring images, symbols and understandings do occur and seem to be reliable indicators of archetypes.

I like this very much and it hits to the root of the problem. IF we assume the gods are ontological beings then it is a matter of communicating with them as we would each other, though in a unique and difficult language. IF they are seen as archetypal or metaphorical then it seems to me it is up to us to listen and observe what we are being shown. I'm not sure what, if anything, metpahor gains from our own blithering. From Jung's perspective the archetypes, through archetypal images, want to be made conscious. In that respect I see ritual and occult study as an effective means of doing that. Of course I do talk to the gods and I have no idea if they are listening so its up to me to pay attention and be attentive.


When I read Avens among others I couldn’t help but thinking that magickians have understood the metaphors all along and that Jung and others only brought them to the general public’s attention. It makes me wonder if he has demoted them, or demystified archetypes or entities or in fact, opened up the way for more people to take a chance and explore consciousness, I suppose it is all of these.


Well I think its a matter of perspective. Early occultists MAY have understood metaphor but they would not have had the notion of subjectivity (ego-consciousness) developed in the same way. Jung acknowledges that the early alchemists, gnostics, and mystics where dealing with archetypal energies (for want of a better weasel word) but they would have projected those processes onto a stone, the world, or G.O.D. If anything Jung helped rekindle interest in these subjects though there are many (including me when I have my 100% esotericist hat on) that find he skewed a great many things. All in all what he did was offer and alternative perspective and that is NEVER bad! :laugh:


Metaphors to me can be probabilities or even certainties in some cases, what I mean by this is that I can see a table in a catalogue, I can buy it and label it as my table; it will almost certainly be seen in the same in real life as when I first saw it in print. However in magick, metaphors or archetypes seem to me to be retrospective, we might have a vague idea of what an Archangel is, but its only after our own experience of what we believe to be one, that we assign the tag of Archangel to that image and recognize it.


This, again, depends on how metaphor is defined. The former use in your quote is metaphor as trope while the latter, if I read this correctly, is metaphor=symbol/archetype. Your one paragraph summarises the whole issues as I see it.

It is probably likely that many of the metaphors used in magick are only really understood relative to their results due to variations in our own ability to perceive them and the fluidity of those experiences. I don’t find that makes them less real than what I can appreciate with my five senses, but that my expectations of how this type of ability to perceive works will very likely not be the same as how I expect to take input from the senses of touch, taste, sight, sound smell. Magickal sensing is not like that and that is where the strength and weakness of the metaphor lies here; many magickal experiences are only appreciated at a mental level and trying to impart a five sensory dynamic to that experience to someone who has not encountered that yet, is reliant upon comparison to things in the mundane world. Conversely, the metaphor also has strength here because anything encountered will be new and untarnished in some ways by the mores of everyday cultural existence, though even here, issues to do with self-preservation and our own moral codes may dictate to some extent our relationships with archetypes despite their initial ability to “bypass” as Corbett says.

These are all fantastic point RS...and even if no one else post here we can rest assured that we at least tried to explore a very potent area of occult and mystical theory...at the very least we entertained ourselves for a few weeks :rofl:

Radiant Star
12-15-2006, 07:58 AM
even if no one else post here we can rest assured that we at least tried to explore a very potent area of occult and mystical theory...at the very least we entertained ourselves for a few weeks :rofl:

I have enjoyed it immensely - if only I understood the Abrahadabra and its aspects this well ;)

fr.novumorganum
12-19-2006, 02:48 PM
Some excellent posts in this thread, and I’m sorry for not joining in sooner.

Nuhad, it sounds as if depth psychology has its own definition of metaphor, or am I mis-reading this out of your lecture/posts. If it does, or if you are developing a theory of it yourself, you will probably find that the ideas of metaphor in literary theory and philosophy has a slightly different bent. This could provide a fruitful inter-disciplinary area of inquiry.

Personally, I’d refrain from the theoretical definitions of metaphor at first, and instead focus on its delineation by poets. I think Ginsberg, Shelly, and Blake would be excellent sources. Ginsberg and Blake both experienced visions and contacts (and not all Ginsberg’s were drug induced) and these visions helped define their poetic tools. Blake and Shelly both saw metaphor as the means of creating new language, and thus new experience, and thus a function of the divine (hence validating claims that poets are like gods….) Shelly’s essays on language would help a good deal.

Are you familiar with Walter Benjamin? He was a 1930-1940’s philosopher who was equally influenced by Marx and the Occult (for example some of Benjamin’s essays are systemized calls to ‘the angel of history’ as he termed it. Some readers took this angel as a metaphoric device, but for those with another set of glasses…). Benjamin practiced kabbalah, and he openly acknowledged that philosophy has roots in mysticism, something many philosophers deny. Again, Benjamin focuses on Language as creative power (he calls it Adamic).

I guess overall, I’m arguing that one needs to include a conception of language in this discussion. Hope my ramblings make sense…

Nuhad418
12-20-2006, 11:21 AM
Some excellent posts in this thread, and I’m sorry for not joining in sooner.

Nuhad, it sounds as if depth psychology has its own definition of metaphor, or am I mis-reading this out of your lecture/posts. If it does, or if you are developing a theory of it yourself, you will probably find that the ideas of metaphor in literary theory and philosophy has a slightly different bent. This could provide a fruitful inter-disciplinary area of inquiry.

Personally, I’d refrain from the theoretical definitions of metaphor at first, and instead focus on its delineation by poets. I think Ginsberg, Shelly, and Blake would be excellent sources. Ginsberg and Blake both experienced visions and contacts (and not all Ginsberg’s were drug induced) and these visions helped define their poetic tools. Blake and Shelly both saw metaphor as the means of creating new language, and thus new experience, and thus a function of the divine (hence validating claims that poets are like gods….) Shelly’s essays on language would help a good deal.

Are you familiar with Walter Benjamin? He was a 1930-1940’s philosopher who was equally influenced by Marx and the Occult (for example some of Benjamin’s essays are systemized calls to ‘the angel of history’ as he termed it. Some readers took this angel as a metaphoric device, but for those with another set of glasses…). Benjamin practiced kabbalah, and he openly acknowledged that philosophy has roots in mysticism, something many philosophers deny. Again, Benjamin focuses on Language as creative power (he calls it Adamic).

I guess overall, I’m arguing that one needs to include a conception of language in this discussion. Hope my ramblings make sense…

Greetings my friend!

Analytical Psychology does indeed have its own definition of metaphor. I realised after I posted my diatribe it might have been useful indicate that more fully and to give more of a lead in. I did in fact do this in my head but it turns out that I cannot project my thoughts onto the computer screen :(

Thank you for those sources, I have just begun looking at other applications of metaphor and this will be of great use!